Jaipur blasts -2

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Postby milindc » 21 May 2008 05:56

sanjaychoudhry wrote:
Wow...the more I read Rediff, the more I am convinced that they have an agenda - to say the least.

The agony of being a migrant in Jaipur


Great. Now Rediff can do an article on "The Agony of Being a Child Rapist in Tihar Jail."


Quote from the article
Indians like him are not the only ones who are miffed at the police action. Even Bangladeshis who had settled in Jaipur long ago are worried.
No sir, Only Indians need to worry, not Bangladeshis.

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Postby csharma » 21 May 2008 07:32

Why are Indians getting worried by steps that will help security. The union Home Ministry had identified illegal bangladeshis as a security threat to the country. So, I do not understand what the issue is?

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Postby sum » 21 May 2008 08:53

The only issue is kangressi votebank....

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Postby bubba » 21 May 2008 10:20

At Friday prayers, imams to slam terror

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/At_Friday_prayers_imams_to_slam_terror/articleshow/3057495.cms


The Movement Against Terrorism (MAT), a new front of moderate clerics, will exhort imams at mosques across north India to use the Friday prayer to speak out against the murderous Islamic groups.

"MAT, as per it charter, is a fight against terrorism. A fight against the international conspiracy to paint the entire Muslim community as terrorists. A fight against those who justify bombings and blasts as a ‘revenge’ under Islam,"

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Postby munna » 21 May 2008 15:44

Guys I guess you all are mistaking a cultural divide for religious one, Punjab (Unified in 1947) included Haryana, Punjab and Himachal Pradesh was a Hindu majority area. The massive killings that took place were shared in reasonable proportion amongst Hindus and Sikhs or rather us Punjabis. Its just that the Kangressis tried to later give a bad name to Sikhs through their pet historians by laying entire blame at their feet, which being a Punjabi Hindu I shall have to strongly refute. Punjabi Hindus have very strong affiliations to 10 Gurus and believe in them very strongly. What Punjab did in 1947 was condemned by Gandhi and other Kangressis because whole of Punjab refused to buy into the dhimmi propoganda of Kangress unlike the other state that got partitioned (I dont want to be parochial).

What happened in Punjab was a simple question of our PAGRI (Turbans which both Hindu and Sikh wear, old timers may recall) and when the crunch time came Jihadis were paid back not in the same but even more savege and larger coin. :twisted:

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Postby sauravjha » 21 May 2008 16:06

yes it is correct that Punjabi Hindus respected the 10 gurus and if I am not mistaken there was a norm among many families (especially Arora's ) to give their eldest son to Sikhism. Haryana, HP et al broke away on a linguistic and economic basis in 1956.


Bengal did not buy any Kangress bullshit . It was left with a fait accompli and was badly done in during partition.

What happened in Punjab was a simple question of our PAGRI (Turbans which both Hindu and Sikh wear, old timers may recall) and when the crunch time came Jihadis were paid back not in the same but even more savege and larger coin


yes , but when it came to taking help from the Jihadis in the eighties , the question of Pagri turned a certain section of sikhs into anti-nationals. let us not forget that.

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Postby Mahendra » 21 May 2008 16:16

Bismillah !!

Youm E Flame bait

IB4TL

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Postby munna » 21 May 2008 16:37

I think the thread is about Jaipur blasts and our reaction to them in historical and geo-political context. I tried to explain the Punjabi reaction to Jihadi terrorism that was perpetrated against Punjab by them for past 8 centuries. 1980s were a time of great mismanagement by Gandhi family and as soon as they lost power both in party and in Lok Sabha the things normalized fairly quickly. Those terrible days were another ball game altogether. Even during those days I am proud to say a lot of Sikhs came out openly to defend India and Punjabiyat and lost their lives in the process. Sauravji let us not denigrate any part of India they all make up our Bharat the Mahan country that it is. Forumites on a more serious note let us develop a manual or a guide to help common man deal with such situations (bomb blasts etc) if they are unfortunate enough to find themselves in one. It must include the various responses like first aid, evacuation techniques etc so that atleast some people are their ready to do their bit.

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Postby Mahendra » 21 May 2008 16:39

Wasn't talking about you munnabhai

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Postby sauravjha » 21 May 2008 16:42

I think the thread is about Jaipur blasts and our reaction to them in historical and geo-political context. I tried to explain the Punjabi reaction to Jihadi terrorism that was perpetrated against Punjab by them for past 8 centuries. 1980s were a time of great mismanagement by Gandhi family and as soon as they lost power both in party and in Lok Sabha the things normalized fairly quickly. Those terrible days were another ball game altogether. Even during those days I am proud to say a lot of Sikhs came out openly to defend India and Punjabiyat and lost their lives in the process. Sauravji let us not denigrate any part of India they all make up our Bharat the Mahan country that it is. Forumites on a more serious note let us develop a manual or a guide to help common man deal with such situations (bomb blasts etc) if they are unfortunate enough to find themselves in one. It must include the various responses like first aid, evacuation techniques etc so that atleast some people are their ready to do their bit.



Your reaction shows that you understood the context in which I made the statement. Neither do i seek to denigrate the sikh community nor do I wish to "flame bait" you. In the earlier iteration of this thread one poster began by calling me a "typical person from Bihar" and that wasn't deemed flame bait somehow.

The fact is circumstances often determine a lot of things and yes the eighties were a different time.

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Postby Mahendra » 21 May 2008 17:19


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Postby CRamS » 21 May 2008 18:27



On this one, Pakis, through their ISI outwtted India, no doubt about it. It punched India on its b@lls just before the meeting circus and on the 10th anniversary of Pokran-II, reminding it not to get too uppity with its IT super power status and nukes and IPL. And the tactic sure evinced respect from India with our guys going and bending down on their knees, and of course, the 'international community' declares India Paki equal equal. Game, set, and match Pakis on this round. Until the next one ...

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Postby surinder » 21 May 2008 20:12

Deleted by self.
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Postby surinder » 21 May 2008 20:27

munna wrote:Guys I guess you all are mistaking a cultural divide for religious one, Punjab (Unified in 1947) included Haryana, Punjab and Himachal Pradesh was a Hindu majority area. The massive killings that took place were shared in reasonable proportion amongst Hindus and Sikhs or rather us Punjabis. Its just that the Kangressis tried to later give a bad name to Sikhs through their pet historians by laying entire blame at their feet, which being a Punjabi Hindu I shall have to strongly refute. Punjabi Hindus have very strong affiliations to 10 Gurus and believe in them very strongly. What Punjab did in 1947 was condemned by Gandhi and other Kangressis because whole of Punjab refused to buy into the dhimmi propoganda of Kangress unlike the other state that got partitioned (I dont want to be parochial).

What happened in Punjab was a simple question of our PAGRI (Turbans which both Hindu and Sikh wear, old timers may recall) and when the crunch time came Jihadis were paid back not in the same but even more savege and larger coin. :twisted:


Munna,

Spot on.

Going against the prevailing Congressi policy of appeasement of poobaah's men, Punjabis (both Hindus & Sikhs) cleaned up the whole of Punjab of them. (While I personally have always felt uncomfortable about it, but over the years have seen the positive effects of that act.) If the rest of the country had followed the Punjabi example, India would be in much much better place right now. The cities of Delhi, Lucknow, Aligarh and all the rest of N. India could have been cleaned up. The window of opportunity existed for almost 3-5 years. Deoband should have been trashed. AMU, where the murderous 2 nation theory was hashed, should have been destroyed.

Unfortunately, most of India chose not to follow the Punjabi example. They, if anything, looked down upon the Punjabis. Punjabis being simple people, not given to a lot of intellectualism, understood the threat from poobaah very well. They understood that by setting up Pakistan, muzims have ceased the right to stay in India proper. They went ahead and imposed their judgement. Mind you, it was not inspired by any leader of any merit (most of them were Congressi, by the way), but it was a grassroot level understanding that the Hindu/Sikh punjabis acted upon.

