Blasts in Ahmedabad

Pulikeshi
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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Pulikeshi » 29 Jul 2008 12:37

My gut feel is that this is a new phase of an half-finished ancient jihad.


So if it is the case (I think it is) that we are still fighting this unfinished jihad -
then indeed there is a Tepid War (copyright) between India and TSP and further...

How can this war be fought at home, would it not require that we venture out of India to take the battle to them? :twisted:

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Vivek Sreenivasan » 29 Jul 2008 12:40

These jehadis are jackasses, i mean whod tie a bomb to a tree, :roll: It shows that their IQ cant be much above 80. This is good because it shows were dealing with imbeciles who are bound to make mistakes. I wouldn't be too suprised if they blow themselves up and and save us the trouble. :rotfl:

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby RayC » 29 Jul 2008 12:48

Karan Dixit wrote:I guess poor Hindus living on the streets of Kolkata have to do some terror work before their poverty will be acknowledged.


Interesting.

Like what?

It may interest you that the fare of even the poor Hindus are not merely dal chawl. They chuck in a veg and sometimes fish. Bloody choosy these Bengalis!

We live in a Communist state and though I dislike them, Calcutta or Kolkata is the cheapest metro to live in! My Punjabi friends come and criticise Calcutta for a few months but when they see their savings, they love it.

I survive quite well with the lousy pension I get and I never knew about savings while in service!

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby RayC » 29 Jul 2008 12:49

To fight these terrorist, the nation has to be one with one policy, with a law that has teeth and then all will be somewhat well!

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Rishi » 29 Jul 2008 13:31

Rishi wrote:http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20080728&fname=email&sid=1

The Full (5 page!) email from Indian Mujaheddin. This is meant to provoke. Definitely the handiwork of the Pakis

Also,

According to intelligence sources have claimed (sic) that the 408 Detachment of ISI based in Karachi - which oversees terror operations in Maharashtra, Goa and Gujarat - is behind the floating of Indian Mujhaideen.


Ah, Outlook pulled the article. It was probably the most virulent hindu bashing article I've ever read. It looked like the kind of stuff the cheekipakis write in their fora... Hindu bad, Hindu die, We will rule.. (except it went on and on...)

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Singha » 29 Jul 2008 13:46

New Delhi: Three days after a series of blasts in Ahmedabad killed 45 people, police found five unexploded bombs in Surat on Tuesday. The bombs were found near the Ladeshwar Police post, Santosh Nagar vegetable market and the Varachha area in the diamond city.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Rishi » 29 Jul 2008 13:58

Image

The same shaped charge.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby niran » 29 Jul 2008 14:12

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:These jehadis are jackasses, i mean whod tie a bomb to a tree, :roll: It shows that their IQ cant be much above 80. This is good because it shows were dealing with imbeciles who are bound to make mistakes. I wouldn't be too suprised if they blow themselves up and and save us the trouble. :rotfl:

underestimating your foe is a serious flaw. May be these jeehadese found the place too hot to plant
therefore they tied on a tree. May be to show us how easy it is to plant they did it. May be they had surpluses so they tied, may be just for the heck of it. All of them very worrying, nothing to laugh about.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Raju » 29 Jul 2008 14:28

their boss asked them to plant a bomb.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Singha » 29 Jul 2008 14:34

under certain circumstances a tree bomb could work like a airburst explosive, i.e greater
spread of the blast damage. if you wanted to take out a open crowded area, a tree
burst will do more damage.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Shivani » 29 Jul 2008 15:06

TV news channels are showing visuals and reporting that over eleven bombs have been found and defused in Surat. One bomb was literally 'planted' high up in a tree.

If these devices had went off in crowded places the death toll would have been enormous. The purpose of planting the devices and not detonating them could be to force a political blackmail.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby p_saggu » 29 Jul 2008 15:42

Bombs haul so far: 11 live bombs found in Surat, 6 defused; 3 found in Marwar, Rajasthan

The shaped charge from the surat Wagon R. This reminds me that the last time the "Shaped charge" made its appearence, it was in Richard Reid's shoe. Then the western intelligence agencies went into a tizzy because shaped charges is usually the business of scientists involved in the nuclear weapons business.
This one though looks lower tech, but the inspiration is certainly there.
From today's TOI
Image

Also time for a new thread "Terror Attacks against India - July 2008" ?

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby asbchakri » 29 Jul 2008 16:02

Rishi wrote:Image

The same shaped charge.


What the hell are these guys are still there looking at it, waiting for it to blow in their faces :eek: or is it is already diffused

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby sum » 29 Jul 2008 16:24

Plain and simple foolhardiness.... :roll:
also scary is the visuals of police casually strolling upto the bomb, poking around with it and casually walking back!!!!!

Guess will need a bomb to blow up when they are near by to get the thick skulled(have seen this in atleast 5-6 different bomb visuals in Blore and surat) police men to stop approaching the bombs w/o suits.... :-? :x

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Singha » 29 Jul 2008 16:25

the curved shape and size of the device looks suitable for wearing
as a suicide belt.

its also true that iraqi IED types have used 'explosively formed
projectile' - its a armour piercing not anti personnel weapon in the
main.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosivel ... penetrator

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby saip » 29 Jul 2008 16:40

Why did not these bombs in Surat explode? I can understand if one or two did not explode, but all of them? Are these meant to found? Or else, the person/persons who were planning these explosions could not reach Surat in time to set these off.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby SSridhar » 29 Jul 2008 16:52

India is resolute and terrorists have no religion: Pranab

So long as we want to hide the religious identity of these terrorists, we will not be able to take any effective action.
"But India's resolve and capacities are strong enough and can withstand all these terrorists can do."

Dismissing terrorists' claim to act on behalf of religion, Mukherjee said "in truth they have no religion, because the essence of religions is peace and universal brotherhood, and not violence and the violation of human rights." {Does that apply to all religions ?}

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Singha » 29 Jul 2008 16:54

maybe the rains there ?

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby pradeepe » 29 Jul 2008 17:19

Or the Surat consignment had a defective component.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby asbchakri » 29 Jul 2008 17:21

SSridhar wrote:India is resolute and terrorists have no religion: Pranab

So long as we want to hide the religious identity of these terrorists, we will not be able to take any effective action.
"But India's resolve and capacities are strong enough and can withstand all these terrorists can do."

Dismissing terrorists' claim to act on behalf of religion, Mukherjee said "in truth they have no religion, because the essence of religions is peace and universal brotherhood, and not violence and the violation of human rights." {Does that apply to all religions ?}



Nope it only applies to the beacepul religion AKA Izhlam :mrgreen:

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby RajeshA » 29 Jul 2008 17:30

Irani Shia are immune to Sunni sermons. These are Muslims who do not listen to other Muslims. These are Muslims who do not listen to extremists of other Muslim sects.

That is the only way to shield the Indian Muslim from the Non-Indian Muslim ideologies and ideologues. The Indian Muslim requires:

a) An own sect (Indislam)
b) A clear and vocal rooting of the Indian Muslim in India
c) A connection to their pre-conversion society and culture
d) A say in the politics of India
e) An average income equal to that of any average Indian
f) A reason to feel superior to any Arab or Persian, in mind, in body and in culture
g) Indian role models (historical and current)
h) A stake in the Indian Growth Story

Should this not come about in the near future, India awaits a storm from within!

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby asbchakri » 29 Jul 2008 17:51

RajeshA wrote:Irani Shia are immune to Sunni sermons. These are Muslims who do not listen to other Muslims. These are Muslims who do not listen to extremists of other Muslim sects.

