Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

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Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Cyrano » 01 Mar 2021 23:42

Starting this thread with mod suryag's permission.

This thread is for sharing good dietary information, principles and experiences, lifestyle habits, exercises, that lead to better health and wellbeing.

Importance of food in Dharmic tradition:
The following shloka from Bhagavad Gita resumes Dharmic view on food and is recited as a prayer before eating:
BrahmarpaNam Brahma havih Bhahmagnau brahmaNaahutam I
Brahmaiva tena gantavyam Brahma karma samadhinaah II

Aham vaishvanaro bhutva praNinaam deham ashritaah
Pranayama samayuktaah Pachyam annam chaturvidham


Meaning (as it was told to me and as I understood it over time):
The food one eats is an offering to God since there is divinity in everyone. Treat it with respect like an offering made to Agni during a yagna (= havan or sacrificial fire). The food you eat ends up as your self, which is divine, so treat the process of eating as a sacred act.

I the Divine am the fire of digestion in the stomach of all life forms, along with the process of breathing I digest foods of various (four types).
Sarve janaha sukhino bhavantu ! May you all live well !

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Cyrano » 02 Mar 2021 00:37

Before talking about food, its worthwhile to consider the good conditions of preparing and consuming food. In south India many of these cleanliness practices are together called "maDi". These are often misunderstood as Brahmanical therefore discriminatory etc. but given the frequent water, air and contact borne diseases and epidemics in India, these are simply about hygiene for survival and health. Everyone can follow maDi :)

Here are some maDi principles that were drilled into me since childhood:
Cooking:
- Cooking environment ie kitchen and its surroundings must be cleaned regularly, at least once a day, preferably before preparing each meal.
- Do not bring shoes, outer wear, pets, any soiled objects into the kitchen. Do not go needlessly into the kitchen.
- Take a bath or at least wash hands, face and feet before preparing food. Wear clean clothes.
- Once you are clean, do not make close contact with others until food preparation, serving and eating are done.
- Ensure all cooking utensils, implements, surfaces, fireplace are immaculately clean.
- Use fresh ingredients be it vegetables, grains, oils, fats, spices etc. Wash and dry them as appropriate before use.
- Do not mix leftovers or stale ingredients with fresh preparations.
- Dispose off kitchen waste immediately and appropriately.
- Those who are not involved in cooking must avoid going into the kitchen or handling cooking items, ingredients etc.
- Offering cooked food to god before eating is a way to make you follow maDi seriously !
- Cooked food must be kept covered and not touched by others before serving.

Eating:
- Change to clean clothes, wash hands, face and feet before eating.
- Take a moment to say a (silent) prayer if you can. Its a way of remembering all those who made the food on your plate possible and thank them.
- Do not share half eaten food, or food that has touched your saliva or your eating hand.
- Do not spit out edible portions of food but put them in a corner of your plate or in a cup.
- Meal waste must be disposed immediately and not left around the kitchen or eating area.
- Utensils used for eating must be set aside and cleaned ASAP.

maDi habits can be and need to be adopted by everyone, as much as possible. Modern life makes some of these a bit difficult or less critical, but most can be followed in India or abroad. If you make a habit of them, they become part of your life and cease to be a burden.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Primus » 02 Mar 2021 04:36

Cyrano Ji, excellent points all. I remember most of these were followed strictly in my grandma's kitchen in the ancestral village years ago. Food was simple and yet, wholesome.

Sadly, very little of this is done in the modern household in India and certainly not in the West.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby sudarshan » 02 Mar 2021 10:10

There are other rules, don't know if they fall within maDi or are counted under some other principle. Like:

* Even when storing, don't store cooked and uncooked food together, even in the fridge
* Do not get certain ingredients/ raw materials wet under any circumstance, not even a little bit of water
------Oils
------Spices
------Flour
------Ghee
------Dals
------Etc.
* So even when using spoons or ladles on these items, make sure those spoons or ladles are absolutely dry
* Certainly no question of accidentally mixing saliva with any of these (YUCK!)
* Do not eat food which has been lying out in the heat for longer than half a day or so
------Dals
------Rice
------Milk (yogurt or ghee are okay, milk can also be reboiled)
------Chutneys (although - let's not talk about hotels)
------Etc.
* Hand bacteria can spoil certain foods, so avoid pawing them
* OTOH - hand bacteria are deliberately used to ferment idli or dosa batter.