By keeping poobah's in India, India got the worst of both worlds---it lost strategic territory, and did not even solve the poobah problem. Poobah's walked away with 30% of India, and got a cushy spot in India too. They can live in entire Akhand Bharat---anywhere from Peshawar to Dhacca. Kaafirs cannot.

Consequences of this are there for us to see in 2008. Jaipur is just one in the series---many have happened in the past, and many shall happen in the future.

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Postby ramana » 21 May 2008 22:15

CRamS wrote:


On this one, Pakis, through their ISI outwtted India, no doubt about it. It punched India on its b@lls just before the meeting circus and on the 10th anniversary of Pokran-II, reminding it not to get too uppity with its IT super power status and nukes and IPL. And the tactic sure evinced respect from India with our guys going and bending down on their knees, and of course, the 'international community' declares India Paki equal equal. Game, set, and match Pakis on this round. Until the next one ...


Shows the handiwork of an intelligence agency. When all clues dry up its ususally an intelligence agency thats at the root of it for only they have the resources and skills to leave no traces or misleading traces.

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Postby G Subramaniam » 21 May 2008 22:32

deleted

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Postby Vikas » 21 May 2008 22:46

surinder wrote:
munna wrote:

Going against the prevailing Congressi policy of appeasement of poobaah's men, Punjabis (both Hindus & Sikhs) cleaned up the whole of Punjab of them. (While I personally have always felt uncomfortable about it, but over the years have seen the positive effects of that act.) If the rest of the country had followed the Punjabi example, India would be in much much better place right now. The cities of Delhi, Lucknow, Aligarh and all the rest of N. India could have been cleaned up. The window of opportunity existed for almost 3-5 years. Deoband should have been trashed. AMU, where the murderous 2 nation theory was hashed, should have been destroyed.

Unfortunately, most of India chose not to follow the Punjabi example. They, if anything, looked down upon the Punjabis. Punjabis being simple people, not given to a lot of intellectualism, understood the threat from poobaah very well. They understood that by setting up Pakistan, muzims have ceased the right to stay in India proper. They went ahead and imposed their judgement. Mind you, it was not inspired by any leader of any merit (most of them were Congressi, by the way), but it was a grassroot level understanding that the Hindu/Sikh punjabis acted upon.

By keeping poobah's in India, India got the worst of both worlds---it lost strategic territory, and did not even solve the poobah problem. Poobah's walked away with 30% of India, and got a cushy spot in India too. They can live in entire Akhand Bharat---anywhere from Peshawar to Dhacca. Kaafirs cannot.

Consequences of this are there for us to see in 2008. Jaipur is just one in the series---many have happened in the past, and many shall happen in the future.


Surinder, Just a thought.Punjabis didn't start cleaning up simply becasue Pakistan was created.The clean up thing started only after trains full of murdered Hindus/Sikhs started reaching
Amritsar along with stories of atrocities on Women/Children by Islamic jehadis in Lahore,Peshawar and other small towns.
I remember reading a bit about it in Gen K.Sunderji's Memoiers in THE HINDU.
The other towns I guess never saw those trains or heard stories otherwise rest of the India is not known for their compassion during riots.

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Postby surinder » 21 May 2008 22:47

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Postby munna » 21 May 2008 22:50

Hi GS
Being a Punjabi Hindu its my duty to convey the true picture, friends even I live abroad and come across the Khalistanis in many walks of life. To all forumites I would like to say Khalistanis NOT == Sikhs. Sikhs share a lot and even I must say enhance the greater Hindu philosophical school of thought. The Khalistanis, an attempt of Congress to counter Akalis gone bad were followers of Bhindrawale and regarded him as saint or even reincarnation of Guru Gobind Singhji. This is clearly sacrilege from the point of Sikhism. They (Khalistanis, now confined only to Canada, USA and UK) place photos of Bhindranwala next to Guru Granth Sahib, which again is a big act of sacrilege. Khalistanis are Khalistanis and not Sikhs, whole Punjab knows the valour of Punjab Police in combating the terrorists despite being Sikh majority they never ever flinched from eliminating the threats to the nation. Sikhs never were and never will be anti nationals, they are our pride. They simply cannot be held accountable for the deeds of some Paki/Arab inspired scumbags who were duly taken care of by SIKHS.
Surinderji please throw some more light on the wannabe Arab agenda of the various organizations for the benefit of forumites. :D

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Postby surinder » 21 May 2008 22:54

VikasRaina wrote:Surinder, Just a thought.Punjabis didn't start cleaning up simply becasue Pakistan was created.The clean up thing started only after trains full of murdered Hindus/Sikhs started reaching
Amritsar along with stories of atrocities on Women/Children by Islamic jehadis in Lahore,Peshawar and other small towns.


I stand corrected. You are right. If the Muzlims had let the Sikhs/Hindus stay in Pakistan, the poobaah's would have been allowed to stay in Inian Punjab.


The other towns I guess never saw those trains or heard stories otherwise rest of the India is not known for their compassion during riots.

You may be right, but the story of atrocities reached at least till Delhi (which was not completely cleansed.) The stories must have reached Maharastra, Gujrat, Rajasthan. Karachi was cleansed and the Sindhis dispatched to India. Also, PoK was cleansed (Muzzafarabad had a significant Hindu/Sikh population).

The process of exchange of populations went on for a few years after 1947. The stories had time to percolate to the Gangetic heartland by that time. But it did not make a difference. More importantly, West Bengal must have been first hand witness to atrocities of the poobaah's, they did not cleanse themselves fully.

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Postby Prem » 21 May 2008 23:19

Most of India was under Gandhi's spell in 47 and this made the difference in reaction toward poobahs atrocities. After Gandh came Chacha Nehru and rest is history. Now we have come full cricle back to 48 in 2008,. Tha nks to GOI policies of supressing Indian Spiritual and Cultural traditions rooted in the ancient land and civilization. The root cause of this conflict is the alien elements of medieval Arabic ideology injected in social and political body,

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Postby G Subramaniam » 21 May 2008 23:26

surinder wrote:
VikasRaina wrote:Surinder, Just a thought.Punjabis didn't start cleaning up simply becasue Pakistan was created.The clean up thing started only after trains full of murdered Hindus/Sikhs started reaching
Amritsar along with stories of atrocities on Women/Children by Islamic jehadis in Lahore,Peshawar and other small towns.


I stand corrected. You are right. If the Muzlims had let the Sikhs/Hindus stay in Pakistan, the poobaah's would have been allowed to stay in Inian Punjab.


The other towns I guess never saw those trains or heard stories otherwise rest of the India is not known for their compassion during riots.

You may be right, but the story of atrocities reached at least till Delhi (which was not completely cleansed.) The stories must have reached Maharastra, Gujrat, Rajasthan. Karachi was cleansed and the Sindhis dispatched to India. Also, PoK was cleansed (Muzzafarabad had a significant Hindu/Sikh population).

The process of exchange of populations went on for a few years after 1947. The stories had time to percolate to the Gangetic heartland by that time. But it did not make a difference. More importantly, West Bengal must have been first hand witness to atrocities of the poobaah's, they did not cleanse themselves fully.


I have a fascinating article by CPI-M on how they worked in refugee camps to brainwash the hindu refugees on not to retaliate against muslims

That being said, there is a character flaw in WB hindus who demonstrate regarding palestine and not about their own relatives who are still getting raped and murdered in bangladesh
This character flaw will lead in a few years to a further islamic partition of WB

IMHO, this character flaw has been in imbibing too much 'secular-progressive'
western theories unlike the more earthy punjabis who saw cause and effect clearly

A critical weakness in the bengali hindu character was when they stopped rioting in response to Gandhi's fast in kolkata

You should watch the kamal hassan movie "hey ram"
about the aftermath of direct action day in kolkata
Incidentally they show sikh rioters massacring muslims shouting
"jai sri akal"

When Gandhi and the murderer suhrawardy come to the balcony
and announce hindu-muslim bhai bhai, the foolish hindu crowd echoes hindu-muslim bhai bhai and the disgusted RSS man says
bakri-kasai bhai bhai

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Postby Vikas » 21 May 2008 23:47

Those idiots who try to run down Brahmans forget that Guru Tegh Bahadur laid down his life to protect Brahmins from Aurengzeb.
He surely knew a few things more about Brahmins than those sprouting venom today.
Guru Govind Singh wrote poems in honor of Devi Chandi.
Above all how can Sikhs be different from Hindus when first 9 Gurus were Hindus.
From personal anecdote, one of my friend who is a Bhalla gets extra respect in her hometown by both Sikhs and non-sikhs because Bhalla's are supposed to be the descendents of 5th Guru.
How can one deny this fact considering that they are Hindus.

and those who think of Sikhs being anti-national need to read their history once again.

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Postby ramana » 22 May 2008 00:08

GS, Surinder and et al, Can you please carry on your discussion elsewhere as this is the Jaipur blasts thread? Thanks, ramana

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Postby SBajwa » 22 May 2008 00:10

How long before Patriotic Indians will hate this inaction by Indian Government ?

Will we see any outrage on streets ever?

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Postby vsudhir » 22 May 2008 00:24

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/fire-shivraj-patil/

Online petition calling for shivraj patil to step down.

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Postby surinder » 22 May 2008 00:46

GS, and others:

Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I later realized that I might have spoken too strongly. My apologies.

I have gone and ahead and deleted the posts.

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Postby Vivek K » 22 May 2008 01:14

Jaipur Blast Suspect Held in Delhi
NEW DELHI: A man suspected to be involved in the Jaipur serial blasts, which killed over 60 people and injured more than 200, was arrested here late Wednesday, police said.

The militant, whose identity was not revealed, was nabbed from Chelmsford Road, the stretch leading to New Delhi Railway Station from Connaught Place, at around 8:30 pm.

The arrest by Delhi Police's Special Cell came following a tip off from intelligence agencies.

"There was an intelligence input that a militant is coming to Delhi," Deputy Commissioner of Police (Special Cell) Alok Kumar told reporters.

Kumar refused to provide the identity of the militant or where he came from.

"We have just started interrogating him. We cannot reveal everything now," he added.

The militant's arrest here comes in the backdrop of serial blasts in the Pink City last week.

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Postby G Subramaniam » 22 May 2008 05:21

surinder wrote:GS, and others:

Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I later realized that I might have spoken too strongly. My apologies.

I have gone and ahead and deleted the posts.


I am aware that you are a sincere person and I dont get offended

G.S

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Postby Karan Dixit » 22 May 2008 09:56

JAIPUR: Rajasthan Police on Wednesday released a 3-dimensional sketch of a 24-26-year-old clean-shaven fair complexioned man who is a key suspect behind the May 13 serial blasts that killed 65 people in Jaipur.

link

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Postby surinder » 22 May 2008 10:03

It was asked before, but I want to ask again.

If Gujrat is the reason why the poobah's are perturbed and resorting to violence, then why are the blasts not happening in Gujrat?

If we do a hypothetical what-if scenario, what if Gujrat-2 had happened in Rajasthan after the bombs. Would that have been to the liking of the atankvadis or not? Would that response be something they could live with?

None of the atankvadi attacks seem to be changing India's policies towards Poobahists. I mean, with MMS+Sonia of Cong(I) in power, India is already at the feet of Poobah, what else do they really hope to acheive? In other words, the attacks seem pointless. If anything, it is creating unity and solidarity amongst the Kaafirs. Why the attacks?

Why is the general public not responding with any public protests? They seem to have not told the politicians that they want the BD's gone. Public seems to be sleeping. Anyone know the pulse on the ground?

Why was there absolutely *no* counter violence/riots in Rajasthan? Was it because the army/police was deployed immediately?

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Postby Karan Dixit » 22 May 2008 10:09

The Maulanas, it may be recalled, had sent a directive to all Imams in the state, asking them to make a speech at the end of the Friday prayers in their mosques and request the members of the community not to provide any support to those involved in terrorist activities.

http://www.southasianmedia.net/index_st ... ntry=india

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Postby surinder » 22 May 2008 10:16

Karan Dixit wrote:The Maulanas, it may be recalled, had sent a directive to all Imams in the state, asking them to make a speech at the end of the Friday prayers in their mosques and request the members of the community not to provide any support to those involved in terrorist activities.

http://www.southasianmedia.net/index_st ... ntry=india


Typically, such directives are more for the eyes of the Kaafirs.

I have yet to see a sincere attempt to stop terror/extremism. Ideally, the debate should be an intra-Islaam debate; Kaafirs should be merely flies on the wall. But the situation usually is the opposite.

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Postby paramu » 22 May 2008 10:42

taqiya.

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Postby derkonig » 22 May 2008 10:58

^
absolutely

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Postby Gaurav_S » 22 May 2008 11:54

SBajwa wrote:How long before Patriotic Indians will hate this inaction by Indian Government ?

Will we see any outrage on streets ever?


Myself just tired of this same boring discussion over and over again.

Soon bomb blasts happen in any part of India the other minute we have new thread on BRF. Me too have respect for fellow Indians who were killed but...you know..this keeps repeating. Still India keeps pushing peace talks with our beloved neighbors.

There is no change in government policy or behaviour of aam janta.
Rajasthan police released new sketches of suspects after more then a week but IMO suspects wont be jackass waiting to be arrested and would have flown out of state and probably out of India.

I dont expect any thing from MMS government. There will be no tit 4 tat with this government. Who is wanting full fledged war! Cant there be some other way of fighting this proxy war apart from conventional war?

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Postby madhu » 22 May 2008 12:46

surinder wrote:
Karan Dixit wrote:The Maulanas, it may be recalled, had sent a directive to all Imams in the state, asking them to make a speech at the end of the Friday prayers in their mosques and request the members of the community not to provide any support to those involved in terrorist activities.

http://www.southasianmedia.net/index_st ... ntry=india


Typically, such directives are more for the eyes of the Kaafirs.

I have yet to see a sincere attempt to stop terror/extremism. Ideally, the debate should be an intra-Islaam debate; Kaafirs should be merely flies on the wall. But the situation usually is the opposite.


This will have the same fate what Anti-Terrorism Conference Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband had.
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers27/paper2646.html

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Postby paramu » 22 May 2008 22:38

Why doesn't Rajasthan govt. sponsor a rally to mourn for the victims and also to protest against such terrorist activities. On the rally people should demand stricter laws against terrorism. Ideal time for the rally is the day after final rites of the dead are performed.

This type rallys should become common whenever a terrorist attack happens in the country so that pressure builds on central govt. to support laws and stop pampering to pakis.

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Postby sanjaychoudhry » 22 May 2008 22:51

paramu wrote:Why doesn't Rajasthan govt. sponsor a rally to mourn for the victims and also to protest against such terrorist activities. On the rally people should demand stricter laws against terrorism. Ideal time for the rally is the day after final rites of the dead are performed.

This type rallys should become common whenever a terrorist attack happens in the country so that pressure builds on central govt. to support laws and stop pampering to pakis.


Not thinking along these lines shows the political innocence of BJP compared to Congress.

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Postby skganji » 22 May 2008 23:48

Instead of saying that BJP is innocent, I would say BJP is better than Congress in not using government resources or terrorism related conflicts to spread their party propaganda.
I cannot believe Congress gets away with lot of political non-sense .
The so called congress is not even concerned about the victims of the 1984 riots, but was ready to give away government funds for the victims of the Godhra Riots. What a double standard by these cunning *****s ?.


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