Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 1185
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Manish_P » 16 Dec 2017 18:41

Government to bear MDR charges on digital transactions up to Rs 2,000

The government will bear the MDR charges on transactions up to Rs 2,000 made through debit cards, BHIM UPI or Aadhaar-enabled payment systems to promote digital transactions, IT Minister Ravi Shankar Prasad said today.

MDR is charged on payments made to merchants through BHIM UPI platform and AePS (Aadhaar enabled Payment System).

The merchant discount rate (MDR) will be borne by the government for two years with effect from January 1, 2018 by reimbursing the same ..


tandav
BRFite
Posts: 249
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 08:24

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby tandav » 16 Dec 2017 23:39

Anecdotally... it is still quite a pain to pay people for small works (say laborer ~Rs 5000 for 2 weeks of site work) from a company Current account where the process is
1) Add the payee account to company Current account (by checking KYC docs by an accounts admin: Bank AC and ID proof)
2) PO raised on payee by accounts team
3) Work done and certified by Projects team
4) eCheck raised by accountant
5) eCheck approved by approver

Far easier to pay by cash than this by using petty cash

tandav
BRFite
Posts: 249
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 08:24

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby tandav » 16 Dec 2017 23:41

I also suggest that the Government integrate a payments system (connected to all major banks) with the GST portal so that all invoices can be paid online by companies and tax directly collected. Will make life easier for all SMEs .

JohnTitor
BRFite
Posts: 1313
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby JohnTitor » 17 Dec 2017 21:45

The first thing that needs to be done is get rid of 2k and 500 rupee notes.

I have personally seen people pay 3-5lacs in cash with these notes

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 730
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby yensoy » 17 Dec 2017 22:08

JohnTitor wrote:The first thing that needs to be done is get rid of 2k and 500 rupee notes.

I have personally seen people pay 3-5lacs in cash with these notes


This is like trying to lose weight by wearing clothes 2 sizes smaller. It will be a huge inconvenience, it will get in your day to day life, and you will fail at the objective.

I assure you that if you get rid of Rs500 and Rs2000 notes (the latter I am ok with, actually), you will find people exploring the use of other forms of cash payment - whether it is USD or bitcoin or gold coins. Digital payments continue to be a pain in India. Actually, it's our open market and fair play principles which are getting in the way. Digital payment providers are highly fragmented - time the government picks 2 or 3 "winners" from the pack and tells everyone else to fold in their operations with one of these winners. Without consolidation, standardization and interoperability, it's going nowhere.

Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1006
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Rishirishi » 18 Dec 2017 05:25

tandav wrote:Anecdotally... it is still quite a pain to pay people for small works (say laborer ~Rs 5000 for 2 weeks of site work) from a company Current account where the process is
1) Add the payee account to company Current account (by checking KYC docs by an accounts admin: Bank AC and ID proof)
2) PO raised on payee by accounts team
3) Work done and certified by Projects team
4) eCheck raised by accountant
5) eCheck approved by approver

Far easier to pay by cash than this by using petty cash



I think the entire sence should be simplified. learn from how share economy portals are working. Charge flat 10% GST on all goods and services (including medical, food, education etc). Refund essentials for people paying electronically. It has to be some kind of portal. You purchase on the web (using your bank account) and get refunded a certain ammount.

Only ration shops and gov. schools and medical facilities should be exempt.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 6914
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Sachin » 29 Dec 2017 21:07

The De.Mo also seems to have really hit some folks @ unexpected quarters.
Kerala: Syro Malabar Church reports shady land deals
The issue is about church's property being sold to third parties, who have NOT paid up the mutually agreed upon amount. The church had sold the land showing a very low fair-price value (which was also shown on the sale deed, and registration deed). The church cannot approach the courts, as the only official record would be the sale & registration deed. The buyers (said to be shady peacefool businessmen) have paid that recorded amount using the banking channels.

jaysimha
BRFite
Posts: 374
Joined: 20 Dec 2017 14:30

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby jaysimha » 06 Jan 2018 11:23

Image

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9948
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby pankajs » 30 Jan 2018 17:53

Digital transactions cross 1 billion mark in December
http://www.livemint.com/Industry/faVYL8 ... ember.html
Digital transactions rose 6.05% to 1.06 billion in December from 997.1 million in November, according to RBI’s provisional data.

