Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7588
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sachin » 28 Dec 2015 19:57

SSundar wrote: As an "IT Superpower", the latter should be an easily solvable problem. The former is a really bad one. The entire IR organization needs to get much better at demand analysis and infuse agile decision making to move trains around to meet the demand.

1. Tatkal was introduced after IR knew that there were people who were willing to pay extra to travel by train. Tatkal quota has still not blocked the advantages of a person booking the journey well in advance and getting a confirmed berth. Suvidha/Premium Tatkal concept originated after knowing that people could still pay more to get a confirmed booking. Which also shows that passengers were not really short of money (which they would have spent any way on an inter-state bus) in the first place.
2. On the agile decision making process. This would at least take a decade (if not more) to be implemented. Take for example the SBC-ERS route at any festival season in Kerala. If normal ticket rates are applicable and more trains are introduced, the tickets would get sold out in no time. But these trains still would have to be run on the double lines of SBC-BWT-JTJ-SA-ED-PGT-ERS. And trains coming from non-SBC destinations would also join the rush when they enter the same area at AJJ or JTJ. The railways for sure knows the rush, but it just cannot run trains only based on that destination (where the rush is to-i.e KL). I mean, IR cannot afford to have a time table which runs so many trains that every Keralite gets a confirmed berth (at cheap rates) to his destination for his festival season. I chose the example of KL, because this is one whine I hear every time (in the news paper). Infact my aim is to meet the journalist who writes such a whine story, and ask him if he sees an alternative (after fully understanding how IR operates, including signal working, power and crew management).

arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3414
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 28 Dec 2015 20:32

SSundar wrote:One hopes that IR is soon able to get rid of license-quota systems such as tatkal. These are artifacts of severe supply constraints and possibly the lack of a fully real time reservation and capacity management system. As an "IT Superpower", the latter should be an easily solvable problem. The former is a really bad one. The entire IR organization needs to get much better at demand analysis and infuse agile decision making to move trains around to meet the demand.

Tatkal is actually a system of utilizing a scare resource to generate more revenue. It's not too different from what airlines do - all their seats are like tatkal. Airlines have of course taken it a step further with dynamic pricing, and IR is slowly following suit.

As Sachin saar said, the railways have a lot of data about travel patterns, and do respond to it by introducing special trains for "clear extra rush". The problem is the track capacity (not going there again since Sachin saar covered it), and also constraints of rolling stock. IR has very few coaches lying around the network that can immediately be pressed into service. All the coaches in operation are fully utilized - do you know every train has an elaborate chain of operation and maintenance, along with innovations like "rake sharing arrangement" to distribute maintenance load and maximize utilization? There is a reason IR's coaches and locos have a codal life of 30 years, and actually run that long. The answer is maintenance, which most people forget. Contrast this to the life of an average city bus in Chennai , 3 years within a single city and the bus is wheezing. There is another reason for this long life: necessity is the mother of invention. Every coach turned out of the coach factories is already spoken for by a long list, and there are very few spare coaches that can be assembled into a functional rake. Keep in mind that there are around 65K operational passenger coaches, which need pit lines for maintaining each one of them.

Let me explain with an example. The Karnataka express arrives in Bengaluru in the afternoon hours, around 13:00. The return train to New Delhi leaves by 19:00 or so, a gap of 6 hours. Now, considering that the incoming train has performed a journey of more than 2000 km, the rake needs elaborate maintenance that takes more than 6 hours. So the same rake cannot be sent back as the outgoing train in the evening. So need a different rake for the evening, while sending the incoming rake back the next day. But due to space and resource constraints (a: need to park the rake for almost 30 hours till the next day, and b: there is always a sever shortage of rakes), IR simply sends this incoming rake to Chennai that night (dep ~2300) as the Chennai mail. Its own pairing train, the incoming Bengaluru mail arrives in Bengaluru (SBC) the next morning around 0500. This rake is cleaned, checked for maintenance, and then sent out in the evening as the Karnataka express to New Delhi.

The above is only a simple example and can be tweaked for even better utilization. Where possible, IR has done that, subject to operational constraints like track availability, etc.

The story of locos is even more stark: many passenger trains are provided with goods locos due to shortages. And loco numbers are nothing to sneeze at: 5K electric and 6K diesels. Then why these shortages? Due to extreme demand, and not enough financial muscle to ramp up manufacturing to meet the demand. This in turn is due to successive ministers using IR as a political cash cow and saddling it with its pet projects. My fingers are crossed hoping that Mr. Prabhu can pull off a second consecutive budget without new trains.

In summary, you have a point about efficient resource management, and I am saying IR is aware of the need for it, but cannot do beyond a point due to severe operational constraints.

