Blasts in Ahmedabad

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 27 Jul 2008 00:27

vishwakarmaa wrote:Banning people totally isn't such a good idea for BRF. Purpose is to "show the light" to person so he gets the logic behind line of BRF thought and make them understand how it is better for country. Banning will only make him leave BRF and not return. Thats what our one of motive is, to reach out to maximum people and assimilate them in thought process.

There should be some other alternative, like 5-day posting ban or such.

There is already a process in place. No one gets banned for one post that they may have made in a bad frame of mind. enough leeway is given to members. warnings are issued. PMs are sent. if the user persist and accumulates three such warnings - a ban is enforced. the ban is not permanent (Atleast the first time). However a user who returns and indulges in the same kind of performance risks longer bans - and ultimately a permanent ban.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Jul 2008 00:29

vishwakarmaa wrote:Banning people totally isn't such a good idea for BRF. Purpose is to "show the light" to person so he gets the logic behind line of BRF thought and make them understand how it is better for country. Banning will only make him leave BRF and not return. Thats what our one of motive is, to reach out to maximum people and assimilate them in thought process.

There should be some other alternative, like 5-day posting ban or such.

these are 1month bans. permanent bans will follow the 5th warning. (hopefully will not happen).
problem is, you can't spoon feed grown-ups. there are enough intelligent posts on BRF from which to pick up the right ideas (loosely speaking) if you want to. bringing people to their senses through the internet forcefully may be beyond our abilities.

mayurav · Post by **mayurav** » 27 Jul 2008 00:33

I hope there is a way to break out of this vicious cycle

1) Some Muslim bad apples set of bums.
2) Police hunt down and arrest these muslims.
3) Muslims think that the arrested muslims (and muslim community) are being unfairly targeted.
4) Perceived unfair targeting of muslims spawns muslim bad apples.
5) Muslim bad apples repeat 1).

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 27 Jul 2008 00:33

India should use this to mobilize the civilian population, spread awareness of emergency procedures, first aid, rescue operations etc. and get them used to the idea of thinking like they in a war zone, without spreading panic and insecurity. A LOT of education is needed, to point out to people the difference between the freedom of a democratic, pluralistic society, and the type of society to expect from the enemies around (and among) us - the idea that Freedom Does Not Come Free.

At the same time, a great deal of effort needs to be put into training, equpipping, paying and supporting the law enforcement agencies, especially to transition from an Imperial Raj police to being an arm of the citizenry, fully integrated with society. (sort-of like the kind and gentle and so vaaaaastly popular, handsome BRF Admins

).

And this is a good reason to clean up the cities, big-time. Eliminate traffic hindrances that delay emergency providers. Clean up the hospitals and their surroundings.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Jul 2008 00:33

That bribing case that rocked Parliament last week - it's history.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 27 Jul 2008 00:35

Not quite, Acharyaji. The Speaker has ordered an Enquiry. Probably Blue Ribbon Commission headed by Retired Supreme Court Judge. Expect report by the year 2050, in a photo-finish with Ayodhya Verdict.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Jul 2008 00:37

Deleted.

No discussions on the trust vote here.

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 27 Jul 2008 00:38

mayurav wrote:I hope there is a way to break out of this vicious cycle

1) Some Muslim bad apples set of bums.
2) Police hunt down and arrest these muslims.
3) Muslims think that the arrested muslims (and muslim community) are being unfairly targeted.
4) Perceived unfair targeting of muslims spawns muslim bad apples.
5) Muslim bad apples repeat 1).

Yes, there is a way out - "Stop feeling guilty for arresting a muslim"

We are secular. Arresting a muslim or non-muslim is same.

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 27 Jul 2008 00:39

From a link in the beeb.

Some of the bombs in the second wave targeted the hospitals where the injured were being taken, he adds.

"We saw a blue bag near the trauma centre, and before we could react we saw it explode in a shine of blinding light, and some 40 people were hit by flying shrapnel," doctor Vipul Patil, at the Dhanwantari Hospital, told AFP news agency.

