Blockchain technology

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Javee
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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby Javee » 26 Feb 2017 11:43

Im still struggling to understand what additional information/security that blockchain will provide in Supply chain/trade finance. I understand there are some procurement related use cases. But in traditional supply chain, there are no unknowns today as most provide end to end tracking and the trade terms clearly define ownership of the goods.

And who pays for this network of servers and other resources? It can only work if the countries like the above example or some autonomous industry bodies like European FMD create the base, else why would any private enterprise invest in this??

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby Neshant » 09 Mar 2017 07:30

^^ I don't get it either.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby narmad » 05 Jun 2017 08:31

Javee wrote:And who pays for this network of servers and other resources? It can only work if the countries like the above example or some autonomous industry bodies like European FMD create the base, else why would any private enterprise invest in this??


https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#what-is-a-full-node

Originally full nodes were also miners, but now you need dedicated hardware for mining with the rising difficulty.
ROI of the node depends on the crypto currency rate.

Now, a full node's contribution to the network is altruistic.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 10 Jul 2017 19:08

Javee wrote:Im still struggling to understand what additional information/security that blockchain will provide in Supply chain/trade finance. I understand there are some procurement related use cases. But in traditional supply chain, there are no unknowns today as most provide end to end tracking and the trade terms clearly define ownership of the goods.

And who pays for this network of servers and other resources? It can only work if the countries like the above example or some autonomous industry bodies like European FMD create the base, else why would any private enterprise invest in this??


I am no authority but the way I understand it is- the people investing in the infrastructure are those who would like to decrease the long term cost of doing business. The cost has to be borne by the end customer ultimately.

There are new Initial coin offerings in the cryptocurrency world today. Each kind of performs the same function. Out of the myraid ones etherum and steam stand out because they are doing something parallel without resorting to trying to be the alternative currency to whatever. Let us say Bitcoin is good enough as a currency. But do we really need another one? Perhaps we can do without more or may be we do need many for various seasons of the year.

If Aadhaar is moved to blockchain it will become more secure. And so would finance. But it is still early days and I am as unsure about it as you are.

From Brookings; https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank ... t-matters/

The Blockchain is a foundational technology, like TCP/IP, which enables the Internet. And much like the Internet in the late 1990s, we don’t know exactly how the Blockchain will evolve, but evolve it will.

Similar to the Internet, the Blockchain must also be allowed to grow unencumbered. This will require careful handling that recognizes the difference between the platform and the applications that run on it. TCP/IP empowers numerous financial applications that are regulated, but TCP/IP is not regulated as a financial instrument. The Blockchain should receive similar consideration. While the predominant use case for the Blockchain today is bitcoin currency exchange that may require regulation, this will change over time.

Had we over-regulated the Internet early on, we would have missed out on many innovations that we can’t imagine living without today. The same is true for the Blockchain. Disruptive technologies rarely fit neatly into existing regulatory considerations, but rigid regulatory frameworks have repeatedly stifled innovation. It’s likely that innovations in the Blockchain will outpace policy, let’s not slow it down.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby narmad » 10 Jul 2017 21:21

ETH infra bombed during the recent surge of ICO transactions.

Do you feel its worthwhile to invest into the EOS ICO ?

Steemit is a monetized version of reddit.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby vijayk » 11 Jul 2017 08:08

Javee wrote:Im still struggling to understand what additional information/security that blockchain will provide in Supply chain/trade finance. I understand there are some procurement related use cases. But in traditional supply chain, there are no unknowns today as most provide end to end tracking and the trade terms clearly define ownership of the goods.

And who pays for this network of servers and other resources? It can only work if the countries like the above example or some autonomous industry bodies like European FMD create the base, else why would any private enterprise invest in this??


Look at Zero coin, ZCash (Zero Knowledge Proof) technologies

https://blog.cryptographyengineering.co ... ed-primer/
Zcash/ZeroCoin use a technique to hide details of the transactions using these techniques where by nodes can verify transactions (consensus) w/o being able to know the details.

When you do trading/finance the inefficiencies are in settlement

1. Trading: User -> Broker -> Order Management -> Exchange -> Clearing Agency -> (Broker(s), Custodian, Exchange)
2. Bank User: User -> Bank -> Swift/ACH -> Clearing Agency -> Bank2

Both processes can reduce middle agencies and processing by leveraging Blockchain

3. All financial agencies use so many groups that replicate info and reconcile several times. All these recons can be eliminated by using Blockchain
4. Even commercial peer to peer deals between multiple private banks such as Derivatives can leverage BC to eliminate manual processing
5. Smart contracts can provide automated processing based on rules/events

Notary verification (Immutability) is a use case of Blockchain. You can take a document/generate one way hash code and store with time stamp in Blockchain. Any time you can verify the document signature and make sure it was recorded in BC at a given time there by proving that document existed at a give point. This can be used to verify copyrights, FIRs, Judgement records, and land records or any digitized title.

Aadhar is a middle agency centralizing the data. You have to decentralize Aadhar data by using nodes. Each Aadhar becomes a token and recorded in BC and linked to an identity. A user uses his private key (or biometric info) to sign an authorization.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 22 Jul 2017 14:28

narmad wrote:ETH infra bombed during the recent surge of ICO transactions.

Do you feel its worthwhile to invest into the EOS ICO ?

Steemit is a monetized version of reddit.


I am not interested in cryptocurrencies per se. The exponential curve in the valuations suggests a bubble. Besides the technology is in infancy.

There is an interesting debate between Tuur Deemster who is long Bitcoin, short Ethereum and Vitalik Buterin who is long Ethereum, short Bitcoin.

Bitcoin protocol is based on the concept of Proof of Work (PoW).
Ethereum protocol is based on the concept of Proof of Stake (PoS).

My understanding is PoS is a currency system and PoW is the currency itself. Both the proponents hate the government. IMO thats stupid. Without governmental input, it wont work.

https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/a-pr ... 6585978d51
These cryptoeconomic networks come in many flavors — ASIC-based PoW, GPU-based PoW, naive PoS, delegated PoS, hopefully soon Casper PoS — and each of these flavors inevitably comes with its own underlying philosophy.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 22 Jul 2017 14:36

vijayk you may be on to something. Can you contact Pramod Verma on twitter. He is clued up and in position of authority.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 22 Jul 2017 14:56

3 E's of Sybil Resistance;
E1 - Entry cost
E2 - Existence cost
E3 - Exit cost.

From Wikipedia;
In a Sybil attack, the attacker subverts the reputation system of a peer-to-peer network by creating a large number of pseudonymous identities, using them to gain a disproportionately large influence. A reputation system's vulnerability to a Sybil attack depends on how cheaply identities can be generated, the degree to which the reputation system accepts inputs from entities that do not have a chain of trust linking them to a trusted entity, and whether the reputation system treats all entities identically.


Bitcoin has no E3. You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave.

https://dfinity.network/ Ethereum has all 3 E's.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby Mort Walker » 22 Jul 2017 18:20

Neshant wrote:
As long as other private blockchain currencies can exist alongside the digital rupee, I'm OK with it.

If govt's intention is to use it as a means to confiscate peoples' earnings & savings at will, then no thanks.


Not just governments, but corporations using it to confiscate monies is a problem too.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby pankajs » 30 Aug 2017 16:33

I am no expert on blockchain/bitcoins. I have never read up on blockchain/bitcoins. The bits that I absorbed were because of headline in the *normal* news channels that i couldn't aviod. This is to set out my total ignorance on the matter beyond the name and a bit of this and that all based on headlines only.

With that clear, I did bump into some posts in the past claiming that bitcoin provided anonymity. I don't even remember whose post it was or what thread. I had heard of public ledger and it kind of made me wonder why would something that had a *public* ledger not be accessible to a determined government. Beyond that question I had no interest and did no further research to answer that question one way or the other.

It so happened that I was listening to a podcast around Angel investing and the guy being interviewed was the CEO of a BlockChain startup. On anonymity he commented that the lead prosecutor in the Silk Road case had joked that "he wished everyone was committing their crimes on bitcoin". The case provided the perfect jump off point so followed it this time.

https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/14/7546 ... n-tracking
In the Silk Road trial, Bitcoin is a cop’s best friend
The same features that kept Ross Ulbricht anonymous might now send him to jail
The same features that made Silk Road possible have now turned against him, and casual observers are realizing that Bitcoin isn’t as anonymous as they thought. The public Bitcoin ledger details Ulbricht's enormous financial holdings and a wealth of potentially incriminating transactions. Now that his wallet address has been discovered, the perfect anonymity tool has turned into the perfect source of evidence. Skeptics sometimes called the currency "prosecution futures," and now it looks like some of those futures are coming due.