Sachin wrote:I chose the example of KL, because this is one whine I hear every time (in the news paper). Infact my aim is to meet the journalist who writes such a whine story, and ask him if he sees an alternative (after fully understanding how IR operates, including signal working, power and crew management).

Saar, then you'll be accused of being intolerant to the journalist's right to write whatever he wants, logic be damned :lol:

kmkraoind
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3908
Joined: 27 Jun 2008 00:24

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby kmkraoind » 29 Dec 2015 09:42

The bullet train dream comes true - Livemint

It is imperative to see how the loan provided by Japan would make the project financially viable. In the absence of Japanese aid, with an assumption that investors and lenders would expect at least 10% as real return on investment (RoI), the RoI would be Rs.9,800 crore. When added to operation and maintenance costs, the fare box revenue would have been at least Rs.14,200 crore for the project to be financially viable. It could happen only if the ridership would be about 140,000 passengers per day in 2024.

With Japanese financial aid, 80% of the total cost would come with an interest rate of 0.1% and the remaining would expect 10% real RoI, making the weighted average cost of capital (WACC) 2.51%. In this context, the fare box collection would have to be at least Rs.6,900 crore. This could happen with an end-to-end ridership of 67,600 passengers per day in 2024. The moratorium of 15 years will reduce the ridership requirement to 61,800 passengers per day in 2024, which corresponds to an annual ridership of about 22.6 million passengers. Any HSR project that could get a ridership of 10 million in the first year of operation is considered to be a worthy project for investment.

member_19686
BRFite
Posts: 1330
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby member_19686 » 29 Dec 2015 17:45

An amazing makeover for this Rajasthan station, courtesy WWF and Indian Railways
Touted to be the first of its kind in the country, the project is being funded by the World Wildlife Fund India (WWF-I).
Monalisa Das| Monday, December 28, 2015 - 18:48

The railway station at Sawai Madhopur in Rajasthan, the tourist city which is home to the Ranthambore National Park, wears a look unlike that of any other station in the country today. A team of local painters are busy giving it a makeover- paintings, graffiti and cut-outs depicting the flora and fauna of the region adorn the walls and ceilings of the station...

http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/am ... HyIuq.dpuf

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5458
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vishvak » 30 Dec 2015 00:12

Not to digress, but Rajasthan has a very rich arts culture. An example is intricate carvings on camels during festivals just by cutting off a bit of hair - as it will grow back in a day anyway.
Some pics - link

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36388
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SaiK » 30 Dec 2015 00:46

^hope they don't paan spit and pee on the painted walls. @swacchbharat

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 841
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 30 Dec 2015 16:13

@ Arshyam: I took Lalbagh Exp. a few days ago and it had an ICF rake and yes indeed the seats in the CC are plusher looking, looks like leather seats, are comfortable and have good legroom. Coming back from KPD, I took the double decker. That is a LHB rake. Seats are shabby looking, and the legroom is bad. To make matters worse, they have welded a big cage to put your bottled water in. Unfortunately this cage occupies a substantial portion of the legroom area and between your water cage and your neighbour's water cage you have basically a slot to put your knees in. Why does not the web to put magazines in suffice for the water bottle, most people don't read anymore for short journeys but were busy discussing dinner in Bangalore, so the webbed magazine pouch should be OK for water bottles too. The ICF rakes have just that and it is ample.

At KPD I had some time to witness plenty of action. The loco pilot of the Chennai bound Shatabdi from Bangalore which had halted on PF2 smartly got out of his loco, and moved over as if to inspect the couplings
and took a massive and long pee against the wheels of his Royapuram WAP7. The latrine on PF2 was barely 10m from the loco and he could I suppose in principle use the 2nd CC of the Shatabdi as an alternative, but go he did against his loco. Sitting on PF1 I took a nice clean shot of this act. Man got in washed his hands with his drinking water, hooted and away they went rattling towards AJJ.

Then came Kovai express and Seshadri Exp. The best sight was a long BFKI rake of colorful containers, hauled by twin BZA housed WAG5E looking nice and colorful too, color coordinated with the containers they were hauling. The Coimbatore bound Shatabdi made a big show rattling down the through line, guard waving his green and the Deputy Station master KPD making a show of his green. Players in an operetta shall we say. One does not get a chance to watch this minuet from a platform as one is usually at a junction station where the train stops.

Our DD was stopped at Gudiyattam and had a go slow before Kuppam, as there was a long stretch of track maintenance going on, perfect day for that with great temps. As usual stopped at SBC outer, usual story no platforms available and so we reached 10 mins late, on an other wise on time arrival. The tracks seem OK but between Kuppam and Tyakal seems the jolting and side sway was a little pronounced. Unfortunately all the madame's have been very unkind to me, beginning with Nanda Devi in late October at Auli, who veiled herself in clouds and so did Dronagiri, playing coy and so did Yellagiri at JTJ today. In fact the haze and veiling is quite persistent I am told and could barely make out the Javadu hills today. Not a great day for hill watching.

At SBC, was lucky to see KK express come in, two swanky looking burnished Guntakal WDM3's the lead engine hooting away brought the KK in smartly. What happened to the Moula Ali twins? Saw couple of WAP7's Royapuram and Lallagudda, WAP4 Erodes, a KJM WDP4D and a WDM3d from Erode. Don't these poor souls have a trip shed and do they need to occupy a line ? As usual the parking problem is noticeable, rakes galore planted in platforms. This should be addressed by SWR. I thought the Binny Mills deal had helped out, seems not:

http://www.railnews.co.in/at-last-bbmp- ... -railways/

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20262
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 31 Dec 2015 11:02

Sometimes RAC is better than a confirmed reservation :)

Image

prahaar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2797
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 04:14

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby prahaar » 31 Dec 2015 11:44

Chetakji, that is more likely single fare double journey. RAC is provided only in the "Side Lower" right?

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20262
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 31 Dec 2015 13:19

Indian Railways to get an independent regulatory authority to set fares soon


The Railways Ministry, according to sources in the railway bureaucracy, has finalised the contours of an independent tariff and freight regulatory authority whose job will be to delink the fare and freight structure from political exigencies and at the same time resolve disputes and ensure a level playing field for private investors.

With financial health of railways taking precedence, the draft says that if the government does not accept the tariff suggested by the regulator, it will have to compensate the organisation appropriately, "perhaps through increased allocations in the gross budgetary support or through a suitable mechanism".




Image

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20262
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 31 Dec 2015 13:46

the risk factors that this guy has brought out will further help to sharpen the overall viability analysis of the HSR project.

It has some good inputs that can be used.


Mumbai-Ahmedabad High Speed Rail: Will the revenues cover even cost of hedging the Yen loan?


Mumbai-Ahmedabad High Speed Rail: Will the revenues cover even cost of hedging the Yen loan?

NEMI JAIN | 17/12/2015 |


The distance between Ahmedabad and Mumbai is not long enough for HSR to be a decidedly superior alternative for travellers. It may be very difficult to hit 40,000 daily travellers by 2023. If so, forget profits, even the revenue will not cover hedging costs

An agreement to build High Speed Rail (HSR) from Mumbai to Ahmedabad has recently been signed. A trail blazing project of this kind generally falls into a high risk, high reward category. It would be interesting to critically examine such projects. Let us first look at the project from the financial angle. The primary funding source (80%) will be a yen denominated loan at 0.1%. While this might look like easy money, there is foreign exchange (FX) risk involved. If the FX Rate moves favourably then a project can look like pure genius. On the other hand, if the FX rate moves adversely, even the most sound project can look like a financial disaster. The standard way to look at the cost of funds is to look at the cost of hedging that is take FX risk out of the equation and look at this as a rupee loan. The present cost of such a conversion is about 6% per annum (p.a.). This interest rate is lower than prevalent interest rates in India, but is nowhere as small as the headline 0.1%.

The Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA) report estimates that 40,000 passengers will use the HSR daily in 2023. With an average revenue per user around the Rs3,000 mark, total revenue will be Rs4,000 crore in the first year of operations. Considering a project cost of Rs1 lakh crore, the interest/ hedging amounts to about Rs6,000 crore per year. Including operational costs will add to expenses. So in pure financial terms, this project is not viable over the medium-term. Longer-term inflation and increasing passenger numbers should help in getting to the breakeven point.

However, projects of this nature are seldom profitable. There are other indirect economic benefits that accrue due to infrastructure projects.

The quantification of these benefits is more of an art than science. A small change in assumptions will lead to a large variation in these benefits. A key metric to look for economic benefits would be the number of passengers utilising HSR, so we will scrutinise this number further.

At present, about 6,000 passengers travel daily in the AC chair car category on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor. This number does not include overnight passengers traveling in AC classes. Fare from Mumbai to Ahmedabad in AC Chair car is Rs660. Fare for Shatabdi Express, which includes a surcharge and catering charges, is Rs955. While it is difficult to predict what fares will be eight years down the line, at present the fares are a fraction of the expected HSR fare for this sector. Thus, it will be a challenge to convert these passengers to HSR consistently.

About 7,000 air passengers also travel on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad/Vadodara route daily. These will be key passengers for HSR. However, even here, a significant number of these passengers are transit passengers who use Mumbai as a transit point for onward travel - both domestic and international. This sub category of air passengers will probably continue flying as it will make their transit in Mumbai easier affecting the number that can be moved to HSR.

There is another unique factor, which needs to be looked at closely. The Mumbai suburb of Borivali in particular and the Western suburbs in general have a high concentration of Gujaratis. Thus, residents of these localities will be important customers for an HSR that connects main cities of Gujarat with Mumbai. The planned HSR route however starts from Bandra Kurla Complex (BKC) and continues to Thane and Virar and misses Borivali completely. A passenger, say from Vadodara will have a choice of taking a normal train and reach Borivali in four to five hours. Alternately, she can take the HSR from Vadodara that will take two hours to reach Virar and take an additional hour to transfer and travel to Borivali on a Mumbai suburban local. Many passengers will take the former option. This option is compelling with little difference in travel times for all stations along the HSR except maybe Ahmedabad.

The same situation though to a lesser extent applies to Mumbai Central and BKC. While BKC has grown significantly in a short period, South Mumbai continues to be a major commercial destination and Mumbai Central - the current end point for trains seems to be more conveniently located. Thus, the patronage of customers will be divided.

While overall passenger numbers will rise with time, the possibility of this number to be anywhere near 40,000 daily by 2023 looks difficult. Getting to these numbers will be a key challenge for the project.

A successful implementation of the Mumbai-Ahmedabad HSR will open up the possibility of HSRs on other sectors, somewhat similar to what Delhi Metro did to Metros around the country. Conversely, an HSR service looking for passengers will have a negative effect on other HSR projects in the country.

Please note that in absence of concrete data, some of the numbers are qualified guesses.

(Nemi Jain studied Engineering at IIT Bombay. He has spent a major part of his career working in banks)

Arunkumar
BRFite
Posts: 643
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 17:29

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Arunkumar » 31 Dec 2015 19:17

^^^

Thane is included for a future branch off to Pune and bangalore from Gujurat. Pune to Ahmedabad can bypass main land mumbai for a faster trip.

narmad
BRFite
Posts: 217
Joined: 10 May 2005 09:47
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby narmad » 31 Dec 2015 20:20

Mumbai-Ahmedabad High Speed Rail: Will the revenues cover even cost of hedging the Yen loan?

NEMI JAIN | 17/12/2015 |



There is another unique factor, which needs to be looked at closely. The Mumbai suburb of Borivali in particular and the Western suburbs in general have a high concentration of Gujaratis. Thus, residents of these localities will be important customers for an HSR that connects main cities of Gujarat with Mumbai. The planned HSR route however starts from Bandra Kurla Complex (BKC) and continues to Thane and Virar and misses Borivali completely. A passenger, say from Vadodara will have a choice of taking a normal train and reach Borivali in four to five hours. Alternately, she can take the HSR from Vadodara that will take two hours to reach Virar and take an additional hour to transfer and travel to Borivali on a Mumbai suburban local. Many passengers will take the former option. This option is compelling with little difference in travel times for all stations along the HSR except maybe Ahmedabad.



Well for Borivali, it all depends on the time when you reach Mumbai.
Mornings, get down at BKC and travel back comfortably . adds 20 mins train time
Evenings, get down at Virar and travel ahead. adds 20 mins train time

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3244
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kakkaji » 01 Jan 2016 06:16

i think Mumbai-Ahmedabad is too short a distance for passengers to prefer a high cost HSR. The minimum distance you need is Delhi-Mumbai. Mumbai-Bangalore, Mumbai-Chennai, Delhi-Chennai are also viable IMHO.

The Mumbai-Ahmedabad will have to be extended to Pune and Bangalore to the south, and Jaipur and Delhi to the north, before it will show a profit IMHO.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3569
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 01 Jan 2016 09:47

Kakkaji wrote:i think Mumbai-Ahmedabad is too short a distance for passengers to prefer a high cost HSR. The minimum distance you need is Delhi-Mumbai. Mumbai-Bangalore, Mumbai-Chennai, Delhi-Chennai are also viable IMHO.

The Mumbai-Ahmedabad will have to be extended to Pune and Bangalore to the south, and Jaipur and Delhi to the north, before it will show a profit IMHO.


Au contraire, Mumbai Ahmedabad distance of 527km lies within the sweet spot for HSR to work and work well. For comparison, Tokyo-Osaka is 552 km. Of course, it may be viable to have a HSR covering the route from Delhi to Mumbai, but that will be viable not only because of passengers travelling the entire distance, but for large no. of travellers taking the HSR for sub 500km distances- Delhi-Jaipur for instance.