Image

6% jump in a month is not to be laughed at. Looks like the momentum is back. UPI is really picking up and that is a good sign.

morem
BRFite
Posts: 109
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 15:52

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby morem » 01 Feb 2018 02:18

Personal example, my mother had an angioplasty done in Nagpur . We paid 1.5 lakhs via UPI . The remaining 1.5 lakhs we took cash because hospitals were the last place I expected would do non-cash transactions.
Turns they were okay to swipe a card for the entire amount , only limit was daily limit on the card.

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10169
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby A_Gupta » 07 Feb 2018 03:43

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/in ... netisation
India’s art market grows, despite demonetisation
Subcontinent’s art scene expands with the help of private money as government cleans up the economy and simplifies tax

Further complicating matters are two reforms that have caused short-term pain but aim to put India’s economy on a stronger footing. First was the sobering effect of demonetisation in November 2016, when all 500- and 1,000-rupee notes were withdrawn to combat counterfeit cash and money laundering. A cautious atmosphere ensued, with reduced spending in galleries and an end, as intended, to the widespread practice of paying for works of art in cash to avoid having to declare them to the taxman.

The ArtTactic findings suggest that the negative impact of demonetisation is fading. Although 46% of the galleries surveyed said that demonetisation had had a negative impact on sales in the past year, only 27% expected this to continue into 2018, and 24% believed a shored-up currency could have a positive effect.

Second, the Goods and Services Tax (GST) was introduced in July 2017 to create a uniform taxation system across India. Ashish Anand, the chief executive of the DAG gallery, which has branches in Delhi, Mumbai and New York, says that the GST is a “huge reform for the Indian economy, even though its immediate impact—and paperwork—for small- and medium-scale enterprises has been somewhat ruinous”.

Fortunately, art was not included in the same band as luxury goods, now subject to a 28% tax under the GST. The rate for sales of art has even dipped slightly, from 12.5% to 12%. But, according to Jagpal: “There is strong feeling in the arts community that more work could be done to lobby the government to reduce the rate further.”

Craftworks, by comparison, are levied at 4%; IAF is campaigning to have the tariff for art set at this level.

ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5108
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby ShauryaT » 20 Mar 2018 21:35

Demonetisation has led to tax terrorism: Yashwant Sinha
Demonetisation has led to tax terrorism: Yashwant Sinha
Sinha made these remarks at the launch of a book, Demonetization and the Black Economy, by economist Arun Kumar, who has been critical of the exercise. Suspended BJD MP Baijayant 'Jay' Panda and Congress leader Prithiviraj Chavan were also participating in the panel discussion.

Dissident BJP leader and former Union finance minister Yashwant Sinha today said demonetisation had led to "tax terrorism" and likened Prime Minister Narendra Modi to a medieval era Delhi king known for his whimsical decisions.

Sinha made these remarks at the launch of a book, Demonetization and the Black Economy, by economist Arun Kumar, who has been critical of the exercise. Suspended BJD MP Baijayant 'Jay' Panda and Congress leader Prithiviraj Chavan were also participating in the panel discussion.

Though demonetisation failed to meet any of the stated objectives, the government had won the "perception battle", Sinha said.

The former finance minister derisively said that "not policy-makers but only one policy-maker" decides what has to be done.

With the passage of time, they can come to only one conclusion that demonetisation has "failed and failed comprehensively", he said.