Right next to the trauma center

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Jul 2008 00:40

Acharya ji, please don't derail the thread.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Jul 2008 00:40

Katare wrote:cross posting -

Rman,

Don't you think that would be like playing the game exactly the way Paki's want us to play? Why should we escalate and solve all of their problems? They are near self-destruction; I would not throw them a lifeline by escalating, which would allow them to divert all their troubles our way?

I think India should use this opportunity to fix its internal security problems like having a central crime-fighting agency and providing meaningful legislative independence to police forces. The issues and solutions with our internal security are well identified but politicians have chosen easy way out by enacting/retrieving useless and draconian laws like TADA/POTA. We must use this opportunity to implement the police reforms mandated by SC (which state govts are vehemently opposing) and bring out our own version of FBI.

Katare, as I was stating in a similar debate on Rediff -- don't you recognize that the terrorists want us to be damned if we do, and damned if we don't?
People like you are forever harping that we should not emotionally react in a way that could polarize society along communal lines, because this is what the terrorists want.
Let's stop being ignorant and pretending that the terrorists have a one-track plan. You're only worrying about communal polarization, and not seeing the other side of the trap -- which is that we should become so meek and soft-spoken that we would absorb bombings until we are bombed to pieces.
They want us to be damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Given that fact, I'd rather take my chances in being outspoken and angry. Benjamin Franklin said that moderation should be pursued in all things, including in moderation itself. This means that if someone's broken into your home and is assaulting your wife and kids, then you don't sit there moderately and preach the virtues of moderation to them.

So I wish you'd stop preaching an excess of passivity and recognize that no war can be won by purely doting on the efforts of bureaucrats. Society has to get involved at the grassroots level. You just want to press this or that administrative button, and leave it to some admistrative police process to work things out. Well, as you can see, that's not working. But this fact then has you again calling for more tweaks and calibrations. Sorry, but these smalltime measures aren't going to do it.

What's needed is the invocation of nationalist sentiment and its values -- which call for making sacrifices to preserve the nation's security and survival. And if that means bringing back POTA/TADA, and having to live your life squeaky clean to avoid attracting its scrutiny, then so be it.
If you don't want that, then recognize that you may be forced to live with bomb blast after bomb blast. Life doesn't always give easy choices.

mayurav · Post by **mayurav** » 27 Jul 2008 00:43

vishwakarmaa wrote:
mayurav wrote:I hope there is a way to break out of this vicious cycle

1) Some Muslim bad apples set of bums.
2) Police hunt down and arrest these muslims.
3) Muslims think that the arrested muslims (and muslim community) are being unfairly targeted.
4) Perceived unfair targeting of muslims spawns muslim bad apples.
5) Muslim bad apples repeat 1).
Yes, there is a way out - "Stop feeling guilty for arresting a muslim"

We are secular. Arresting a muslim or non-muslim is same.

So, how do you propose to put that sense into Muslims?

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 27 Jul 2008 00:48

A few more such incidents and at least on BRF, the insights from blast threads can replace those from benis, perhaps.

In any case, if you were some ISI honcho and you actually had the operational reach to pull off something like serial blasts in Indian cities at will, why not have bums going off every other day in every other city? What better way to bring Yindia crashing down to TSP level? Its not as if Yindia can do anything about it as long as TSP issues blanket denials and unkil is focussed on A'stan and doesn't want TSP attn to be distracted from Al Qaeda.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Jul 2008 00:53

mayurav wrote: So, how do propose to put that sense into Muslims?

Well, this is where Freedom of Dissociation comes in.

You see, Muslims are supported in their sentiments by Leftists and Casteists, who do this for tactical reasons.

These low-ethics political constituencies have enough demographic weight to jointly stymie nationalist forces and their ethics.

So then the solution is to stop living together with them in the same space. The boundary lines of Indian States and local neighborhoods should be re-arranged to allow different-minded groups to live apart from each other.
Those who support TADA/POTA and responsible national values can live together. Those who oppose TADA/POTA and responsible ethics, instead believing that all bombings are some Hindu/Brahmin conspiracy, can themselves live together.

That separation will allow those will ethics to enjoy the fruits of their ethics, while those without ethics will reap the fruits of what they have sown.

I'm not going to waste my time crying myself hoarse that bombings like these are NOT some
BJP/RSS/Hindu/Brahmin conspiracy. Instead, I'm going to say that those who do think such things should live apart from the rest of us.
Clearly, such irreconcilable differences should not have to be unquestioningly accommodated.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 27 Jul 2008 00:57

I received this from one of my coursemates via e mail

A little food for thought - After 9 blasts in Bangalore.

A man whose family was German aristocracy prior
to World War II owned a number of large industries
and estates. When asked how many German people
were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our
attitude toward fanaticism.

'Very few people were true Nazis' he said, 'but many
enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more
were too busy to care. I was one of those who just
thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools.

So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen.
Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had
lost control, and the end of the world had come. My
family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration
camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We are told again and again by 'experts' and talking
heads' that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the
vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace.

Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is
entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to
make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish
the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in
the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment
in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the
fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars
worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically
slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout
Africa and are gradually taking over the entire
continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who
bomb, behead, murder, or honor kill. It is the
fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is
the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and
hanging of rape victims. The hard quantifiable fact
is that the 'peaceful majority', the 'silent majority',
is cowed and extraneous.

Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who
just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian
Communists were responsible for the murder of
about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were
irrelevant.

China 's huge population was peaceful as well, but
Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering
70 million people.

The average Japanese individual prior to World
War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan
murdered and slaughtered its way across South
East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the
systematic murder of 14 million Chinese civilians;
most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.

And, who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed
into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority
of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and
blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often
miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:
Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant
by their silence.

Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if
they don't speak up, because like my friend from
Germany , they will awaken one day and find that
the fanatics own them, and the end of their world
will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese,
Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghanis, Iraqis,
Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and
many others have died because the peaceful majority
did not speak up until it was too late.

As for us who watch it all unfold; we must pay
attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics
who threaten our way of life.

Karkala Joishy · Post by **Karkala Joishy** » 27 Jul 2008 00:59

At the end of the day, Indian Muslims are our own people and we cannot throw them out. If we wanted to, we should have done it in 1947, but today is 2008. They are as much a part of India as the rest.

So let us think of how we can live together, alleviate each other's misconceptions and take on the COMMON enemy (Pakis, Chinkis, Bhooka-nangas etc). It will be painful, but that is the only way forward without tearing India apart.

mayurav · Post by **mayurav** » 27 Jul 2008 01:01

Sanjay M wrote:
mayurav wrote: So, how do propose to put that sense into Muslims?
Well, this is where Freedom of Dissociation comes in.

You see, Muslims are supported in their sentiments by Leftists and Casteists, who do this for tactical reasons.

These low-ethics political constituencies have enough demographic weight to jointly stymie nationalist forces and their ethics.

So then the solution is to stop living together with them in the same space. The boundary lines of Indian States and local neighborhoods should be re-arranged to allow different-minded groups to live apart from each other.
Those who support TADA/POTA and responsible national values can live together. Those who oppose TADA/POTA and responsible ethics, instead believing that all bombings are some Hindu/Brahmin conspiracy, can themselves live together.

That separation will allow those will ethics to enjoy the fruits of their ethics, while those without ethics will reap the fruits of what they have sown.

I'm not going to waste my time crying myself hoarse that bombings like these are NOT some
BJP/RSS/Hindu/Brahmin conspiracy. Instead, I'm going to say that those who do think such things should live apart from the rest of us.
Clearly, such irreconcilable differences should not have to be unquestioningly accommodated.

Are you suggesting a separate Hindu homeland for the Indian subcontinent's Hindus?

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 27 Jul 2008 01:03

Sanjay M wrote:
Katare wrote:cross posting -

Rman,

Don't you think that would be like playing the game exactly the way Paki's want us to play? Why should we escalate and solve all of their problems? They are near self-destruction; I would not throw them a lifeline by escalating, which would allow them to divert all their troubles our way?

