The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

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Suraj
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The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Suraj »

Day 1

Archery Mixed Team did well to make it to quarterfinal where they ran into the brick wall named Korea. Still creditable to lose 2-4 . They beat the very strong Taiwan team en route.

Hockey Mens Team won 3-2 against New Zealand in their first match.

India women (Elavenil Valariven and Apurvi Chandela) both failed to make the final in the 10m air rifle event . They've lost form since their hot streak in 2019-20.

Mirabai Chanu wins the expected silver in 49 kg weightlifting with a combined 202kg (87+115). Snatch remains her weaker discipline, partly due to her persistent back issue. Kudos to her for staying strongly on form to perform as expected. Her and the Chinese gold medalist were far ahead of the field.

Saurabh Chaudhry is in the final of the 10m air pistol event, as the top qualifier. Abhishek Verma didn't make the cut. Unfortunately Saurabh did poorly in the final to finish 7th of 8 finalists. He gets to pair up with Manu Bhaker in the 10m mixed team event.

Shooters are clearly badly underperforming. The delay in the Games has affected them a lot, given their hot form in 2019-20.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by SBajwa »

So far we expected way too much from our athletes. Whatever they get us is bonus. We all have to get involved to fix amateur sports in India. Professional sports and/or any hint of money we will be chewed up by the babus.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Suraj »

Weak performance from both the men’s 10m air rifle and women’s 10m air pistol qualification . Not a single finalist .

It’s clear the shooters are woefully out of form. Any more medals will come from effort based sports and not precision ones. Even though India has the best mixed teams in both 10m air pistol and rifle, I don’t expect them to be in contention given how poor they are right now. Quite a fall from 2019-20 when all 6 events seemed strong medal hopes.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Supratik »

They are not out of form. In 2021 also they will likely be shooting world champions. It is Olympic pressure. Being an Olympic champion is equivalent to winning the Nobel prize in sports. This young squad needs sports psychologists to train them to handle the pressure.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by tandav »

Mens Hockey India lost 7-1 to the Aussies. I guess its back to the drawing board in terms of improving baseline athletic ability starting with our school system. Our athletics funnel is pathetic. In the Pandemic all the sports facilities were closed and now kids are staying at home with no athletic outlets.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by SriKumar »

Tend to agree with Supratik in that the issue might be something other than ‘form’ for all competitors to go off kilter at the same time, in a sport that is individual in nature. It is puzzling. Maybe the pressure got to them or something to do with Covid restrictions etc.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by AkshaySG »

SBajwa wrote:So far we expected way too much from our athletes. Whatever they get us is bonus. We all have to get involved to fix amateur sports in India. Professional sports and/or any hint of money we will be chewed up by the babus.
I don't think so... Its not like we are expecting to win golds in Track & Field, Rowing, Swimming etc but for events like Wrestling, Shooting, Boxing, Badminton etc it is perfectly normal to expect some medals

These are events in which we regularly win world Cups/Championships and other international tournaments but for some reason when it comes to the Olympics the performance dips be it due to the stage fright or the extra competition or pressure.


Yes sporting infra needs to be built from the ground up but it is also a fact that Indian athletes underperform at the Olympics based on their world rankings/performances.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by SriKumar »

There is Olympic experience. Abhinav Bindra won a gold in Beijing even with his pistol sight tampered with (or it was some other shooter but it was tampered with during a break in competition in Beijing). Somehow that experience has been lost. Reminds me of Indian batting collapses but it is puzzling in an individual sport. Some mental stuff here.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by sum »

Supratik wrote:They are not out of form. In 2021 also they will likely be shooting world champions. It is Olympic pressure. Being an Olympic champion is equivalent to winning the Nobel prize in sports. This young squad needs sports psychologists to train them to handle the pressure.
Archery is the best example of that. Every olympics we will talk about the pre-olympics medals we snap up all over the world and suddenly, at the olympics all will fall away within the initial rounds
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Jarita »

SBajwa wrote:So far we expected way too much from our athletes. Whatever they get us is bonus. We all have to get involved to fix amateur sports in India. Professional sports and/or any hint of money we will be chewed up by the babus.
Actually instead of not expecting from our athletes and blaming the babus, we need to stop aggrandizing our so called star athletes. I believe that even a single medal we make athletes gods and have a cult of personality. Sports in India is a cult of personality. The smallest recognition gets them big rewards and endorsements and they end up focused more on appearance and recognition. The fire goes off. Besides their connections, prevent competition from breaking through. This is where bureaucracy comes in. Why must we see the same faces again and again. Let the competition come through. Start firing coaches and consigning failed athletes to the sidelines till they demonstrate capability nationally against newbies.
People stop others from pulling down failed athletes and their coaches because of past laurels (they did Xyz a few years ago). It’s high time we stopped this. There has to be a fear of consequences too. And some of these old hats hold on to precious places at the expense of better new athletes. We need to start afresh every single year.
And why must we give land and jobs etc after some local
Game. Stop with early rewards. Athletes should be comfortable but not rewarded early. Some of these star athletes don’t even pick up a glass of water on own.
Please treat sports the way we treat academics. We have super competition in academics and rewards come with great accomplishments. With our great population we can have the same in sports.

There has to be some fear of consequences. Will these failures lose endorsements and the gifts. Do you think any of the poorer countries get ahead without that fear? The entire hockey team needs to face the consequences and the coach needs to be fired.

Two big things that are going wrong. The selection process which is where the babus and associations are biased and making money and the early and permanent rewards.
With our population, even with limited infrastructure, with our population we should be winning. Stop celebrating losses and start taking away rewards. These are a not permanent benefits.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Deans »

Jarita wrote: Actually instead of not expecting from our athletes and blaming the babus, we need to stop aggrandizing our so called star athletes. I believe that even a single medal we make athletes gods and have a cult of personality. Sports in India is a cult of personality. The smallest recognition gets them big rewards and endorsements and they end up focused more on appearance and recognition. The fire goes off. Besides their connections, prevent competition from breaking through. This is where bureaucracy comes in. Why must we see the same faces again and again. Let the competition come through. Start firing coaches and consigning failed athletes to the sidelines till they demonstrate capability nationally against newbies.
People stop others from pulling down failed athletes and their coaches because of past laurels (they did Xyz a few years ago). It’s high time we stopped this. There has to be a fear of consequences too. And some of these old hats hold on to precious places at the expense of better new athletes. We need to start afresh every single year.
And why must we give land and jobs etc after some local
Game. Stop with early rewards. Athletes should be comfortable but not rewarded early. Some of these star athletes don’t even pick up a glass of water on own.
Please treat sports the way we treat academics. We have super competition in academics and rewards come with great accomplishments. With our great population we can have the same in sports.
I have a different take. We don't have spoilt star athletes - except in Cricket.
The life of a sportsperson is very limited and chances of success (at a point where you make some money) low. Sportspeople deserve what they
earn. People in their communities look upon them as role models which is what will build sport in India.
In individual sports you can't have sportspeople selected on the basis of past performances, because there are not just qualifying standards but
some internal competition for places on offer. It can happen in team sports but the problem there is lack of options. If we don't like the performance of our hockey team, how many of us can name alternate players who we believe, on the basis of their performance, that they would be better ? For that matter, in women's cricket. we have no alternative to Mithali Raj and Jhulan Goswami who are both nearing 40.
We have actually had a caviler attitude to coaches (hockey had a new coach each year). The larger problem is a lack of qualified coaches (or referees, or even sports teachers) in India.
There isn't a strong domestic league (in many sports, no domestic competition) where competition creates better performances and identifies more talent.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

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Deleted a duplicate post.
Last edited by Deans on 26 Jul 2021 18:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Supratik »

While I can understand the disappointment at not getting those shooting medals we don't need to go overboard with criticism. Remember we had the same problem in the shooting world championships where we wouldn't win many medals till we aced it starting roughly from 2017. These are world champions in their teens and early twenties. It is just we haven't aced Olympic shooting yet. I will blame the support staff more for not preparing them. Shooting and badminton has really taken off in India. The next challenge in India is to produce champions year after year as the sporting superpowers do. That is going to hit us pretty soon in shooting and badminton.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Suraj »

Until about 2017, our shooters did as well in the Olympics as they did in any world level competition - sporadically . Since 2017, the shooting team has progressively improved stature dramatically , culminating in 2019 when they dominated the world circuit .

In each of the just concluded events we have a WR holder, multiple World Cup gold winner or both . Nearly all of them are just teens or just out of teens . Kids like Manu Bhaker and Saurabh Chaudhry are in fact amongst the most decorated World Cup winners in shooting history , any they just turned 20 .

To me the problem is form and conditioning . They just don’t have the level they had thru 2020 right now . The Iranian who won Saurabhs event in fact just peaked in the recent world cups this year .

It’s also true that it’s very hard to guarantee medals in precision sports . There are just too many variables , even for robotic training to overcome . We do have strong boxing and wrestling medal hopes, but I hoped for 2 shooting golds this time - both in the mixed events . However given the form the team is showing now , I don’t see that happening anymore . The mixed events are both tomorrow .
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by sum »

Women's archery team win ninth consecutive gold medal
For the Korean archers, winning a gold medal at the Olympics is practically a given. Korea has now claimed 25 of the 36 golds awarded in the sport since 1984.

The women's team has been especially dominant, winning every gold medal since the 1988 Seoul Olympics. Those nine medals tie the record for the most medals any country has won at consecutive Olympics in a single discipline, alongside the United States in the men's 400 meters swimming and the Kenyan athletics team.

The archery team will continue its hunt for gold on Monday at 1:45 p.m. with the men's team quarterfinals where Kim Je-deok, Kim Woo-jin and Oh Jin-hyek will show off their shooting skills.
Truly amazing as to how they create a aura about themselves and live up to it without fail every single time.

Was seeing the Mixed event where a 17 yr and 20 yr old trashed India in the quarters and easily wrapped gold.
Amazing mental toughness to live upto the pressure and expectations

Why is S. Korea so good at archery? Athletes find answer in transparency, internal competition

TOKYO, July 26 (Yonhap) -- South Korea has dominated archery in the Olympics the way few other countries have in other sports.

South Korea leads everyone with 26 gold medals, including two over the first two days of competition at the Tokyo Olympics this month. South Korea won the inaugural gold medal in the mixed team event Saturday and then captured its ninth consecutive gold medal in the women's team event Sunday.

...........

Theories abound, and gold medalists in Tokyo say it's due to transparency in national team selection, and the internal competition that ensures the survival of only the cream of the crop.

Meritocracy is an ideal concept that doesn't always apply to sports. Nepotism and favoritism can sneak their way into the picture. Maybe a coach likes a certain athlete more than another, or the coach has that ever-ambiguous gut feeling that one athlete will outperform others.

There's no room for that in South Korean archery.

"I think we have a transparent selection process," said An San, the double gold medalist from the mixed team and women's team events.

To further elaborate: When the Tokyo Olympics were postponed by a year in March 2020, the Korea Archery Association (KAA) was still in the midst of the multistage Olympic trials. Once the calendar flipped to 2021, the KAA didn't simply give out Olympic spots to those in position to qualify in 2020. Wanting to ensure the best archers of 2021, not 2020, would represent the country in Tokyo, the national governing body staged the Olympic trials from scratch.

An, along with Kang Chae-young and Jang Min-hee, survived the national team trials gauntlet often described as more difficult than the Olympics, given the depth of South Korea's archery talent. It's become a cliche, but it's not entirely wrong either.

"In Olympic trials, we compete against archers who are extremely close to one another in terms of talent level," Kang said. "And because we go through so many rounds in the trials, we don't get jitters any more. Archers can get nervous competing at the Olympics, but if they think about how they made it through the Olympic trials, then they should be just fine."

The archers also thanked the KAA for creating a training environment conducive to success in the Olympics, literally.

The KAA built a replica of the Olympic venue, Yumenoshima Park Archery Field, inside the Jincheon National Training Center in Jincheon, about 90 kilometers south of Seoul. And to prepare the archers against windy conditions in Tokyo, the KAA set up another training facility on a southwestern island.

"They built an Olympic-like environment for us, and we trained like we were competing in the Olympics," Kang said. "Lights never went out at our training site."
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

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Bhavani Devi bowed out of the Fencing second round against World No. 3 Monon Brunet of France.
She becomes the first Indian fencer to qualify for the Olympics and to win a first round match
From bamboo sticks to fencing! Story of Bhavani Devi https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/hi/news ... -exclusive
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by SBajwa »

I think if in each city (and 2-nd tier city) local businesses are roped in to sponsor local sports it will do wonders. Government should only be involved in laws around sports, drug testing, etc. Just look at BCCI which does not cares about sports ministry and thus they are a success.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Supratik »

Govt. is already setting up 1000 Khelo India centers of excellence. The first dozen or so have been inaugurated. Idea is to cover each district with these centers. Each center will have infra for a few sports. They also have started the Khelo India games for school children. Both very good initiatives. However, such initiatives have a gestation period provided they are pursued seriously. Overall so far except shooting and the men's hockey drubbing we are going along expected lines.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

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Also do we have the talent pool for coaches who can create champions? Not yet in many sports. That is why we need sports universities so that coaching becomes a professional career. Right now we have ex-players passing for coaches or with some certifications who may not have the capacity to make champions. We have a few rare coaches like Gopichand but I am talking about grass root level coaching.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by rsingh »

13-14 year old teen win gold in scating. What is use of training 20 players to win one medal (after many rounds) in hockey? Girls of 16 years win multiple medals in dancing (with lil bit gymnastics. Horrible. We have to train such teens. Forget Hockey. It is dead. Our players can not compete with steroid rich western players. JMT
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Vivek K »

A shame that a country of 1.4 billion people does not have the vision to improve its standing in athletics. Must develop focus on individual sport and re-structure national championships. The system is overlooking talent and that needs to be fixed. It is not possible that there aren't talented athletes/swimmers/gymnasts in such a large population.
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Post by Supratik »

Talent alone cannot make you champions if there is no ecosystem.
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Post by VenkataS »

There should be a funnel system for athletes right from school level -> district level -> state level -> national level -> international level. I agree with above post Talent alone is useless unless there is an ecosystem which can nurture and fine tune that talent. We do not have the luxury of investing like the Chinese did to upgrade their sports infrastructure as we have multiple competing things for a limited budget (which is lower than it should be for a nation with 3T economy because of Tax evasion by many).

The investments should start from the grassroots school level and percolate up. Right now we do not have the infrastructure at the grassroots to percolate talent up (this means decent facilities for every school which has at least 1000-5000 enrolled students) at least one major sports complex in every district in the country.

Badminton, Table Tennis where we have a decent national interest plus a few other sports where there is a chance for multiple medals should be focused.

We should have competitions with spectator/TV interest and the possibility of making decent money for athletes even in domestic circuit. If athletes can make decent money competing in domestic circuits coupled with grassroots infrastructure we will start to see strong domestic competition and
a little more success at the international events like the Asian games and olympics.

Until this happens we will continue to be disappointed every 4 years and forget about the Olympics until the next one rolls around.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Suraj »

There are three kinds of Olympic sports:
1. Individual or large team events, with just a single medal on offer at the end. These are the least bang for the buck. More than a dozen people playing over a week for one medal it a lot of effort for too little. Badminton is an example, or hockey.
2. Individual or small team events with no variety: For example weightlifting. There's no variety because the same person can't do multiple categories. However, the effort level required is low. There are just 6 lifts to do. It's all about being conditioned enough to do it.
3. Individual or small team events with variety: Swimming is a notable case here but there are others. Even archery counts since the same players can be in individual, mens/womens and mixed teams.

To maximize medals needs strength in the last two. It seemed we could do it in shooting, but these Olympics have been poor in that sport so far. There's still boxing and wrestling, which are both between categories 1 and 2 - short enough per match but at least 3-4 matches per medal. Unless you're the top seed like Amit Panghal in boxing - two wins for him will get him a medal.

So far we have been building strength in the right way - focusing more on sports with more medal options. But there are a lot of medal rich sports (swimming, gymnastics, rowing/sailing) where we are not competitive yet. It will require intense focus with capability in these sports to guarantee % golds/games. We're getting there, but not close enough yet.

Less time/effort/variables matter because you can control the outcome better . A large team game with many rounds is the least controllable setting. More medals means mastery over controllable sports with multiple medal potential .
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by S_Madhukar »

In case of South Korea as a fun fact they also have Kpop Idol Olympics where the various artist groups compete and the events are telecast live. It’s all good fun but That just shows the penetration of sport… compare that to our Bolly types who pose on Instagram but doubt can run a mile. Of course with their economy their sports infrastructure is quite good. Most guys have army experience and importance of physical fitness is drilled in. and they have maintained links with traditional sports like taekwondo, hapkido, Go,archery etc. It’s interesting that the average South Korean or Japanese for that matter is still not the most athletic but they focus and invest well on their champions.
Sports of some kind should be part of the culture. We haven’t made wrestling, mallakhamb, archery, chess etc. as much a part of our social fabric as it probably was in ancient time
It goes hand in hand with the other issues in the nation where we probably thought cricket is more civilised than kushti. And then we hanker after western sports with negligible investment and effort.
I would hope if the Hockey team didn’t do well this time they should have a moratorium on them participating unless they win the next World Cup … same for other sports. Walk before we run. We should rather compete in small numbers and increase ROI
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

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rsingh wrote:13-14 year old teen win gold in scating. What is use of training 20 players to win one medal (after many rounds) in hockey? Girls of 16 years win multiple medals in dancing (with lil bit gymnastics. Horrible. We have to train such teens. Forget Hockey. It is dead. Our players can not compete with steroid rich western players. JMT
What do you mean steroid rich?
If you don’t know how the sport is organised at the grass roots in a country like AU please find out. There is a reason they produce champs and steroids is not it.
Better to admit you don’t know….
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Tokyo Olympics 2020: Indian debacle shocks shooting fraternity, NRAI boss talks of 'overhaul'
TOKYO: The Indian shooting federation on Tuesday promised an "overhaul" of the coaching staff after the 15-strong contingent's Olympic campaign moved from one disaster to another here, the sport trending for all the wrong reasons, including intra-squad factionalism.
As the country's shooters continued to belie expectations with their horror show here, reliving the Rio 2016 debacle, the head of the sport's national governing body promised a major revamp in coaching and support staff.
"Definitely the performances have not been on expected lines and I have spoken of an overhaul of coaching and support staff," National Rifle Association of India (NRAI) Raninder Singh told PTI.
He was speaking after the rifle and pistol shooters failed to clear the qualification stages of the mixed team events, leaving the followers of the sport dejected.

Pair of Saurabh Chaudhary and Manu Bhaker failed to qualify for the medal match in the 10m Air Pistol Mixed Team event after finishing the Qualification stage 2 at the seventh spot here at the Asaka Shooting - 10m Range. Chaudhary and Bhaker shot a total of 380 in Qualification stage 2 and hence

Questions are being raised about why the shooters were not able to replicate their excellent showing at the ISSF World Cups at the Olympics.
"I feel something is lacking in getting our shooters prepared for these big occasions, because clearly the talent is there and we have seen it here as well," the NRAI boss said.
He said the federation and other stakeholders concerned did everything they could to help prepare the shooters for the Games, including implementing the recommendations of the panel led by Olympic champion Abhinav Bindra after the disastrous medal-less campaign in Rio de Janeiro five years ago.
The NRAI got former India shooter and coach Ronak Pandit to train medal hope Manu Bhaker after she fell out with junior national coach Jaspal Rana, and the president said he tried to sort things out between the two of them.
However, he added that not all is still lost for the Indian shooting team as it is left with a few more starts.
"Having said that we still have starts left and let's continue to back the team and I am sure we'll get results. Postmortems can wait till after the Games," Raninder said.
The Indians found it hard to believe that their shooters failed to finish on the podium in the mixed team events, considered the country's best bet prior to the Games.
The pair of Saurabh Chaudhary and Bhaker caved in under pressure and failed to qualify for the final of the 10m air pistol mixed team events, finishing seventh in Qualification 2 after topping the first phase with 582 at the Asaka Range.
They lost the plot completely when the top eight teams battled it out in the second phase.
The other Indian team in the event, Abhishek Verma and Yashaswini Singh Deswal, failed to clear Qualification 1 and finished in 17th place.
Later in the day, the two Indian pairs participating in the 10m air rifle mixed team event too crashed out in the first qualifications stage.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

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ks_sachin wrote:
rsingh wrote:13-14 year old teen win gold in scating. What is use of training 20 players to win one medal (after many rounds) in hockey? Girls of 16 years win multiple medals in dancing (with lil bit gymnastics. Horrible. We have to train such teens. Forget Hockey. It is dead. Our players can not compete with steroid rich western players. JMT
What do you mean steroid rich?
If you don’t know how the sport is organised at the grass roots in a country like AU please find out. There is a reason they produce champs and steroids is not it.
Better to admit you don’t know….
Do not fool yourself. I am not saying that they are injected with steroids. Have you seen their diets. Heavy meat based diet and protein rich regime make them strong as if they are on steroids. Fried food and spices are unheard-of. .I was on steroids temporarily and I know what kind of diet I had to maintain to keep the momentum. These things are maintained properly. Have you seen European and American swimmers? You practice whole day and you are fed like animals in their last days .
En plus please inform yourself about steroids. How long steroids can be detected in blood. What class of steroids? Prescription steroids? Or some new class which is not detectable. Blood transfusion? I take Medrol class every 3-4 year for sarcoidosis. It changes my life and keeps me in shape. It is not traceable in blood. I am telling you according to my personal experience. Rest may be I do not know somethings. It is possible.
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ks_sachin wrote:
rsingh wrote:13-14 year old teen win gold in scating. What is use of training 20 players to win one medal (after many rounds) in hockey? Girls of 16 years win multiple medals in dancing (with lil bit gymnastics. Horrible. We have to train such teens. Forget Hockey. It is dead. Our players can not compete with steroid rich western players. JMT
What do you mean steroid rich?
If you don’t know how the sport is organised at the grass roots in a country like AU please find out. There is a reason they produce champs and steroids is not it.
Better to admit you don’t know….
we are the ghai ghass variety onlee.

our guys are completely out of their depth on astroturf.

we dominated in the field hockey days, never ever in the astroturf days

our cowboys never moved on from the dhyan chand syndrome of individualized performances
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Post by rsingh »

Am hearing this astroturf thing since Asiad in Delhi. I think we have moved on and astroturf is a common thing these days.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by SBajwa »

Indian Men hockey team defeats Spain 3-0

Indian hockey team is on the rise and is currently rated as #4.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Suraj »

The hockey men's team are doing ok so far. They tend to have bad defeats against the muscular style of the Aussies regularly, often because they try to 'play a defensive game' - the best way to take on Aussies historically has always been to play an equally muscular counterattacking game. Their remaining matches are against Argentina and Japan. They could win both, which would have them finish second and face the Group B #3. The other group is a lot more competitive, with Belgium clear #1, and Germany, Netherlands and GB competing for the remaining three places.

The shooting team is clearly out of form and there is a major coaching issue going on whose details are not clear. This great article lays out the level of underperformance, some of which is just shocking, e.g Divyansh hasn't shot this bad since he was a junior three years ago: data analysis of shooters' performance.

There seems to be some sort of coaching feud involving Heena Sidhu, Jaspal Rana and others. Twitter has some small snippets of it, with each one pointing fingers at others. The details are irrelevant here and it's not worth supporters' time to try to parse the details. The Olympics are a stage where great tales of courage and redemption are written. Unfortunately not in our case.
ks_sachin
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by ks_sachin »

rsingh wrote:
ks_sachin wrote: What do you mean steroid rich?
If you don’t know how the sport is organised at the grass roots in a country like AU please find out. There is a reason they produce champs and steroids is not it.
Better to admit you don’t know….
Do not fool yourself. I am not saying that they are injected with steroids. Have you seen their diets. Heavy meat based diet and protein rich regime make them strong as if they are on steroids. Fried food and spices are unheard-of. .I was on steroids temporarily and I know what kind of diet I had to maintain to keep the momentum. These things are maintained properly. Have you seen European and American swimmers? You practice whole day and you are fed like animals in their last days .
En plus please inform yourself about steroids. How long steroids can be detected in blood. What class of steroids? Prescription steroids? Or some new class which is not detectable. Blood transfusion? I take Medrol class every 3-4 year for sarcoidosis. It changes my life and keeps me in shape. It is not traceable in blood. I am telling you according to my personal experience. Rest may be I do not know somethings. It is possible.
My nephew was playing district level hockey in NSW with some of the people who were on the fringes of AU selection so have an Idea. He eats eats normal food by the way like you and I.
The thing is these kids are playing on Astro from the time they pick up a stick. Talent identification happens by the time you are 11 or 12 ….
You also touched upon Astro being common…I don’t know what the situation is now in India but I am not how widespread…but it is also about mentality. The Aussies seem to have this I ate belief that they will win whereas we don’t have that winning mentality…
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by arshyam »

Is this kind of post-award testing routine?

Mirabai's silver to be upgraded into gold? Weightlifter Zhihui Hou to be tested by anti-doping authorities - ANI via TNIE
China weightlifter Zhihui Hou who bagged gold in the Tokyo Olympics on Saturday, will be tested by anti-doping authorities and if she fails the test, India's Mirabai Chanu will be awarded gold.

"She has been asked to stay in Tokyo and the test will be done. The test is definitely happening," a source in the know of developments told ANI. <snip>
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by arshyam »

Suraj wrote:There seems to be some sort of coaching feud involving Heena Sidhu, Jaspal Rana and others. Twitter has some small snippets of it, with each one pointing fingers at others. The details are irrelevant here and it's not worth supporters' time to try to parse the details.
Here's an example in case anyone is interested:

Manika Batra refusing national coach's help is act of indiscipline: Table Tennis Federation of India - TNIE

Not posting the article - was just reminded of the line by a commentator in the film "Chak De India" - "phir wahi puraani baat" - he'll say this about competition between two hockey stars while on the field, to the detriment of the national team. Looks like that sentiment is alive and kicking.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by arshyam »

If true, some heads should roll, given that shooting was one of our major hopes and an issue like this breaks the focus of the participant.

We were there to give professional help to Manu Bhaker but no one approached us: Gun manufacturer - TNIE
NEW DELHI: A day after India's pistol shooter Manu Bhaker developed a technical snag in her weapon during the women's 10m air pistol competition at the Tokyo Olympic Games on Sunday -- which put paid to her hopes of qualifying for the finals -- the manufacturer of the gun said that his outlet was close at hand and still no one approached him from the Indian camp for help.

Manu developed a snag in her pistol in the second series after she had shot a superb 98 in the first series. The malfunction resulted in a time lapse of nearly 18 minutes, and under time constraint, the Indian shot three consecutive poor series to miss out on a possible berth in the eight-shooter finals, finishing 12th.

In a series of social media posts since early morning, Francesco Repich from Swiss gun-manufacturing company Morini -- a pistol used by several Indians including Manu, Saurabh Chaudhary and Abhishek Verma, among others - said that had professional help been sought, the pistol could have been repaired quickly.

Repich also said that the Indian coaches refused 'sighting shots' when the judge asked them if they wanted to check the pistol after repair.

"Today (Monday), we had the opportunity to speak with the Indonesian judge who dealt with the case of Manu Bhaker. The judge also does gun maintenance in his club and therefore knows the problems well," said Repich in his facebook post.

"He (judge) told us the following: 'The (Indian) coaches said the pistol had slightly loosened the charge screw. He followed the athlete and the coach into the room next door where he saw the coach screw the lever back and replace the electronics without knowing why. Time taken about 10 minutes. In his opinion, more qualified people would have taken less (time). In the end he (judge) asked the coach if sighting shots were needed and the answer was no!'" wrote Repich on Monday.

"It does not seem necessary to post a video with the interview with the judge."

Repich also said that he had arrived at the venue on July 22 and was always there early to help out with the repair and maintenance of guns, Indians included, but he was not approached.

"We arrived (in) the (July) 22 in Tokyo. Today (Monday) we arrived at the range at 7:30. Manu has a spare gun with same setting as pistol 1. Now is 13:24 and I have not seen ANY of the indian team until now! The problem is that many coaches thinks they are technician too. When you do mistake it is always easy to give to others instead of taking responsibility of what you do!" wrote Repich.

Repich also said that, "I am very attached to many shooters of the Indian national team. Some are very young (just 19 years old) and have recently moved from junior to senior competitions. This is already a very difficult step for a young person and for this they must be followed and directed because they are not yet trained athletes."

Early on Sunday morning, Repich had also posted a picture of his enclosure at the shooting range on facebook, and wrote, "Morini technical repair place at the Tokyo olympic games. For people that don't know where we are, we are at the left of weapon deposit office!"

Indian pistol coach, Ronak Pandit had issued a statement on Sunday saying that, "The cocking lever of the weapon broke after 16 shots. We had to get it changed. She (Manu) had 44 shots remaining in 56 mins and then when we started it was 44 shots in 38mins. To change the lever, the grip and the trigger circuit has to be removed. They were put back but then the circuit would not work so we had to change that again. She was placed fourth when all this happened and by the time she resumed, others were in their fourth series while she was still on her second. No extra time is allowed according to the rules and the pressure at the end was too much. We are proud of the way she shot."
A bit of he said, she said, and perhaps some offensive defence by the gun manufacturer to head off criticism about a malfunction of their product. But if the judge's quote is accurate, this was a needless self-goal by our contingent in a sport where we had a very strong chance, and lost it due to non-sporting reasons.

Also, are we not allowed to have backup weapons? Cricket batsmen have at least half a dozen bats each, so to tennis players, it's puzzling to read that a malfunctioning weapon has to be repaired instead of being replaced. Per the quote, Manu Baker had another weapon with the same setting (so I assume they don't have to calibrate it during the contest), not sure why they didn't switch to it without wasting time.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by arshyam »

First time we even had an entry in fencing, hope to see more going forward. Bhavani Devi is 27 now, hope she tries for the next Olympics, which would be only 3 years away due to the delay in this edition. This encouragement from the highest authority of the country is encouraging in itself, since this GoI has been providing quality support for a lot of players, including Bhavani Devi, and I hope the focus is increased going forward. For the next Olympics, we should aim at having one or more additional entries for fencing - as pointed out above, most medal winning countries game the system by trying to have multiple competitors in these individual sports.

You gave your best and this is all that counts: PM Modi to fencer Bhavani after her loss at Olympics - TNIE
C A Bhavani Devi @IamBhavaniDevi
Big Day

It was Excitement & Emotional.
I won the First Match 15/3 against Nadia Azizi and become the First INDIAN Fencing Player to win a Match at Olympic but 2nd Match I lost 7/15 against world top 3 player Manon Brunet. I did my level best but couldn't win.

I am sorry
Narendra Modi @narendramodi
You gave your best and that is all that counts.

Wins and losses are a part of life.

India is very proud of your contributions. You are an inspiration for our citizens.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by Suraj »

There's no point in focusing on the issuance of blame. It's clear the shooting team did extremely poorly at preparing for the event on multiple counts:
1. the ongoing feud between Bhaker and Jaspal Rana that has been on since May-June before they left for Croatia.
2. clearly weak technical management of the weapons. Bindra's issue years ago should have resulted in something like that never happening again, but no - we have amateur hour here, and regardless of who should have done something, there ought to have been a game plan to fix any contingency - spare weapons, a clear procedural mechanism or anything else.
3. poor handling of the psychological conditioning of our juniors. After their world dominating 2019 season and even 2021 season it was critical to manage their preparation carefully so that they went into the OGs with a strong positive frame of mind. But it's clear the coaching and support staff failed badly.

We had among the best shooters in the world in SIX events, every one of which could have been at least one medal. In the mixed events in particular, we dominated the world circuit recently: in the 2019 World Cup season, every single leg shows "Gold: Manu Bhaker/Saurabh Chaudhry". All our shooters have beaten all of those who won medals in this Olympics, often multiple times. The Chinese, Russians, Americans... they're all probably perplexed as to why the scary Indians imploded like this. In fact Bhaker and Chaudhry beat the OG gold medalists Pang Wei/Jiang Ranxin in the final of the mixed team event in their own home World Cup in Beijing.
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Re: The Tokyo Olympic Games Thread

Post by AshishA »

The process of making a Olympic level sportsman starts at early school level. Our school level infrastructure and university level infrastructure is not upto the mark. High school and university level competitions are taken very seriously in Japan, South Korea, China, US and Australia. And there is world class supporting infrastructure for the same.

We were also struggling in cricket due to the lack of nurturing of talent from under 19 level. That changed when dravid became head coach of under 19 team and then the national cricket academy.

I think we have plenty of talent. But the nurturing of that talent needs a lot of work.
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