Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

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Supratik
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Supratik » 17 Feb 2018 21:02

UK shelters all types of crooks. So Mallya made a good choice. Nirav Modi is likely to move to a place where he cannot be or will not be extradited. Ultimately it is upto the coercive diplomatic ability of India and the ability of Indian agencies to provide evidence. There are many inefficient and corrupt people in the agencies as well.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby vijayk » 17 Feb 2018 21:13

IndraD wrote:
Supratik wrote:Arrests have started happening.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/money/topstor ... spartanntp

whatever....it has given a huge stick to modi baiters to do = = between cong & modi...and 2019 is not far away.
of course be assured nirav is never coming back.
Malya has been approved £70000/month of allowance to keep his opulent life style afloat by British court.


what? who pays? British citizens?

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Supratik » 17 Feb 2018 21:37

Mallya would have parked part of his money in UK just in case. Most crooks and many HNIs park their money around the world.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby chanakyaa » 17 Feb 2018 22:37

The amounts keep getting bigger and bigger...

Indian banks may take more than $3 bln hit from PNB fraud: Tax dept

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby vijayk » 17 Feb 2018 23:03

Why can't we catch these scums in time? How is that every one of them escapes?

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby IndraD » 17 Feb 2018 23:55

vijayk wrote:
IndraD wrote:whatever....it has given a huge stick to modi baiters to do = = between cong & modi...and 2019 is not far away.
of course be assured nirav is never coming back.
Malya has been approved £70000/month of allowance to keep his opulent life style afloat by British court.


what? who pays? British citizens?

Malya: no end to good times https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 906593.cms
How can UK court order Indian banks to unfreeze bank money of Malya?
Malya might have lost million court case+ against Singapore’s BOC Aviation but that does not stop the “King of Good Times” enjoying the high life in the UK.
The high court in London has just increased his weekly living allowance from £5,000 (Rs 4.5 lakh) to £18,325 (Rs 16 lakh) whilst the freeze order on his global assets remains in place.
His weekly allowance equates to the average annual salary of a British school leaver.
“If he is used to a luxury lifestyle then the court will not suddenly make him live on £200 (Rs 17,000) a week,” said Sarosh Zaiwalla, senior partner at Zaiwalla & Co. LLP London. “He is entitled to legal expenses on top. The judge considers his style of living to reach a fair result.”
Mallya, 62, has now applied to have the freeze order against his global assets discharged and the registration of the judgment of the Debt Recovery Tribunal (DRT) in Bengaluru dated January 19, 2017 with the English courts set aside.
A hearing will take place at the high court on April 16 and 17.
The DRT judgment, which 13 Indian banks successfully registered with the English courts under the Foreign Judgments (Reciprocal Enforcement) Act of 1933 last November, states that he owes Rs 9,853 crore, including interest, to the banks as of November 22, 2017. The freeze order is an interim measure until that judgment is enforced.
“There is a reciprocal agreement between India and the UK so if the claimant wins, then the judge will automatically enforce the judgment against the assets frozen. They would either give the assets to the banks or sell them and give the proceeds to the banks. If the claimant fails, then the freezing order will be discharged,” Zaiwalla explained.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby IndraD » 18 Feb 2018 00:01

good cartoons on Nirav escape...
Image

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Suraj » 18 Feb 2018 01:15

So I was mistaken about the precise legal concerns behind a Letter of Undertaking. Wow, PNB are stupid to have run a system where someone could place liabilties on their books without even their own realization of it.

All the more reason that these 20+ PSBs need to be merged, modernized and made more efficient. The NPA issue isn't going to fix itself when banks are so porous.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Bart S » 18 Feb 2018 02:39

Suraj wrote:So I was mistaken about the precise legal concerns behind a Letter of Undertaking. Wow, PNB are stupid to have run a system where someone could place liabilties on their books without even their own realization of it.

All the more reason that these 20+ PSBs need to be merged, modernized and made more efficient. The NPA issue isn't going to fix itself when banks are so porous.


On the face of it, it wasn't PNB per se but some corrupt employees. Of course if the bank had been privatized and they had to work for their money instead of leech off the taxpayer and had any kind of accountability, as a collective PNB entity those very same non-corrupt but lazy and culpable employees would have been more interested in doing their job and preventing such frauds.

Nothing short of cutting them loose and privatizing them, making them accountable for their own survival, both at the individual and collective level will address this. Going by the track record so far, nothing much is going to happen on that front.

This is a crisis, also an opportunity to privatize that will likely be missed.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby vijayk » 18 Feb 2018 04:25

If one Deputy manager can do this much damage, I wonder how many such scams are going on in banks, insurance, Govt. mutual funds, hospitals, colleges, exam boards, employment agencies ... unbelievable how India is surviving.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby vera_k » 18 Feb 2018 06:21

Suraj wrote:All the more reason that these 20+ PSBs need to be merged, modernized and made more efficient. The NPA issue isn't going to fix itself when banks are so porous.


They have to be sold. Unfortunately, I'm sure all said and done, we'll find some political involvement in this fraud given that the bank is government owned.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby chanakyaa » 18 Feb 2018 06:24

Perhaps it make it bit easier to regulate/supervise fewer institutions, but how does it address the root cause of the problem? As long as they know that govt. is there to recapitalize them, bad habits will continue. Genuine NPAs are fact of the banking system but strategic NPAs used to loot PSBs are only encouraging bad habits and creating incentives for politicians, bureaucrats, and crook management to milk the system. Even countries like US where law/regulations are supposed to be tight, mortgage banking fraud by semi-govt lenders (with implicit govt support) such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac brought the entire financial system (and national security) on brink of failure.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Feb 2018 06:36

Bart S wrote:
On the face of it, it wasn't PNB per se but some corrupt employees. Of course if the bank had been privatized and they had to work for their money instead of leech off the taxpayer and had any kind of accountability, as a collective PNB entity those very same non-corrupt but lazy and culpable employees would have been more interested in doing their job and preventing such frauds.

Nothing short of cutting them loose and privatizing them, making them accountable for their own survival, both at the individual and collective level will address this. Going by the track record so far, nothing much is going to happen on that front.

This is a crisis, also an opportunity to privatize that will likely be missed.


Why does one think that private banks are immune from or less susceptible to fraud? Credit Suisse, Barclay's Bank, Wells Fargo; Pricewaterhouse Cooper and Colonial Bank - all these below are just 2018 news-items.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... neva-court
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... qatar-loan
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/busi ... serve.html
http://ww2.cfo.com/fraud/2018/01/pwc-fo ... ank-fraud/

Until white collar crime is treated as severely as regular crime, this will continue.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Bart S » 18 Feb 2018 06:45

A_Gupta wrote:
Bart S wrote:
On the face of it, it wasn't PNB per se but some corrupt employees. Of course if the bank had been privatized and they had to work for their money instead of leech off the taxpayer and had any kind of accountability, as a collective PNB entity those very same non-corrupt but lazy and culpable employees would have been more interested in doing their job and preventing such frauds.

Nothing short of cutting them loose and privatizing them, making them accountable for their own survival, both at the individual and collective level will address this. Going by the track record so far, nothing much is going to happen on that front.

This is a crisis, also an opportunity to privatize that will likely be missed.


Why does one think that private banks are immune from or less susceptible to fraud? Credit Suisse, Barclay's Bank, Wells Fargo; Pricewaterhouse Cooper and Colonial Bank - all these below are just 2018 news-items.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... neva-court
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... qatar-loan
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/busi ... serve.html
http://ww2.cfo.com/fraud/2018/01/pwc-fo ... ank-fraud/

Until white collar crime is treated as severely as regular crime, this will continue.


Sure there is fraud in private banks. But at least taxpayer money is not used to pay for these frauds or employ unionized parasites with appalling productivity and efficiency standards. Instead of this 1.7 B being paid for by the GOI (directly or indirectly) I want PNB to be broken up and sold and it's employees forgo hikes for next 3-4 years, assuming that they are not rolling in profits and $1.7B is not chump change for them. GOI can spend the money it has on infrastructure and health coverage as planned instead of bailing out these parasites.

Yes the US govt bailed out private banks and indirectly used taxpayer money for it, but that is a completely different scam at the govt level.

These so-called banking scams are nothing but a sophisticated way for crony capitalists and politicians/babu nexus to siphon off taxpayer money and national resources.
Last edited by Bart S on 18 Feb 2018 06:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Suraj » 18 Feb 2018 06:47

I'm not in favour of privatizing all the PSBs. There's strategic value in a few large PSBs with $1 trillion+ asset bases each . The charter of interaction between RBI, auditors and the banks needs to be more rigorous though. That simply isn't the case now.

Err, what makes you think private banks are not bailed out with public money ? When a too big to fail bank is teetering, public money comes to the rescue, everywhere, even in US. The 2007-08 crisis is characterized less by who went under than who were bailed out and not allowed to go under.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Karthik S » 18 Feb 2018 07:01

Wouldn't govt and RBI be able to control private banks better than they can PSBs through acts and regulations? IMO, Having SBI as the only PSB is good enough. The rest can be privatized.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby prasannasimha » 18 Feb 2018 07:47

Actually private banks all over the world have caused bigger problems and had to be bailed out by government money when too big to fail or for investor concerns. Thinking everything will be sorted put by privatization is nonsense. Just see the Oh so good service at private banks. Masters at ripping people off. Many of these banks have repeatedly been rapped by RBI and the government for fraudulent practices.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Karthik S » 18 Feb 2018 08:06

^^ Only if your world is confined to just stock market based economies. Even then the 2008 financial fallout could have been averted had GSA wasn't repealed. Fraudulent practices by pvt banks is not a sound reason to talk against privatization. You have necessary regulations in place against such fraudulent practices, and impose fines on guilty, that's how to go about it rather than losing thousands of crores of public money. Having one big PSB like SBI is enough.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby chanakyaa » 18 Feb 2018 08:09

Please ignore LIC part.
Image

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby chetak » 18 Feb 2018 09:42

Supratik wrote:UK shelters all types of crooks. So Mallya made a good choice. Nirav Modi is likely to move to a place where he cannot be or will not be extradited. Ultimately it is upto the coercive diplomatic ability of India and the ability of Indian agencies to provide evidence. There are many inefficient and corrupt people in the agencies as well.


This is a long standing agenda of the brits, to keep poking the Indians in the eye, under the guise of the wonderful freedom that apparently prevails in britshitland as opposed to dirt poor third world India, with its uncomfortable prisons and a country from whom they stole the past to make their present.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby chetak » 18 Feb 2018 09:58

And, they are off, just like we suspected.

The modus operandi was too juicy not to be duplicated and used elsewhere.

It looks like a very neat, very specific tailor made and targeted loophole. Too slick and easy for it not to have widespread knowledge and implications.

The smoking gun is the fact that "auditors", statutory, regulatory, internal as well as the RBI which is the regulator, all have, jointly and severally, "missed" the huge elephant in the room. Its impossible to believe that not one single, solitary "auditor" has ever not picked up on this massive loophole.

The only logical explanation is omerta. Various people have been paid off just to look the other way.

The current MoFin is suspiciously and very conveniently quiet on the entire affair.

This has to be in the knowledge of the MoF baboo(n)s, RBI baboo(n)s, and generally all the venal species of baboo(n)s infesting the financial PSU space.

Brace yourselves, this looks like its going to get a whole lot worse before it gets any better.



After PNB, Chennai's City Union Bank Hit by Fraud Using the Same Method


After PNB, Chennai's City Union Bank Hit by Fraud Using the Same Method

Just like the fraud at Punjab National Bank (PNB), no entries of remittances were made in the ledgers of City Union Bank and transfers were pushed through the SWIFT financial platform.

February 17, 2018,

After PNB, Chennai's City Union Bank Hit by Fraud Using the Same Method

New Delhi: Days after the Rs 11,400 crore fraud at PNB shook the country, private sector City Union Bank on Saturday said it suffered three fraudulent remittances of nearly USD 2 million (about Rs 12.8 crore).

Just like the fraud at Punjab National Bank (PNB), no entries of remittances were made in the ledgers of City Union Bank and transfers were pushed through the SWIFT financial platform.

"During our reconciliation process on February 7, it was found out that 3 fraudulent remittances had gone through our SWIFT system to our corespondent banks which were not initiated from our bank's end. We immediately alerted the correspondent banks to recall the funds," City Union Bank said in a regulatory filing on stock exchanges.

Of the 3 fraudulent remittance, one remittance was made through Standard Chartered Bank, New York, to a Dubai based bank for USD 5,00,000 which was blocked immediately and was returned to City Union Bank, it said.

Chennai-based City Union Bank said the transfers had been made through correspondent banks even though it had not requested the transfers.

A second transfer of 300,000 euros (USD 372,150) was routed through a Standard Chartered Bank account in Frankfurt to a Turkish account, while a third totalling USD 1 million was sent through a Bank of America account in New York to a China-based bank.

The bank said it was working with the Ministry of External Affairs and officials in Turkey and China to repatriate the funds.

"With the help of Ministry of External Affairs through Consulate General of Shanghai and Istanbul and office of the National Cyber Security Council (PMO) all possible efforts through diplomatic and legal channels are being taken to repatriate the money," it said.

The recent episode raises question mark on the efficiency of the SWIFT network as how secure it is.

The PNB fraud pertains to issuance of fake Letters of Understanding (LoUs) to companies associated with billionaire jeweller Nirav Modi by errant PNB employees which enabled these companies to raise buyers credit from international branches of other Indian lenders.

Last week, PNB had lodged an FIR with CBI stating that fraudulent LoUs worth Rs 280.7 crore were first issued on January 16. At the time, PNB had said it was digging into records to examine the magnitude of the fraud.

In the complaint, PNB had named three diamond firms -- Diamonds R Us, Solar Exports and Stellar Diamonds -- saying they had approached it on January 16 with a request for buyers credit for making payment to overseas suppliers.

The bank sought 100 per cent cash margins for issuing LoUs for raising buyers credit, which was contested by the firms saying they had availed of the facility from as early as 2010.

Nirav Modi, his wife Ami, brother Nishal and uncle Mehul Choksi are partners in Diamonds R US, Solar Exports and Stellar Diamonds, which have shops in foreign locations such as Hong Kong, Dubai, and New York.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby disha » 18 Feb 2018 10:01

One cannot have a one size fit all for banking. There should be few very large public sector banks, some cooperative banks and some private banks as well.

What is necessary is transparency and control. In the PNB bank, NiMo was just a figure head. He might have made out maybe few hundred crores. The bank employees themselves started the loot from inside and indulged in systemic loot. The problem is systemic, when the termites are eating away from within - how can one evolve transparent controls to identify them early? They will be bypassed again at a different level. What is the deterrence to such crimes? Crimes will happen. Or the bank employees so naive that they were con'ed into issuing LOUs

In the end, systems should evolve catching such transgressions early. Why did nobody raise the question on the LOUs itself, like a table of LOUs issued on behalf of each exporter and the approver for such LOU if it crosses say 1 crore average daily? Basically some data mining. This does not require auditors.

How about a periodic report on SWIFT controls? Why not transfer your staff which has SWIFT controls to different branches? This will disrupt liaisons. This again does not require auditors.

At the end of the day, the management of PNB failed and they should be made responsible. At the very least, PNB should be absorbed by other PSUs bank - both its assets and liabilities should be put up for sale.

Of course the perpetrators should be brought to book and the state should show justice is being done. The very fact that some of them are confined, losing their independence and a severe curtailment on their lifestyle itself and sometimes always on run is a major deterrent.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby chetak » 18 Feb 2018 10:26

Suraj wrote:I'm not in favour of privatizing all the PSBs. There's strategic value in a few large PSBs with $1 trillion+ asset bases each . The charter of interaction between RBI, auditors and the banks needs to be more rigorous though. That simply isn't the case now.

Err, what makes you think private banks are not bailed out with public money ? When a too big to fail bank is teetering, public money comes to the rescue, everywhere, even in US. The 2007-08 crisis is characterized less by who went under than who were bailed out and not allowed to go under.


Banks have a sacred covenant with their customers. They are trusted with the savings and hard earned monies of the people who are by law, forced to use the bank to deposit their funds.

Willful and malicious breach of the rights of depositors and endangering the safety of customers should come with an automatic life sentence, applicable to the entire life of those involved, without the benefit of parole and not just a mere 14 years and that too via a fast track court.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Philip » 18 Feb 2018 10:39

When the bank's enforcers are so diligent in threatening poor housing loan clients on delayed EMIs, it is impossible that without conniving bank officials protected by politicos at the highest levels that a grand crook like Modi could get away time and time again with such impunity and not be detected! How could this man also needle his way into a group of Indian corporate chiefs and get his pic taken at Davos with the PM? He was " simply there"? We all know how intensive security for leaders is. Try crossing a barricade when a neta drives past.The entire Indian political and bureaucratic establishment is rotten to the core.Parties simply exchange their seats by rotation at elections for their turn to loot and scoot.We are in a cursed era of existence. So much for all the talk about great wise and just King's in the past.It's just talk to fool the people.

The insult to injury is that PNB was awarded the top prize for vigilance for 2016-2017!I wonder what prize will be awarded to them in 2018!

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby chetak » 18 Feb 2018 10:45

prasannasimha wrote:Actually private banks all over the world have caused bigger problems and had to be bailed out by government money when too big to fail or for investor concerns. Thinking everything will be sorted put by privatization is nonsense. Just see the Oh so good service at private banks. Masters at ripping people off. Many of these banks have repeatedly been rapped by RBI and the government for fraudulent practices.


just look at the shady doings of the HSBC, world wide. :)

and the fines that they continue to pay, year after year after year.

Among the biggest shady players in India during the demon issue were some of the more prominent private banks.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Bart S » 18 Feb 2018 16:32

Assocham makes some very good points.

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Indust ... 789116.ece
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/mo ... 789329.ece

PNB fraud: Assocham calls for privatising PSBs

The fraudulent transactions of Rs 11,400 crore detected at Punjab National Bank should act as a strong trigger for the government to reduce its stake to less than 50 per cent in public sector banks (PSBs), industry body Assocham said today.

It argued that PSBs should then be allowed to function on the lines of private sector lenders with a full sense of accountability to their shareholders, protecting the interest of depositors.


It claimed that top banking positions are treated as extension of a government job and the senior most managements spend bulk of their quality time, receiving and implementing directions from the bureaucrats even for innocuous issues.

[This looks like the MOD - OFB rubbish all over again.]

“In the process, the core banking functions, including all important risk mitigation and management, take a back seat,” it said.

Once the government equity in the banks is reduced below 50 per cent, there would be much more autonomy along with accountability and responsibility of the senior management,” it added.

The boards should then be truly taking the policy decisions while the CEOs would run the banks with full authority, coupled with the commensurate responsibility, instead of looking towards the bureaucrats for directions.


It observed that the problem has become more grave with the banking sector adapting to new technologies which can prove both boon and bane, depending on how effectively they are implemented.
Last edited by Bart S on 18 Feb 2018 16:47, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Bart S » 18 Feb 2018 16:36

chetak wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:Actually private banks all over the world have caused bigger problems and had to be bailed out by government money when too big to fail or for investor concerns. Thinking everything will be sorted put by privatization is nonsense. Just see the Oh so good service at private banks. Masters at ripping people off. Many of these banks have repeatedly been rapped by RBI and the government for fraudulent practices.


just look at the shady doings of the HSBC, world wide. :)

and the fines that they continue to pay, year after year after year.

Among the biggest shady players in India during the demon issue were some of the more prominent private banks.


Difference is that a private bank will sink or swim on it's own whereas PSB banks with their parasitic unions will be kept afloat with taxpayers covering the cost of their incompetence.

If 'too big to fail is an issue' then privatize them as many small banks instead. If they continue being incompetent let a couple crash and burn. The rest will quickly get the message.

Also, the HSBC fraud I think was allowing some money transfers to shady entities in order to bolster profits/bonuses, whereas the PSU bank scam is just simple robbing of the bank's money (and hence, in effect the taxpayer and the government). Both frauds, but with different effects altogether.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Feb 2018 17:03

The point is that privatization is no panacea. In the US the financial industry has captured the regulatory oversight, and is able to get public money to cover their mistakes. We need something like "anyone who has stolen more than X from a financial institution will have a swift trial, in absentia if they don't surrender themselves, with a death penalty to be carried out by the secret services if they are convicted in absentia, and a bounty on them dead or alive. Only if they surrender themselves will normal jurisprudence apply." And prisons for white collar crime have to be the same as for other crimes, and sentences proportional to the amount stolen.


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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby VinodTK » 18 Feb 2018 21:18



People involved in such activities, that is borrowers, influance peddlers, and the bank officials who over see such shady transactions should be declared as economic terrorists and all such cases should be handled by speial anti terror courts. No trial should be allowed to go more then 90 days, and all cases should have a binary outcome innocent or deaths by hanging (plus all property confiscated).

As for the free birds in UK and USA do what Mossad does with terrorists

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Vivek K » 18 Feb 2018 22:03

^^^^^^^Wow! One error and we lynch all and sundry? Kill all the business sentiment as you go about it.

There was an instrument that was misused. Instead of screaming and ranting, need to FIRST eliminate the loophole discovered.

Boss - if India is to survive (and it will way beyond this hiccup), INDUSTRY and COMMERCE must be facilitated. And industrialists will need to be tolerated and perhaps bridled to the extent it does not damage commerce. Rogue businessmen like Trump are respected elsewhere. And they've done far worse than all the Mallyas combined.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Feb 2018 22:11

INDUSTRY and COMMERCE of the East India Company kind? No thank you!
Stealing over 100 crores is not "one error".
Trump and Mallya and all the bank crooks are parasitical on capitalism, not contributors. As such, they deserve the fate of the tapeworm.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby VinodTK » 18 Feb 2018 22:43

Vivek K wrote:^^^^^^^Wow! One error and we lynch all and sundry? Kill all the business sentiment as you go about it.

There was an instrument that was misused. Instead of screaming and ranting, need to FIRST eliminate the loophole discovered.

Boss - if India is to survive (and it will way beyond this hiccup), INDUSTRY and COMMERCE must be facilitated. And industrialists will need to be tolerated and perhaps bridled to the extent it does not damage commerce. Rogue businessmen like Trump are respected elsewhere. And they've done far worse than all the Mallyas combined.


It is not an error it is a crime against humanity (meaning poor Indian people)
No one is talking about lynching people; speedy trial is not lynching
If stealing of billions of dolers is an "instrument that was misused"; In a country where average person earns about $3 to $4 K per year

Then I am wrong and you are right

Vivek K
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Vivek K » 18 Feb 2018 23:19

Poor Indian people? Really - every politician is sitting on piles of tens of thousands of crores. Industries like Kingfisher and other, provide employment and taxes to thousands. And the "poor Indian people" look at caste and religion and elect people like Kejriwal. With such large foreign reserves, Indians need to stop this "poor Indian" sob story and act their "bank balance".

Mallya's Kingfisher should have been helped - India lacks a rational airport landing fee structure. The US did not throw its airlines in jail when they went bankrupt. Look where their airlines are now - and where is Kingfisher??

Farmers need to adopt the latest farming techniques. Instead of free rice, GOI needs to give free technical assistance and other help to make the Indian farmer tech savvy. There is a lot of money to be made in farming instead of committing suicides.

Vivek K
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Vivek K » 18 Feb 2018 23:23

I was told this by a farmer in Haryana in the late 90s - instead of free power, he wanted power of the correct voltage. Every year he said that his motor (for the irrigation system) went out at least once because of low voltage. It cost him (in the 90s) 6-7 thousand to fix the motor - more than paying for power @ Rs 2.50 per unit.

Free power doesn't help the farmer and since industries end up paying for the politicians' generosity, it hurts industry with a BROAD brush. So India needs to use its money wisely - not throw it away because spoilt, corrupt armed forces want shiny new imported toys (in place of perfectly good, less shiny indian systems).

disha
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby disha » 18 Feb 2018 23:24

VinodTK wrote:As for the free birds in UK and USA do what Mossad does with terrorists


^Idiotic. What happens to entrepreneurs who try but fail? Do they need to be hunted down like criminals?

Mallya etc are just the tip, the rot is due to the statist, communist policies that ensure insidious corruption throughout.

ragupta
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby ragupta » 18 Feb 2018 23:50

disha wrote:
VinodTK wrote:As for the free birds in UK and USA do what Mossad does with terrorists


^Idiotic. What happens to entrepreneurs who try but fail? Do they need to be hunted down like criminals?

Mallya etc are just the tip, the rot is due to the statist, communist policies that ensure insidious corruption throughout.


Those who run away to UK or USA are not normal failed business, these are scamster and fraudster. If one fails due to bad business practice then what is the need to run away from the country. How are they surviving in higher cost living country, if they had failed business. So all the loses are to be borned by Public fund and they are suppose not to pay any things from their pocket. All profit to Scamster and loss to Public, is that what the strategy should be.

Dipanker
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Dipanker » 18 Feb 2018 23:57

A_Gupta wrote:The point is that privatization is no panacea. In the US the financial industry has captured the regulatory oversight, and is able to get public money to cover their mistakes. We need something like "anyone who has stolen more than X from a financial institution will have a swift trial, in absentia if they don't surrender themselves, with a death penalty to be carried out by the secret services if they are convicted in absentia, and a bounty on them dead or alive. Only if they surrender themselves will normal jurisprudence apply." And prisons for white collar crime have to be the same as for other crimes, and sentences proportional to the amount stolen.


+1000

disha
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby disha » 19 Feb 2018 01:03

ragupta wrote:Those who run away to UK or USA are not normal failed business, these are scamster and fraudster. If one fails due to bad business practice then what is the need to run away from the country. How are they surviving in higher cost living country, if they had failed business. So all the loses are to be borned by Public fund and they are suppose not to pay any things from their pocket. All profit to Scamster and loss to Public, is that what the strategy should be.


And who is going to draw the line between scamsters and failed businesses and if the failed business is due to "bad business practice" or just changed business environment?

Even in the case of PNB, the bank employees and their network were very much into the scam. And hence the focus on one person is what the scamsters want, that is the tail end which actually enabled the scam can escape scrutiny.

Mallya type scandal is compared to holocaust with words such as "crimes against humanity". That is idiotic. Supporting such a line is stupid. Of course people who want to escape scrutiny will support such a line.

---

People compare this with "loans to farmers and farmer suicide". That is again a political rhetoric, since farm loan waivers is a scam which affects the public. And it does not help the "poor farmer", since the poor farmer is made to take the loan to fund shoddy fertilizers and spurious pesticides and further is not even given an input on what is required and what is not. It is further a scam to ask for loan waiver showing a "poor farmer".

Dipanker
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Dipanker » 19 Feb 2018 01:18

So much convoluted logic is being peddled in defence of scamsters and fraudsters, some people simply do not have any shame.


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