India's Contribution to Science & Technology

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Bade
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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 09 Dec 2015 00:05

http://news.fnal.gov/2015/11/pip-ii-renewing-fermilabs-accelerator-complex/
PIP-II will allow physicists to accelerate more protons and help them achieve higher energy over a shorter distance. The project will involve retiring Fermilab’s 400-MeV copper linac and building a new 800-MeV superconducting radio-frequency linac as well as replacing the beam transport to the Booster. There will also be upgrades to the laboratory’s Booster, Main Injector and Recycler.

The most ambitious part of the PIP-II upgrade will be the new 800-MeV linear accelerator, which will be built in the infield of the decommissioned Tevatron accelerator and take advantage of significant existing accelerator infrastructure at Fermilab. The location will provide access to existing utilities, while allowing construction to proceed independent of ongoing accelerator operations and retaining possibilities for upgrade paths down the road. The linac design also provides an option for continuous-wave operations, which means delivery of an uninterrupted, rather than pulsed, stream of particles, providing physicists with more beam for other experiments, such as Mu2e.

A large part of this effort involves an international collaboration with India. The Department of Atomic Energy in India has offered to contribute hardware in exchange for the experience of building high-intensity superconducting radio-frequency proton linacs, which they hope to construct in their own country.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Dec 2015 05:57

Some seemingly good news.

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2015/ ... ch-funding


The report says that ‘India’s biggest strengths are the quality of its most elite scientific institutions’, adding that in chemistry India’s top institutions ‘stand up to be counted among the world’s top ranks’. The Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) rank 24th globally in 2014 on a weighted basis in chemistry, compared with the University of Cambridge in the UK at 20th and Osaka University in Japan at 25th. India’s Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) is 30th. On a weighted basis, India ranks ninth globally in chemistry. ‘There is little doubt that of all the subjects, India seems to be doing best in chemistry and materials science,’ Rao says.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby suryag » 19 Dec 2015 20:26


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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby KLP Dubey » 20 Dec 2015 14:06

sanjaykumar wrote:Some seemingly good news.

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2015/ ... ch-funding


The report says that ‘India’s biggest strengths are the quality of its most elite scientific institutions’, adding that in chemistry India’s top institutions ‘stand up to be counted among the world’s top ranks’. The Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) rank 24th globally in 2014 on a weighted basis in chemistry, compared with the University of Cambridge in the UK at 20th and Osaka University in Japan at 25th. India’s Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) is 30th. On a weighted basis, India ranks ninth globally in chemistry. ‘There is little doubt that of all the subjects, India seems to be doing best in chemistry and materials science,’ Rao says.


I agree with most of this report, especially the need to identify "elite" institutions and focus research funding in these places. India has an opportunity to "get it right" in science funding like China has.

The US has no proper goal-oriented classification of universities into research-worthy and the rest. There is a useless system in which every state has a bunch of wannabe research institutions trying to get their hands on federal funding dollars. For example, there is no reason for states like Mississippi or Alabama to be doing research in more than 1 or 2 universities. It worked OK when there was no competition from Asia and money was plentiful. Now it is a drag on the entire system.

In China there is a clear classification of "Project 985" and "Project 211" universities which specifically get large amounts of funding. This program has worked phenomenally well in focusing advanced science and also in attracting Chinese-origin researchers back to China from the US and Europe.

India urgently needs a similar program to consolidate research efforts and channel talent into effective groups/locations rather than wasting it through random diffusion.

Separately, another focused program (PM NaMo's "skill development" plan) needs to be rolled out to provide massive resources to better-quality practical education and vocational training in other institutions.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby csaurabh » 20 Dec 2015 16:37

KLP Dubey wrote:
The US has no proper goal-oriented classification of universities into research-worthy and the rest. There is a useless system in which every state has a bunch of wannabe research institutions trying to get their hands on federal funding dollars. For example, there is no reason for states like Mississippi or Alabama to be doing research in more than 1 or 2 universities. It worked OK when there was no competition from Asia and money was plentiful. Now it is a drag on the entire system.


Unfortunately we already have this system. Now every random local college claims to be a 'research university' complete with masses of papers and fake conferences... ( almost none of it is authentic, as they have neither any facilities nor capable faculty. They are just plagiarised American papers with slight alterations ).. The scam is getting bigger..

