Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

Blockchain technology

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Javee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2320
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: NJ

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby Javee » 26 Feb 2017 11:43

Im still struggling to understand what additional information/security that blockchain will provide in Supply chain/trade finance. I understand there are some procurement related use cases. But in traditional supply chain, there are no unknowns today as most provide end to end tracking and the trade terms clearly define ownership of the goods.

And who pays for this network of servers and other resources? It can only work if the countries like the above example or some autonomous industry bodies like European FMD create the base, else why would any private enterprise invest in this??

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4079
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby Neshant » 09 Mar 2017 07:30

^^ I don't get it either.

narmad
BRFite
Posts: 216
Joined: 10 May 2005 09:47
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby narmad » 05 Jun 2017 08:31

Javee wrote:And who pays for this network of servers and other resources? It can only work if the countries like the above example or some autonomous industry bodies like European FMD create the base, else why would any private enterprise invest in this??


https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#what-is-a-full-node

Originally full nodes were also miners, but now you need dedicated hardware for mining with the rising difficulty.
ROI of the node depends on the crypto currency rate.

Now, a full node's contribution to the network is altruistic.

panduranghari
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3568
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 10 Jul 2017 19:08

Javee wrote:Im still struggling to understand what additional information/security that blockchain will provide in Supply chain/trade finance. I understand there are some procurement related use cases. But in traditional supply chain, there are no unknowns today as most provide end to end tracking and the trade terms clearly define ownership of the goods.

And who pays for this network of servers and other resources? It can only work if the countries like the above example or some autonomous industry bodies like European FMD create the base, else why would any private enterprise invest in this??


I am no authority but the way I understand it is- the people investing in the infrastructure are those who would like to decrease the long term cost of doing business. The cost has to be borne by the end customer ultimately.

There are new Initial coin offerings in the cryptocurrency world today. Each kind of performs the same function. Out of the myraid ones etherum and steam stand out because they are doing something parallel without resorting to trying to be the alternative currency to whatever. Let us say Bitcoin is good enough as a currency. But do we really need another one? Perhaps we can do without more or may be we do need many for various seasons of the year.

If Aadhaar is moved to blockchain it will become more secure. And so would finance. But it is still early days and I am as unsure about it as you are.

From Brookings; https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank ... t-matters/

The Blockchain is a foundational technology, like TCP/IP, which enables the Internet. And much like the Internet in the late 1990s, we don’t know exactly how the Blockchain will evolve, but evolve it will.

Similar to the Internet, the Blockchain must also be allowed to grow unencumbered. This will require careful handling that recognizes the difference between the platform and the applications that run on it. TCP/IP empowers numerous financial applications that are regulated, but TCP/IP is not regulated as a financial instrument. The Blockchain should receive similar consideration. While the predominant use case for the Blockchain today is bitcoin currency exchange that may require regulation, this will change over time.

Had we over-regulated the Internet early on, we would have missed out on many innovations that we can’t imagine living without today. The same is true for the Blockchain. Disruptive technologies rarely fit neatly into existing regulatory considerations, but rigid regulatory frameworks have repeatedly stifled innovation. It’s likely that innovations in the Blockchain will outpace policy, let’s not slow it down.

narmad
BRFite
Posts: 216
Joined: 10 May 2005 09:47
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby narmad » 10 Jul 2017 21:21

ETH infra bombed during the recent surge of ICO transactions.

Do you feel its worthwhile to invest into the EOS ICO ?

Steemit is a monetized version of reddit.

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3079
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby vijayk » 11 Jul 2017 08:08

Javee wrote:Im still struggling to understand what additional information/security that blockchain will provide in Supply chain/trade finance. I understand there are some procurement related use cases. But in traditional supply chain, there are no unknowns today as most provide end to end tracking and the trade terms clearly define ownership of the goods.

And who pays for this network of servers and other resources? It can only work if the countries like the above example or some autonomous industry bodies like European FMD create the base, else why would any private enterprise invest in this??


Look at Zero coin, ZCash (Zero Knowledge Proof) technologies

https://blog.cryptographyengineering.co ... ed-primer/
Zcash/ZeroCoin use a technique to hide details of the transactions using these techniques where by nodes can verify transactions (consensus) w/o being able to know the details.

When you do trading/finance the inefficiencies are in settlement

1. Trading: User -> Broker -> Order Management -> Exchange -> Clearing Agency -> (Broker(s), Custodian, Exchange)
2. Bank User: User -> Bank -> Swift/ACH -> Clearing Agency -> Bank2

Both processes can reduce middle agencies and processing by leveraging Blockchain

3. All financial agencies use so many groups that replicate info and reconcile several times. All these recons can be eliminated by using Blockchain
4. Even commercial peer to peer deals between multiple private banks such as Derivatives can leverage BC to eliminate manual processing
5. Smart contracts can provide automated processing based on rules/events

Notary verification (Immutability) is a use case of Blockchain. You can take a document/generate one way hash code and store with time stamp in Blockchain. Any time you can verify the document signature and make sure it was recorded in BC at a given time there by proving that document existed at a give point. This can be used to verify copyrights, FIRs, Judgement records, and land records or any digitized title.

Aadhar is a middle agency centralizing the data. You have to decentralize Aadhar data by using nodes. Each Aadhar becomes a token and recorded in BC and linked to an identity. A user uses his private key (or biometric info) to sign an authorization.

panduranghari
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3568
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 22 Jul 2017 14:28

narmad wrote:ETH infra bombed during the recent surge of ICO transactions.

Do you feel its worthwhile to invest into the EOS ICO ?

Steemit is a monetized version of reddit.


I am not interested in cryptocurrencies per se. The exponential curve in the valuations suggests a bubble. Besides the technology is in infancy.

There is an interesting debate between Tuur Deemster who is long Bitcoin, short Ethereum and Vitalik Buterin who is long Ethereum, short Bitcoin.

Bitcoin protocol is based on the concept of Proof of Work (PoW).
Ethereum protocol is based on the concept of Proof of Stake (PoS).

My understanding is PoS is a currency system and PoW is the currency itself. Both the proponents hate the government. IMO thats stupid. Without governmental input, it wont work.

https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/a-pr ... 6585978d51
These cryptoeconomic networks come in many flavors — ASIC-based PoW, GPU-based PoW, naive PoS, delegated PoS, hopefully soon Casper PoS — and each of these flavors inevitably comes with its own underlying philosophy.

panduranghari
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3568
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 22 Jul 2017 14:36

vijayk you may be on to something. Can you contact Pramod Verma on twitter. He is clued up and in position of authority.

panduranghari
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3568
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 22 Jul 2017 14:56

3 E's of Sybil Resistance;
E1 - Entry cost
E2 - Existence cost
E3 - Exit cost.

From Wikipedia;
In a Sybil attack, the attacker subverts the reputation system of a peer-to-peer network by creating a large number of pseudonymous identities, using them to gain a disproportionately large influence. A reputation system's vulnerability to a Sybil attack depends on how cheaply identities can be generated, the degree to which the reputation system accepts inputs from entities that do not have a chain of trust linking them to a trusted entity, and whether the reputation system treats all entities identically.


Bitcoin has no E3. You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave.

https://dfinity.network/ Ethereum has all 3 E's.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6608
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby Mort Walker » 22 Jul 2017 18:20

Neshant wrote:
As long as other private blockchain currencies can exist alongside the digital rupee, I'm OK with it.

If govt's intention is to use it as a means to confiscate peoples' earnings & savings at will, then no thanks.


Not just governments, but corporations using it to confiscate monies is a problem too.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9611
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby pankajs » 30 Aug 2017 16:33

I am no expert on blockchain/bitcoins. I have never read up on blockchain/bitcoins. The bits that I absorbed were because of headline in the *normal* news channels that i couldn't aviod. This is to set out my total ignorance on the matter beyond the name and a bit of this and that all based on headlines only.

With that clear, I did bump into some posts in the past claiming that bitcoin provided anonymity. I don't even remember whose post it was or what thread. I had heard of public ledger and it kind of made me wonder why would something that had a *public* ledger not be accessible to a determined government. Beyond that question I had no interest and did no further research to answer that question one way or the other.

It so happened that I was listening to a podcast around Angel investing and the guy being interviewed was the CEO of a BlockChain startup. On anonymity he commented that the lead prosecutor in the Silk Road case had joked that "he wished everyone was committing their crimes on bitcoin". The case provided the perfect jump off point so followed it this time.

https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/14/7546 ... n-tracking
In the Silk Road trial, Bitcoin is a cop’s best friend
The same features that kept Ross Ulbricht anonymous might now send him to jail
The same features that made Silk Road possible have now turned against him, and casual observers are realizing that Bitcoin isn’t as anonymous as they thought. The public Bitcoin ledger details Ulbricht's enormous financial holdings and a wealth of potentially incriminating transactions. Now that his wallet address has been discovered, the perfect anonymity tool has turned into the perfect source of evidence. Skeptics sometimes called the currency "prosecution futures," and now it looks like some of those futures are coming due.

<snip>

As a result, all the prosecution has to do is prove Ulbricht was profiting off the Silk Road's drug transactions — something that Bitcoin's public blockchain makes it easy to do. Every Bitcoin transaction is publicly recorded in the collective blockchain, giving researchers an easy view of how much is in any account at a given time. "Bitcoin is insanely traceable," says Nicholas Weaver, a researcher at UC Berkeley's International Computer Science Institute. "The Silk Road bitcoins are well known, not just the ones seized but the entire cloud of Bitcoins.

IF you are into bitcoins or ether for anonymity banish that thought.

vickyiyer
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 5
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 11:34

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby vickyiyer » 31 Aug 2017 16:48

For those that are in Bangalore and interested in the Blockchain eco system, there is a "World Blockchain Summit - 2017" on 7th and 8th of Sept. I am myself spending sometime off late in understanding Blockchain and the various technologies that make it. One good video I found was by this gentleman called william mougayar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl1U0Mu0qEU . To get started on the technology side have a look at this this video series from khan academy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-w7SnQ ... zzC0zu_3OS quite basic but very approachable.

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3079
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby vijayk » 31 Aug 2017 17:11

panduranghari wrote:vijayk you may be on to something. Can you contact Pramod Verma on twitter. He is clued up and in position of authority.


What is his Id? Could not find

panduranghari
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3568
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 31 Aug 2017 18:11

@pramodkvarma is his id.

SBajwa
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4518
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 21:35
Location: Attari

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby SBajwa » 01 Sep 2017 19:10

If you guys are familiar with General Ledger then think of a Bitcoin as a public general ledger where all transactions are public.

panduranghari
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3568
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 29 Oct 2017 16:06

We need to rename the thread as Distributed Ledger Technologies.

This is because there is a new technology which supercedes blockchain itself. It is called Hashgraph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrFrXFd ... e=youtu.be

Bitcoin based on blockchain had issues with its proof of work status. Its constantly forking. So two different chains can grow independently of each other and eventually one has to accept a name change and become a derivative of the original. The problem is 1/1200 of planets electricity usage is being used to solve useless mathematics problems and thus mine bitcoins.

Vitaly Butterin invented ethereum to eliminate the issues with proof of work and hence ethereum works of proof of stake which still needs blockchain. The problem with proof of stake is though less usage of electricity, transaction cost is high (equal to bitcoin). Current SWIFT network permits the transaction cost to be less than a paisa. Blockchain on the contrary needs more than a dollar in transaction cost.

How about if blockchain itself is made redundant?

And that is what hashgraph is.

Ethereum founder was asked to finds faults in hashgraph and he could not find one flaw. So all these guys like Tuur Deemster et al who are just pushing bitcoin as a new gold and suddenly got so full of themselves will have to eat crow. We constantly hear the bitcoiners saying how we need to make it more democratic.

Well here is hashgraph which is better than democratic.

And whats more is 300 plus credit unions in the US are already using hashgraph and if rumours are to be believed eBay is moving its engine to hashgraph.

manju
BRFite
Posts: 632
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: CA, USA

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby manju » 19 Jan 2018 11:07

so much fluctuation in bitcoin.. no one interested.. the learned ones, we wait for thy utterings!!

KrishnaK
BRFite
Posts: 886
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 23:00

Re: Blockchain technology

Postby KrishnaK » 20 Jan 2018 00:18

manju wrote:so much fluctuation in bitcoin.. no one interested.. the learned ones, we wait for thy utterings!!


Buffett on cryptocurrencies: 'I can say almost with certainty that they will come to a bad ending'


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests