Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 64520
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Singha » 17 Jan 2019 12:50

chetak wrote:
Supratik wrote:Infosys to set-up next-gen IT filing system for processing IT returns in one day.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/te ... 559282.cms


and this is the same lot which messed up on the GST software??


would you rather have a 100% gora outfit do it?
looking at the past history in GOTUS/UK govt IT contracts such mishaps and "issues" are common worldwide.

UK NHS
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ystem-10bn
obamacare
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... c38cf9ba07

nandakumar
BRFite
Posts: 846
Joined: 10 May 2010 13:37

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby nandakumar » 17 Jan 2019 15:09

Singha wrote:
chetak wrote:
and this is the same lot which messed up on the GST software??


would you rather have a 100% gora outfit do it?
looking at the past history in GOTUS/UK govt IT contracts such mishaps and "issues" are common worldwide.

UK NHS
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ystem-10bn
obamacare
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... c38cf9ba07

Add to this the fact that user departments do not want automation as it reduces the scope for 'mamool' the Infosys ' are set to fall till all bugs and wrinkles are eventually resolved. The GST is a classic example.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 18165
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby chetak » 17 Jan 2019 15:29

Vikas wrote:
chetak wrote:
and this is the same lot which messed up on the GST software??


They are still one of the best IT shops in the country alongside TCS,WIPRO and HCLT. Anyways like everyone else, they too will learn implementation of projects of gigantic size with least disruptions.


they already know how to implement large projects. There is absolutely nothing for them to learn here because they have already done a number of them successfully.

that's why the GST mess up was so very uncharacteristic and also very suspicious.

a number of their founding partners are aapis so it is not beyond the realm of possibility for them to slyly embarrass the sitting government.

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 1093
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby yensoy » 17 Jan 2019 20:04

^^^^ I don't buy the conspiracy theory. Execs could be whatever party they want to be but they aren't going to write a single line of code. They also aren't even writing the design or specs.

It was a complex task. If you read foreign newspapers, they pretty much said it was so complex that it would fail. It didn't. It needed tweaking, which it got and continues to get. That's the way things work. Infosys delivered; TCS/Wipro would have delivered too had they been given the project. The US majors would have delivered as well, only after outsourcing the guts of the project to Infosys, TCS, Wipro, and skimming their 50% cut. But we would have lovely brochures and positive news stories.

souravB
BRFite
Posts: 386
Joined: 07 Jun 2018 13:52

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby souravB » 17 Jan 2019 23:08

Indian Tier-1 IT companies beside TATA and Wipro who has other prominent businesses do not wanted to take on gov projects until recently as a rule of thumb. reasons are irregular payment, obscure requirements and bureaucracy. Companies like Cognizant, TechMahindra, Infy could revolutionize our basic infra like traffic management, postal service, electricity grid, telecom etc given proper opportunity. It is the same thing they are doing outside the country.
There are successful projects that has already been executed by like the Passport process
Private outsourcing companies can't magically mask the deficiencies in top level project planning, lack of vision and penny pinching in critical areas.

nam
BRFite
Posts: 1876
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby nam » 18 Jan 2019 02:39

chetak wrote:that's why the GST mess up was so very uncharacteristic and also very suspicious.

a number of their founding partners are aapis so it is not beyond the realm of possibility for them to slyly embarrass the sitting government.


It probably has to do with being first in class system. System was build according to requirements given by babus. Once done, who will sign off saying the system is working? There was none in the country, because no one knew how the whole GST circus will work, as it was done for the first time.

Fundamentally a lack of testing. They fixed it as they got the feedback from real user. Given the hard deadline by GoI, there was no time for pilot runs.

In normal circumstances, such a system would have gone through a year(if not more) of real user testing. Compare it to the number of trails services perform when they need to induct a new system.

Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5830
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Vikas » 18 Jan 2019 23:18

Sorry, No company or Project team ever sabotages its own product or project. That is not how s/w companies work. Bottom line is that bottom line matters for all C-level exec.
Any project of the size of GST if doesn't has few failing pieces would sound suspicious to me.

Even if the project was given to IBM or Accentures of the world, It still would be the same IT pool executing the project.
GST project becomes a impressive reference point on Infy's brochure.



Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7069
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Prasad » 23 Jan 2019 13:49

Revitalising SEZs - commerce ministry WG headed by Baba Kalyani-
http://sezindia.nic.in/upload/latestnew ... rcular.pdf giant pdf. and typical of govt functioning, its a scanned pdf and not text :roll:

manju
BRFite
Posts: 651
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: CA, USA

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby manju » 23 Jan 2019 14:07

prasannasimha wrote:Manju, you are making posts promoting intracountry hate. I have deleted it. Repeat it again and it will result in a ban.


This must be a mistake. What I wrote must have NOT been worded properly by me. Apologies if it came across as such.

That post was a request asking for members here to share a video by Gurumurthy in which rubbishes the lies that somehow the norther states are benefiting at the cost of Southern states. He explains that resources have been allocated equitably. etc...

I TRIED googling for the very educations video .. but cant find it anymore..

manju
BRFite
Posts: 651
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: CA, USA

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby manju » 23 Jan 2019 14:08

Which are the desi online stores (like amazon etc).. when I buy online in India would like to give business to Indian companies..

Is flip kart Indian owned?

Any suggestion will be appreciated

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4394
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby putnanja » 23 Jan 2019 15:11

manju wrote:Which are the desi online stores (like amazon etc).. when I buy online in India would like to give business to Indian companies..

Is flip kart Indian owned?

Any suggestion will be appreciated


Amazon & Flipkart are market places in Indian context. They can allow only 3rd party merchants to sell on their platform. CloudTail, which is a seller on Amazon has Amazon as one of its larger shareholders. Similarly, Flipkart has its own retail arm.

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Mollick.R » 23 Jan 2019 15:21

RBI worried about NPCI's monopoly in payments space, wants to minimise concentration risk

RBI wants to encourage competition and innovation in the fast-growing sector and is seeking to invite more players into the industry by relaxing entry and other regulations
The Reserve Bank of India (RBI) is worried that the National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI), which processes nearly half of all the digital payments across the country, may become a monopoly and be a too-big-to-fail entity in India's retail payments sector. The central bank published a consultation paper on January 21 where it discussed the pros and cons of a single operator for all retail payment systems including National Financial Switch (NFS), Immediate Payment Service (IMPS) and Unified Payments Interface (UPI), among others.

The regulator wants to encourage competition and innovation in the fast-growing sector and is seeking to invite more players to the industry by relaxing entry and other regulations.The Reserve Bank had announced that it would encourage more players to participate in and promote pan-India payment platforms. The objective is to minimise the concentration risk in the retail payments market, from a financial stability perspective and to give a fillip to innovation and competition," the note said. "NPCI has become an organisation which is pivotal to operations of many of the critical retail payment systems of the country with concentration of many tasks. In October 2018, NPCI processed nearly 48 percent of the retail electronic payment transactions in volume terms, aggregating to 15 percent of the value of retail electronic payment transactions," it added.

There were 89 authorised non-bank payment system operators across money transfer, ATM networks, cards, wallets, etc. at the end of December 2018. Dominant in the cards space were Visa and Mastercard, while non-bank entities such as MobiKwik and PhonePe ruled in the wallets and funds transfer segment.

NPCI, a 'not for profit' company, was set-up in December 2008 as an umbrella organisation for retail payment systems in India under the guidance of RBI and the Indian Banks' Association (IBA). With initial shareholding of 10 promoter banks, the ownership has since been diversified to 56 banks.

While a single player in any sector ensures uniformity in operations, it also crushes innovation and upgradation. The central bank has invited comments on the same till February 20.


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/rbi-worried-about-npcis-monopoly-in-payments-space-wants-to-minimise-concentration-risk-3422821.html

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Mollick.R » 23 Jan 2019 15:38

Unable to understand RBI's logic. On one hand everywhere in financial sector we are talking about china model and economics of scale e.g merger of Banks, General Insurance companies etc to take on giant MNCs, on the other hand we are talking about such "Monopoly" :| :|

I guess Visa/MC is lobbying hard to suppress this gem (NPCIL) in making.


Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 1294
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Thakur_B » 23 Jan 2019 18:32



Not happening. The promoters were trying to buy ESSAR at discounted prices via proxy. Can't do that aynmore. Then the bidding happened, and after bidder was shortlisted, they offered to pay up in full They don't have the money, nor resources to do so.

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 1294
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Thakur_B » 23 Jan 2019 18:33

manju wrote:Which are the desi online stores (like amazon etc).. when I buy online in India would like to give business to Indian companies..

Is flip kart Indian owned?

Any suggestion will be appreciated


Wait for mota bhai. He is coming soon.

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5879
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Supratik » 23 Jan 2019 19:29

Flipkart is now owned by Walmart. Motabhai will enter space soon. This payments monopoly thing is most likely pressure from Visa/Mastercard to relax norms as they are loosing business. I don't think there is a bar to other players unless they are talking about the backbone infra. The market share of NPCI is not matching value likely because they charge much less. While I am all for level playing field need to see the fine print of what the RBI is talking about. It is not clear to me from that article.

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7069
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Prasad » 23 Jan 2019 20:25

After crying to senate committees 'see big bad yindia is making us comply onlee' they're now ok with data localisation.

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5879
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Supratik » 23 Jan 2019 21:01

RuPay moving to Bhutan - maybe other SAsian nations.

https://swarajyamag.com/economy/india-m ... -economies

Ambani plan for e-commerce.

https://swarajyamag.com/economy/ambani- ... -godzillas

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12084
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Suraj » 23 Jan 2019 23:41

Thakur_B wrote:

Not happening. The promoters were trying to buy ESSAR at discounted prices via proxy. Can't do that aynmore. Then the bidding happened, and after bidder was shortlisted, they offered to pay up in full They don't have the money, nor resources to do so.

In addition they cannot exit IBC process by 'offering to pay'. The main thing to know about IBC is that the debtor is not in control and the creditor is. The process is exit when the creditor determines it and not the debtor.

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Mollick.R » 24 Jan 2019 00:23

This article below mentions some solid criticism of recent happenings on IBC Front.

State Bank should know that any investor group buying out the bank’s loans will do so because it will automatically replace the Indian lender to become the strongest voice on Essar’s all-important creditors’ committee. If this debt holder then backs the Ruias’ last-ditch offer to outwit ArcelorMittal and pay lenders about 544 billion rupees — with no clear explanation for where the cash-strapped group is raising the funds — then it’s game over


Other creditors could go along, especially Standard Chartered Plc, which would get next to nothing out of ArcelorMittal’s proposal anyway. Who knows, by the time the messy situation gets to the Supreme Court for one final, decisive battle for control, the Ruias’ lawyers might just argue that there’s no insolvency to resolve here. After all, the two creditors who moved to have the steelmaker
declared bankrupt — State Bank and StanChart — are either no longer in the picture or lukewarm to a new owner. Poor, rich Lakshmi Mittal. He would be left red-faced for thinking that buying assets out of bankruptcy would be his ticket to building a steel empire in his home country.



[url]India’s Bankruptcy Code Had Teeth. Now It’s Got Dentures.https://www.bloombergquint.com/opinion/ ... -steel/url]

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Mollick.R » 24 Jan 2019 00:28

Last edited by Mollick.R on 24 Jan 2019 02:04, edited 3 times in total.

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Mollick.R » 24 Jan 2019 00:31

Last edited by Mollick.R on 24 Jan 2019 02:02, edited 1 time in total.

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Mollick.R » 24 Jan 2019 00:33

Last edited by Mollick.R on 24 Jan 2019 02:01, edited 1 time in total.

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Mollick.R » 24 Jan 2019 00:34


Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12084
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Suraj » 24 Jan 2019 01:43

Mukherjee is placing fault with the IBC for the creditors' behavior. That's not a reasonable argument. If the creditor chooses not to buy in on the plan, it's not clear how IBC is at fault. Should the insolvency professional require a cooling off period after all creditors agree, beyond which a creditor cannot change their mind on the agreement ? That's one option, but it's not a perfect one either.

Mollick.R: please stop breaking formatting in every post while quoting.

Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 196
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Mollick.R » 24 Jan 2019 02:00

Suraj wrote:Mukherjee is placing fault with the IBC for the creditors' behavior. That's not a reasonable argument. If the creditor chooses not to buy in on the plan, it's not clear how IBC is at fault. Should the insolvency professional require a cooling off period after all creditors agree, beyond which a creditor cannot change their mind on the agreement ? That's one option, but it's not a perfect one either.

Mollick.R: please stop breaking formatting in every post while quoting.


Sorry sir for the formatting issue.
Posting from Mobile.
Unable copy from links properly & use them correctly

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12084
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Suraj » 24 Jan 2019 02:51

It's fine. Just write [ url = insert_your_link ] the title [ / url ] . Remove all the spaces and you get the nicely formatted URL.

