Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

ramana
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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby ramana » 11 Jul 2008 02:56

This is all nice. What I would like ot see is the head of the cell that carried out the attack and separated form the body please. Only that will erase the kids tears.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Sumeet » 11 Jul 2008 03:43

India talks tough on terror at Security Council

Thursday, July 10, 2008 (United Nations)
With India emerging as one of the prime targets of terrorist attacks by Taliban and Al-Qaida in Afghanistan, the Indian Ambassador to the United Nations, Nirupam Sen, did some tough talking before the Security Council on Wednesday afternoon.

Reflecting India's growing sign of confidence at the international forum and its emergence as a world power, addressing a special meeting of the Security Council on Afghanistan, Sen in blunt language opposed the recent peace deals between the Pakistan government and the tribal leaders who are known to provide shelter and support to the Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

''We can't succeed if we send mixed signals through bargains for temporary and local peace while the rest of us contend with the consequences of such deals,'' Sen told the Security Council during his forceful presentation, which lasted for more than ten minutes.


Pakistan Foreign Minister Makhdoom Shah Mahmood Qureshi, who was fourth to speak at the meeting, had left the Security Council when India's turn, listed 23rd among 28 speakers, came.

Not surprisingly, with the exception of Qureshi, almost every dignitary who spoke at the Council referred to the terrorist attack on the Indian mission in Kabul.

''The rising trend of attacks, abductions and suicide bombings is also a sign that terrorist groups are emboldened by displays of wavering confidence that such bargains imply, and therefore, hope to weaken our collective resolve,'' Sen said, reflecting openly for the first time India's opposition to such deals.


The United States, which is leading the war against terror in Afghanistan, has already been opposing such peace negotiations.

''We cannot have partial compromises with such forces and yet nurture hopes of prevailing in Afghanistan,'' observed Sen, who leaves for India later this week to brief officials in New Delhi on the aftermath of attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul.

''We remain convinced that there needs to be a much closer alignment between the consistent application of force wherever terrorist groups are present and the political objectives of our efforts in Afghanistan, in which UNAMA (United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan) must play an important role,'' Sen said.

''We needed to convey the message effectively,'' Sen told NDTV.com after the completion of the meeting.


Senior UN diplomats maintained that seldom has India spoken so aggressively on Afghanistan in the post-Taliban era. So far India, which has been massively involved in civilian projects in the infrastructure development, has had a low profile at the UN or the Security Council.

However, with the attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul early this week killing more than 50 people and increasing instances of terrorist attacks and kidnapping of Indian engineers and workers in Afghanistan, it was time that India exerted its voice at Security Council.

In fact, speeches of representatives of other countries including almost all Security Council members reflected that the world body agreed with the assertions made by Sen.


Almost all the speakers at the Security Council meeting on Afghanistan, which lasted for more than three hours, not only strongly condemned the suicide attack outside the Indian Embassy in Kabul, a high security zone, but also said that this reflected the growing power of the Taliban and Al-Qaida in Afghanistan and the border regions of Pakistan.

''Insurgents and terrorists have grown more effective and more aggressive, most recently in the cowardly and despicable attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul,'' the US Ambassador to the UN, Zalmay Khalilzad said.

The Russian Ambassador too expressed his concern over deteriorating security situation in the country.

Afghan Foreign Minister Rangin Dafdar Spanta reiterated that the allegation of the support to terrorists was coming from across the border.

''Those who are behind the Taliban and Al-Qaida had enhanced their support, increased the pace and scope of terrorist activities and shifted their focus to Afghanistan as a part of their psychological war to sabotage the peace process in the country and affect regional and global public opinion,'' he said.

''One of the contributing factors was the de facto truce in the tribal areas beyond the border,'' Spanta said.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby putnanja » 11 Jul 2008 03:56

PM announces relief for ITBP men killed in Kabul attack

Srinagar, July 10: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Thursday visited AIIMS to enquire about the condition of two ITBP personnel injured in Monday’s suicide attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul.

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He announced Rs 2 lakh each from the Prime Minister’s Relief Fund for their treatment. Both the personnel are admitted in the AIIMS’ trauma centre.

The Prime Minister also sanctioned Rs 5 lakh each to the families of two ITBP personnel — Ajai Pathania and Roop Singh — and an Afghan national killed in the bomb attack. The Afghan national was working as watchman at the embassy.

Singh will on Friday call on the families of Defence Attache Brigadier R D Mehta and Counsellor Venkateswara Rao, who were killed in the attack.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby KLNMurthy » 11 Jul 2008 04:40

SSridhar wrote:Embassy bombing may be mischief

An attack where a suicide attacker kills 58 people and injures over 200 is a mere mischief ?

It could be also Pakistani misinformation to deflect blame and portray themselves as victims as they always do. However, if it were true, I will have no sympathy for suffering masses of NATO countries in future Islamist jihadi visitations.
Nato commanders in Afghanistan believe India and Pakistan were indirectly playing into the hands of the Taliban or some other “third force” by blaming one another for terrorist activities against each other.

Highly-placed diplomatic sources in Islamabad and Kabul have said Nato commanders and some important Western diplomats were trying their best to remove misunderstandings between the two neighbours.

Misunderstandings were created after a suicide attack on the Indian Embassy on Monday in which Indian military attache Brigadier Mehta and political councillor Venket Rao were killed along with 41 others.

Nato commanders were of the view that both Kabul and Islamabad were target of terrorists as the Islamabad police was targeted just one day before the attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul. Nato officials appreciated that Pakistan never blamed India for the Islamabad bombing but the Indian media was quick to blame Pakistan by quoting “Afghan sources”. {This is most outrageous and ridiculous statement I have heard recently.}


I just want to point out that Pak journalists, generally speaking, have no concept of honest or substantive reportage in any standard use of the term. There is nothing whatsoever in the article (quotes, or even an anonymous 'background' attribution) to indicate that NATO commanders have indeed expressed such a sentiment. Most of these reporters are just inept buffoons who spin their articles about India in a way that will only fool someone of their intellectual caliber.

Interestingly, a great many Pakistani reports speculated that the attacks in Karachi are India's doing in retaliation for the Kabul attack. I would read that as these too-clever-by-half morons tripping themselves up in an attempt to stick their miserable blowback troubles on India.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Babui » 11 Jul 2008 06:18

A reason for the fast recovery and lack of structural damage to the mission building was a new security barrier put up by India last week after intelligence inputs indicated a major attack. The hexa-barrier, a thick wire mesh-and-mud barrier covering the embassy on all sides, absorbed the major impact of the blast and saved the building from serious damage.


The photo in Skanda's post in the previous page has a picture of this "hexa-barrier". Amazingly - it has no damage on it - while all around it is complete destruction. This "hexa-barrier" could really be the answer.....(maybe drape it over buildings etc).

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Raju » 11 Jul 2008 09:14

India's relationship with United States should be a 'progressing marginal returns' relationship. If the 'marginal returns' are not forthcoming then relations with US do not hold any charm.

Keeping the marginal returns relationship in perspective, our next step is to build a bigger image in Afghanistan than we have at present. If it clashes or competes with US interests in Afghanistan then it's an abrogation of this basic principle of our relationship viz increasing marginal returns. If at least this much benefit cannot be derived from having relations with US, who intends to be a player in the neighbourhood then for all intents and purposes it would be safe to consign this budding relationship to the dustbin. It is then incumbent that we shall go our own way and strike relationships with forces that could be inimical to US interests. This much should be made absolutely clear to them.

Comments such as the one made by Robert Gates should be considered a serious infraction and devaluation of this relationship.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby sum » 11 Jul 2008 09:56

In an alert issued on June 26, RAW’s Afghanistan desk warned that an attack on the embassy was imminent. The alert said the attack would most likely be executed in the first week of July, using a white Toyota sports utility vehicle. RAW also said terrorists were considering strikes on Indian assets elsewhere in Afghanistan, including the consulate in Mazhar-e-Sharif.

Government sources in New Delhi said RAW’s alerts were based on communications intelligence and source reports on the activities of a Pakistan-based jihadist cell with close links to the Lahore-based Lashkar-e-Taiba. However, the sources declined to give further details on the affiliation, composition or objectives of the cell.


Atleast proves that how much ever me malign our intelligence agencies, they sure are doing their job well in A'stan......hats off to you unseen brave warriors....
Sad though that the tragedy couldnt be prevented inspite of such specific intel... :cry:

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Johann » 11 Jul 2008 10:15

Babui wrote:
A reason for the fast recovery and lack of structural damage to the mission building was a new security barrier put up by India last week after intelligence inputs indicated a major attack. The hexa-barrier, a thick wire mesh-and-mud barrier covering the embassy on all sides, absorbed the major impact of the blast and saved the building from serious damage.


The photo in Skanda's post in the previous page has a picture of this "hexa-barrier". Amazingly - it has no damage on it - while all around it is complete destruction. This "hexa-barrier" could really be the answer.....(maybe drape it over buildings etc).


Its a Hesco barrier, which is the name of the British company that invented them about 20 years ago.

They are amazing both in terms of their ability to absorb explosive impact, and the ease with which they can be set up.

They've been a standard in field base protection for Coalition ops for over a decade now. RPGs, mortar rounds, rockets, VBIEDs, heavy machine guns, it will take them all.

They are basically a synthetic covered collapsible steel mesh cage in to which you dump earth, which is the best and most cost effective blast barrier. Like giant sandbags really, but faster to fill and move, and much more flexible and stackable thanks to the structural integrity that the steel mesh provides.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby ramana » 11 Jul 2008 10:30

Couple of links to add to Johann's insight

Hesco Bastion

and wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesco_bastion

Shows how it gets filled with sand.

Thanks Johann.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Rupesh » 11 Jul 2008 11:43

Sources confirmed that the Indian embassy would be moved out of its current location to a more secure location in the Wazir Akbar Khan area, complete with a two-layer bomb-proof barricade, by the end of next year. For now, a section of its offices will move to a temporary location.

There has been a long-standing plan to eventually shift the embassy to a new location but the project has now been accorded top priority and work is set to start within the next four weeks. While India had sanctioned money to build a larger and more secure mission in the city in 2005, the project never kicked off as builders in Kabul were not willing to take on the work order.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/334190.html

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Nayak » 11 Jul 2008 11:46

MMS visited the families of Brigadier R D Mehta and IFS officer V Venkateswara Rao.

The prime minister on Thursday announced a life-time financial support to the families of Mehta, India's defence attache, and Rao, counsellor (political and information).


Good, but what about offering condolences and support to the familes of those two ITBP jawans ?

They don't count I guess.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Babui » 11 Jul 2008 18:16

There was a news article earlier that the families of the two ITBP jawans as well as the family of the Afghan watchman would receive Rs 5 lakhs each. I'm sure ITBP would have insurance monies too for the family.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby sunilUpa » 11 Jul 2008 18:34

PM visits ITBP jawans injured in Kabul blast

NEW DELHI: Amid hectic schedule on Thursday, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh visited AIIMS to enquire about the health of two ITBP jawans injured in Monday’s suicide attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul.

The two jawans were airlifted from Afghanistan and are currently undergoing treatment at the AIIMS trauma centre. He spoke to the doctors attending on the jawans and gave personal instruction for their special care.


I would like him and/or Raksha mantri visit families of two ITBP personnel who gave up their lives. However this is a welcome change.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Johann » 11 Jul 2008 19:38

With regards to NATO's relationship with Pakistan;

The current logistics set up plays a role in limiting just how hard NATO can push Pakistan in the open, but that will see positive change.

Most of the fuel that keeps NATO vehicles and helicopters running, and most of the food that goes down NATO troops gullets passes overland from Karachi port to the Khyber pass.

Military supplies on the other hand reach Afghanistan by air from the north.

If NATO forces are to expand supply becomes even more critical.

NATO knows that its supply chain through Pakistan is *extremely* vulnerable to disruption, but Russia had for years blocked an overland route from Europe to Afghanistan.

At the Bucharest NATO summit in April Russia finally lifted its objections, and NATO is working on an overland rail route that will pass through Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.

The Taliban's resurgence is seriously frightening the Russians and the Central Asian Republics. They do not want to see a NATO withdrawal, and a return back to the situation of early 1996-2001.

Its going to take a few more months of negotiations with all the ex-Soviet countries involved, and some technical work and logistical planning, but Pakistan's logistical importance to the NATO mission will sharply decrease within 12 months.
Last edited by Johann on 11 Jul 2008 19:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby ramana » 11 Jul 2008 19:44

Nayak, Thats uncalled for. He did offer condolences to the ITBP jawans first. I would like Delhi BR members to put their heads together and see what can be done from BR side atleast for the families of the two ITBP people.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby CRamS » 11 Jul 2008 19:58

Johann wrote:With regards to NATO's relationship with Pakistan;

The current logistics set up plays a role in limiting just how hard NATO can push Pakistan in the open, but that will see positive change.

Most of the fuel that keeps NATO vehicles and helicopters running, and most of the food that goes down NATO troops gullets passes overland from Karachi port to the Khyber pass.

Military supplies on the other hand reach Afghanistan by air from the north.

If NATO forces are to expand supply becomes even more critical.

NATO knows that its supply chain through Pakistan is *extremely* vulnerable to disruption, but Russia had for years blocked an overland route from Europe to Afghanistan.

At the Bucharest NATO summit in April Russia finally lifted its objections, and NATO is working on an overland rail route that will pass through Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.