<snip>

As a result, all the prosecution has to do is prove Ulbricht was profiting off the Silk Road's drug transactions — something that Bitcoin's public blockchain makes it easy to do. Every Bitcoin transaction is publicly recorded in the collective blockchain, giving researchers an easy view of how much is in any account at a given time. "Bitcoin is insanely traceable," says Nicholas Weaver, a researcher at UC Berkeley's International Computer Science Institute. "The Silk Road bitcoins are well known, not just the ones seized but the entire cloud of Bitcoins.

IF you are into bitcoins or ether for anonymity banish that thought.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby vickyiyer » 31 Aug 2017 16:48

For those that are in Bangalore and interested in the Blockchain eco system, there is a "World Blockchain Summit - 2017" on 7th and 8th of Sept. I am myself spending sometime off late in understanding Blockchain and the various technologies that make it. One good video I found was by this gentleman called william mougayar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl1U0Mu0qEU . To get started on the technology side have a look at this this video series from khan academy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-w7SnQ ... zzC0zu_3OS quite basic but very approachable.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby vijayk » 31 Aug 2017 17:11

panduranghari wrote:vijayk you may be on to something. Can you contact Pramod Verma on twitter. He is clued up and in position of authority.


What is his Id? Could not find

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 31 Aug 2017 18:11

@pramodkvarma is his id.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby SBajwa » 01 Sep 2017 19:10

If you guys are familiar with General Ledger then think of a Bitcoin as a public general ledger where all transactions are public.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 29 Oct 2017 16:06

We need to rename the thread as Distributed Ledger Technologies.

This is because there is a new technology which supercedes blockchain itself. It is called Hashgraph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrFrXFd ... e=youtu.be

Bitcoin based on blockchain had issues with its proof of work status. Its constantly forking. So two different chains can grow independently of each other and eventually one has to accept a name change and become a derivative of the original. The problem is 1/1200 of planets electricity usage is being used to solve useless mathematics problems and thus mine bitcoins.

Vitaly Butterin invented ethereum to eliminate the issues with proof of work and hence ethereum works of proof of stake which still needs blockchain. The problem with proof of stake is though less usage of electricity, transaction cost is high (equal to bitcoin). Current SWIFT network permits the transaction cost to be less than a paisa. Blockchain on the contrary needs more than a dollar in transaction cost.

How about if blockchain itself is made redundant?

And that is what hashgraph is.

Ethereum founder was asked to finds faults in hashgraph and he could not find one flaw. So all these guys like Tuur Deemster et al who are just pushing bitcoin as a new gold and suddenly got so full of themselves will have to eat crow. We constantly hear the bitcoiners saying how we need to make it more democratic.

Well here is hashgraph which is better than democratic.

And whats more is 300 plus credit unions in the US are already using hashgraph and if rumours are to be believed eBay is moving its engine to hashgraph.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby manju » 19 Jan 2018 11:07

so much fluctuation in bitcoin.. no one interested.. the learned ones, we wait for thy utterings!!

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby KrishnaK » 20 Jan 2018 00:18

manju wrote:so much fluctuation in bitcoin.. no one interested.. the learned ones, we wait for thy utterings!!


Buffett on cryptocurrencies: 'I can say almost with certainty that they will come to a bad ending'

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby Neshant » 06 Apr 2018 13:00



Buffett almost came to a bad ending himself in 2008 with massive losses in his companies.

But then he started hollering for a taxpayer funded bailout...

I lost all respect for the man then.

I doubt anyone knows the future of crypto-currencies. The one thing that would not have happened in 2008 if everyone had crypto-currencies is a bailout of Buffet's companies.

Its hard to steal crypto-currencies to do bailouts.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby panduranghari » 07 Apr 2018 13:29

Blockchain - a technology in search of an application.

The narrative is broken. The narrative was decentralised currency to spend without government interference which cannot be inflated away.

Every single investor in this space was playing the price action with a mistaken belief that they can remain anonymous to the tax authorities.

They will tell their grand children the 4 saddest words in finance -"I was rich once".

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby ashish raval » 07 Apr 2018 14:06

There is no room for fiat currencies in the world the idea is not new, the way in which it is implemented is new. It's price will go down because there will be hundreds of new currencies around in next 3-5 years and investors wealth will be distributed among them. It will store the wealth but it is unlikely to be used in real world and digital versions of real currencies in circulation will mean even more competition from currencies backed by debt. Whereas cryptos will be worthless thing backed by greed, fear and electricity usage as underlying. It may start behaving like stocks and commodities but definitely not currencies as they have cryptos have very high volatility.

Technology of Blockchain is exciting and inspiring and will find widespread uses. Lot of research is already ongoing.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby pankajs » 07 Apr 2018 14:37

RBI already studying block-chain ... It will soon launch digital rupee on block chain.

Who says money can't be printed on blockchain? Software/logic that restricts "expansion" of currency on blockchain can be modified to allow for expansion. How tough will it be once the India specific blockchain is incubated/owned/launched by the RBI?

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby Neshant » 08 Apr 2018 03:24

Why would anyone want a digital currency losing value.
Its just as bad as govt-bankster issued fiat currency which people are trying to get away from via crypto-currencies.

A very negative development where govt-banksters are eager to hang on to the ability to rob productive people of society via fiat money and outlaw crypto-currencies. It leads to the rise of rent seekers who produce no value in the economy and base their entire profession (and industry!) around rent seeking instead of producing value.

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby pankajs » 11 Apr 2018 14:33

pankajs wrote:RBI already studying block-chain ... It will soon launch digital rupee on block chain.

Who says money can't be printed on blockchain? Software/logic that restricts "expansion" of currency on blockchain can be modified to allow for expansion. How tough will it be once the India specific blockchain is incubated/owned/launched by the RBI?


Looksy what landed in my news feed ...
https://twitter.com/matt_odell/status/9 ... 6648012801
Matt Odell @matt_odell

"This is not Bitcoin, right? Miners are not in control here. If there comes a day when they have majority hash power and try to use it for evil, then we'll basically just speed up Casper development, and to hell with any bugs." - Vitalik

Source(39:07): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoPfoNpqG0k&t=39m7s
11:23 AM - 10 Apr 2018

Hear/Read it again and again till it is clear what the implication of those words are. Go beyond the words and try to imagine the implication. This is Vitaly Butterin the guy/team behind ethereum.

Forget RBI incubated blockchain for a moment. Anyone who thinks privately built/owned/operated/distributed blockchian can't be manipulated is bonkers. Seems Bitcoing is safe from that defect for the moment.

vijayk
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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby vijayk » 11 Apr 2018 19:51

People can switch to ethereum classic

https://ethereumclassic.github.io/

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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby yensoy » 11 Apr 2018 20:30

IMHO, Blockchain is a solution looking for a problem.

At the core it assumes that there is no single point of truth, potentially a bunch of malevolent agents who don't trust each other and could even conspire. You necessarily need a lot of players to ensure things work and transactions are validated. However there is an implicit assumption that more than 50% cannot collude (for if they do, all bets are off!).

Cost of doing business is not less, in fact it's hugely more than a single point of truth (which could be a database that doesn't delete transaction logs) because everyone has to validate everything all the time.

Anonymity is also not there - since all transactions are logged, you know which ID did what transaction at what time in the past. All you need to do is to figure out which ID belongs to which person, and you can do it by metadata analysis over a period of time.

Roubini has a pretty great take on this (don't get sidetracked to some incorrect terminology, listen to the core message): https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/mar/05/bitcoin-is-based-on-the-blockchain-pipe-dream

I am not talking about crypto currencies here - those are just so ridiculous it makes me wonder why people even take it seriously (though I must admit it has some cool math).

ramana
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Re: Blockchain technology

Postby ramana » 30 Apr 2018 22:33

In Vizag there is a company Zeba Networks already implementing Blockchain technology

Its being used for land registration and hotel reservation right now.


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