Delhi-Mumbai at ~1400km is slightly longer than Beijing-Shanghai at ~1300 km, which takes ~5 hours by HSR at 300km/h. Flying time between Delhi and Mumbai is ~2 hours. Of course, if you take the airport travel, transit and check in timings, it may be comparable with HSR.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36388
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SaiK » 03 Jan 2016 19:52

go for the 500km/h maglevs then.. of course purely not speaking on economic terms here.

Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1098
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Rishirishi » 04 Jan 2016 01:25

Kashi wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:i think Mumbai-Ahmedabad is too short a distance for passengers to prefer a high cost HSR. The minimum distance you need is Delhi-Mumbai. Mumbai-Bangalore, Mumbai-Chennai, Delhi-Chennai are also viable IMHO.

The Mumbai-Ahmedabad will have to be extended to Pune and Bangalore to the south, and Jaipur and Delhi to the north, before it will show a profit IMHO.


Au contraire, Mumbai Ahmedabad distance of 527km lies within the sweet spot for HSR to work and work well. For comparison, Tokyo-Osaka is 552 km. Of course, it may be viable to have a HSR covering the route from Delhi to Mumbai, but that will be viable not only because of passengers travelling the entire distance, but for large no. of travellers taking the HSR for sub 500km distances- Delhi-Jaipur for instance.

Delhi-Mumbai at ~1400km is slightly longer than Beijing-Shanghai at ~1300 km, which takes ~5 hours by HSR at 300km/h. Flying time between Delhi and Mumbai is ~2 hours. Of course, if you take the airport travel, transit and check in timings, it may be comparable with HSR.



You cant always look at the past traffic volumes to predict the future. It is not only about Mumbai. Do not forget the traffic between Surat, Varoda and Ahemedabad. And it is not only about traffic.

Imagine an small industrialist has a project but cant purchase the land near Mumbai. He also finds it hard to manage the business from a far location. With a fast train, he may be comfortable in investing in Surat or Varoda. He may only purchase 2-3 round trips per month, but the end game may be employment for hundreds.

Imagine a wel payed professinal wanting to visit family for a day or 2. A flight may take a total of 5-6 hours each way (driving, airport etc). So he may not visit his family. But with the possibility to reach home within 2 hours, it may be desirable to travel.

Sooner or later India too will need to build 3-6000 km or HSR. So it is important to gain the as much experiance as possible.

Picklu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2008
Joined: 25 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Picklu » 04 Jan 2016 19:39

Given the security scenario in India, the time spent on boarding HSR would be similar to time spent in Airport. Baggage screening, physical security - all will be there. A train travelling 250 km per hour on ground is as dangerous as a flying aircraft in terms of explosives, fire etc.

hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4424
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby hanumadu » 11 Jan 2016 02:41

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/railways/railways-choose-vibrant-colours-for-semi-high-speed-train-coaches/articleshow/50518504.cms

Railways choose vibrant colours for semi-high speed train coaches

According to the plan, railways will introduce trains that can clock speeds upto 200 kmph after strengthening the tracks and fencing off certain select routes including Delhi-Agra, Delhi-Kanpur, Chennai-Hyderabad, Nagpur- Secunderabad and Mumbai-Goa.

Initially, the trains will run at 160 kmph which will be enhanced to 200 kmph.

The long-awaited 160 kmph Gatimaan Express between Delhi and Agra is expected to start in February after the railways got conditional clearance from Commissioner Railway Safety. Trial runs of this train are being conducted. "The train will be flagged off in February after the foggy season ends," the official said.


Considering that distances in India between major cities are short, I can only imagine how convenient it will be to travel at 150 kmph avg speed. People will be commuting between cities for work.

SSundar
BRFite
Posts: 626
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SSundar » 11 Jan 2016 03:37

hanumadu wrote:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/railways/railways-choose-vibrant-colours-for-semi-high-speed-train-coaches/articleshow/50518504.cms

Railways choose vibrant colours for semi-high speed train coaches

According to the plan, railways will introduce trains that can clock speeds upto 200 kmph after strengthening the tracks and fencing off certain select routes including Delhi-Agra, Delhi-Kanpur, Chennai-Hyderabad, Nagpur- Secunderabad and Mumbai-Goa.

Initially, the trains will run at 160 kmph which will be enhanced to 200 kmph.

The long-awaited 160 kmph Gatimaan Express between Delhi and Agra is expected to start in February after the railways got conditional clearance from Commissioner Railway Safety. Trial runs of this train are being conducted. "The train will be flagged off in February after the foggy season ends," the official said.