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3764
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby sanjaykumar » 24 Jan 2019 05:07

.

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 1294
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Thakur_B » 24 Jan 2019 10:25



This is bullshit of the highest order. Take a loan, don't pay, wait for IBC process, buyback your collateral at a discount, profit.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12084
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Suraj » 24 Jan 2019 11:00

Thakur_B wrote:

This is bullshit of the highest order. Take a loan, don't pay, wait for IBC process, buyback your collateral at a discount, profit.

It's not bullshit. An entity cannot participate as a bidder without clearing their own dues. That means you cannot owe money and bid without paying back. That's why ArcelorMittal are so upset - they paid back their dues on other businesses to have the privilege of bidding for Essar, and after being the winning bid, their offer is now at risk. The Ruias owe money on Essar, and cannot bid on a residual share without certified payment of their dues back on terms the creditors agree to.

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 1294
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Thakur_B » 24 Jan 2019 14:04

Suraj ji, I digress. This is a massive dilution of IBC. Ruias were trying to buyback essar steel through Numetal, a sister firm. Banks were taking a haircut on the loan. Sister firms / firms with promoters links should not be allowed to buy the distressed assets for cheap. They should not be allowed to bid, until and unless at a premium over the next highest bidder.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12084
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Suraj » 24 Jan 2019 22:59

There are arguments both ways about the validity of permitting promoters to buy back a stake . It can be argued that this is nothing more than a refinance . Either way the creditor is still in control of the process , and not the debtor . If the creditor chooses to hand back the entity to the same debtor after prior dues (net any haircut), how is that a dilution of the law ? Both parties are ultimately making a free market decision . Any creditor with sense would refuse any sort of haircut where the best option buyer is the prior promoter . But if the creditor lacks sense you can not fault the law for it.

Even Andy Mukherjee doesn’t blame the structure of the law but the behavior of a creditor - in this case the SBI. Creditors who don't even recognize their negotiating strength and accept a haircut and then proceed to offer another loan to the defaulting party are being dumb . One can't craft any law to entirely eliminate stupid decisionmaking . The law assumes parties behave in their best self interest.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 64520
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Singha » 24 Jan 2019 23:18

in other news CBI has filed a case on venugopal dhoot (videocon promoter), chanda kocchar and her hubby.
charge is he took 20,000cr loans from a group of banks and then round tripped part of that into a kickback JV with the hubby, with the knowledge and blessings of kocchar madam.

time will tell how much mud will stick.

https://www.news18.com/news/india/cbi-r ... _top_pos_8

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 6732
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby disha » 25 Jan 2019 02:40

Suraj wrote:Both parties are ultimately making a free market decision . Any creditor with sense would refuse any sort of haircut where the best option buyer is the prior promoter . But if the creditor lacks sense you can not fault the law for it.


Market conditions change and there could be several reasons for the creditor's to take a haircut and still have the debtor back in charge. One can call it new terms for financing.

Reasons could be strategic or even that there are very few operators experienced with complex industries. For example, oil refining. It is a very complex industry and at the same time very volatile. And very few operators and is also strategic. In this iron/steel, maybe the strategic goal is not to to create monopolies.

Just offering a differing POV on why the creditor might take a haircut and still continue with the debtor.

BTW, steel is as strategic as oil.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12084
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Suraj » 25 Jan 2019 04:20

Yes I agree and in general there's no need to be punitive in not permitting a prior promoter to bid on assets that were on the block and they did satisfy the requirements of clearing their prior dues by any means they arranged. Morality in the form of 'they have failed once and should not be allowed again' . It is still the creditors who make the decision and not the debtors, and the the promoters party in this case is not in charge of the decisionmaking either way.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 64520
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Singha » 25 Jan 2019 10:27

day long raids were on in videocon group cos HQ @ nariman point yesterday by a CBI team from delhi.

kocchar madam is a padma shri no less . but its been devalued with UPA granting them to media cats paws.

Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5830
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Nov 27 2017

Postby Vikas » 25 Jan 2019 10:55

Chanda madam was once blue eyed boy (or maybe Girl) of media and one of the shining stars of Banking Industry. In one shot, the whole legacy lies in tatters and possibly, a Jail term staring at her.
Meanwhile Dhoot family has been playing the system for decades now.


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests