Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

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nandakumar
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by nandakumar »

sumsumne wrote:First indigenously manufactured aluminium freight train rake inducted in Railways

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 896144.cms
Is it at all economically viable? If it was so, automobiles still use iron castings/steel forgings for machined parts and cold rolled steel for pressed metal parts. Even sea borne trade uses steel for marine freight containers. Surely one or both these sectors would have switched over to aluminum if it was cost effective.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Thakur_B »

Yes, it is economically viable when you consider these wagons are way lighter and will lead to massive savings in energy.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by yensoy »

nandakumar wrote:
sumsumne wrote:First indigenously manufactured aluminium freight train rake inducted in Railways

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 896144.cms
Is it at all economically viable? If it was so, automobiles still use iron castings/steel forgings for machined parts and cold rolled steel for pressed metal parts. Even sea borne trade uses steel for marine freight containers. Surely one or both these sectors would have switched over to aluminum if it was cost effective.
Audi is famous for making aluminum cars. These are very light; but there are some downsides. First is the cost. Also, if the car suffers a dent it is impossible to repair in a typical tinkering shop - it has to be sent back to the factory and potentially large sections have to be replaced. Steel is very resilient - although it deforms and stretches, it still maintains strength which cannot be said of aluminum. Lastly, any interface between aluminum and steel (and there are several because a lot of components that attach to a car body are still steel - for instance springs) have to be carefully mated with nylon washers to prevent galvanic corrosion.

Savings come from lighter weight. For Audi, the cars are already very heavy so by making the car body a bit lighter they can stick with a standard powered engine. For typical Indian cars with thin sheet metal bodies, the body is already very light. For cars the rolling resistance of rubber on road is high and needs to be so to keep the car in control (resistance can be reduced by overinflating tyres, but then the car loses grip of the road - same would happen if the car body were lighter).

For trains, rolling resistance is an order of magnitude lower due to steel-on-steel and has no bearing on control, so reducing the weight matters significantly.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by nandakumar »

Thanks yensoy and Thakhur_B. I worked for some years in Tata Motors at their trucks plant. There was an intense debate at one time, about switching over to aluminium for cylinder blocks from SG Iron. While aluminum reduced the machining time the incremental cost was disproportionately large. The reduction in vehicle weight too, didn't amount to much in terms of savings in fuel cost or incremental freight loading. They gave it up after some time.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

India's indigenously built all-aluminium freight rail wagons

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Jits »

Good explanation by Ashvani Vaishanav ji

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvOdp0RJHz4


Why has the 3-tier AC coach been profitable for the Indian Railways? | The Hindu





Millions of people travel via the Indian Railways every day. Despite this, the Railways is facing financial issues, with most types of coaches incurring heavy losses.

The exception to this is the 3-tier AC coach, which has been profitable every year, cornering a significant portion of revenue, even though it carries fewer passengers than sleeper and second class coaches.

In this episode, The Hindu decodes why this is the case.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by nandakumar »

chetak
The YouTube presentation misses an important point. The Railways have pricing freedom in 3 Tier AC seats that they lack in non-AC 3 Tier seats. Non AC 3 Tier fares are highly politicized for decades. You may recall that the former Railway Minister Dinesh Trivedi belonging to the TMC had to resign for hiking non AC 3 Tier fares without consulting Mamata Bannerjee. The hike was of course long overdue. For a 300 km journey the non AC 3 Tier fare is Rs 185. But the AC 3 Tier fare for the same distance is Rs 440. The capacity in both cases are the same - 72 berths. If you are able to charge two and a half times the loss making fares of non AC 3 tier fare it makes business sense to push this along.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Sachin »

nandakumar wrote:Non AC 3 Tier fares are highly politicized for decades.
SL and UR tickets have been heavily subsidised for years. Railways cross subsidise this loss by over charging the freight transport. This may have been required during initial years of Independent India to enable mass movement of people. I also feel the old socialist mindsets are still retained with these impractical fares continued so that the 'poor' can actually travel. What is now happening is that any person who can afford a 3 Tier AC ticket is going for that, or opt for very good sleeper and sitting buses/coaches. SL coaches have become unmanageable. In long term I.R should go for more 3 AC coaches and retaining very few SL coaches.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

nandakumar wrote:chetak
The YouTube presentation misses an important point. The Railways have pricing freedom in 3 Tier AC seats that they lack in non-AC 3 Tier seats. Non AC 3 Tier fares are highly politicized for decades. You may recall that the former Railway Minister Dinesh Trivedi belonging to the TMC had to resign for hiking non AC 3 Tier fares without consulting Mamata Bannerjee. The hike was of course long overdue. For a 300 km journey the non AC 3 Tier fare is Rs 185. But the AC 3 Tier fare for the same distance is Rs 440. The capacity in both cases are the same - 72 berths. If you are able to charge two and a half times the loss making fares of non AC 3 tier fare it makes business sense to push this along.
Right saar. Good point
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by rajkumar »

