Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Suraj »

Deans wrote:1. Far too much money has already some back. As posted earlier, an estimate for 3.79 lac crore in BM was a credible estimate and it was believed most of it would not come back. Now it appears almost all of it would. If the amount not coming back is anything under 100,000 cr. either BM holders have defeated the system, or the amount of BM held in cash has been hopelessly overestimated.
The people are primarily the reason for this. Have you seen this thread and especially the politics threads ? People are hoarding cash *and* demanding that GoI print more cash. They're making the classic mistake of feeding a liquidity crunch with actions that worsen it. And the 'fix' ? Force GoI to print more, a lot of which gets also hoarded or goes right back into black economy.

Beyond a point this is irredeemable madness of crowds behavior. Of course they will self righteously blame the government and ask them to 'do something'. But the situation is primarily created by hoarding. Enabling the existing cash base to circulate better would address problems, but peoples' response to a cash crunch is to hoard the cash instead. There are some notable folks who are doing their bit to do the right thing, but it seems most don't/won't.

I think the Rs.2000 as a honey trap is a good measure as a result. In fact it's quite clever thinking. It pragmatically accepts that people will not see sense and will make counterproductive mistakes collectively that break the very policy measure that benefits them. Therefore, GoI should force 2000s (not 500s) as higher priority into circulation, and then in future, demonetize the 2000 alone. It cleanly 'moves' up the target which in turn minimizes the blowback later. Of course people will scream now 'I don't want the bl00dy pink notes!' but that's to be expected.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20782
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Karan M »

Success!! Got 2K more from an ATM.

First place. Had a 3K bill but dudes refused to accept 4K notes saying no change.

Then in another place got 1500 in 100s for a 500 spend. I also gave them one of my 500s he he after spending another 400. Their reward for helping out. They were happy but many shocked looks from my friend who thought i had hit the jackpot

Now 400 handed over to folks at home for vegetable wali bai, etc. Hunt commences tomorrow to get some more cash to turn around plus have to deposit some more old notes.
Sicanta
BRFite
Posts: 1282
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 11:16

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Sicanta »

Paid kirana shop today with 2k. Got back 1850 with 10 100's notes, rest all Rs 10 notes. The fella had an entire separate cash box comprising of the lower denomination note. Atleast will have no problem in paying local subjiwalla for next 2 weeks.
svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by svinayak »

In one case the owner of a company with BM gave his employees 2-3 lks and asked them to exchange the notes

They can keep 25% of the cash as their reward.


This demonetization has really re distributed the wealth
sudeepj
BRFite
Posts: 1976
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 11:25

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by sudeepj »

Deans wrote:1. Far too much money has already some back. As posted earlier, an estimate for 3.79 lac crore in BM was a credible estimate and it was believed most of it would not come back. Now it appears almost all of it would. If the amount not coming back is anything under 100,000 cr. either BM holders have defeated the system, or the amount of BM held in cash has been hopelessly overestimated. The conventional means of laundering that we have discussed here (which my banker / economist friends agree) like using dormant JDY accounts. salary advances/ loans etc would not account for more than 50,000 cr (net, after people get their cut). Of course, increased deposits mean increased ability to tax unreported income, but given GOI's flip flops I am becoming sceptical of that too. Some of the proposals to tax may not withstand legal challenges.
What is the basis of this theory? Only about 33,000 crores was exchanged over the counter and Jan Dhan accounts saw an influx of ~60,000 Crores. Both these amounts are within reason.

We will find the truth soon enough, but I think majority of white money has already made its way back to the deposits/exchanges and we will see that a large amount be 'extinguished'. We will find out in a few months.
sivab
BRFite
Posts: 1075
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 07:56

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by sivab »



Must watch
uddu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2091
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by uddu »

I am sure, the 500 and 1000 deposit is still hovering around 8.xx lakh crore. The 13 mentioned could be overall transactions of all denominations. And the sudden spike could also be for the kind of deposits that some must have made in Rs.2000 notes for salary payment as well. So let's wait for the RBI data rather than make assumptions and speculate.

DCC banks saw Rs 1,800-crore deposits in just 6 days
Y G Jagadish, Belagavi, Dec 01, 2016, DHNS:

Believe it or not. A jaw-dropping Rs 1,806 crore was deposited in 21 District Central Co-operative (DCC) Banks and Apex Co-operative Banks in a span of six days between November 9 and 13 this year in the state.

