Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3305
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Vips » 21 Jan 2021 19:51

suryag wrote:
The Chenab Bridge seems to have about 75feet to go, feel it will be done in the next 6-8 months(cant marvel enough) latest video here



This just the Arch part after it is done the structure above the Arch will take atleast one more year to be completed and then would begin the testing of the entire stretch which would be at least 2-3 months long. Expected date of completion is not before Aug 2022 at the earliest and may even miss that for commercial operations to start in Dec 2022

suryag wrote:
The Anji Khad bridge seems to be the only big one left now, latest video here, looks like quite a lot of work left


This one is scheduled to be completed by June 2022 per the contracting company building it.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 14115
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 21 Jan 2021 21:32

Welcome back, vsunder! You were missed here.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 8133
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sachin » 21 Jan 2021 22:13

vsunder wrote:Thus the era of the guard, last vans and caboose is on the way out.

As per my understanding the role of a Passenger Guard & Experess/Mail Guard still remains. Because they do have some 'administrative duties' (and authority) to do. In these trains the guard is like the 'captain of the ship', with drivers actually driving the train under his/her directions. But earlier; every Guard began his career by starting as a 'Goods Guard' a job most boring and at times very risky.

452.9375 MhZ front to back
457.9375 MhZ back to front

That is interesting. It is on the UHF range, and may be HAMs (who are also rail fans) can try to decode these messages.

Another area which IR can focus is on having centralised train control centers. This has been done in big cities like Chennai & Mumbai, but can be tried out on other stretches too. The current practise of a section controller giving instructions to every station master in his section on how a train should be handled is adding to the delays. I have also seen that in some stations IR has started introducing the Intermediate Block Signalling concepts, by which posting of station masters etc in very small stations can be avoided.

A Nandy
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 483
Joined: 06 Sep 2009 23:39

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 21 Jan 2021 22:14

Yes, now that the head locomotive is attached, this thread will gather much needed speed :D

Railway infra moving ahead at unheard of speeds...

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 14128.html
L&T arm to bag ₹3,338 crore rail project connecting Rishikesh, Karnaprayag
The project, which is being executed by state-owned Rail Vikas Nigam Ltd will provide rail link connectivity between Rishikesh and Karanprayag and ease access to pilgrimage centre in Uttarakhand
The scope of the engineering and construction project includes completing tunnel work, construction shaft and ancillary works in Uttarakhand


https://twitter.com/ukshahi/status/1347212813182267395
The Modi Govt had begun the strategic ₹16,200 Cr Rishikesh - Karnaprayag Railway Line in 2018.
The 125 km route will have 16 bridges & will be 85% inside tunnels.
India's longest tunnel (15.1km) will be built too.
L&T is lowest bidder for another section.


Another one from the above thread:
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/del ... 70028.html
Delhi - Varanasi bullet train project: LiDAR(Aerial Ground) survey starts
The proposed plan for Delhi-Varanasi High Speed Rail corridor will connect the National Capital Territory (NCT) of Delhi with major cities like Mathura, Agra, Etawah, Lucknow, Raebareli, Prayagraj, Bhadohi, Varanasi and Ayodhya

Uttam
BRFite
Posts: 394
Joined: 15 Apr 2003 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Uttam » 22 Jan 2021 01:42

@vsunder: Thanks for enlightening us with development in Indian Railway.

I have been trying to find information about the Sonnagar - Dankuni section of Eastern DFC. It is supposed to be on a PPP model. There hasn't been any progress it seems. Without that section, the effectiveness of EDFC will be very limited. Any member, please point me in the right direction.

AkshaySG
BRFite
Posts: 120
Joined: 30 Jul 2020 08:51

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby AkshaySG » 22 Jan 2021 02:03

L&T has built more infrastructure for India in the past 10 years than some government/public firms have done in the last 50 .

Shows you just how much progress we can make if we have players like L&T in every industry , Hoping we can show the same improvement in MIC with private players being awarded more contracts over old and crummy OFB's and state owned shipyards

rajkumar
BRFite
Posts: 211
Joined: 22 Sep 2000 11:31
Location: London U.K
Contact:

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby rajkumar » 22 Jan 2021 15:44

Train 18 Contact Awarded To Hyderabad based Medha Servo Drives

Last edited by Suraj on 22 Jan 2021 23:29, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed youtube link

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 873
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Mollick.R » 22 Jan 2021 16:34

Medha group gets Rs 2,211 crore tender for making 44 Vande Bharat trains
SHINE JACOB JANUARY 22, 2021 / 03:12 PM IST

In a boost to Make in India initiative in the railways sector, the Indian Railways has awarded a Rs 2,211 crore mega tender for procurement of Vande Bharat Express or Train 18 to Hyderabad-based Medha Servo Drives Pvt. Ltd.
.
.
.

These trains will be manufactured at three production units of the Indian Railways – 24 rakes at the Integral Coach Factory (ICF) in Chennai, 10 rakes at Rail Coach Factory in Kapurthala and remaining 10 rakes at Modern Coach Factory in Raebareli. Medha Servo Drives will manufacture and supply 44 train sets. The procurement includes five years of comprehensive annual maintenance contract with the supplier.


read Full Article at// Money Control . com
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/medha-group-gets-rs-2211-crore-tender-for-making-44-vande-bharat-trains-6384031.html

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 873
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Mollick.R » 22 Jan 2021 16:43

Mollick.R wrote:
A Nandy wrote:https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/indian-railways-drafts-in-three-production-companies-to-speed-up-manufacturing-of-vande-bharat-trains



Maybe I'm going tangent, but I think MAY BE A PORTION OF delay in further production in Train-18 sets is due to commercial interest (fighting) of various manufacturing units also. Let me write it pointwise :-

1. Success of Train-18 opens door as it being future cash cow for the concern manufacturing unit (here ICF Chennai). Plus glory of exclusive manufacturing unit producing most advanced train sets of India.

2. powerful people (Union leaders, Politicians etc) from RCF Kapurthala & MCF Rae Bareilly may have lobbied hard to get their share of Buzzziness and Glory.

3. Now production 44 trains sets will be distributed among 3 units, assuming equal participation that is 15 Train sets per manufacturing unit.

4. This is typical Indian defence manufacturing kind of scenario. Only 1 destroyer of this class, 2 frigates of that class blah blah blah at different shipyards. Losing out economies of scale.

5. How will 3 different manufacturing units make money out of so little order at hand (15 train sets for each) for the huge human (training of manpower, quality , SOP etc development) & machine capital (mostly new sets of T&P required) they gonna invest ? :?: :?:


https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7141&p=2451521&hilit=ICF#p2451521

So, ultimately my (-ve)predication came true.............

how do all 3 rail coach manufacturing units achieve economics of scale with such low number of Train sets going to each one of them :cry: :cry: :-? :-? :roll:

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 873
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Mollick.R » 22 Jan 2021 16:51

Image

44 train sets of 16 cars each
Thus (44x16= 704 cars total) for 2221 cr order...........
3 sets of Men, Tooling Infra etc needs to developed...........

A Nandy
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 483
Joined: 06 Sep 2009 23:39

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 22 Jan 2021 17:47

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/rai ... 18443.html

The procurement includes five years of a comprehensive annual maintenance contract with the supplier.

This project will be completed under the 'Make in India' policy with domestic content of 90 per cent, it added.

"The contract is worth around ₹2,211 crore and has been awarded to the Medha Servo Drives Pvt. Ltd, Hyderabad," a spokesperson said.

According to the railway officials, train sets shall be manufactured at the Integral Coach Factory, Chennai; Rail Coach Factory in Kapurthala, Punjab; and the Modern Coach Factory in Raebareli, Uttar Pradesh.

The delivery schedule for the supply of these rakes is – first 2 prototype rakes will be delivered in 20 months, thereafter on successful commissioning, the firm will be delivering an average of 6 rakes per quarter


So a little bit of cake to everyone.

durairaaj
BRFite
Posts: 111
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby durairaaj » 22 Jan 2021 19:09

Mollick.R wrote:Image
......

Its no wonder, after the CEO changes, everything falls into its place.
Suneet Sharma replaces V K Yadav as new Chairman & CEO of Railway Board
It appears the previous CEO was the reason for all of the delays and drama.

In few months, we can expect withdrawal of fake corruption charges filed on senior people, who made possible train-18 a reality.

Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3305
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Vips » 22 Jan 2021 19:27

One positive from the cancellation and delay of the earlier tender is that the indigenous parts component has grown from 50% to 75% in the new tender terms.

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 22 Jan 2021 19:51

DFC is using "two phase" 2x25 KV traction for superior tractive effort. Rest of IR is single phase 25KV. The single phase also forces IR to run EOG diesel power generation units on passenger trains. This is because the climate control equipment ACs etc on passenger coaches use 3-phase 415V power. Passenger trains hauled by Locos like WAP-4 that do not have HOG(head on generation) are thus forced to use diesel powered EOG(end on generation units). I had explained long ago how 3 -phase is manufactured from 1 phase by actually converting AC to DC by power rectifiers and then to 3-phase AC by inverters and filters to remove harmonics and sent to coaches at 750V 3 -phase. Transformers in individual coaches convert 750V 3 phase to 415V 3 phase and 110V single phase for lights and phone charging outlets.

OHE equipment on IR in the main is legacy design from 1960s SNCF(Societe Nacional Chemin de Fer the French system). 2x25KV was tried earlier in the 1990s by IR on the heavy haul Bina to Katni section. 2x25 kv uses auto-transformers with variable tap and other novelties.
The links below explain the schematics of 2x25KV.

https://youtu.be/Wv5Zd8a1G28


IR had tried 2x25 KV on the heavy haul section Bina Jn to Katni a while back but even though it gives superior tractive effort it was not implemented system wide so see this innovation. It is easier to have single phase as just one contact wire.


https://hsr.ca.gov/docs/programs/eir_me ... 1_1R02.pdf


Seems IRCON implemented 2x25KV between Bina-Katni-Annuppur

https://www.ircon.org/pdf/pdfnew/BINA-KATNI-ANUPPUR.pdf


Naively the feeder line is 180 degrees out of phase in 2X25 KV systems and the centre tap of the transformer is the return. This is the short answer. It provides for better tractive power and improved load factor as more locos can run. A better answer with the schematics of the wiring and the taps of the transformers and what are are called autotransformers that we see in the videos made by Siddharth are to be found in the article on IRFCA that I link below for 2X25KV systems


https://www.irfca.org/faq/faq-elec2.html


Auto transformers seem to have the ability of changing the tap ratio in an appropriate way to maintain 25KV without voltage drops. In standard OHE the voltage drop can be almost 5KV or more at the extreme end of the feed. 2X25KV systems also allow for bigger distances between TSS units. DFC traction substations are all equipped with auto transformers.

