Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

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Prasad
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Prasad » 23 Nov 2018 21:46

A Nandy wrote:Brake testing:


Singha,
The "uttejit" guys are all jumping around nearby :D

Anyone can estimate what the braking distance was in that shot.

Less than 2/3 train length.

Blr Hyd is 580km. Beijing Shanghai HSR runs a 1,300km line at a quickest time of 4h30m approx. We could do blr-hyd or mas-hyd in 2h30! Flight time is 1h for both routes, but this of course excludes time to board, at the airport etc.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Prasad » 23 Nov 2018 21:51

Heck, the german study says MAS-mys can be done in 2h25m. https://t.co/osNppw1lMK

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby sooraj » 24 Nov 2018 09:59

Why This Train Is The Envy Of The World: The Shinkansen Story


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 24 Nov 2018 10:22

True just that hsr station needs to be sited nicely and linked to metro and good road

Even semi hsr will get huge footfalls in this triangle vs the bus option..,this can use existing tracks and train18 type day trains and charge a premium over others

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kakkaji » 24 Nov 2018 17:20

I think the Bangalore-Chennai-Hyderabad triangle can easily support HSR

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby nam » 24 Nov 2018 17:26

Kakkaji wrote:I think the Bangalore-Chennai-Hyderabad triangle can easily support HSR


How many people travel on a regular basis (3-4 times per week), that reducing time will help? Creating a HSR for people travelling on weekends is not really a economically viable solution.

My view HSR line should be between two economic centers or economic center + living center, not more than 1 hr travel or even less. This will allow people to use HSR on a daily basis and still live 100-200 KM from the economic center.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 24 Nov 2018 17:59

nam wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:I think the Bangalore-Chennai-Hyderabad triangle can easily support HSR


How many people travel on a regular basis (3-4 times per week), that reducing time will help? Creating a HSR for people travelling on weekends is not really a economically viable solution.

My view HSR line should be between two economic centers or economic center + living center, not more than 1 hr travel or even less. This will allow people to use HSR on a daily basis and still live 100-200 KM from the economic center.


Then you are not aware of the number of people in various companies who travel for 1 to 2 hour meetings.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Prasad » 24 Nov 2018 18:36

nam wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:I think the Bangalore-Chennai-Hyderabad triangle can easily support HSR


How many people travel on a regular basis (3-4 times per week), that reducing time will help? Creating a HSR for people travelling on weekends is not really a economically viable solution.

My view HSR line should be between two economic centers or economic center + living center, not more than 1 hr travel or even less. This will allow people to use HSR on a daily basis and still live 100-200 KM from the economic center.

The madras-blr highway is packed most of the times. As are the trains. There are something like 25 trains daily that run direct. And more that run through madras to blr.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kakkaji » 24 Nov 2018 19:30

Indian Railways looks to export world-class trains! Coach factories to take bulk orders for new revenue stream

For potential customers under the proposed policy, the national transporter is looking at Southeast Asia, the Middle East and Africa.

The report said that Indian Railways is seeking alternative sources of revenue by capitalising on the cost advantage offered by India’s coach factories which manufacture train cars up to a fifth cheaper than overseas competitors. It is being expected that the export policy will empower General Managers and officials of the above rank to take decisions and fix the deals quickly.

Rajesh Agarwal, Member Rolling Stock, Railway Board was quoted in the report saying Indian Railways has good capacity to ‘Make in India’ coaches and the national transporter can maintain international standards as well. He said that the cost per coach will be 20% to 25% less than what is offered by other countries around the world. Indian Railways, if an export policy is in place, will be able to take frequent orders and the railway officials will not have to take an approval for every decision.

Recently, the first set of Diesel Electric Multiple Units (DEMU) was exported by Indian Railways from Integral Coach Factory (ICF), Chennai to Sri Lanka. ICF GM Sudhanshu Mani had told Financial Express Online that the build quality and features of the export DEMU rake for Sri Lanka are world-class. The factory has exported coaches as well as coach components to various other countries such as Taiwan, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Angola, Tanzania, Mozambique, Nigeria, Uganda and Sri Lanka.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kakkaji » 24 Nov 2018 19:46

Prasad wrote:Heck, the german study says MAS-mys can be done in 2h25m. https://t.co/osNppw1lMK


If the Germans offer financing on the same terms as the Japanese have provided for the Mumbai-Ahmedabad HSR, then I say we should immediately go for this project.

Similarily, the French were studying the Delhi-Chandigarh route for semi-HSR (200kmph). That would be another worthwhile project.

Such projects can create commercial mega-clusters of Delhi-Chandigarh-Jaipur-Agra in the north, Mumbai-Ahmedabad-Vadodara-Pune in the west, Bangalore-Chennai-Hyderabad-Mysore in the South, Kolkata-Jamshedpur-Ranchi-Patna-Balasore-Bhubneswar in the East, where same day travel and return would be feasible for meetings and work.

North, West, and South are immediately financially feasible IMHO, East will take some more time to get to that level.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 24 Nov 2018 19:51

From SSC's Chennai airport thread (link):

Image

This shows the air traffic between MAA-BLR and MAA-HYD last month. See this (link to DGCA publication) for the full list of stats.

That apart, Chennai-BLR has 7 dedicated daily trains, 3 of them all-AC (two Shatabdis and 1 double decker). The assumption being these are higher fare-paying passengers. All these trains run full irrespective weekdays or weekends. Then there are the AC Volvo services - KSRTC alone runs about 30-35 Volvo services one-way per day, not to mention the innumerable private operators. These numbers generally spike up over the weekends, of course.

Chennai-HYD dynamic is slightly different simply because of the distance. So the number of daily commuters are obviously lesser. However, the flight statistics show there is a good base to build upon. There are 3 dedicated daily trains between these two cities, and many train passengers would opt for a faster option if available. The sweet spot on this route is between the 2AC IR fare and air fare. Throw in a Tirupati or Vijayawada/Guntur as mid-way point, it becomes a sure-shot option.

The problem as I see it is BLR-HYD. While the demand between the cities is very good (1 lakh one-way pax per month according to DCGA), as of now, there are no mid-way points to generate additional revenue. Cities like Ananthapur or Kurnool are not big economic engines to drive a lot of traffic. But they could grow as exurbs for these cities, with 1-2 hr commute one-way.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Bart S » 24 Nov 2018 19:58

Prasad wrote:
nam wrote:
How many people travel on a regular basis (3-4 times per week), that reducing time will help? Creating a HSR for people travelling on weekends is not really a economically viable solution.

My view HSR line should be between two economic centers or economic center + living center, not more than 1 hr travel or even less. This will allow people to use HSR on a daily basis and still live 100-200 KM from the economic center.

The madras-blr highway is packed most of the times. As are the trains. There are something like 25 trains daily that run direct. And more that run through madras to blr.


Not only is the highway packed, but getting in and out of the city proper takes easily 2 hours at each end unless you time it so that you leave and arrive at a very early or very late hour. Air travel too has the same problem (at least at the BLR end) in addition to the time spent on check-in and security. HSR eliminates much of that and is much more comfortable.

arshyam wrote:
Chennai-HYD dynamic is slightly different simply because of the distance. So the number of daily commuters are obviously lesser. However, the flight statistics show there is a good base to build upon. There are 3 dedicated daily trains between these two cities, and many train passengers would opt for a faster option if available. The sweet spot on this route is between the 2AC IR fare and air fare. Throw in a Tirupati or Vijayawada/Guntur as mid-way point, it becomes a sure-shot option.

The problem as I see it is BLR-HYD. While the demand between the cities is very good (1 lakh one-way pax per month according to DCGA), as of now, there are no mid-way points to generate additional revenue. Cities like Ananthapur or Kurnool are not big economic engines to drive a lot of traffic. But they could grow as exurbs for these cities, with 1-2 hr commute one-way.


Any plan needs to factor in Vijaywada/New capital as well. There should be a quadrangular connectivity between the 4 capitals ideally.

Also should look into Blr - Mysore - Coimbatore route and Coimbatore - Chennai perhaps touching Salem etc as well as the next expansion of the above.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kakkaji » 24 Nov 2018 20:25

Bart S wrote:
Prasad wrote:Also should look into Blr - Mysore - Coimbatore route and Coimbatore - Chennai perhaps touching Salem etc as well as the next expansion of the above.


Semi-HSR (200kmph) apparently costs half as much as HSR (>300kmph), and could be ideal for these intercity connections.

Each of the four zonal clusters I have listed above cover geographical areas as large as France or Germany, where fast intercity trains are the primary connections for passengers, not aircraft/ roads like the US.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arvin » 24 Nov 2018 21:27

arshyam wrote:...
The problem as I see it is BLR-HYD. While the demand between the cities is very good (1 lakh one-way pax per month according to DCGA), as of now, there are no mid-way points to generate additional revenue. Cities like Ananthapur or Kurnool are not big economic engines to drive a lot of traffic. But they could grow as exurbs for these cities, with 1-2 hr commute one-way.


Correct. There is no major city or major industrial zones between them. People dont commute as they do like mumbai to vapi or surat and vice versa on a daily basis. So doubt the viability of HSR. Good for nice 3AC sleeper overnite journey. The connection was also single line till recently. Another reason for non development of major cities.
Hyderabad - Nagpur HSR feasibility is being done by Russians. Distance is like 575 km, sweet spot of HSR.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 24 Nov 2018 21:45

quadrupling of trunk lines must be given priority for pervasive semi hsr viability

Foreigners want to push their own product for hsr bevause semi hsr we can do most of it ourselves not much room to make money

Tejas vs imports

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 24 Nov 2018 21:55

It should be a hub of HSR and spoke of semi-HSR. Sufficient to cover all of India. No need to spend too much trying to connect every city with HSR. Diamond quad should be sufficient.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 24 Nov 2018 21:58

We need bypass lines at station to prevent scary through trains blasting past

https://youtu.be/A7W917FIjP4

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 25 Nov 2018 00:44

sooraj wrote:Why This Train Is The Envy Of The World: The Shinkansen Story

Shinji Sogo was their Sreedharan, doing everything he could to get the first Shinkansen built before the 1964 Tokyo Olympics. There's a memorial to him at one of the platforms of Tokyo Station, the terminus of the Tokaido Shinkansen line.

As for station location, not all Shinkansen stations are optimally situated. A clear example is the Shin-Osaka (New Osaka) station on the other end of the Tokaido line - due to engineering challenges it's located a few kms away from Osaka's major downtown stations like Umeda and Namba. However it is well connected with a subway line, cabs and buses.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 25 Nov 2018 03:55

New n700s trainset has been rolled out before tokyo 2020 og

They know tourists will take joyrides

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 25 Nov 2018 08:09

The N700S is an incremental update over the N700. The Chuo Shinkansen is the real shakinaw update, but it's not going to be ready in 2 years.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 25 Nov 2018 15:51

that one seems like a long term project looking at maglev costs. 500km maglev line is unheard of so far.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 25 Nov 2018 16:49

Chuo Shinkansen (Maglev) is already under construction. The link between Tokyo (Shinagawa) and Nagoya is scheduled to be commissioned by 2027 and to Osaka only by 2045!!!

And we crib about the slow pace of IR projects!

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 25 Nov 2018 17:10

It's old news.

Sorry if it has been posted before.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoLMGVNJ8uc

Indian Railways builds a subway in a record time of less than 5 hours



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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 25 Nov 2018 18:04

With hyperloop in the market, I think maglev will see very few takers.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 25 Nov 2018 22:18

In cab view:



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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 25 Nov 2018 22:25

Cabin sounds very noise insulated. Divers should be feeling less fatigued at the end of the journey. Panels are very well laid out as well.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 26 Nov 2018 02:26

Karthik S wrote:With hyperloop in the market, I think maglev will see very few takers.

While the Chuo Shinkansen itself is likely to be an expensive niche route , I don’t think hyperloop can sustain the kind of passenger/hr requirement on the Tokaido line (Tokyo-Osaka) . Each bullet train on that route is a 16 car train with 1000+ passengers, with peak time departures every 10 mins . Kashi will have more specific numbers.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby ks_sachin » 26 Nov 2018 02:56

arvin wrote:
arshyam wrote:...

