Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

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SSundar
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SSundar » 06 Jun 2016 20:19

I am sure there will be no dearth of investor countries who either want a beach head for their HSR technologies or want to park some of their wealth in investments in India. You just need a leadership that can attract these suitors and ensure India's interests are met.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby schinnas » 06 Jun 2016 22:03

chetak wrote:Anyway, now the chinese are pulling the BD puppet strings and the BDs have realized the enormous strategic value of the transit corridor to India. They will never agree.

Even if BD wants to give us the transit corridor, the chinese will never allow them to do it.

Helps keep India on edge, both economically and security wise, because of the chicken neck.


Can you show any reference to that (news items that talk about the leverage China has over BD). China does not have any strategic leverage over BD. However, India has as the river waters to DB flows through India and India surrounds BD on all 3 sides and provides employment for millions of BDs both legally and illegally. China can only dangle investment dollars.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 07 Jun 2016 08:12

yes India has plenty of pain points to inflict on BD if desired, which will pain more than the soothing balm of chinese investments. question is - will they work for mutual benefit or get into TSP mode even if it hurts themselves.

so far Hasina govt has been doing some right things like shutting down and handing over terrorists, hanging 1971 razakar leaders of the genocide .... but if ever khaleda zia makes a comeback, BD will relapse into full-pak mode egged on by the ulema and ISI moles. india needs to ensure this never comes to pass .

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 07 Jun 2016 08:59

Singha wrote:yes India has plenty of pain points to inflict on BD if desired, which will pain more than the soothing balm of chinese investments. question is - will they work for mutual benefit or get into TSP mode even if it hurts themselves.

so far Hasina govt has been doing some right things like shutting down and handing over terrorists, hanging 1971 razakar leaders of the genocide .... but if ever khaleda zia makes a comeback, BD will relapse into full-pak mode egged on by the ulema and ISI moles. india needs to ensure this never comes to pass .


The return of khaleda zia will be engineered soon, during the normal course of elections. That is what the ummah are building up to.

The ummah have become very restless at the thought of BD cosying up to India. The paks, turks, saudis et al have much to say about this. Hostile neighbor countries like pak, nepal, sri lanka and BD is part of the string of pearls plan, the inner circle of the string, if you will.

The chinese will continue their string of pearls policy in BD and use the pakis to push forward their POV.

The PA and ISI have nothing to lose and everything to gain by fronting for the chinese in BD politics by ratcheting up the anti India rhetoric.

The chinese want a constantly harassed, distracted and subdued India because they don't want anything to affect their CPEC. The pakis are irrelevant here, except as service providers for security and coolie manpower.

The GOI moving so quickly to seal off the BD border in Assam means that something is afoot and not yet in the public domain.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 08 Jun 2016 04:32

Prabhu lays Foundation Stone for eight Rail projects in Gujarat

Mehsana: Railway Minister Suresh Prabhu on Tuesday laid foundation stone for eight different rail projects, including the much awaited line doubling between Surendranagar and Rajkot.
...
The projects include Ahmedabad-Mehsana gauge conversion with electrification, Mehsana-Taranga Hill gauge conversion, Vatva-Ahmedabad third line, Modasa-Shamlaji new line, Bhuj-Naliya gauge conversion, Somnath-Kodinar new line, Miyagam-Samlaya gauge conversion and Surendranagar-Rajkot line doubling in Saurashtra region.
...
“I want to assure you that a direct train from north Gujarat to Mumbai will definitely start in near future. I will not give exact date, but it will 100 per cent start,” he said.
...
“Tiger Express has been flagged off on Sunday. On the same line, if Gujarat government wants, we can also think of starting a tourist train keeping in mind the lion safari here on revenue sharing basis,” he said.
...

For the common man, we will launch ‘Antyoday’ train. We are also planning to launch ‘Uday’ train that will start in night and arrive at the destination in morning. We have also created Director of Mobility to see how we can increase the speed of the existing trains,” he said.

“To counter huge rush of passengers, particularly in (trains to) Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, we have decided to attach additional coaches, which will be called as ‘Deen Dayal Coaches’,” the minister apprised.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 08 Jun 2016 04:36

http://www.railnews.co.in/pm-not-too-ha ... itiatives/

New Delhi: Prime Minister Narendra Modi does not seem to be too happy with the performance of Indian Railways. While chairing a high-level meeting with the rail ministry’s brass last Monday i.e.30th May 2016, the PM asked officials to “substantially raise” their levels of ambition when it comes to key projects like redevelopment of 400 stations.

In the course of the review of the Railways sector, it was noted that the capital investment in 2015-16 was over Rs. 93,000 crore, which represents a massive increase of 65 per cent over the previous year, and is the highest-ever. Similarly, 1780 km of lines have been commissioned, and 1730 kilometres electrified during 2015-16, which represent the best performance on these metrics in railway history.

The Prime Minister stressed upon the need to speed up the redevelopment of Railway Stations, and urged the Railways to substantially raise its level of ambition in this regard. He emphasized the need for the Railways to upgrade and diversify the uses of its infrastructure. He reiterated that railway infrastructure in rural areas could be used for activities such as skill development, and this could also result in an increase in non-fare revenue for the railways.

The PM’s unhappiness spans across other marquee initiatives too. Modi is learnt to have complained there was hardly any “visible progress” on setting up a proposed Rail University, using advertisements for generating revenues, and lack of creative utilization of rail infrastructure for revenue.

Following up on the flak received from the PM, the ministry is understood to have issued instructions to take immediate action to ensure perceptible progress. It is not the first time, however, that the railways has been pulled up by the PM. The PM’s office had last year expressed concern over lack of spending on key projects. A rail ministry spokesperson could not be contacted for comment.

So, is Railways really faltering on performance delivery like never before, or Modi’s expectations from rail minister Suresh Prabhakar Prabhu are simply too high? The rail ministry had last week issued an exhaustive list of achievements made by Indian Railways in the past two years. The list including 138 items across key functional areas of passenger amenities, digital India initiatives, infrastructure creation, support for Make in India initiatives, railway reforms, green initiatives, cleanliness, connectivity in North-East, Public Private Partnership (PPP) in railway projects, freight and safety.

The station redevelopment initiative had figured in the ministry’s list. “Redevelopment of 400 Stations to be developed on e-bidding on as-is-where-is basis; 10 stations handed over to IRSDC,” the ministry stated as one of the achievements. The Union cabinet, while approving the station redevelopment scheme in July last year had cleared open bidding as the method of development. The ministry’s achievement lies in “handing over” 10 stations to IRSDC in one year since then.

A look at the activities of Indian Railway Stations Development Corporation (IRSDC) over the past few months suggests work in progress. The company is working on redeveloping seven stations including Anand Vihar, Bijwasan, Chandigarh, Habibganj (Bhopal), Shivaji Nagar, Surat and Mohali. The Request for Qualification (RFQ) for the Anand Vihar project was opened in February and bids submitted by 13 companies are currently being evaluated.

Bijwasan’s RFQ was opened in March and bids placed by 9 firms are currently being evaluated. For redevelopment of Surat, the ministry has invited applications for setting up a milti-modal transport hub, two pre-bid conferences were held only last month which witnessed participation from 38 developers. Eight firms have submitted applications last month for Gandhinagar station, and a developer has already been appointed in March for redevelopment of Habibganj station following a bidding process.

The PM has also expressed concern over the delay in work on the Railway University proposal, mooted two years ago by the government. The ministry has submitted a draft bill on the proposal for the university, to come up in Vadodara, to the NITI Aayog for appraisal.

The Prime Minister was also unimpressed by the lack of creative utilisation of rail infrastructure for revenue. One area where Railways has been asked to seriously step up its efforts is better utilisation of rakes running empty after delivering loads.

For this, Railways plans to now seek suggestions from other ministries how best to use them, with the Cabinet Secretary asked to coordinate the process.

The Prime Minister is also learnt to be keen on Railways utilising MNREGA funds more for its various works for rural job-creation. The Railways has been asked to weed out procedural issues by working with the Rural Development Ministry, according to the internal note issued by the Board.

On the issue of better utilisation of empty rakes, Mital said the Railways’ record was “not bad”. “If I take coal from Dhanbad to Punjab, that rake needs to come back to Dhanbad to pick up coal again. This is normal. Our empty rake utilisation is not bad at around 40 per cent, which almost on a par with global practices,” he said.

The Railways has been announcing various schemes for the industry to better utilise empty rakes and made non-fare revenue generation one of the objectives in this year’s Rail Budget with a separate directorate set up for it.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 08 Jun 2016 14:46

Maharashtra stops Rs 98,000-cr bullet train project in its tracks



Maharashtra stops Rs 98,000-cr bullet train project in its tracks

Image

The state government is learnt to have told Railways that since only a small portion of the bullet train corridor — one of Modi’s pet infrastructure projects — falls in Maharashtra, such a large revenue loss cannot be justified.

India’s Rs 98,000-crore bullet train project between Ahmedabad and Mumbai has run into an unexpected roadblock. The Maharashtra government is not allowing the Railways to build the most crucial station — Mumbai.

As per the Railways plans, the Mumbai station is to be constructed underground at the Bandra-Kurla complex (BKC) — the central business district in the western suburb. The plans were prepared by Japanese consultants, who surveyed all options and zeroed in on this area after speaking with state authorities.

But Maharashtra has told Railways that the proposed station would hamper its plans to build a financial centre at the same place. That the station would be underground has failed to cut ice with the state government.

In May, Railway Ministry officials held two rounds of meetings with Maharashtra officials, the chief secretary and Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis, but failed to arrive at a breakthrough.

Maharashtra is learnt to have told Railways that the proposed station would lead to a revenue loss of Rs 10,000 crore for the state.

Indian officials plan Japan visit to take forward Rs 98,000-crore Ahmedabad-Mumbai bullet train projectGovt forms new entity for bullet train; may get Rs 200 crore in Rail Budget Mumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train may run on elevated corridorBullet train project:

Fadnavis asks Rlys to use its own landMumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train project stuck, no consensus yet on land for stationStudy on to see if India can run bullet trainIndian officials plan Japan visit to take forward Rs 98,000-crore Ahmedabad-Mumbai bullet train projectGovt forms new entity for bullet train; may get Rs 200 crore in Rail BudgetMumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train may run on elevated corridorBullet train project: Fadnavis asks Rlys to use its own landMumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train project stuck, no consensus yet on land for stationStudy on to see if India can run bullet trainIndian officials plan Japan visit to take forward Rs 98,000-crore Ahmedabad-Mumbai bullet train projectGovt forms new entity for bullet train; may get Rs 200 crore in Rail BudgetMumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train may run on elevated corridorBullet train project: Fadnavis asks Rlys to use its own landMumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train project stuck, no consensus yet on land for stationStudy on to see if India can run bullet train

While the Railways has told the state that it would get back with an answer, some in the ministry are inclined to knock on Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s door for a solution or a compromise, given that Maharashtra is a BJP-ruled state.

Of the 28-hectare land at the BKC, Railways needs only 0.9 hectares to build access to the underground station. But Maharashtra has said that because of the existing building bylaws and rules governing commercial establishments, a significant portion would become inaccessible for the proposed financial centre — a showpiece project for the state.

Railways also tried to explain to state officials that proximity to a high-speed railway station would only enhance the profile of the proposed centre, but the state remains unconvinced.
“Once an underground station is built there, we will not be able to build anything on the ground, so the loss of land to us is more than just 0.9 hectares,” U P S Madan, commissioner of the Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority (MMRDA), told The Indian Express.

Madan said that according to calculations, the Floor Space Index of the BKC is four. “So even if we take that one hectare of land is gone, the FSI would be for four hectares, which is a huge loss. Railways never wrote to us or informed us when the study was going on, else we would have told them then,” Madan said.
The state government is also learnt to have told Railways that since only a small portion of the bullet train corridor — one of Modi’s pet infrastructure projects — falls in Maharashtra, such a large revenue loss cannot be justified. Railways has been informally asked to either extend the project beyond Mumbai or use its own vacant land for a station.

Railways has vacant land in both Bandra and Kurla, but not in the prime BKC. Japanese consultants had opted for BKC because it would provide better traffic and a superior accessibility to the project.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby prahaar » 08 Jun 2016 17:22

It is nice to see proper debate, cross verification and benefit validation happening for the BT project. This is how it is supposed to happen. It is obvious that Maharashtra does not gain as much as Gujarat from this connectivity. "Modi ne bola", should not be a reason. Mumbai is sufficiently provided for if suburban train line is doubled to 4 from two (Western line). Adding Pune might be the hard bargaining, but not likely to happen.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby schinnas » 08 Jun 2016 18:43

Railways under Suresh Prabhu have shown better efficiency in things that they normally do, but not much creativity that one saw under Goyal's coal and power ministry or under Nitin Gadkari (transportation and shipping minister).

Empty rake utilization can be improved by introducing an online bid process for utilization of these rakes by businesses. The fixed rate slab should be by passed for under utilized or unutilized routes and for utilizing empty rakes. This is similar to what airlines and hotels to do sell empty seats and unoccupied rooms. They let third parties such as priceline.com auction those to the highest bidder. Any money collected is better than leaving the rakes empty.

PM Modi was right in pulling up IR for lack of imagination and inability to think bigger.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 08 Jun 2016 19:03

Suresh Prabhu has focused on non-optics things like track laying, doubling-tripling, electrification, dfc, etc which have long-term benefits while you need to have optics for winning elections. Modern trains and modern stations would have been visible progress for the aam admi. He has been less efficient on those e.g. I am surprised they didn't have a pre-bid meeting to figure out what the optimal order for trainsets would be to make business sense. This may have delayed it by one year.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Prasad » 08 Jun 2016 21:22

Well MH should be looking at the long game here instead of just the initial line. This could, if it works, extend all the way upto delhi on one side and maybe b'lore on the other. And this is looong term. Can't be myopic and say what do i get now?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 08 Jun 2016 23:15

Prasad wrote:Well MH should be looking at the long game here instead of just the initial line. This could, if it works, extend all the way upto delhi on one side and maybe b'lore on the other. And this is looong term. Can't be myopic and say what do i get now?


what's the issue with shifting the station and providing public transport linkages to it from nearby transport hubs??

Is BKC so sacrosanct for the station that it cannot be shifted??

Don't people now catch a train from wherever it leaves from, instead of demanding that it starts from their home??

how does the location of the destination station matter, even if the train is going to new york or sydney??

or is the japanese project report engraved in stone??

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 08 Jun 2016 23:23

I still don't understand what revenue loss will MH realize if the station is underground? Wouldn't it be similar to the NYC Penn Station in Manhattan?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 09 Jun 2016 02:41

Kashi: DFC will not have a single level crossing. Any level crossing you saw in the video/s will be totally eliminated
and are there momentarily for technical reasons. Like moving construction vehicles across to the other side
so that work can can be done on constructing RUB's etc under both IR and DFCC tracks. Notice that between Palanpur and Banas in that video made by some clown, one did not see RUB's but only massive formation and earthwork construction. So I surmise that construction on that section has a ways to go.
Once the batching plant in the video is off and running, things will happen quickly.

http://www.railnews.co.in/dfc-to-be-be- ... ma-mddfcc/


GMR construction has been awarded huge contracts in the last month. Dadri-Khurja section of 46km on EDFC, Sahnewal-Pilekhani section on the Ludhiana-Khurja (401km)section of EDFC, which is single lined due to land acquisition issues in Punjab. In addition they have already won the Kanpur-Mughalsarai contract(402 km). This is for earthwork, cuttings and civil construction. L&T has the systems and OHE work for Kanpur to Mughalsarai. Gayatri Construction has won the civil construction Iqbalgarh-Vadodara(308 km) on western DFC. Now all civil constructions have been awarded except the short section connecting Western and Eastern DFC Rewari to Dadri(127km) and the important Son Nagar(Bihar) to Dankuni (WB) section 550+ kms, for which even financing has not been tied up, PPP model supposedly.

Regarding junctions with IR: Three more junctions have to be added to the list I wrote down for Western DFC, Prithala near Asaoti ( between Asaoti and Palwal) on Delhi-Mathura mainline to link to Delhi-Mumbai-Chennai trunk line, New Bangurgram Jn and New Marwar Jn.


Here are the junctions with IR on eastern DFC:

Chawapail,Sirhind,Sambhu,Kalanaur,Pilkhani,Dadri(U),Khurja,Daudkhan( for Aligarh),Tundla ( for Agra and towards Bandikui and CR) ,Bhaupur,Bhimsen (lot of jheels here in the old days)( outside Kanpur and connects to Kanpur-Jhansi line), New Kanpur Jn, really at Chakeri east of Kanpur,Karchchna ( for Allahabad, south of Allahabad loop, DFC's never enter a city, junction here for Katni tracks) ,Ahraura Road,Mughalsarai, Ganjkhwaja( for Varanasi and near Mughalsarai),Sonnagar,Gomoh,Andal(W),Andal,
Andal(E) and Dankuni. The junctions seen at Durgauti and Sasaram with IR in the drone video are temporary and will go as soon as the permanent ones at Son Nagar and Ganj Khwaja start to function

Both DFC's have a uniformly ruled gradient of 1:200 and no more, with those heavy freights you need it, no climbing Thull ghat at 1:37. Maramjhiri-Dharakoh is 1:70 and so is Chichonda-Teegaon, and so when they build Chennai-Delhi DFC, interesting to see what will happen here, no? hehehehe TSS's ( Traction sub-stations) are about 40-60km apart on the DFC.
Last edited by vsunder on 09 Jun 2016 05:54, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 09 Jun 2016 05:01

Xpost from the sub-discussion on HSR in the burka dhaga
-----------------------------------------------------------------

prashanth wrote:Saar, please replace the word 'Money' with 'Loan', however generous the latter is, you will have your answers.


The terms of loan repayment are as important as the loan itself. Please read up on the terms of repayment of this Shinkansen-specific loan and if one can find better terms anywhere else and you'll have all your answers.

prashanth wrote:I have yet to come across a report of estimated ticket prices and patronage of the bullet train system between Mumbai and Ahmbd. Remember that even the shinkansen lines are not stellar successes financially.


:eek: Please read up on Tokaido-Shinkansen, its profitability and the socio-economic impact. That's the route Ahmedabad-Mumbai is modelled on- Connecting two major urban centres together.

Please see this

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/0 ... 1gYfORkDO8

Three listed Japan Railways Group firms have posted record consolidated sales and operating profits for fiscal 2015, thanks to brisk demand for shinkansen services.

In the reporting period, sales at East Japan Railway Co. grew 4 percent from the year before to ¥2.8 trillion, with operating profit of ¥487 billion, up 14.1 percent.

Sales increased 4 percent to ¥1.7 trillion at Central Japan Railway Co. Operating profit expanded 14.2 percent to ¥578 billion.

West Japan Railway Co. saw its sales rise 7.5 percent to ¥1.4 trillion and its operating profit surge 29.9 percent to ¥181 billion.

JR East and JR West were able to boost revenues by ¥47.5 billion and ¥28.9 billion, respectively, thanks to the March 2015 extension of the Hokuriku Shinkansen Line to Kanazawa that shortened travel times between the city and Tokyo.

JR Tokai saw revenue from its Tokaido Shinkansen service linking Tokyo and Osaka rise by ¥48.5 billion. “Both business and leisure demand were strong,” JR Tokai President Koei Tsuge said.


prashanth wrote:OTOH Japan has already provided loans to various metro projects in India, Blr and Del to name a few, through JICA. These mass transit systems are used heavily and one can expect that the loans will be repaid in the long term. Cant see why they would deny loans for upgradation of existing lines, in place of the bullet train.


They may or may not. As a matter of fact they are already funding a substantial portion of the Western DFCC. However, there is NO evidence to suggest that this HSR-specific loan WILL preclude them from funding other rail ventures if it comes to that.

Moreover, it will be fallacious to assume that should we turn down their offer to fund HSR, it will automatically enable these funds that were budgeted for HSR, to be available for other projects. The funds for the other projects will have do be sought for and budgeted separately and that will take time and they may or may not materialise, since the Japanese view HSR funding very differently from other projects.

The HSR funding is more that a simple investment in a high-tech infrastructure project. For Japanese and for India, the ramifications go far beyond that. Japan has been smarting from losing the Indonesian HSR tender to China, who stole their designs and their DPR and undercut them. One of the reasons why they have offered these terms is because they are determined not lose out to China again. Also, if this model succeeds, they are likely to have a more receptive audience when they market their tech around the world, especially if the US HSR plans take off. Japanese are thinking long term and so are we.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 09 Jun 2016 06:29

vsunder wrote:Kashi: DFC will not have a single level crossing. Any level crossing you saw in the video/s will be totally eliminated and are there momentarily for technical reasons. Like moving construction vehicles across to the other side
so that work can can be done on constructing RUB's etc under both IR and DFCC tracks.
Notice that between Palanpur and Banas in that video made by some clown, one did not see RUB's but only massive formation and earthwork construction. So I surmise that construction on that section has a ways to go.


That's understandable. So in the end, are we likely to see DFCs become completely access controlled? That said, watching the few videos of the trial runs on the 56-km DFCC stretch between Durgawati and Sasaram, I was could not see access control barriers. Maybe they'll be commissioned once the entire route is laid out

vsunder wrote:Both DFC's have a uniformly ruled gradient of 1:200 and no more, with those heavy freights you need it, no climbing Thull ghat at 1:37. Maramjhiri-Dharakoh is 1:70 and so is Chichonda-Teegaon, and so when they build Chennai-Delhi DFC, interesting to see what will happen here, no? hehehehe TSS's ( Traction sub-stations) are about 40-60km apart on the DFC.


That will necessitate some serious environmental clearance for the section between Gurpa-Gujhandi ghat section, taking a detour via Koderma.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 09 Jun 2016 06:43

Kashi wrote:That will necessitate some serious environmental clearance for the section between Gurpa-Gujhandi ghat section, taking a detour via Koderma.


Absolutely correct. I had mentioned this point. The alignment of DFC between Gujhandi-Gurpa is not alongside the Grand Chord, and in the forest where serious environmental clearance will be needed. Grand Chord is at 1:70 gradient in Gurpa Gujjahandi section so they are deviating to maintain 1:200 grade.

Also there is a section of EDFC that is still not tendered, or let us say I am ignorant who constructs it. That is between Sahnewal( outside Ludhiana) to Pilkhani outside Saharanpur, GMR does the civil construction as I mentioned above. But from Saharanpur---> Deoband---> Muzzafar Nagar---> Meerut---> Hapur----> Bulandshahr---> Khurja( now running alongside Delhi-Kanpur line) still do not know who got the tender for civil works.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Arunkumar » 09 Jun 2016 07:12

Prasad wrote:Well MH should be looking at the long game here instead of just the initial line. This could, if it works, extend all the way upto delhi on one side and maybe b'lore on the other. And this is looong term. Can't be myopic and say what do i get now?


Something else is at play here. Probably airline\bus lobby. They have a lot to loose if a bullet train runs between Mumbai and Delhi. Powerful :wink: might have stake somewhere.
BKC is an ideal locaton on account of it being at the intersection of two upcoming metro lines.
Railways should not budge come what may. If compensation is an issue what about the slum dewellers squatting on prime airport land belonging to AAI.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 09 Jun 2016 09:57

Karthik S wrote:I still don't understand what revenue loss will MH realize if the station is underground? Wouldn't it be similar to the NYC Penn Station in Manhattan?


per what MMRDA says, the FSI of the plot is consumed whether you build underground or overground. After building the UG station, no or very little FSI is left for the financial centre being planned by the Govt of Maharashtra.

The IR has enough and more land in Bombay to easily shift the station.

Doesn't look like a biggie.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 09 Jun 2016 17:46

It is a red herring. Govt decides FSI and they can certainly make an exception for such an important project.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 09 Jun 2016 18:25

On second thoughts - if HSR in India takes off Mumbai will eventually have at least three lines terminating there. So they will need a major bullet train hub and the BKC land may not be sufficient. If railways have more land elsewhere in Mumbai it may be better to build a hub there.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby prahaar » 09 Jun 2016 19:21

Supratik wrote:On second thoughts - if HSR in India takes off Mumbai will eventually have at least three lines terminating there. So they will need a major bullet train hub and the BKC land may not be sufficient. If railways have more land elsewhere in Mumbai it may be better to build a hub there.


Is it not four? Bandra Terminus, Churchgate (suburban) + Mumbai Central (through), LTT. The BT and LTT are the worst. And the new bullet train terminus.

IR does not want a repeat of Bandra Terminus and LTT with HSR, otherwise it will be a major flop service.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 09 Jun 2016 19:37

chetak wrote:
Karthik S wrote:I still don't understand what revenue loss will MH realize if the station is underground? Wouldn't it be similar to the NYC Penn Station in Manhattan?


per what MMRDA says, the FSI of the plot is consumed whether you build underground or overground. After building the UG station, no or very little FSI is left for the financial centre being planned by the Govt of Maharashtra.

The IR has enough and more land in Bombay to easily shift the station.

Doesn't look like a biggie.


Ah, some of the laws are so counter-intuitive/productive.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 09 Jun 2016 19:40

No I meant three bullet train lines Mum-Del, Mum-kol, Mum-Che at least eventually. So they need to plan ahead of time and build an exclusive bullet train hub instead of ad-hoc solutions having terminuses at different places.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 09 Jun 2016 19:43

being priced like plane tickets, the HSR stations need to be built on the scale and finish of airports, not regular IR railway stations.
the clientale will not expect less. design must scale out as traffic increases.

Nanjing HSR station - same is true for all cheen HSR stations - all purpose built, all very soothing

http://s1235.photobucket.com/user/Lhasa ... 1.jpg.html

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 09 Jun 2016 19:52

Suresh Prabhu has stated that different countries have been partnered with to remodel existing stations, which will eventually look like airports. Hope that happens.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Prasad » 09 Jun 2016 21:18


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 10 Jun 2016 08:57

Pune-Londa rail route project gets Central govt’s nod

New Delhi: With the Hospet-Hubli-Londa-Vasco and Bangalore-Hubli track doubling projects already in progress, the cabinet committee on economic affairs chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi recently gave its approval for doubling of Pune-Miraj-Londa railway line project at an estimated cost of 3,627.47 crore. The estimated completion cost has been pegged at 4,246.84 crore with 5% escalation per annum.
...
The work on Hospet-Hubli-Londa-Tinaighat section (245 km) is being taken up under phase one at an estimated cost of 928.85 crore and is expected to be done by 2018.


http://www.railnews.co.in/prabhu-lays-f ... sana-line/

Salient Feature of the Project:
Gujarat has an important role to play in terms of railway traffic due to strategic location of ports like Kandla. In addition to it, there is a huge demand for passenger services for Gujarat.
There are 20 ongoing Railway projects which fall partly or fully in Gujarat. The aggregate length of these projects is 2880 km and total cost is Rs 17500 Cr. This is in addition to high speed project between Mumbai- Ahmedabad and Western Dedicated freight corridor passing through Gujarat.
In terms of railway network per 100 km of area, Gujarat has 2.66 km network against 2.01 km for the nation. With respect to population also, Gujarat has 8.71 km per lakh against national average of 5.46 km.
An allotment of Rs. 3670 cr has been made for projects in Gujarat against allotment of Rs. 3132 cr in 15-16 and 806 Cr in 14-15.
In the last 2 years, 4 projects have been included in Railway Budgets which fall in Gujarat.
3 more projects have been included in Rly Budget 2016-17 subject to state government coming forward for financial participation.
Gauge conversion of 70 km long Ahmadabad- Mehsana meter gauge was included in Railway Budget in 2015-16 and foundation stone for the same is being laid today. Cost of this project is estimated to be Rs. 478 Cr. and an allotment of Rs. 100 has been made for current financial year.
There is a BG line also between Ahmadabad and Mehsana. After conversion of the Meter gauge line, there will be a broad gauge double line between Ahmadabad and Mehsana.
This section falls on Ahmadabad- Delhi main line via Jaipur. Railways are in the process of making this entire section as double line. Out of 864 kilometer long route, 407 kilometer from (i) Delhi to Alwar and (ii) Bandikui- Jaipur- Ajmer are already double line. Work is in progress on around 350 kilometer section in addition to Ahmadabad- Mehsana 70 kilometer section. 36 kilometer from Marwar to Chandrawal on this route is targeted for commissioning in this financial year.
Doubling of track on this route will result into faster connectivity between Delhi and Ahmadabad.
The work also involves electrification between Ahmadabad and Mehsana. Electrification of existing BG single line is also in progress.


http://www.railnews.co.in/railways-ntpc ... dgi-track/

New Delhi: State-run generation utility NTPC-Kudgi and South Western Railways have signed an agreement for doubling of the Hotgi-Kudgi section of South Western Railway under the customer funding concession plan.

NTPC has agreed to finance the cost of construction of the Rail System under the Customer funding model of Ministry of Railways Policy of participative model for rail connectivity. NTPC has deposited Rs. 946 crore with South Western Railway towards the cost of doubling of railway section between Hotgi – Kudgi (134 km).

The section between Hotgi – Kudgi (134 km) consists of 10 Block Stations 08 Major bridges and 02 important bridges on river Don and River Bheema. The work for the doubling has already been started by South Western Railway and the project is targeted for completion by March, 2020.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 10 Jun 2016 09:28

Shakuntala Railways: India’s Only British-Owned Railways



Mansi Dua
June 8, 2016,

Shakuntala Railways: India’s Only British-Owned Railways

Indian Railways has become a part and parcel of our lives. Life without it would have been completely unimaginable for the millions of people who avail’s facilities everyday.

Being one of the most important medium of transportation, many of us sometimes forget about its origin. The Indian railways’ nationalisation goes back to the year 1951 and although we own the entire labyrinth of the railway network, there is one railways that is still not owned by India.

Image
Shakuntala Express (Photo: Wikimedia Commmons)

There are a few railways that are privately owned, but Shakuntala Railways is the only railway line that belongs to a British firm.

The reason as to why this railway line does not come under the Indian Railways is still unclear, but when the entire railways was nationalised in 1952, this line was strangely left alone and neglected.

During the British Raj, all of the rail lines were owned by individual firms, and this Shakuntala Railways was founded by a British Firm called Killick-Nixon, in 1910.

Image
Shakuntala Railways (Photo: Wikimedia Commons)


Unlike most railway lines in India that uses broad gauge lines, the Shakuntala Railways still use narrow gauge lines. And the most surprising fact is that the British Company still receives more than 1 crore rupees from Indian Railways for running a train on its tracks.

The Shaunkala express runs from Achalpur, in the Amarvati division and takes just one return journey each day.

With old and rusty steam engines, and ‘made in Liverpool’ inscribed on it, a ride in the Shakuntala Railways will remind you of another era altogether.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Zynda » 10 Jun 2016 19:16

I hope the newer railway lines are designed for high speed (160 - 200 Kph) right from the get go i.e. having huge radius of curvatures for curves, having as much straight track as possible, high speed turnouts etc. Don't want a situation like BLR-MYS lines where the curves are so steep that perhaps operations beyond 110 Kph is challenging.

For ex the following line will become an important high traffic one very soon.

BENGALURU-MUMBAI TRAIN ROUTE WILL SOON GET SHORTER

The train journey between Bengaluru and Mumbai is all set to come down by four-five hours in the near future with the state government deciding to expedite work on the new Tumakuru-Davanagere railway line.

The new rail route, which will be laid through Sira and Chitradurga towns, will put the brakes on the current circuitous route that the Bengaluru-Mumbai trains take. At present, trains from Bengaluru reach Tumakuru and meander through interior places such as Tiptur, Arsikere, Birur and Chikkajajur, and reach Davanagere before proceeding towards Hubli and Mumbai. The circuitous route is 326 km (from Bengaluru to Davanagere) and is time-consuming.

But the new rail-route would run on a straight line from Tumakuru to Davanagere via Sira, Hiriyur and Chitradurga. The distance on this route (from Bengaluru to Davanagere) will be only 265 km. (have the track on this stretch designed for high speed, even if the actual operating speeds may not be beyond 120 Kph)

Though the project was mooted six years ago and politicians from the state, including the then minister of state for railways KH Muniyappa, had promised to finish work early, nothing concrete happened on the ground. However, the state cabinet gave the project another lease of life on Wednesday by fast-tracking it.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 10 Jun 2016 19:23

How can a state cabinet fast track a railway project except for help in LA?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 10 Jun 2016 19:27

Supratik wrote:How can a state cabinet fast track a railway project except for help in LA?



There may be some financial contribution from the state side also.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 10 Jun 2016 19:35

what is the state of the bangalore to hassan rail line ? is it operational ?

that was another KA style meandering project...assam and KA state govts are 1:1 peers in pathetic project execution.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby ArmenT » 10 Jun 2016 19:59


As per this article on rediff nearly a year earlier:
Shakuntala Railway is the opposite. The track is owned by a private company and trains are run by IR (meaning CR). Sure, this is a narrow gauge line, what might be called a branch line. Shakuntala Railway is still owned by CPRC, presumably because the government of the day simply forgot to nationalise it. Since GIPR was only an operator, who owns Shakuntala Railway? Killick Nixon (set up in 1857), the agent for CPRC, does, though Killick Nixon has now moved from British to Indian hands.


This is the company in question:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/killick-nixon-ltd/infocompanyhistory/companyid-12272.cms
http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=20385265
and the parent, Central Provinces Railway Company (CPRC):
http://www.thecentralprovincerailways.com/
Both are based in Mumbai and completely Indian owned since 1947. Only the old name remains, sort of like Royal Enfield Motors.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 10 Jun 2016 20:07

Singha wrote:what is the state of the bangalore to hassan rail line ? is it operational ?

that was another KA style meandering project...assam and KA state govts are 1:1 peers in pathetic project execution.


The state of Karnataka is a pathetic state as far as Railways go. There were till a few years ago no double lines in the state, except Bangalore-Bangarapet 80km maybe. Now in the last 3 years, there is Bangalore-Mysore( done except for the saga of shifting Tippu's armoury at Srirangapatna which has been going on for 5 years and which blocks the alignment of the double line and new bridge across the Kaveri, who knows when this will be done), patch doubling, Arsikere-Hubli , basically Arsikere---> Shivani----->Chikjajur doubled and Bangalore-Tumkur 40km doubled. As far as electrification only Bangalore-Bangarapet. I am not sure Bangalore-Hindupur electrification is commissioned. As far as Hassan-Bangalore new line, this has been going on for 10 years. I have posted this story many times. There was the prolonged negotiation with Mallya as the line ran through his stud farm at Kunigal which he claimed dated back to Tippu Sultan. Now this line was to be finished in March 2016, then it became June 2016, now they say Dec 2016. A tunnel has to be completed, which it is, and only one block section is held up, Tippasandra-Solur.
That is because of land, IR needs land for approach roads to the station in the jungle, and some for right of way. 5 acres in all, but that is the stumbling, bumbling block. Rest of the line is complete, some parts are commissioned and remaining parts engine rolling has taken place. In particular tracks have been laid through the stud farm. There was exchange of property with Mallya.

@ Chetak: I see Armen T beat me to it. the article posted by Chetak is full of misinformation. This Shakuntala railway was converted to diesel in 1993, and so what is this rusty steam engine the lady talks about. That rusty steam engine is in Pune Loco shed. Yes Pune, has a large diesel and electric shed and the steam engine may be rehabilitated there. The line is for carrying cotton, chillies and palmrosa oil from Yavatmal( south of Murtajapur) to Achalpur north of Murtajapur, cutting the Central railway tracks of the Mumbai-Howrah( via Nagpur) trunk line at Murtajapur.

What is really funny is the large picture they have of the mightiest of mighty steam beasts of IR, the magnificent Beyer-Garratts which where BG locos rated at 800hp+ with 16 driving wheels and articulated tender for stability and taking tight turns with such a driving wheel arrangement, see Talgo ideas were already there on IR, nothing is new, everything is old stuff canned with new labels. One specimen is being refurbished at IR rail museum in Chanakyapuri in Delhi. Another has been fully re-conditioned and in working order at Kharagpur loco shed and SER takes it out on heritage runs. These beasts hauled heavy coal freight from the Jharia coalfields and were with Bengal Nagpur Railway, BNR, forerunner of South Eastern railways. What do these BG beasts have to do with Narrow gauge and Central railway (which is where Murtajapur is) which is the jurisdiction of Shakuntala Railway? So what is the point of sticking a wrong picture into an article on Shakuntala railway. Lastly Beyer-Garratts still work valiantly pulling heavy freight on South African railways and Rhodesian(Zimbabwe Railways) here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOlZ3F5kA-0


Beyer-Garratt's on Indian Railways( note the ones in Africa have 12 driving wheels, the ones in India had 16. The last ones were retired in 1969, once SER electrified the area around Tatanagar, and north)
http://www.rypn.org/briefs/single.php?f ... 070449.txt

The only thing left was to blame the situation on Suresh Prabhu and Modi.

And now the history lesson. Achalpur, the northern terminus of the Shakuntala railway is the former Ellichpur, one of the five capitals of the Deccan sultanates, that of the Imadshahi dynasty, that had only 4 rulers before being swallowed up by the Nizamshahis of Ahmednagar. The principal attraction here at Achalpur is no doubt the fort of Gawligarh, a massive redoubt. After the defeat of Maratha forces at Assaye near the Ajanta caves, (it is a turn off to Assaye on the way to Ajanta from Aurangabad), Maratha forces headed through the Ajanta hills and Gawilghur as the British pronounced, it for the safety of Gawligarh. On the 15th December 1803, in a brutal assault after using a mine to breach the fort walls, Arthur Wellesley, the future Duke of Wellington, took Gawligarh by assault and escalade. The breach and damaged walls still stand today, the fort is a ruin and seldom visited by man and perhaps a few beasts. Some individuals do make it to the fort and enjoy the views from the top.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gawilghur

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 11 Jun 2016 02:11

Since I have said in the previous post that Karnataka lacks suitable rail infrastructure. Several projects have been sanctioned after the advent of Modi. Contrary to previous dispensations, this time around the non-performing South Western Railway, (which by the way has the lowest revenues in the recently released list of revenues for each zone),
has been held accountable. They have been off the block fast enough. For example, Bangalore--Hubli is mightily over saturated and needs doubling. Bangalore--Tumkur is doubled but beyond Tumkur--Arsikere(96 km) is single line. Traffic from Mangalore also runs on this section currently. Doubling for this was quickly sanctioned by Modi. Here is the rapid progress, earthworks started 6 months after sanctioning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIwhlUNPTIo

Arsikere-Chikjajur is doubled and Modi and crew have sanctioned Chikjajur-Hubli which is 200km. In addition someone posted above Hotgi(Solapur) to Gadag doubling. Here part of the money for doubling works has been put down by NTPC as they have a huge thermal plant coming up at Kudgi on this line and need coal. Plus there are steel and other industries.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/533 ... nised.html

The other major doubling project in Karnataka is doubling from Mormugoa---Vasco-da-Gama(Goa) to Hospet. Phase 1 is Hospet--- Tinaighat doubling. Beyond Tinaighat to Vasco are the Dudhsagar Falls and difficult ghat terrain. That will be taken up in Phase II. In the Tinaighat to Hospet section work is progressing but slowly, several sections are patch doubled. This is being done by RVNL. SWR on its own website claims it is 20% done for a project that has gone on for years. At Londa between Dharwad and Tinaighat, the Pune-Miraj-Londa line joins it. This doubling of the Pune-Miraj-Londa line has been sanctioned recently as Kashi has also posted this news above. Hopefully this will improve connectivity of Bangalore with many backward parts of Karnataka, yes there are many such areas, a reality check if you travel to Badami, Bijapur and Gadag, Hospet etc.

Question: There is this report of empty rakes not bringing revenue. I remember when I was a small chap, there was a "power house" in Kanpur close to where I lived. The power house is now defunct, and its rusty remains still remain, locked and chained, the chimneys point uselessly at the sky. The power house was supplied coal by a siding that also supplied coal to the nearby textile mills. Fly ash was carted away in trucks by road that messed up the streets and was of no value. Why cannot the rakes bring back fly ash to plants that can make cinder blocks and other building materials out of it? I agree, the mass of fly ash will be less than the coal, a lot escapes as CO2 gas, but the rakes need not be filled to the top with ash that flies away when the train moves fast. So why is this not possible as the Raiwlay board chief Shri Mittal is on record that there is nothing can do about the problem of empty rakes and that is how Railways around the world are run.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 11 Jun 2016 16:13

Bengaluru-Mumbai train route will soon get shorter

The train journey between Bengaluru and Mumbai is all set to come down by four-five hours in the near future with the state government deciding to expedite work on the new Tumakuru-Davanagere railway line.

The new rail route, which will be laid through Sira and Chitradurga towns, will put the brakes on the current circuitous route that the Bengaluru-Mumbai trains take. At present, trains from Bengaluru reach Tumakuru and meander through interior places such as Tiptur, Arsikere, Birur and Chikkajajur, and reach Davanagere before proceeding towards Hubli and Mumbai. The circuitous route is 326 km (from Bengaluru to Davanagere) and is time-consuming.

But the new rail-route would run on a straight line from Tumakuru to Davanagere via Sira, Hiriyur and Chitradurga. The distance on this route (from Bengaluru to Davanagere) will be only 265 km.

Though the project was mooted six years ago and politicians from the state, including the then minister of state for railways KH Muniyappa, had promised to finish work early, nothing concrete happened on the ground. However, the state cabinet gave the project another lease of life on Wednesday by fast-tracking it.

Speaking to reporters here, law minister TB Jayachandra (in pic) said 2,035 acres of land will be required for the Rs 1,801 crore project and a green signal has been given for the land acquisition process.Funding for the new rail-route will be sourced from the royalty collected from the mining sector of the Ballari region . Jayachandra said: "The Supreme Court has clearly stated that the money collected from iron-ore exports should be used for development activities in the region. We have around Rs 4,000 - 5,000 crore from the mining sector. We have decided to use these funds as the new rail-route will be passing through the three districts where mining activity happens." Moreover, the new route will also reduce the traffic on the current route, which also accommodate trains plying towards Shivamogga.

Jayachandra is keen on speeding up work as the new rail route passes through his home constituency of Sira.


Once this new line is completed and the Pune-Miraj-Londa line is doubled, Bangalore-Mumbai travel should become much quicker.
Last edited by Kashi on 11 Jun 2016 16:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 11 Jun 2016 16:19

Railways
Rail platforms become cyber cafes for small-town India; commuters using Google-RailTel's WiFi networks for heavy downloads
By Neha Alawadhi, ET Bureau | 11 Jun, 2016, 06:16 hrs IST
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Data from 15 stations reveals that railway commuters in tier-II cities are streaming movies, upgrading phone software and conducting other heavy-duty downloads using these networks.
NEW DELHI: Railway stations may be the next cyber cafes of small-town India. Unlike in big cities where broadband access is more plentiful, people from India's smaller towns are finding that walking into a railway station is a gateway to high-speed Internet access, and they are making the best use of it.

Data from 15 stations, where Google has installed high-speed WiFi networks, reveals that railway commuters in tier-II cities are streaming movies, upgrading phone software and conducting other heavy-duty downloads using these networks.

"We are focussing on not just high download speeds but also streaming speeds because the highest usage comes from applications such as videos, upgrading phone software, uploading high-quality pictures and other heavy downloads," Gulzar Azad, head of access, Google India, told ETin an exclusive chat.
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Pleasant Surprise for Google As a result, stations in tier-II cities consumed 20 times more data than those in tier-I cities, say Google officials, who add that absolute number of users logging into Google's WiFi networks in smaller cities has pleasantly surprised them.

"After Mumbai Central in January, we did a big launch in Bhubaneswar (station), which overtook Mumbai Central within a day of the launch (in terms of) consumption," said Azad. Mumbai Central, one of the busiest stations in the metropolis, had 1,00,000 users of the network per week. Bhubaneswar surpassed that mark in a day.

"Similar usage patterns started to emerge in tier-II cities like Patna, Jaipur, Ranchi and so on," said Azad. In September 2015, Google had tied up with Indian Railways and its telecom arm RailTel to provide high-speed WiFi coverage in 400 stations. RailTel has 45,000 km of fibre optic network across the country that Google is hopping on to for its WiFi network.

Google says it has rolled out the service in 15 stations so far, including towns such as Kacheguda, Raipur, Ranchi and Ujjain. The company says it has over 4,30,000 users on the network every week, up from the over 3,00,000 users last month. By the end of the year, Google plans to roll out the WiFi service in 100 cities across the country. In aweek, Google plans to connect Gorakhpur, Lucknow Junction and Sealdah stations.

Whatever be the reason — poor quality of mobile data networks or the famous Indian love for freebies —rail commuters are bingeing on free data. The average user is consuming 10 times more data than he would consume on a 3G pack in a day, say Google officials. To put that in context, industry reports suggest that users consume about 25 MB of 3G data in a day. That would put average user consumption of data in stations at about a staggering 250 MB per day. That, despite being in "a transit environment".

The rollout of WiFi hasn't been without challenges for Google. Each station throws up its own set of issues: from power availability to people density to the very architecture of the station. For example, Gorakhpur has one of the world's longest railway platforms (1.35 km).

"Many of these stations were built during the British era, so they have very high rooftops. Some of them are really big in terms of platform area — some have 16 platforms, some have only a few platforms, which also changes many aspects. Power reliability in Uttar Pradesh, for example, will be different from how it is in Kerala," said Azad, adding that 10-20 teams of design engineers work simultaneously to ensure a uniform experience across all parts of a station.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Arunkumar » 11 Jun 2016 16:28

>>Once this new line is completed and the Pune-Miraj-Londa line is doubled, Bangalore-Mumbai travel should become much quicker.

True. With talgofication the present 24 hr 1000 km torture ride through the desolate plains of gulbarga can be bypassed, with the above route having more greenery and journey time halved to 12 hr making it a overnite journey.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 11 Jun 2016 18:05

The sparse pop of Karnataka from tumakaru to Belgaum and Bijapur has kept political cost of underdevelopment low for blr political elite

Blr mysooru Hassan triangle and mangalore-udupi belt run the show politically


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