The Taliban's resurgence is seriously frightening the Russians and the Central Asian Republics. They do not want to see a NATO withdrawal, and a return back to the situation of early 1996-2001.

Its going to take a few more months of negotiations with all the ex-Soviet countries involved, and some technical work and logistical planning, but Pakistan's logistical importance to the NATO mission will sharply decrease within 12 months.


And so, NATO winks, winks, nudges, nudges, TSP to satisfy their blood thrist by slaughtering Indians. And even overt support and protection to TSP --- See Gates statement. And NATO claims to be fighting GOAT with TSP as 'front line ally'. You want us to puke?

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby sunilUpa » 11 Jul 2008 20:05

Just wondering what would be the effect of a regime change in Iran on US/NATO relationship with TSP. :wink:

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby vsudhir » 11 Jul 2008 20:06

CRS,

And so, NATO winks, winks, nudges, nudges, TSP to satisfy their blood thrist by slaughtering Indians. And even overt support and protection to TSP --- See Gates statement. And NATO claims to be fighting GOAT with TSP as 'front line ally'. You want us to puke?


That bit of bad karma won't letoff NATO so easily. The karmic rewards of dancing with jihadis and feeding porki snakes is already beginning to revisit some of TSP's sponsors both in their homelands and around the world, I daresay.

But for India, past is past. Now, don't get me wrong. Am not saying we should forget what happened, who did it, who financed it, and who all merrily winked at it and prodiuced condescending == commentary. We cannot afford to forget at the risk of repeating this sorry history. However, crying over spilt milk isn't terribly helpful either.

Now, from India's POV, better late than never for the life-support to TSP to end. There are scores to settle and the TSP account is a mile high.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby ramana » 11 Jul 2008 20:13

I think we should look forward to tackle present and future threats and challengers. Johann is explaining the NATO dependence on TSP goodwill due to supply chain issues. Once the Russian route opens up there will be some room for manouvere.

And once alternate ring road in Afghanistan opens up then India can use the Iranian ports to supply her support! Until that completes its a holding pattern.

Always read the message and not kill the messnger for that will reduce your chances of getting information.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Johann » 11 Jul 2008 20:14

CRS,

Are you sure who "us" may encompass? A lot of people in NATO want to puke too. NATO routinely loses twice as many people in a week in Afghanistan as India lost in the Kabul embassy attack, and at the hands of the same people.

But without supplies, there can be no presence, and without a presence the situation will revert back to that of 1996-2001. The only people who want that are the Pakistanis and the jihad internationale. Russia's change in attitude towards NATO supply lines is long overdue - a position of logistical dependence on Pakistan certainly was not the preferred choice.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Lalmohan » 11 Jul 2008 20:18

Gates said "I have not seen any evidence... [to link Pakistan]" that does not mean there is no evidence or that others do not know about it. he said it close after the incident and he therefore may have been factually correct at that time. Its only the media and that too pak media who have said 'gates gives clean chit to pakistan' - no one else is claiming anything of the sort. most editorials so far have openly talked about a pakistani connection.

the undercurrent to this is that the new democracy in pakistan is all upar upar se, neeche say kiyani al jehadi is running the show as usual. they are trying to threaten india into a defensive posture ahead of more arm twisting by unkil to move troops around. unkil has to be seen to be supporting all that good democracy stuff na?

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby John Snow » 11 Jul 2008 20:20

Was there any Surveillance video camera in operation? Any footage of movements before the bomb explosion?

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby CRamS » 11 Jul 2008 20:53

Johann wrote:CRS,

Are you sure who "us" may encompass? A lot of people in NATO want to puke too. NATO routinely loses twice as many people in a week in Afghanistan as India lost in the Kabul embassy attack, and at the hands of the same people.

But without supplies, there can be no presence, and without a presence the situation will revert back to that of 1996-2001. The only people who want that are the Pakistanis and the jihad internationale. Russia's change in attitude towards NATO supply lines is long overdue - a position of logistical dependence on Pakistan certainly was not the preferred choice.


According to NATO's ruling class mouthpiece rag Economist:


With 41 dead and 139 injured, it was the deadliest attack in Kabul since the American-led invasion to overthrow the Taliban in 2001. Many of the victims had been queuing for Indian visas but the dead included two Indian diplomats.



So an attack like this on NATO has been unprecdented. NATO would surely have been up in arms had one thier diplomats or military attaches been slaughtered by TSP. Are you sure about NATO losses being so high? I see a lot of Afghans butchered by TSP, which in any case won't cause much of a stutter in NATO circles. Do you disagree with the notion that it is in the interests of both NATO and its terrorist ally TSP that India's influence in Afganisthan be curtailed? And to that end, TSP's hanky panky against India will not only be tolerated by NATO but in fact actively encouraged, abetted and supported?

