Jaipur Blasts

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CRamS
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Post by CRamS »

Mera Bharat Mahaan

[quote]
The jihadists, whatever their origin, share a common aim of raising the tensions between India’s religious groups. By attacking Hindu temples, prayers and neighbourhoods in Rajasthan's capital, they probably hope to provoke an angry backlash, which will in turn radicalise India’s 150m Muslims, half a million of whom live in Jaipur district , according to the 2001 census. “They want to balkanise India,â€
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Post by ramana »

Its not extremists. Its TSP which is facing increased pressure from US to open up in FATA/WATA. They hope that India will muster trops again and they can be let of the hook. MMS gang doesnt want to do that as that makes uncle mad and might reduce the economic pie in the sky that they hope to get. There is a middle way that has to be found. And Indian Army refuses to arm itself so it can be ready for any Cold/Warm start. By now they could have the 124 Arjuns to roll in.
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Post by ramana »

Seems all the bicycles were bought from one guy. Another indicator. Large transportation purchase without reasons should be reported to police.
Same with tailor shops asked to stitch large number of bags etc.

The police have to be out there cultivating contacts.
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Post by ashish raval »

Terrorism was something that happened to "other" people. Something very distant.

Now I am afraid to even step out of the house, or allow a family member to do likewise. Imagine going to some shop or mall and being blown apart. Or living handicapped for the rest of your life. Presently, the roads are deserted, sirens have only just stopped screaming, and people are retiring to their homes after talking with neigbours etc.

One of the things I learned in the west is 'group solidarity'. Westerners will close ranks when confronted with something they consider as a threat. Essentially it means 'if you do something to one of us, you did it to all of us and all of us will come for you'. We see this kind of solidarity among the Chinese ( race and culture unites then ), among Christians and of course among Muslims. But Indians don't think like that, if Muslims blow up or burn to death Hindu pilgrims, for example, many Indians will think 'Thank God it happened to someone else and not to me'. What they forget is that maybe the next time it will be them.

I think Shivani, Raja Ram, Shridhar and others already said the most important things.
Well put up. These racial strength arises from the fact that these people have intermarried throughout the period of evolution so there is no line which differentiates in between them except language. Today in our country if you talk about nationalist policies, all media lefties etc attack the leader and hell bents itself to prove him mad. The fact of matter is people in our country are selfish and more importantly they lack quality education on nation building. What is more worrying about the blast is its attempt to divide the people and it may largely succeed after several more attempt. The GoI should go ahead and get help from any governtment in the world if it is stupid enough to not being able to crack the case alone. The culprits are roaming and its just matter of few more days/months when another city is targetted.
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Post by shyamd »

ramana wrote:shyamd, Common folks can take precautionary measures:

Be alert for anyone can be a victim of terrorist attack.

Watch out for out of ordinary events, people and places while not being stereotypical.

And form local watchdog committees and laise with police and civil defence folks.

Pressure the officials to ensure that hospitals etc have adequate capacity. Why not use this thread to collect what can citizens do rather than wait for government which cant do much for various reasons.
Ramanaji, These are all in place in major cities like Mumbai/Delhi. I have seen colour adverts in newspapers by Mumbai police talking about what to do in case of terrorist attack and all precautionary measures as well as being alert. Some of what you said above was written in the advert.

Local watchdog committees sounds good, I was thinking about that myself because it is a regular thing in the UK and why we don't have it in India.

My frustration is with weak govt, not taking action that they know they can do, I have a feeling that, whoever shows balls and does something might have his life targeted with(terror target) and also Human Rights watch chasing his ass hence why politico's are afraid to put their foot down. The loss is too much, think about it if the media looks at it in the wrong way. My point is that whoever wants to take an offensive action stands a lot to lose. So GOI's play is defensive.
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Post by ramana »

Yes shyamd, but need to do it on citizen's level based on active particpation and not govt exhortion.

Meanwhile per Deccan Chronicle,

[quote]
Bangla accent of bomber points to HuJI


New Delhi, May 14: The Rajasthan police has put together a sketch of one of the people it suspects was behind Tuesday’s terror blasts in Jaipur. The man depicted in the sketch is believed to have purchased one of the cycles used in the attacks from a local shop in Jaipur. The Jaipur police on Wednesday evening zeroed in on a shop called Santosh Trading Company in Kishanpole market which is believed to have sold an “Enronâ€
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Post by Sanjay M »

Who is behind the India bombings?

More than 400 people have been killed in a string of serial bombings across India since October 2005, with Jaipur the latest city attacked. The BBC's Subir Bhaumik looks at who might be behind the blasts.
Why WE INDIANS ARE TO BLAME, of course. :P
"The intelligence agencies rarely chase up leads to get more specific intelligence and when something like Jaipur happens, they refer to their old report to save their jobs."

...

"They have thrived on Muslim alienation in India since the phenomenal rise of the Hindu right in the country in the mid-1980s," says Pradip Bose of the Calcutta-based Center for Study in Social Sciences (CSSS).

He says it all started with the demolition of the Babri Mosque in Ayodhya in December 1992 and has been fuelled by large-scale violence against Muslims, such as in the Gujarat riots in 2002.

"A riot like Gujarat creates a few thousand potential jihadis seeking revenge, so there's no use blaming the foreign hand. We in this country have created this problem," says Mr Bose, a distinguished sociologist.
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Post by surinder »

The essence of strength is solidarity. Solidarity comes from unity. India is just too divided to have a coherent solidarity---there are divisions of caste, language, relgion, sect, money, rural/urban, class, english/vernacular.

However, the shared experience of going through Islam & Pakistan inspired terror (and prior the British rapacious rule) cuts through our divisions and fosters solidarity. Solidarity, after all, is through a shared set of experiences (shared enemies, shared friends, shared destiny, shared future). So in a perverse way, this terror is uniting us.
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Post by svinayak »

surinder wrote: Solidarity, after all, is through a shared set of experiences (shared enemies, shared friends, shared destiny, shared future). So in a perverse way, this terror is uniting us.
That is a nation by definition
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Post by vsudhir »

However, the shared experience of going through Islam & Pakistan inspired terror (and prior the British rapacious rule) cuts through our divisions and fosters solidarity. Solidarity, after all, is through a shared set of experiences (shared enemies, shared friends, shared destiny, shared future). So in a perverse way, this terror is uniting us.
Surinder has a point here.

The blasts have done their bit to polarise electorates and isolate the psecs. Whether good or bad, this seems to be happening on the ground.
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

Sorry saar but u r dreaming onlee. The blasts are over (for yesterday), and except for the families of the victims, and the victims who are still alive, and maybe their close friends, very few desis give a damn. Jaipur will be in the news tomorrow because they have a very IMPORTANT 20-20 match with lots of celebrities and foreigners coming in. So they probably want all that wailing and weeping OFF the streets, and the joyous sounds of celebration replacing them. Shows the SPIRIT. The RESILIENCE. The filthy callousness.

Elections will be contested using the right criteria as always: caste, creed, corruption and greed.

As they say, "Until next time". :roll:
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Post by CRamS »

Multatuli wrote:
One of the things I learned in the west is 'group solidarity'. Westerners will close ranks when confronted with something they consider as a threat. Essentially it means 'if you do something to one of us, you did it to all of us and all of us will come for you'. We see this kind of solidarity among the Chinese ( race and culture unites then ), among Christians and of course among Muslims.
Absolutely. I still believe (wonder if the erdudite ones here agree), that had it not been for the 'group solidarity' post 9/11, all the European lackeys feeling profuse empathy for USA, and joining in, in the so called GOAT, and instead struck a somewhat nuanced posture like the entire west does through their equal equal crap after every Paki attack on India, the wrath of mid-east Islamists would have been limited to USA. The west might have pompous family feuds, but are one when it comes to west vs the rest. And none, signifies this more than the UK puppies. I recall, after 9/11, Tony Blair was almost lamenting why only his big brother across the pond was hit and not him.
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Post by Sanjay M »

Terrorism in India
Bloodshed in Jaipur

May 14th 2008 | JAIPUR
From Economist.com
Look in their comments section:

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displa ... readBottom

rbhuman writes:
rbhuman wrote:I agree with Wilson John. India must look beyond its usual finger pointing and admit that terrorism, though sometimes foreign inspired, is being taken up by local terrorists who are Indian Citizens. Unless India recognizes all who are involved in religious terrorim, it will come short of a good counter strategy.