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 22 Jan 2021 22:20

Link between North and South India completed.

With CRS inspection and commissioning of 23km of re-gauging and simultaneously OHE electrification work of Lamta-Samnapur section between Jabalpur and Gondia, Modi Govt. has completed a project which it identified as critical. When the Govt. came to power it decided to convert the entire Satpura Narrow gauge network to Broad gauge and simultaneously electrify it. The spine of the Narrow gauge line was Jabalpur to Gondia(on the Howrah---Mumbai line via Nagpur). This was taken up first and also the branch line on it Nainpur--Chiraidongri--Mandla Fort. All has been re-gauged and commissioned.
This is through a tribal belt and ore and coal now will move on it. Distance from Patna, Prayagraj, Gorakhpur, Varanasi(and other points in Northeast and Lucknow area) to Chennai, Hyderabad, Bangalore is reduced by 260km and 5-6 hours now that Jabalpur to Gondia is operational. From Gondia the line connects to Balharshah via Naghbir(where neolithic menhirs can be found) single line and electrified. More importantly the bottleneck at Itarsi is now bypassed by the opening of this new route. Trains to South India from Prayagraj, Varanasi, Patna do not have to travel to Itarsi anymore. From Jabalpur to Gondia and then on to Balharshah and all points South in Telengana, AP, TN, KL and KA with a 5-6 hour savings in time.

A branch line Nainpur--Seoni(Mowgli lives here)---Chindwara is under re-gauging and electrification, but Nagpur to Chindwara has been re-gauged and electrified as part of this process. So the old narrow gauge Satpura railway is now history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF-J7wQlPMY

A Nandy
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 483
Joined: 06 Sep 2009 23:39

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 22 Jan 2021 22:24

https://www.railpost.in/indian-railways ... -supplier/

However, inter-departmental feuds led to very public controversies and media leaks aimed at discrediting the design. Differences on overhead cabling and other issues turned into squabbles that were not sorted out by top officials.

To compete with the trainset concept, the Push-Pull concept was also proposed by one of the feuding departments. Several premium trains were expected to be switched to Push-Pull. However, only one train continues to run with this configuration today, with doubts being raised on the operational feasibility of having one loco at each end of a conventional rake.

Vigilance cases were also filed against officials leading the project. These cases were quietly withdrawn in 2020. It is not clear if any disciplinary action was taken against any party in the matter.

However, the damage was done. 640 coaches (40 trainsets) were to be built by the end of FY 2022. Only two prototypes were built before Indian Railways shelved the plans and decided to call for a fresh tender.

Bids were invited in December 2019, after months of delays. However, the process was again scuttled in August 2020, allegedly because of improperly submitted documents. Fresh bids were invited in September 2020, resulting in the contract finally being awarded to Medha Servo Drives, the original vendor of propulsion equipment for the two prototypes.

vimal
BRFite
Posts: 875
Joined: 27 Jul 2017 10:32

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vimal » 22 Jan 2021 22:36

^^ So entire project was sabotaged by insiders. Another roadblock enroute to atam nirbhar bharat. Why is it so easy to do this over and over in India with zero consequences.

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 22 Jan 2021 22:38

In 2008 UPA Govt. made a a grandiloquent announcement of gauge conversion of Bodinayakur to Madurai Metre gauge track. Bodi is the cardamom capital of the world at the foothills of the Western Ghat and Teni( a district HQ) also lies on this line about 10km from Bodi the terminus. Line was put in by Angrez to evacuate cardamom and forest products to Chennai port. Well UPA ripped up the tracks and did bugger all. For 12 years people were at the mercy of unscrupulous truck operators who were over charging them and in addition the loss of connectivity froma district HQ to Chennai was felt. Rail illa became a standard complaint.

After 2014, the new Govt. set aside money for gauge conversion to proceed. The first step was Madurai to Usilampatti and then very recently Usilampatti to Andipatti which needed explosive charges to widen a pass for BG. Now next is a 10km section where track linking is complete to Teni the distt HQ which is scheduled for commissioning in April. From Teni to Bodi a 12 km distance there is no money sanctioned in last years budget, but hope is for this years budget will see allotment.

Jan 2020 Madurai to Usilampatti CRS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQPkdaFg0H4

16 Dec 2020 CRS Usilampatti to Andipatti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sl7zRguc30

The number of new Electric loco sheds being built is a quite a lot. Sleepy zones like NER is adding many of them. At Varanasi and Kasganj and even CR is building a new one at Daund for the new lines under wires, Chennai to Mumbai, Solapur to Gadag, and Kurduwadi to Miraj will be all under wires by the end of this year. In NER in Terai region, Mathura to Kasganj--Bareilly---Pilibhit and Tanakapur(Terai). Lucknow to Sitapur---Mailani, Burwhal to Sitapur to Roza and Kanpur to Farrukhabad--Kanauj--Kasganj---Bareilly and a lot of lines on the north bank of Ganga in NER territory will be under wires soon or already under wires. All this needs infra to service e-locos. SWR is also seeing its diesel lines evaporate. That needs a separate and very long post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_DtjWVmdcY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpT-AwQPHrs

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 22 Jan 2021 22:45

Medha Servomotors has installed a TCAS on the level of ETCS-2 which is under trials on SCR between Umri and Sivungaon sections on the Mudkhed to Secunderabad section 21 km. The Modi Govt forced IR to abandon obtaining ETCS-2 systems from abroad and search for solutions inside India. ETCS-1 has been installed on DFC and on certain suburban lines like Arakonnam---Basin Bridge on the Chennai suburban section where Thales group installed these systems. The Indian made TCAS system made by Medha features in cab signalling and other features related to SPAD(signal passing at Danger). The installed system has been performing well and may be implemented system wide.


https://www.railpost.in/tcas-commission ... hed-route/

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 22 Jan 2021 23:04

Third Line Progress on Trunk routes

Kavali to Nellore on the Chennai to Howrah/Delhi/Hyderabad line. Solid progress with track linking now taking place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB3QQOJQn6Q

Bridge in Nellore over River Penna also completed with space for a fourth line in future

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1e-FnBQa6k

In addition in the Center, Bhopal to Habibganj(Bhopal) 6km is finally third lined. Beyond Habibganj to Barkhera is third lined and commissioned a few days ago. Between Barkhera and Budni 25 km, 5 tunnels the longest is 1085m are being constructed. Budni to Itarsi with a new bridge over Narmada at Hoshangabad is third lined already. Barkheda to Budni in parts passes through Ratapani tiger preserve and the new third line has many animal passes and also ponds have been built with check dams so that animals can have water in dry summer months. New third line is rated for 100 kmph initially though trials were done at 125 kmph.
So entire route Bina Jn---Bhopal(already third lined)-----Itarsi 235 km entirely on WCR in the heart of the network carrying Delhi to Chennai/Hyderabad/Bangalore/Mumbai traffic will be third lined by early next year when track liking will be finished. Tunnel work is close to being completed. Habibganj will see the new railway station with airport amenities like at Gandhinagar. This is close to being commissioned in 6 months. This is a very congested section with major defence establishments at Babina(Armoured Corps), Bhopal(Sudershan Corps) and other establishments in Jhansi and so on. Jhansi to Bina is under third line process and so is Jhansi to Gwalior--Agra --Mathura making Delhi to Chennai third line. The entire Chennai to Delhi route is getting third lines. and I have shown two sections.

Rishi_Tri
BRFite
Posts: 505
Joined: 13 Feb 2017 14:49

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Rishi_Tri » 22 Jan 2021 23:04

Vande Bharat Express - 44 Train Set Contract Award



^^Interview with Sudhanshu Mani, Former GM, ICF. Some points:

-Pantograph, Transformer, Convertor, Traction Motor, Control System, Lighting, Passenger Information System, Bogie, AC, Coach - to be done by Medha.
-22 months til first Train Sets roll out
-Modifications proposed in the original design of Train 18
-Shall require testing for 3-4 months at least
-The roll out time frame of Train Sets should be reduced from 22 months to 16 or lesser as redesign work is not much

In any case, this tender breaks the stangle hold of Global Transportation Multi Nationals on Indian Railways - Alstom, ABB (Locomotives), LHB, Others (Coaches). No wonder all the events took place that took place.

India should become the global hub for high performing affordable Train Sets for the Globe.

True Atma Nirbhar Bharat!

Vande Mataram

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8293
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Indranil » 22 Jan 2021 23:06

durairaaj wrote:
Mollick.R wrote:Image
......

It appears the previous CEO was the reason for all of the delays and drama.

In few months, we can expect withdrawal of fake corruption charges filed on senior people, who made possible train-18 a reality.

Withdrawal of corruption charge is not enough. Those responsible to cause this pain, time and financial loss must be held accountable for such.

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 23 Jan 2021 02:56

There seems to be no news at all about two more tunnels on WDFC. Vasai detour (the old Portuguese Bassein) North tunnel 320m and Vasai detour south tunnel 430m. JICA the funding agency for WDFC is very strict with displacement of population and such things(ditto for High speed rail Mumbai to Ahmedabad, the Japanese are very concerned with environmental impact with all projects they fund and make sure the DPR does a thorough assessment). These detour tunnels became part of the plan for WDFC to cut across Vasai and make the final leg to JNPT due to environmental impact reasons. IR wanted tracks above ground. But JICA objected. Of course these tunnels like the Sohna tunnel will be constructed to carry double stacked container. In very bad news Uddhav Thackeray Govt. has screwed up WDFC at the JNPT end. 3000 people have to be compensated for land and these have no titles to the land. That is they are land encroachers, etc etc. There is no rule to pay them off and dispense with them. Rules call for clear title. The process in this case is that the State govt has to step in but that is not going to happen. I had warned 2-3 years ago that Fadnavis is too slow with LA and this lethargy would come and bite the BJP in their collective rear ends and so it happened.


The second issue that was a cause of concern to me due to land acquisition issues, is the last Rail over rail flyover on EDFC on the part between Khurja and Son Nagar over the Howrah--Delhi Grand Chord. This rail over rail over flyover is located just after Ganj Khwaja the first station on the Grand Chord after Mughalsarai and traveling towards Howrah. The EDFC moves from north of IR tracks before Ganj Khwaja(which are triple lined here) to South and continues South of IR tracks(preparatory to bypassing Mughalsarai and more importantly completely avoiding that massive yard) through Kanpur(Bhaupur) all the way to Khurja, except making a small loop near Etawah to the north and back where two Rail over rail flyovers were completed a few months ago(videos of the spans of one of the Etawah flyovers being put in place are on Youtube) for the Khurja-Bhaupur/Kanpur section. The Ganj Khwaja flyover is the third rail over rail flyover over the Howrah--Delhi mainline. There are other rail over rail flyovers of the EDFC over branch lines, one over the Agra--Tundla line, one over the Mathura--Kasganj line at Hathras, one over the Etawah--Mainpuri line at Etawah and some more in Punjab, some of which are


1. Over Sirhind---Morinda line


2. Two flyovers over Ludhiana---Delhi mainline to bypass Sirhind Jn.


3. One over Rajpura to Patiala line


4. One over Kurukshetra --Ambala doubled line, the mainline Amritsar to Delhi.


5 rail over rail flyovers are to be constructed in Punjab. The first one they have installed the girders and the second one I believe they were twitter shots of one of the two being finished. Others I do not know.


Other rail over rail flyovers


5. Saharanpur over the Saharanpur---Shamli---Delhi line


6. Just after Meerut towards Ghaziabad, over the Ghaziabad---Meerut IR double line and then line goes straight to Khurja and


7. Hops over existing IR mainline Delhi-Kanpur tracks at Khurja by another rail over rail flyover and on to Hathras.


So 8 rail over rail flyovers in all in the Khurja to Ludhiana/Sahnewal section.


In the attached drone shots you can follow the drone over the Ganj Khwaja rail over rail flyover moving towards Mughalsarai over the Grand Chord. After the under construction flyover over IR triple tracks you can see GanjKhwaja station on the right where major electronic equipment has been just installed to allow trains from EDFC to to go to IR and vice versa. DFC stations are not in general co-located with IR stations and DFC stations are about 40 km apart. Few of the DFC stations have cross overs to IR. GanjKhwaja is one of them. EDFC will not enter Mughalsarai yard but will go south of Mughalsarai and there is a new DFC station New Mughalsarai. Then it will start running parallel to IR tracks near Jeonathpur between Mughalsarai and Prayagraj. Jeonathpur will become a major intermodal hub. A short spur line has been constructed to connect Jeonathpur to the new Inland water terminal on Ganga IW-1 at Varanasi/Jeonathpur terminus of barge traffic from Farakka. NH-7 and other major highways cross at Jeonathpur and are being upgraded and now EDFC and IR tracks.


In the drone images you can see some buildings still obstructing the right of way and the pillars of the rail flyover. This video is June 2020, hope they have sorted out this LA issue.

https://youtu.be/dHDIubbQDq0


I had mentioned this Ganj Khawaja RoR flyover on this thread 4 years ago when there was empty fields here then, now you can see the obstructing houses.

Here is the twitter announcement of the commissioning of the new electronic panel at GanjKhwaja to facilitate switch over IR and EDFC. The purpose is to avoid Mughalsarai and just go on the periphery with its own complex of container and logistic yards.


https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1276087806230556673


The two other major rail over rail flyover that is to be constructed between Khurja and Son Nagar besides the one above ^^^ at Ganj Khwaja is soon after the Yamuna bridge at Prayagraj. EDFC hops over the Prayagraj ---Jabalpur double electrified line and also has a DFC station in that area to help connect DFC to this Jabalpur line. Cement from Satna and ore/steel(Bhilai,Rourkela) from mines in Katni--Bilaspur area will come down the tracks and hop onto the EDFC at this DFC station.


The second major rail over rail flyover is outside Kanpur at Bhimsen Jn., where EDFC jumps over the Kanpur--Jhansi tracks. There is a connection with IR here as freight will move between EDFC and Kanpur---Jhansi section and coal from Dhanbad belt to Parichha thermal station outside Jhansi between JHS and Kanpur.


Here is a drone shot of the newly commissioned Bhaupur to Khurja section. The height of the embankments is quite stunning. Since DFC has no level crossings, making high embankments allows RUBS to be level with the landscape and thus prevent water collecting during rains in the RUBS. Most of the RUBS that were built on EDFC by digging in have tin roofs at the approach to keep rainwater out.

https://youtu.be/FfszcrFGagU
Last edited by vsunder on 23 Jan 2021 03:32, edited 1 time in total.

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 23 Jan 2021 03:16

Information about bridge over River Tons is also sparse(Tamsa of the Ramayana where Rama halted with the citizens of Ayodhya before sending them all back, it is one of the few rivers that joins Ganga about here at the right bank of Ganga and has its origins in the Chhotta Nagpur hills. A big Geology lesson is also coming in a few posts it is connected to IR, and dinosaurs and their extinction) Piers seem constructed but cannot see spans yet. Same for bridge at Surat over Tapti on WDFC, not much news. Bharuch bridge over Narmada pics are there since it parallels bridge for the being built Mumbai--Delhi expressway:

EDFC bridge on River Tamasa: Piers seen but no spans yet:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/25%C2 ... 82.0387047


Abutments of the rail over rail flyover of EDFC over the Prayagraj to Jabalpur line. Here there will be a major junction with IR allowing traffic from Satna(cement), steel from Rourkela--Bhilai--Bilaspur---Katni to reach here and jump onto EDFC

https://www.google.com/maps/place/25%C2 ... 81.8406396

rahulm
BRFite
Posts: 1140
Joined: 19 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby rahulm » 23 Jan 2021 03:48

Train 18 Handbook by RDSO. It's a treasure trove for aficionados Some times, the link times out. Just re-try.

bharathp
BRFite
Posts: 153
Joined: 24 Jul 2017 03:44

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby bharathp » 23 Jan 2021 11:00

not sure the aunthenticity yet. but looks like one more record of sorts by the DFC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmbbsmuROnY

3.5 km long train

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 24 Jan 2021 00:09

^^^ High class chicanery and total ullu banoing by SECR and Ministry of Railways aided by that acolyte Siddharth. This can only happen since no passenger trains are running. Once passenger trains run Naag, Lizard of Mongolia, Saap etc etc will all die a natural death and since 99% of the population is brain dead all will be quickly forgotten.

First remember IR fright[sic] trains are 800m long. When a Rajhdhani say passes them they are looped at wayside stations. Freight travels at max. speed of 40kmph while express at 110 kmph. If part of the freight sticks beyond the fouling point it will protrude into the mainline and there will be a huge accident. Imagine a Rajdhani following this Lizard of Mongolia, and trying to overtake the Lizard which is traveling at 40kmph, which wayside station has a loop line to comfortably accommodate a rake >800m safely on IR, answer Babaji ka thulla. So when there is no passenger trains on IR the Lizard can run continuously on the mainline without ever getting looped and all and sundry can be ullu banoed.

A Nandy
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 483
Joined: 06 Sep 2009 23:39

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 24 Jan 2021 01:20

:D

So are such long trains possible in the DFC? I wonder whats the advantage of having such long rakes at all though.

There seems to be some plans for longer loop lines:
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/ind ... 79606.html
With the increasing need to handle more number of trains with higher average speeds, Indian Railways has been encouraging the construction of Longer Loop lines of around 1500 meters (which is double than the existing loop line lengths).

bharathp
BRFite
Posts: 153
Joined: 24 Jul 2017 03:44

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby bharathp » 24 Jan 2021 02:36

vsunder wrote:^^^ High class chicanery and total ullu banoing by SECR and Ministry of Railways aided by that acolyte Siddharth. This can only happen since no passenger trains are running. Once passenger trains run Naag, Lizard of Mongolia, Saap etc etc will all die a natural death and since 99% of the population is brain dead all will be quickly forgotten.

First remember IR fright[sic] trains are 800m long. When a Rajhdhani say passes them they are looped at wayside stations. Freight travels at max. speed of 40kmph while express at 110 kmph. If part of the freight sticks beyond the fouling point it will protrude into the mainline and there will be a huge accident. Imagine a Rajdhani following this Lizard of Mongolia, and trying to overtake the Lizard which is traveling at 40kmph, which wayside station has a loop line to comfortably accommodate a rake >800m safely on IR, answer Babaji ka thulla. So when there is no passenger trains on IR the Lizard can run continuously on the mainline without ever getting looped and all and sundry can be ullu banoed.

thank you for such detailed explanation.
and as the other poster suggested - will this be possible on DFCs? since there wont be any passenger traffic?

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 24 Jan 2021 02:48

No can do on DFCs either as part of routine and safe operations. If you want gimmicks then one can do on DFC also. As per my understanding loop lines on DFC have been designed for 1500m or a bit more, double the length of IR rakes. Any rake longer than that poses a safety hazard and will extend into the through line. DFC rakes are 13,000 tonnes and 1500m long.

The only scenario being the Lizard gets top priority and is never looped between JNPT and Dadri say. This is a dangerous premise to make in routine operations unless there is a pressing emergency. There are any number of scenarios for this. What if one of the wagons making up the lizard is running hot with wheel bearings heating and this happens in the boonies. The lizard has to be then put in a loop line, that particular wagon isolated and removed and this entails some shunting. Now imagine this with something that extends beyond the loop line, it will hold up all sorts of traffic because of the cockup to please a mantri or cheap publicity.

In fact the videos of DFC rakes on Khurja--Bhaupur section that came out is very revealing. Most had a Alstom loco in the middle and a caboose/last van in front of it. The reason is primarily it was two separate rakes glued together. Once they reached Bhaupur at the DFC yard there and the end of the DFC part of the track, they were separated and each 800m rake could then travel safely on IR tracks after that due to loop line constraints on IR.

The second reason is for brake pressure build up reasons where it is preferable to have Locotrol enabled locomotives in the middle. If you find my Locotrol post made awhile ago, I had elaborated on why it is preferable to have locos in the center and/or rear to quickly build up brake pressure on very long rakes once they have come to a stop and need to disengage brakes again.

Very quickly if loco pilot Kirori Mal Thirugnanasambandar brings his WDFC rake to a halt at Chamchamnagar outer and soon gets a signal to move on, he has to first charge the brake line to 6 kPa to release it. It will take him forever to do so for a long rake for the pressure to build up all the way to the back. EOTT will let him know when it happens. This then will contribute to unnecessary occupation of the through line. If instead there is an additional loco at the rear or in the middle, brake line charging can be done effectively by two compressors and the train can vacate the main line quickly. If the second loco has no one in it then Locotrol is doing the job by means of control signals via a 23 pin cable from the lead loco.

DFC and now slowly on IR there are detection systems in place to detect wagons/bogies running with hot bearings like this one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_box#/ ... _Kopie.png

Zynda
BRFite
Posts: 1971
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Zynda » 24 Jan 2021 10:07

vsunder saar, good to have you back here providing your valuable gyan on DFC & IR. Any insider updates on Mission Raftaar?

I think you had mentioned that SBC-MAS line will be upgraded to operate at 130 Kph...is it the entire stretch? Per one of the news articles, JTJ-AJJ will be upgraded for 130 Kph and JTJ-SBC will be upgraded to operate at 110 Kph only (I think recently 110 Kph speed operations were approved in this stretch as well...previously it was 100 Kph).

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 24 Jan 2021 18:46

@Zynda: Yes a number of capacity enhancements measures were undertaken mainly during the early part of the lockdown on this Class B line, Bangalore City(SBC) and MAS(Chennai). Sectional speeds were increased and they even shot a video of a freight at "high speed" between Jolarpet(JTJ) and SBC. Some of the important measures were as tweeted by DRM SBC and others

1. Straightening of an S-curve to a simple curve of through lines at Jolarpet station. The S-curve placed a permanent caution on trains like Bangalore-Chennai Shatabdi which do not stop at Jolarpet, nevertheless have to slow down considerably to negotiate the S. Now they can clear JTJ at 110 kmph. Panel room was replaced and new electronic interlocking equipment installed at Jolarpet.

2. Track replacement and numerous small British era masonry bridges replaced by cut and prefabricated concrete boxes around Kuppam (on JTJ-SBC section) and legacy 50kg/m rails replaced by higher density 60 kg/m rails.

3. Yard remodeling for better throughput at Bangarapet and VDU units and new electronic interlocking equipment at Bangarapet

https://swr.indianrailways.gov.in/cris/ ... id=0,4,268

4. Lastly Bangalore yard got remodeled for more effective and simultaneous dispatch of trains and reception of trains.
https://www.railpost.in/swr-bengaluru-s ... completed/

In other parts of SWR, Hospet got a spanking new yard with major electronic equipment and now Hubli is undergoing massive yard re-modeling for this month and similarly Yelahanka.

https://www.railpost.in/remodelling-of- ... ion-ready/

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 24 Jan 2021 19:29

Doubling is taking place for the first time ever deep in Peninsular India on the Madurai---Nagercoil---Kanniyakumari section, currently single line electrified. Chennai to Madurai was doubled and electrified around 2016. Numerous other lines around Madurai were electrified and also around Trichy. Trichy to Thanjavur to Cuddalore Port and so on.

But as far as Madurai south earthworks are being done on the entire stretch towards Kanniyakumari, with a few block sections already commissioned during the pandemic.
The feeder line Tuticorin(Thootkodi port) to Vanchi Maniyachi has been also doubled and electrified except for 1 block section. On the principal line itself block sections Kovilapatti to Vanchi Maniyachi is doubled and electrified.

Here are some sections Madurai----Tirumangalam----Virudnagar -----Tulukapatti where between Tirumangalam to Tulukapatti even track linking is done on the northern part of Madurai to Kanniyakumari. All of this will help in more effective movement of container traffic from Tuticorin.

https://youtu.be/65moWMr9kbk

https://youtu.be/z9SsnXY06aU

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 24 Jan 2021 19:57

I have made many allusions to brake pressure and so on. Brakes initially and historically were handbrakes applied by brakemen who sat on top of freight cars. This was very dangerous work and some years 5,000 brakemen lost their lives annually in the US in the 1860s. George Westinghouse invented the first air brake. It cost $50 to install, while a brakeman's salary was $1 and so rail companies did not wish to invest. Deceased brakemen had no insurance and their family got paid nothing. Rail companies in the US also bribed corrupt Senators to look the other way(read high tech companies today). Westinghouse's original system was not fail safe, if a dislocation occurred in the brake pipe, then no brakes. So he re-designed his system so that if brake pressure fell, there would be an additional reservoir in each wagon/bogie that would initiate brake application. This was done by an ingenious three way valve he designed in 1869. The Westinghouse system is at the heart of railway air brake systems though by now there are many innovations to improve the original design. This training video by Burlington Northern railroad very nicely explains how the 3-way valve of Westinghouse works. As I said earlier, the pilot has 3 brakes at his/her disposal. Dynamic braking that is reversing polarity on the traction motos, that need the motors spinning to work and so cannot bring the train to a stop, auto/air brake mode and lastly the brakes on just the loco which can be used to hold a train on level ground or on gentle grade while maintaining brake air pressure on the whole train, and very useful when brought to a halt at Chamchamnagar outer and then making a quick getaway without charging the entire rake if air brakes were used. Same with dynamic braking slowing down. Observe carefully that the Burlington Northern video states that air brakes are applied as all or nothing (that is air brakes when applied apply fully or not at all, not like a car when you can apply partially) and so not very good for slowing down, so a pilot has to effectively mix all three brake options for gentle braking and also not to rely too much on waiting for the compressor to charge lines if possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4n3W1GN1pA

Nowadays they have the twin pipe system which is a bit more sophisticated. This video will explain this system and the two "charging" pressures 6 kPa (90 psi) for the train feed line and 5 kPa (70 psi) for the brake feed line, that can be confusing terminology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXd66m92aKQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ao3qgEY9V0

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5871
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Dileep » 24 Jan 2021 22:01

vsunder wrote: Observe carefully that the Burlington Northern video states that air brakes are applied as all or nothing (that is air brakes when applied apply fully or not at all, not like a car when you can apply partially) and so not very good for slowing down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4n3W1GN1pA

Thanks for the explanation, but as I see from the youtube video is that you can apply brake gradually, but release it fully. The brake applied is kind of proportional to the reduction of pressure in the brake line as explained in the video.

I knew how the vacuum brakes worked from old 'children's science books'. Never really thought how air brakes worked. I kind of assumed that they worked the same way, ie the air pressure keeps a spring loaded brake shoe away from the wheels. Now I know. Thanks.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4332
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby kit » 25 Jan 2021 00:31


vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 26 Jan 2021 01:35

RVNL performing cut and connect at Karjoda(the first station north of Palanpur on the Delhi to Ahmedabad route) to connect WDFC tracks to IR tracks in early December in preparation for operationalizing Madar(Ajmer) to Palanpur section of WDFC. Rakes on WDFC will switch to IR here for onward journey to Palanpur yard and then to Samakhiali and Gujarat ports, Veraval, Mundhra and Kandla. This is a temporary fix.

https://twitter.com/RailVikas/status/13 ... 8674689024

In future, rakes arriving from Gujarat ports to Palanpur will not enter Palanpur yard and congest it, but will travel in this loop north of Palanpur here

https://www.google.com/maps/place/24%C2 ... 72.4096664


then jump over Delhi to Ahmedabad tracks via Rail over rail flyover here

https://www.google.com/maps/place/24%C2 ... 72.4436703

and meet WDFC. Here(at Karjoda) /New Palanpur

https://www.google.com/maps/place/24%C2 ... 72.4576323


the 800 m IR rakes will be combined with other IR rakes from Gujarat ports or rakes coming on WDFC from JNPT and the enlarged 1500m rake will travel on WDFC to Rewari or Dadri to container terminal there or to EDFC.

Gujarat Ports ---Samakhiali-----Palanpur is being doubled and electrified with high mast OHE with several block sections already commissioned (for doubling).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F4_hB7UXwg

So now Gujarat Ports will be soon connected to Rewari (Haryana) via WDFC as you can see ^^^ by late March. In the meantime JNPT, Uddhav Thackeray, Pawar can do Babaji ka Thulla, with the 3000 land encroachers as shippers may very well prefer to use Gujarat ports and suck everything out of JNPT. It is after all shorter to go to Gujarat ports from Angrez lands even via Cape and save some fuel than go to JNPT. In the meantime the "third(turd) committee" appointed by Thackeray has "recommended" that Kanjur Marg be made the metro yard and not Aarey, a turd one was made since the first two disagreed with the CM's diktat. Kuch aur din drama chalega, JICA letter will come soon and give bambu and then Aarey it will be in the end.

In other dramabazi, urban Naxals, and assorted Goans have joined hands " to stop doubling of Mormugoa to Tinaighat section" as "doubling is being done to help Adani bring coal from Mormugoa port". So now SWR has shelved doubling from Tinaighat to Mormugoa and only the part in Karnataka Guntakal ---Hubli ----Tinaighat is doubled and of course electrified. The small Tinaighat to Mormugoa section is held hostage to fake "environmentalists".

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 987
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 26 Jan 2021 22:20

New station Buildings at major cities in SWR:

1. Hosapete (Gateway to Hampi) with elements of Vijayanagara architecture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=uj77uDjgf3M

2. Davangere railway station

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/cdn-cgi/ ... pg.973212/


3. Belagavi(Belgaum) railway station with new pit lines and stabling lines part of doubling and electrification on the Londa--Miraj section
through Belagavi

https://twitter.com/BelagaviRailway/sta ... 32/photo/1

https://twitter.com/Belagavi_infra/stat ... Fpage-1158

4. Sir Mokshagundam Visveswaraya Third Coaching terminal Bypannahalli(yes that is the official name and station code is TCTB). This is the new terminal for Bangalore and is scheduled to open in March after missing umpteen deadlines. This terminal has issues of connectivity with no good approach roads and not good connectivity between the nearby Bypannahalli Metro terminal. Hopefully something will be fixed. Similar to the long awaited connectivity between Yeshwantpur Metro station and Yeshwantpur IR station though the Metro is running for 2 years there. Tenders may have been called to build the skyway connecting IR and Metro at Yeshwantpur(Bangalore).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve3uGHR6UGo


4. The newly opened Bangalore International airport halt station which was opened with great fanfare in early Jan but is suffering with poor patronage of the DEMU trains between Bangalore city and the airport. The airport is running regular shuttle bus service between the halt station and airport terminals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6C7FNuZXPE

Tenders have been called for electrification of this route and so DEMU will be replaced by MEMU in about a year. You can already see traction OHE poles in the video above ^^^^(no brackets on the poles yet and they are not vertical)
Last edited by vsunder on 26 Jan 2021 22:36, edited 1 time in total.

Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3305
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Vips » 26 Jan 2021 22:35

Chittranjan Locomotive works has rolled out its 7500th Electric Locomotive yesterday.

venkat_kv
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 66
Joined: 05 Dec 2020 21:01

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby venkat_kv » 28 Jan 2021 01:15

Indranil wrote:
durairaaj wrote:It appears the previous CEO was the reason for all of the delays and drama.

In few months, we can expect withdrawal of fake corruption charges filed on senior people, who made possible train-18 a reality.

Withdrawal of corruption charge is not enough. Those responsible to cause this pain, time and financial loss must be held accountable for such.


That should be the natural course to deter things from being repeated in the future. but knowing this govt, they will just go on as if nothing has happened and keep trying to show their development.
Its still not clear if this was caused by petty turf wars, jealousy, or outright sabotage due to external players. After 2-3 years of witch hunting we are still at square one with ordering the sets and with trying to follow all the rules no matter how bogus or trumped up some of these charges were.


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Vamsee and 33 guests