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby NRao » 20 Dec 2015 18:47

Why would you need a classification?

In fact, the fact that there is no classification drives innovation. Nations like China, predictably, stagnate. Japan too.

Economics 101.

Which is why even when the US stumbles, it recovers relatively easily. Plenty of NRIs are thriving, some on BR too. They could never duplicate that in India, China or Japan.

As far as India is concerned the best route is to get people on the path of Satya. Accounting and accountability.

In China there is a clear classification of "Project 985" and "Project 211" universities which specifically get large amounts of funding.


Would hate that in the US. Just no way.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 20 Dec 2015 19:09

Agree with NRao that diffusion is good, as long as quality is maintained. No amount of policing is going to improve quality. India's experiment with centralized research has not benefited as claimed, though I can understand why it began that way due to scarcity of resources.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby NRao » 20 Dec 2015 19:52

[Heavy duty OT, but needed IMHO]

due to scarcity of resources


Nope.

In 1920-30 the then Congress party (I think it was called something else then, but had the same players - Nehru, Gandhi, etc) had actually borrowed the Soviets 5 year plan. However, they not being communists they modified it to suite their own thinking/needs. So, they did have "farms" (as the Soviets did), but did not adopt the Soviets military aspects (even though fighting British rule), like using metal only for military purposes, etc.

This 5 year plan still remain AND so does the "planning" cells - they are still there - each Ministry has one attached to it and of course the very famous "Planning Commission". {BTW, both the US (which supported Indian independence - much to teh chagrin of you know who and the UK literally laughed at India, BUT around 50s seeing the progress a democratic India was making with these planning cells, actually adopted the practice. Of course 'Nam war also has a deep influence on the US.)

On resources, India has has no shortage of anything. Everything is hidden or underground, including the economy.



But, I just do not like comparing nations. Cultures are different and they should stand on their own - very silly, childish to compare eating with hands to eating with silverware.

Same goes for universities and funding. I just do not see why India cannot progress as fast as the US even if India were to adopt a totally different method/style/whatever.

On the flip side the US will die if things were imposed on its citizens. Certainly some things are crazy - autos vs. public transport as an example, but univs, just no way. They are perhaps THE most important cog for this nation. I would not trade them for anything else.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby KLP Dubey » 21 Dec 2015 09:30

NRao wrote:Why would you need a classification?

In fact, the fact that there is no classification drives innovation. Nations like China, predictably, stagnate. Japan too.

Economics 101.

Which is why even when the US stumbles, it recovers relatively easily. Plenty of NRIs are thriving, some on BR too. They could never duplicate that in India, China or Japan.

As far as India is concerned the best route is to get people on the path of Satya. Accounting and accountability.

In China there is a clear classification of "Project 985" and "Project 211" universities which specifically get large amounts of funding.


Would hate that in the US. Just no way.


1) This is all very well once you have reached a certain level of advancement. But clusters of excellence are absolutely necessary to get there. China will also scale down these programs once their aims are achieved.

2) Your hypothesis that such "diffused" innovation is the reason for US resilience, is incorrect. Look closely. Scientific advancement is driven by a rather small number of institutions and for reasons entirely different from what you write above. You could take out most "research" universities in ~30 states of the US and still have no adverse impact. In fact the funds and high-performing personnel if redirected to places with a strong R&D ecosystem will have a much larger impact. At the moment is US is hanging narrowly on to its lead *despite* the gross inefficiency in resource allocation, and not because of it.

3) You may personally hate to have such a system, but the NAS and NAE have indirectly been recommending it in various reports since the 1990s. However, this kind of reform has to come from the top since it is not politically correct at lower levels.

4) Having been in academia for a while, I observe these phenomena constantly. Above-average researchers stuck in low-quality places are usually busy applying to join better places, even though they benefit from inefficient resource allocation that sends federal $ to low-quality places. However, the better places can't take them all since they are constrained by the "spread-the-money-around" mentality of government bureaucrats and politicians. The "hub and spoke" model hasn't caught on yet.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby A_Gupta » 05 Jan 2016 18:58

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 447054.cms
"India plans mega cluster for 10-nation telescope project"
India is planning to create an in formation technology (IT), me chanical and electronics cluster as part of the 10-nation telescope project, Square Kilometre Array (SKA), set to finish in 2024. Karnataka will be among the first beneficiaries if the proposal comes through.