I think India should use this opportunity to fix its internal security problems like having a central crime-fighting agency and providing meaningful legislative independence to police forces. The issues and solutions with our internal security are well identified but politicians have chosen easy way out by enacting/retrieving useless and draconian laws like TADA/POTA. We must use this opportunity to implement the police reforms mandated by SC (which state govts are vehemently opposing) and bring out our own version of FBI.
Katare, as I was stating in a similar debate on Rediff -- don't you recognize that the terrorists want us to be damned if we do, and damned if we don't?
People like you are forever harping that we should not emotionally react in a way that could polarize society along communal lines, because this is what the terrorists want.
Let's stop being ignorant and pretending that the terrorists have a one-track plan. You're only worrying about communal polarization, and not seeing the other side of the trap -- which is that we should become so meek and soft-spoken that we would absorb bombings until we are bombed to pieces.
They want us to be damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Perhaps more dangerous to assume that there is no communal divide. Managing that divide is one thing, but pretending that the problem does not exist will ensure that we will never find a workable solution.

More to the topic... we Indians are too busy with life to be excited with average Joes getting bumped off.

The tolerable pain threshold has already been tested during the Parliament attack. Our response at that time is the maximum that Pakis can expect. The bluff was called, we could not undertake a swift and contained conventional strike, arm twisted by Unkil, hounded by a short sighted and indifferent corporate lobby lead to a shameful demobilization.

Why are asking expecting for follow up measure for few IEDs going off here and there?

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 27 Jul 2008 01:03

The only thing that makes sense is these are merely more training-cum-practice runs for the real thing in the near future--very high intensity serial bombings all over India where thousands of bombs kill tens of thousands in a single day within an hour. The perpetrators will probably only get one chance at something that big before there is a massive clampdown where nobody can move even to take a p!ss. It simply does not help any of our enemies, internal or external, to continue this drip, drip drip stuff forever.

Without a doubt, the perpetrators are paki/BD/simi with an emphasis on BD and a rising India is their target, with the nuke deal a trigger event. They simply cannot stomach India as a de-facto nuclear weapons power on top of being a rising economic one, and they are absolutely determined to set India ablaze from end to end, like the turd in the BD thread was saying. What will be our response from civilians, police, armed forces, politicians to a massive attack that claims tens of thousands? IMO, we need to focus on and prepare for that.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 27 Jul 2008 01:04

Quite true, RayC, and that, unfortunately, is why one cannot sit idle and say "Bacche khelte hai, koi baat nahin!" when ppl post their "opinions" rationalizing crimes against others based on their religion etc.

One always says to oneself: "That could be me at the receiving end of that from some other band of yahoos - at least I should know that I did not sit idle and watch MY goons do that to some other innocent!"

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 27 Jul 2008 01:07

Sanjay M wrote:
Katare wrote:cross posting -

Rman,

Don't you think that would be like playing the game exactly the way Paki's want us to play? Why should we escalate and solve all of their problems? They are near self-destruction; I would not throw them a lifeline by escalating, which would allow them to divert all their troubles our way?

I think India should use this opportunity to fix its internal security problems like having a central crime-fighting agency and providing meaningful legislative independence to police forces. The issues and solutions with our internal security are well identified but politicians have chosen easy way out by enacting/retrieving useless and draconian laws like TADA/POTA. We must use this opportunity to implement the police reforms mandated by SC (which state govts are vehemently opposing) and bring out our own version of FBI.
Katare, as I was stating in a similar debate on Rediff -- don't you recognize that the terrorists want us to be damned if we do, and damned if we don't?
People like you are forever harping that we should not emotionally react in a way that could polarize society along communal lines, because this is what the terrorists want.
Let's stop being ignorant and pretending that the terrorists have a one-track plan. You're only worrying about communal polarization, and not seeing the other side of the trap -- which is that we should become so meek and soft-spoken that we would absorb bombings until we are bombed to pieces.
They want us to be damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Perhaps more dangerous to assume that there is no communal divide. Managing that divide is one thing, but pretending that the problem does not exist will ensure that we will never find a workable solution.

More to the topic... we Indians are too busy with life to be excited with average Joes getting bumped off.

The tolerable pain threshold has already been tested during the Parliament attack. Our response at that time is the maximum that Pakis can expect. The bluff was called, we could not undertake a swift and contained conventional strike, arm twisted by Unkil, hounded by a short sighted and indifferent corporate lobby lead to a shameful demobilization.

