Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 25 Oct 2018 04:39

That's a spectacular piece of work by IR. This thing came out of nowhere, implementing a totally different design paradigm much removed from what they've been unimaginatively building or just modifying imported designs of. A great first attempt.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 25 Oct 2018 05:55

I feel ICF should be hived off as a dedicated train set design and production bureau. Of course IR can be involved in co-development and giving their inputs, but they should be two separate entities, the way it is for most successful railway systems around the world. For instance, Kawasaki, Hitachi and Sanyo manufacture trainsets for JR companies, especially the Shinkansen and then there are smaller forms that manufacture trainsets for region-sepcific companies.

Hyundai Rotem manufactures train sets for KoRail and have also supplied units for Delhi Metro

Likewise there's Bombardier, Siemens etc who supply trainsets to European railway companies, Bombardier also provided trainsets for Delhi Mtero among others.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 25 Oct 2018 08:17

we are following the soviet model of design and production agencies being same in a captive market.
as of now there is no scope for anyone in private sector to be lead system integrator though most of the parts may come from pvt sector esp for Train18

we have the worlds largest 2020s market for trains and aircraft but very few top end production houses...even for parts. Cheen is way past us and tinkering with 4 engine Y20 and exporting HSR (like ankara to istanbul)

giving all production to a govt agency with no competition or work splitting is sure way to get low productivity.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 25 Oct 2018 09:42

Considering what they've accomplished when given the latitude to do so, yes ICF ought to be spun off as a separate entity with IR as a customer. They're clearly capable of building something pretty decent when given the chance to. It doesn't look any different from the RENFE Alvia services in Spain or mid range intercity services in Japan.

Inside the coach factory of one of the main Japanese coachbuilders - Hitachi:


Nippon Sharyo (they also make the CalTrain coaches):

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 26 Oct 2018 18:14


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby nam » 26 Oct 2018 18:36

In terms of building aluminium based body, ICF can form a deal with Auto companies who have experience using AL in their products. Even Tata have been using it for a while.

Then there is NAL who can support in aero dynamics studies to streamline it further.

We already have the template, just need to make it lighter and efficient. The ecosystem is already in the country.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 26 Oct 2018 20:38

More details of T18.

https://youtu.be/0FUkaxwqHCk

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 26 Oct 2018 20:44


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 27 Oct 2018 08:49

Delhi metro will hit triple century next week. WOW.

TRILOKPURI SANJAY LAKE - SHIV VIHAR METRO SECTION TO BE FLAGGED OFF FOR PASSENGER OPERATIONS ON 31ST OCTOBER, 2018

The Trilokpuri Sanjay Lake - Shiv Vihar Metro section of Delhi Metro's Pink Line will be formally flagged off for passenger operations on 31st October, 2018 by Sh. Hardeep Singh Puri, Minister of State (Independent Charge), Housing and Urban Affairs, Government of India and Sh. Manish Sisodia, Deputy Chief Minister, National Capital Territory of Delhi on 31st October, 2018 (Wednesday).

The section will be flagged off via remote from Metro Bhawan at 09.30 am and the passenger services on this section will commence from 2 pm on the same day. This 17.86 kilometre elevated section comprises of 15 elevated stations – Trilokpuri Sanjay Lake, East Vinod Nagar- Mayur Vihar- II , Mandawali- West Vinod Nagar, I.P. Extension, Anand Vihar ISBT, Karkardooma, Karkardooma Court, Krishna Nagar, East Azad Nagar, Welcome, Jaffrabad, Maujpur- Babarpur, Gokulpuri, Johri Enclave and Shiv Vihar.

The main highlight of this section will be the presence of three interchange stations - Anand Vihar (with Blue Line), Karkardooma (with Blue Line) and Welcome (with Red Line).

After the opening of this section the Delhi Metro network will become 314 (313.86) kilometres long.


http://www.delhimetrorail.com/press_rel ... ncloiTAlld

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 27 Oct 2018 08:54

Supratik wrote:New WAP5 engine.

https://youtu.be/A1WVNAXzKSA


what is the difference? it looks same to me.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 27 Oct 2018 09:04

More aerodynamic, some changes to gear operation that will facilitate 200 kmph top speed.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 27 Oct 2018 16:29

Naive question but why make these anymore if train 18 and 20 is the future?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 27 Oct 2018 16:36

T18, T20 will be Shatabdi, Rajdhani and new concepts. Other premium trains will be Tejas, Mahanama, Anubhuti, Antodyay. These and remaining trains will be LHB based. But if you want to upgrade entire track to semi-high you will need these engines.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 27 Oct 2018 19:48

i recall vaguely WAP5 loco being a imported swiss ABB design had the ability for 200k , but were restricted to lower by IR to prevent accidents.
the rest of it also looks like going back to the original OEM std from the austere IR std

business standard::

The Railway Ministry in a tweet said, "CLW today produced 1st Engine with aerodynamic and ergonomic design and 200 kmph speed potential. This WAP-5 loco is energy efficient and stable for high-speed operation. It will be utilised to haul the prestigious trains like Rajdhani Express, Gatiman Express and Shatabdi Express."