The SKA project will see commissioning of the world's largest and most sensitive radio telescope and India will play a major role in it.

While sources in Bengaluru had earlier indicated such a plan, former Planning Commission member K Kasturirangan confirmed it. "Having closely worked with the government, I know a cluster is being planned and IT firms will play a huge role in the project," he said.

"The first phase of the project is the design, which will be completed in 2018. From there the process of building systems, including computer systems and electronics, will begin.We are confident this will be able to deliver what's required," he told TOI on Monday .

The project, in two phases with an estimated cost of Rs 1.5 billion, will be shared by member countries -Australia, Canada, China, India, Italy, New Zealand, South Africa, Sweden, the Netherlands and UK.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 06 Jan 2016 21:39

^^^ More on this from an earlier ToI article...
The SKA is an international effort to build the largest and the most sensitive radio telescope in the world. At present, 10 countries — Australia, Canada, China, India, Italy, Netherlands, New Zealand, South Africa, Sweden and United Kingdom — are involved in the SKA mega-project. It will be a collection of thousands of dishes and radio receivers spread across two sites in Africa and Western Australia.

"Several Indian scientists are working on research areas relevant to SKA. They are gearing up for pursuing cutting edge science with the instrument when it is ready," said Swarna Kanti Ghosh, the centre director of NCRA.

Several cutting edge technologies are being explored and developed to realise the SKA project. The first result is expected from SKA in the early 2020s, when the first phase will be nearing completion.

SKA is expected to address some of the fundamental questions about our Universe. For example, it will look back to a time when the Universe was in its infancy, and is expected to tell us how the first stars and black holes formed and lit up the Universe. In another important project, SKA will use compact astronomical objects like pulsars and black holes to test the limits of Einstein's theory of gravity.

Yashwant Gupta, a scientist at NCRA and the principal investigator for the SKA related effort in India, said: "At present, Indian scientists are leading one of the 10 design work packages for SKA, the Telescope Manager, which will be the brain and the nervous system controlling the entire SKA observatory. This work is being carried out in collaboration with other research organisations and industry partners in India, as well as with six other SKA member nations, with NCRA as the lead organisation."

SKA related activities in India received a major boost recently when the SKA Organisation accorded the status of 'SKA Pathfinder' to the Khodad-based Giant Metrewave Radio Telescope (GMRT, operated by NCRA), recognising the important technical and scientific developments being carried out for upgrading GMRT. It will provide valuable feedback to the teams designing the SKA, as well as excellent opportunities for astronomers to try out science experiments of relevance to their planned quests with the SKA.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Seal-on-India-role-in-Square-Kilometre-Array/articleshow/49236470.cms

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 08 Jan 2016 01:26

:evil: http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indias-plan-to-build-colossal-science-lab-in-tami-nadu-hits-political-roadblock-1248744
Sanctioned by the central government, the lab proposes to make the world's biggest magnet and detector weighing over 52,000 tons which will be able to identify the most elusive of the elementary particles - neutrinos.

But the work on the project was stalled after local politicians in Tamil Nadu and Kerala opposed it. While the scientists have been able to convince Kerala's former Chief Minister V S Achuthanandan to change his stand, firebrand Tamil Nadu politician Vaiko is not in favour. He says the neutrino observatory would be used by scientists to make atomic weapons and store radioactive waste.

There is a reason why we are stuck where we are. :(( :(( The comments section is even more depressing to read.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Vayutuvan » 08 Jan 2016 02:50

Bade: Looks at this statement of Mr. (Dr.?) Trived (excerpted from the above link posted by you):

"The Indian neutrino observatory has the potential to uncover some of the deepest mysteries of the universe and could give us a couple of Nobel Prizes I think. That is why I think we need to go ahead and build this experiment, there is no radioactivity involved, and in fact, neutrinos are so weakly interactive that they hardly affect anything, this is why we need to build such a big detector to even find them," Mr Trivedi said.