"There was another case in the 16th century in Delhi about a ruler who was famous for shifting the capital from Delhi to Daulatabad. But we forget that he also had demonetised the currency in his time. We have gone back five centuries to repeat the mistake which that gentleman, that king had made," he said.

Asked by the moderator if he was comparing Modi to Muhammad bin Tughluq, Sinha said he was not taking any names.

Sinha said "tax terrorism", which the BJP was critical of when it was in the opposition, has returned because of the note ban, and claimed the income tax department registered 1.8 million cases following the decision and was ill-equipped to probe them all anytime soon.

"What has been the other side-effect? Tax-terrorism, which the BJP had criticised when we were in opposition. It has come back now. 1.8 million cases have been started by the income tax department (since demonetisation)" he said.

Is the department equipped to handle so many cases and how much time it is going to take to bring those cases to a final conclusion, he asked, claiming people will never know how much black money was actually recovered until investigation in all those cases are complete.

"This will go on and on like the counting of the notes by the Reserve Bank of India. It will never finish, not at least until the next Lok Sabha election so that the perception of this (demonetisation) having succeeded continues to hold," he said.

Asked how would he have tackled the flow of black money, Sinha quipped, "Demonetisation and the Goods and Services Tax (GST) are subjects to write books upon how things should not be done."

Published by Penguin India, 'Demonetization and the Black Economy' claims to explain the story of the note ban and its effects on the economy.

nam
BRFite
Posts: 878
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby nam » 20 Mar 2018 22:03

Though demonetisation failed to meet any of the stated objectives, the government had won the "perception battle", Sinha said.


If the objectives were openly stated and failed to achieve, how did it win the perception battle?

Makes us a country of idiots, who can't see the obvious, no?

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11301
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Suraj » 20 Mar 2018 23:35

There's no need to sidetrack this thread with commentary from sources obviously pushing their own political agenda.

madhu
BRFite
Posts: 210
Joined: 12 Oct 2005 17:00
Location: India

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby madhu » 21 Mar 2018 07:25

There is a sudden cashcrunch in mysore. Atm and banks have gone dry. Bank tells RBI is not providing enough money. RBI tells withdraw is more than deposit.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11301
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Suraj » 22 Mar 2018 00:09

madhu wrote:There is a sudden cashcrunch in mysore. Atm and banks have gone dry. Bank tells RBI is not providing enough money. RBI tells withdraw is more than deposit.

It's not sudden. It's normal. Happens every year during second half of March due to fiscal year end and tax payments going into system. It lightens up again early April.

Dipanker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3021
Joined: 14 May 2002 11:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Dipanker » 25 Mar 2018 00:11

Anybody keeping track of post Demo currency circulation? RBI figure from last month suggest it is nearly back to 100% pre Demo level. IIRC some of the resident "economists" had predicted that cash in circulation will stop around 70% of the pre Demo level. Well turns out they have been substantially off the mark.

Currency circulation in India at 99% of pre-demonetisation level: RBI data

Mumbai: Currency in circulation in India stood at Rs17.78 trillion as on 16 February, reaching 98.94% of the pre demonetisation level, according to the latest data released by the Reserve Bank of India (RBI).

On 4 November 2016, the latest data released by the central bank before high-value banknotes were invalidated on 8 November, the currency with the public was Rs17.97 trillion. Subsequently, it dropped to a low of Rs8.98 trillion as on 6 January 2017. The demonetisation, aimed at countering tax dodgers and counterfeiters, sucked out 86% of the currency in circulation. The government had then also pointed out to relatively lower levels of currency with the public as a success.

According to central bank’s annual report, 98.96% of notes (by value) that were invalidated had returned to the RBI by the end of June 2017.

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2178
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby JTull » 25 Mar 2018 01:56

During the previous 5 year term of UPA, supply trebled. As the GDP and population grow, some increase is always possible. After 15 months (post returns of legacy notes), same supply is not a bad thing.

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 6279
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby disha » 25 Mar 2018 07:30

Dipanker wrote:Anybody keeping track of post Demo currency circulation? RBI figure from last month suggest it is nearly back to 100% pre Demo level. IIRC some of the resident "economists" had predicted that cash in circulation will stop around 70% of the pre Demo level. Well turns out they have been substantially off the mark.

Mumbai: Currency in circulation in India stood at Rs17.78 trillion as on 16 February, reaching 98.94% of the pre demonetisation level, according to the latest data released by the Reserve Bank of India (RBI).

... The government had then also pointed out to relatively lower levels of currency with the public as a success.....


There is lies, damned lies and statistics. What if the circulation of Rs. 10, Rs. 20, Rs. 50, Rs. 100, Rs. 200 & Rs. 500 denominations has increased? You do not have that number and neither the farticle you have quoted., since the farticle does not cite the RBI report and just prints out headline numbers.

Given that, it is quite possible that your #Blow2ResidentEconomists might be premature.

shaun
BRFite
Posts: 918
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby shaun » 25 Mar 2018 07:38

What I understand is , although currency circulation is at pre demonization level but it's way short of the level it would have reached by now . Can anyone here post the projected chart.

“RBI has informed that nearly 48 per cent of the total currency notes supplied since April 01, 2017 till December 31, 2017, are lower denomination notes,” Minister of State for Finance Shiv Pratap Shukla said

“The share of lower denomination notes are going up that will lead to a cleaner economy in terms of transactions. The share of smaller currency in 2004 was 53 per cent, which declined to 28 per cent in 2009 and to 13 per cent when demonetisation was announced in 2016,” State Bank of India’s chief economist, Soumya Kanti Ghosh, said.
“This also means that the share of small currency notes in total currency in circulation now may have touched 35 percent in value terms,” the report said.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11301
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Suraj » 25 Mar 2018 23:32

Dipanker wrote:Anybody keeping track of post Demo currency circulation? RBI figure from last month suggest it is nearly back to 100% pre Demo level. IIRC some of the resident "economists" had predicted that cash in circulation will stop around 70% of the pre Demo level. Well turns out they have been substantially off the mark.

You forgot that the economy has grown ~20% larger in nominal terms in that time. Aren't you the same guy who can't tell the difference between nominal and real GDP growth rates ?

Dipanker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3021
Joined: 14 May 2002 11:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Dipanker » 25 Mar 2018 23:54

Suraj wrote:
Dipanker wrote:Anybody keeping track of post Demo currency circulation? RBI figure from last month suggest it is nearly back to 100% pre Demo level. IIRC some of the resident "economists" had predicted that cash in circulation will stop around 70% of the pre Demo level. Well turns out they have been substantially off the mark.

You forgot that the economy has grown ~20% larger in nominal terms in that time. Aren't you the same guy who can't tell the difference between nominal and real GDP growth rates ?


I wouldn't put it that way, rather you can say that I like to focus on the "real" part of the GDP growth rather than the "nominal" which includes the vaporware inflation component!

BTW, are a economist by profession?

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5119
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Supratik » 26 Mar 2018 00:02

Your maths is even weaker than your economics. Those are real numbers not percentage.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11301
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Suraj » 26 Mar 2018 00:08

Dipanker wrote:
Suraj wrote:You forgot that the economy has grown ~20% larger in nominal terms in that time. Aren't you the same guy who can't tell the difference between nominal and real GDP growth rates ?


I wouldn't put it that way, rather you can say that I like to focus on the "real" part of the GDP growth rather than the "nominal" which includes the vaporware inflation component!

Wrong again. It's the other way around. Nominal growth is what you see out in the world everyday. Real GDP growth rate is the so called 'vaporware' statistical construct.

Katare
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2009
Joined: 02 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Katare » 26 Mar 2018 00:33

My two cents....
Nominal growth- bakwaas (inflation)= real growth (that matters to real humans)

For demonetization purposes, nominal growth is a more relevent number. Anyhow demonetization did it’s bit in improving the digital economy, changing the composition of different denominations of notes and reducing the size of cash economy; no arguement there. With that said the results upto this point fall well short of the initial estimates and enthusiasm on almost all aspects of it, except for the speed and efficiency of remonetization of the economy that has been achieved by RBI and GoI.

Dipanker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3021
Joined: 14 May 2002 11:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Dipanker » 26 Mar 2018 01:26

Suraj wrote:
Dipanker wrote:
I wouldn't put it that way, rather you can say that I like to focus on the "real" part of the GDP growth rather than the "nominal" which includes the vaporware inflation component!

Wrong again. It's the other way around. Nominal growth is what you see out in the world everyday. Real GDP growth rate is the so called 'vaporware' statistical construct.


Let me restate that, when it comes to GDP, I like to discount the inflationary component and focus on the "real" growth only. Based on your interpretation, perhaps I used the word "vaporware" erroneously.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11301
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Suraj » 26 Mar 2018 01:37

Dipanker wrote:Let me restate that, when it comes to GDP, I like to discount the inflationary component and focus on the "real" growth only. Based on your interpretation, perhaps I used the word "vaporware" erroneously.

You don't get to define these things to suit your own misunderstandings because you 'like to'.

Dipanker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3021
Joined: 14 May 2002 11:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Dipanker » 26 Mar 2018 01:47

Suraj wrote:
Dipanker wrote:Let me restate that, when it comes to GDP, I like to discount the inflationary component and focus on the "real" growth only. Based on your interpretation, perhaps I used the word "vaporware" erroneously.

You don't get to define these things to suit your own misunderstandings because you 'like to'.



Misunderstanding between "real growth" vs. "nominal growth"?

Real Growth + Inflation = Nominal Growth is not exactly rocket science, anyway my last on this.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11301
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Suraj » 26 Mar 2018 02:04

Indeed, because you're being let go.

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4188
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Neshant » 26 Mar 2018 09:21

shaun wrote:What I understand is , although currency circulation is at pre demonization level but it's way short of the level it would have reached by now . Can anyone here post the projected chart.

“RBI has informed that nearly 48 per cent of the total currency notes supplied since April 01, 2017 till December 31, 2017, are lower denomination notes,” Minister of State for Finance Shiv Pratap Shukla said

“The share of lower denomination notes are going up that will lead to a cleaner economy in terms of transactions. The share of smaller currency in 2004 was 53 per cent, which declined to 28 per cent in 2009 and to 13 per cent when demonetisation was announced in 2016,” State Bank of India’s chief economist, Soumya Kanti Ghosh, said.
“This also means that the share of small currency notes in total currency in circulation now may have touched 35 percent in value terms,” the report said.



With crypto-currencies in circulation, there is nothing they can control.

The govt should get out of the business of trying to control the wealth of the people as it ends up backfiring and is hugely damaging.

shaun
BRFite
Posts: 918
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby shaun » 26 Mar 2018 09:49

Neshant wrote:
shaun wrote:What I understand is , although currency circulation is at pre demonization level but it's way short of the level it would have reached by now . Can anyone here post the projected chart.

“RBI has informed that nearly 48 per cent of the total currency notes supplied since April 01, 2017 till December 31, 2017, are lower denomination notes,” Minister of State for Finance Shiv Pratap Shukla said

“The share of lower denomination notes are going up that will lead to a cleaner economy in terms of transactions. The share of smaller currency in 2004 was 53 per cent, which declined to 28 per cent in 2009 and to 13 per cent when demonetisation was announced in 2016,” State Bank of India’s chief economist, Soumya Kanti Ghosh, said.
“This also means that the share of small currency notes in total currency in circulation now may have touched 35 percent in value terms,” the report said.



With crypto-currencies in circulation, there is nothing they can control.

The govt should get out of the business of trying to control the wealth of the people as it ends up backfiring and is hugely damaging.
Dear Neshant , I am all ears to know what exactly is controlling of wealth means and it's implication in India's context.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9948
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby pankajs » 26 Mar 2018 09:59

Cyrpto is even easier to control ... With cash at least you have a chance to hide/fudge if done on a small scale.

Don't anyone wonder why governments around the world and GOI in particular love *digital* transactions? Extend that to crypto and you/we will be on a dog leash for ever and ever .... Illusion on independence/anonymity is even more dangerous than governmental control.

Linking an old post of mine. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7242&p=2206495#p2206495
https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/14/7546 ... n-tracking
In the Silk Road trial, Bitcoin is a cop’s best friend

Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4188
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Neshant » 26 Mar 2018 10:23

pankajs wrote:Don't anyone wonder why governments around the world and GOI in particular love *digital* transactions?


Digital transactions don't equal crypto-currencies.
The digital transactions govt and banks want people to use are the ones they control.
Once peer-to-peer cryptos take off, it becomes even harder to track.

Its all for the better as it ejects govt, bankers and other useless middlemen from stealing the fruits of a persons' labor through inflation, fixing interest rates, money printing and other nefarious schemes that pick and choose winners.

The winners invariably being the ones with political connections to the central bankers, govt and others sitting up top who have built an entire profession around expropriating other peoples' earnings.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9948
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby pankajs » 26 Mar 2018 10:35

Crypto currencies have the same traceability as digital transactions. In fact the wonderful *public ledger* system that cannot be "fudged" is its strongest point in helping Governments with traceability. The silk road case has already proven that.

Peer-to-peer does nothing to provide anonymity/independence for *real* world goods and services. If you operate in a *closed system* with *unbreakable security* then you can have you anonymity/independence. You can trade crypto-x for Crypto-y on till eternity without without any risk. The moment you have to interface with the real world for real goods and services you/your anonymity is toast. Try paying rent or gas bill or paying for cinema or food with crypto and then watch you anonymous crypto life unravel.

People are free to live under whatever make believe world they want to build for themselves. I have no issues with that. This is for folks who have to live and work in the real world to not be swayed by such a pitch. Crypto has its strengths/use but anonymity is not one of them at least not for real world usage scenarios.

Vasu
BRFite
Posts: 814
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Vasu » 26 Mar 2018 16:25

Upstarts Are Swiping Business From Visa and Mastercard in India

Global card companies like Visa Inc. and Mastercard Inc. are losing market share to upstarts in the world’s most innovative payments market: India.

Transactions through India’s homegrown Unified Payments Interface -- which allows mobile apps run by retailers, airlines and other firms to take payment directly from bank accounts -- reached almost half the value of debit and credit cards swiped at stores last month, central bank data show.

“The introduction of UPI in August 2016 led to the creation of a wealth of new innovative payment solutions, and the adoption rates of UPI payments are truly spectacular,” U.S.-based Fidelity National Information Services Inc. said in a December 2017 report. UPI “opens up access to real-time by allowing payments to be directly integrated into external business applications,” it said.

India’s payments system was alone among more than 40 countries tracked by Fidelity National to gain a top score of five for innovation and customer value. China’s Internet Banking Payment System scored two and Kenya’s PesaLink scored four. Criteria included round-the-clock availability, speed of settlement, and level of government or regulator support.

Currently, India’s payments market is worth less than $200 billion, dwarfed by China’s $27 trillion market that’s now opening up to global players.

One challenge in India is the dominance of cash, which accounts for some 70 percent of the country’s total transactions by value. However, China transitioned to digital on the back of rising mobile and data penetration, and that process was hastened by e-commerce and social platforms, according to Credit Suisse. The same shift may play out in India, where data usage for 300 million Indian smartphone users rose to 5-10 GB a month from 1GB last year.(Mota bhai effect?)

The number of UPI transactions have surged almost 57,000 percent since November 2016, while that of debit and credit cards has risen 20 percent.

hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3910
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby hanumadu » 27 Mar 2018 09:07

Just in time for the 2019 elections. :mrgreen:
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/economy/deregistered-companies-dont-want-to-claim-their-assets-worth-rs-37500-crore-2536271.html
Deregistered companies don't want to claim their assets worth Rs 37,500 crore

Under Section 248 of the Companies Act, about 2.97 lakh were deregistered by the government in a drive to weed out defunct companies on various grounds of compliance.


Only 60,000 companies came forward wanting to be reinstated, the ministry official told Moneycontrol.
“The other companies didn’t come forward in the fear that they would not be able to justify how they own the assets,” another official said.

How much time will the govt give those companies before confiscating the amount?

The Prime Minister’s Office is expecting to unearth illegal deposits worth Rs 3 lakh crore and has directed the Income-Tax department and MCA to work together to ascertain such deposits.

Hope this happens before GE 2019.

The Income tax department is planning to take action under the black money law against companies who have failed to come up and claim the bank deposits.

And the govt is still planning to take action even if the companies are letting go of the money. Unless the companies are benamis with fake people and fake addresses, the owners are in trouble.
Last edited by hanumadu on 27 Mar 2018 12:01, edited 1 time in total.

hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3910
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby hanumadu » 27 Mar 2018 09:15

It looks more and more likely that another DeMo of Re 2000 bills is on the cards, possibly after next election (if Namo comes back). The increase in currency in circulation could be due to pumping in small denominations without withdrawing higher denominations. At some point, people may notice lesser and lesser 2000 bills changing hands until the only ones left are with hoarders.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 6914
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Sachin » 27 Mar 2018 11:28

The below case may also have the De.Mo as the root cause :lol:
Arabi reaches Kerala in search of Malayalee fraudsters.
To expand the business, the Arab had given Rs 75 lakh for a furniture business and Rs 1.50 cr for a real estate business......
Though Rs 30 lakh profit was shared by the partners, the balance amount of Rs 1.15 cr was not given back to the Arab.......

What most likely would have happened is that the 1.50 crore was spent on un-accounted transactions which the Malayali fraudsters are now unable to correct, or get the money back. The Arab's money is now pretty much gone.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11301
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby Suraj » 27 Mar 2018 21:42

hanumadu wrote:Just in time for the 2019 elections. :mrgreen:
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/economy/deregistered-companies-dont-want-to-claim-their-assets-worth-rs-37500-crore-2536271.html
Deregistered companies don't want to claim their assets worth Rs 37,500 crore

Under Section 248 of the Companies Act, about 2.97 lakh were deregistered by the government in a drive to weed out defunct companies on various grounds of compliance.


Only 60,000 companies came forward wanting to be reinstated, the ministry official told Moneycontrol.
“The other companies didn’t come forward in the fear that they would not be able to justify how they own the assets,” another official said.

How much time will the govt give those companies before confiscating the amount?

The Prime Minister’s Office is expecting to unearth illegal deposits worth Rs 3 lakh crore and has directed the Income-Tax department and MCA to work together to ascertain such deposits.

Hope this happens before GE 2019.

The Income tax department is planning to take action under the black money law against companies who have failed to come up and claim the bank deposits.

And the govt is still planning to take action even if the companies are letting go of the money. Unless the companies are benamis with fake people and fake addresses, the owners are in trouble.

Do you remember the spate of articles that came out when RBI announced that 97% (or was it 99%) of demonetized notes have returned ? And that the press bizarrely fell over itself trying to project that as a failure of Demonetization ? That three lakh crore (about $46 billion) above is the same money that was deposited, which no one wants to claim now :-)

nam
BRFite
Posts: 878
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Postby nam » 27 Mar 2018 22:30

Demo was a nice little trap laid out by GoI. You don't deposit, you loose the money. You deposit, you lay a paper trail.

Either way GoI wins.


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests