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Jaipur blasts -2

satya
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Postby satya » 18 May 2008 14:34

Anybody care to comment why these jihadis dont dare to do their thing in Punjab


1. Never forgetting history

2. Demographically concentrated in one particular area around Maler Kotla

3. Unofficial understanding of not jumping out of their chaddis

Jihadists wont ever dare in twin states of Punjab & Haryana .They do have an immortal fear of 'Singh' from both states and during partition , they were specially well cleaned out from these states specially rural areas.

In haryana , they are concentrated in Mewat region but know their position and have never dared to raise their head above even during post-Babri demolition riots.

Talk with any Pakjabi abroad , first thing they ask where u from and when u say from either these two states , next question is if ur a Singh and if answer is affirmative, their tone changes to one of respect or fear .

A bit off topic , Pakjabis have an eternal hatred for 'bhaiya" , anyone not from their punjab b4 partition time is a bhaiya and Mushy is hated for being a bhaiya and many news anchors of Porkies chanels are identified as bhaiya .

My 2 anna observations

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Postby sauravjha » 18 May 2008 14:54

I dont wish to have any more argument with you on the topic Mr Jha..you may call it a prejudice or regional BS..may be if we could have a different thread for uncontrolled MIGRATION and its consequences people and members both from sides could put forth their arguments
..


much saner answer . yeah why not , but i guess that depends on the admins doesn't it?

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Postby sauravjha » 18 May 2008 14:59

A bit off topic , Pakjabis have an eternal hatred for 'bhaiya" , anyone not from their punjab b4 partition time is a bhaiya and Mushy is hated for being a bhaiya and many news anchors of Porkies chanels are identified as bhaiya .


A bhaiya is from the gangetic plain onree. and of course RAPE and Pakjabi think they are historically "superior" to bhaiyas .


but it will be the bhaiyas only who will smash the last vestiges of "mughal " pride on the sub-continent. chanakya and magadh will rise again.

the British were shit scared of the Bhaiyas as well. Hindus in the gangetic plain gave them the most amount of trouble and which is precisely why they declared various hindu poorbiya communities as non-martial (post 1857) after having used them to successfully conquer most of North india.

Now our dear islamist barbarian descent pakjabis will learn the hard way as to their great 'superiority'.

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Postby G Subramaniam » 18 May 2008 19:50

satya wrote:
Anybody care to comment why these jihadis dont dare to do their thing in Punjab


1. Never forgetting history

2. Demographically concentrated in one particular area around Maler Kotla

3. Unofficial understanding of not jumping out of their chaddis

Jihadists wont ever dare in twin states of Punjab & Haryana .They do have an immortal fear of 'Singh' from both states and during partition , they were specially well cleaned out from these states specially rural areas.

In haryana , they are concentrated in Mewat region but know their position and have never dared to raise their head above even during post-Babri demolition riots.

Talk with any Pakjabi abroad , first thing they ask where u from and when u say from either these two states , next question is if ur a Singh and if answer is affirmative, their tone changes to one of respect or fear .

A bit off topic , Pakjabis have an eternal hatred for 'bhaiya" , anyone not from their punjab b4 partition time is a bhaiya and Mushy is hated for being a bhaiya and many news anchors of Porkies chanels are identified as bhaiya .

My 2 anna observations



The above awareness must be transmitted to the rest of India

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Postby nkumar » 18 May 2008 20:26

I don't remember exactly but even in Maler Kotla, Muslims were spared by Sikhs only because it is believed that one of the Sikh Guru was spared by Muslims when they were going about killing everyone.

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Postby sanjaykumar » 18 May 2008 20:38

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 03,00.html

Outraged India set to expel migrants


They will never have to cross the border with BD. They will be welcomed in West Bengal where they will raise the internationalist credentials of the great Bengali intellectual classes.

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Postby Sumeet » 19 May 2008 05:58

We didn't react to terror warning, says top cop


NAGPUR: In a candid confession, Rajasthan DGP Amarjot Singh Gill on Sunday admitted that police did receive copies of the March 2008 issue of a Nagpur weekly – Iman ki Awaaz – which reported that the walled city areas in Jaipur were infested with Wahabi groups and have become a hub of terrorist activities.


Reacting to a TOI report on Sunday on the Nagpur weekly’s disclosures that went unheeded, Gill said, "We could not understand the gravity of the developments in the city and took them more as an outcome of differences between two sects of the community."

He said it is an open secret that Barelvis and Deobandis, the two sects among the Muslims, are at daggers drawn in the city.

The Barelvis allege that a mosque was being used for terrorist activities and that over two lakh people congregated there for a religious function in February.

Police also knew about a dispute between the two sects over the possession of the mosque. "We didn’t take cognizance of this dispute because such conflicts of interests between different sects of the community are commonplace in the entire country," he said.


The Nagpur daily report came after that. "We gathered the report was sent to the weekly by a Barelvi follower," Gill said, explaining why the police doubted its veracity. Also, there was no concrete evidence to suggest there were terrorists in the mosque. "There was nothing to substantiate the news report."

Iman Ki Awaaz is published from Mominpura in the heart of Nagpur. Its March 28 edition warned about the presence of Wahabi group, which believes in violence, might have something to do with a major operation in the Walled City in days to come. Its editor, Mohammed Hameed, on Saturday told TOI that copies of the weekly were circulated to all the important persons of Jaipur, including the CM, DGP and city police chief.


Although the DGP played down the report, police sources said the state intelligence had also warned about possible disturbances in the locality months ago. This prompted the government to order installation of CCTVs in the Walled City areas.

Officials, however, took little interest in the project and, as a result, it got delayed. "The delay has cost us dearly," an officer said.


Meanwhile, activists of Nagpur-based moderate group, Indian Muslim Association Noori (IMAN), were quizzed for about two hours by police top brass here at Tehsil police station on Sunday.

The activists claimed that copies of their Iman Ki Awaz had warned about growing terrorism in Rajasthan and was circulated to all police stations in Nagpur, including the office of the commissioner of police, but authorities chose to ignore them.

'Iman' activists had earlier claimed the weekly mentioning threat to Jaipur from Wahabi Muslims was sent to various authorities in Jaipur as well, including Jaipur’s commissioner of police, Rajasthan CGP and the CM.

"The city police commissioner (Satyapal Singh) denied getting any copy of the edition, we are sure we had given it to him and all police stations. It’s not our fault if he (Singh) did not get to see it," said Engineer Mohammed Hameed of 'Iman', which champions anti-terror ideology.


"I told the police commissioner that the intelligence wing of the city police lacks efficiency as sleuths engaged in the work to collect information from Muslim groups aren’t sincere," Hameed alleged.


"Either the police departments are being misled or useful information is being blocked by unscrupulous personnel in the intelligence wing," he claimed.


When contacted, Singh said, "In all the editorial contents of the four editions of 'Iman Ki Awaz' published in the last six months, the Wahabis have been allegedly associated with terrorism."

The edition said that Rajasthan was reeling under terrorist threat but such generalisation is true for states like UP, Delhi, MP, Maharashtra and Karnataka which have been identified as terror-prone, Singh said and added that there was no specific mention about the serial blasts — just an indication of threat perception.

‘Iman’ activists claimed on Sunday that more regions in different parts of the country including Maharashtra, Delhi and MP face terror threats.

They also claimed that members of terror modules like the Jaish-e-Mohammed, who attacked Parliament in December 2001, find refuge in Delhi’s prominent religious institutions.

"Apart from Delhi, JeM is fast spreading its activities in Dhulia and Nandurbar districts of Maharashtra," said Hameed said.

Hameed also claimed that there is information about growing activities of the banned outfit of Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) in Vidarbha including Pusad (Yavatmal district), Badnera (Amravati), Balapur (Akola) and Wardha. Similarly, terror networks are active in Seoni, Indore, Ujjain, Bhopal and Jabalpore in MP, Hameed claims.

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Not just a claim, a manifesto for jihad

Postby G Subramaniam » 19 May 2008 06:46

http://www.hindu.com/2008/05/17/stories/2008051754761100.htm

Not just a claim, a manifesto for jihad

Praveen Swami

E-mail sent by the Jaipur bombers offers glimpses into the mind of terror.

Ever since newspaper and television stations received an e-mail from the terrorists who carried out the Jaipur serial bombings, commentators have busied themselves searching for messages hidden amidst its text.

In fact, the e-mail couldn’t be more transparent: as its authors assert at its outset, the document mailed to the media quite simply is the “Indian Mujahideen’s Declaration of Open War Against India.â€

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Postby munna » 19 May 2008 06:55

nkumar wrote:I don't remember exactly but even in Maler Kotla, Muslims were spared by Sikhs only because it is believed that one of the Sikh Guru was spared by Muslims when they were going about killing everyone.


Actually the Nawab of Maler Kotla had tried to save the younger sahibzadas (sons of 10th Guru, Guru Gobind Singhji) from the sword of governor of Sirhind. Needless to say Sirhind was destroyed forever as a prime city of India to avenge the death of sahibzadas and Maler Kotla received the amnesty of sikhs for all times to come. Lesson of the story, meet fire with fire but show mercy where required by dharma. :)

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Global Incident Map

Postby vishal » 19 May 2008 14:12

Not much to do with the Jaipur blast except that it reflects on the map but this website offers a good visual depiction of known terrorist incidents across the world. Kind of like a GUI which sys admins love.

http://www.globalincidentmap.com/home.php

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Postby SBajwa » 19 May 2008 19:11

I don't remember exactly but even in Maler Kotla, Muslims were spared by Sikhs only because it is believed that one of the Sikh Guru was spared by Muslims when they were going about killing everyone.


This is again a manifestation of Dhimmitude.

Guru Gobind Singh created Khalsa in 1699 March 31st. Then Mughals wanted his land through their Governors of Sarhind and Lahore.

Mughal Governor of Sarhind was Wazir Khan.
Mughal governor of Lahore was son-in-law of some Delhi mughal.

Wazir Khan of Sarhind has many "Nawabs" under him. Which included the Afghan/Pathan colony named "Malerkotla" in now Sangrur district about 50Km south of Patiala towards Rajasthan. This colony was ruled by a Pathan named Sher mohammad Khan.

Wazir Khan got all of his Nawabs and their forces together and invaded Guru Gobind Singh at Anandpur (close to Chandigarh).

Guru Gobind Singh successfully defended the fort for over 8 months.., but at the end he was pursuaded by his Sikhs to abandon the fort, mughals insisted on their Quran that they are only interested in fort and will not touch the Sikhs or the family of Guru Gobind Singh.

Guru Gobind singh's family was attacked by the Mughals and his 6 year old and 9 year old sons Named Zorawar singh and Fateh Singh were arrested along with Guru Gobind Singh's mother. They were imprisoned at Sarhind.

Wazir Khan wanted the Guru Gobind Singh's sons to become Muslim both 6 and 9 year old refused., then the maulavi came out with punishment from Quran to walled the children alive.

At this point the Nawab of Malerkotla said something to Wazir Khan and left the court. And for only this reason is why Sikhs have spared Malerkotla. Both the young Sons were martyred by mughals in december of 1705 A.D.

But Malerkotla continued to support Mughals... and when Mughals of Delhi were weakened they supported Abdali.

in 1764 they were assisted Abdali in sorrounding whole Sikh force of 50,000 or around Malerkotla a place called Kup. In one day Abdali massacred so many people that till date this event in Sikh history is called "Wadda Ghalughara" i.e. "The greater struggle".

So... sparing the Pathans of Malerkotla is again IMHO out of Dhimmitude so much ingrained in our psyche.

And this equal-equal BS that Bombs have no religion is again result of Dhimmitude.

Equal-Equal will be when bombs planted by Hindus kill the exact same number of people as the bombs planted by Muslims.
Last edited by SBajwa on 20 May 2008 00:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sanjaykumar » 19 May 2008 23:23

And this equal-equal BS that Bombs have no religion is again result of Dhimmitude.

Equal-Equal will be when bombs planted by Hindus kill the exact same number of people as the bombs planted by Muslims
.

In India, Pakistan or Makkah?

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Postby Prem » 19 May 2008 23:41

Bajwa Sahib , i did not know that Pathans of Malerkotla were involved in Ghallugara.
AFAIK,
The ruler of Malerkotla did his Raj Dharm by providing protection to local population. This was no dhimmitude but still there should have been population transfer like it happend with Hindus and Silkhs from across the currnet border. .

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Postby SBajwa » 20 May 2008 00:17

by Sanjay Kumar
In India, Pakistan or Makkah?


Well!! Pakistan and Makkah are off limits to Sikhs and Hindus due to the mistakes committed by their ancestors and old politicians. Hindus and Sikhs at this point can only retaliate in India, UK, Canada, USA and Australia (may be some places in Africa).


Prem,

You are right!! Even today!! Tehsil of Malerkotla is the only place in East Punjab with majority of Muslim population. W

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Postby indygill » 20 May 2008 00:31

Prem wrote:Bajwa Sahib , i did not know that Pathans of Malerkotla were involved in Ghallugara.
AFAIK,
The ruler of Malerkotla did his Raj Dharm by providing protection to local population. This was no dhimmitude but still there should have been population transfer like it happend with Hindus and Silkhs from across the currnet border. .


No that is not true Bajwa is correct - it is dhimmitude and no protection was provided to non-islamic population of the area by him. infact the nawab continued the Jihad..... they were all part of the sufi jihad.....

Nawab Sher Mohammad Khan, the chief of Malerkotla was present during sentencing of Gurus sons. Yes he pleading to Nawab Wazir Khan not to punish (by death) kids for the sins of their father and they were too young.

Fact is that Sher Mohmmad Khan was killed in the battle of Chappar Chiri in 1710 AD while fighting against Banda Singh Bahadur !!!!

If this Nawab was so pioused and he had Guru's blessing and above all Guru owed him so much than why would Banda Bahadur kill him?????????????.

It was only in the later half of 18th century when Sikhs got political power that Malerkotla was preserved as a Muslim State. Why? only God knows... but it was not because the local muslims of the time were any compassinate or were anti-jihad....they were not!!!

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Postby Prem » 20 May 2008 04:37

I was under the impression that in 47 Sikh ruler of Malerkotla did his duty to protect his people. This was not Dhimitude but Dharma, so he did right . Dhimitude is to keep them , they should have been sent across Wagha to Lahore just like other millions of Hindus and Sikhs who lost the right to stay in their ancestral land.

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Postby SBajwa » 20 May 2008 05:58

Sikh ruler of Malerkotla in 1947 was the Maharaja of Patiala (Bhupinder Singh) who was also the leader of the indian princes. I think he might have saved the muslims of malerkotla.

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Postby Prem » 20 May 2008 07:06

SBajwa wrote:Sikh ruler of Malerkotla in 1947 was the Maharaja of Patiala (Bhupinder Singh) who was also the leader of the indian princes. I think he might have saved the muslims of malerkotla.


Those under protection shall not be harmed . This is ancient Indian Dharmic tradition. King Shibii gave his own flesh to Hawk in exhange for a pigeon under his protection.
Maharaj Patiala did his duty in 47 to protect his Praja. In 48 , they should have been sent to Bakistan . Allowing them to stay is Dhimmitude as just like them helping Abdali , they will help Abdali's babies in Pakistan.

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Postby Karan Dixit » 20 May 2008 13:21


Jaipur blasts: Suspects sketches to be redrawn


link

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Postby Karan Dixit » 20 May 2008 13:26


Nine FIRs lodged in Jaipur blast case


link

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Postby Uttam » 20 May 2008 19:33

I do not have any partisan intent when I am posting this. But this lady is a born leader. I really wish one day she be at the center and possibly Prime Minister.

[url=http://www.indianexpress.com/story/311771.html]Rajasthan Chief Minister Vasundhara Raje

'It makes no sense... If you (the Centre) can allow it (an anti-terror law) in Maharashtra, why not in Rajasthan?'[/url]

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Postby Mahendra » 20 May 2008 19:48

^^^

Well IF the Gujarat Elections are anything to go by your wish might just turn into reality. 5 Years of rule by people with spotless reputations and a vision for a mdoern India should be enough to solve a lot of our problems.

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Postby enqyoobOLD » 20 May 2008 20:05

The Rajasthan BJP guvrmand may be "spotless" but I wouldn't accuse them of having a whole lot of anything else either, like smarts.

This Raje and Co were stupid enough to entertain the HahVahd Latrine School Experts and kiss up to them when they came to India. Anyone with any smarts would have kicked them out. Also, they had all those pleasantries between tribes there, and it's still not over.

Overall, a gang that is great at scoring self-goals. I don't hold out much hope for them in future elections, despite all the help from the Pakis through the blasts etc.

