GST - Discussion on all aspects.

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chetak
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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby chetak » 25 Nov 2017 13:52

Mort Walker wrote:
JayS wrote:
Un-branded food items are not taxed under GST.


What does unbranded mean exactly? It is in a box with a name, then it is branded?


I think that it means something sold loose and without packing. Kirana shops including players like reliance and big bazzar sell loose rice, dal etc by weight out of a sack or maybe an open box.

smaller kirana shops additionally, sell cooking oil, ghee etc also by weight or by volume. If you take your own bottle, they will pour out 100 ml of cooking oil for you if you want.

There is no tax on such sales. If you buy a factory made sealed pack of any oil, rice or dal then you may wind up being taxed.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby JayS » 25 Nov 2017 14:31

chetak wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:
What does unbranded mean exactly? It is in a box with a name, then it is branded?


I think that it means something sold loose and without packing. Kirana shops including players like reliance and big bazzar sell loose rice, dal etc by weight out of a sack or maybe an open box.

smaller kirana shops additionally, sell cooking oil, ghee etc also by weight or by volume. If you take your own bottle, they will pour out 100 ml of cooking oil for you if you want.

There is no tax on such sales. If you buy a factory made sealed pack of any oil, rice or dal then you may wind up being taxed.


Lose stuff is definitely unbranded. But also stuff sold with packaging and a name to it, but if the name is not registered as trademark and cannot have claim on it, of say copyright or any such type then also its unbranded. For it to be called branded, the brand name must be registered as trademark with some regulatory agency and must be unique.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby srin » 26 Nov 2017 18:48

Mort Walker wrote:
Thanks. I will continue to search on my own too. Replacing the VAT on fuel with GST may cause revenue losses to the states, but they may impose cess fees to make up for some of the losses. Right now when oil prices are low, a GST of 28% + cess fees may keep the price of fuel the same or a few Rs. higher, but when oil prices go up, fuel prices will cause inflation.

Pappu is arguing for a fixed 18% GST cap on fuel. Perhaps one of his (or sycophant's) better ideas. Rather they should complain about the GST council's incompetence rather than the NDA government.

Bring Petrol, Diesel Under GST; Cap Upper Limit at 18%, Rahul Challenges BJP


Sorry for the late response. I've been wondering about the impact of GST on fuel prices.

One thing came to my mind. Today, the Govt can't increase fuel prices beyond a point. Increase diesel prices, and it risks inflation (transportation cost of just about everything will go up). Increase petrol prices, and people will go to diesel cars (which has been happening). OTOH, diesel vehicles are the new target for anti-pollution drive (eg: NGT banning sale of diesel cars in NCR), and Govt doesn't like losing revenue to public using diesel vehicles.

Now, with GST, they have a means to break the Guardian knot - they can increase the diesel prices and bring it equal or higher than petrol prices (cess included). Truckers don't have an issue because of tax credits (and if they aren't under GST, they will come under GST). I suspect even taxi operators can come under this. While public diesel car owners will pay a higher price.

May not happen overnight, but I suspect will happen very shortly afterwards.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby chetak » 26 Nov 2017 20:01

JayS wrote:
chetak wrote:
I think that it means something sold loose and without packing. Kirana shops including players like reliance and big bazzar sell loose rice, dal etc by weight out of a sack or maybe an open box.

smaller kirana shops additionally, sell cooking oil, ghee etc also by weight or by volume. If you take your own bottle, they will pour out 100 ml of cooking oil for you if you want.

There is no tax on such sales. If you buy a factory made sealed pack of any oil, rice or dal then you may wind up being taxed.


Lose stuff is definitely unbranded. But also stuff sold with packaging and a name to it, but if the name is not registered as trademark and cannot have claim on it, of say copyright or any such type then also its unbranded. For it to be called branded, the brand name must be registered as trademark with some regulatory agency and must be unique.


many guys tried this stunt. Getting themselves deregistered, packing in unmarked packs ityadi ityadi. The govt cracked down on all of them.

There are some items, absolutely small time items like fresh potato chips, muruku etc, etc which are made by housewife type enterprises and sold very locally to just a few shops. These are also considered or tolerated as unbranded. These one man type shows sell in a very limited area and to known people only. Their packing is unprofessional and mainly for dust protection, often using candle flame or small cheap electric hand sealing machine and done more often than not, in your presence, most of the time. local health inspectors are an absolute terror for these guys and they get fleeced mercilessly

Beyond that GST applies.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby JayS » 26 Nov 2017 21:21

chetak wrote:
JayS wrote:
Lose stuff is definitely unbranded. But also stuff sold with packaging and a name to it, but if the name is not registered as trademark and cannot have claim on it, of say copyright or any such type then also its unbranded. For it to be called branded, the brand name must be registered as trademark with some regulatory agency and must be unique.


many guys tried this stunt. Getting themselves deregistered, packing in unmarked packs ityadi ityadi. The govt cracked down on all of them.

There are some items, absolutely small time items like fresh potato chips, muruku etc, etc which are made by housewife type enterprises and sold very locally to just a few shops. These are also considered or tolerated as unbranded. These one man type shows sell in a very limited area and to known people only. Their packing is unprofessional and mainly for dust protection, often using candle flame or small cheap electric hand sealing machine and done more often than not, in your presence, most of the time. local health inspectors are an absolute terror for these guys and they get fleeced mercilessly

Beyond that GST applies.


http://www.thehindu.com/business/Indust ... 216574.ece

The Ministry of Finance on Wednesday clarified that for the purposes of Goods and Services Tax (GST) applicability, an item will be deemed to be ‘branded’ if it carries a brand name or trade name that is registered under the Trade Marks Act, 1999.

“Doubts are being raised as to the meaning of registered brand name,” an official statement said. “In this context, the notification… clearly defines ‘registered brand name’ as brand name or trade name, which is registered under the Trade Marks Act, 1999. In this regard, Section 2 (w) read with section 2 (t) of the Trade Marks Act, 1999 provide that a registered trade mark means a trade mark which is actually on the Register of Trade Marks and remaining in force.”

“Thus, unless the brand name or trade name is actually on the Register of Trade Marks and is in force under the Trade Marks Act, 1999, CGST rate of 5% will not be applicable on the supply of such goods,” the statement added


If someone deregisters the brandname I think he is entitled to get off GST.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby chetak » 26 Nov 2017 21:40

JayS wrote:
chetak wrote:
many guys tried this stunt. Getting themselves deregistered, packing in unmarked packs ityadi ityadi. The govt cracked down on all of them.

There are some items, absolutely small time items like fresh potato chips, muruku etc, etc which are made by housewife type enterprises and sold very locally to just a few shops. These are also considered or tolerated as unbranded. These one man type shows sell in a very limited area and to known people only. Their packing is unprofessional and mainly for dust protection, often using candle flame or small cheap electric hand sealing machine and done more often than not, in your presence, most of the time. local health inspectors are an absolute terror for these guys and they get fleeced mercilessly

Beyond that GST applies.


http://www.thehindu.com/business/Indust ... 216574.ece

The Ministry of Finance on Wednesday clarified that for the purposes of Goods and Services Tax (GST) applicability, an item will be deemed to be ‘branded’ if it carries a brand name or trade name that is registered under the Trade Marks Act, 1999.

“Doubts are being raised as to the meaning of registered brand name,” an official statement said. “In this context, the notification… clearly defines ‘registered brand name’ as brand name or trade name, which is registered under the Trade Marks Act, 1999. In this regard, Section 2 (w) read with section 2 (t) of the Trade Marks Act, 1999 provide that a registered trade mark means a trade mark which is actually on the Register of Trade Marks and remaining in force.”

“Thus, unless the brand name or trade name is actually on the Register of Trade Marks and is in force under the Trade Marks Act, 1999, CGST rate of 5% will not be applicable on the supply of such goods,” the statement added


If someone deregisters the brandname I think he is entitled to get off GST.



No escape for deregistered food brands

Sidhartha Aug 7, 2017,

New Delhi: The government has decided to plug a loophole for food companies, which were deregistering their brands to avoid paying 5% goods and services tax (GST).

Sources said to check "tax avoidance", any brand which was registered on or before May 15, will be deemed to be registered for paying GST, even if it is successfully deregistered. The registration under the Copyright Act or similar law abroad on or before May 15 will be treated as valid. While unbranded cereals, pulses and several other food products do not attract GST, those sold in "unit containers" and sold under a registered brand name attract 5% levy. As a result, several brands, including some prominent basmati rice players, had deregistered some of the brands to avoid paying GST.

Industry representatives have sought an end to the differential tax treatment, which the government is not keen on. The government believes that unbranded food products should not face a levy as they are consumed by the poor. While this had attracted the finance ministry's attention a couple of weeks ago, the issue has now been taken up at the level of the GST Council, headed by finance minister Arun Jaitley, with his counterpart from the states being members.

On Saturday, Jaitley had said that the government had found a way to check avoidance but did not elaborate on the strategy. Sources said that the plan using May 15 as the cut-off date is expected to be finalised at the GST Council meeting next month.


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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby JayS » 26 Nov 2017 21:53

chetak wrote:
JayS wrote:
http://www.thehindu.com/business/Indust ... 216574.ece



If someone deregisters the brandname I think he is entitled to get off GST.



No escape for deregistered food brands

Sidhartha Aug 7, 2017,

New Delhi: The government has decided to plug a loophole for food companies, which were deregistering their brands to avoid paying 5% goods and services tax (GST).

Sources said to check "tax avoidance", any brand which was registered on or before May 15, will be deemed to be registered for paying GST, even if it is successfully deregistered. The registration under the Copyright Act or similar law abroad on or before May 15 will be treated as valid. While unbranded cereals, pulses and several other food products do not attract GST, those sold in "unit containers" and sold under a registered brand name attract 5% levy. As a result, several brands, including some prominent basmati rice players, had deregistered some of the brands to avoid paying GST.

Industry representatives have sought an end to the differential tax treatment, which the government is not keen on. The government believes that unbranded food products should not face a levy as they are consumed by the poor. While this had attracted the finance ministry's attention a couple of weeks ago, the issue has now been taken up at the level of the GST Council, headed by finance minister Arun Jaitley, with his counterpart from the states being members.

On Saturday, Jaitley had said that the government had found a way to check avoidance but did not elaborate on the strategy. Sources said that the plan using May 15 as the cut-off date is expected to be finalised at the GST Council meeting next month.



I had read that. But after that GOI again amended this irrational thing (if someone is willing to get deregistered GOI cannot/should not stop them, but only make sure they do it properly).

https://www.bloombergquint.com/gst/2017 ... -lower-gst

The government on Wednesday said businesses which want to deregister their brands for availing the benefit of lower GST, will have to file an affidavit before the tax commissioner about foregoing the rights.
Also, the businesses will have to print in indelible ink on containers in which they are selling cereals, pulses, flours that they have voluntarily foregone actionable claim or enforceable right on brands, a finance ministry statement said.


Here is link showing amendement to GST. Govt link is not working for me for some reason so this alternative link:

https://studycafe.in/2017/11/cgstrate-n ... tions.html

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby srinebula » 26 Nov 2017 22:00

Has anyone used Swiggy for food delivery?
These guys are applying GST on top of the GST included prices of restaurants.
I have noticed this consistently across multiple restaurants they deliver from.
Also, Swiggy never quotes their GSTN on the invoice they generate.

I am not very sure, but it seems like these guys are collecting extra money in the name of GST.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby chetak » 26 Nov 2017 22:26

srinebula wrote:Has anyone used Swiggy for food delivery?
These guys are applying GST on top of the GST included prices of restaurants.
I have noticed this consistently across multiple restaurants they deliver from.
Also, Swiggy never quotes their GSTN on the invoice they generate.

I am not very sure, but it seems like these guys are collecting extra money in the name of GST.


There is a number that you can register GST complaints on. It should be on the web.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby JayS » 26 Nov 2017 22:37

srinebula wrote:Has anyone used Swiggy for food delivery?
These guys are applying GST on top of the GST included prices of restaurants.
I have noticed this consistently across multiple restaurants they deliver from.
Also, Swiggy never quotes their GSTN on the invoice they generate.

I am not very sure, but it seems like these guys are collecting extra money in the name of GST.


I have personally never used Swiggy, but it seems legit to me, them adding tax, since they provide service. However they should only charge on their service charge and not the whole food price. For ex if you order food worth 100 buck the restaurant charges 5% on it as GST. Say Swiggy charges you 10 bucks for delivery, their GST would be on this 10 bucks, 18% of it I suppose as its service. If they are charging on 100 rupees then its definitely something you should complaint about.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby srinebula » 27 Nov 2017 09:39

JayS wrote:
srinebula wrote:Has anyone used Swiggy for food delivery?
These guys are applying GST on top of the GST included prices of restaurants.
I have noticed this consistently across multiple restaurants they deliver from.
Also, Swiggy never quotes their GSTN on the invoice they generate.

I am not very sure, but it seems like these guys are collecting extra money in the name of GST.


I have personally never used Swiggy, but it seems legit to me, them adding tax, since they provide service. However they should only charge on their service charge and not the whole food price. For ex if you order food worth 100 buck the restaurant charges 5% on it as GST. Say Swiggy charges you 10 bucks for delivery, their GST would be on this 10 bucks, 18% of it I suppose as its service. If they are charging on 100 rupees then its definitely something you should complaint about.


They are charging on total food bill, not on delivery charges. Earlier they were charging 18%; now after revised rates, they are charging 5%.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Schmidt » 27 Nov 2017 09:58

^^^^

We use Swiggy regularly

Their service levels are even better than the direct restaurant takeaway service levels

You log into Swiggy website and order from the restaurant you choose and make payment to the restaurant

The bill you get is from the restaurant , not from Swiggy

I guess they get some commission from the restaurants as their service / delivery charges do not appear anywhere in the bill

They are not charging double GST as claimed above

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Schmidt » 27 Nov 2017 09:59

You can see Swiggy delivery guys hanging around various restaurants , waiting to collect the orders

They have no infra to generate real time bills themselves

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Schmidt » 27 Nov 2017 10:03

OK , they have a MIN order value ( I think 200 or 250 )

Less than that , they will charge you 30 Rs as deliver charges + GST

But we have not had to face this issue

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby JayS » 27 Nov 2017 11:40

srinebula wrote:
JayS wrote:
I have personally never used Swiggy, but it seems legit to me, them adding tax, since they provide service. However they should only charge on their service charge and not the whole food price. For ex if you order food worth 100 buck the restaurant charges 5% on it as GST. Say Swiggy charges you 10 bucks for delivery, their GST would be on this 10 bucks, 18% of it I suppose as its service. If they are charging on 100 rupees then its definitely something you should complaint about.


They are charging on total food bill, not on delivery charges. Earlier they were charging 18%; now after revised rates, they are charging 5%.

You mean the restaurant charges 5% and then Swiggy charges another 5% on the same food amount..? That would be wrong.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby srinebula » 27 Nov 2017 12:04

JayS wrote:
srinebula wrote:
They are charging on total food bill, not on delivery charges. Earlier they were charging 18%; now after revised rates, they are charging 5%.

You mean the restaurant charges 5% and then Swiggy charges another 5% on the same food amount..? That would be wrong.


Yes. On few occasions, I managed to get the original bill from the restaurant when Swiggy delivers.
Here is what I observed:
Restaurant price of an item: Rs. 100
restaurant GST : Rs. 5
----------------------------
item price listed on Swiggy : Rs 105
Swiggy adds GST as part of bill @5%: Rs. 5.25
Total price collected by Swiggy for the item: 110.25
------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby JayS » 27 Nov 2017 12:10

srinebula wrote:
JayS wrote:You mean the restaurant charges 5% and then Swiggy charges another 5% on the same food amount..? That would be wrong.


Yes. On few occasions, I managed to get the original bill from the restaurant when Swiggy delivers.
Here is what I observed:
Restaurant price of an item: Rs. 100
restaurant GST : Rs. 5
----------------------------
item price listed on Swiggy : Rs 105
Swiggy adds GST as part of bill @5%: Rs. 5.25
Total price collected by Swiggy for the item: 110.25
------------------------------------------------------------------

That's definitely a fraud.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Manish_P » 27 Nov 2017 12:56

I use swiggy at least 2-3 times a week. They charge GST on the entire bill value. Whats more is that the GST % is not exactly 5% either. Sometimes it is 4.99%... sometimes it is 5.02% :roll:

In some cases the product price charged by Siwggy is the same as on Zomato (which claims to be the accurate pricing as per the restaurant)

So the GST charge would then be correct.

However in some cases i have seen the price discrepancy between the actual bill and that as given on Zomato (they do clearly state that they cannot guarantee the accuracy since it can be either collected from the restaurant or uploaded by a user)

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Manish_P » 27 Nov 2017 13:06

Attaching 2 Swiggy bills... just FYI

Image

and

Image

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby chetak » 27 Nov 2017 13:27

srinebula wrote:
JayS wrote:You mean the restaurant charges 5% and then Swiggy charges another 5% on the same food amount..? That would be wrong.


Yes. On few occasions, I managed to get the original bill from the restaurant when Swiggy delivers.
Here is what I observed:
Restaurant price of an item: Rs. 100
restaurant GST : Rs. 5
----------------------------
item price listed on Swiggy : Rs 105
Swiggy adds GST as part of bill @5%: Rs. 5.25
Total price collected by Swiggy for the item: 110.25
------------------------------------------------------------------


where there is a will, there is always a way

and...........

where there is a way, there is always a crook.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby disha » 28 Nov 2017 02:10

^^ I do not think that is cheating., since they are treating the entire service delivery as product. And this as well allows Swiggy to claim input-tax credit. Actually they should go and claim ITC and the government will refund them Rs. 5 (and retaining 0.25) and the restaurant has to now show its 5% tax. Swiggy might not be getting the full refund since all the restaurants might not be filing their own tax returns and Swiggy cannot sustain a 5% loss till all the cows from all restaurants come home for tax credits.

If Swiggy needs to stay in business though can actually credit back the Rs. 5/- into the accounts of the people who order food as 'discounts' and actually let their users know which restaurants are preferred so that they get a cash back. And this will actually penalize bad eggs!

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Vips » 28 Nov 2017 03:33

GST collections dip in october to Rs 83346 crores.

GST collections in October slipped to Rs 83,346 crore, from over Rs 92,000 crore last month, as taxes on most commodities have come down.

The total collection of GST till November 27 is Rs 83,346 crore for October and 50.1 lakh returns have been filed for the month, a finance ministry statement said.

The Centre has released a compensation of Rs 10,806 crore to states for July and August. A compensation of Rs 13,695 crore for September and October is being released, it added.

The states’ revenues have been fully protected taking base year revenue as 2015-16 and providing a projected revenue growth rate of 14 per cent,” the ministry said.

As per data available, GST collections in the maiden month of July was over Rs 95,000 crore while in August, the figure was over Rs 91,000 crore. In September, it was over Rs 92,150 crore.

October is the fourth month of GST rollout.

Explaining the downward trend in tax revenue under GST, the ministry said initially Integrated GST was paid on transfer of goods from one state to another.

“As and when the final transaction of these goods takes place, the credit for IGST is being utilised for payment of SGST and CGST and therefore, the inflow of new taxes is low,” it said.

Also, since the overall incidence of taxes on most of the commodities has come down under GST, it would naturally have some implication on the revenues of the government, the ministry said.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby arshyam » 28 Nov 2017 06:48

Schmidt wrote:You can see Swiggy delivery guys hanging around various restaurants , waiting to collect the orders

They have no infra to generate real time bills themselves

Agreed. I use Swiggy regularly, and haven't noticed any discrepancy. In fact, the prices on Swiggy felt noticeably cheaper after the rate cut, as opposed to some restaurants that hiked their menu prices. But the catch is, if the restaurant hikes the prices, there is not much Swiggy can do, since they charge whatever the restaurant charges.

Next time, to confirm, I'll order from the same restaurant in person and from Swiggy for a better comparison.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby VKumar » 29 Nov 2017 00:26

Vips wrote:GST collections dip in october to Rs 83346 crores.

GST collections in October slipped to Rs 83,346 crore, from over Rs 92,000 crore last month, as taxes on most commodities have come down.

The total collection of GST till November 27 is Rs 83,346 crore for October and 50.1 lakh returns have been filed for the month, a finance ministry statement said.

The Centre has released a compensation of Rs 10,806 crore to states for July and August. A compensation of Rs 13,695 crore for September and October is being released, it added.

The states’ revenues have been fully protected taking base year revenue as 2015-16 and providing a projected revenue growth rate of 14 per cent,” the ministry said.

As per data available, GST collections in the maiden month of July was over Rs 95,000 crore while in August, the figure was over Rs 91,000 crore. In September, it was over Rs 92,150 crore.

October is the fourth month of GST rollout.

Explaining the downward trend in tax revenue under GST, the ministry said initially Integrated GST was paid on transfer of goods from one state to another.

“As and when the final transaction of these goods takes place, the credit for IGST is being utilised for payment of SGST and CGST and therefore, the inflow of new taxes is low,” it said.

Also, since the overall incidence of taxes on most of the commodities has come down under GST, it would naturally have some implication on the revenues of the government, the ministry said.


Outstanding from 1st July, unavailed input Tax Credit is being used up by importers and once this is consumed all will be well again.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby chetak » 03 Dec 2017 01:42

I would not dismiss this as a mere coincidence.

Various owners of infosys are politically ambitious and also are members of or sympathizers of the opposition to the govt.



Govt wants Infosys to fix GSTN glitches


Govt wants Infosys to fix GSTN glitches
By NAVTAN KUMAR | NEW DELHI | 26 November, 2017



Group of Ministers (GoM), headed by Bihar Deputy CM Sushil Modi, recently found that the company could not fix all 27 technical glitches.


Infosys is under pressure from the Centre to fix the technical glitches in the GST Network (GSTN) even as traders have threatened to move court if no action is taken against the company. The software company has built the technology network for GST and is also responsible for maintaining it.

The Group of Ministers (GoM), headed by Bihar deputy chief minister Sushil Kumar Modi, which was formed to look into the issue, recently found that the company could not fix all 27 technical glitches, which were communicated to the Infosys.

Following this, Infosys has added 100 engineers for the project in the last one month, said a source. Besides, the company has deployed 30 resident engineers all over the country to coordinate between the state governments and GSTN. The GSTN has launched a facility for businesses to make changes to their August and September return forms.

The company has been asked to develop taxpayer friendly utilities so that they are interactive in nature. Every utility should have the option for preview, edit, validation, specific error messages and print, the company has been asked.

Sources said the GoM was informed that the company was trying its best and that some glitches were surfacing because of changes made by the GST Council.

However, the company is not sharing details about its plan as to how it proposes to tackle the issue. A company spokesperson refused to divulge details when The Sunday Guardian sought response. Infosys had won the Rs 1,380 crore contract to implement the GSTN and maintain it for five years in September 2015.

Meanwhile, trade body Confederation of All India Traders which had earlier demanded a CBI enquiry into as to why the company failed to provide an efficient portal, has now threatened to move court if action is not against the company. The CAIT said it fails to understand why no action is being taken against Infosys and other companies who have taken the contract of GST portal. The traders’ body has alleged that Infosys came up with a lame excuse and declining that there was something wrong with the GSTN.

“If no immediate action is taken against Infosys, it will have no other alternative left but to take shelter of the court of law to intervene in the matter and while identifying the culprits award then suitable punishment for non-performance and wastage of public money,” said CAIT convenor Praveen Khandelwal.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Mort Walker » 05 Dec 2017 23:35

Couldn’t Infosys be fined for not fixing GSTN in a timely manner? It would seem to be a breech of contract.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby nam » 05 Dec 2017 23:54

It is a case of incompetence.

Business model of earning money by fixing bugs means tunnel vision and our software biggies flounder in Greenfield projects. Unless you show the danda, the biggies don't take it seriously.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Bart S » 06 Dec 2017 00:55

It wouldn't be surprising though if the sheer incompetence of the Govt/Bureaucrats (evidenced over the years on a whole host of defence contracts that put us at a distinct disadvantage) contributed to a flimsy contract with Infosys that lets them get away without any consequences or penalties.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Dec 2017 02:27

"One-window License" (2 steal)
I should have known. Have been seeing these massively impressive PPT presentations with flow charts and those cute rectangular arrows and brilliant colors - that must have taken someone MANY hours. But when you go through all the System-Of-System-Of-System garbage, it is just garbage. Anyone who has used the sign-in portal to IncomeTax India knows that was set by drunken chimpanzees having a bad day.

What do they do - send anyone who has any competence to do phoren projects where there are consequences and put the political appointees to do GOI work? Reminds me of Obama's WHOTUS that gave the Obamacare portal contracts based on race and color. Or the Air Frogistan weanies standing around with their dysfunctional Systeme De Luxe De Messup Avions.

I came here to post a question about why this uber-simplified One Tax is so *&^%*( difficult to do. Figures.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Yagnasri » 06 Dec 2017 04:14

We do not know what is the contract they have infy for GST service. Is there any performance guarantee given by them if yes, whether MoF GoI invoked it as infy clearly failed to provide that service. Maybe someone needs to file RTI application on the entire process of selection of infy and what really happened after that.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Mort Walker » 06 Dec 2017 04:28

Yagnasri wrote:We do not know what is the contract they have infy for GST service. Is there any performance guarantee given by them if yes, whether MoF GoI invoked it as infy clearly failed to provide that service. Maybe someone needs to file RTI application on the entire process of selection of infy and what really happened after that.


I would hope the MoF would place conditions on payment such as on-time completion, system up-time, and resolution of software errors. Infoysys may not be able to fix all 27 technical glitches in a few weeks, but certainly the more severe errors would be corrected first followed by the rest over 90 days. Otherwise it is a loss of revenue and Infosys should be heavily heavily fined and then penalized by no further government contracts.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Yagnasri » 06 Dec 2017 09:39

Software companies of India work in more harsh conditions when dealing with customers. Particularly customers from abroad. I do not see any reason why they should not deliver things to GoI. This project is critical for the nation. If Infy does not step up then there is no reason to continue with them.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Zynda » 06 Dec 2017 11:00

^^I'd imagine one of the primary reasons being USD/EU-INR conversion ratio...lot more revenue per min of efforts compared to INR. Similar reason why I think we rarely have engagements outside of EU/US/Canada/Japan/Australia.

At least in my industry, most private sector folks, especially SMSEs loathe dealing with GoI entities...

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Suraj » 08 Dec 2017 01:41

Eatery not passing on GST cut benefit? How you can file a complaint
If you find that some eateries are charging goods and services tax (GST) rates that were applicable before the recent reduction or that some establishment is not passing on the benefits of lower rates to you, the consumer, then you have the option of filing a formal anti-profiteering complaint. However, the process is not simple or straightforward.

The Central Board of Excise and Customs has uploaded the format of the anti-profiteering application form on its website so that prospective complainants can make use of it. A look at the format reveals that the application requires extensive mandatory details, such as the GST registration number of the supplier who has allegedly not passed on the benefits, Harmonised System of Nomenclature code, the taxes applicable on the product or service before GST's implementation or under a previous GST rate, and the post-GST reduction in amount of tax per unit, among other things.

A good start but someone needs to make the submission process less bureaucratic. Whoever implemented this first version has not worked a day in customer service.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Sachin » 08 Dec 2017 19:16

Suraj wrote:A good start but someone needs to make the submission process less bureaucratic. Whoever implemented this first version has not worked a day in customer service.

Standard, Indian Babu mentality. Make the form filing complex, so that no one can do this by themselves. The complainant need to give the GSTN number of the trouble maker vendor. And yes, he is just willing to give that number to a potential complainant. I remember in KL, for a simple thing as a marriage certificate an "application" (not a standard form) in legalese/official Malayalam. Now if that is tough, not to worry there are agents right outside the office sitting to write out such applications for a fee.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Mort Walker » 09 Dec 2017 01:13

Suraj wrote:Eatery not passing on GST cut benefit? How you can file a complaint
If you find that some eateries are charging goods and services tax (GST) rates that were applicable before the recent reduction or that some establishment is not passing on the benefits of lower rates to you, the consumer, then you have the option of filing a formal anti-profiteering complaint. However, the process is not simple or straightforward.

The Central Board of Excise and Customs has uploaded the format of the anti-profiteering application form on its website so that prospective complainants can make use of it. A look at the format reveals that the application requires extensive mandatory details, such as the GST registration number of the supplier who has allegedly not passed on the benefits, Harmonised System of Nomenclature code, the taxes applicable on the product or service before GST's implementation or under a previous GST rate, and the post-GST reduction in amount of tax per unit, among other things.

A good start but someone needs to make the submission process less bureaucratic. Whoever implemented this first version has not worked a day in customer service.


It needs to be complex as it is your word against the eatery. The eatry claims to be charging the GST on the bill and you claim they are not passing on the benefit. For every complaint filed, the board must reconcile it with the business. This is a burden both for the business and the board.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby A_Gupta » 13 Dec 2017 03:44

India's garment imports from Bangladesh up 56% post-GST
http://www.fibre2fashion.com/news/appar ... etails.htm
Commenting on the increase in imports, Confederation of Indian Textile Industry (CITI) chairman Sanjay K Jain said the exemption of the basic custom duty on imports of garments from Bangladesh is the main reason.