Then there are rules like what to eat on ekadashi (no rice or grains/ carbs in general), dvadashi (eat amla - big vitamin C boost), etc. Makes for a varied and balanced diet. People try to cheat by saying "so I shouldn't eat rice, rice flour is ok though." The point is lost - restricting carbs two days of the month.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby asgkhan » 02 Mar 2021 11:19

Monday
BF 2 Brown bread
Lunch Brown rice
Evening 2 Brown Bread Sandwich
Night Vegetable Steamed


Tuesday
BF 2 Brown Bread
Lunch Ragi Dosa
Evening 2 Brown Bread Sandwich
Night Chinese Oats

Wednesday
BF 2 Brown Bread
Lunch Ragi Ball + Brown Rice
Evening 2 Brown Bread Sandwich
Night Vegetable Steamed

Thursday
BF 2 Brown Bread
Lunch Chinese fried Rice
Evening 2 Brown Bread Sandwich
Night Vegetable Oats

Friday
BF 2 Brown Bread
Lunch Chapati + Egg
Evening 2 Brown Bread Sandwich
Night Steamed Vegetable

Saturday
BF 2 Brown Bread
Lunch Chinese Noodles
Evening 2 Brown Bread Sandwich
Night Steamed Vegetable

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby asgkhan » 02 Mar 2021 11:24

Sunday is cheat day. Get white rice + chicken/mutton.

Hopefully I should loose a couple of kilos combined with 10000 steps a day.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Cyrano » 02 Mar 2021 13:21

****Reposting into this thread****

Few things that work for me to keep weight under control and eat a more balanced, healthy diet :

- Reduce sugar to minimum, replace with honey when possible.
- Avoid processed foods, ketchup, sauces, biscuits, chips, namkeen, sugar added juices, soft drinks etc. High in salt and sugar.
- Eat mostly home cooked food, restaurant food is high in salt, oil, sugar, hygiene doubtful
- Aim for at least 50% volume of food from veggies.
- Eat home made curd/buttermilk in every meal, or at least once a day.
- Eat eggs/meat/fish not more than twice a week if you cant stay away from it. Wed & Sun for ex.
- Eat at regular times. Avoid eating on the move/rush/standing. Min 60 mins lunch break.
- Avoid snacking between meals, eat seasonal fruit if you are tempted.

MOST IMPORTANT:
Eat SLOWLY, chew well. Saliva contains the enzyme Ptyalin which breaks down carbohydrates into simple sugars. When you eat slowly this happens adequately and the released simple sugars give you a sugar hit that leads to satisfaction of eating. Take at least 25 mins, max 35 mins for eating. You will automatically eat less. Walk for 10 mins post meal, you'll feel great after.

Last tip from my personal experience :
When you eat to 25% of the stomach's capacity hunger pangs are gone.
When you eat to 50% of the stomach's capacity hunger is totally gone.
When you eat to 75% of the stomach's capacity SLOWLY you will be fully satiated.
Then STOP.
Last 25% should be left empty to enable digestion, and avoid overeating due to greed. Else your stomach expands and you'll get into a cycle of eating more to feel full and its becomes a vicious cycle.

Just like you cant fill a washing machine up to the brim with clothes and expect it to work correctly. You should always leave the table feeling there is a bit of space left in your belly. This takes some practice, but in a couple of weeks you'll get the hang of it and will be surprised why you were eating more earlier.

None of the above is rocket science, all of India used to eat mostly like this just a few decades ago. Kitchens were out of bounds except while eating so there was very little snacking. No fridge = fresh home food each meal. Vegetable sellers used to roam the streets in hot sun, so the veggies had to be fresh, plucked the previous evening. Small, efficient local supply chains. No preservatives or artificial ripeners were used. Supermarket veggies in India are really pathetic, don't buy there.

If you add some exercise, Yoga (suryanamaskar, pranayama, few simple asanas), and good sleeping habits, things will greatly improve in 3 months.

Also brush twice a day and use tongue cleaner. You'll get better oral health, better digestion. I was shocked to see the west doesn't use tongue cleaners and are obliged to use breath fresheners all the time and still most people have bad breath and bad teeth by 40s.

Don't smoke or drink. If you do, limit it and taper away gradually. Once you have crossed 45, they start wrecking real havoc in your body.

I don't manage to follow all of the above all the time. But I do manage at least 50% of the above most of the time. People usually take me for a good 10-15 years younger than I am ;-)

Hope these work for you.

Don't follow any fad diets like High protein, Keto, veggies only, vegan etc. They are psychologically taxing, results temporary and cause more problems than they solve. Indian style vegetarianism is good but not mandatory from health perspective if you follow the above guidelines.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Cyrano » 02 Mar 2021 13:42

Sudarshan ji,
The points you shared nicely complement maDi principles. They were very much followed since grain, dals and various ingredients that were often purchased in bulk in season and their optimal strorage to last the rest of the year was very important in our hot & humid weather.

There are a whole lot of traditional eating practices that combine seasonal produce with lunar calendar auspicious / inauspicious days where specific dishes were made with prescribed ingredients, incorporated ritual fasting (for ex: upavasam on ekadashi days) etc, that got lost between by grandmother's generation and mine. She lived in a small town, I grew up in a big city with a different rhythm and both my parents worked. We tried to follow some but often tradition ceded to convenience.

Alas she is no more, but I hope there are still some elders who possess this generationally transmitted knowledge that needs to be collected and published. I haven't come across such a book, perhaps there is one in an Indian language. Makes for an interesting project to get such a book written and published.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Cyrano » 02 Mar 2021 13:55

Speaking of books, one of my favourites that I keep referring to after all these years, to get the taste just right like my grand mother's cooking, or simply to see the gorgeous pictures, salivate and get inspired to cook:

Image

Still available on amazon !

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby AshishA » 02 Mar 2021 14:44

I want to highlight the explosion of a few diseases in India over the last few decades. Its alarming that the explosion of diseases like diabetes, cholesterol, hypertension is going unchecked. India is now home to the second largest population of diabetics. The situation is so bad that even some of the young adults are suffering from these diseases. Some of these diseases are due to poor diet and lack of exercise.

Another disease that's affecting Indians are the mental health problems. Many Indians are suffering from this silently and they are reluctant to seek help for the fear of being branded pagal.

Another sheldom talked about issue is the worsening eyesight of Indian kids and teenagers. This has started happening ever since the internet age has started. Many of the children have started wearing specs from a rather young.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Rsatchi » 02 Mar 2021 16:52

Just wanted add about :
Upvasa/upvas
Palahara (meaning just fruits or light lunch)
In the south : people used to do vrat or upvasa or palahara once a week or during Ekadashi etc
There has been recent interest in this subject with ?? studies being conducted.
There is a Brit Doc of Asian origin who has recently written a book about the benefits of fasting, glucose metabolism insulin regulation etc
The practice of palahara/vrat is completely gone out of the window nowadays!!

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Cyrano » 02 Mar 2021 17:34

I think women do upavasam from time to time even these days, men a lot less.
The latest trend of intermittent fasting is the same stuff repackaged by the west !

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby AshishA » 02 Mar 2021 17:47

Cyrano wrote:I think women do upavasam from time to time even these days, men a lot less.
The latest trend of intermittent fasting is the same stuff repackaged by the west !

West is repackaging a lot of the Indian things. Especially yoga.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Primus » 02 Mar 2021 18:12

All good points above.

Fasting is certainly beneficial, lots of data to show that. However, like many such things, there is no consensus on how much. Thus, while it is good medicine, no idea what the right dose is. Same with exercise in general. Yes, usual numbers suggest three times a week for one hour at least, meet the target heart rate etc, but there is still a very poor definition as far as weight loss is concerned or even good health.

I've been working for over 20 yrs with morbidly obese patients. Where I practice there are several very busy surgeons doing bariatric surgery and we see a lot of their patients in referral. Just two days ago we did an endoscopy on a woman 5' 2" weighing over 350 lbs. These patients range from BMIs of just over 40 to over 65, some weighing in at over 400 lbs. Of course the 'super obese' are a completely different problem.

In general the hardest thing with weight loss is the 'mind over matter' issue. People want to lose weight but often find it hard to motivate themselves to do what is needed. Even with bariatric surgery, you first need to demonstrate a certain amount of weight loss in the initial part of the program before they will take you. Recidivism is also quite high.

Fundamental principles remain the same - control the portions, eliminate sweets and high density foods, regular exercise. Add to this judicious pick of macro nutrients, regular sleep habits, eliminate anxiety and stress (very hard to do) and finally, see your doctor on a regular basis to keep all the health checks going. Obesity, esp morbid obesity is a killer in many ways.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Rsatchi » 02 Mar 2021 19:02

also the old ways of various cereals especially in the South : Ragi, Jowar. etc is being re-introduced after I have to say too much of Western Guidance.
The incidence of Coeliac/lactose intolerance etc less in the traditional diet.
Added to this the concept of right food for the right season also helped
to give an example just January we have Shankranthi/Pongal
Traditional (apart from Pongal) is for Till/Gud or Sesame and jaggery both beneficial during peak of winter
The Indian dietary habits are replete with such associations but the modern ways have caused serious disruptions
Needs to be re introduced with beneficial effects of seasonal diet!!

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Mar 2021 03:13

Who in India are the people with the highest BMI?

Any generLisations as to income, residence, ethnicity, religion, diet?

Conversely I see very few Tamil Brahmins who are obese. I believe it is due to their culture.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby SBajwa » 03 Mar 2021 03:20

Question!

Can any food in the world beat the number of carbohydrates in Kheer or sweet rice ?

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Mar 2021 03:38

The most calorie dense foods are high in fats.

It has to do with the oxidation number. Look at the general molecular structure of carbohydrates, amino acids ( proteins) and fats. If you see lots of hydrogens, that food has more calories.

Fats 9 calories per gram
Carbohydrates about 5
Proteins about 4. IIRC.

So any foods with ghee or oils would be higher calories.
I think kheer is mostly carbohydrate from rice and also has milk proteins. Plus sugar which is carbohydrate.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Mar 2021 03:42

Just to clarify, look at hydrogens bonded to carbon. Carbohydrates have many hydrogens but bonded to oxygens.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Suraj » 03 Mar 2021 05:36

Boss log, first you turned politics thread into food thread, and confused us bredators into wondering whether to first ban you all and then eat, or first eat and then ban you all.

Now you're turning the food thread into the organic chemistry thread. What's wrong with you all , hain jee ? :(( :((

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby sudarshan » 03 Mar 2021 07:29

See, first things first.

What is this "hydrogen?" :-?

Kidding :). I think Suraj san was kidding also? If you discuss food, you discuss calories, and then the chemistry becomes relevant there. And this is also an overall fitness thread, not just food.

But then Bajwa's question wasn't about calories, it was about carbs. And the answer to that is - of course there are foods which beat kheer (hands down) in carbs. I assume you mean on a gram-per-gram basis, otherwise the comparison doesn't make sense.

Kheer is rice + milk + sugar. So it has fats, proteins, and of course, a good amount of water. So it isn't 100% carbs. So 1 gram of kheer has less than 1 gram of carbs, probably like 0.5 grams carbs per gram kheer.

OTOH, 1 gram of sugar is basically 1 gram of carbs. So sugar would beat kheer on the carbs count. So would cotton candy (basically sugar - I'll discount the food coloring). Or that white stuff, I think they call it "mishri," which is given as prasad. Or even white rice (which isn't 100% carbs, but still - so sweet rice would be very carby, but not 100% carbs). Or honey.

I'm reasonably sure that the stuff they sell as "funnel cake" would also beat the stuffing out of kheer, carb-wise. I can eat a serving of funnel cake over a period of two weeks, any faster than that, it exits in the wrong direction.

Now - why were you asking? Just curious.
Last edited by sudarshan on 03 Mar 2021 08:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Mukhi » 03 Mar 2021 08:23

Primus wrote:All good points above.

Fasting is certainly beneficial, lots of data to show that. However, like many such things, there is no consensus on how much. Thus, whilef it is good medicine, no idea what the right dose is....... Obesity, esp morbid obesity is a killer in many ways.



Posting it again as my earlier post dies not show.

As far as fasting goes, For Gujarat, this is what we were told growing up by out grandparents, temples, especially BAPS and Vaishnavs.

At minimum, fast on each EkaDashi (11th Day of Moon Cycle).

Then, once you are good at fasting on EkaDashi, if you can, fast one day a week regularly. Keep this habit life long. If you can do this, you are pretty much set for Fasting.

Then, if you want or if you can, fast 9 Days of Navratri.

Now, the ultimate level. Fast the entire Month of Shravan Maas. As well as, Chatur Maas and Adhik Maas ( Happens every 4 Years).

We were explained five level of fasting as Kids.
1. Simple - One Meal. Then Water, Fruits and Dairy as needed.
2. Farar Food and Water Only.
3. Fruits and Water Only.
4. Liquids only. Such as Water or Non Salted / Sugared Liquids.
5. Nothing. Not even Water.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Mukhi » 03 Mar 2021 08:41

Cyrano wrote:I think women do upavasam from time to time even these days, men a lot less.
The latest trend of intermittent fasting is the same stuff repackaged by the west !


Over the years, had many conversations with Grandma(s) and relatives about this. The questions always lingered in my mind as to why girls have to do so many fasts?

Few of the points explained by many ladies, was that it teaches them self control, makes them able to control desires and subconsciously, prepares them to deal with tough times should it ever come in their life once girls were married off.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Mar 2021 09:10

In my hot-blooded shabab, I would have dismissed it as misogyny.

Now I am not so sure.

I speculate that repeated fasting in females may prime, perhaps through epigenetic modification, the genome so progeny may be hardier in food scarcity times.

It should be easy enough to test in animal models.

Good question, sorry for the compulsive 'saaince'.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Atmavik » 03 Mar 2021 10:59

"Food can either be Tasy or Healthy" -- wise old man

somehow SHQ managed to prepare food that was neither healthy nor tasty so I decided to start eating at my office cafeteria. the cafe had a program to encourage healthy eating. decided to give it a try and started liking the turkey burgers and the grilled chicken. the meal would substitute carrots/fruits for fries. I tried this for three months and lost 20 pounds.

i have deviated from this after the pandemic but my weight is still under control.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Cyrano » 03 Mar 2021 15:02

There might be a simpler explanation as to why women fast more often. Men traditionally did more hard physical work and could burn off excess calories more easily. Plus working outside in the fields or in workshops in hot conditions on empty stomach means if you feel drained due to hypoglycaemia or dehydration, you may not have food/drink at hand to revive you quickly. Health risk for breadwinner = whole family at risk. Women who mostly worked at home could fast with a lot less risk.

Women working at home could very well consume excess calories and gain weight over time (this is more noticeable in large joint families since there is greater work sharing and possibly some household work done by domestic help, since large joint families are typically more affluent). Most women gave birth to several children since contraception was absent, and excess weight complicates pregnancy. Post-partum weight gain is common, and periodic fasting when no longer lactating contributes to getting into shape and becoming attractive again to the husband and be in a better shape for the next pregnancy.

The traditional lunar calendar has lots of auspicious days for female deities that were linked with fasting rituals. There are some for men as well, but women have more such days.

The arrival of birth control and employment opportunities outside home has changed all that for women. Almost concomitantly, the explosion of service jobs of all kinds has changed the lifestyle for lots of men as well.

Today it would seem that its men who need fasting much more than women. :)

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Rsatchi » 03 Mar 2021 23:38

sanjaykumar wrote:The most calorie dense foods are high in fats.


Very true
Animal source : meat especially red meat High in protein and fat.
Neanderthal diet entirely meat based as they needed to burn high calories during the ice-age times.
With ready availability of red meat which is cheaper as well has turned people from occasional meat eating to every day.
Furthermore all the unspent calories start piling up and there is an interesting recent research finding as where they get stored and its effect :D
Imagine the 'Apple' and the 'Pear' ( I mean the shape :lol: )
Apple-shaped storage is not good and infact dangerous to health
Whereas as a 'Pear Shape' :rotfl: :rotfl: not too bad according to recent research ( meaning a big derriere is not bad at all :rotfl: )
Mid-riff fat is quite bad to health :lol: :lol:

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Cyrano » 04 Mar 2021 00:11

There are all kinds of observational studies in this field that are peddled as "research" by proponents of every type of food or method. Its very hard to distinguish stuff from fluff. At least for me.

I like how this doctor explains the subject of studies itself:


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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Primus » 04 Mar 2021 02:24

Fats have 9 cal per gram, carbs and proteins 4 Cal each. However, other than pure fat in the form of say a teaspoon of ghee or palm oil or lard, you don't usually ingest it as such but as part of a food. Similarly we rarely eat just one tsp of sugar or protein, we use it in things we make. Hard to get pure protein other than protein powder which too is not 100% protein.

It is also incorrect to assume that only meats or fish have high protein content, lentils, whey also do.

Mukhi Ji, you are correct. Some form of fasting is always beneficial, current fad being 'time-restricted feeding', popularly known as 'intermittent fasting'. There are umpteen forms of this and perhaps all are useful, but the problem with many people is that when they fast, it is either not a real 'zero calorie intake' experience or when they break this fast, they consume too many calories as a reward of sorts. In our traditional culture, women (and often the men too) do some kind of fasting, but usually substitute the normal diet for a restrictive one as far as the constituents go, but consume the same amount of calories.

Regardless, fasting is like exercise, a great motivator and a wonderful way to exert self-control. The biggest problem with weight loss programs or endeavors is just that, an inability to control your urges to eat. When you start any kind of caloric restriction, the body fights you vigorously, pouring out hormones and chemicals like neuropeptide Y which is the most potent stimulant of appetite known. This fight is especially hard at the beginning of any dietary restriction and requires enormous self-control.

Our physiology is programmed for thousands of years to feed the body, it is very difficult to turn this off.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby V_Raman » 04 Mar 2021 05:59

My practical observations

Eating fatty foods fills you up faster with lower portion sizes. That is not the same with carbs. If veggies are cooked in generous oil - then they are tastier. meal with more than 50% nice "vadakkal" veggies and smaller rice portions with fried appalam - makes me feel happy :-) and I think this is healthy as it is more balanced.

as a south indian vegetarian - protein is an issue. taking lentils for it does not cut it. it adds disproportionate amount of carbs. so i resort to protein drinks with whey or plant protein.

and eating a piece of fruit in the middle of the meal and at the end - makes me feel full faster.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby venkat_kv » 04 Mar 2021 06:48

SBajwa wrote:Question!

Can any food in the world beat the number of carbohydrates in Kheer or sweet rice ?


SBajwa Saab,
by and large any western sweets/deserts will handily eat the carb number/count in indian dishes. even if you are to take the sweetest of them - rosgolla, jangri, ladoo, agra petta, or your kheer or sweet rice, you will not be able to beat the carb number from brownies, black forest chocolates cakes, pudding, ice-cream and the assorted ilk.

Not to mention Kheer or sweet rice is still rice or carbs, but in the above you also deal with refined flour/maida along with sugar. thats a double whammy.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Primus » 04 Mar 2021 20:04

Bajwa Ji, just check out Haagen Daz's, Ben and Jerry's and other premium ice creams. They typically contain 300 plus calories per serving (a pint - two cups - contains anywhere from 1100-1500 calories) and are loaded with fat and sugar. Our own sweets are nothing in comparison.

Raman Ji, yes, whey protein is the way to go for vegetarians, but lentils, seitan, nutritional yeast, tofu, chick peas, edamame are all quite rich in protein, plus they also provide fiber and, IMHO taste quite good. I am mostly vegetarian myself.

at the end of the day, it is a balance and control of portions that is most important. One way to help is to drink a full glass of water before a meal, or a leafy salad without dressing. Also, I found in my own case, to wait 15-20 mts after finishing a meal before you eat any dessert, you tend to consume less that way, the cravings diminish with time, the maximum being immediately after a meal.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby SBajwa » 05 Mar 2021 04:08

Thank you guys.

Sandeep

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Thakur_B » 05 Mar 2021 15:13

Primus ji, if bioavailability of vegetarian sources of proteins is factored then the dietary protein requirements shoot up significantly. Vegetarian diet should be heavily supplanted with full fat milk / dairy products in copius amounts.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Adrija » 05 Mar 2021 15:57

I am not sure if the belief of a vegetarian diet lacking in protein is fully founded on fact at least in the India context- some of nuts (e.g. peanut, almonds) and grains (e.g., ramdana/ amaranth) are much more protein dense (gram for gram) than meat.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Cyrano » 05 Mar 2021 16:24

It seems like a myth to me that a vegetarian diet is deficient in protein. Various types of lentils, milk, curds, paneer, various types of beans, peas, nuts etc are good sources of protein. There are other exotic sources like spirulina, quinoa, oats, wild rice, chia etc etc. If you are OK with eggs, then whole eggs or egg whites are excellent sources of protein. Some vegetarians eat fish as well.

During growing years and sometimes post 60 years you will need more % of protein. Otherwise, a regular vegetarian diet (a standard Indian thali with dal, a beans curry and curds for example) incorporating some of the various sources listed above - all of which are a lot less expensive than meat - is definitely adequate for most people. There are numerous examples of high performance and endurance athletes on vegetarian/vegan diet, latest example being Virat Kohli.

Whey protein which many body builders take is in fact made from the watery part of curds! Vegetarian sources of protein differ from meat in that meat comes with along animal fat, present in significant quantities in beef, pork, mutton, and to a lesser extent in chicken. You need that fat (and salt) when grilling or cooking meat to make it tasty.

Industrial animal and chicken farms use feed which is mainly corn and cereals, but supplement the feed with ground abattoir waste as a source of protein (making these animals cannibals ! in fact mad cow disease arose due to this, but the practice is still very prevalent) and pump steroids, growth hormones and antibiotics, to increase and hasten meat yield, and the animals are reared in horrible conditions. Even "free range" animals might still be given such cannibal feed and shot with steroids. Fish (salmon, tilapia and others) and shrimp grown in large aqua farms has its own set of problems, their feed is poorly regulated and whatever they eat, you end up eating as well.

Meat & fish consumption per capita has shot up tremendously world wide in the past half century, will search for those stats and post. Meat has a huge ecological footprint. It has wrecked most ecosystems and high consumption of meat has ruined health of billions of people. Corn for ex is grown in huge quantities mostly to make cattle feed, but its by product corn syrup is a major industrial sweetener, and is now the major factor causing obesity in USA. Corn farmers get some of the biggest agricultural subsidies in US & EU. So industrial meat and corn syrup are dead cheap. So cheap that you can eat a $0.99 meat + soda meal in a fastfood and hasten to be dead.

Eat meat if you must but it will be due to personal preference than vegetarian diet lacking protein. Even then it would be wise to restrict it to 2 servings per week of country chicken or fish caught on a line in rivers or oceans. Largely adequate for most people.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Cyrano » 05 Mar 2021 17:48

Here you go:
https://ourworldindata.org/meat-production
China's appetite for meat has skyrocketed since the sixties. Next place is US, but far behind China.
NOTE: This doesn't include fish and seafood, which China catches in huge quantities with gigantic trawlers in almost every ocean and also imports massively from SE Asia and even India.

India has one of the lowest per capita meat consumption in the world, though its cattle population is 2nd highest in the world . India's cattle numbers have remained mostly stable at 170-180M heads, next only Brazil which went from 56M in 1960S to 216M in 2014. India produced 188Mt of milk in 2014 N°1 in the world, while Brazil produced only 34Mt of milk despite having 36M more cattle. (which explains why massive deforestation has been occurring - to create pasture grounds for meat).

Lots of amazing nuggets there if you explore the data, but that would be more appropriate for agriculture & food security thread.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby Primus » 06 Mar 2021 20:46

If you really want to understand the meat industry, Timothy Pachirat's 'Every Twelve Seconds' is a scathing indictment of the slaughterhouses and the general treatment of meat cattle. As aptly subtitled, it is an 'industrial slaughter' and all about 'politics of sight'. he is Professor at Yale who went undercover to work in a slaughterhouse in Nebraska and tells a harrowing tale of the conditions under which the animals are killed and processed. The title tells you how often an animal is killed - every twelve seconds. There is only one person 'the knocker' who actually shoots a bolt into the head of the animal. He stands there for 8 hrs a day, killing an animal every 12 seconds. Imagine the psychological trauma of this on an individual. The guy in this job never lasts more than a few weeks.

There is a YT video where Pachirat talks about this.

I highly recommend this book to anyone who is concerned about where we are going as a society.

Many people love to eat meat but cannot stand the sight of raw meat or body parts of animals. This is how we brainwash our children into eating meat, they do not see the animal being killed or dismembered or what raw meat looks like. Mom makes it look nice and appetizing on a plate, hence the origins are kept secret. This is how societies have dealt with it throughout history, keep it hidden.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby sudarshan » 06 Mar 2021 21:45

Primus wrote:...


How do the elephants get so big? Don't they have the same issues of low protein content in plant matter, and low bio-availability of that protein? I think meat eaters just keep coming up with these excuses.

There was an article I read once (long ago, I can try to find it again). It talked about this concept of "essential amino acids and the 'fact' that one needs to eat meat to get enough of them." For those not in the know - essential amino acids are the ones which the human body does not have the ability to synthesize, so the only way to get them is through diet. The article did an analysis of the amounts of these amino acids in various plant foods. The key concept was that of "limiting amino acid." For example - if one got all of one's calorie requirements entirely from bananas. How deficient would one get in the essential amino acids? Which one would one be most deficient in? Bananas are extremely low in protein, but the article also considered other plant foods which are low in protein.

Eating only bananas every day - one would get at least 60% of the limiting amino acid. The limiting amino acid is defined (in that article - this is not a general scientific term) as the one which one would be *MOST DEFICIENT IN,* by eating only that food. Which means, the other amino acids would be fulfilled to a higher degree than 60%. With other plant foods, the limiting amino acid fared even better. I.e., by getting one's entire daily calorie requirements from the most protein-deficient foods, one would still end up getting at least 60% of each essential amino acid.

The article conjectured that these amino acids could not be synthesized by the body, not because they were something very special, but because these amino acids were so abundant in food, that the human body evolved without the need to synthesize them. IOW, this terminology of "essential amino acids" is a canard.

I've been meaning to confirm (or negate) the above claim with my own research, but haven't got around to it so far. Anybody who wants to, please go ahead.

The essential amino acids are:

Histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine.

Please take some plant food (bananas are one of the most protein deficient), assume a 2000 calorie daily dietary requirement. How many bananas would one have to consume per day to get those calories? How many mg of each of the above acids does a banana contain, and thus, how many mg would one get, consuming only bananas every day? What is the daily requirement of each of these amino acids (in mg)?

Thus, what fraction of the daily requirement of each amino acid would one fulfill, eating only bananas? Which one is fulfilled the least (in terms of %age)? This one would be the limiting amino acid for banana consumption. What is the fractional fulfillment of this limiting amino acid? The article claims it is over 60% (i.e., one would still be about 40% deficient in that amino acid, eating only bananas every day).

Consuming bananas and lentils, from the point of view of "essential amino acids" alone, one would do just fine. Of course, this would be a bad idea from the point of view of an overall balanced diet. But the point made in the article is - the "essential" amino acids - AREN'T. They are widely available in most foods (including the most protein-deficient plant foods). And anybody who meets their daily calorie requirements from a reasonably varied diet, is extremely unlikely to be deficient in those amino acids.

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Re: Personal Health, Nutrition and Fitness Thread

Postby sudarshan » 06 Mar 2021 22:28

Meat eaters also say - "why is killing a plant for food any better than killing an animal?"

If you can bear to kill it yourself for your food, then go ahead and eat it. Does gathering grain from a rice field traumatize you to the same extent as killing a cow or goat? How about plucking fruits, or gathering them off the ground? Or even gathering potatoes or greens? Do you feel bad about it, as you would if you chopped off a goat's head? I can look a rice plant in the eye and tell it "I'm going to gather rice from you" and then go ahead and do it, guilt-free. Can you look a cow or goat in the eye, brandish your axe, and tell it "you've had it buddy," and then go ahead and do it, guilt-free?

If the answer is - "I don't feel bad killing a chicken or goat either" - then go ahead. Just don't come along telling me that I'm as guilty as you are for traumatizing plants instead of animals. I don't feel that way, and I'm going by how I feel, not how you feel or how you think I should feel. I'm not going to fall for that "you don't feel guilty doing that to plants because you're a hypocrite, you *should* feel guilty." And I'm never the one doing the guilt-tripping, you (meat eater) are, telling me a. I'm going to die early for not eating right; b. I'm a hypocrite; c. "Just trying to understand why you eat that way"; d. I'm explaining myself to you so that you don't go guilt-tripping me like you vegetarians always do (after first starting the conversation when I was minding my own business!). Generations of Indians have done just fine on a vegetarian diet, so there's something to it.


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