The state co-operation department has no clue about the source of such huge deposits. Department officials are wondering whether it is black money or legally earned money of members, who are mostly farmers. Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced demonetisation of high-value currency notes on November 8.

However, it is common knowledge that the co-operation sector is controlled by politicians in Karnataka. A majority of the DCC banks are headed by either politicians or their close relatives.

Among DCC banks, Belagavi and Tumakuru have reported highest deposits of Rs 348 crore and Rs 100 crore respectively during this period. Official sources in the department said the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) had initially not made it mandatory for people to disclose their Permanent Account Number (PAN) for depositing money in co-operative banks. Hence, a large number of people flocked to the co-operative banks.

When the RBI learnt about huge deposits in co-operative banks, it issued a circular on November 14, directing these banks not to take deposits under the demonetisation scheme. Subsequently, Chief Minister Siddaramaiah wrote two separate letters to Union Finance Minister Arun Jaitley urging him to allow co-operative banks to carry out transactions under the schemes.

This apart, it has emerged that co-operative banks had deposited about Rs 1,262 crore of the Rs 1,806 crore in various nationalised banks between November 9 and 17, as part of the exercise to change old currency notes with new ones. The RBI stopped these banks from doing so by issuing another circular on November 17.

Around Rs 538 crore is still left with the co-operative banks in the state. The banks have now sought the RBI’s direction on how to handle the money that is left with them, the sources added.

So what's left is 538 crore. Remaining 1262 crores turned white, overnight.
Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Suraj »

Depositing money at the co-operative bank doesn't 'turn it white overnight'. That the RBI and IT department will determine.
shyamal
BRFite
Posts: 532
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by shyamal »

So, all in all, its seems the first day passed ok. No news of any wide-scale violence etc.
I just wish the govt had printed and distributed 500s instead of 2000. That would have eliminated 90% of the rumblings/trouble of the last 2 weeks.
jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5727
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by jamwal »

Since 9th Nov, I have spent around INR 20000 in 10, 20, 50 , 100, 500, 2000 notes. Just got metro card recharged with old 500 note today.

I was lucky to get 100 and 10 rupees bundles worth 14000 a few days after announcement and got 8000 in 2000 notes a few days later. Spent all of it on work related and some personal expenses. Utilised card wherever possible.

Now going to bank tomorrow to deposit some 1000 rupees notes and to withdraw some money at same time. Only a few 100 rupees worth of cash left. Hopin g that the long line would be worth it.
shyamal
BRFite
Posts: 532
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by shyamal »

I don't know - It seems Delhi and Blr are having a much worse experience than a completely third grade city like Kolkata.
Since 8th Nov I have visited ATM only twice - that too opportunistic visits. I was shopping and noticed an ATM being refilled and just 4-5 people in queue. I stood in queue and with drew money within 20 mins both times. Never had to stand long queues.

For month end cash withdrawal - made the mistake of visiting bank around 1 pm on two days. Both days cash got over before I could enter through the doors(after waiting for 20-30 mins).
The 3rd day I was determined and reached bank before 9.30am. I was on queue after 4 people. I could smoothly withdraw cash in 10 mins. I could have withdrawn till 24000 but I withdrew only 16000. I do not need more cash.
Also I have been able to get change for 2000s everytime I tried(in known places) - so along with one ATM withdrawal(the other was a 2000) and previous 100s and change obtained, I have a very comfortable 100s supply.

I do not need to visit the bank till Dec end.

My experience seems to be quite different from those in Delhi and Blr.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20782
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Karan M »

You must have read about this.
http://www.ndtv.com/bangalore-news/beng ... ni-1632774

Perhaps there is artificial bottling up of notes by vested interests. Or the scale of demand in Blr is very high. Or both.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20782
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Karan M »

VikasRaina wrote:
KJo wrote:People want fixes to situations but are not willing to put up with inconveniences. Nothing in life is free. Modi is conducting emergency surgery, so there will be some recovery and pain for long term health.
KJo, All our lives, we Indians have put up with inconveniences, When did we have life of milk and Honey. Hasnt every Govt promised pot of Gold at the end of misery and hardships.
Problem is that Modi has raised the expectations as if we will see a new dawn come January'17 and if this DeMo drive does not provide results quickly, We have seen that People do tend to go back to other options.
Telling someone who is already reeling under all the corruption and incompetence of the Govt agencies that there will be more pain but long term health will cause 2004 'Shining India' deja vu all over again for BJP.
Yes Sir, we are impatient people since Patience hasn't fetched us anything till now :(( :((
We need some perspective. Standing in a line for cash and that's inconvenient. Compare to this.
http://www.timesnow.tv/india/video/salu ... ingh/52515
The family said that they are proud of their son who laid down his life trying to save the 16 people who the terrorists tried holding hostage in Nagrota. The martyr's mother said she is proud that her son joined the Army and sacrificed his life for the country. The brave heart's wife has urged the government to strongly counter the terror attacks so that more children don't have to suffer.

Seven Army personnel, including two Major-rank officer, were martyred in the terror attack at the military station in Nagrota, on the outskirts of Jammu city on November 29.
I get where you are coming from. But posts like those of TKiran's are .. less words the better.
vnms
BRFite
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 01:56

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by vnms »

The problem with people like TKiran is that they think that they are smarter than the rest of us. All he has proved is that he is more immoral than the rest of us.
hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5168
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by hanumadu »

pankajs wrote:Just the conclusion quoted below but those who want the details dive in

http://www.livemint.com/Industry/TILnOG ... ikely.html
Are Jan Dhan accounts being misused? Unlikely, shows data

While we are comparing two different time intervals here, it suggests the increase in balance in Jan Dhan accounts is not extraordinary—on aggregate, they are being used to the same extent as non-Jan Dhan bank accounts.
But if x% of new deposits in regular bank accounts is black money, then x% of new deposits in JD accts will also be black money.
hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5168
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by hanumadu »

sudeepj wrote:
What is the basis of this theory? Only about 33,000 crores was exchanged over the counter and Jan Dhan accounts saw an influx of ~60,000 Crores. Both these amounts are within reason.

We will find the truth soon enough, but I think majority of white money has already made its way back to the deposits/exchanges and we will see that a large amount be 'extinguished'. We will find out in a few months.
Its only 30000 crores.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by SaiK »

The biggest problem with Indics is they want to follow Sharia law by illegal practice and keep everything best in the world for Vikas. Impossible.

People hate paying IT, GST and find ways to pay by cash always to escape taxes. This is the biggest black money and not paki hawala market.

WE have to go cashless to show vikas
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by g.sarkar »

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/i-t-d ... 161201.htm
I-T dept seizes over Rs 4 cr in new notes in Bengaluru
In the biggest seizure of cash in new currency post demonetisation, the income tax department on Thursday confiscated over Rs 4 crore during searches in a dozen premises in Bengaluru and other locations.
Officials said the searches were launched on the premises of two engineers, working with the state government, and some "connected persons".
A team of over 50 I-T sleuths and police personnel launched operations early morning and searched premises in Bengaluru, Chennai and Erode (Tamil Nadu).
"During the course of searches Rs 4.7 crore cash in new denominations of Rs 2000 and 30 lakhs in old/smaller denominations totalling Rs 5 crore and 7 kg bullion worth approximately Rs 2 crore were found in a flat owned by a civil contractor.
"The new notes and bullion are learnt to have been obtained by exchange of demonetised notes by payment of commission of an engineer and a contractor," the Central Board of Direct Taxes, the policy-making body of the tax department, said in a statement.
The sleuths also seized some notes of Rs 100, demonetised notes of Rs 500 and a few gold biscuits during the operation, it said, adding the department had to call in note counting machines and additional staff to ascertain the value of the cash.
What has surprised the tax authorities is the sheer amount of new currency stashed by these individuals at a time when new notes are not available to the common public which is queueing up to withdraw even small amounts from their accounts.
.....
Gautam
Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1409
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Rishirishi »

Some observations.

1
Most of they old notes will come back. People with BM will sell it to people who are able to deposit it, at a discount. Hence at least 25-30% of the BM gets new owners. That is good.

2
Banking and cashless systems get a boost.

3
The rupee will loose credability. A lot of people may choose to hold dollars or gold in stead of keeping INR. This is bad.

4
Businesses and people will swith back to cashpayments once there is sufficient currency arround. Prices will be lower if you use INR notes, as it is Tax free.


