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Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby JTull » 17 Jan 2017 22:22

Lilo wrote:^
Actually in the video - the general class is also shown to have LCD displays , the only difference b/w general class & the executive class as decided by the overseeing genius Babu is the reclining chair features (executive class has legsupport & extra head support) :roll:.
.............................................................................................................................................................


Executive class has 2x2 layout as opposed to 2x3 in General class.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 17 Jan 2017 22:26

I don't see what's the issue with lcd screens here. It's a feature that has been available in most shatabdis, namely lucknow, kanpur and kalka, since a year or so.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby disha » 18 Jan 2017 05:14

^^ Issue is lot of the posters have not travelled by shatabdi or have not seen LCD screen behind chairs in IR locos at all. It is a shock for them.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2017 08:06

from what I recall even the general class shatabdi has reclining seats. and legroom & hiproom is great even in general class vs economy class seat on aircraft. exec class seats are as large as business class in aircraft.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby jayasimha » 18 Jan 2017 17:04

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=157470

Make in India Railways Sector - Achievement Report

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Rishi Verma » 18 Jan 2017 18:08

ISI link Emerges in Kanpur Train Derailment

Patna: The role of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence or ISI is being suspected in the train accident in Kanpur in November after the arrest in Bihar of three men yesterday. 150 people were killed when 14 coaches of the Indore-Patna Express rolled off the tracks around 100 km from Kanpur on November 20. At the time, a fault in the tracks was thought to be the cause of the accident. The three arrested yesterday have allegedly told the police that they were working for the Pakistani intelligence agency to target Indian railways.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A_Gupta » 20 Jan 2017 08:29

http://www.firstpost.com/business/sures ... 07156.html

Generally negative on Indian Railways.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A_Gupta » 20 Jan 2017 08:33

http://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/ ... nFh7L.html

A Spain-made Talgo train did Delhi-Mumbai in 11 hours and 48 minutes.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Yagnasri » 20 Jan 2017 13:14

I have recently travelled in one Jan Sathabdi train. Seats are quite small to accommodate 3 passengers per one side. It is quite difficult for people to sit for hours in such a confined space. IR need to think more about passengers comfort at least now and charge for it.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Prasad » 20 Jan 2017 14:33

A_Gupta wrote:http://www.firstpost.com/business/suresh-prabhus-tweets-wont-save-indian-railways-with-rock-bottom-op-ratio-no-finance-head-its-never-been-this-bad-3207156.html

Generally negative on Indian Railways.

That entire article is a sources based piece. Unbelievable that something like this gets past editors.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Lilo » 20 Jan 2017 14:34

Wrt the dismal state of railway finances - I always wonder why the prime land owned by the railways is not leased out agressively to generate revenue?
Every major railway station can have its own mini mall - like how some metro stations in Delhi are already having.
Too much is lying empty afaik - or am I missing something here?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 20 Jan 2017 17:30

^^ It's been tried multiple times, I am not sure why they didn't take off. Considering the prime location of most city stations, this should've been easy.

My guess is, a BOT like scheme will be difficult due to a lack of clear guidelines on property ownership and the impossibility of shutting the station down while being re-developed. Doing it on the fly while the station stays operational will push up costs (construct only at night, f.e.), and is subject to active cooperation from the Railways. The slower the pace of construction, the greater the costs and potential for losses. Uncertainty on these aspects probably keep the private players away - they can simply buy land elsewhere and build malls/complexes much more quickly. So it boils down to the fact that the Railways will have to pay someone to re-develop under their supervision. Given the cash constraints, it becomes all the more difficult.

jm2p, take it FWIW.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 20 Jan 2017 19:12

Don't worry. It is about to happen. Google 'railway station redevelopment in india' or watch on youtube. They have already tendered out Habibganj station and other are in the process e.g. the Gandhinagar station will have a five start hotel on top. The problem is railways has much more land than this and most of it is encroached by slums. So they will need a redevelopment plan for those. Otherwise passengers will encounter slums after leaving a swanky station. But that has not happened yet.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 21 Jan 2017 10:23

Lilo wrote:Wrt the dismal state of railway finances - I always wonder why the prime land owned by the railways is not leased out agressively to generate revenue?
Every major railway station can have its own mini mall - like how some metro stations in Delhi are already having.
Too much is lying empty afaik - or am I missing something here?


there be dragons.

that creep derek woe brien made a lot of money by providing " consultancy " when TMC was holding the ministry and every party has got tons of such "consultants" who will always be fortuitously placed sons, daughters, sons in law and what not.

If not directly fronting, they will be lurking in the shadows.

leasing railway land to private players is the sure road to future inquiries and scandals. my two paise onlee.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Nick_S » 21 Jan 2017 16:52

A_Gupta wrote:http://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/railways-planning-to-operate-talgo-trains-on-lease/story-sTM050ZyDJgPeTTa8nFh7L.html

A Spain-made Talgo train did Delhi-Mumbai in 11 hours and 48 minutes.


How long do the IR high speed trains normally take?

Talgo trains have articulated bogies, light-weight shells with all aluminium coaches and a design that allows natural tilting of coaches, enabling it to negotiate curves at high speed.
Talgo coaches weigh 17 tonnes against the 51 tonnes of conventional Indian coaches. :shock:


Just the weight reduction alone would allow substantial electricity savings. I hope IR can look into lowering the weight of their new gen coaches.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby hanumadu » 21 Jan 2017 17:22

Talgo trains have articulated bogies, light-weight shells with all aluminium coaches and a design that allows natural tilting of coaches, enabling it to negotiate curves at high speed.
Talgo coaches weigh 17 tonnes against the 51 tonnes of conventional Indian coaches. :shock:


Inspite of weighing so much, how come the IR coaches look all dented. They look so ugly, its an assault on the senses. The colour scheme is not pretty either. May be they should use some of that weight to make sturdy and aesthetic exterior.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 21 Jan 2017 18:03

It is a machining problem. They are probably not using latest tech. LHB rakes are lighter and smoother than the ICF dabbas which are being phased out (will stop production from 2017).


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby darshan » 22 Jan 2017 08:00

At this point there is no choice but to start looking at these as terrorism related. When will MSM start discussing this possibility openly with the word islam?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 22 Jan 2017 10:20

the bogies and underlying chassis of ICF coaches look to be very heavy duty ... perhaps the quality of track not being tfta also exerts greater shock and vibration vs the french TGV std tracks or some of the improved tracks like delhi-mumbai and delhi-agra ?

part of technical progress is shaving off weight and using lighter materials were we can.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Austin » 23 Jan 2017 10:08

With Russia’s help, India to increase train speed to 200 kmph

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/W ... epage=true

Currently, the fastest train in the country is Gatimaan Express with a top speed of 160 km per hour

The Russian Railways is helping India’s national transporter increase the speed of its passenger trains up to 200 km per hour.

The Russian Railways is at present collaborating with the Indian Railways on a 575-km stretch between Nagpur and Secunderabad and submitted a preliminary report last week.

To reach the desired speed limit, Russian Railways has proposed several technical and technological solutions, including reconstruction of railway alignment as well as treating the earth bed where there are speed restrictions.

New passenger cars

Since Indian Railways doesn’t have coaches that can move with a speed of 200 km per hour, a new type of passenger cars needs to be approved as well.

It has, however, expressed concern over “a number of large bridges with speed limits” on this particular stretch and has recommended a detailed survey of all these structures on the basis of which measures for reconstruction/repair will be taken up.

It has also been pointed out that railroad switches, which enable trains to shift from one track to another, at stations on this stretch are not suitable for a speed of 200 km per hour and a different type of switch has been recommended.

Digital tech network

A digital technological communication network for the entire section, instead of the existing radio communication, was also proposed.

A high-speed rail network will also require safety measures for pedestrians and motor vehicles at rail crossings.

Keeping this in mind, overpasses, anti-collision and anti-ram barriers as well as automatic alarm systems have been suggested.

A protective fencing along the length of the rail track was mooted in order to prevent accidents with people and animals on the track.

The Russian Railways also suggested noise shields for tracks near residential areas.

A protocol for this project was signed between the railway ministries of the two countries in October last year.

50:50 cost sharing


The high-speed project will be jointly financed and the cost will be split equally between the two countries.

Currently, the fastest train in India is Gatimaan Express with top speed of 160 km per hour.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 23 Jan 2017 19:56

these are all motherhood and apple pie fixes which anyone can say are needed.

key is paisa kaha se ? Japan gives soft loans .... so far no others have stepped forward

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Zynda » 23 Jan 2017 20:52

It seems like each stretch is being "studied" by a different country. Talgo Trains with Spain, Mysore-BLR-Chennai was done with China (I read now another consultation with Germany might be in the works), the above with Russia. Again too many committees...very little action.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby ssundar » 23 Jan 2017 22:13

"Swanky" Five Star hotels on top of railway stations that might have Diesel Engine and/or open toilet trains? Not exactly something to look forward to. If someone has a vision similar to London St. Pancras, a HSR station might be a better fit.

However, I am all for converting old heritage buildings such as CST and Chennai Central into museums and replacing them with ultramodern green buildings away from city centers. Those ultramodern buildings can be multistorey and house shopping, food courts and traveller lounges of all classes. Sleep and shower facilities would also be great. One thing that would be great is to design stations such that platform ticket enforcement becomes more efficient.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 23 Jan 2017 22:57

there is no way to retrofit modern railway concourses like these onto any RS in india , big or small. this will have to be greenfield on outskirts.
all the "studies" will find the same issues and same remedies. GOI has dangled some carrots like trainset orders for semi-HSR maybe to get these free studies done...but I believe main thing is funding for the huge track, fencing, underpass and bridge improvements needed over 1000s of km - trainset is the smallest of problem but grabs biggest eyeballs and media hype.

Image

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 23 Jan 2017 23:02

I think both diesel engines and train toilets are being taken care off. They are putting bio-toilets and vigorously doing electrification work. However, after leaving a swanky station you may encounter a series of slums with people doing potty next to tracks. At least that is my experience in Delhi and to a lesser extent in Kolkata. These are mostly encroached land. They need to do something about these. Otherwise, the poor quality of railway experience will remain. In my recent travels I hardly found any foreign tourists in trains. This was not the case even in the 90s when air-travel in India was not that easy. Now majority of tourists have moved to airlines unless there is no alternative.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SaiK » 24 Jan 2017 04:55

After Four Major Train Accidents In Three Months, A Bewildering Maze Of Clues Lead Indian Security Agencies To Nepal, Dubai, And Karachi
New Delhi based travel agency allegedly formed part of the network.
23/01/2017 3:38 PM IST | Updated 12 hours ago

http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2017/01/23 ... ewildering

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby rahulm » 24 Jan 2017 08:29

MP talks about a Goa metro

It would be lovely if Goa gets a metro. However, what's the feasibility ?

Goa has a wide population spread between tourist season and off season.

Due to The new airport at MOPA, Mapusa will become the most important city in Goa.

From Panaji, I suspect the alignment will run North to Mapusa and then where ?the tourist trail Calangute-Baga-Anjuna-Arambol or maybe it makes sense to link Mapusa with the new airport.

For a state, whose taxi mafia have, so far, successfully, prevented Uber and Ola from operating, it will be interesting to see how MP will deal with this lumpen lot.

Any why is MP making these announcements instead of LP?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 24 Jan 2017 10:52

Are Goan cities big enough to have Metro or should they have a RRTS? Never been to Goa but it looks like urban state with lots of small cities and towns. A RRTS seems ideal for it.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 24 Jan 2017 17:20

Yes a light rail. Taxis are very expensive in goa.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 31 Jan 2017 03:37

An old video from SHQ: 9x JNR EF65s (100ton, 3500hp electric locos built by Kawasaki/Toshiba/Nippon Sharyo) with a combined weight of 1000 tons, run the route through the Seto Ohashi - the worlds longest series of double decker bridges - in 1988 before its inauguration. Great views of the track and bridge flex from the weight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImA0fhN5uxU

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 31 Jan 2017 04:16

These guys are some engineers. Although for the Mumbai Ah'bad HSR, under sea line out of Mumbai is good, I was hoping to see bullet trains speeding through densely populated Mumbai city. Would have been a great sight.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 31 Jan 2017 04:38

Talking about Shinkansen, here's the early prototype being tested on the Tokaido line in 1959-60:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0-_gQpnaI

Back then, they didn't look a whole lot different from us, just rebuilding after being bombed to bits. All the huts off the tracks looks curiously similar to what you'd see out of an IR train, except this one's going a lot faster...

Design and manufacture of the original Shinkansen Series 0 trainset:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGpWNSZNAyA

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Ankit Desai » 05 Feb 2017 06:35


vasu raya
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vasu raya » 05 Feb 2017 10:11

With recent train derailments in context, and railways allocating a significant part of its budget for safety, here is a solution that might work,

Taking the self driving cars with tube less tires and putting them on rail tracks so that they travel ahead of the trains at distances (less than a 1km) that allow for emergency braking of the train should this pilot vehicle hit an obstacle, derail or detect a hazard. The pilot vehicle has live CCTV feed looking ahead as well as at the tracks for issues, the CCTV feed is sent to the locomotive over a two way RF link. Image processing software can flag hazards in real time for the train crew to act on. Its sensors should work in night and foggy conditions as well.

It would also have a "red lamp" on top, something that is suitable for Indian environment. if a fire engine is approaching we can hear from enough distance.

This pilot vehicle is synced to the speed of the train increasing or decreasing the distance to enable safe braking of the train. Most of us trip on the safety aspect of such an arrangement. if the RF link fails the driver stops the train reducing the chance of the train hitting the pilot vehicle. Alternate communication nodes are setup along the tracks if the RF link is prone to disruption due to natural obstructions such as hilly terrain or tunnels. Without going into the "design" too much, these are some of the expected characteristics, the vehicle ought to be light weight so its acceleration is comparable to that of a motorbike with a truck and in the remote case of the train hitting it, its pushed out of the way. FRP can be used for the vehicle body. The vehicle can step aside the tracks using its own power also useful during train shunting operations.

They should have enough endurance to travel non-stop maybe equipped with 2 engines switching every few hours. To maintain their reliability should be replaced within few years of service. At 11000 trains on the rail network, a fleet of 15000 or so can be used which is typical of the operations of a big car rental company. Railways should really outsource such work and the sensors themselves should be outsourced to technology partners.

On self driving cars,
https://www.indianagazette.com/news/reg-national-world/selfdriving-car-prototypes-need-less-human-help-data-show,25819398/
The scenarios faced on a contained system like rail tracks is less than that of traveling on roads so the rate of false alarms is low.

car on rail tracks,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaZ4BCdJE-0

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 05 Feb 2017 22:54

Um the pilot engine thing is used in terrorism prone areas long ago

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vasu raya » 06 Feb 2017 00:27

Maybe it should be revived with newer technology providing better options. The railway track itself needs continuous monitoring, last year a low lying area was flooded and the tracks washed away causing a derailment in the night, then there are the Elephants getting hit incidents.

This pilot vehicle based on regular cars is a quicker way to get on the tracks, however if a FRP based vehicle is considered then they could make the left side and right side sections including the axles joined over pyro bolts so a trigger causes it to split into two parts pushing them to the sides of the tracks. The trigger could be a G-shock or a laser range finder and a rear camera measuring the approaching train.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 06 Feb 2017 10:53

in comms networks there are ways to monitor and locate breaks in the line , whether via wireless devices that penetrate the earth or inbuilt out of band monitoring. perhaps similar ideas could suffice with a wired network buried in parallel near the tracks and pulling sensor data for onward processing in unmanned nodes, with feed upstream into sectional station masters. sensors to detect earth movements, vibrations caused by explositions, track breaks (pass a small current through sections and monitor for break?)

a fitting case for large scale IoT methinks. I am sure some variant of this is already used in the HSR lines worldwide...a single break there is a disaster rather than a moderate derailment due to the high speed. we saw what happened in the Cheen hsr crash on a bridge.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sachin » 06 Feb 2017 12:42

Singha wrote: sensors to detect earth movements, vibrations caused by explositions, track breaks (pass a small current through sections and monitor for break?)

These kind of systems do exist. The "pass a small current", scheme is what is known as "track circuiting" in Railway terms. Small currents are passed onto the tracks. These tracks are also split into sections (by placing a non-conducting material between the tracks, when they are joined). When a train (or any vehicle) moves on the tracks it is actually "short circuiting" the "track circuit". And this is how the signalling system "detects" that there is a train on that section. And based on that the "signal panel" on the station master's room actually tracks the movement of the train in his territory.

But the track circuiting may not be there in many areas where the gaps between stations are really wide. Here from a signalling perspective, track circuiting is not necessary as signals etc. are only closer to the railway stations. But may be they should do that, in order to track defects on the tracks. Other wise the current way is to do routine manual patrolling (by the gang men, who have a specific "beat" to cover be it night or day).

These track circuits also helps in "Automatic Block System" (ABS) in busy sections (for eg: Mumbai & Chennai suburban system), where the train's own movement controls the signals on the rear of it. In Konkan Railway they had also come up with some metalic wire meshes, and used some how grown electric circuitry to detect if the wire mesh is broken. These wire meshes were placed next to the rocks etc, which was crash prone. A land slide would be detected by these wire meshes and alerts would flash to the stations, section controllers etc.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby JTull » 06 Feb 2017 18:04

Railways to show green signal to a train in Andaman and Nicobar

A 240-KM broad-gauge railway line connecting two major islands, with bridges and stations along the coast, will be part of an ambitious rail link connecting Port Blair with Diglipur on the Andaman and Nicobar Islands — a first in the country that will bring the archipelago on the rail map.

The Railway Ministry is set to approve the project, which will connect the Union Territory’s capital city in the south with the largest town on the north Andaman island currently linked by a 350-km bus service that takes over 14 hours and a ship that takes around 24 hours. There is no air connectivity.

According to an internal survey report of the ministry, the cost of the line will be Rs 2,413.68 crore with a negative rate of return on investment of -9.64 per cent. The Railways considers a line to be commercially viable if this figure is at least a positive of 12 per cent. But the ministry is set to approve this project owing to its “uniqueness and strategic importance”, according to documents reviewed by The Indian Express.

The ministry’s Planning and Finance directorates cleared the project last week saying it is desirable because “it is unique, away from the mainland, and has tourism potential.”

Giving a fillip to the rail link, the Union Territory administration has agreed to share 50 per cent of the project’s operational cost — or loss.

“As soon as the line is commissioned, tourism will see a jump from the current 4.5 lakh visitors a year to around 6 lakh a year, as per our estimates. So even though the railway survey shows a negative return, our assessment is otherwise. However, we have agreed to share the operational losses, if any,” Jagdish Mukhi, Lieutenant Governor of Andaman and Nicobar Islands, told The Indian Express.

According to the UT administration, the line has tourism potential and is of “immense strategic value” to the defence forces because Diglipur is just 300 km by sea from the southern coast of Myanmar — a broad-gauge train line from Port Blair to Diglipur will take three hours at the most.

The Railways’ Planning wing has suggested that the project may be taken up as part of the strategic lines it will build for Defence ministry, such as those in the border regions of the Northeast. The Finance arm has said that it may be taken up as a national project, like the Kashmir link, in which the general exchequer is billed. The Railway Board will take a final view on this issue soon.

The initial survey for the proposed line was completed in December 2014 but the plan was dropped. Last year, the project received a fresh push when the Railways updated the survey and the UT administration said it would chip in.

Among the major tourist attractions in Diglipur are the Ross and Smith islands. “These are just two of the main attractions. Lakhs of tourists take great pains to reach there from Port Blair every year. With the railway line in place, that part essentially become a part of the capital, beneficial to tourists, local residents and the defence forces,” said Mukhi.


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