GST - Discussion on all Aspects

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Suraj
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Suraj »

Please do groundwork yourself. You're a newcomer here with a record of stating your own opinions and asking others to do the work of finding supporting material for you.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Rishirishi »

vinamr_s wrote:How less regressive wrt to income is India’s GST because of the 5 different tax brackets (0%, 5%, 12%, 18% and 28%)?

Putting household necessities in the lower slab of 5% would have made it less regressive; however, additional cess on top of 28% tax on tobacco would have made it more regressive, i guess. Can anyone point me to any survey which has been conducted to actually estimate its regressiveness wrt income, because it isn’t possible to estimate otherwise.
The tax brackets are not derived from calculations, hence are not objective. It is a political dissension, derived from "guestimates" and desired outcomes.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by wig »

the tax rates under GST are a sum of the rates levied under the Rate Schedules notified under the erstwhile Central Excise Act, 1944 and the CST Act, 1956 and VAT Act, of the relevant State. ( VAT was introduced in 2005 - if I recall correctly)
Generally the GST rate levied on most goods will be a sum of the two rates mentioned above. GST rate on Services is different and mostly 18%
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by vinamr_s »

Suraj wrote:Please do groundwork yourself. You're a newcomer here with a record of stating your own opinions and asking others to do the work of finding supporting material for you.
I ask such questions when I’m not able to find some information. E.g. I asked about the present status of Bodos displaced in 2012 by Bangladeshi infiltrators in the Internal Sequrity Watch thread because I can’t find any trustable source with such information.

In this case, I couldn’t find any survey estimating the regressiveness of GST on google scholar. I guess, most of such research will be present in libraries of Indian univ which are out of my access scope.

If you think this should be a part of this forum, then sure, I won’t ask others for such information from now.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by venkat_kv »

vinamr_s wrote:
Suraj wrote:Please do groundwork yourself. You're a newcomer here with a record of stating your own opinions and asking others to do the work of finding supporting material for you.
I ask such questions when I’m not able to find some information. E.g. I asked about the present status of Bodos displaced in 2012 by Bangladeshi infiltrators in the Internal Sequrity Watch thread because I can’t find any trustable source with such information.

In this case, I couldn’t find any survey estimating the regressiveness of GST on google scholar. I guess, most of such research will be present in libraries of Indian univ which are out of my access scope.

If you think this should be a part of this forum, then sure, I won’t ask others for such information from now.
vinamr_s Saar,
shouldn't we make a study on GST and then decide if ts regressive or progressive and as such. why should we start with the assumption of regressiveness of GST, unless people think that taxes are regressive in and itself?
You will find quite a few self styled "economists", "intellectuals", "truth seekers" running their agenda on youtube. if you want points, you can listen to their videos/tripe and then make a note on points and expand on that with various articles.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by vinamr_s »

venkat_kv wrote: vinamr_s Saar,
shouldn't we make a study on GST and then decide if ts regressive or progressive and as such. why should we start with the assumption of regressiveness of GST, unless people think that taxes are regressive in and itself?
You will find quite a few self styled "economists", "intellectuals", "truth seekers" running their agenda on youtube. if you want points, you can listen to their videos/tripe and then make a note on points and expand on that with various articles.
That’s why I asked my original question: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7314&p=2503029#p2503029

The assumption I started off was that an indirect tax with a single rate for all commodities (which is not the case with our GST) & services would be regressive wrt income. Which is clearly established and no further studies need to be conducted.

My second assumption was that the existence of different rates on different commodities (which is the case with our GST) would change this regressiveness, it can make it less or even more regressive.

Hence I asked if anyone has access to / has read a survey or any study that estimates the GST people belonging to different income groups pay.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by venkat_kv »

vinamr_s wrote:
venkat_kv wrote: vinamr_s Saar,
shouldn't we make a study on GST and then decide if ts regressive or progressive and as such. why should we start with the assumption of regressiveness of GST, unless people think that taxes are regressive in and itself?
You will find quite a few self styled "economists", "intellectuals", "truth seekers" running their agenda on youtube. if you want points, you can listen to their videos/tripe and then make a note on points and expand on that with various articles.
That’s why I asked my original question: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7314&p=2503029#p2503029

The assumption I started off was that an indirect tax with a single rate for all commodities (which is not the case with our GST) & services would be regressive wrt income. Which is clearly established and no further studies need to be conducted.

My second assumption was that the existence of different rates on different commodities (which is the case with our GST) would change this regressiveness, it can make it less or even more regressive.

Hence I asked if anyone has access to / has read a survey or any study that estimates the GST people belonging to different income groups pay.
Vinamr_s Saar,
These points were all discussed in depth when GST was brought about. but two major reasons for the multiple slabs/tiers for GST taxes were.
1. the govt didn't know how much would be collected through GST (there were only estimates) and states were ensured no loss of revenue, hence we had multiple slabs and quite a few items moved up and down into different slabs based on feedback. once the GST stabilizes I think there might be further merging of the slabs.
2. The GST slabs were also brought about with various taxes of center and of course vat calculations also done. Most of the items were to cost the same or in some case less and in some a little more. The then finance minister had asked traders, shops, supermarkets to display the old price without GST and new price with GST so as to let people know how much more or less they were paying. But this was also not followed by the businesses.
It gave rise to a lot of negative press initially with each vested interests fueling their own agendas.
I don't think you will find any study that does with respect to different income groups. People barely have any data that is reliable before this govt came in 2014 and to expect a data comparison which can be proved will be difficult. you will find anecdotal evidences and experiences that will prove how GST brought down prices of essentials and increased a few on the luxury items.

you might get general articles and studies with respect to how GST reforms are needed based on previous Niti Aayog members or Karan Basin's older analysis or right on this forum With Suraj and older members arguing for or against (some of the forum members have their own businesses and were writing about how things were difficult in the early days).
But GST with respect to income types is difficult as with the same income groups the expenditure will be different for different set of people living in various parts of the country.
A Self employed to salaried person earning similar income but living in different parts of the country will have different spending habits. So to compare if to 100 percent may not be possible. But maybe the IT filings information should shed some light (maybe not the ones you are exactly looking for though).
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by tandav »

Even now I have big grouse against GST implementation. The invoicing should be completely online and GST should only be collected if payment is made.

Non payment or delayed payment by clients is rampant in India especially for project oriented work. The current GST system does not enforce payments.

Vendors should be able to request payment from client similar to a UPI system by uploading an invoice and generating a payment link. Client should be able to accept invoice or reject it. As of date rejection of invoices happens offline citing very arbitrary reason and a very tedious process of litigation is required to recover payments.

B2B payments should be as simple as B2C payments via UPI

Non payment of invoice should automatically start delayed payment interest to invoice
Last edited by tandav on 14 Jul 2021 20:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by kvraghav »

tandav wrote:Even now I have big grouse against GST implementation. The invoicing should be completely online and GST should only be collected if payment is made.

Non payment or delayed payment by clients is rampant in India especially for project oriented work. The current GST system does not enforce payments.

Vendors should be able to request payment from client similar to a UPI system by uploading an invoice and generating a payment link. Client should be able to accept invoice or reject it. As of date rejection of invoices happens offline citing very arbitrary reason and a very tedious process of litigation is required to recover payments.

B2B payments should be as simple as B2C payments via UPI

Non payment of invoice
The problem is not about invoicing but regarding the payment of dues. We too pay GST in advance but our govt contracts are paid only after 1.5 years. This is not the GST problem since we know what is the capital we are investing and have to take care of the GST as capital expenditures. It is we are asking the govt to take GST after payments but we will invest more capital and ok to receive payment later? The B2B scenario is very bad in India simply because the suppliers compete on credit.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by tandav »

Why when the govt can easily enforce payments in one fell swoop and secure vendors. Bigger companies will not default on their payment commitments knowing govt will enforce contracts and payment by a simple non judicial method that has very low enforcement time and cost.

Implement this and I guarantee tax evasion will drop massively. Businesses will happily raise invoices knowing Big Daddy GST officer will enforce payments from client
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by kvraghav »

The criminalization of the cheque bounce was precisely for this. You take a post dated cheque when you deliver the goods as a vendor. Until the vendors start forming a union and blacklist B2C companies for non payment, this will keep going on. Another tool is NCLT for delayed payments but rest assured, what ever means govt will try to enforce on the buyers, as long as there are vendors who are ready to forgo the right to that law, the buyers will simply skip you and go to that vendor. This is also for large companies. A big builder of Bangalore still owes use payments.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by chetak »

A roti attracts 5% GST and a parantha is charged 18% GST

the wayward inclinations of our one exam passed wunderkind, the bureaucratic bonapartes, are as unfathomable as they are mysterious

saala, godown hi kharaab hai, tabhi showroom aisa hai.

these paranthas are the mainstay of many culinarily challenged households and clueless bachelors.

ready to "heat and eat paranthas" are life savers as well as time savers, especially when faced with an unexpected emergency of the victuals variety and caused by an influx too many guests and the petrified host is overwhelmed.

tax, like justice, must be tempered with mercy


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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Vips »

GST revenue surge: Odisha, Karnataka, Maharashtra gain the most.

A continued momentum in the goods and services tax (GST) receipts from July 2021 onwards yielded an average mop-up of Rs 1.23 trillion in FY22, up 29% on year. Officials reckon that monthly GST revenues may average at Rs 1.35 trillion in FY23.

In aggregate, all states reported 17.5% growth in GST revenues in nine months during July 2021-April 2022 (excluding January, for which granular data is not available), with some reporting much higher growth. Buoyant GST collections would mitigate the revenue shock to states from the expiry of the compensation mechanism in July this year.

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Of course, the states still needed compensation in FY22 because of the protected revenue (14% annual growth over FY16 base). The Centre borrowed Rs 1.1 trillion in FY21 and Rs 1.59 trillion in FY22 and released the funds to the states as designated cess pool for compensation shortfall. Also, GST revenues from imports has in these months been growing at almost double the pace at which the mop-up from domestic transactions rose, reflecting the high imported inflation.

“By the end of the June quarter, we should see a correction in edible oil prices. Prices should surely correct by 10-15%. We have seen the peak, and by June, we will see the market getting corrected,” he said.

An FE analysis of the nine months showed that 17 out of 30 states showed a GST collection growth of 15% or more. Odisha topped with a 39% growth on year, followed by Maharashtra (24%) and Karnataka (20%). Three large states — Tamil Nadu, Uttar Pradesh and Rajasthan — reported 12-13% growth in GST revenues in the period.

Except three big states —Bihar, West Bengal and Madhya Pradesh — most other states that showed single-digit growth are smaller states like northeastern states and Goa.

The top performers in GST revenue growth are largely manufacturing and mining-activity-dominated states while those lagging are largely consuming states. On the face of it, this is contrary to the assumption that GST being a destination-based consumption tax, consumer states benefit the most from it.

“One plausible explanation could be consumption of services compared to goods may be lower in low income states like Bihar,” said NR Bhanumurthy, vice-chancellor of Bengaluru Dr BR Ambedkar School of Economics University.

According to Deloitte India partner MS Mani: “Some of the states excessively relied on the 14% guaranteed revenue aid for the past five years and were lax in enforcing compliance, so, such states may have showed lower GST growth in recent months while others did well.”

These states might resort to greater enforcement after the compensation period ends and would also benefit from GST buoyancy, he said.

Both government officials and analysts reckon that GST buoyancy is due to a combination of factors such as strong anti-evasion measures by tallying GST payments of companies with income tax payments, tightening of rules to deny input tax credit to companies if they fail to ensure their vendors have filed their GST returns, higher commodity prices and rebound in economic activities after Covid subsided.

Retail inflation averaged about 5.5% in FY22 and could be over 6% in FY23 going by the recent spike in prices due to rise in commodity prices such as fuels. The much-awaited restructuring of the GST slabs to raise the revenue-neutral rate (RNR) from a little over 11% now to 15.5% would commence gradually from the current financial year. This will further boost states’ revenues. More than hike in rates in the short term, the Council may consider further measures such as use of data analytics to tighten compliance to augment revenues.

In an indication of increase in compliance, during April 2022, 1.06 crore GST returns in GSTR-3B (a self-declared summary GST return filed every month)were filed, 92 lakh returns filed during April 2021. The filing percentage for GSTR-1 (a monthly or quarterly return that should be filed by every registered GST taxpayer) in April 2022 was 83.11% as compared to 73.9% in April 2021.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Vips »

GST receipts may be around Rs 1.5 trillion in May.

With the e-way bills generated for inter-state trade in goods under the Goods and Services Tax (GST) regime in April turning out to be the second highest so far, the monthly GST collections may hit Rs 1.5 trillion benchmark again in May (April transactions).

E-way bills stood at 75.24 million in April 2022, up 28% on year, reflecting continued momentum in shipments due to rebound in economic activities as well as a low base effect. E-way bills in April had been just 4% lower than the peak achieved in the previous month.

E-way bills came in at 78.16 million in March, the highest monthly data since the online system was rolled out on April 1, 2018, reflecting an uptick in demand and shipments before the year-end. Monthly GST collections hit an all-time high of Rs 1.68 trillion in April (March transactions), broadly reflecting efficient plugging of tax evasion, a sustained shift of business to the formal sector of the economy and year-end bunching of tax payments by firms.

Bills generation rose 0.5% on the month in February to 69.15 million and March GST collections (February transactions) rose 6.8% on month to 1.42 trillion. The April e-way bills were up 9% over February, indicting that the GST collections will be robust in May as well, even though the capacity utilisation of trucks have moderated.

“Trucking capacity utilisation was about 80% in April compared with approximately 95% in March and 85% in February,” Abhishek Gupta, joint secretary, All India Transporters Welfare Association (AITWA), told FE. Almost 99% of e-way bills are generated under the road category.

Continued buoyancy in GST collections for several months in a row would help allay the state governments’ concerns about a revenue shock they might have to deal with once five-year revenue protection ends on June 30.

For the Centre, the high mop-up would mean its share of the tax as Central GST would be higher than the budget estimate of Rs 6.6 trillion for FY23.

Given that an incipient pick-up in consumption has resulted in a more-than-proportionate jump in GST revenues, a stronger economic recovery could allow the collections to settle at an elevated level, proving the high revenue productivity of the broad-based consumption tax.

The continued momentum in high GST receipts from July 2021 onwards yielded an average of gross GST of Rs 1.23 trillion in FY22, up 29% on year. Officials reckon that monthly GST revenues may average Rs 1.35 trillion or so in FY23, up 10% on year, compared with Rs 1.2 trillion factored in the Budget for the year.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Manish_P »

What will be the possible immediate fallout (Economic, not political) ?

GST Council recommendations not binding on states and Centre: Supreme Court
Supreme Court has held that recommendations by the Goods and Services Tax (GST) Council are not binding on states or the Centre and hold a persuasive value.

The parliament as well as state legislatures possess equal and simultaneous powers to legislate on GST and the Council can advise suitably in the event of repugnancy between laws laid down by the two federal units, the court said. In such events, "GST Council must work in harmonious manner to achieve workable solution," the bench added.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by sanjayc »

Editorial in Times of India today
Objection milords: SC’s GST Council ruling is an overreach and can be hugely disruptive. GoI should file review petition

India’s indirect tax architecture received a massive jolt yesterday when a three-judge Supreme Court verdict overturned the commonly understood remit of a critical constitutional body: GST Council. In the five years since GST has been rolled out, the GST Council chaired by the Union finance minister and having representatives of all states, has been the decision-making body on all key matters such as tax rates. Decisions of the Council are put to vote and seen to be binding on both GoI and states. SC’s verdict now says the Council’s decision is merely recommendatory.

It’s a tectonic shift, unsettling India’s indirect tax architecture. “To regard them as binding edicts would disrupt fiscal federalism,” said the judgment of GST Council’s decisions. In practice, it’s the other way around. To now regard the GST Council’s decisions as just recommendatory in nature will undermine the current fiscal order which was painstakingly created across governments. For economic agents, including firms and individuals, it introduces a level of uncertainty which is bound to undermine confidence. This, in turn, will act as a drag on economic activity. This is why SC’s judgment is such an unwelcome intervention.

The origin of this verdict goes back to a decision handed by a division bench of the Gujarat high court in January 2020. Companies that import coal for domestic industries challenged a tax levied by GoI under two statutory laws that are a part of the GST architecture. Gujarat HC ruled against GoI, which subsequently brought the matter to the apex court. In the apex court, GoI did categorically state that GST Council’s decisions are binding on both legislature and the executive. This argument was rejected by the apex court, thereby overturning the well-established hierarchy of decision making in GST.

The situation is now untenable. If the GST Council’s decisions are not binding it opens the door to states cherry picking. That will defeat the whole purpose of transitioning to GST that aimed to create a common market in India by dismantling fiscal barriers between states. States voluntarily subsumed their unilateral powers over indirect taxation to usher in GST. For sure, there have been disagreements within the GST Council but the binding nature of its decisions have never been in question. This verdict is clearly one of judicial overreach and intrudes into the domain of the legislature. GoI should file a review petition right away.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... -petition/
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by srin »

Regarding GST, I'm not too sure what's going on. It is surprising but I don't see anything in the Constitution that goes against SC verdict.

So, I looked up the constitution (see here for PDF copy).
  • There is no provision that says that GST Council can do anything other than recommend
    There are explicit provisions that say that Parliament and Legislatures have powers to make laws regarding GST
    There is no provision that says that Parliament and Legislatures are limited by GST council recommendations
References below:
Below is Article 246A (Page #111 in PDF)
[246A. Special provision with respect to goods and services tax.—(1) Notwithstanding anything
contained in articles 246 and 254, Parliament, and, subject to clause (2), the Legislature of every State, have
power to make laws with respect to goods and services tax imposed by the Union or by such State.
(2) Parliament has exclusive power to make laws with respect to goods and services tax where the
supply of goods, or of services, or both takes place in the course of inter-State trade or commerce.
Explanation.—The provisions of this article, shall, in respect of goods and services tax referred to in
clause (5) of article 279A, take effect from the date recommended by the Goods and Services Tax Council.]
Below is Article 269A (Page #116 in PDF)
[269A. Levy and collection of goods and services tax in course of inter-State trade or
commerce.— (1) Goods and services tax on supplies in the course of inter-State trade or commerce shall
be levied and collected by the Government of India and such tax shall be apportioned between the Union
and the States in the manner as may be provided by Parliament by law on the recommendations of the
Goods and Services Tax Council.
Below is Article 279A (Page #120 in PDF)
(4) The Goods and Services Tax Council shall make recommendations to the Union and the States on—
(a) the taxes, cesses and surcharges levied by the Union, the States and the local bodies which may
be subsumed in the goods and services tax;
(b) the goods and services that may be subjected to, or exempted from the goods and services tax;
(c) model Goods and Services Tax Laws, principles of levy, apportionment of Goods and Services
Tax levied on supplies in the course of inter-State trade or commerce under article 269A and the
principles that govern the place of supply;
(d) the threshold limit of turnover below which goods and services may be exempted from goods
and services tax;
(e) the rates including floor rates with bands of goods and services tax ;
(f) any special rate or rates for a specified period, to raise additional resources during any natural
calamity or disaster ;
(g) special provision with respect to the States of Arunachal Pradesh, Assam, Jammu and Kashmir,
Manipur, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Nagaland, Sikkim, Tripura, Himachal Pradesh and Uttarakhand; and
(h) any other matter relating to the goods and services tax, as the Council may decide.
(5) The Goods and Services Tax Council shall recommend the date on which the goods and services
tax be levied on petroleum crude, high speed diesel, motor spirit (commonly known as petrol), natural gas
and aviation turbine fuel.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Dilbu »

I think we should look at the root of this issue.
The origin of this verdict goes back to a decision handed by a division bench of the Gujarat high court in January 2020. Companies that import coal for domestic industries challenged a tax levied by GoI under two statutory laws that are a part of the GST architecture. Gujarat HC ruled against GoI, which subsequently brought the matter to the apex court. In the apex court, GoI did categorically state that GST Council’s decisions are binding on both legislature and the executive. This argument was rejected by the apex court, thereby overturning the well-established hierarchy of decision making in GST.
Now GOI has actually gone ahead and tried to defend a tax position stating that 'GST Council’s decisions are binding on both legislature and the executive.' This is not correct as per the current GST law as srin ji has mentioned above. GST council can only recommend and it is govt's decision whether to adopt it or not. GOI should not have tried to pass the buck to GST council in court if they cannot defend a tax they had decided to impose. SC has correctly pointed out that GST council does not have the authority to decide and it can only make recommendations.

I do not understand how this interpretation of law alone can derail the entire GST infrastructure currently in place.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Sachin »

srin wrote:Regarding GST, I'm not too sure what's going on. It is surprising but I don't see anything in the Constitution that goes against SC verdict.
Interesting findings :). So looks like the Parliament still has exclusive rights to make laws with respect to goods & services tax in the course of inter-State Trade or commerce. And state legislatures have rights to make such GST laws for trades within a state. And looks like central government still retains the power to frame the laws on how the GST is to be collected and how that will be apportioned between the Union and States. So if this is indeed true, the Central Government is still the master of GST.
Dilbu wrote:GST council can only recommend and it is govt's decision whether to adopt it or not. GOI should not have tried to pass the buck to GST council in court if they cannot defend a tax they had decided to impose.
To be frank, if what you mentioned is correct GoI really required the drubbing they got from the Supreme Court. They should have said that the tax was levied after they found the recommendation from GST Council was merit worthy. Here GoI seems to have clearly tried to weasel out by dumping it on a body who can only sit and recommend.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by vijayk »

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 659715.cms
Supreme Court’s observation in Ocean Freight ruling could change landscape of GST framework: Experts
The Supreme Court’s ruling in the case of ocean freight that is set to give relief to several Indian companies and importers could also change the way the Goods and Services Tax (GST) framework operates in the country, say legal experts.

The Supreme Court on Thursday, ruling has held that GST on ocean freight paid in case of import of goods is unconstitutional. Also, the Indian importers who had paid such tax will be eligible to refund.
Further, those importers who had not paid the tax on import of services will now not be required to pay tax because of this Supreme Court ruling.

The court also said that recommendations by the GST council are not binding on either the union or the state and it has persuasive value.


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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Dilbu »

This ruling provides relief to certain tax payers but how does it change the landscape of GST framework? None of these articles are explaining that part.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by srin »

^^^ It is a big change now. Till now, everybody relied on GST council for the tax rate. Now, each state can fix their own tax rate (SGST) for the goods regardless of what the CGST is or what GST council has said. It'll be back to the old VAT system again - with each state having different rates. It will be a huge mess.
No more "one nation, one tax"
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Atmavik »

^^^ so no more single market
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by nandakumar »

My understanding is that the original dispute on which the Gujarat High Court was asked to rule was this: Is an importer buying goods on a CIF basis and who is also paying customs duty on the freight element of the goods also liable to pay GST on the freight service cost on behalf of the shipping company as the shipping company itself was not subject to Indian jurisdiction. The Gujarat High Court said the importer was not liable to pay GST on freight. The Supreme Court ought to have confined itself to ruling whether the order of the Gujarat High Court was correct. Instead it had gone on to spout something about 'cooperative federalism'- a notion that is not defined in the Constitution.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by krithivas »

^^^ The ideological elements of the SC are attempting to brake check this Government. And it is true that Judge. Chandrachud rambled on and not confining the scope of his judgement to the specifics of this case. Reading part of his judgement, he is actually egging State Governments to go after the Center.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by chetak »

^^^^^^^

The goods and services tax (GST) act has been among this govt's single-biggest achievement to date.

The GST Council is like a congregative forum of "cooperative/coordinated federalism"

the very intent of such a major disruption is suspect, and done as it appears, without any study, application of mind or even a conceptual understanding of the basics of taxation, as indeed, a factual perception of the GST itself.

More than financial, the implications and reverberations of this will impinge directly on the matter of governance itself and the idea of "one nation, one tax" which is a well and truly tested concept that is fair to the people of India.

such a sweeping rational is counterproductive, as well as, inherently having the high potential of being majorly disruptive, and it has also greatly broadened the risk universe for doing business in India.

It has merely, avoidably, and needlessly opened up another unwanted battlefield in ambit the center state relations that will be taken advantage of by some recalcitrant states in the south, as well as, some like bengal, punjab, and some of those in the tribal belt
sanjayc
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by sanjayc »

Judges are nothing but lawyers who develop a halo of all-knowing omniscience the moment they wear the gown. But they just have a LLB degree, nothing else. Reminds me of single-exam wonder IAS who are also considered experts on everything under the sun.
SRajesh
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by SRajesh »

I am no legal-eagle
But is a review of this possible
Can the Central Government appeal or
Can they reverse this with a new legislation
If there’s a legislation will BIF’s to SC questioning it’s legality??
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Dilbu »

There is no change in the legal status of GST council or other impacts on the GST structure due to this verdict. Currently the GST council's recommendations are being accepted by states and the centre on the basis of a 'consensus' and it can continue like that. However this ruling is a loud and clear dog whistle for those parties who would want to disrupt this process. They can and will make use of this judgement to throw a spanner in the smooth functioning of the current process.
Supreme Court Verdict Has No Bearing On How GST Functions: Centre
After the Supreme Court ruled that the GST Council recommendations are not binding on the Centre and the states, government sources on Thursday said this judgement neither has any bearing on how GST has been functioning in India nor lays down anything fundamentally different to the existing framework.
"The top court has only elaborated this mechanism while making its observations. This judgment does not in any way lay down anything new in so far as the GST institutional mechanism is concerned, does not have any bearing on the way GST has been functioning in India, nor lays down anything fundamentally different to the existing framework of GST," sources said.
As prescribed in Article 279A, the Council makes recommendations to the Union and the States on model GST law, principles of levy, apportionment of GST levies on interstate supplies, and principles relating to place of supply, GST rates and special provisions concerning certain States.

The Centre and States implement these recommendations of the Council through normal legislative processes under their respective Acts.
The Central and State Acts also specifically provide that levies, exemptions, rules etc., would be prescribed on the recommendation of the Council through subordinate legislation, the sources said.

The government sources further informed that the GST has been working on this collaborative institutional mechanism with consensus.

"There has been only a solitary instance where the Council took a decision by voting, and even in this case, the dissenting states implemented the decision of GST Council. The decisions have been taken with consensus. This has been the finest example of collaborative and cooperative federalism," sources added.
As the specific issue involved in the matter relating to GST levy on the ocean freight, the court observed that since the Indian importer is liable to pay IGST on the 'composite supply', comprising of supply of goods and supply of services of transportation, insurance, etc. in a CIF contract, a separate levy on the Indian importer for the 'supply of services' by the shipping line would violate Section 8 of the CGST Act.
chetak
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by chetak »

Rsatchi wrote:I am no legal-eagle
But is a review of this possible
Can the Central Government appeal or
Can they reverse this with a new legislation
If there’s a legislation will BIF’s to SC questioning it’s legality??
a new legislation is good, not only in this case but also in a few other cases, because it will then send a long overdue, much needed and an unmistakable strong message.

staying in one's lane is always for the best
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by disha »

Couple of GST news that need to be read and discussed in full:

https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/cent ... -to-states
The Centre on Tuesday released the entire amount of Goods and Services Tax (GST) compensation payable to States up to May 31, 2022, by releasing an amount of ₹86,912 crores.

Of this, Rs 25,000 crore is released from the GST compensation fund and the balance of Rs 61,912 crore is being released by the Centre from its own resources pending collection of cess.
Why did Center decide to clear entire GST compensation dues? Also a statewise GST dues by center to state break down will help. What is the implication to state's expenditure. Will they be able to pay their current account arrears quickly?
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Dilbu »

Found this in another dhaga.
Image
disha
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by disha »

And in other news, Jai Ho!

https://swarajyamag.com/news-headlines/ ... ar-on-year
The gross Goods and Services Tax (GST) revenue collected in the month of May is Rs 1,40,885 crore, registering a growth of 44 percent compared to the same month last year, an official release said on Wednesday (25 May).

...

According to the ministry, this is only the fourth time the monthly GST collection crossed Rs 1.40 lakh crore mark since the inception of GST and the third month at a stretch since March 2022.
*

If this trend of >=1.40 lakh crore revenue holds every month, that will be a major harbinger for the Indian economy.

*Quoted with some grammatical errors fixed.
disha
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by disha »

Dilbu wrote:Found this in another dhaga.
Thanks, Dilbu'ji. In a nutshell, if the states use the GST funds prudently (that is not behind liquor subsidy or some loan mela), then that will positively buoy the local economy for the upcoming monsoon season.
chetak
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by chetak »

disha wrote:Couple of GST news that need to be read and discussed in full:

https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/cent ... -to-states
The Centre on Tuesday released the entire amount of Goods and Services Tax (GST) compensation payable to States up to May 31, 2022, by releasing an amount of ₹86,912 crores.

Of this, Rs 25,000 crore is released from the GST compensation fund and the balance of Rs 61,912 crore is being released by the Centre from its own resources pending collection of cess.
Why did Center decide to clear entire GST compensation dues? Also a statewise GST dues by center to state break down will help. What is the implication to state's expenditure. Will they be able to pay their current account arrears quickly?

disha ji,

could you please enlighten us as to why this was done and what are the political implications, if any

Seems rather a odd thing for the center to do, given the situation
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by hgupta »

Perhaps it was done to ensure no negative reports come out of BJP controlled states regarding their fiscal situation.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by venkat_kv »

hgupta wrote:Perhaps it was done to ensure no negative reports come out of BJP controlled states regarding their fiscal situation.
Hgupta Ji, I quite didn't understand the comment that no negative reports come out of BJP ruled states regarding fiscal situation. are the BJP ruled states facing any economic crunch?

Other than Karnataka and UP, most of the money is going to Maha, Bengal, TN and Delhi in absolute numbers. Kerala and Punjab have more given back than Gujarat.

the numbers are not constant. States like AP have huge money given back (some 3k odd crores) and telanagan has some 300 given back, both non BJP ruled states.
hgupta
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by hgupta »

No need to call me ji pls. What I was trying to say is that BJP may have wanted to avoid having eggs on its face when fiscal indicators come out as being negative (whether it be true or not) in BJP ruled states whereas non BJP ruled states are suffering fiscal effects & consequences. It is just conjecture at that point. BJP is being hit on all sides in a well coordinated attack by BIF forces and BJP needs some wins.
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by Manish_P »

GST evasion of Rs 55,575 cr detected in last 2 years
GST authorities have detected GST fraud of Rs 55,575 crore over the last two years and arrested over 700 persons for causing loss to the exchequer, an official said on Thursday.

Over 22,300 fake GST identification numbers (GSTIN) were detected by the officers of the Directorate General of GST Intelligence (DGGI).
chetak
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Post by chetak »

Manish_P wrote:GST evasion of Rs 55,575 cr detected in last 2 years
GST authorities have detected GST fraud of Rs 55,575 crore over the last two years and arrested over 700 persons for causing loss to the exchequer, an official said on Thursday.

Over 22,300 fake GST identification numbers (GSTIN) were detected by the officers of the Directorate General of GST Intelligence (DGGI).
Shops in many towns and cities simply do not give a bill.

There seems to be a large loohole left purposely to cater to such clientele.

as with any law in India, first build the loophole and they construct the law around it.

looks like that is how the wheels of the local economy is kept oiled and greased

BTW, try and ask any beardo weirdo for a bill and see the reaction
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