All in all, i do not think the demonetisation will have an effect on the BM alone. It is a good step towards a bank driven economy. But to sustain it, it is essentail to come up with more measures.

In my opinion only RS 50 notes should be allowed. This is to ensure people with very small economy have an alternative. And all transactions above Rs 1000 should be electronic. Imagine paying RS 10 lacs in RS 50 notes :shock:

People should be told of the bacteria that is transferred via notes. Imagine how many hands the notes may have changed.
vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8831
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by vijayk »

I helped my brother get Paytm set up. Linked his debit card. There is A limit of 20k on paytm. Why?

He also now can pay uber and electricity /train bookings etc from paytm.

The problem with middle class is inertia. They don't want to know. They want someone to figure it out and tell them.
ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5351
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by ShauryaT »

Rishirishi wrote: In my opinion only RS 50 notes should be allowed. This is to ensure people with very small economy have an alternative. And all transactions above Rs 1000 should be electronic. Imagine paying RS 10 lacs in RS 50 notes :shock:
That type of an outcome means a disaster for India. What India would be effectively saying is, it does not trust its legal tender. It does not trust its people with that tender. Thankfully GOI knows the above is not in its interests or practical and hence 100, 500, 2000 are all in the mix. One more attack on the currency and you can almost guarantee the USD will become the unofficial currency of India, like Burma has done or as happens in economies where there is no faith in the value of its own currency.
Gus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8220
Joined: 07 May 2005 02:30

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Gus »

Rupee will lose credibility?

Why? If at all, it will gain in value due to reduced inflation and more authenticity because of no fakes.

And who are these foreigners holding INR in cash that are now having no credibility on INR? Dawood Bhai? I could care less about their plight.
Gus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8220
Joined: 07 May 2005 02:30

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Gus »

Nobody is going to trade in USD domestically and take the risk of exchange rate fluctuations. Are people even thinking through on some of these "thoughts" ...
Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9373
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Hari Seldon »

^+1. Wonder when this dhaga will meet its 108.
Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Suraj »

ShauryaT wrote:One more attack on the currency and you can almost guarantee the USD will become the unofficial currency of India, like Burma has done or as happens in economies where there is no faith in the value of its own currency.
What were all the previous attacks on the Indian currency ? :)
surendra
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 14
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 23:12

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by surendra »

While this demonetisation is a good step in unearthing existing BM and preventing its circulation, Modi needs to address future generation of BM. Setting limits on private ownership of unaccounted gold is a good step. Babus are already asking for payments in gold.

To prevent this Modi needs ban all cash transactions at gold/jewelry shops. If he can move all real estate and jewelry/gold transactions to cashless, it would be a big step in generating BM via corruption.
ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5351
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by ShauryaT »

Suraj wrote:
ShauryaT wrote:One more attack on the currency and you can almost guarantee the USD will become the unofficial currency of India, like Burma has done or as happens in economies where there is no faith in the value of its own currency.
What were all the previous attacks on the Indian currency ? :)
Nothing much just about 86% denotified :(
Lilo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4080
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 09:08

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Lilo »

ShauryaT wrote:
Suraj wrote: What were all the previous attacks on the Indian currency ? :)
Nothing much just about 86% denotified :(
Its an "attack" on currency if govt goes on a note printing binge to finance its deficit - like it was the norm in the 70's & 80's.
Ignoring that & mischaracterizing demonetization as an "attack" on currency is obviously wrong.
Demonetisation is simple exchange of old notes with new notes.
The direct cost is the new note printing cost - its Rs 12,000 crore per RBI.
Another direct cost is that of time & effort doing that onetime exchange for the 99.99% law abiding citizens.
The short term lack of liquidity in the economy and the resulting inefficiency of market is the indirect cost borne by the informal sector and all its consumers.

Rest are all benefits which far outweigh costs and are too numerous to list.
Last edited by Lilo on 02 Dec 2016 07:28, edited 1 time in total.
ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5351
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by ShauryaT »

Sachin wrote: Also how can we say that the BM folks have "defeated the system"? They have just deposited their money into the accounts, and that automatically does NOT make their entire black money into white money. They would have "defeated the system", if through favourable judgements etc. each BM hoarder manages to get back his entire deposit, without paying any penalty at all. If that happens we can for sure say that they have neatly laundered all their black money.
Let us follow that thought. What is your confidence level that IT officers will not be corrupt. Percentage of officers or cases that they go after and do not settle for corruption money? What has been your information on this topic from sources of information you can trust. The number of people, who have had such investigations and the end result of these? You are right though if the man power and will power to go after these suspects exists and if there is no corrupt settlement then the BM that has been laundered will be eventually taxed/penalized.

Now, I will share this with you. When a government in the past has gone after a set of suspect entities as a group, the group usually does not sit idle. In India much of these entities are still closed knit groups and these group will react. In the past, such reactions have been highly organized affairs and are then dealt directly with the high and mighty to call the dogs off. Let us see, where all of this leads to.
Rishi Verma
BRFite
Posts: 1019
Joined: 28 Oct 2016 13:08

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Rishi Verma »

There is an army coup in India and the rest of the country ignoring it

:rotfl:

Mamta Guarding Indian Democracy against Army Takeover
"Very unfortunate. Army stationed in front of Nabanna the Bengal State Secretariat in a high security zone, inspite of Police objection... I am waiting here at the Secretariat and watching, to guard our democracy," Ms Banerjee tweeted.
No wonder Mamta and Kejri are chummies
Ok here I invent, trademark, copyright a new meme "mejri"
Last edited by Rishi Verma on 02 Dec 2016 08:08, edited 1 time in total.
rohiths
BRFite
Posts: 404
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 21:51

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by rohiths »

There is always some leakage in gigantic schemes like demonetization. However the black money holders will bear substantial losses one way or another. If they launder their money, they will have to pay commission to the intermediaries and the commissions are more than 30%. If they bribe income tax officers or bank officers even then they will lose 30%. There is no scenario in which the black money holders will not lose some money at least. Also the higher quantity you hold, the more difficult it will be to launder and higher will be the losses. People with cash in hundreds of crores will find lose at least 50% of their stock.

There is also another thread going that the cash component of unaccounted wealth is only 5%. The rest would be in real estate. If we assume that 3 lakh crores is the amount of black wealth in cash, this means that 60 lakh crores would be the black wealth in real-estate. This would be close to a trillion dollars and would amount to ~10 billion sq ft or 1000 sq km of property in urban areas. This is a staggeringly high number and it is unlikely to be the case.

Given this, I believe that the demonetization exercise has given a very strong blow to the existing black wealth in the country and will result in redistribution of this illegal wealth and will result in a greater welfare for the public
Rishi Verma
BRFite
Posts: 1019
Joined: 28 Oct 2016 13:08

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Rishi Verma »

Another giant step towards Cashless Government...

Total e-purchases by GoI
The Indian government currently uses a tender system to buy everything from paper and cars to defense equipment. This restricts buyers to local suppliers and allows possible price manipulations or cartelization, according to Binoy Kumar, top bureaucrat at the Directorate General of Supplies and Disposal that handles state purchases worth 100 billion rupees in a fiscal year.

The new system allows vendors across India to bid for any government purchase. India's finance ministry changed rules to allow payments within 10 days of the purchase, a move that will free suppliers from the average wait of about two months for recoveries or harassment from corrupt officials.
PS I personally know cases when one gov entity sends payment invoice to another gov entity and the account payable dept just sit on it until a favour is curried to get paid!!!
SaraLax
BRFite
Posts: 528
Joined: 01 Nov 2005 21:15
Location: redemption land

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by SaraLax »

Rishi Verma wrote:There is an army coup in India and the rest of the country ignoring it

:rotfl:

Mamta Guarding Indian Democracy against Army Takeover
"Very unfortunate. Army stationed in front of Nabanna the Bengal State Secretariat in a high security zone, inspite of Police objection... I am waiting here at the Secretariat and watching, to guard our democracy," Ms Banerjee tweeted.
No wonder Mamta and Kejri are chummies
Ok here I invent, trademark, copyright a new meme "mejri"
Saar - why not MAMEJRI ? ...it even rhymes with their slogan - ma, mati, manush aur MAMEJRI
ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5351
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by ShauryaT »

Gus wrote:Rupee will lose credibility?

Why? If at all, it will gain in value due to reduced inflation and more authenticity because of no fakes.
You have got it backwards. Higher currency denomination is not a cause but an effect of inflation. When the 100 rupee looses value to inflation the result is Rs. 500 and so on.
Gus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8220
Joined: 07 May 2005 02:30

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Gus »

Yes and Reducing of black money causes reduce in inflation.

What is the argument here?
vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4000
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by vera_k »

Rishirishi wrote:4Businesses and people will swith back to cashpayments once there is sufficient currency arround. Prices will be lower if you use INR notes, as it is Tax free.

All in all, i do not think the demonetisation will have an effect on the BM alone. It is a good step towards a bank driven economy. But to sustain it, it is essentail to come up with more measures.
I think 2-3% tax on total cash deposits into current accounts should be considered next. Cash won't go away unless it is made more expensive than the cashless alternative.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by shiv »

I think every individuals idea of the meaning of "cashless" is different. I believe that India can move to a way way more "cashless economy" without eliminating cash.

At least 200 million (probably more) electricity and water bills are being paid every month - which works out to 4,800 million (4.8 billion) bills being processed every year. I started the cashless route a decade ago but I sometimes have to visit the local electricity/water bill counter. At the end of the month there is ALWAYS a queue. I estimate that at least 50% of all bills are paid in cash.

Typically people wait for their salary and then queue up. If you are unlcky you will be behind the chowkidar of a block of flats who is paying 20 bills in one go

Long ago the government tried to ease the process
1. The started a scheme whereby bills would automatically get paid from your bank account after you check them. This was painful. It require going to your bank and registering and submitting a blank cancelled cheque leaf - an idiotic thing that i did not even consider adopting
2. In Blr they started 24 hour centers called "BangaloreOne" where bills could be paid in cash or cheque 24 hours a day
3. I used to pay by credit card to Citibank who would write a cheque in my name and pay it manually at the counter LOL

Only recently have they started direct payment to the utility

If the government can move utility bill payment to a cashless method for 75% of people that will be a huge step forward. Since most businesses can claim tax rebates on utilities there should be no reason to resist as they can show it in their returns. Of course if they are paying no tax at all they will still stand in queue. The government really should give a rebate - say 1% for paying online. That actually does save the govt a lot of money in printed bills and manned kiosks for bill payment.

I am certain that every agency that was allowed to take old notes - utility payment counters, buses, railways etc have all been used to exchange money. Part of the shortage of Rs 100 notes is because government would have exchanged them from billing counters for their own old notes.

But that was just for 3 weeks. From tonight the game is up, A new game must start.
ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5351
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by ShauryaT »

^ One of the biggest moves in the US for use of CC, apart from the extra time one gets to pay are points. Points that you collect, which can be redeemed for goodies. Carrots work best to promote a change, so rebates and all such ideas that promote a desired behavior is good. But there is something else that CC companies have done, they have put in more and more security to check fraud. Hacks and frauds still happens but guarantees and assurances go a long way towards some peace of mind.
Deans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2517
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Deans »

The livemint article on JDY is interesting. Not more than 1 million accounts are likely to be misused (as proxies for BM holders) assuming that the
trend for the first 15 days continues at a decreasing rate. At a max Rs 50,000 / account, that only 5000 cr laundered - that too at a high risk.
Even that makes the unlikely assumption that the actual account holder will have nothing to deposit. My concern however is why over 50 million
accounts continue to have 0 balance - that needs to be audited by each branch.

At the same time, only 2 million new accounts will be opened (less than a 1% increase in total accounts), which indicates to me that almost every household who needs an account has one. All the media talk of X % of Indians being un-banked misses the point that every Indian does not need an account. There are approx 800 million adult Indians of which 25% live in absolute poverty (unlikely to need high value notes).
There are 300+ million bank accounts for these 600 million (or 1 per household of 2 adults). There are also 700 million debit cards and excluding
multiple cards held by individuals like you and I, the number of Indians with a debit card is around 650 million.
Pathik
BRFite
Posts: 569
Joined: 16 Aug 2016 05:22

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Post by Pathik »

Gus wrote:Nobody is going to trade in USD domestically and take the risk of exchange rate fluctuations. Are people even thinking through on some of these "thoughts" ...
Holding USD in place of INR will not be straight forward given crack down on hawala transactions. Aam abdul has to give passport copy above certain exchange value. If govt. thinks this may become the tend it would try and bring the unorganised currency exchange market under the tax gambit as well. Even the agents will have to deposit the cash or channel it some where to make it legit.
Post Reply