That is the only way to shield the Indian Muslim from the Non-Indian Muslim ideologies and ideologues. The Indian Muslim requires:

a) An own sect (Indislam)
b) A clear and vocal rooting of the Indian Muslim in India
c) A connection to their pre-conversion society and culture
d) A say in the politics of India
e) An average income equal to that of any average Indian
f) A reason to feel superior to any Arab or Persian, in mind, in body and in culture
g) Indian role models (historical and current)
h) A stake in the Indian Growth Story

Should this not come about in the near future, India awaits a storm from within!


a) Not sure
b) thay already have it
c) U mean before Mughals rule (not clear what u mean by that)
d) are u saying there arent any Muslim politicians, they are a important vote bank to politicians
e) I know many muslims who earn more than a average Indian
f) :?:
g) who is Abdul Kalam :roll:
h) :roll: :?:

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby RamaY » 29 Jul 2008 18:22

Rahul M wrote:as a community, the biggest problem with IM society is the absence of middle class. unlike the comparatively progressive communities, muslim middle class in India is miniscule.


This is not a fact.

If you take a true census in India today, I can guarantee that at least 30% of the IM population falls in to middleclass category, Middleclass being in 12,000-25,000 per capita annual income. If a family has 4 people this would be 48,000-100,000Rs income per year. And minimum 10% of muslim population is very rich in any standards.

IM popluation does reflect Indian macro economic situation. Just look around in your locality. You will know…

thanks

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Rupesh » 29 Jul 2008 18:23

Expressindia is reporting that three low intensity crude bombs have been diffused in Rajasthan's pali dist...

http://www.expressindia.com/

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby shiv » 29 Jul 2008 18:31

"Middle class" in India would be an income of 7000-10000 a month. scooter/two wheeler owning, with TV and maybe a fridge. 12,000 a month is heading towards upper middle class/wealthy. 25000 is wealthy by Indian standards - nearly falling into the middle tax bracket.

Many drivers, electricians, painters, skilled workers, petty business people fall into "middle class"

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Rupesh » 29 Jul 2008 18:36

RamaY wrote:
Rahul M wrote:as a community, the biggest problem with IM society is the absence of middle class. unlike the comparatively progressive communities, muslim middle class in India is miniscule.


This is not a fact.

If you take a true census in India today, I can guarantee that at least 30% of the IM population falls in to middleclass category, Middleclass being in 12,000-25,000 per capita annual income. If a family has 4 people this would be 48,000-100,000Rs income per year. And minimum 10% of muslim population is very rich in any standards.

IM popluation does reflect Indian macro economic situation. Just look around in your locality. You will know…

thanks


And most of the IM terriorists are highly qualified ( you may find a few with doctorates ). Its the uneducated and poor IM's that are generally peaceful. The poor are more bothered about food rather than religion, its the upper middle class IM's who are radicals.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby p_saggu » 29 Jul 2008 18:49

Latest at 7:00PM IST
18 bombs found in surat, all defused.
3 bombs found in Marwar, Rajasthan

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Malayappan » 29 Jul 2008 19:01

I am not a Gujarati but lived in Ahmedabad in 89-91 - during the Ram Janmabhoomi times. As an outsider I may have ended up noticing many things that good Gujjus don't!

First the city is religiously polarised. Everyone here may know Juhapura but it may be interesting that the divide is right through. Talking to colleagues I found that the Madhavsinh Solanki's use of the underworld to break the Aarakshan Virodhi Aandholan sparked off the ethnic 'adjustments.' BTW one of the names mentioned now - Latif is well known in this regard

Contrary to secular folklore Muslims are not particularly downtrodden. Give or take a few percentage points the communities are economically not very dissimilar. Quite a few businesses are run - not only by Bohris but also Sunnis (for some reason according to Sunnis if you follow Mohammed, you are either a Muslim(=Sunni) or a Bohri!). They are also represented in Govt service. I came across many. The only catch if you are a Muslim in the new city, you need to live in Juhapura - not in Satellite or Navrangpura!

During peace times believe me there are no negative vibes. People interact closely, share jokes, drink tea, share paan - the works. At the first sign of communal violence, however, the divide becomes oh so evident! ( I am told that most middle class Hindu families who shifted out of the walled city neighborhoods have stories to tell!)

The Hindi movie / Teesta Setalvad type of bhaichara will never be possible in Ahmedabad. OTOH a practical relationship, contractual drawing of lines, based on a clear understanding of rights and duties by the Muslims (I say the last one with full sensitivity and earnestness) is realistic and will be beneficial for all - 'Business will go on!' But then the moment this is articulated, the secular brigade will be up in arms.

That is why when the secular brigade screams, the Amdavadi simply is bewildered!

One remark - I would say peacetime Ahmedabad may be an interesting model for Hindu - Muslim relationships to consider.

Proper Gujju brothers can tear in....

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby saip » 29 Jul 2008 19:13

p_saggu wrote:Latest at 7:00PM IST
18 bombs found in surat, all defused.
3 bombs found in Marwar, Rajasthan


Too many unexploded bombs. Is it possible that the key individual/s got detained/met with an accident somewhere?

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby vsudhir » 29 Jul 2008 19:17

saip wrote:
p_saggu wrote:Latest at 7:00PM IST
18 bombs found in surat, all defused.
3 bombs found in Marwar, Rajasthan


Too many unexploded bombs. Is it possible that the key individual/s got detained/met with an accident somewhere?


Equally likely, the plot got busted. Our intell folks have been successful in penetrating these turds. But (they and GoI) have let the world and the indian public assume the worst about them - incompetent, politicised, clueless etc - in order not to prematurely expose the covert operation.

/Just a possibility I'm thinking aloud about.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Rupesh » 29 Jul 2008 19:25

shiv wrote:But for India there is definitely support and funding from Pakistan.


Bulk of the funding comes from Saudi, Kuwait and UAE with Islamic organizations in Saudi contributing max. Years ago i remember having read an article about bringing gold into India to fund terriorists and Karipur Airport near Kozhikode accounting for over 300 tonnes of gold being landed annually. There is hardly any tracking of this gold (mallus don't eat gold, so what happens to this gold), and i suspect this may be one of the channels for terror funding. there is a large spopulation of IM's working in Saudi and it is quite possible that they are involved in bringing funds for terriorists. Malapuram and Kozhikode districts have a huge concentration of radical islamists and recent activities point towards most of the bombings in south India having a kerala link.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Vriksh » 29 Jul 2008 19:36

xposted in blasts poll thread and Nukkad (A mistake no doubt)...

As a nation we should consider this an opportunity to forge community in order to minimize the impact of future terrorist attacks and maximize chances of law enforcement. We need to have a grassroots campaign that will help us deal with events like this I scoured the net (albeit briefly) to find out if there are effective ways of the community identifying terrorist threats, helping with early detection etc etc but could not find much appropriate.

Anyway there is plenty the public can do before, during and after a terror incident.

Before a terrorist event we need to inculcate the following
1. Create a community neighborhood watch
2. Ask all individuals in a community to keep an eye out for suspicious activity (I don't how to identify "suspicious")
3. Use cellphone cameras to record suspicious events, cars, bicycles, individuals and groups
4. coordinate with local Police Thana (in fact if the community invites the police regularly to coordinate security it will automatically take ownership of the security apparatus
5. create a cellphone text and pix 911 kind of number that can be used to relay information up the security
ladder
6. Get local businesses who have their own security to look out for suspicious activity, involve them and the police to liase effectively
7. Identify high crowd density points so that any suspicious activity there can be effectively managed (for example photographing car and driver by authorized personnel) before parking in such areas.

After a terror event
1. Educate public and even the police on how to behave to minimize casualties
2. Improve skills to identify those that are critically injured and those whose injuries are minor
3. Identify access points so as to erect barricades to facilitate ingress and egress of emergency vehicles
4. Identify locals that provide first point of contact for emergency personnel.

There is a big problem in India on the lack of trust in India between individuals, law enforcement, politicians etc etc. This needs to be changed pronto. And as people build up trust in each other cohesion will come about locally, regionally and nationally.

I don't know if there needs to be a BR emergency/terrorist response training page where some of the above can be thrashed out and disseminated to the public.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby sunilUpa » 29 Jul 2008 20:34

Malayappan wrote:I am not a Gujarati but lived in Ahmedabad in 89-91 - during the Ram Janmabhoomi times. As an outsider I may have ended up noticing many things that good Gujjus don't!

....


Good points, I spent large part of my professional life in Ahmedabad 94-2003. I love the city and people and it is the place I would like to retire.

Bohra community is very well educated and very prosperous. However other Muslims too are well off as compared to other parts of India. Due to the enterprenaur nature, Gujaratis (Muslims, Hindus, Sindhis etc) have managed to create opportunities where other don't see any. Muslims are completely integrated in to society in the economic scense.

However it's a different story in social fabric of society. Segregation is complete.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby svinayak » 29 Jul 2008 20:36

WHEN, WHERE
6.45 pm: Sardar Patel Diamond Market, Govindvadi, Thakkarnagar

7 pm: Sarangpur, near Khodiyar Temple, Jaymala Bus Stand

7:05 pm: Rajendranagar in Odhav

7:10 pm: Maninagar Bus Stand, Sarangpur

7:45 pm: Raipur, Sangum Theatre

7.54 pm: Civil Hospital Trauma Ward

8 pm: LG Hospital

8.08 pm: Mariyum Ni Chali End

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby vsudhir » 29 Jul 2008 20:36

Why there was no India riot repeat (BBC)

Religious positions have hardened. When a prominent Mumbai-based civil right activist who has been fighting for justice for the victims of the 2002 riots and an actor arrived at the civil hospital in Ahmedabad over the weekend to meet the wounded, family and friends of the victims hounded them out of the place.

They called the civil rights activist “a mouth piece of the terrorists”.


Thats Teesta Setalvad and Rahul Bose. Teesta is brazenly publicity-seeking and I'm less than unhappy at what happened. Her phoren funding depends on how much muck she can rake and aam aadmi in Amdavad was alert to her modus operandi, seems like.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby SSridhar » 29 Jul 2008 20:45

vsudhir wrote:
When a prominent Mumbai-based civil right activist who has been fighting for justice for the victims of the 2002 riots and an actor arrived at the civil hospital in Ahmedabad over the weekend to meet the wounded, family and friends of the victims hounded them out of the place.

They called the civil rights activist “a mouth piece of the terrorists”.


Should be interesting to hear/read the reaction of Ms. Teesta. Should be forthcoming soon. She is our Shrileen.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby Kakkaji » 29 Jul 2008 20:55

[quote="SSridhar]Should be interesting to hear/read the reaction of Ms. Teesta. Should be forthcoming soon. She is our Shrileen.[/quote]

No. Shrileen is shrill but is loyal to her country - the Terrorist State of Pakistan.

Teesta is Shrill and disloyal to the country whose citizenship she holds - India.

Shrileen is not a danger to her country, Teesta is.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby archan » 29 Jul 2008 20:59

is she really? does she hold that much influence? I thought she was all about fighting for women. In the Bese Bakery case too, it appears that her prime motivation was that a woman was victimized. She claimed that she also spoke against the Taliban (who of course were oppressing the women). As long as she speaks against violence propagated by both sides, I would have few issues with her.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby ashish raval » 29 Jul 2008 21:03

Malayappan wrote:I am not a Gujarati but lived in Ahmedabad in 89-91 - during the Ram Janmabhoomi times. As an outsider I may have ended up noticing many things that good Gujjus don't!


I think you mentioned some good points. Indeed peacetime Ahmedabad is a model place to live. But we must also acknowledge the fact that the polarization you see is not last 5 years of phenomenon. It had also something to do with the fact that Muslims always prefer Ghetto's than community living which is a worldwide phenomenon. The deep mistrust is also resultant of the fact that Muslims dont acknowledge that they have problems with their community. They think they are Allah's choosen people and all other are Kufr and hence detested. A muslim friend can come to a hindu's home and know each and every person living hindu society and who is visit his/her home, whereas a hindu is never allowed to enter a muslim home let alone knowing who is visiting whom from which place and which city and what he/she is doing. This leads to serious gaps in the intelligence or knowing the activities that muslims pursue behind the veil. Hence as a natural tendency is that the other person starts suspecting muslims which is pretty obvious thing in a transparent society ultimately multiplying the mistrust. The other reasons are also embeded into the fact that whenever Indo-Pak cricket match happens muslims find themselves teared apart and this can be seen from the facts from the celebrations happening in muslim dominated area when pak wins or eerie quietness you see when India wins. Whatever the reason may be they find it very difficult to be loyal to land where Islam is not the only religion. To conclude i must emphasize that as a whole muslim community have failed to handover or cooperate to nab the criminals or minority miscreants who want to build tensions in the society despite being in a full knowledge of it. They as a community have been a mute spectator when it comes to cooperating in the national security and this is a definitive fact.

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Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad

Postby vishwakarmaa » 29 Jul 2008 21:19

RamaY wrote:So it is very clear that the logic of "poverty leads to terrorism" is illogical. If this is the case poverty should lead to terrorism in all religions and regions...


Nice Observation. Totally agree.

Let me tell you something about Islam. It might help in understanding why I think Indian Muslims should not be blamed for blasts.

There are several flavours of Islam - Wahabbism is one, it belongs to Sauri Arabia. It is a degraded and fanatic version. Muslims in pakistan relates themselves to this version. They associate themselves to this version.

Another version is one which rules sub-continent. This version lacks fanatic flavour of wahabbism. Now today, a lot of people in India think partition was good because it seperated this wahhabic section of Muslims in sub-continent. Most of these wahabbists joined Pakistan. One interesting this is, those who were not in favour of such fanaticism were also forced into it after Pakistan endorsed Saudi Arabia's version of Islam and Saudi Arabia became a Patron(Inspiration) for version of Islam practiced in pakistan.

Today, terrorism is rising in India because pakistan is exporting its "fanatic" version of Islam into Indian muslims. And sad thing is, political parties realise thing but are doing nothing for education of Indian Muslims so they don't fall for this propoganda being done by ISI and its support lobbies in India.

We are busy blaming Indian Muslims for blasts. Our focus should be devising strategies and psy-op campaigns taking Indian Muslim leaders along, to fight this campaign of ISI into Indian Islamic community.

Remember, if we keep blaming Indian Muslims and do nothing about real problems then it will only help ISI and their wahabbism-exporters(Saudi Arabia).

They are spreading this philosophy very fast. Its clear from blasts occuring around all states of India now.

Blaming Indian Muslims after blasts shows our ignorance of real problem. We must take action now to counter this disease and spread a correct version of Islam among Indian muslims before they fall for ISI/Saudi arabia propaganda version of Islam.

Congress party understands this problem in some sense but they are not "willing" and "creative" enough to convince Indian muslim leaders that we need to counter this foreign propaganda which aims to use our muslim community against ourselves. MMS recently proposed revision of muslim education board to induce better science education but that didn't go much further because he couldn't convince stubborn community leaders.

On other side, BJP understands this problem too. In fact, they knew this much before congress and tried to take steps on better review of madarrassa books and education in India. But, due to their "media-image" Indian muslim community leaders totally rejected their proposal due to their paranoia with BJP.

Problem is not Indian Muslims. Problem is lack of "creativity" and "urgency" among Indian politicians to convince Muslim community leaders in India that we must enforce better education policies among Indian Muslims to stop them from going into wrong direction and falling for ISI/Saudi Arabia version of fanatic Islam. The "stubbornness" and "paranoia" among community leaders is only complicating the situation.

We must act now.

Stop the blame game. Lets focus on real issues. This blame game only shows that we are not matured enough to understand real problems and focus on them.


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