“In the pre-GST Scenario, import of garment from Bangladesh was attracting cost of Rs 77/pc (where MRP Rs 999/pc) and Rs 116/pc (where MRP is Rs 1500/pc) in the shape of CVD + education cess thereon. However, in the post- GST period, there is no cost for import of garments from Bangladesh,” Jain said in a CITI press release.


https://www.thedollarbusiness.com/news/ ... orts/51521
“Garment manufacturers in India have to pay duty on imported fabrics, while Bangladesh can import fabric from China duty free and convert them into garments and sell to India duty free. This is putting Indian garment industry at a major disadvantage and it is feared that this figure will go up further in the coming days as more Indian Brands shift sourcing from India to low cost duty-free countries like Bangladesh and Sri Lanka,” the statement said.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Aditya_V » 13 Dec 2017 18:58

Unless there is a trade agreement, CVD- GST and Customs will apply on Bangladesh imports unless they are smuggled in. I think this not GST issue but exemption of Customs Duty on Bangladeshi Garments which is used to illegally import Chinese Garments.

GST does not matter, it is just a spin to give a political colour to this.

However, after GST, the basic customs duty on the garments is exempted and imports cost less now. Hence, the Indian garment producers face competition from countries such as Bangladesh in the domestic market too.


This is a plain lie, GST does not subsume Basic Customs Duty.

This is the issue and Not GST related.

Mr. Jain appealed to the Union Government to impose safeguard measures such as Rules of Origin, yarn and fabric Forward Rules on countries such as Sri Lanka and Bangladesh that have free trade agreements with India.


This maybe the issue

http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/please-note-imported-garments-to-become-5-6-cheaper-with-gst-117061200766_1.html

The government had levied this duty as protection for domestic players. With the GST, this duty protection will be removed and imported garments will be 5-6 per cent cheaper. The government has fixed 5 per cent as the GST rate on all textile products and apparel,” said Rahul Mehta, president, Clothing Manufacturers Association of India.


Problem is our free trade agreement with Bangladesh and Sri Lanka while they shaft us buying Chinese Submarines and leasing ports to China.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby tandav » 18 Dec 2017 04:54

The GST portal should have a payments portal linked in so that companies can make a payment against invoice raised on them directly. This will allow people to pay both the tax online and will allow data mining of all the companies that are using the tardiness/incompetence/sloth of the Indian Judicial System to gain undue credit from their vendors typically by delaying payments on works invoiced.

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Re: GST - Discussion on all aspects.

Postby Mollick.R » 18 Dec 2017 16:33

Despite GST jitters, BJP on way to winning almost all Surat seats :D :D :D

NEW DELHI: Not only is the BJP set to take Gujarat again+ , it appears it has retained most of the seats in Surat where it faced significant resentment over the introduction of the Goods and Services Tax Act (GST).

The unified tax was a significant poll issue, especially in Surat, the hub of the 'baniya', or trader, community. Comprising Patels as well, this community held almost 14 percent of the vote in the state. And they were not happy with the incumbent BJP for the hit the tax caused to their businesses.


...........Still, the Congress didn't succeed. But for a while there, it appeared to be touch and go for the BJP.
Soon after the GST rollout on July 1, many traders' organisations held protest rallies; one by textile traders in Surat was especially significant. These traders, weavers and those connected with the embroidery sector form the country's largest man-made fabric hub in Surat.

A panicked BJP realised it had to stem the flow of those moving away from it in their affiliation. The Centre reduced GST on yarn to 12% from 18%, increased basic customs duty by 25% to curb the import of undervalued fabrics from China, and gave relief in filing of GST returns.

The Centre cut tax rates on artificial filament yarn such as viscose and rayon, as well as yarn of manmade staple fibres. These were brought under the 5 per cent slab from the previous 12 per cent.

A similar change was made for the tax rate on food items like khakhra (a popular Gujarati snack), as well as for some categories of namkeens. Many relief measures were brought for exporters. And a day before the Election Commission revealed the dates for the Gujarat polls, the Vijay Rupani government waived GST on micro irrigation equipment as well.


......."We will go with Congress this time, GST has made our lives difficult," said Amrish Bhai, owner of a diamond-polishing unit that employs 50 artisans.
Today, it appears these disgruntled traders were in a minority and that Bhupendra Yadav, the BJP's national general secretary and Gujarat in-charge was correct.
"We have been looking at the traders' complaints on GST quite sympathetically. Every month, the GST Council has been announcing some relaxation or the other. In Surat, we will win all the seats," Yadav said to The Economic Times mid-November.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/despite-gst-jitters-bjp-on-way-to-winning-almost-all-surat-seats/articleshow/62116063.cms


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