Considering that distances in India between major cities are short, I can only imagine how convenient it will be to travel at 150 kmph avg speed. People will be commuting between cities for work.


Is 160 kmph/200 kmph the average speed or the peak speed? If it is peak speed, how much of the journey can be expected to be done at the peak speed?

sumsumne
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 23
Joined: 15 May 2004 11:31
Location: Bangalore

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby sumsumne » 11 Jan 2016 03:43

Peak speed; this will be the speed in the fenced off straightened track

Dipanker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3021
Joined: 14 May 2002 11:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Dipanker » 11 Jan 2016 04:38

The speed of these Indian SHSR is getting there, @160 - 200 KMPH it can cover the distance between Ahmadabad and Mumbai in approx. 3 hours or so, only about an hour slower than HSR. Those who want to save an extra hour can certainly take the plane.

This being an in house solution, I like this better!

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21084
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Prem » 12 Jan 2016 08:39

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 933_1.html
hri Suresh Prabhu inspected a Model Rake (a passenger carrying train with 24 coaches) with improved interiors, colour scheme, aesthetics and amenity fittings at Safdarjang Station, New Delhi

number of new features have been incorporated in the design of these rakes, major ones are as follows:
i. Aesthetically appealing toilet modules provided with enhanced passenger amenities - big mirror, platform washbasin, controlled discharged water tap, odour control system, exhaust fan, LED lights, dustbin inside the toilet to name a few. ii. Ergonomically designed Ladders for climbing up to upper berths provided in all sleeper coaches. iii. Snack tables provided for side berth passengers also with innovative design side lower berth arrangement. iv. Windows with powered venetian blind provided in FAC coaches and roller blind in ACCW coaches instead of conventional curtains. v. Composite panels without visible screws and minimum maintenance hatches inside passenger area for better safety and aesthetics. vi. Provision of dust bin in all coaches. vii. Enhanced scale of light fittings including berth reading lights in GSCN Coaches and embarking light in all classes of coaches. viii. LED based berth indicators for reserved coaches provided to assist passengers boarding train in night. ix. Provision of Passenger Address system & Passenger Information System in all the coaches. x. The scale of mobile/ laptop charging points have been increased in all classes of coaches. xi. Use of superior material for panels in terms of toxicity index and fire retardation. xii. Use of LED Lighting to minimize power consumption and more service durability. xiii. Shifting of electrical junction points from passenger area to non-passenger area in a centralised distribution board for enhanced safety. xiv. Use of e-beam cables and polyamide conduits for enhanced electrical and fire safety. xv. Provision of fire extinguisher in all coaches. xvi. Provision of electrically operated chimney in Pantry Car. xvii. Stainless steel panelling in Luggage Compartment of SLR. Besides above, exterior and interior colour scheme of the coaches has also been changed to impart more pleasing feel to passengers. Average cost of upgrade of a Non AC coach is approximately 16 lakhs and for AC coach is approx. 22 lakhs. Taking price escalation into account present additional cost of upgrade would be around Rs 18 lakhs for Non AC coach and Rs 25 lakhs for an AC coach approx. 87 coaches are further planned for turning out in the year 2016-17 under the existing contract.

member_29064
BRFite
Posts: 341
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby member_29064 » 13 Jan 2016 00:56

Jhujar ji, if the above is designed by CRWS, Bhopal, then what is NID engaged in? are they also in the process of roll-out of something like this for other trains/stations? any idea?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ind ... 656819.cms

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21084
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Prem » 14 Jan 2016 07:47

TravelKhana.com, the first pioneer for enabling food ordering for travellers, has teamed up with Indian Railways Catering and Tourism Corporation or IRCTC to deliver fresh and well prepared food in the tain journey. The company’s services will soon be available on the IRCTC’s e-catering website.Under the arrangement Travelkhana’s listing will be available for travellers using the IRCTC’s e-catering website. This comes under the revenue sharing arrangement that the two companies will get into. Under this arrangement people coming to Travelkhana’s website will also be book their meals online while travelling. The integration offers enhanced convenience to travellers by facilitating easier access to delicious and hygienically-prepared fresh food for their train journeys.Both the companies are working on integrating the service platforms so that the revenue sharing arrangement works as a part of the recent policy announced by The Railways. Travelkhana will start its services at the New Delhi & Hazrat Nizammudin railway stations on the E-catering system and has expressed its interest in starting its services on a total of 17 stations in the first phase.
Pushpinder Singh, Co-Founder & CEO, TravelKhana, said, “It is indeed an honour for us to be working with Railways through IRCTC as the partner of choice on their site. We have been working with Railways for a while to come out with a policy that will allow the passengers to be able to avail the service of their choice, rather than be limited and constrained by the licensed food suppliers. The association is a welcome step in this direction. We will continue to work for addressing the needs of the people by on the move by standardizing our services across the spectrum as well as extending our services to include local specialities as well address the needs of other types of travellers including suburban and bus travellers. We look forward to the day when over 1 million people booking their tickets on the IRCTC platform daily will be able to utilize services of Travelkhana along with booking their tickets and make their travel comfortable. ”

http://www.businessworld.in/article/IRC ... 016-90225/

Bade
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7212
Joined: 23 May 2002 11:31
Location: badenberg in US administered part of America

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Bade » 17 Jan 2016 19:05

Can Kerala Afford to Postpone High-speed Train Service? by E Sreedharan

Kerala has the highest road density in the country in terms of route-length per sqkm. It also has the highest vehicle density, if metropolitan cities like New Delhi, Mumbai and Chennai are excluded.

Meanwhile, Kerala also tops in the number of road accidents per sqkm, with fatalities touching 8,000/year. With Thiruvananthapuram, the capital of Kerala, located almost at the southern end, and commercial capital Kochi situated in the north, the travel pattern in the State is predominantly in the north-south direction.

The two corridors of transportation that are currently available - the railway line and the national highways - have not been able to handle the heavy traffic. There was a proposal to construct a separate eight-lane motorway from Kasargod to Thiruvananthapuram, to augment the north-south transport capacity. However, it had to be abandoned due to opposition to land acquisition from the public.

It is in the above context that the government considered a high-speed railway line, from Thiruvananthapuram to Kannur, which could later be extended to Kasargod and Mangaluru as well. A feasibility study on the high-speed railway line was carried out by the Delhi Metro Rail Corporation (DMRC), and a report was submitted to the State Government in September 2011. Subsequently, the report was accepted by the government and the DMRC started preparation of a detailed project report (DPR). The DPR will be ready for submission to the government in March 2016.

Bade
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7212
Joined: 23 May 2002 11:31
Location: badenberg in US administered part of America

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Bade » 17 Jan 2016 19:08

Regarding the financial aspects from above link...
In that case, about 85 per cent of the project cost and technology could be sourced from Japan, with a moratorium of ten years and repayment period of another 30 years on a low interest rate of only 0.3 per cent. Then, the investment of the Central Government will be only around `7,500 crore, and that of the State Government only about 15,000 crore.

It is expected that the high-speed railway line would bring down road accidents by almost 30 per cent, saving around 2,400 lives every year. This alone is an ample justification for opting for high-speed rail. I am of the view that a high-speed railway line from Thiruvananthapuram to Kannur would change the face of Kerala, ushering in a new era of economic development in the State.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7588
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sachin » 18 Jan 2016 09:41

Bade, from the link
The detailed survey has shown that the total area to be acquired will be 600 hectares, of which private land accounts for 450 hectares. The total number of affected structures will be only 3868 along the entire length, and affected trees about 37,000.

For a huge venture like this the land acquisition demand seems to be pretty low. And perhaps with the right incentives this can be achieved. By the way, there is also a scheme to have a small suburban network. Kerala Govt. has also agreed to share the costs with IR for the same. The first stretch would be between TVC and KTYM, and includes modernisation schemes like "Automatic Block Signalling" etc (like what they have done in Mumbai). This by itself would enable more trains to be run on the existing tracks.

Bade
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7212
Joined: 23 May 2002 11:31
Location: badenberg in US administered part of America

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Bade » 18 Jan 2016 17:55

^^^ The opposition to this idea if any will be from land-owners (even if it is a small amount totaling just a thousand acres over 500km of its length) and not from political ideology at least. Wasn't it the left which started on it initially. So common ground can be found irrespective of who leads in the state. The last word is not out yet, but the current CM has not been successful in getting even the gulf-based HNIs to help out with any initial investment on this.

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6300
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 18 Jan 2016 19:34

I don't think there will be any regional HSR before the diamond quadrilateral and trunk route DFCs are built which itself could take 30-40 yrs.

Bade
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7212
Joined: 23 May 2002 11:31
Location: badenberg in US administered part of America

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Bade » 18 Jan 2016 20:55

^^^ OTOH, there is more reason for regional short segments over the longer quadrilateral using standards of feasibility used elsewhere. Only the Delhi-Mumbai segment perhaps makes sense of all the quadrilateral sides.

Regional ones like KHSR and Chennai-Blur segments and spokes out of B'lur makes more sense to build over the next decade. IMO, other regions are not there economically to make a strong case as of now.