Hyderabad - Nagpur HSR feasibility is being done by Russians.


Since when did the Russian become good at rail?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 26 Nov 2018 03:00

If T18 can maintain that kind of "throughput" with a inter train gap of less than 10 mins, it will revolutionize intercity travel. I sure hope they are planning proximity warning radars and similar stuff already even for larger gaps, given the speeds. Havent heard much on those safety aspects recently.

Oh wait....
https://mobile.twitter.com/SCRailwayInd ... 5717521408

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 26 Nov 2018 17:16

https://www.financialexpress.com/infras ... 9/1394206/

First two ppp next gen stations to come online soon

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 26 Nov 2018 17:16

https://www.financialexpress.com/infras ... 9/1394206/

First two ppp next gen stations to come online soon

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 26 Nov 2018 17:19

Seems to me these two projects will be flagged off

With atleast 66 more to follow

Will take some years to complete

Ddm is saying it like jan19 complete

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 26 Nov 2018 17:37

Train18 has completed 115kmph trials and will move to kota division for 160kmph trials on ndls-mum rajdhani route.
Once done the rdso will provide its report. By mid december the trials will complete
https://youtu.be/745mzdbFOdM

—-

Indian Railways officials told Financial Express Online that the Railway Board is now working on plan to manufacture the sleeper-class version of Train 18 for Rajdhani Express routes.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 26 Nov 2018 19:56

Isn't 180 kmph test planned? That's what Talgo could do.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 26 Nov 2018 20:21

Yep, thats the last test.

Unless of course they want to push it.... :)

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 28 Nov 2018 22:58

the fabled hill section of guwahati - silchar BG - 2 + 2 WDP3 used ...
worth a good watch with sound



there are atleast 20 tunnels on that route. the famous Jatinga river of bird mystery fame .... and awesome scenery

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 28 Nov 2018 22:59

A Nandy wrote:Yep, thats the last test.

Unless of course they want to push it.... :)


I dont think 180 is on the cards. they will test @ 160 which is the target speed and call it a day. train18 is heavier than Talgo due to steel construction.
the talgo thing was a 9 coach train and coaches low to the ground...

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 28 Nov 2018 23:07

now that BG lines are pushing into NE capitals and air services much improved, the hotel and tour industry will pick up , and be able to cater to lot more higher paying tourists. stuff like std of hotels and inter city taxis and buses will improve in sync.

there are already 2 five* hotels in guwahati and plenty more 4-3*

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Nikhil T » 29 Nov 2018 00:27

ks_sachin wrote:
arvin wrote:


Since when did the Russian become good at rail?


I've never understood why we partner with different countries on similar projects. Each country will push their own tech and we'll end up with a rainbow of equipment to operate and maintain. Instead, China standardizes on a tech and churns out production.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 29 Nov 2018 01:08

Train 21

https://enbulletin.com/2018/11/27/train ... s-commute/

Mani, who was at the National Academy of Indian Railways, said that the first rake is expected to run on Delhi-Bhopal route,”

“In 2019-20, we will make four more rakes and more services will be introduced. We are geared up to make it in large numbers from 2021 onwards and we hoping it to be a great success story,” he said.

ICF also had plans to launch Train 20 following world-wide trend of aluminium coaches but its plans have now shifted to Train 21.

“With Train 18, we have reached 85-90 % of world standards. If we want to go with world standards, we should go for aluminium body coaches for the areas of exterior finish and other safety features. But these capabilities do not exist at present,” he said.

“Somebody has to invest money in making aluminium body sections. Therefore, we have to find an international partner through tendering process. Initially, they will make two to three rakes and the balance will be made in ICF under their supervision so that eventually ICF itself starts making aluminium body train sets of world standards,” he said.

“Since international companies take three years, we had envisaged that we will be able to make it in three years after placing order. But in the first tendering there were some issues. We have corrected them and send it to the Railway Board which is reviewing the matter. When the board permits, we will go for bidding. Hence, we might have to rename it as Train 21,” he said.

“As compared to coaches made from stainless steel, the coaches made from aluminium has advantages of aesthetics, low maintenance and longevity,” he added.


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