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Johann » 11 Jul 2008 22:28

CRS,

It's the kind of journalistic sensation thats typical to weekly magazines. Anything that happened this week is worse than anything that has happened before - thats why you *must* buy this week's edition and read it.

- In terms raw casualties, tragically for the people of Afghanistan this was far from being the deadliest suicide bombing in Afghanistan. A suicide bombing in Kandahar province killed over 80 in Febuary. Anothe suicide bombing in Baghlan in November 2007 killed 70+, etc.

- In terms of the profile of the target, the Indian embassy was also part of a pattern. In January of this year suicide car bomber tried to take down the Australian embassy in the Serena Hotel in Kabul. In march of last year suicide car bomber attacked a US diplomatic convoy in Kabul. The month before that a suicide bomber tried to sneak in to Bagram Air base while Dick Cheney was visiting, etc. That these attacks had not actually succeeded in killing senior figures is a)luck and b)the result of procedures developed through catastrophically succesful suicide bombings in places like Nairobi, Daresalam, and Istanbul.

- NATO states have little long term interest in Afghanistan. They didnt pay much attention to the country before the communist revolution of April 1978, and it didnt pay much attention after the Soviets left in 1989, until the 1998 suicide bombings in East Africa.

India's current efforts and interests in Afghanistan are not in any direct conflict with NATO efforts or interests.

This is a big change from the late 1970s and 1980s. Let me put it this way - during the Soviet occupation, the West was invested in defending the Durand Line. Today, the West would accept the union of NWFP and FATA with Afghanistan if that allowed it a freer hand to smash Al Qaeda training camps and hunt down its leadership.

Pakistan on the other hand has historically had huge problems with both Afghanistan and India, and absolutely does not want to see a close relationship between the two.

The greater NATO's reliance on Pakistan for critical logistics, or security co-ordination, or whatever, the greater the Pakistani leverage. Any reduction in Pakistani leverage reduces NATO patience for Pakistani complaints, and thats good for everyone in the world, whether in Milan or Mumbai.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Paul » 11 Jul 2008 22:58

In essence, the above post can be summed up as - NATO is already taking enough casualties so India better keep quiet, suck up and get ready to accept more casualties with Gandhian resignation! no?

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Johann » 11 Jul 2008 23:06

Paul wrote:In essence, the above post can be summed up as - NATO is already taking enough casualties so India better keep quiet, suck up and get ready to accept more casualties with Gandhian resignation! no?


Not at all.

It was suggested here that India is being somehow singled out for particular punishment in Afghanistan. The facts do not support this contention.

There is nothing particularly different about the attack on the Indian embassy, aid workers, etc from those on NATO countries in Afghanistan.

Any country that contributes to Afghanistan's fight against the Taliban is a target and will be treated as such. There's no reason to believe that the praetorian elements of the Pakistani state are any less complicit in attacks on US forces on the Afghan side of the Durand Line, or on the Australian embassy, or Dick Cheny or whomever.
Last edited by Johann on 11 Jul 2008 23:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby ramana » 11 Jul 2008 23:08

TOI reports: Taliban_ISI hand suspected in Kabul attack:Gen Kapoor

I guess its still general even when a General says it!

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby John Snow » 11 Jul 2008 23:20

Bhai Log remember The very same ISI goons in the guise of Taliban executed 5 Iranian diplomats couple of years ago?

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby putnanja » 12 Jul 2008 01:34

Blame ISI for Kabul's woes

Blame ISI for Kabul's woes


KPS Gill

I have repeatedly emphasised the fact that Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence -- as an organ of the country's military and political establishment -- has been, and remains, the principal source of the impetus, the infrastructure and the organisational networks of what is inaccurately called 'Islamist' terrorism across the world. The ISI's sinister shadow looms heavy across the attack on India's Embassy at Kabul on July 7. This has been confirmed at the highest levels in Afghanistan, among others, by the Interior Ministry, which issued a statement asserting that "the Interior Ministry believes this attack was carried out in coordination and consultation with an active intelligence service in the region" -- an obvious reference to the ISI.

It must be abundantly clear, and as clearly recognised by our policy makers and strategists, that such attacks by Pakistan's terrorist proxies will continue -- and will intensify -- against Indian targets in Afghanistan till this war has arrived at a definitive conclusion. Many have written about Pakistan's misconceived quest for 'strategic depth' in Afghanistan as the motive and source of the ISI's persistent mischief in the region. There is truth in this, but only part of it. The reality is, perpetuating instability and weakness in Afghanistan is an existential imperative for Pakistan -- and the reason for this lies, among other elements, preponderantly in the defunct Durand Line.

Legally, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas and the North-West Frontier Province lapsed back into Afghan territory after the termination of the Treaty between Mortimer Durand (on behalf of the British Empire) and Amir Abdur Rahman Khan of Afghanistan, signed in 1893, relinquishing control of these regions to the British for 100 years. Since 1993, consequently, FATA and NWFP are de jure Afghan territory, though they continue to be illegally occupied by Pakistan.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai has described the Durand Line as a "line of hatred separating two brothers", and in June 2008 threatened to send Afghan forces into Pakistan to "rescue the Pashtuns in Pakistan from... cruelty and terror". Successive Afghan Governments have, in fact, rejected the Durand Line since 1949 -- but even the legal foundations of continued Pakistani occupation of FATA and NWFP have dissipated since 1993. This confronts Islamabad with the terrifying possibility of losing one of its four Provinces the moment a stable and strong Kabul consolidates its capacities to press home its legal claim. Consequently, promoting instability in Afghanistan is, and will remain, a critical strategic goal for the establishment in Pakistan.

India, on the other hand, remains irrevocably committed to Afghan stability and strength, and is backing a multiplicity of development projects that impact directly on the country's reconstruction and on the welfare of its people. More significantly, several of these projects directly impact on the Pakistani stranglehold over Afghanistan. The Zaranj-Delaram Road project, which will eventually link Afghanistan to the Iranian Port of Chabahar, is one such critical initiative and will relieve Afghanistan of its complete dependency on Pakistan for the transit of goods -- and provide India a route to channel relief and developmental materials to Afghanistan, currently denied by Pakistan's refusal to concede trade and transit rights across Pakistani territory. Pakistan and its Taliban proxies also remain intractably opposed to road and infrastructure projects because these automatically act as force multipliers for counter-insurgency formations, improving their response time and capacities.

The conflict between the Pakistan-Taliban position, on the one hand, and the Afghan-Indian perspective, on the other, is, therefore, irreducible and no 'peace processes' or 'confidence-building measures' are going to diminish the structural contradictions that underlie violence and terrorism in the region. Nor is any diminution of India's engagement in Afghanistan a credible option. Indeed, if anything, on both humanitarian and strategic considerations, India's involvement in Afghanistan can only increase.

What is required is a hard-headed look at the security of projects and the Indian presence in the country. Two aspects must dominate these concerns -- first, the general security situation in the country, which has shown signs of steadily worsening; and, second, the security of particular areas where Indian projects and establishments are located. It must be recognised that guaranteeing security of all personnel and establishments against the possibility of bomb or missile attacks (the Zaranj-Delaram project has been repeatedly targeted in missile attacks) -- and particularly of suicide bomb attacks -- is extremely difficult. Nevertheless, there are a wide range of protocols and structural considerations that can enormously enhance the protection and safety of potential targets. The principal considerations, here, will be space and technology -- and no mere enhancement of manpower can suffice.

The location and construction of particular buildings and structures needs to be expertly evaluated, and where these are found wanting from the security perspective, necessary adjustments, and in some cases, relocation, will be necessary. The location of critical institutions -- including the Indian Embassy and Consulates -- must be evaluated in terms of available space for effective sanitisation of the approach and perimeter. A wide range of technologies are also available for surveillance and protection of targets, and these can enormously enhance the capacities of the security forces deployed to protect Indian institutions and installations. A measure of proactivity must also be achieved in the security arrangements, allowing a certain degree of peripheral control wherever our people are located, and depending on the strategic requirements of particular projects.

A number of detailed protocols need also to be adopted and strictly enforced. Some already exist, and most Indians working on various projects in Afghanistan have their movements strictly curtailed to ensure protection. In some cases in the past, these protocols have been wilfully ignored with the most unfortunate consequences. This is what happened in the case of the telecommunication engineer, K Suryanarayan, who ignored protocols against travelling alone, and was kidnapped and killed by the Taliban.

In other cases, there may be actual deficiencies in protocol -- and a thorough examination is necessary to determine vulnerabilities. Particularly, it is not clear whether Embassy staff follow regular and easily predictable patterns of movement -- especially when entering or leaving the Embassy premises. From media reports on the Embassy attack it would appear that senior officers were arriving for work at a fixed time, possibly in easily identifiable vehicles, which may have been under observation for some time.

It is necessary that policy-makers understand that when we send men into conflict situations, there is an inevitable risk of loss of life, whatever precautions we may take. This should not discourage us, but should, in fact, make us all the more determined to help a friendly nation and its people out of their present distress.



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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby NRao » 12 Jul 2008 06:40

U.S. Blames Pakistan as Afghanistan Incursions Rise

Partial article, need subscription fro the whole article.

However, the noise should increase.

By Yochi J. Dreazen
Word Count: 621

KABUL, Afghanistan -- U.S. officials have begun blaming Pakistan for Afghanistan's increasing violence, an escalation in rhetoric that suggests American patience with Pakistan's new government is rapidly running out. :rotfl:

Senior American military officials say that the number of militants crossing into Afghanistan from Pakistan has increased sharply in recent weeks because of Pakistan's failure to crack down on the Islamic militants operating freely in its lawless tribal areas.

"I link the increased incidents of violence in Afghanistan in part to those sanctuaries across the border and the ability to send militant groups and fighters into Afghanistan," said Gen. David McKiernan, ...

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby NRao » 12 Jul 2008 06:56

There is nothing particularly different about the attack on the Indian embassy, aid workers, etc from those on NATO countries in Afghanistan.

Any country that contributes to Afghanistan's fight against the Taliban is a target and will be treated as such. There's no reason to believe that the praetorian elements of the Pakistani state are any less complicit in attacks on US forces on the Afghan side of the Durand Line, or on the Australian embassy, or Dick Cheny or whomever.


While NATO is there to fight the Taliban, India is NOT!!! Why is it so difficult to understand that? While the death of foreigners, be they soldiers or health workers has the same meaning from a loss perspective, the intent of these attacks is very, very, very different. India does NOT have a pair of boots to battle anyone there.

Frankly a NATO commander complaining about Pakistan not doing very much to curb cross border attacks rings hollow for India. I am very confident that if the attacks on NATO were to die and those on Indians remain the same we would not hear such complains from NATO commanders. For the West in general has preached tolerance and not subscribed to the cross border attacks in the past ....... until they were attacked.

Sorry for the bluntness.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby NRao » 12 Jul 2008 07:11

In terms of the profile of the target, the Indian embassy was also part of a pattern. In January of this year suicide car bomber tried to take down the Australian embassy in the Serena Hotel in Kabul. In march of last year suicide car bomber attacked a US diplomatic convoy in Kabul. The month before that a suicide bomber tried to sneak in to Bagram Air base while Dick Cheney was visiting, etc. That these attacks had not actually succeeded in killing senior figures is a)luck and b)the result of procedures developed through catastrophically succesful suicide bombings in places like Nairobi, Daresalam, and Istanbul.


What pattern? Patterns cannot start with the introduction of NATO troops! Indian presence predates such "pattern"s. Even if NATO packs up, the Indian Embassy would be attacked. There are two dynamics, the enemy is using the same means to achieve the same end. And, you are confusing the two.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby CRamS » 12 Jul 2008 08:22

Johann:

Do you have precise stats on the #of NATO boys being killed? Mode of operation? etc. How many NATO diplomats have been killed? NATO commanders? And when NATO boys are killed, does western media portray it in bengin terms as 'rivals clashing for influence' as they do Indians are slaughtered or is it described as unadulterated evil? Can you point a single Gatesque proclamation when a NATO boy is killed?

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby vipins » 12 Jul 2008 16:06

'We not only suspect Pakistan, we have proof'

Narayanan said, "I think that the people of this country need to know the facts. The Afgan Government has categorically stated it and we are aware of it. I think we need to pay back those who are responsible in the same coin."


However, also confirmed, "We haven't arrived at a decision that we should go for fight-fight. Let talks continue for the moment." :roll:

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby sum » 12 Jul 2008 17:44

I think we need to pay back those who are responsible in the same coin

Cant recall any govt functionary using such words ever before snce this govt came to power...can only hope that the wheels are being set in motion.

This attack sure seems to have hit a few few nerves in Dilli....maybe the Paks overdid their needling/1000 cut bit this time.. :twisted:

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby JE Menon » 12 Jul 2008 17:56

MK Narayanan's exact words were, according to the TimesNow story:

"We not only suspect, we have fair amount of intelligence inputs on that".

That's a rather different thing from "We not only suspect, we have proof" - as the ddmonkeys put in the headline, and in quotes at that... anything for eyeballs I guess...

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 12 Jul 2008 18:08

I think we need to pay back those who are responsible in the same coin


"Do Unto Others what They are Doing to You" is the age-old principle that never fails to be effective. Since nobody likes the taste of their own medicine, they learn correct behaviour quickly. So bomb blast for bomb blast, insurgency for insurgency, fake currency for fake currency and grabbing their territory in return for their grabbing your territory. Rogue countries as well as people are cured of their mischief quite fast with this strategy.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby SSridhar » 12 Jul 2008 18:33

Johann wrote:There's no reason to believe that the praetorian elements of the Pakistani state are any less complicit in attacks on US forces on the Afghan side of the Durand Line, or on the Australian embassy, or Dick Cheny or whomever.


The praetorian elements on the Pakistani side of the Durand Line have an objective different from the Taliban, though they may collaborate in their projects. For Pakistan, the goal is India and India only. The sole reason for developing, nurturing and continuing to support the Taliban is India. The complicity or duplicity of the Pakistani elements have to be seen in this perspective.

One attempt that we have seen repeatedly from the US and Western nations is to dilute the Indian blood dripping from Pakistani hands to make it look like zam-zam water.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Johann » 12 Jul 2008 18:42

NRao wrote:
In terms of the profile of the target, the Indian embassy was also part of a pattern.

What pattern?


The pattern of Taliban attacks in Afghanistan in general and Kabul in particular in the last 18 months.

While NATO is there to fight the Taliban, India is NOT!!! Why is it so difficult to understand that? While the death of foreigners, be they soldiers or health workers has the same meaning from a loss perspective, the intent of these attacks is very, very, very different. India does NOT have a pair of boots to battle anyone there.


NRao, that is a surprisingly naive thing to say. After all this time on the forum you surely understand that succesful counter-insurgencies, like any total war effort depend heavily on the integration of non-military elements - building infrastructure in the countryside, economic development, putting out a message, extending govt. services, etc.

Any state that aids the Afghan government in these things is going to be treated as an enemy of the Taliban. In particular the GoI may not have combat forces engaged in Afghanistan, but it long ago established itself as an enemy of the Taliban by aiding the Northern Alliance even before it came to power on the backs of American bombs.

CRamS wrote:Do you have precise stats on the #of NATO boys being killed?
CRS, that's public domain information. Its available to anyone who cares to google it.

131 were killed since the beginning of this year, 363 in the last 18 months. In fact the number of Coalition combat casualties in Afghanistan have exceeded those in Iraq for the last two months.

Can you point a single Gatesque proclamation when a NATO boy is killed?

Why not look at Gates comments on the 28th of June? Or Gates and CENTCOM commanders public testimonies to Congress. There is never any acknowledgement of the role that the PA and ISI play in actively supporting the Taliban insurgency that are responsible for NATO and other deaths in Afghanistan. Any public suggestion of collusion betwen the two is always dismissed.

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Re: Suicide Attack on Indian Embassy in Kabul

Postby Johann » 12 Jul 2008 19:03

SSridhar wrote:
Johann wrote:There's no reason to believe that the praetorian elements of the Pakistani state are any less complicit in attacks on US forces on the Afghan side of the Durand Line, or on the Australian embassy, or Dick Cheny or whomever.


The praetorian elements on the Pakistani side of the Durand Line have an objective different from the Taliban, though they may collaborate in their projects. For Pakistan, the goal is India and India only. The sole reason for developing, nurturing and continuing to support the Taliban is India. The complicity or duplicity of the Pakistani elements have to be seen in this perspective.


S Sridhar,

You cant be serious in suggesting that Pakistan's support of jihadi forces in Afghanistan is all about India. India is a secondary factor.

Afghanistan has threatened Pakistan's "raisin dieter" at least as much as India has in ideological and popular terms. I'm sure you remember that Afghanistan was the only country to vote against Pakistan's entry in to the UN in 1947.

Afghanistan's territorial claim on Pakistan's territorial holdings dwarfs India's. Pakistan has fought a nearly continuous series of shadow wars with all of Afghan governments, royalist, republican, communist and now democratic.

ZA Bhutto's time in office saw very little Pakistani support for insurgent activities in India, but the story was different between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Nor was it always a question of the Pakistanis pushing and the Afghans reacting. Daud in particular, first as Premier in the 1950s, and particularly as president after the 1973 coup was very aggressive while the Pakistanis were the ones forced to look for a negotiated return to normality.

Jihadi Islamism has been Pakistan's main tool in attempting to defuse the highly threatening combination of Afghan territorial claims and Pashtun sub-nationalism.

Anybody who thinks the Taliban is just about strategic depth has not plumbed how fundamental the Afghan-Pathan question is to Pakistan's basic shape. The Pakistani security establishment knows it.


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