India is a resilent country. Though, Jihadists do provoke some Hindus to relatiate, these days this relatialtion seems to be more politically inspired rather than religiously inspired. However Cliche, Education is the right tool in solving the crisis.
I reply:
sanman wrote:@rbhuman - what garbage. The Economist is a notoriously Euro-centric newspaper, and if you read enough of its articles, you'll see that there are certain ethnic groups that it particularly tends to scapegoat. Russians, Serbs, Indians/Hindus, Israelis/Jews. Whenever these groups are on the receiving end of terror attacks, The Economist slyly calls their glasses half-empty, while quickly labeling the glasses of Muslims to be half-full. Divide-and-rule is an age-old tradition of the British, as any Irishman will tell you. Whether it's a massacre of schoolchildren in Beslan, bombings in India or in Israel, or similar violence in Thailand, The Economist knows how to spin the facts to favour its favorite militant henchmen. Good ol' Economist -- always trying to put the S back in Limey.
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Post by svinayak »

Multatuli wrote:
One of the things I learned in the west is 'group solidarity'. Westerners will close ranks when confronted with something they consider as a threat. Essentially it means 'if you do something to one of us, you did it to all of us and all of us will come for you'. We see this kind of solidarity among the Chinese ( race and culture unites then ), among Christians and of course among Muslims.
Social studies determine that when the society is homogeneous made of one race they have group solidarity. Japanese, german and Han race are considered homogeneous.
Cultural homogeneity is the next level in which religion, shared history and identity will bring about group solidarity.
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Post by vsudhir »

x-posting

Apologies if posted already.

Fight the war on New Terrorism to the finish (B S Raghavan)
B S Raghavan is a retired IAS officer who was a member of the Joint Intelligence Committee, Director of Political and Security Policy Planning in the home ministry, and chief secretary of a state.
Refreshing bluntness, if I may.

If today's babus are anything like Shri Raghavan here, GoI isn't lost yet.
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just wnat to make a point

Post by prakashtirupati »

with in hours of bomb blasts the government arrested a man and a woman with Hindu names , is it s psy-op ? so that riots do not happen.
Raju

Post by Raju »

Apparently Warnie is scared sh!tless after the blasts and wants to go home.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/bomb ... 28799.html
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Post by enqyoobOLD »

Now I see: It's the Bangalore Mafia trying to scare the Rajasthan team, after their Cheer Leader skirt-lifting and boob-jigglingfailed to move them from musharraf of the IPL.
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India's Standoff with Jihad

Post by MuthuswamyM »

http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/R ... B88E021202

Muthuswamy: The fundamental differences between myself and the India-based authors stems from our varying view of Islamic terrorism in India: Conquest model of Islam vs. the religion one.

In order to indoctrinate Indian Muslims into attacking the Indian state, “grievancesâ€
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Post by MuthuswamyM »

Abhi wrote: Situation I believe is hopeless. I have already started humiliating my friends in the army , hoping they get spine.
This is an analysis of mine written in 2005.

My intent here is to initiate some out of the box thinking by pointing out alternate analysis.

http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_051120.htm

India suffers from nonfunctioning democracy

For nations that are in developing world category and are destabilized by neighbors, democracy may not be the best way of doing nation building. The African nation of Malawi has had democracy for decade, with free press and free elections. But during these years, the country went backwards in terms of development. Reason: Malavi suffers from a nonfunctional democracy as evidenced by inept leadership. However, many have progressed from developing to developed nations – South Korea Taiwan or even China – have all done so based upon visionary non-democracy-based leaderships that have used an iron hand to neutralize instabilities and kept the focus on growth. I have pointed the following before (A New Paradigm: Civilization through Wealth Creation): “Wealth creation, not democracy is the basis of building modern civilizations. (Functional) Democracy is the eventual consequence of such a civilization. Therefore, wealth creation must be put ahead of democracyâ€
Raju

Post by Raju »

that is something I can agree with MurthyM. A strong leader will always mean slightly lesser freedom but more security, more centralization, better control over development. That's why strong leaders are always tipped off because they are hurdles to external-sponsored instability and geopolitical agenda. Recall Indira Gandhi, and Rajiv Gandhi had to be removed before India could be bought under IMF heel. And proxies put in place in positions of influence. And the proxies always turn out to be pygmies and men of small political stature and generally irrelevant.