Hitesh
BRFite
Posts: 793
Joined: 04 Jul 1999 11:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Hitesh » 19 Jan 2016 01:22

Bade,

Don't discount the possibility of "If you build it, they will come" If you build the infrastructure in that place, that place would become economically feasible.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36388
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SaiK » 20 Jan 2016 00:51

we need a grand plan for HSR. these should also tie into the metro connection points easily. a well connected traffic system is needed. in the future aiding tourism agenda, I should be able to purchase rail+road+air packages full in itinerary scheduled by agents per my schedule and route plans.

central standardized models are way much better than regional growth model for desh, when it comes to vikas. zonal implementation can be augmented by satisfying core needs of the larger plan.

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3244
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kakkaji » 23 Jan 2016 08:26

India, France to ink high-speed rail deal on Sunday

India and France are expected to sign an agreement for a high-speed railway link between Delhi and Chandigarh on Sunday, reports Huma Siddiqui in New Delhi.

According to a source, “Paris has offered its help to India for upgrading its railway infrastructure, especially with its expertise in high-speed and semi-high-speed rail projects trains, for upgrading the Delhi-Chandigarh line to a 200-kmph one and for redevelopment of the Ambala and Ludhiana railway stations.”

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11493
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A_Gupta » 30 Jan 2016 17:35

Cross post from the economy thread:
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 031_1.html

Have to quote a bit to give the context of the punchline (emphasized):

The government's cash balance with the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) was Rs 1.4 lakh crore on January 28, an amount unusually high for this time of the financial year and is causing acute liquidity pressure in the banking system.

The cash pile-up indicates the Centre may be reluctant to spend in order to meet the fiscal deficit target of 3.9 per cent of the gross domestic product (GDP) for 2015-16.

...
Analysts said government cash balance with RBI was usually around Rs 70,000 crore at this time of year. Finance ministry officials said while the Centre was not holding back on capital expenditure, there was a tightening over schemes where spending was weak in the first three quarters of 2015-16.
...
The finance ministry has told the departments concerned that it might not support schemes in January-March that have not utilised funds in the first three quarters of the year.
...

Officials said the finance ministry was not keen to release Rs 12,000 crore of the Rs 40,000 crore gross budgetary support for the railways citing poor pace of work.


Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3244
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kakkaji » 31 Jan 2016 07:12

Freight corridor: Rs 17,500 crore tenders to be finalised by March

VADODARA: Tenders worth Rs 17,500 crore related to dedicated freight corridor (DFC) project will be finalised by March, junior Railway Minister Manoj Sinha said today.

Talking to reporters here, he said most of the land acquisition and statutory clearances for DFC have been completed or obtained. Project execution has also begun with the award of civil contracts for 1,100km route.

The ambitious Rs 81,459-crore project envisages freight rail lines along the western corridor be between Delhi and Mumbai and the eastern corridor between Ludhiana and Howrah, running through Delhi.

Tenders worth Rs 17,500 crore on the western corridor will be finalised by March, he said.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36388
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SaiK » 01 Feb 2016 08:26

I think we should re-negotiate to consider a larger plan on bullets. Ask Japan to fund us with augmented bullet lines cover the length and breadth of the country.

Delhi - A-bad - Goa - Tvm - Chennai - Vizag - Kolkata - Delhi and NS, EW lines.

we had enough of dealing with French on Rafale

Bade
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7212
Joined: 23 May 2002 11:31
Location: badenberg in US administered part of America

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Bade » 02 Feb 2016 17:59

How long does it take to trash a brand new train ? What happened to Swach Bharat...down by the wayside.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/remember-the ... 02294.html

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36388
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SaiK » 03 Feb 2016 20:38

A one-time refundable swacch deposit must be made before any travel. 5k for 1st class, 2k for 2nd etc. two buckets is enough.
against CCTV footage, charge the trashers to cleaners.

no issue of tickets unless they can show maintenance of minimum swacch deposits

JUST DO IT! freaking @$$ let them learn the lessons hard way.
idiots culture is hard to unlearn. hygiene is born at home.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36388
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SaiK » 05 Feb 2016 04:14

http://indianexpress.com/article/cities ... -railways/

so is this the first IRNSS system to put in place?

IMHO, you don't need a satellite for this.. all we need is a RF transmitter at the crossing to send signal that an approach is clear to the driver. it can be further integrated with codes to say, number of people waiting, bus count, traffic data so that the train knows how many people are blocked.

you need a good video/infrared camera, object recognition and counting algo, and an RF transmitter.

The best option of course if building that darn useful bridges for all those crossings.


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests