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Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 07 May 2019 15:23
by ArjunPandit
^^the drop in solar energy prices and battery will bring in a revolution in these areas too.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 07 May 2019 19:13
by NRao
UB ji,

A quick, short response:

1) When one pushes "urban" sectors (as you are suggesting) over to "rural" sectors, the "rural" sector no longer remains "rural". Not sure if you recognize that fact. "Rural" becomes "rur-urban" and then "suburban" and finally "urban". This has been the broad trend for some 150 years, sir.

2) When "rural" transforms, the "agricultural" component is mostly taken over by a multi-national (please check out the latest proposal by our own Bernie)(not that I support or oppose him or his proposal, but I bring it up because these are the typical cycles urban/rural areas go through and most urbanites are unaware of such things that have been studied for ages)(full disclosure: I am an ex Urban Planner. Practiced it and lived to see the results 25+ years later). So, are you prepared for the typical Indian farmer to be bought out by a Monsanto? That is what Trump is asking for as I type - open Indian markets (which is unrelated to this thread). I am vehemently opposed to such a move. Rural areas need to be rural areas IMHO.

3) Indian rural areas, in 2018, I am told, lost 9 million jobs. It was not because of lack of rains or floods, etc. It was because of changed policies in ND. I suggest that ND come up with better policies so that Indian rural areas can thrive. IT can provide support, but I just do not like IT providing employment in rural India. IMHO, it is a great recipe for a disaster.

3a) IF you need or must push an Urban sector over rural, then I suggest we push manufacturing or construction.

4) I am not sure if you are aware, the Urban/Rural construct has morphed into Core/Non-Core construct. No more Rural or Urban!! Wall Street invasion to take over the last bastions of civilization and redefine things so Billionaires and make more Billions.

5) I still owe you the numbers on "AI". Will do so in a day or so. No easy teaching a vac Markov's model.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 07 May 2019 21:08
by UlanBatori
NRaoji:
Excellent points. But based on the Great Satanistan experience in a time when concerns about Climate Change were non-existent, land and fossil fuels available cheap and everywhere, and the Abrahamic Diktat was "Go Forth and Multiply! The Earth and All Universe Are Made For You To Rape!"

It is unlimited, unregulated expansion. This NEED NOT be the only route for NaMostan, although I fully agree that it IS the tendency in the absence of enlightened planning and implementation.

But times have changed, technology has changed.

And... most of the USA is actually rural, and pretty nice places to live.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 07 May 2019 22:51
by ArjunPandit
what is a vac Markov's model?

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 08 May 2019 01:21
by NRao
Very interesting find, FREE O'Reilly books. This site was updated on May 4, 2019, so the list of books must be very current too. These books cut across all topics (NOT just AI):

https://gist.github.com/viruscmd/5960ad ... d3ad9e1aa8

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 08 May 2019 04:23
by NRao

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 08 May 2019 23:51
by ArjunPandit
^^2, 3 and 4 total bakwas articles with no grounding in reality and total BS numbers. Has anyone even performed a search on Naukri, Timesjobs, monster on these jobs? Unless of course IT SQL jobs are rebranded as analytics jobs.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 09 May 2019 02:46
by ArjunPandit
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/npc/20 ... ly2018.pdf

It produced 643 widely-cited
AI research papers in 2015, behind only the United States and China, and churned out 2.6 million
STEM graduates in 2016.
Despite this, until quite recently AI research in the country was
primarily housed in universities, namely the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) and Indian
Institute of Science (IISc), and was focused on fintech and industrial applications.
AI R&D
activity in the public sector was limited, although leaders like Prime Minister Narendra Modi
had taken note of the emerging trend.
The turning point came in 2018, when the Indian government established a national program
on artificial intelligence during the Union budget session.
The immediate driver of this policy was
China’s AI Strategy, released in July 2017, which laid out a comprehensive national-level plan to
make China the global leader in AI. India’s AI program has a broad mandate, encapsulating
digital economy, the Internet of Things (IoT), and basic R&D. It established the AI Taskforce,
with members from the Ministries of Commerce, Electronics and Information Technology
(MeitY), Defense and the NITI Aayog, as well as academia and the private sector. The taskforce’s
report, released in March 2018, lays out a series of recommendations to address the challenges
India faces in AI development and application:

Applications in Defense
While there is no official military strategy document on the uses of AI in the battlefield yet,
there are several potential applications that, as Shashank Reddy of Carnegie India puts it, are
“low-hanging fruit.” Among these applications are logistics and supply-chain management, cyber
operations, and intelligence and reconnaissance.


In February 2018, the DRDO successfully tested the Rustom 2 UAV, and is
reportedly developing a “Multi Agent Robotics Framework” (MARF), a system that will enable
the Indian Army’s many battlefield robots to collaborate with each other on surveillance and
reconnaissance. The DRDO is also developing Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear, and
Explosive (CBRNe) UAVs to detect radiation, as well as Remotely-Operated Vehicles (ROVs) for
surveillance and IED disposal



Defence incubator approved by Centre, to come up in second phase of T-Hub
https://www.thehansindia.com/posts/inde ... Hub/398083

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 13 May 2019 03:00
by UlanBatori
From the Master Chess-Player Himself:
Whoever leads in AI will rule the world


However, the president said he would not like to see anyone “monopolize” the field.
“If we become leaders in this area, we will share this know-how with entire world, the same way we share our nuclear technologies today,” he told students from across Russia via satellite link-up, speaking from the Yaroslavl region
:eek:

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 13 May 2019 16:44
by ArjunPandit
UBji, Ras-putinji is right, but the problem is even with the smartest kids around, he will not be able to generate all the data he needs for IoT or with human interaction. That's where complex asiatic societies will be the future. Imagine an algo that can drive a car through the stretch from lal quila to say nai sadak. That algo will beat someone driving on I10 10 out of 10 times. You dont need irodov solving russian kids for that. The algo will extract info itself from the driving patterns without even an indepth understanding of the underlying dynamics. You just need the right reward function.
I understand there are simulation techniques and of course russian hackers at services to hack data from google maps and offering racing free games to indian kids. But you know the khan and lizard has already done that. So now the question is when do we wake up and move the Rock bottom ahead

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 16 May 2019 07:26
by UlanBatori
Ras-putinji needs the Red A(I)rmy to look ahead and pre-hack the next US election. Takes quite a lot of modeling and simulation by AI to figure out whom to hack.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 16 May 2019 21:28
by disha
Why cannot we use AI/ML/NLU to have Speech driven interfaces for Indian languages? We do not have any, and we can build one. But where is the research coming from universities?

All we do is follow the Nehru model of training smart engineers for western economies.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 16 May 2019 21:35
by UlanBatori
Great idea. AT JNU there is a Linguist prof whose team is developing cellphone-based instant translator of signboards in/to Indian languages. Speech translation is a tremendous need because even in Hindi, speakers from different regions are often unable to comverse. This is the type of app that requires employment of thousands/millions to catch the nuances. Plus the Big Data that result will become a resource to trace origins and link communities across geographical divide.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 16 May 2019 23:14
by ArjunPandit

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 16 May 2019 23:40
by disha
UlanBatori wrote:Great idea. AT JNU there is a Linguist prof whose team is developing cellphone-based instant translator of signboards in/to Indian languages. Speech translation is a tremendous need because even in Hindi, speakers from different regions are often unable to comverse. This is the type of app that requires employment of thousands/millions to catch the nuances. Plus the Big Data that result will become a resource to trace origins and link communities across geographical divide.


Speech is the next frontier. Imagine a world where all your interactions with objects around is with voice. And that is not a far future world. It is not even 5 years away. It is next year.

We have zero - ZERO - Indian languages on speech (both speech to text and text to speech) and Indian languages are far far far suited better in speech to text and text to speech.

And this research and a production of public SDK for mobile devices/embedded chips can be done by a dedicated team of some 12 engineers & 2-3 linguists in a space of 2 years for *all* Indian languages. All it will require is a budget of $30M. And it will produce IP worth in tens of billions (USD)! And this is low risk, just need the seed funding.

The first step of applying AI/ML/Neural Net will be in that area.

I do not expect body shop companies like Wipro/Cognizant/Infosys to take anything in this area and drive it to production. This has to be done by Indian Universities. They need to show the initiative. And it can be a national project and will help millions of Indians.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 17 May 2019 00:05
by ArjunPandit
^^while i disagree with resource requirements, given the scale of Indian languages and the diversity. I know of multiple organizations working with 100s of top quality engineers working with just english to come up with conversational chatbots and still not there where tehy want them to be. But then i fully agree with the utility of it in our own context. Further, it will enable us to easily conquer continental Europe with multiple languages. This is where I see china losing its large data advantage to us because of lack of diversity.
There can be multiple ways for this, a simple free voice chat phone number will a go a long way. I am sure Jio free number will come long way and can enable lot of things.
The question is how do we use teh demographic dividend.
Coming to the funding part I wonder why do we need funding? Do the colleges not have students with ample of time to play pubg/watch pawn or do they lack FOSS like R/Python or storage? A lot is doable with zero funding. There has to be a push. Yes there may be a need to have chai biskoot sessions of info share, awards for those who do meaningful stuff or may be availability of super computing or associated chip designs..but the colleges should have begun like 10 years back or can begin today and scrape BRF or DFI or SDF or even Pakdef ;)

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 17 May 2019 10:19
by NRao
Google translate has some 6 or so Indian languages. ?????

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 17 May 2019 22:42
by disha
NRao wrote:Google translate has some 6 or so Indian languages. ?????


They can do more, but not much business value from Google's perspective.

ArjunPandit wrote:^^while i disagree with resource requirements, given the scale of Indian languages and the diversity. I know of multiple organizations working with 100s of top quality engineers working with just english to come up with conversational chatbots and still not there where tehy want them to be.


If they are working in India for English for chatbots, they already lost the game. They should try the easier route to Indic languages.

Coming to the funding part I wonder why do we need funding? Do the colleges not have students with ample of time to play pubg/watch pawn or do they lack FOSS like R/Python or storage? A lot is doable with zero funding.


We need funding for strategic purchases, like designing a 'neural network' in chip that is dedicated to Indic language processing idioms and hiring professionals to do it. Second is to have a mix of seasoned professionals, dedicated professors, research students and engineers. Having dedicated labs and social studies (like how it is used in a rural setting? Or in a bus or a car or a train?). Idea is to make it cool.

You already touched on the chai biskoot sessions of info share (make it in Andamans or Goa) or meaningful awards and outreach into Bollywood/Tollywood etc. So yes, starting with a big warchest does not hurt.

And yes, totally agree that Universities can start it today. What do we have the IITS/IISc's for? It should be a national project.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 18 May 2019 06:06
by NRao
Anyone can use Google's AutoML Translation and train it to their heart's content. In *any* language.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 18 May 2019 07:26
by UlanBatori
disha wrote:Speech is the next frontier. Imagine a world where all your interactions with objects around is with voice. And that is not a far future world. It is not even 5 years away. It is next year.
We have zero - ZERO - Indian languages on speech (both speech to text and text to speech) and Indian languages are far far far suited better in speech to text and text to speech.

My Evil 6th coujin's Android phone gives Gee Pee Ess googal maps driving directions in a desi bibi's voice. Very British accent.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 19 May 2019 00:33
by Vayutuvan
This might be of interest to people in this thread.

CCC offers 20 year roadmap (USA)

May 14, 2019

Artificial Intelligence in all its guises has captured much of the conversation in HPC and general computing today. The White House, DARPA, IARPA, and Department of Energy all have issued strategies or undertaken programs intended to foster AI development and use. Yesterday, the Computing Community Consortium (CCC) weighed in with a 100-plus page draft report – A 20-Year Community Roadmap for Artificial Intelligence Research in the US – and CCC is seeking comment around its concepts and recommendations. ...

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 19 May 2019 00:38
by Vayutuvan
ArjunPandit wrote:you mean him??
https://www.jnu.ac.in/faculty/gnjha/


He is a Computational Linguistics man. His group is also doing building a corpus of texts in different languages which can be used to train translators.

No data, no training. The larger the dataset, both positive examples and negative examples, the better would be the quality of translation.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 19 May 2019 02:20
by Vayutuvan
NRao wrote:Anyone can use Google's AutoML Translation and train it to their heart's content. In *any* language.

NRao ji, a corpus is required. Moreover, domain expertise is the bare minimum requirement to use any advanced - hardware or software - tool.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 19 May 2019 02:28
by Vayutuvan
Current state of AI/NN/ML chips.

https://www.hpcwire.com/2019/05/14/deep-learning-competitors-stalk-nvidia/

...
First, Intel researchers claimed a new deep learning record for image classification on the ResNet-50 convolutional neural network. Separately, Israeli AI chip startup Hailo.ai released a new deep learning processor on Tuesday (May 14) designed to challenge Nvidia’s Xavier AGX platform for edge applications.

Intel claimed a deep learning performance record of 7,878 image per second on ResNet-50 running the latest generation of its Xeon Scalable processors, topping the performance of Nvidia’s Tesla V100 GPUs, which Intel said achieved 7,844 images per second.
...


But all this needs to be taken with a spoon full of salt. By the way, SC500 etc. lists are also similar. They run linpack/BLAS benchmarks to show maximum achievable performance. On real problems, only a fraction of the performance can be gotten, that too after lot of hardwork designing the over all algorithm.

With the proviso that the benchmarking system can be gamed, Intel nevertheless claimed it achieved record ResNet-50 performance using its second-generation Xeon Scalable processor, ...

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 19 May 2019 16:41
by tandav
Since we are trying to find good apps for general use.

Our team is using an Indian App called Task Care to manage our field staff across India. It has some basic functionalities such as GPS based attendance, ability to assign tasks to employees, leave tracking. You may want to check it out. We are hoping that we can replace whatsapp with TaskCare for our company communications.

https://task.care/

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 20 May 2019 03:57
by NRao
Vayutuvan wrote:
NRao wrote:Anyone can use Google's AutoML Translation and train it to their heart's content. In *any* language.

NRao ji, a corpus is required. Moreover, domain expertise is the bare minimum requirement to use any advanced - hardware or software - tool.


Very true, BUT the corpus does not have to be a Google investment. Unless you have reason to think otherwise. Google has invested in the ML solution and is/seems to be providing it free.

People of a state, in any nation, can decide to invest.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 20 May 2019 03:59
by NRao
May 9, 2019 :: Niti Aayog proposes Rs 7,500-crore plan for Artificial Intelligence push

NEW DELHi: The NITI Aayog has drawn up a plan for creating an institutional framework for artificial intelligence (AI) in the country. It has circulated a cabinet note to provide Rs 7,500 crore in funding for creation of cloud computing platform called AIRAWAT and research institutes. A senior government official told ET that the Aayog has already circulated the note for consideration by the Expenditure Finance Committee, which is expected to take it up soon.

......................


Image

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 20 May 2019 06:42
by UlanBatori
I wonder if I can contact NRaoji and Arjun Panditji. ubatori at geemail
Serious proposition.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 20 May 2019 18:21
by ArjunPandit
UlanBatori wrote:I wonder if I can contact NRaoji and Arjun Panditji. ubatori at geemail
Serious proposition.

feed the hungry..

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 20 May 2019 23:24
by ArjunPandit
can i bite till end of next week? 5/31??

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 21 May 2019 01:21
by UlanBatori
Sure! Have to write the Python to eat the food hain?

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 21 May 2019 04:45
by NRao
Folks (in India),

I would strongly urge anyone to get into microprocessors (Arduino or even a Raspberry Pi (although technically not a micro)) AND Fuzzy Logic. The learning curves are very, very manageable, need very low starting investments, can be customized to any localized needs and actually make a difference to the people around you (without having to depend on mega companies to help you).

Since the likes of Arduino are open source, you can find help to build very simple NNs on that gizmo. You can network them to form parallel processors (simple ones of course). There is a lot to learn, but a LOT of help on the net - if you really want to solve problems.

I have implemented some form of:
* Gesture control to open/close dust bins (I no longer have to touch anything). One can extend that to anything that will work with gestures - doors, windows, lights, watering the lawn, whatever
* Working on a smart, CHEAP robotic vac (there are plenty of expensive vacs that do some things and not other, mine is customized for my needs). It takes a picture of the ceiling, assumes that the floor plan follows the ceiling, goes to map the track for vac, etc. Mops too).
* An extension of that, and a far more challenging is a gizmo that identifies "stuff" on the floor and places the items in a pile. Essentially cleans up
* Shower temp controller, based on voice (and GUI) controls. It shuts off the water when the user does not need water flow, etc, saving water
* The Passive Haus that I am designing has Arduino controllers for air quality and quantity - for each room

All based on Arduino, programmed in C!!!

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 21 May 2019 05:08
by UlanBatori
I second that. Only problem we have seen is that current rating of things that one buys with one's meager paise (usually from cheen) are too low, and they go "phut" too easily. But this is an absolutely fantastic vista of opportunity.

Wonder if there is an Arduino lookalike in desh, with higher current ratings. Ard-varkeySingh?

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 21 May 2019 11:29
by ArjunPandit
NRao wrote:Folks (in India),

I would strongly urge anyone to get into microprocessors (Arduino or even a Raspberry Pi (although technically not a micro)) AND Fuzzy Logic. The learning curves are very, very manageable,

Nraoji folks in India are not in cave I myself knew many edu did similar stuff many years back especially on smart homes side. I also know of profs who do take trainings on it on summer break. The challenges they find is,
1. Students want to do MBA and earn money. So they do with the intent of resume boosters
2. Idea to product journey incubators don't exist in ab pervasive manner
3. People are not willing to bet one of their balls on their ideas

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 22 May 2019 00:55
by NRao
AP Ji,

I understand. MBAs being way, way above my pay grade. So, I do not blame them.

My focus was "AI" guys. Like this one here. This was developed and still today works on a Raspberry Pi !!!!! Cost of hardware? Less than say $100.00.

Nick just sold his company to Thale-USA, so he is very busy trying to talk English with a French accent.

BTW, that fuzzy logic code works equally well on any of the F series. Currently, the code is in a simulator but should be in the first test bed by say 2023. That is the plan anyway.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 22 May 2019 03:19
by ArjunPandit
NRao wrote:AP Ji,

I understand. MBAs being way, way above my pay grade. So, I do not blame them.

My focus was "AI" guys. Like this one here. This was developed and still today works on a Raspberry Pi !!!!! Cost of hardware? Less than say $100.00.

Nick just sold his company to Thale-USA, so he is very busy trying to talk English with a French accent.

BTW, that fuzzy logic code works equally well on any of the F series. Currently, the code is in a simulator but should be in the first test bed by say 2023. That is the plan anyway.

NRao saa'b,
to me it's not the paygrade but the brain grade that matters. You're not wrong, what I talked was about central tendency, you're talking about are exceptional guys in US. Long back I had a conversation with a paki, on why pakistan has good bowlers and India good batsmen. His answer was "fast bowlers require mentoring from early age, and pakistan was lucky to have good ones to mentor a generation and India good batsmen. While overcast conditions help, but it was more of mentoring system of imran wasim waqar that helped a no. of average bowlers become above avg and above avg become outstanding." So we're yet to see first gen folks who are more interested in creating stuff rather than just buying real estate in kormangala and selling it to Walmarts

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 23 May 2019 02:44
by UlanBatori
JFYI, they used concrete pitches in high schools. With hard balls as well as tennis balls. Indian pitches are loose sand and gravel, or soft mud more or less like Indian baboon log. Try shaking hands with one and you can see the difference with the noodle-handed insincerity. Fast bowlers just get discouraged so fast. On a concrete pitch a good brave fast-reflex batsman can murder any bowler who is not super-accurate, while a good accurate fast bowler can terrify all lesser batsmen and make them back away from the stumps.
It's that simple. Nowadays India has started getting good pitches. Likewise, if India provides good challenging applications to village kids you can watch them zooming.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 28 May 2019 14:55
by ArjunPandit
http://idrw.org/indian-army-plans-to-us ... ext-level/
hate to use IDRW, but aafice has blocked ET and TOI....NDTV was blocked long back...

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 05 Jun 2019 00:20
by EswarPrakash
Guys, I am working with the social housing sector here in the UK implementing AI to optimise their tenant experience and cost effectiveness. Keen to work on a citizens IoT back in our motherland. Not sure if there are any initiatives around in India. I was hoping to start with our beloved Kashi.

If there are projects already will be keen to join up.

Re: AI/Machine Learning, Bharat and Bhartiya IT Industry

Posted: 05 Jun 2019 08:49
by negi
There are hundreds if not thousands of IoT , AI what not initiatives in India ,tens of them are well funded . Most of them are for profit ventures so joining them is possible via usual means.