AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

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Vayutuvan
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by Vayutuvan »

We should feed Siachen thread archives into ChatGPT.
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by NRao »

The original paper that influenced GPT: Attention Is All You Need PDF, 15 pages.

Andrej Karpathy, 5 days ago, in a YT video:
We build a Generatively Pretrained Transformer (GPT), following the paper "Attention is All You Need" and OpenAI's GPT-2 / GPT-3. We talk about connections to ChatGPT, which has taken the world by storm. We watch GitHub Copilot, itself a GPT, help us write a GPT (meta :D!) . I recommend people watch the earlier makemore videos to get comfortable with the autoregressive language modeling framework and basics of tensors and PyTorch nn, which we take for granted in this video.
2 hours long.

From the transcript:
it completes the sequence with the outcome and so it's a language model in that sense now I would like to focus on the under
the hood of um under the hood components of what makes chat GPT work so what is the
neural network under the hood that models the sequence of these words and that comes from this paper called
attention is all you need in 2017 a landmark paper
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by ArjunPandit »

Vayutuvan wrote:We should feed Siachen thread archives into ChatGPT.
why just siachen, why not entire BRF???
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by ArjunPandit »

i stopped visiting this thread which i started for some time only came here to see whats going on and check for a conversation on the impact of ChatGPT on Indian economy.
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by ArjunPandit »

A short sighted and potentially unintended consequence of chatgpt could be that data will be more held privately. More countries will be asking asking to localize the data and companies will have to pay to the nation states. China India have taken such actions in past. There will be rise of local companies. China already has a head start in this. Days of free access to social media for all are few. Others could follow the suit.

Another of course will be reduction in knowledge economy jobs: This includes
1. IT and college educated jobs.
2. Basic uni jobs will be going away.
3. Youtube will be the uni and perhaps you will have to pay for it, given the traffic/volume or it would shift to tiered viewership models where first few minutes are free and then paid
on a lighter note pinchar jobs will still require humans for some time
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by titash »

ArjunPandit wrote:A short sighted and potentially unintended consequence of chatgpt could be that data will be more held privately. More countries will be asking asking to localize the data and companies will have to pay to the nation states. China India have taken such actions in past. There will be rise of local companies. China already has a head start in this. Days of free access to social media for all are few. Others could follow the suit.

Another of course will be reduction in knowledge economy jobs: This includes
1. IT and college educated jobs.
2. Basic uni jobs will be going away.
3. Youtube will be the uni and perhaps you will have to pay for it, given the traffic/volume or it would shift to tiered viewership models where first few minutes are free and then paid
on a lighter note pinchar jobs will still require humans for some time
I'll go one step further.

1. "data will be more held privately" --> people will stop blogging when they realize that their intellectual property is being reused for profit by an AI-driven chatbot that will render them irrelevant. Information is power. If information is free, then information gatekeepers lose that power and credibility

2. "data will be more held privately" --> open source AI cannot mine what's not publicly available. Companies with proprietary manufacturing and materials processing and hardware data that hold their data close will not be impacted

3. In theory the "consulting" industry thrived because ordinary companies didn't have the "knowledge". Now with every Tom/Dick/Harry posting youTube videos on how the McKinsey-types hire people and do work, and throw in ChatGPT...I suspect the expectations from white collar workers who do day-to-day operations will be much higher (after all they are getting a virtual assistant). But the "consulting" world still hires the top brains and will effortlessly retain their pole positions as the CxOs will continually need them

4. Yes - you will have to pay for YouTube or watch many many more ads.

5. As globalization decreases and nations guard their data more and more, you will see significant duplication in jobs and companies doing the same thing but in different countries. Protectionism is good for the employee in general

6. The other barrier to AI is legislation. No one can trump the vote of the unemployed. Driverless cars in India anyone? :rotfl:
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by ArjunPandit »

very good points titash..i had posted the data will be held privately.in fact a lot of companies trained AI on data from India, Brazil ..and other populous nations..not so anymore
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by NRao »

titash wrote:..........

6. The other barrier to AI is legislation. No one can trump the vote of the unemployed. Driverless cars in India anyone? :rotfl:
AN economist, about 20 years ago, had suggested that the profits made on manufacturing based on AI should be used to provide minimum pay to the unemployed.

On education (through YT, etc), why even get educated? What purpose would it serve?
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Post by Cyrano »

When AI driven chat bots or "Hal"s become ubiquitous humans will eventually lose the ability to learn.

ASK > observe > infer > postulate > experiment > understand > KNOW learning loop when shotcut to "ASK BOT > KNOW" will lead over time, to loss of the need to learn, therefore eventually the ability to learn. This will happen not because our brains lose that ability but prevalent culture will rapidly junk the tools and processes of learning and shift to just teaching us to simply ask. End result will be intellectual atrophy of a large part of human kind.

Memorise to Remember will also become unnecessary when bots become ubiquitous.

Cerebral activity freed from learning, memorising and remembering will be left with nothing else except feelings.

If you have read Ian Banks' sci fi, he describes a very advanced spacefaring future civilization called "The Culture" which has achieved just that, and to cope with it, they develop a way to give themselves the ability to generate feelings on demand by making "glands" secrète the required harmones that influence mood. Quite prescient I'd say.

We may never get there, but there is a distinct possibility that we would simply go mad and destroy ourselves before the end of this century.
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Post by Cyrano »

I must add that the current global pandemic of teenage depression is a huge warning sign, IMO it's a consequence of reduced effort required to learn these days. When feelings take up the resulting vacuum in a still growing, still maturing brain and start dominating the mindspace which has no means or tools to deal with these feelings amidst their bodily transformation then extreme personality traits start expressing themselves more frequently, more forcefully, more violently.

In an AI driven world it will be the turn of adults to undergo a similar stress phase, who will have to face the additional burden of their progeny struggling even more.

Hence my prediction that we humans have a significant risk to go mad and destroy ourselves by the end of this century.
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by Vayutuvan »

ArjunPandit wrote:
Vayutuvan wrote:We should feed Siachen thread archives into ChatGPT.
why just siachen, why not entire BRF???

Oh well. Siachen had a lively debate between two folks - one batting for India and another batting to make it an international peace park or something like that! :mrgreen:
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by ArjunPandit »

ofc i remember that..i also remember the legendary tank wars with sanku maharaj joining as expert..was it at that time when exfart was coined..
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by S_Madhukar »

I am thinking will the need to feed behemoths like chatGPt make our language and thinking a bit too linear like Spock ? Because these are all Bayesian models and without contextual understanding they are likely to misinterpret nuances. I won’t complain if that replaces legalese for they are big middlemen but the need to feed AI might make us AI-like as well accelerating our downfall
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by vera_k »

Toolformer: Language Models Can Teach Themselves to Use Tools
What is Toolformer?
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by S_Madhukar »

If anything India should use these large language models throughout the bureaucracy and governments so that language translation is easily available and used to bring people together today. I was shocked recently when I saw YT could translate Hindi written in English quite well (though not as well as Proper Hindi and other languages to English)
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by vera_k »

Uh oh. Is the singularity near after all?

Open Letter: Pause giant AI experiments
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by Cyrano »

SC has been experimenting with machine translation of its judgements in English into several languages. CJI Chandrachud spoke about it at an India Today event recently. He roped in an Indian start up IIRC. Good move, can be scaled up and implemented across the country.
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by Vayutuvan »

Cyrano wrote:SC has been experimenting with machine translation of its judgements in English into several languages. CJI Chandrachud spoke about it at an India Today event recently. He roped in an Indian start up IIRC. Good move, can be scaled up and implemented across the country.
Why write any judgements in English in the first place? They can write in an Indian language and machine-translate into Angrezi.
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by vimal »

Vayutuvan wrote:
Cyrano wrote:SC has been experimenting with machine translation of its judgements in English into several languages. CJI Chandrachud spoke about it at an India Today event recently. He roped in an Indian start up IIRC. Good move, can be scaled up and implemented across the country.
Why write any judgements in English in the first place? They can write in an Indian language and machine-translate into Angrezi.
Milards are pukka angrez
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Post by sanman »

These things would require a lot of proofreading, because they still make a lot of mistakes, and can also "hallucinate".

I don't know why SC is boasting about this technology when they themselves are not technologists able to understand its limitations. I don't see judiciaries of other countries talking like this. They should stick to understanding principles of law, and keeping abreast of how other judiciaries around the world operate.

I do see that our exam-cheating Indians would enjoy this technology very much. There may be significant potential to use such technologies even to assist in carrying out fraud (eg. image modification / fabrication)

For language translation, some scientists are even finding ways to decode languages used by animals:



I wonder if there other species in our part of the world which might have sufficiently developed languages that could usefully be decoded in this way?
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Post by sanman »

Stanford University has come out with Alpaca 7B, which is a localized version of a large language model like ChatGPT, that can run off a PC. Its total cost of training was $600, compared to the $10M cost of training ChatGPT. The secret to this low cost was that Alpaca 7B was itself trained by ChatGPT (that $600 was spent on usage fees charged by ChatGPT for training Alpaca 7B).

Large Language Model AI --> LLAMA --> Alpaca, get the pun?

So now you too can set up your own local version of ChatGPT running off your PC (but you would need to train off ChatGPT, which would cost you ~ $600 in usage fees from ChatGPT/OpenAI)




Any way, the bigger picture here is that the really Large Language Models can be used to train smaller ones (like a mother training her young?)

This could lead to the creation of various more specialized language models, meant to serve smaller niches.
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Post by sanman »

The UK govt has invested $900M to come up with its own large-model AI dubbed BritGPT:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... wn-britgpt

Image

Should India likewise try to come up with its own HindGPT?
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Post by sanman »




ernest
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Post by ernest »

sanman wrote:
Any way, the bigger picture here is that the really Large Language Models can be used to train smaller ones (like a mother training her young?)

This could lead to the creation of various more specialized language models, meant to serve smaller niches.
This has been the norm, where there are "distilled"models accompanying larger models. Definitely something unique to Alpaca 7B.
When BERT came out kinda ushering in the age of LLMs, it was accompanied by DistilBERT that was smaller and could run in PCs. "Knowledge DIstillation"and "Student Teacher Curriculum Learning" are active areas and the norm in some ways.
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Post by sanman »

ernest wrote:This has been the norm, where there are "distilled"models accompanying larger models. Definitely something unique to Alpaca 7B.
When BERT came out kinda ushering in the age of LLMs, it was accompanied by DistilBERT that was smaller and could run in PCs. "Knowledge DIstillation"and "Student Teacher Curriculum Learning" are active areas and the norm in some ways.
I think last week's announcement of Alpaca 7B from Stanford is the reason why Elon Musk and his fellow Tech Gurus are speaking out about AI right now. Seeing that AI is now spreading out to the masses via these knowledge-transfer/distillation processes has made them fearful that a genie is now out of the bottle. Meh, I don't see how they can hope to curtail or regulate it. Govts will continue researching it, underground hackers and hobbyists will continue doing it. You can't constrain coding - that's absurd.

I do wonder about applications of this Transformer modeling which go beyond just language. As Jaishankar likes to repeat, "Data is the New Oil," and you're really only constrained by the kinds of data collections that you have available. What if you could take a large repository of genomic data and train on that? Could you then generatively produce DNA code to create your own custom biological organisms? I don't see why not - nucleotides are just letters, and genes are words. All you mainly need to do is label your genomic data by genotype and phenotype, and whatever else, in order to train on it. Imagine being able to supply only high-level descriptive information (aka. "prompt"), and then have the model spit out DNA code in response. You might be able to cure a lot of diseases that way.
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Post by Cyrano »

Aren't 2nd degree systems like Alpaca constrained to be subsets of the +s and -s of teachers like ChatGPT?

The custom DNA to new organism scenario may be many years away yet. The danger is like pointed above, getting AI systems access to large public and private datasets and mine them for all kinds of intelligence. For ex imagine UPI transactions data fed to an AI by someone who steals such data and can use those insights for all kinds of things.

Second danger is usage of powerful AI to generate media content. Fake news would be indistinguishable from real news. AI generated art, music, films can eclipse real world content. Predictive AI could do a darn good job in financial analysis, credit rating, company rating, sovereign ratings.

While AI performance could exceed human abilities, can it be really creative? Can it invent stuff that never existed before that would be pleasing and desirable? What if a whole bunch of unpleasant and undesirable stuff is quickly and cheaply generated by AI and pumped into society to saturation levels drowning out real, traditional stuff?
Worse, what if even moderately pleasing and desirable stuff is massively pumped into the society, what will the real creators do except go out of business?

I think these are the kinds of dangers Musk is talking about. To protect data from AI as needed, to create specific channels for AI content to avoid drowning out of real human generated content. Especially in real time news and opinions which if hijacked by mal intentioned, can cause unimaginable turmoil.

We don't have answers to these, and of course the legal frameworks and means to enforce them don't exist.

Musk is suggesting that the world should take a pause to work on that so that our societies are able to absorb the tech while adapting to manage the risks.

He is asking everyone to bell their own cat and cage it for a while.

I think he is not wrong at all, but it's utopic and TOO LATE. The genie is already out of the box.
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Post by Cyrano »

Let's take another scenario:
An AI system built to analyse geospatial data, weather data, topographic data etc to manage a water ways network made up of rivers, dams, canals, lakes etc in an area.
On a heavy rainy day it recommends to open the flood gates fully. It predicts that it's necessary else the dam will burst. First case lives lost, dam saved, second case dam lost, a lot more lives lost.

What is the role of the man in charge there? What will he be held accountable for? What If there is no man and AI decides and activities the sluice gates?

What can we hold AI accountable for? What the hell can you do to it if you conclude it made a mistake? Switch it off? Go after its developers? What if it completed learning the final steps under your tutelage like an apprentice?

Humans in any role, decide and act in a certain way because they can face the consequences PERSONALLY. That shapes behaviour, ethics, morality, dilemmas come into play. And therefore humans can be judged.

What consequences can you put on a program? What do with something that cannot be judged? How can it be TRUSTED ? EVER?

Some biryani for thought, eh ?? !
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Post by Cyrano »

Yet another one:
The world over is going through a pandemic of children and to a lesser extent adults hooked to social media and apps. Mental health and psychological development are seriously impacted. We don't hear much about it coz the wave is still rising, we haven't reached the crest yet. The impending mental and behavioral disorder tsunami is yet to hit, but I think in 3-5 years from now, it will.

Now imagine an AI driven TikTok far more powerful that can hook a child with custom individually tuned algorithm driven content so powerfully that the child can't be reasoned with, like brainwashed zombies in a doomsday cult. And then the app takes control and tells them what to do, remote controls them.

Are you sure it's not already happening? How can you tell? Where is the line between today's TikTok version and the doomsday TikTok version?

What if its done to you? Are you sure it's not already happening? What is YouTube serving you personalized content? Google serving personalised ads? Imagine a custom AI bot that's your digital twin. It can be trained using you, to predict what you will do, whom you will like, cheat, hire, fire, love, kill? At that point how open will you be to be manipulated overtly and subconsciously by your digital twin?

Why will someone bother with me you say? What if you are a head of state? Army general? CEO? Banker? ....

Are we ready for AI? It's already creeping upon us, from below - like water under the carpet.

Aren't you scared enough yet? Who do you think Cyrano really is? :P :wink: :rotfl:
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Post by S_Madhukar »

:P Isn't this the typical "pirated" version way of making products? Someone makes a movie/song in 4K HD with millions of $$ and we just copy/pirate/compress to MPEG on the cheap ? ... And govts will have to allow this to prevent monopolising ? Looks like someone coming up with MPEG standards (I know it is more involved then that with hyper-parameter tuning but soon there should be an empirical formula soon..)
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Post by sanman »

Here's a funny video clip going around the internet:



A mother has told her son to go to his bedroom and complete his homework. She later comes back around to peek in on him, and see that he's complying. What she discovers is her son using the (Amazon) "Alexa" appliance for help in completing the homework. The boy is whispering math questions to Alexa to have it give back the answers. Strangely enough, Alexa is also replying in a low whisper -- like some kind of co-conspirator :rotfl:
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Post by sanman »

Instead of endlessly re-watching Ramayana gifted by animation talents of Yugo Sako & Co, maybe some desis could use machine learning to generate animation with a more artistic look than sterile 3D:

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Post by Cyrano »

This is the kind of stuff I was talking about:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 198190.cms

Now run some good AI on the data of 70 crore Indians and many things can be done depending on what level of details were collected.
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Post by sanman »



I found some AI-based summarizer which summarizes Youtube videos - it allows 3 free summaries per week - so let's see how well it works:
------

TLDR: China is using lawfare tactics and military aggression to assert its territorial claims in Bhutan and Arunachal Pradesh, causing tension with India and highlighting the need for the US to shift its focus from India-Pakistan to India-China conflict in the Indo-Pacific region.

1. 00:00 China is using lawfare tactics against India over border disputes in Arunachal Pradesh and Bhutan.
1.1 Law fair is when one side uses legal systems to delegitimize an opponent or deter their usage of legal rights, which can be seen in border conflicts between nations.
1.2 China is using lawfare with India over Arunachal Pradesh and Bhutan, according to a young China domain specialist.

2. 02:41 China's actions in Bhutan and Arunachal Pradesh are causing tension with India, with their victory in the Doklam dispute being a setback for India and China claiming Arunachal Pradesh as their sovereign territory.
2.1 China's attempts to change the status quo in Bhutan and Arunachal Pradesh are causing tension with India, despite Bhutan's attempts at damage control after their prime minister's interview.
2.2 China's victory in the Doklam dispute is a setback for India as Bhutan's acknowledgement of China's involvement complicates the situation further.
2.3 China has announced the Chinese names of 11 places in Arunachal Pradesh, claiming it as South Tibet, their sovereign territory, and unleashing full-fledged law fare in the Eastern sector.

3. 05:31 China's attempts to dislodge Indian troops on the Eastern Front failed, leading to increased pressure on Bhutan through border talks and propaganda media, while also renaming 11 places in Arunachal Pradesh for the third time since 2017.
3.1 Chinese troops tried to dislodge Indian troops on the Eastern Front but were pushed back, leading to increased pressure on Bhutan through border talks, the Bhutanese prime minister's interview, and Chinese propaganda media.
3.2 China has renamed 11 places in Arunachal Pradesh for the third time since 2017, possibly influenced by scholars from the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

4. 07:31 The CNAs think tank paper highlights the need for the US to shift its focus from India-Pakistan to India-China conflict in the Indo-Pacific region.
4.1 A conservative strategic affairs think tank called CNAs has released an influential paper on South Asia and Indo-Pacific written by Lisa Curtis and Derek Grossman, both with extensive experience in the region.
4.2 Two senior defense analysts, one from CNAs and the other from Rand Corporation, with extensive experience in intelligence and security, discuss the current state of US-China relations and the potential for conflict in the Indo-Pacific region.
4.3 The US needs to shift its focus from India-Pakistan to India-China conflict as the friction between India and China has enlarged and covers the entire 2100 mile border, with India confident of US support if requested.

5. 11:18 The Biden administration pledges to support allies facing China's Gray Zone coercion, including India, by offering military technology and enhancing maritime and naval capacity.
5.1 The Biden administration vows to support allies and partners facing Gray Zone coercion from China's campaign to establish control over disputed territories.
5.2 The US signaled support for India in a potential border crisis with China and needs to take policy measures to prevent it while being prepared to help India if it arises.
5.3 Recommendations for the US regarding India include offering military technology, enhancing maritime and naval capacity, and setting up intelligence officials in the region.

6. 14:32 The US and India must work together to address the India-China border conflict and maintain stability in the Indo-Pacific region.
6.1 The US and India should strengthen their intelligence reviews, access and publicize unclassified commercial satellite imagery, proactively criticize Beijing, lean on Pakistan to stay neutral, and extend full support to India in case of a conflict with China.
6.2 The India China border conflict is central to the indo-pacific security environment and has pushed India into dilemmas of whether to look West or East.

7. 17:13 India faces a dilemma of allocating resources for defense on land or water due to Chinese aggression, neglecting peace agreements along the Lac.
7.1 India faces a dilemma of whether to allocate resources towards strengthening their defenses on land or in water due to Chinese aggression, leading to the neglect of agreements signed for peace and tranquility along the Lac.
7.2 Previous agreements restricting heavy weaponry near the Lac have been disregarded, resulting in both countries having their deadliest weapons along the border.

8. 19:04 China's deployment of missiles and bombers in Tibet escalates tensions with India, while the US provides support during the Ladakh crisis and releases a report on the Indo-Pacific region.
8.1 China's deployment of Russian S400 missiles and hk6 long-range bombers in Tibet has escalated tensions with India, possibly in response to India's warming relations with the US in 2006.
8.2 India's longest serving defense minister did not distinguish himself due to his broad focus and concern for exercise.
8.3 Chinese pushback led to the curtailment of the Malabar exercise and a slowdown in India's decision on whether to be equidistant, with a paper recommending India to go back to some kind of equidistance to avoid upsetting China.
8.4 The US has provided India with equipment and clothing during the Ladakh crisis, but India balances many things and may not want too much help from the US.
8.5 Senator Jeff's Merkley released a report with approval from the Biden Administration regarding the Indo-Pacific region, which includes events such as Chinese pressure on Bhutan and the U.S Senate resolution proclaiming Arunachal Pradesh as part of India.


Summary for https://youtu.be/8DmKNj7efFc by http://www.eightify.app
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by sanman »

Here's another video-summarizer I found, which is apparently based on ChatGPT:

https://www.summarize.tech/

Try it out and let me know what you think.
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Post by sanman »

This was pretty impressive

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Post by sanman »

Russia unveils GigaChat, its ChatGPT rival:

https://www.reuters.com/technology/russ ... 023-04-24/
sanman
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by sanman »

Good interview with one of the fathers of AI:

sanman
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by sanman »

The layoffs are coming:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... could-kill
IBM to Pause Hiring for Jobs That AI Could Do
Roughly 7,800 IBM jobs could be replaced by AI, automation
CEO Krishna says IBM to pause hiring for replaceable roles
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by Vayutuvan »

IBM's headcount is 100K. This is just 7.8%. That is nothing.
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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Post by sanman »

I'm trying OpenAI's Whisper for transcribing videos into text, and it seems to be the best publically available application.
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