Is curiosity the motivating factor or hankering for Nobels? That is depressing too. What happened to (pure) science for (pure) science's sake? This is looking more and more like everybody has a little bit of an agenda here. Hope all the parties are largely motivated by high ideals of pure science - for example "satiating one's curiosity" and "understanding the universe a little more".

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 08 Jan 2016 02:59

I think you are reading too much into it. I know the guy, well tangentially like many others who I have crossed paths and is as level headed as one can get.

How do you convey the idea of science for science sake to the general public...who ask what is in it for them. Well, if some aam aadmi asked me the same question, I would say just the same as he said, as people connect to Nobel prizes and prestige it brings to the nation better than some esoteric idea about understanding the fundamental physics at work. It is no different than the mil-ind complex in the west (and the people here in general) supporting fundamental science as it can help build weapons too.

People are asking for toilets :-( instead, if they can put out what they eat they can as well cover it up themselves, no ?

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Vayutuvan » 08 Jan 2016 03:13

No disrespect to Dr. Trivedi, of course. But people should be educated as to the real reasons pure sci/math research is done. Very few people understand the even in the US and there is need for pretty pictures and all. I wish that message goes out loud and clear rather than "I am going to die with the most toys in my possession. So I win" kind of silly Silicon Valley/Wall Street/Chinese hankering for Olympic Golds message.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 14 Jan 2016 23:01

More on the negative news related to INO.
http://www.nature.com/news/nuclear-rumo ... ry-1.19150

Meanwhile, China expects to complete the Jiangmen Underground Neutrino Observatory in 2019. To remain competitive, the INO must start construction in the next few months, says Mondal. “Science is something you have to do in time. If you are not in time, your results may not be that important.”

But neutrino physicists say that even if the INO loses the race, its findings would help to corroborate discoveries at other detectors. The INO takes a unique approach — using 50,000 tonnes of magnetized iron to separate atmospheric neutrino observations from their antineutrino counterparts. That will make its results interesting whenever they come out, says Mark Messier, a physicist at Indiana University Bloomington and co-spokesperson for the NOvA Neutrino Experiment at Fermilab in Batavia, Illinois, which also has a chance of solving the neutrino-mass mystery.

Researchers point to other benefits, too. Putting a physics laboratory deep underground gives India the opportunity to host research into areas such as dark matter, they say — and it is empowering for Indian scientists to bring a major physics facility to fruition. “Already I’ve seen the tremendous difference it’s made to students having an experiment on which they call the shots,” says Indumathi. “So I really don’t care whether we get a Nobel prize or not.”

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Amber G. » 14 Jan 2016 23:49

Bade wrote:More on the negative news related to INO.
http://www.nature.com/news/nuclear-rumo ... ry-1.19150

“Already I’ve seen the tremendous difference it’s made to students having an experiment on which they call the shots,” says Indumathi. “So I really don’t care whether we get a Nobel prize or not.”

Just xposting what I posted in other dhaga not too long ago..some times fame which comes with recognition is nothing to sneeze at. The prestigious prize also brought some sort of recognition of 100's of collaborators.
Amber G. wrote:This is about a month old news, but since no one posted it here.. I am posting it.
Amber G. wrote:Some brf physics profs may be happy (I hope old brfite still lurks here)..

So atmospheric neutrino oscillations have their Nobel prize! Congrats to Kajita and McDonald.

The Nobel Prize in Physics 2015..

McDonald (along with several of his colleagues) also got 2016 Breakthrough Prize in Fundamental Physics ($3 million - more money than a Nobel) for investigating neutrino oscillation...

What may be more interesting for brf janta is that a name (or two :) ) of the "co-winners" may be more than familiar to some. Let me congratulate..

The announcement was made about a month ago, but since no one has posted the news I am doing it now. It is not that often that one get informed by a Facebook friend that "hey I may have won something" in a FB post. I think it is also neat to see that smaller collaborators are recognized for their achievements.. and the prize money being shared.

(For those who are not familiar, it is fairly common in high energy physics papers to have hundreds co-authors -- It is some what rare when 100's of odd co-authors are also recognized)
Members of T2K Collaboration awarded Breakthrough Prize

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Vayutuvan » 15 Jan 2016 00:39

“Already I’ve seen the tremendous difference it’s made to students having an experiment on which they call the shots,” says Indumathi. “So I really don’t care whether we get a Nobel prize or not.

Kudos to Indumathi ji.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 16 Jan 2016 07:53

It is perhaps appropriate time for Indian physicists/scientists to explore the underwater option like this one considering that they had issues siting experiments on land. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KM3NeT

It will have other uses too and can develop marine biology programs and support physical oceanography research too. We have the institutes like NIO, Goa and NIOT, Chennai with experience in ocean research for support. Locate it near the lakshwadweep islands close to ISRO's calibration site for ocean sensors on satellites where the waters are clear and deep.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Amber G. » 18 Jan 2016 22:07

Congratulations to one of our own IIT Kanpur scientist who is being honored with one of the most prestigious award - Medal of Science from Obama, on January 22nd. He studied Engineering, and used his knowledge to make life better for so many cancer patients. { see my posts about cancer :) - some of us who do not start in the "field" can also know a little } At present he is the Andrew Werk Cook Professor of Tumor Biology at Massachusetts General Hospital in the Harvard Medical School and Director of the E.L. Steele Laboratories for Tumor Biology at the Massachusetts General Hospital. And his work has benefitted countless cancer patients.
Image

Barack Obama to honor IIT Kanpur alumnus Dr Rakesh Jain with National Medal of Science

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Jan 2016 04:33

see my posts about cancer :) - some of us who do not start in the "field" can also know a little :)

You are working in the ER in a diverse city, a 21 year old male walks in with 2 day history of diarrhea, a scenario repeated dozens of times in any big city. Vitals are stable BP 120/70, O2 saturation 97% pulse 60, Respiratory rate 18.

Past history and family history are unremarkable.

Which of the following is the most important management of this patient, after tests are ordered?

1 stool studies
2 blood work
3 intravenous fluids
3 colonoscopy
4 CT scan
5 Implantable cardioverter defibrillator.
:)

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby ramana » 19 Jan 2016 22:28

3) IV due to diarrhea and then 2) Blood work for diagnosis?


But sanjay don't take it personally. No one is questioning doctors credentials.
Bioinformatics is moving into maths and physics. And cancer is going there.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Jan 2016 22:56

Those are reasonable responses.

My aim in posting this is to show that it is tempting to read press reports and consider one to be familiar with a topic. ido it all the time with cosmology and quantum mechanics.


The answer to the clinical problem is actually 5) Implantable cardiovertor defibrillator.

(From my case books, so not 'just theoretical').

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby vsunder » 03 Feb 2016 03:36

Professor S. Ranganathan formerly of IIT Kanpur Chemistry department passes away.

http://www.iitk.ac.in/new/prof-s-ranganathan

Professor S. Ranganathan was a distinguished chemist at IIT Kanpur during my days there. He did his post-doctoral work with Woodward at Harvard. During his tenure with Woodward, he was instrumental in the team that synthesized Vitamin B-12, and Cephalosporin-C and for experimental verification of what would later be called the Woodward-Hoffmann rules. Woodward went on to win the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in part because of his work on vitamin B-12. Woodward himself has commented on the contribution of Ranganathan in his Arthur C. Cope Award lectures( awarded by the American Chemical Society ACS):

"AND NOW, I approach the climax of my narrative. During 1963 and early 1964, as a superbly gifted member of my post-doctoral group...Dr. Subramania Ranganathan was investigating ..our objective of effecting the total synthesis of Vitamin B-12. Many of you will recognize him, not only for his subsequent original work, but also as the author of those delightful books ---Art in Organic Synthesis, Fascinating problems in Organic reaction Mechanisms, and Challenging Problems in Organic reaction Mechanisms."

Woodward in fact broke tradition( by not talking about the work for which he was cited by the Nobel committee) and his Nobel lecture(1965) is an outline of the total synthesis of Cephalosporin C,
a work that he and his team had finished but not yet published. He thanks Ranganathan and others in his team at the end:

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/ ... ecture.pdf

Ranganathan himself gives a concise account of this synthesis in the magazine Resonance:

http://111.93.135.171/Volumes/19/07/0649-0653.pdf
Last edited by vsunder on 03 Feb 2016 17:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Feb 2016 09:19

Never knew that this landmark synthesis had an Indian angle. Great to know.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 26 Mar 2016 05:10

Ladakh to get world's largest telescope?

A long shot, but Indian groups will have to be aggressive and lobby hard to get this one at Hanle.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby sooraj » 26 Mar 2016 12:33

Bade wrote:Ladakh to get world's largest telescope?

A long shot, but Indian groups will have to be aggressive and lobby hard to get this one at Hanle.



Image

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 01 Apr 2016 06:56

India, US sign MoU for setting up LIGO observatory in India
India and the US on Thursday signed an MoU for setting up a new Laser Interferometer Gravitational- Wave Observatory (LIGO) in India that will play significant role in carrying forward frontline research on various aspects of gravitational wave astronomy.

The MoU comes about a month after the Union Cabinet approved the construction of the long-awaited third LIGO interferometer.

Department of atomic energy secretary Sekhar Basu and the US' National Science Foundation (NSF) France Cordova signed the MoU in this regard in the presence of Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

.....

The construction of the long-awaited third LIGO interferometer, expected to be functional by 2023, will significantly improve the ability of scientists to pinpoint the sources of gravitational waves and analyse the signals.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Vayutuvan » 01 Apr 2016 08:47

Who is footing the bill?

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 01 Apr 2016 16:46

The host country of course. Koi shak ?

One month old news, but it has interesting details and potential spin-offs from the technology.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/ligo-india-big-science-project-with-big-benefits/articleshow/51099311.cms

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 01 Apr 2016 22:31

The signing of the MOU is an important step in building a gravitational-wave detector in India and another step toward a global network of GW detectors. Once the LIGO-India detector becomes fully operational, it will allow the scientists to better triangulate the sources of gravitational waves, and to determine their location with greater accuracy. A more precise localization is especially important for studying electromagnetic (EM) counterparts that accompany gravitational wave-producing events, such as gamma-ray bursts, as it will make it possible to quickly and accurately locate and observe them. This will be an important role the GW observations will play in the upcoming era of multi-messenger astronomy. The redundancy of having multiple detectors each at a unique location is another advantage. It will minimize the effect of the inevitable downtime of the detectors, for maintenance or due to local environmental disturbances. A global network of multiple detectors will increase the likelihood that several of them will be actively observing at any given time.

http://ligonews.blogspot.com/2016/03/ns ... a-mou.html

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 05 Apr 2016 22:53

Wonder where it will be that will satisfy the criteria below. Anyone from MP could speculate on this. My bet is that it will be close to RRCAT in Indore, considering lot of synergies with Accelerator technology. Or it could be close to IPR near Gandhinagar...but in a seismic zone.

Building it near Gauribidanur (north of Bengaluru) may not be a bad option too.
a)Site selection and validation:
The gravitational wave detector is a ultra-sensitive
optical interferometer with projected sensitivity of 10^-19m for displacement of its
mirrors. This is achieved with careful isolation from seismic and environmental
disturbances, vibrations and gravity gradients. This naturally implies very careful
site selection and preparation. The nearest railway lines and heavy traffic should be
several kilometers away from the central laboratory station and the end stations of
the L-shaped 4 km x 4km interferometer. Seismically quiet sites in the Deccan plateau
are a good possibility. The central laboratory station will require an isolated area of
400 m x 400 m (40 acres). Ideally, the end stations should also be well isolated, and
could be on area of 200 m x 100 m (2x 5 acres). Each of the 4 km arm will need a
minimum isolated area of about 4 km x 50 m (2x 50 acres). Hence the total land
required is about 150 acres, with good isolation from large disturbances. It is also
important to locate the central laboratory site not too far away from air (100-200 km)
and good national road (<10 km) access. Careful selection, measurements for
validation of noise immunity etc. will have to be done at potential sites during
2011-12 and procedures for site acquisition will have to be initiated and concluded by
2013. Instruments for measurements of vibration, weather monitoring etc. will have
to be procured and deployed. The measurements and validation will be done in
collaboration and consultation with the LIGO laboratory and help from specialized
industry partners may be taken. The estimated expenditure for essential equipment,
initial surveys and measurements, visits of experts from LIGO laboratory, associated
travel to potential sites, hiring of professional help etc. is Rs. 90 lakhs, during
December 2011- March 2013.

https://dcc.ligo.org/public/0075/M11002 ... _lw-v2.pdf

The document has a lot of technical information for the interested.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Suraj » 14 Apr 2016 20:26

THE BRILLIANT MATHEMATICIAN WHOM TIME FORGOT
Long before Sir Isaac Newton, Pierre de Fermat, Gottfried Leibniz or the rest of the crew credited with the development of calculus, an astronomer and mathematician named Jyesthadeva put ink to palm leaves to record the mathematics of his teachers and possibly some of his own.

In a small town in southern India in the 1500s, Jyesthadeva penned concepts important to developing a calculus system, and he did so in complete proofs that demonstrated infinite series expansions of trigonometric functions and gave precise approximations for complex calculations. “Calculus and everything derived from it depends to some extent on these concepts of infinitesimals and infinite series,” says Kim Plofker, author of Mathematics in India. By way of comparison, it wasn’t until the 1660s in Europe that a Westerner named James Gregory was able to independently do the same proof.

The text, called the Yuktibhasa, is broken into 15 chapters and spans hundreds of pages of proofs and commentary. It was a compilation of a century-plus of Indian mathematics developed by the Kerala school, led by mathematician Madhava of Sangamagrama in the 14th century. Most of Madhava’s work would have been lost if not for the writings of pupils like Jyesthadeva, who recorded everything in Dravidian, the hyper-localized dialect of Malayalam. One theory is that Jyesthadeva wasn’t fluent in Sanskrit or he was helping others who weren’t.

After the school fizzled out, it took more than 100 years before the work was studied by a Western audience. British colonists in India began studying the culture in the 1700s; in the 1830s, Charles M. Whish published a paper about the Yuktibhasa in the journal Transactions of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland. Whish was a busy fellow, serving in the East India Company in South Malabar, and then, after a few years, as a criminal judge. But he found time to study Indian texts on the side, and before he died at the age of 38, Whish shared with a European audience how the Yuktibhasa had complete proofs.

This was an important “discovery.” Prior to Whish’s translation, Europeans commenting on Indian mathematics denied that the subcontinent had invented its own concepts. John Warren, another East India Company employee, wrote that “a Native Astronomer who was a perfect stranger to European Geometry” could demonstrate the infinite series, but the astronomer could not explain how he knew it to be true — the proof, in other words, was missing. “The Hindus never invented the series; it was communicated with many others, by Europeans, to some learned Natives in modern times,” Warren wrote, quoting George Hyne, also of the East India Company. Whish disagreed, but the prevailing notion, as Hyne had written to Warren, was that “the pretensions of the Hindus to such a knowledge of geometry, is too ridiculous to deserve refutation.”

The Yuktibhasa was the key to proving Warren wrong. It revealed that the Kerala mathematicians had not “taken” the logic but had found it themselves and derived their solution, and had done so far earlier than any European. Whish wanted to correct the misconception, noting, “I have ascertained beyond a doubt that the invention of infinite series of these forms has originated in Malabar” — further proof that history did not have to be written in English to be true.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 14 Apr 2016 20:35

^
That's great, it is actually in writing, with ink. So does it have mathematical notation, or does it rely on slokas or verses? Still, if proofs are given, very impressive for the 16th century! However, don't expect mainstream thought in North America or Europe to give much credit to India, for anything scientific. Not for at least another generation or two.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Supratik » 14 Apr 2016 21:00

I would posit the opposite. At least some people in the west are acknowledging the long Indian tradition in mathematics and astronomy. In India it is considered communal to talk about the achievements of our ancestors. Our leftist, certificate-givers control academia in India. I remember that we read very little about it in school. NDA1 had started an ill-advised course in Vedic mathematics. It should be part of the curricula without making it religious.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Lilo » 14 Apr 2016 22:58

MENCA brings divine wealth from Mars: First science results from the Mars Orbiter Mission
Syed Maqbool Ahmed 2016/03/02 14:00 UTC

MENCA(Mars Exospheric Neutral Composition Analyser) is a quadrupole mass spectrometer onboard India's Mars Orbiter Mission, MOM. In Hindu mythology, Menaka was a nymph sent down to Earth from Indralok, the palace of the gods' god, Indra. Hence the first published results of MENCA from Mars is like a divine wealth, I must say. The results were published a few days ago in Geophysical Research Letters. Barring a few conference abstracts and a recent summary of MOM sub-systems in an Indian journal (PDF), this is the very first science result that the Indian MOM has churned out on the international forum. I am hoping for many more to come.

Image

MENCA is based on the design of the CHACE instrument that was sent to the moon on ISRO's Chandrayaan-1 lunar mission. It was built at Space Physics Laboratory (almost by the same group as for CHACE) of ISRO's Vikram Sarabhai Space Center, in southern part of India. Basically, it is a neutral gas mass spectrometer covering 1-300 amu range with a capability of separating a single mass unit. The Mars Orbiter Mission was inserted into Martian orbit on September 24, 2014, with orbit parameters of 400 by 71,000 kilometers.

After the completion of one year of primary mission (September 2015), MOM was made to dip down to 260 kilometers from its normal periapsis altitude of 400 kilometers. While dipping down, MENCA had better chances of collecting data on neutral species data. The newly published paper reports that MENCA has successfully measured the altitudinal profiles of CO2, (N2+CO) and O. It gives me an immense satisfaction and PRIDE that MENCA has come up with flying colors.

What about the other instruments? Among the five payloads onboard MOM, both MCC and TIRS are imaging instruments. Big science is expected from the Methane Sensor for Mars, MSM, but as per a report appearing in January in The Financial Express, speaking at the Indian Science congress, Mr. S.K. Shivakumar (ex-director ISAC-ISRO) made a statement that MOM is yet to find methane on Mars. The Lyman Alpha Photometer (LAP) carries a great scientific value for its potential in estimating Martian atmospheric loss. But, the day belongs to MENCA.

The hard lessons learned in developing CHACE during Chandrayaan-I were all worth it. I feel I am on seventh cloud. I could say this not only for my correct prediction that MENCA was the most scientifically promising instrument on MOM, but also due to my personal experience of our attempts to publish the peak #18 (Water) data recorded by CHACE at the Moon in December 2008 with Chandrayaan-I. It was (then) rejected for publication on the grounds that it was likely "contamination". Later, in November 2009, the Moon Mineralogy Mapper (M3) instrument's remote sensing data of water from Chandrayaan-I was published by Science.{Notice the similarity to how the kerala school of calculus was pooh poohed} .So I would like to end by saying that MENCA's triumph on Mars means Lunar CHACE was correct.


So CHACE infact did detect water on moon before the M3 of Massa - remember how the isro representative was standing in the front row when sitting NASA scientists on podium were announcing that their M3 discovered water on moon and were throwing a bone or two at Isro for making it possible by launching it.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 15 Apr 2016 17:53

Supratik wrote:I would posit the opposite. At least some people in the west are acknowledging the long Indian tradition in mathematics and astronomy. In India it is considered communal to talk about the achievements of our ancestors. Our leftist, certificate-givers control academia in India. I remember that we read very little about it in school. NDA1 had started an ill-advised course in Vedic mathematics. It should be part of the curricula without making it religious.


Rings largely true, though Western academics on their own, are quite capable of ignoring, downplaying or slighting, Indian achievements!

So, did this Kerala mathemetician use notation, or again verses like Aryabhata? If anything, that is the mark against ancient Indian mathematics, that it almost combined poetry with science, even when they were trying to prove something! Bhaskara in the 12th century at least used some notation and illustration.

Indians developed the number system and notation, but few of the ancient mathematicians actually employed it in their works! Preferring instead, slokas, verses.

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 15 Apr 2016 21:50


Bade
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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Bade » 15 Apr 2016 22:23

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuktibh%C ... 9%A3%C4%81

K V Sarma; S Hariharan (1991). "Yuktibhāṣā of Jyeṣṭhadeva: A book on rationales in Indian Mathematics and Astronomy: An analytic appraisal" (PDF). Indian Journal of History of Science 26 (2). Archived from the original (PDF) on 2006-09-28. Retrieved 2006-07-09.

http://web.archive.org/web/200609282032 ... c0_185.pdf

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Re: India's Contribution to Science & Technology

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 16 Apr 2016 21:11

^
Very informative about the achievements of that school of mathematics- however, nowhere is it mentioned whether the discoveries/analysis were written in verse, or used the number system.


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