New Vande Bharat Trains Likely To Get Airplane Like Features Including Inflatable Evacuation Slides

https://swarajyamag.com/infrastructure/ ... ion-slides
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by rrao »

VB after its inaugural run from Mumbai to Ahmedabad has three cow hits so far causing some minor damage to the front dome . rail service got interrupted for a short time. in another case Delhi to Varanasi VB, one of the motor bearing got damaged and it was detected in time by the gateman...Why cant it have cow protection like other locos... This should not be a hindrance for running VB all over india..
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

rrao wrote:VB after its inaugural run from Mumbai to Ahmedabad has three cow hits so far causing some minor damage to the front dome . rail service got interrupted for a short time. in another case Delhi to Varanasi VB, one of the motor bearing got damaged and it was detected in time by the gateman...Why cant it have cow protection like other locos... This should not be a hindrance for running VB all over india..
isn't it too much of a coincidence, hitting 3 cows in such a short time

These VBs need better designed cowcatchers so that the dome is not affected.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by AkshaySG »

chetak wrote: isn't it too much of a coincidence, hitting 3 cows in such a short time

These VBs need better designed cowcatchers so that the dome is not affected.

I wouldn't think so..last year there were over 15000 animal hits with Railways but the old engine style is so rough that there is next to no damage to the machine...And no damage then no media story

Whereas with VB it immediately takes a chunk of the front and is easy publicity for the NDTVs of the world.

That being said each case should be investigated to completely rule out any ill intentions.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Prem Kumar »

Swarajya report that only 40% of the track in the high-accident sector is unfenced. Infra issue.

https://swarajyamag.com/infrastructure/ ... ence-zones
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by venkat_kv »

rrao wrote:VB after its inaugural run from Mumbai to Ahmedabad has three cow hits so far causing some minor damage to the front dome . rail service got interrupted for a short time. in another case Delhi to Varanasi VB, one of the motor bearing got damaged and it was detected in time by the gateman...Why cant it have cow protection like other locos... This should not be a hindrance for running VB all over india..
AkshaySG wrote:
chetak wrote: isn't it too much of a coincidence, hitting 3 cows in such a short time

These VBs need better designed cowcatchers so that the dome is not affected.

I wouldn't think so..last year there were over 15000 animal hits with Railways but the old engine style is so rough that there is next to no damage to the machine...And no damage then no media story

Whereas with VB it immediately takes a chunk of the front and is easy publicity for the NDTVs of the world.

That being said each case should be investigated to completely rule out any ill intentions.
Akshay SG and rrao Saar,
The VB trains have been built with aluminium for lighter weight and also follows the newer tech used in automobiles where the body crumples upon impact. The recent pics of accidents bear testimony to this issue. While animals hitting the train might be a common occurrence, the press that followed the three hits is definitely suspect.
The usual suspects have come up with expected stories and headlines, but it is more of a failure on their part to find out why and how the incident occurred, they seemed to think they know it all and filled it with fertile imaginations of their brain.
The older train sets with steel and iron attachments in the front that will probably crush any other vehicles, will not be present in VB as it will also affect the speed with effect for air resistance issues also pitching in.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by rahulm »

Cattle may not be safe but Vande Bharat is!!

Sudhanshu Mani the Designer of VB chips in, in his cheeky blog post on the cattle hit issue and VB. His word should be the last. He knows VB best.

Separately, I think there are laws against stray cattle with the owners responsible for their "strayness" but like many laws, they exist only in some dog eared book in a PWD built library in Annex XV, engulfed by a banyan tree. I have personally read the Goa panchayat charter and laws on stray cattle. It exists only on paper while the cattle are everywhere eating the paper it was written on.



He talks about the bureaucracy, inefficiency, entrenched lobbies including the important lobby, and how they delivered. Inspirational.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

Siemens sets up state-of-the-art factory for bogies in Aurangabad to meet demand from India and also from markets across the world.

The bogies are based on the Siemens' SF30 Combino Plus design


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https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 106_1.html
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by vera_k »

isn't it too much of a coincidence, hitting 3 cows in such a short time

These VBs need better designed cowcatchers so that the dome is not affected.
Wonder why the the cow slaughter law cannot be used to book the owner of the cow for neglect leading to death of the cow? This tactic cannot be used for water buffalo hits, but the railways can certainly go after cow owners using this law.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by JTull »

You don't need a hammer for every problem. They're planning to fence off the tracks.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

JTull wrote:You don't need a hammer for every problem. They're planning to fence off the tracks.
fencing will be limited only to the high risk areas
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Aarvee »

JTull wrote:You don't need a hammer for every problem. They're planning to fence off the tracks.
I am sure the designers know what they are doing but I keep thinking a plough (like the one Arjun MkII has for mines) may work.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Aditya_V »

Cattle being run over has been an issue since the Railways has started, when I was young trains used to be delayed Half an hours to 2 to 3 hours when Cattle were run over.

Slowly through Bridges, under passes the issue will get sorted out. It is petty how Vande Bharat is being Targeted. I guess the Liberandu photo of Swiss Railways on Social Media will no longer feel something special for them .
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by SRajesh »

chetak wrote:
JTull wrote:You don't need a hammer for every problem. They're planning to fence off the tracks.
fencing will be limited only to the high risk areas
Chetakji
How about natural barriers like planting cactus/shrubs/thorny bushes
Ecologically sound/provide nesting areas for birds/occasional munchies for the goats and cattle ( :lol: )
Also, solar powered motion-sensitive horn or ultrasonic devices to prevent road-kill or in this case track-kill
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

Rsatchi wrote:
chetak wrote:
fencing will be limited only to the high risk areas
Chetakji
How about natural barriers like planting cactus/shrubs/thorny bushes
Ecologically sound/provide nesting areas for birds/occasional munchies for the goats and cattle ( :lol: )
Also, solar powered motion-sensitive horn or ultrasonic devices to prevent road-kill or in this case track-kill
Rsatchi saar,

It may be OK in some high density city and town areas but in the rural areas, level crossings are few and far between. Fencing thus becomes a hinderance and people will tear it down repeatedly.

People steal batteries from solar powered street lamps, so this will either be a very expensive solution or practically, a no go solution
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Sachin »

vera_k wrote:Wonder why the the cow slaughter law cannot be used to book the owner of the cow for neglect leading to death of the cow? This tactic cannot be used for water buffalo hits, but the railways can certainly go after cow owners using this law.
The railways already have laws to prevent tresspassing (of people). I also know two cases in which IR managed to recover damage costs when a domesticated elephant was hit by a train, and in another a domesticated elephant run amock and destroyed track. In the cases of cattle the problem is that often the owner cannot be traced (for railways to press damage) and the animal would also not be in an identifiable position after the run over. There would not be many owners who will seek damage over a dead animal.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

Sachin wrote:
vera_k wrote:Wonder why the the cow slaughter law cannot be used to book the owner of the cow for neglect leading to death of the cow? This tactic cannot be used for water buffalo hits, but the railways can certainly go after cow owners using this law.
The railways already have laws to prevent tresspassing (of people). I also know two cases in which IR managed to recover damage costs when a domesticated elephant was hit by a train, and in another a domesticated elephant run amock and destroyed track. In the cases of cattle the problem is that often the owner cannot be traced (for railways to press damage) and the animal would also not be in an identifiable position after the run over. There would not be many owners who will seek damage over a dead animal.
Besides, there are many people from the surrounding areas who rush to the spot to dismember the carcass and cart away the meat.

I have been चश्मदीद गवाह to such an instance while stuck at a railway crossing, waiting for the barrier to lift
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

@RailMinIndia· 2h

The New Railway Line between Bhadrachalam Road and Sattupalli, having three Railway Stations on route, namely Saravaram, Chandrugonda and Parthasarathipuram, brings the mining district of Sattupalli on Rail Network.


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Vips »



Sudhanshu Mani on the drawbacks/impediments in increasing the number of Vande Bharat trains.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by venkat_kv »

x post from internal security thread

There is report of explosion on Udaipur- Ahmedabad railway line. this was a new railway line inaugurated just about 15 days ago by the Prime Minister.
Luckily there were cracks on the rail line and locals seemed to have alerted the police who stopped the subsequent trains. The NIA also is involved and early reports seem to indicate explosives used from mining. The tracks were damaged, but not completely blown up.

Is it also a shanti dooth inspired PFI plot or just a contractor who didn't get the bid acting out of jealousy?

I can only think of the press, had any accident taken place, with the usual headlines talking about the quality of work being done and since lie travels quicker than truth can put on shoes, a good set of people would be try to be convinced with the initial reports and only try to build from there.

https://www.opindia.com/2022/11/rajasth ... k-damaged/
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... t-8266511/
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

The Railways has roped in the Steel Authority of India Limited and the Rashtriya Ispat Nigam Ltd to manufacture wheels for Vande Bharat Express trains 2.5 lakh wheels for the 400 Vande Bharat Express trains, to be produced over the next three years

https://infra.economictimes.indiatimes. ... a/91630320
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Cyrano »

Until now we were importing from Ukraine. Necessity....
Not just in defense, a lot of other sectors can benefit from some level of import ban list.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

onlee in India

@PTI_News·3h

Thieves dig tunnel to railway yard in Bihar's Begusarai district, steal entire diesel engine part by part: Police
https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/sto ... 2022-11-25

An entire diesel engine was stolen piece by piece from a railway yard in Bihar's Begusarai district, police said on Friday.

The thieves dug a tunnel to the yard and started stealing parts, slowly doing away with the entire engine that was brought there for repairs, they said.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Vips »

Indian Railways seeks Rs 1.5 trillion as budget support; may announce 300-400 new Vande Bharat trains in FY24.

The railways will likely seek gross budgetary support (GBS) of around Rs 1.5 trillion for 2023-24, up from the outlay of Rs 1.37 trillion for the current fiscal year, according to an official source.

The GBS is one of the main sources for capital expenditure for the national transporter, which barely makes any operational surplus. It also borrows from the market via the dedicated arm IRFC and from other sources including multilateral agencies, besides crowding in private investments via the PPP route.

Investment in railways projects from Central Budget rose 91% on year to Rs 88,548 crore in the first half of the current financial year.

About 300 to 400 Vande Bharat trains are expected to be announced in the Budget 2023-24 as part of the Indian Railways’ plan to modernise its rolling stock. This adds to the fleet of 400 such trains announced this year. It also expects about 100 Vande Bharat trains to be manufactured in 2023-24.

The railways will also focus on automatic signalling and expanding the Automatic Train Protection (ATP) System called Kavach as well as laying of new lines, the source added.

Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman had, in the Budget 2022-23 announced that 400 new-generation Vande Bharat Trains would be developed and manufactured during the next three years.

Further, she had said that 2,000 km of network would be brought under Kavach, the indigenous world-class technology for safety and capacity augmentation in 2022-23 “More such works will be taken up in the next Budget,” the source said.

Indian Railways is also laying down and ambitious road map to lay about 100,000 kilometre of new track over the next 20 to 25 years as well as gradually increase the maximum speed of trains to 160 kilometre per hour.

“There is a need to decongest the railway network for faster movement of both freight and passenger trains,” the official noted.

“The serial production of Vande Bharat trains has started from October this year and we expect the production to be ramped up by January or February 2023,” the source said. The sleeper Vande Bharat train is likely to be rolled out in early 2024.

The Railways is also hoping to turn into an exporter of the indigenously developed semi high speed Vande Bharat trains by 2026 and is also working on a standard gauge version of the train.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Cyrano »

Railways & IT minister Ashwini Vaishnav was interviewed on Timesnow. I wish anchor Padmaja had asked better questions. All on YouTube if you're interested.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

Indian Railways earned around $13 billion (1,05,905 crore) in 7 months of FY23.

An improvement of 16%, 91,127 crore to the same period of last year

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 914358.cms
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

France's Alstom, Russia's Metrowagonmash, and three consortia - Siemens-BEML, Stadler-Medha and Bharat Heavy Electricals-Titagarh Wagons - have bid for the manufacture, supply and maintenance of 200 Vande Bharat trains to the railways at a cost estimated around ₹50,000 crore.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 894327.cms
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