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Postby Rye » 20 May 2008 20:07

"A gang that is great in self goals" -- nice description. A lot of testosterone but not enough acetylcholine.

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Postby Mahendra » 20 May 2008 20:15

True Saars

I would still hope for the BJP/NDA to be in power than Congress(Islamic) and CPI(Momin).

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Postby sanjaychoudhry » 20 May 2008 20:52

Also, they had all those pleasantries between tribes there, and it's still not over.


The pleaseantries between the two castes -- Gujjars and Meenas -- were initiated by Sachin Pilot, Rajesh Pilot's son, from his constituence Dausa in Rajasthan. That is from where the Gujjars are still being mobilised against the BJP. It is nothing but a dangerous Congress plot that may spin out of control and the Gujjars and Meenas may end up slaughtering each other.

This was the same tactic that the Congress played against Modi in Gujarat by rallying Patels of Saurashtra against him just before elections. It is congress mischief through and through but Vasundhra Raje handled it admirably by neutralising the Gujjar leadership. There was a real threat of civil war between the two communities that would have spread outside Rajasthan as Gujjars exist in substantial numbers in Delhi, Haryana, UP and MP too apart from Rajasthan.

This is the wonderful result when "diversity in government" is promoted through reservation, as you suggested in another thread.

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Postby shyamd » 20 May 2008 21:36

Ajai Shukla: Killing questions about terrorism

The 1st of June 2006 seemed like an unusually good day for the police: three heavily armed Pakistani fidayeen were shot dead while storming the RSS headquarters in Nagpur. Alert policemen had apparently forestalled a massacre within the complex; and a communal bloodbath across India.


In fact, that one-sided fire fight was the climax to a superb Indian intelligence operation. The terrorist cell that aimed to set RSS blood boiling had been deeply infiltrated; an intelligence mole risked his life to pass on every detail of the coming attack. He should, but will never, publicly receive a medal from the President. Others like him work anonymously to thwart most terror attacks that are planned against Indian targets.


But our intelligence agencies failed to predict the Jaipur blast conspiracy, which took 80 lives last Tuesday. The important question — of why couldn't the agencies zero in beforehand — has been lost in the destructive finger pointing that characterises the Indian response to such tragedy. As always, the post-mortem has revolved around political charges and counter-charges: the revocation of POTA; being "soft on terror" Bangladeshi migrants; and the need to press Pakistan for action against terror.

Not one politician or public figure has asked: why are just 20,000 people authorised to an Intelligence Bureau (IB) that is charged with the security of a billion people? Even if every IB employee was a field operative, of the kind that infiltrated the Nagpur cell, each would need to watch over 50,000 Indians. In fact, barely 2,000 of the IB's employees are field operatives; the remainder are tied up in administration — manning headquarters, liaison with bureaucracy, budgeting and accounting, and the myriad tasks that the government creates for itself.

Nor has anyone questioned why the already understaffed IB has 4,000 employees less than it is authorised. The numbing answer: an "optimisation scheme" to cut down on government employees froze recruitment for several years.

Not a single politician has asked why the recommendations of a Group of Ministers (GoM), constituted after the Kargil intelligence debacle, have not yet been implemented. Recommendations to expand the IB at the ground level; to set up Joint Task Forces for Intelligence (JTFIs) in each state; and to create a Multi Agency Centre (MAC) to bring together, compare and assess intelligence from different agencies; all these gather dust while terrorists gather strength.

Nor are there questions about why attempts to strengthen intelligence agencies immediately founder on the rocks of bureaucracy. Police and intelligence officers swear this is the dastardly handiwork of the "IAS lobby". Whether or not there is a deliberate design here, requests for manpower and resources are successfully blocked by endless questions by junior IAS officers about why those are needed. The result: the IB has cobbled together an ad hoc Joint Task Force for Intelligence, without any permanently deputed members, and run with resources gathered from within the agency.

If good intelligence is essential for thwarting terrorist attacks, a well-structured police network picks up early warnings about an impending attack. But ground level policing is even more neglected than intelligence. Societies across the political spectrum — from western-style democracies to authoritarian regimes — divide their territory into police "beats", assigning each a policeperson. That policeperson intimately monitors his beat, which could consist of a market; or a group of houses; or even a couple of villages. In India, though, there are too few policepersons for realistic monitoring.

The country's 11,840 police stations are manned by some 10,12,000 policepersons; each cop must police some 1,000 citizens. In geographical terms, there are 43 cops for every 100 square kilometres; each average beat is more than 2 kilometres long and 1 kilometre wide. But who has heard a politician ask the questions: can a single policeperson effectively cover so many people in such a large area? Why are we not boosting police manpower?

Compounding the shortage of manpower is a legislative framework that is 147 years old: the Police Act of 1861. There have been many failed attempts at creating a new structure: a National Police Commission submitted a report in 1981. In the years that followed, the National Human Rights Commission, the Law Commission, the Ribeiro Committee, the Padmanabhaiah Committee and the Malimath Committee also reported on this issue. A committee under Soli Sorabjee has prepared a model draft Police Act in 2006.

And here political point scoring begins again. Since law and order is a state subject, each state must legislate its own police act. Just ten states — Assam, Bihar, Chhatisgarh, Gujarat, Haryana, Himachal, Karnataka, Kerala, Rajasthan, and Tripura — have actually drafted new police laws. Others, like Tamil Nadu, have complained that the Centre is encroaching into the legislative domain of states.

In 2006, in one of its periodic huffs, the Supreme Court laid down directions for each state to implement before January 1, 2007. These include structures to insulate the police from political interference, and the separation of the investigative wing of the police from its law and order machinery. But the ground reality remains evident in the lack of success in solving — and, therefore, failure to pick up useful information from — the terror attacks in Malegaon (Sep 06), the Samjhauta Express (Feb 07), in Hyderabad's Mecca Masjid (May 07) and Lumbini Park/Gokul Chat (Aug 07), Ajmer Sharif (Oct 07) and now in Jaipur.

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Postby Ardeshir » 20 May 2008 22:13

Wow...the more I read Rediff, the more I am convinced that they have an agenda - to say the least.

The agony of being a migrant in Jaipur

A week after nine bombs killed 66 people in Jaipur, a team of Jaipur police is still verifying the antecedents of the people living at the Bagrana transit camp, about 10 km from the city.

The team has been calling the head of every household and getting details like place of birth, age, and the time they came to India and when they settled in Jaipur.
"We came here to earn a livelihood and nothing more. When the government put us in this Bagrana transit camp, they gave us electricity and promised concrete houses. If they want to throw us out now, why did they do all this for us? They could have thrown us out then itself. Why promise something and take it away like this?" Mohmin Moosa, a 25-year-old Bangladeshi, said.



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Postby enqyoobOLD » 20 May 2008 22:17

Thanks for explaining the Raje govt's role in the Gajjar riots. Glad to hear that - maybe there IS some hope for them. Basically I admire V. Raje a great deal, I just wish they stick to their principles and get the competence to back them up like Modi does.

For instance, what has happened with their anti-conversion law? I had the feeling that they were forced to repeal it - did it survive?

Of course if you really have diversity instead of diverse gangs talking only to themselves, the Gajjars in Delhi would see themselves as Indians first, businesspeople/ tailors / taxidrivers / DOOs etc. next, Delhiites third, and Gajjars a distant twenty-fifth.

The Patels in Gujarat, IIRC, were angry because Modi's rule cruelly cut off the major source of income of many Patels and their friends in the civil service and Sarkari Naukari, where they were getting much baksheesh b4. For that matter, almost N-1 supporters of Modi tried to backstab him for the same reason, but the People tended to vote for him because they could see what he was trying to do for them.

Ultimately this is the solution.
Last edited by enqyoobOLD on 20 May 2008 22:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby enqyoobOLD » 20 May 2008 22:20

an intelligence mole risked his life to pass on every detail of the coming attack. He should, but will never, publicly receive a medal from the President.


There u go - anyone want to comment on the religion of that hero?

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Postby ramdas » 20 May 2008 22:37

Maybe the govt should follow a policy of keeping a strong check on Deobandis/Wahabis. It also seems that there is a lot of resentment among other Indian muslims against Deobandi/Wahabi encroachment. This should be used by the IB etc

In addition, the IB must be dramatically expanded and strengthened. With the puny resources and manpower at their command, they have done a very good job. So, a planned scale up of the IB by a big factor might pay very big dividends as far as controlling terror is concerned.

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Postby sanjaychoudhry » 20 May 2008 22:44

For instance, what has happened with their anti-conversion law? I had the feeling that they were forced to repeal it - did it survive?


They were not forced to repeal it. The current president Pratibha Patil was the governor of Rajasthan before she got the post, and she returned the bill to the Rajasthan government after sitting on it for a year and argued that it should be first sent to the President of India A.P.J. Kalam. This was unprecedented and raised quite a few eyebrows. The bill has now again been passed by the state assembly a couple of months ago and hopefully this time the Congress-appointed governor will sign it. The tragedy is that Patil is now the president of India and the bill will come to her for approval!!

[quote]Religious Freedom Bill passed in Rajasthan

JAIPUR: Despite strong resistance by the Opposition Congress, the Rajasthan Assembly on Thursday passed the contentious Religious Freedom Bill after an acrimonious debate lasting three hours with the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party affirming that the proposed law would check conversions by force and allurement and promote “freedom of conscience.â€

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Postby sanjaychoudhry » 20 May 2008 23:01

Wow...the more I read Rediff, the more I am convinced that they have an agenda - to say the least.

The agony of being a migrant in Jaipur


Great. Now Rediff can do an article on "The Agony of Being a Child Rapist in Tihar Jail."

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Postby surinder » 20 May 2008 23:43

indygill wrote:
Prem wrote:Bajwa Sahib , i did not know that Pathans of Malerkotla were involved in Ghallugara.
AFAIK,
The ruler of Malerkotla did his Raj Dharm by providing protection to local population. This was no dhimmitude but still there should have been population transfer like it happend with Hindus and Silkhs from across the currnet border. .


No that is not true Bajwa is correct - it is dhimmitude and no protection was provided to non-islamic population of the area by him. infact the nawab continued the Jihad..... they were all part of the sufi jihad.....

Nawab Sher Mohammad Khan, the chief of Malerkotla was present during sentencing of Gurus sons. Yes he pleading to Nawab Wazir Khan not to punish (by death) kids for the sins of their father and they were too young.

Fact is that Sher Mohmmad Khan was killed in the battle of Chappar Chiri in 1710 AD while fighting against Banda Singh Bahadur !!!!

If this Nawab was so pioused and he had Guru's blessing and above all Guru owed him so much than why would Banda Bahadur kill him?????????????.

It was only in the later half of 18th century when Sikhs got political power that Malerkotla was preserved as a Muslim State. Why? only God knows... but it was not because the local muslims of the time were any compassinate or were anti-jihad....they were not!!!


SBajwa, Indygill, Prem, Munna:

The version I have have always learnt is a little different:

Sher Mohammad Khan, the nawab of Malerkotla, raised an objection to the brutal killing of young kids of Guru Gobind Singh. Religion of Peace, the relgion that has no compulsion, asked these young boys to convert or die. Sher Mohammad Khan basically said to the Wazir Khan that "Your enmity is with Guru Gobind Singh. It not OK according to the Shariah to kill these young kids." It is said he walked out of the darbar.

When the news reached Guru Gobind Singh about the martyrdom of his young boys in such a fashion, he went quiet and asked if anyone raised an objection. He commented that by rasing his voice, Islam shall survive in Malerkotla.

I do not think it is Dhimmitude, but graciousness of the Sikhs that Malerkotla continues to be ONLY place in Punjab with a large Muslim majority. However small the act of justice was, it was still a stark exception to the prevailing Mughal/Muslim sentiment. Sikhs have tried to repay the gratitude. It is a Sikh personality trait to neve forget a favor.

Our elders tell us that during the partition riots, if a Muslim being chased by Sikhs/Hindus ran and managed to reach Malerkotla, he was spared. Common people spared Malerkotla completely. If someone wants to see what Pakjab is, they need to only go to Malerkotla. There is almost always a minister from Malerkotla in the Punjab. Punjab govt has named many institutes after Nawab Sher Mohammad Khan. There is an engineering school bearing his name.

Local people of Malerkotla, I read in a study, attribute their communal harmony mainly to a Sufi Peer of that area, not as much to Sikhs sense of gratitude.

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Postby surinder » 20 May 2008 23:55

satya wrote:
Anybody care to comment why these jihadis dont dare to do their thing in Punjab


1. Never forgetting history

Jihadists wont ever dare in twin states of Punjab & Haryana .They do have an immortal fear of 'Singh' from both states and during partition , they were specially well cleaned out from these states specially rural areas.

Talk with any Pakjabi abroad , first thing they ask where u from and when u say from either these two states , next question is if ur a Singh and if answer is affirmative, their tone changes to one of respect or fear.


The Muslims of Punjab never thought that there would be counter-riots by the Sikhs and Hindus. They thought that they could cleanse their side of the Kaafirs, but the Izlamic population of Indian Punjab would continue. It is hard to imagine now, but cities of Amritsar, Patiala, Ludhaina were muslim majority towns. They were cleansed out thoroughly. Muslim have never been cleansed out in history (except Spain). This was a shock. They attributed it mainly to the Sikhs.

These events were the last set of memories of Sikhs they have. Departing Muslims from India's lasting impression is Sikhs in turban with blood dripping swords. This also rekindled the long repressed memory of Sikh Raj earlier.

(I have always felt that India could use the Sikh expertise in dealing with Izlamists. More than any community in India, they have more experience and gut level understanding of Izalism.)

Yes, Satya is right. Pakjabi reaction to Sikhs and things related to Sikhism is very markedly different. I had the misfortune to be in a Baisakhi function where the MC was a Pakjabi women (although the function was mostly Indians). She did a good job, but when she was announcing one particular dance troup's name, she stumbled and seemed visibly uncomfortable. The name of the group was "Sardar".

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Postby munna » 21 May 2008 00:24

Surinderji you are spot on, in fact I had given the same account as you of Malerkotla being pardoned by dasham pita. Infact you have to acknowledge his tactical brilliance that by forgiving Malerkotla he told the jihadis as to what behaviour was expected of them. He understood the priceless old adage of Shathe Shathyam which in Game theory is now referred to as the Tit for Tat strategy. Hats of to such a Guruji.

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Postby Prem » 21 May 2008 00:38

You never know the example of Malerkotla might come handy in next decade. :lol: Let there be many Malerkotlas in near future.

Allah has destined Pakjabis to be tail onlee, Afghani or Arabs . Soon they will require protection from both and no hard guess who is going to provide that. The begining is already made by shipping food across the Wagha. With population explosion in coming decades , they will re;y more and more on this side to survive.

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Postby vishnua » 21 May 2008 02:14

Does it make it clear that the need for establishing Khalsa and it's dealing with islam can be replicated across India ( which may not be case given the present situation) ?

It is called Khalsa in Sikhism and can be called someting else in some other religion.

What khalsa did was focus, unity,clearly defined common enemy and pay back with interest and of course far less traitors with selfish goals.

Remember this happened after 10 generations.That is good thing about Khalsa and unfortunate thing about rest of the population is that it was not across board but only in certain areas due to variety of reasons.

The first two principles (in the sentence before) were lacking when necessary with the other population hence the problem still persists.

There are still pockets where it happened during partition but not as wide scale as Pujab/Haryana.

Like Dr Shiv said Hindus are suckers for shahhed.. Remember most if not all the members of Khalsa came from same religion. What they got after joining the Khlasa was present special forces priniciples and values in certain aspects.

It can be duplicated anywhere with the same principles. Same thing happened in Spain as well.

btw..just trying to lay the foundation/framework along with the methods.

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Postby vishnua » 21 May 2008 02:22

surinder wrote: She did a good job, but when she was announcing one particular dance troup's name, she stumbled and seemed visibly uncomfortable. The name of the group was "Sardar".


It is worse than Crusader to Arabs. It is all depply ingrained in psycology Atleast Arabs (Actually Kurd - Suleman) took back Jerusalm. But pakjabi never took back anything from Sardars like that.

Paul
i think once posted the Afghan site in which the history section contained all the rulers who ruled Afghanistan.

Only non-muslim was One eyed Sardar. He was referred to as One eyed murdered (literally). We need more of them in principle from India . Does not matter where they come from (which religion) as long as they are from within India.

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Postby Prem » 21 May 2008 03:12

Vishnua,
Present secular dictatership will not allow any Khalsa type/ dharma rooted movement across the board in India . The exit of Psuedo is theprerquisite for any desired good change. Kangressi culture is eating out our roots and weakning us day by day from 47 onward.


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