A strong leader will protect us, in turn we need to protect the strong leader. In absence of real information, we prefer to run after/blame internal agents of subversion than the external masterminds. The population must be made aware of who this external masterminds are. An invisible enemy and one who is left loose to perpetuate it's agenda is far more dangerous than a visible internal one. Realization of the true enemy is first step of defence.
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Re: India's Standoff with Jihad

Post by surinder »

MuthuswamyM wrote:http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/R ... B88E021202

...

India is going to have a hard time countering the Islamic challenge on its own.
Which leads to your thesis that India should join hands with the US and let it fight for us or along with us. This conclusion has cost you a place of respect on the BRF forum, despite having written a great book.

India has to fight it out itself. No country will bail us out.

Can India do it? India a few centuries was living under the most brutal regime imaginable. However bad you feel now about Islamic terror, it pales in comparison to what was there under Aurangzeb. Under those trying times India went deep into its real self and produced heroes to fight Islamic terror. Let me say one thing, if India could produce a Shiva Ji and Maharaja Ranjit Singh while living under the worst Islamic terror, it can surely do it again. They were not helped by foreign goras, but were actually hurt by them. We have done it before, by Allah's grace we shall do it again.
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Post by Ashok Sarraff »

Acharya wrote:
Multatuli wrote:
One of the things I learned in the west is 'group solidarity'. Westerners will close ranks when confronted with something they consider as a threat. Essentially it means 'if you do something to one of us, you did it to all of us and all of us will come for you'. We see this kind of solidarity among the Chinese ( race and culture unites then ), among Christians and of course among Muslims.
Social studies determine that when the society is homogeneous made of one race they have group solidarity. Japanese, german and Han race are considered homogeneous.
Cultural homogeneity is the next level in which religion, shared history and identity will bring about group solidarity.
And to prevent the feelings of homogeneity to emerge in India, we are told that "Unity and Diversity" is our mantra. How about changing that to "Diversity in Unity"? That is, why can't we realize that we are one nation, the common thread being our indic roots, including that of Indian Muslims and Christians? And that the "diversity" is superficial. Some unifying threads could be the shakti peeths, jyotirlings, dhams, kumbh melas, the devotion to Ram, Krishna, Hanuman, and Kali prevalent all over the country.

But no, the secularists would not allow this feeling of unity to emerge. US can be "one country under (Christian) God". But India cannot be allowed to become one country under Dharma.

If Indian kids are taught that they are Indians first and Marathis and Tamils later, and that they all ultimately belong to the great Dharmic traditions, many problems will resolved easily. Of course our "secular" friends won't like that to happen.

A
Raju

Re: India's Standoff with Jihad

Post by Raju »

surinder wrote: Can India do it?
yes, we will.
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Re: India's Standoff with Jihad

Post by Anujan »

[quote="MuthuswamyM"]In order to indoctrinate Indian Muslims into attacking the Indian state, “grievancesâ€
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Post by Karan Dixit »

Politburo style bhagva government is the answer in my opinion. But it is not going to happen. Because in India no one has absolute power. Power is distributed.
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Post by sanjchopra »

Jaipur: Amidst misery, kindness of a few

This is why I love my country...
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Post by ramana »

M^2, One flaw in your analysis is the fact that the US as the leader of the Anglo-Saxon groups has colluded with Islamists to attack/constrain India. Even now its the US support of TSP that keeps India from retaliating with full fury. Every Islamist extremist takes succor in the fact that when the chips are down the Anglo-Saxon West will bail them out no matter where they are facing defeat. I am afraid you haven't understood the issues at their full depth.
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Post by darshan »

Here is what I do not get it:

GoI has pretty much adopted cowardness over everything else and accepted the bomb blasts as regular business and policy. Okay and fine as long as particular policy is followed to the boot.

So, given this policy, how about GoI creating better infrastructure like hospitals and emergency personnel to go with this policy and prove to Indians that they are still loyal to India and not Pukes?
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Post by ramana »

Darshan, GOI is taking halting steps in this area.

here are some links:

Dr. Kanda Mohan to take over National Disaster Relief

and

Good Urban Governance for
Building Resilient Cities


PDf presentation. he will get the job done one way or the other.

Apparently the floods guidelines were released in jan 2008.

More on NDMA lessons learned from

Tsunami and NDMA org chart.
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Post by svinayak »

ramana wrote:M^2, One flaw in your analysis is the fact that the US as the leader of the Anglo-Saxon groups has colluded with Islamists to attack/constrain India. Even now its the US support of TSP that keeps India from retaliating with full fury. Every Islamist extremist takes succor in the fact that when the chips are down the Anglo-Saxon West will bail them out no matter where they are facing defeat. I am afraid you haven't understood the issues at their full depth.
Can we have a structured discussion on M2 points in a seperate thread when the topic is active
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Post by ramana »

Please do the honors and start the new thread.

Thanks, ramana
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Post by disha »

darshan wrote:...So, given this policy, how about GoI creating better infrastructure like hospitals and emergency personnel to go with this policy and prove to Indians that they are still loyal to India and not Pukes?
What is the state government doing? What does the State's home minister doing? Does not the state machinery have a law and order situation to handle? How about handling the local infrastructure?

I am no fan of the current GOI but State govt. have its fair share of blame to go around.

I am also deeply anguished but then this "Mai-baap" mentality is not going to help.
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Post by MuthuswamyM »

ramana wrote:M^2, One flaw in your analysis is the fact that the US as the leader of the Anglo-Saxon groups has colluded with Islamists to attack/constrain India. Even now its the US support of TSP that keeps India from retaliating with full fury. Every Islamist extremist takes succor in the fact that when the chips are down the Anglo-Saxon West will bail them out no matter where they are facing defeat.
Ramanaji:

If you had made these statements in 1980s I would have applauded you. I am afraid, you are a bit late to the party:)-

More than constraining India, containing Islam is the more urgent strategic priority of the United States.

Even recent American efforts to constrain India vis-a-vis Pakistan is driven by the perception that if India puts military pressure on Pakistan it will make Pakistan cooperate less in the Taliban/Al Qaeda front.

If I were you, I would just avoid statements such as "I am afraid you haven't understood the issues at their full depth." and just stick to reasoned analysis.
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Re: just wnat to make a point

Post by AjayKK »

prakashtirupati wrote:with in hours of bomb blasts the government arrested a man and a woman with Hindu names , is it s psy-op ? so that riots do not happen.
Mumbai Man Held in Jaipur Mad, Not Evil
The man from Mumbai that Jaipur police were banking on to crack the serial blasts case has turned out to be mentally deranged.

Within a couple of hours of Tuesday's blasts that claimed over 80 lives, Jaipur police had detained a man named Vijay, reportedly from Mumbai, on the suspicion that he was aware of the blasts conspiracy.

Admitted with shrapnel injuries, Vijay caught hold of a policeman and shouted: "Arey us aurat ko roko, nahi to wo tabahi macha degi (Stop that woman or else she will destroy the city)."

Stunned, the police thought they had got a lead. They immediately picked him up and took him to Moti Dongri police station.

There, he told police he was a rickshawpuller and had been contacted by a woman named Meena Kumari four days ago to help her in executing the blasts.


The media too spun stories of how women were being used to execute blasts and how the development possibly suggested the hand of SIMI’s women’s militant group called Shaheen Force
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Post by Murugan »

with in hours of bomb blasts the government arrested a man and a woman with Hindu names , is it s psy-op ? so that riots do not happen.
these guys (muslims with hindu names) must be from bd.

here in MS i know few Bdeshis who speaks a different type of bengali and keep hindu names. one is rajesh das who is actually a muslim (once i found out his parents names and all). the whole bunch is here

nobody is bothered about the bdeshis pricking our musharraf. the priorities of the government are 'different'. and of couse, after the north indians driven out of mumbai, Bdeshis will provide cheap labour.

Bdeshis are actually providing cheaper labour in far north suburbs replacing local/north indian house maids, drivers, painters, masons. all are Bdeshis with hindus and muslim names.

this may be true to other regions/states


One day i was in Nala-Sopara suburb:
aapko bangladeshi maid chahiye?
ruksana, zehrunnisa, naseem or a driver
aman, aamir, romesh, iqbal etc.?
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Post by sauravjha »

Bdeshis who speaks a different type of bengali and keep hindu names
yes a standard tactic. In Kolkata, you will find that tons of domestic hands have typical names . Most of them are BDs who have adopted standard hindu names. In many cases the women deliberately wear vermilion to obfuscate their islamic background.

the bengali they speak is obviously different and has the east bengali drawl. Also the dialect can change the sounds quite a bit , depending on whether they are from barisal, Chittagong, whatever. it is quite easy to make out a BD in Bengal and obviously elsewhere as well.
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Post by Avinash R »

not directly connected to jaipur blasts but an right message from the supreme court that the people who murder are not going to be spared just because they happen to be muslim.
Parliament attack case; SC dismisses Shaukat's petition
New Delhi, PTI:

The Supreme Court today dismissed the petition filed by Parliament attack case convict Shaukat Hussain Guru challenging his ten years imprisonment.

"We do not find any reason to interfere with our verdict," a Bench headed by Justice P P Naolekar said.

Shaukat had filed the petition after the apex court had dismissed his review and curative petition against the judgement sentencing him to ten years imprisonment.

The trial court had awarded death sentence to Shaukat for the December 13, 2001, attack on Parliament which was upheld by the Delhi High Court. However, the apex court had reduced the sentence to ten years imprisonment under section 123 of the IPC.
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Post by Murugan »

BDeshis come here in single'. An existing 'agency' will declare him/her as relative from far flung bengali village.

Earlier or Later their names will be incorporated in the ration card of the facilitating agency.

After a year or two, the name will be separted from agent's ration card and the Intruder will apply for an independent ration card. will get drive license and other documents.

Now s/he will call her relatives from far flung 'bengali villages'.
the loop is not over.

Will build a dargah nearby or a small mosque. A 'bengali villager' will come to mosque as mullah/imam. Network established.

The gurds at the mosque and BDesi Bastis are our Politicans. They also act as facilitators for expansion and sustenance of such 'bdvolent' activities.

This is a typical Bdeshi intrusion operation in MS

***

Lalu declares Rs 10 Lacs compensation for Paki Samjauta Express victims. Vasundhara bahenji declares Rs 5 Lacs.
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Post by Gaurav_S »

Jaipur blast mail link traced, cyber cafe owner detained
The owner of a cyber cafe from where an e-mail claiming responsibility for the Jaipur blasts was sent was detained by the police in Ghaziabad on Thursday.

Police officials said Madhukar Mishra, the owner of Naveen Computer Jobs, a cyber cafe in Sahibabad area of Ghaziabad right on the border with the national capital, has been detained for questioning.

An e-mail by a group claiming responsibility for Tuesday's serial bomb blasts in Jaipur was sent from this cyber cafe, said the police. The outfit, which also e-mailed videos of a cycle strapped with a bag it claimed held the bomb, reportedly called itself 'Indian Mujahideen'.

On Tuesday evening, eight bombs went off within 15 minutes in a one-kilometre stretch in Jaipur. Sixty-three people died in the heinous bombings and over 200 were injured.

The ID used for sending the e-mail about the blasts, "guru_al_hindi_jaipur@yahoo.co.uk", is similar to "guru_alhindi@yahoo.fr" from which some television channels had received an email minutes before blasts rocked the holy city of Varanasi in Uttar Pradesh on Nov 23, 2007. A total of five blasts in Lucknow, Faizabad and Varanasi had claimed 13 lives and left 80 wounded.
HT
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