The engines are also equipped with the latest IGBT-based propulsion system, while the driver's desk has been ergonomically re-modified for improving the maneuvering skills for the loco pilots.

Besides, the locomotives have been provided with Crew Voice and Video Recording System (CVVRS) for onboard driving date recording and analysis. Cameras with microphones will also be provided at the positions both inside and outside the locomotives to record the voice and audio signals for post-event analysis with data storing facilities.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Bart S » 27 Oct 2018 19:51

nam wrote:In terms of building aluminium based body, ICF can form a deal with Auto companies who have experience using AL in their products. Even Tata have been using it for a while.

Then there is NAL who can support in aero dynamics studies to streamline it further.

We already have the template, just need to make it lighter and efficient. The ecosystem is already in the country.


Tata owned JLR is the world leader in aluminium-based automobiles, it would be a pity if IR ignored their capabilities and went for a foreign turnkey solution.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 27 Oct 2018 20:06

ABB(who makes the traction electrical parts) and Alstom the loco maker work closely with IR and supplies for WAP7 also

https://new.abb.com/news/detail/8791/ab ... n-railways

the swiss Lok2000 was cost optimized and made austere and imported as the WAP5. you can see it was 200kmph to start with

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB-CFF-FFS_Re_460

view inside a wap5 cabin shows its neat but analog. we added that anti-intifada stone thrower grill and had some kid do finger painting on the outside rim of the windows :(( complete lack of any std wrt aesthetics. no AC either just a fan. imagine driving through kanpur bhusawal warangal in 48C heat with hot transformers and motors nearby while "top officials" sit in their AC offices and ring the bell for peons to fetch water.

we continue our quixotic quest to "save opex" in the most foolish ways like having the most critical person on the train suffer to "keep him on this toes" while millions are wasted on bureaucratic machinery, contract mechanisms and the chai paani of "top officials"

we are a country of hands-off managers not workers - more talk, less work, just giving "inputs" . the worker is to be exploited and thrown away.


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 29 Oct 2018 07:53

Train18 trials will start from today

railfans and indian railway might tweet some video. so please warm up 3D radars and initiate sector scans.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Ashokk » 29 Oct 2018 14:19

Railways plans aircraft-like pressurised coaches for world's highest railway track in Leh
NEW DELHI: The Railways plans to use aircraft-like pressurised coaches in its trains for the Bilaspur-Manali-Leh line along the India-China border, which will be the world's highest rail track, so that passengers do not have breathing difficulties on board.

Aircraft cabins are pressurised because the air is very thin at the altitude planes fly. To prevent complications, the cabins of many aircraft are adjusted to near sea-level pressure, which makes breathing almost the same as at sea level.

At a height of 5,360 metres above the sea level, the 465-km strategically significant line to be built at a cost of Rs 83,360 crore, will see railways' first pressurised coaches which are currently used only in the Quinghay-Tibet Railway Line in China.

"Special pressurised rolling stock to deal with lack of oxygen will have to be used in these trains as passengers might feel uneasy because of the high altitude. These will be like the pressurised cabins used by aircraft to maintain the oxygen levels inside," said Chief Engineer (Construction), Northern Railway, D R Gupta.

The Chinese coaches, manufactured by Canada's Bombardier Inc, which also makes small planes, are specially designed to carry passengers in an oxygen-deficient atmosphere.

In order to do this, the train cars have to be pressurised, to ensure that all of the passengers do not finish their journey with severe cases of altitude sickness.

Gupta explained that in the Tibet train, two kinds of systems are used to maintain oxygen levels - one is through the main controls which maintain standard oxygen levels and gets switched on at high altitude areas and the other is through oxygen ports equipped for each passenger to use when they feel that they lack oxygen.

It is, however, not clear if these coaches will be produced in India or they will be procured from outside.

The Integrated Coach Factory which is in expansion mode is already pepping up to produce both metro coaches as well as coaches for the Ahmedabad-Mumbai bullet train and could be roped in to make coaches for the Bilaspur-Manali-Leh line as well, an official said.

The line, once completed, will connect important locations between Bilaspur and Leh like Sundernagar, Mandi, Manali, Keylong, Koksar, Darcha, Upshi and Karu and other important towns of Himachal Pradesh and Jammu & Kashmir en route.

The project will include 74 tunnels, 124 major bridges and 396 minor bridges, according to the first phase of the survey. Final location survey for the project is currently underway.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby suryag » 29 Oct 2018 14:42

what happens when the passenger gets down ? not that it matters to the railways, but how do people cope with the change from pressurized to un-pressurized rarefied air ?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 29 Oct 2018 14:51

its same taking a airline flight to leh or lhasa

they have to follow protocol and not exert too much, take time to acclamatize, and not spend too much time above 15,000feet. headache, kamjori and nausea may occur.

any tour of that region includes a initial day or two in leh to get used to 10,000 feet.

my data points are:
- wife went with a group of 10 ladies to Leh. of them 4 did not feel good after a day of local touring and remained confined to leh , and came back by flight. the other 6 went by innova on 3 axes - hemis monastery, over the 17,000ft chang la pass to pangong tso, and over the 17000 ft khardung la pass to nubra valley camp (bactrian camel ride included). at such high points there are signs by IA not to loiter long but move back fast to lower alt, the taxi operators know this well, just a quick stop for photo shoot, sometimes free tea provided by IA or from shops (maggi+tea) and down they drive.

- the one in best shape was the oldest a 65yo professor. the youngest ones were in the worsest condition. maybe motherhood and age provides a cushion.

of late the khardung la ultra and the leh marathon have become popular stops on bucket lists :lol:

@ chang la pass there is a sign near this asking tourists not to linger at the pass more than 15 mins but move on
Image

medical aid hut - Itvity munnas and munnis are anyways weak to start with
Image

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 29 Oct 2018 16:33

https://www.financialexpress.com/infras ... s/1364333/

interview on train18 with ICF GM, Sudhanshu Mani.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 29 Oct 2018 19:12

Any videos of trial run of Train 18? Can't find one on YouTube.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 29 Oct 2018 20:19

looks like it has been handed over to the testing org from its shed...but tests will commence soon in November...starting with low speed taxi trials, then high speed taxi trials, then full on tests in phases upto 160kmph sustained. 1000s of moving test points will need to be checked carefully before clearance is obtained.


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 29 Oct 2018 20:23

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 29 Oct 2018 20:34

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 29 Oct 2018 20:39


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 29 Oct 2018 22:00

The media is falling over itself looking stupid while describing Train 18. "Self propelled train, does not require an engine" and elsewhere "no engine, yet it drives itself!" . It's an EMU. Particularly appalling for Mumbai and Chennai journos who just took the suburban or MRTS to get to work...

I'm really impressed what ICF accomplished with the Train 18.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sachin » 29 Oct 2018 22:18

Suraj wrote:The media is falling over itself looking stupid while describing Train 18. "Self propelled train, does not require an engine" and elsewhere "no engine, yet it drives itself!" . It's an EMU. Particularly appalling for Mumbai and Chennai journos who just took the suburban or MRTS to get to work...

I saw this video getting shared on social media, but did not watch in detail. So ultimately this was not a "driver less train", but an EMU which can go at higher speeds etc. Good show from ICF, as this looks very similar to the typical "train sets" seen in European countries.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Rahul M » 30 Oct 2018 00:36

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/howrah-de ... -the-route


Howrah-Delhi Train Travel To Be Cut To Just 12 Hours After Railways Announces Train-18 For The Route

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 30 Oct 2018 00:47

But they said T-18 is going to replace Shatabdi. Confusing.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Rahul M » 30 Oct 2018 01:31

since this is a chair car only model, it can replace the other chair car that runs on NDLS-HWH route, Yuva express. Train20 will replace the rajdhanis et al.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 30 Oct 2018 02:15

Its already been clarified that gq ewns routes can suatain 160 speeds only after dfc are completed and funds allocated to third or fourth tracking the existing dual lines

Ie most freight traffic will move to dfc and slow trains to the new tracks

This is what cheen did to bring semi hsr speeds to its trunk routes

Else given our 12000 trains daily its impossible on tje high density inter metro lines which cart 50% of traffic

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SaiK » 30 Oct 2018 06:49

I think HSR separate track lines are highly desirable in the long-term

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 30 Oct 2018 07:16

Saik yes hsr ie > 250 cruise speed will need new straight dedicated lines also costly new bridges which can handle the shock of trains at that speed our old british era ones cannot

But if we third or fourth track the existing trunk lines the avg speed of most exp trains can be doubled to 100-150 range relatively simply even using icf and lhb rakes with locos

In piecemeal way this is already in progresss

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 30 Oct 2018 09:26

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 30 Oct 2018 09:32

even at 160 kmph, unfenced tracks can be pretty deadly. note how silently the gatimaan express approaches, by the time you hear the horn its almost too late if someone is jaywalking along tracks with headphones plugged in or not paying attention

it will cut through a motor vehicle like a knife through butter and shred it.


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 30 Oct 2018 09:55

a good look at the various non-HSR trains in china....

the upper tier of sleepers are much better than our antique 2AC and 1AC - this may get fixed with LHB2 ? I dont see any plan how to improve the current 2AC/1AC level?

the worst of the lot which is hard chair / smoking / bring your own food is still a lot better than our "general compartments" which are pure hell.
all is AC -> so no dust and one can argue as a fig leaf that china has very cold climate in winter - but not southern china which is like assam and myanmar

the people seem disciplined and take care to maintain order and keep the coaches clean , not throw stuff on floor and damage fittings. they smoke a lot and must have some variant of zarda but no peet peet stains and littering



my longest journey in general bogie was when my college (NitW) closed due to a outbreak of violence by students. this coincided with the surat plague so lot of workers from Odisha were making their way back home via that route.

I literally stood in the corridor for 10 hrs at night before getting a scrap of seat , and then on into Odisha when finally people cleared out in barhampur and bhubaneswar.....from there to howrah was ok .... I slept on a hard upper bunk. then we had to spend the whole day sitting on newspapers in sealdah until we caught kanchenjunga express CHAIR car to GHY. sitting another 24 hrs in that chair car (albeit padded).....so 48+12 = 60 hrs on the march. I dont think I could do it today, but maybe I can - the will to survive can do anything

I reached home in a rickshaw with a bare Rs4 in my pocket. my parents were shocked to see me as I hadnt even phoned home. my brat sister yelled chi chi banish him he has come from plague area :evil: my mother had me drop all my clothing and luggage outside and boiled it in hot water.

my batchmates from arunachal , nagaland then had another 24 hrs bus/train journeys to reach home from GHY :((

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 30 Oct 2018 15:17

News18

New Delhi: With the opening of the Shiv Vihar-Trilokpuri Sanjay Lake section of the Pink Line on Wednesday, Delhi Metro will join the league of top metro networks around the world which have an operational length of over 300 km, a senior official said Monday.

The all-elevated section in east Delhi consists of 15 stations, three of which are interchange facilities.


"Once this segment of the Pink Line is inaugurated, the Delhi Metro network will expand to nearly 314 km with 229 stations.

"With this, the Delhi Metro will cross the 300-km mark, and join the league of the top metro systems around the world, which have already done so, like metros in London, Beijing, Shanghai, New York," Executive Director, Corporate Communications at DMRC, Anuj Dayal told reporters.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SaiK » 30 Oct 2018 18:45

Singha wrote:In piecemeal way this is already in progresss
yes! this is required, in addition to new infrastructure. Also a dedicated infra for freights.

A 1# important question to all indics:
does the T-18 carry Indic toilet system with singapore ishtyle water jet bidets as well?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 31 Oct 2018 00:36

Incredible job by the railways. Cant wait to see this train :D !

I am peering hard at the videos of this driver less, engine less, steel less, spot less terain and trying to find where the footsteps that slide out are. Did they actually do it? It would be the ultimate boon for aged people.

By the way:

‘World’s Highest’ Leh-Manali Trains To Have Flight-Like Pressurised Cabins!
The Leh-Manali line is the highest railway track in the world, and the trains that run on it need to be special.

https://www.thebetterindia.com/163150/l ... ches-news/

“Special pressurised rolling stock to deal with lack of oxygen will have to be used in these trains as passengers might feel uneasy because of the high altitude. These will be like the pressurised cabins used by aircraft to maintain the oxygen levels inside,” said DR Gupta, Chief Engineer (Construction), Northern Railways.



https://swarajyamag.com/insta/howrah-de ... -the-route

The semi-high speed train is set to undergo short runs near the ICF for five days, While doing so it will test braking systems and air-conditioning systems. Furthermore, it will familiarise the crew with the onboard systems before being moved to New Delhi.


Where did the stone pelting on the Tejas happen last time?


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