Why are we asking or expecting for follow up measure for few IEDs going off here and there?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Jul 2008 01:15

SRoy wrote:Perhaps more dangerous to assume that there is no communal divide. Managing that divide is one thing, but pretending that the problem does not exist will ensure that we will never find a workable solution.

Nowhere did I say that there wasn't a divide. I just said that the divide is not the absolute only thing to think about, which is what I see happening.

Again, Muslims have to do more to manage that divide. That burden can't be put on the non-Muslims alone. I'm an atheist, and have never prayed in my life, but certainly I'm inclined to ask why hundreds of thousands of Muslim activists turned out to shriek at George Bush for bombing faraway Iraq, but when India the country they live in gets bombed, then the silence is so strong that you can hear the crickets chirping. Don't give me this argument about "they're just afraid" -- that's too bad, they have to step up to the plate. They didn't seem too afraid of what anyone else would think when they showed up to shriek at Bush.

More to the topic... we Indians are too busy with life to be excited with average Joes getting bumped off.

The tolerable pain threshold has already been tested during the Parliament attack. Our response at that time is the maximum that Pakis can expect. The bluff was called, we could not undertake a swift and contained conventional strike, arm twisted by Unkil, hounded by a short sighted and indifferent corporate lobby lead to a shameful demobilization.

Why are asking expecting for follow up measure for few IEDs going off here and there?

But didn't people like you say that yesterday following the Bangalore blasts? ("What's the big deal over an occasional bombing?")
Now barely hours later, we get another bombing.
Who's to say that hours after this, we won't get another bombing? And then another one? And another?

Will you then keep calling it a "few IEDS going off here and there"?
Where will you draw the line?

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 27 Jul 2008 01:24

Sanjay M wrote:
More to the topic... we Indians are too busy with life to be excited with average Joes getting bumped off.

The tolerable pain threshold has already been tested during the Parliament attack. Our response at that time is the maximum that Pakis can expect. The bluff was called, we could not undertake a swift and contained conventional strike, arm twisted by Unkil, hounded by a short sighted and indifferent corporate lobby lead to a shameful demobilization.

Why are asking expecting for follow up measure for few IEDs going off here and there?
But didn't people like you say that yesterday following the Bangalore blasts? ("What's the big deal over an occasional bombing?")
Now barely hours later, we get another bombing.
Who's to say that hours after this, we won't get another bombing? And then another one? And another?

Will you then keep calling it a "few IEDS going off here and there"?
Where will you draw the line?

Well I didn't post in the Banagalore blast thread.

Anyway I understand what are trying to say.

Yep, "What's the big deal over an occasional bombing?". (doesn't matter who said this first). Why do you think it matters to people that are not the victims? I've not found any evidence that people are worried. If I assume you are correct than we should find street level protests, rallies, dharnas, chakka jams and leading to voting patterns with decisive mandate.

Kindly come out of your delusion and stop spreading communal hatred in BRF.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 27 Jul 2008 01:30

vsudhir wrote:A few more such incidents and at least on BRF, the insights from blast threads can replace those from benis, perhaps.

.

What do you mean Sir?

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 27 Jul 2008 01:48

RayC wrote:I received this from one of my coursemates via e mail

Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if
they don't speak up, because like my friend from
Germany , they will awaken one day and find that
the fanatics own them, and the end of their world
will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese,
Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghanis, Iraqis,
Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and
many others have died because the peaceful majority
did not speak up until it was too late.

Some points to note -

1. No mention of Pakistan in the list. (American ally in war on terrorism(sub-continent domination)).

2. Writer forgot to mention USA, where situation is same as in a Hitler country. Minority(corporate) are war-lovers since it brings employment and new markets to export to and natural reserves of that country to take over. And peace-loving majority enjoys it in same way as any German enjoyed it, since it benefits them.

3. Above email gives a feel-good democratic reason to average pop-corn eater New-Yorker to feel guilt-free for his country to invade more countries.

This piece seems to have been made by some psy-op expert in a western university and put in email-forwarding tunnel on internet. Part of psy-op campaign for preparing public in europe and west for next war. Such campaigns are routine in western media.

If only Hitler had this expertise in PR, we might be having different image of him today.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 27 Jul 2008 01:59

vaman wrote:
vsudhir wrote:A few more such incidents and at least on BRF, the insights from blast threads can replace those from benis, perhaps.
What do you mean Sir?

To stop the blasts, we have to realize that

1. Ijjlaam is a religion of biss.
2. Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism.
3. The CM should talk to the PM, who should meet and talk to the Home minister, all of them should meet the Prez and then talk about it to Soniaji. One press release per meeting.
4.The blasts should be vehemently "condemned".
5. The ideology of the perpetrators should be "rejected" (by the PM, Soniaji, Prez, Home minister)
6. Appeal for communal harmony should be broadcast (keeping the volume low, muslims might already be irritated by the nuke deal).
7. The perpetrators should be strongly warned that they will be brought to great justice !
8. Impact on the election prospects of various parties should also be vigorously debated in the media, but only after a thorough analysis of the impact of the blasts on the support of those teams in IPL which have Paki players in them.
9. It is immediately apparent that the blasts were done by LeT who collaborated JeM for the planning HuJI for the funding and Haqquani's group for the bomb expertise. Local logistics were taken care of SIMI, transportation provided by Al-Ummah. Its quite plain.

10. Move along, there is nothing to see here.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 27 Jul 2008 01:59

narayanan wrote:Quite true, RayC, and that, unfortunately, is why one cannot sit idle and say "Bacche khelte hai, koi baat nahin!" when ppl post their "opinions" rationalizing crimes against others based on their religion etc.

One always says to oneself: "That could be me at the receiving end of that from some other band of yahoos - at least I should know that I did not sit idle and watch MY goons do that to some other innocent!"

I am all for going after the goons and in a big way at that too!

The gist is that don't start a communal riot, and instead pursue investigations relentlessly with all available means. Catch the culprits and through the process of law, bring them to book and hang them if guilty.

While we may rant and rave about terrorists amidst us, we sit pretty after each blast, spew some pious homilies and forget about everything.

It is time to give some teeth to the investigating agencies in manpower, technology and funds for humint. If you give Rs 20 and hope to get info, you can forget about it! Money opens up mouths.

It is also for us, common citizens, to be vigilant and keep the police informed about any unusual activities in our locality since we know best what is going on around us. But we don't. In fact, in metros, they don't even know who resides next door. I am not suggesting that we become snoops, it is just that we must be more vigilant and not be mere spectators who release bile after each blast!

And yes, the bleeding hearts should be told to shut up! Especially that Stelvad or whatever is the name of that publicity hound!

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 27 Jul 2008 02:03

Ahmedabad attack: Terror email leads to Mumbai

Significantly, the email also takes great pains to emphasize the alleged local origin of the gang that attacked Ahmedabad on Saturday.

"We the terrorists of India - the Indian Mujahideen - the militia of Islam whose each and every Mujahid belongs to this very soil of India, have returned to execute the compulsion of Allah".

R_Kumar · Post by **R_Kumar** » 27 Jul 2008 02:05

Are you suggesting a separate Hindu homeland for the Indian subcontinent's Hindus?

We had this opportunity in 1947 but we acted stupid. I think we will have this opportunity again may be after 50 years from now when IM population will become close to 20-25 %. But I am sure generous Hindus will miss that opportunity as well.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Jul 2008 02:07

SRoy wrote:Well I didn't post in the Banagalore blast thread. Anyway I understand what are trying to say.

Yep, "What's the big deal over an occasional bombing?". (doesn't matter who said this first). Why do you think it matters to people that are not the victims? I've not found any evidence that people are worried. If I assume you are correct than we should find street level protests, rallies, dharnas, chakka jams and leading to voting patterns with decisive mandate.

Kindly come out of your delusion and stop spreading communal hatred in BRF.

I feel I am not spreading communal hatred. I am a rationalist and I am speaking up in favor of rationality.

It is irrational to keep bending over backward to appease a belligerent aggressor.

What's of course happening is that Islamist, Leftists and Casteists are aligning together to victimize the country and the developed sections of society. To me, this is an unholy alliance. They are all making common cause to justify and excuse such bombings, and to block constructive action against such attacks. And this is because they all practice unhealthy politics with unhealthy values.

I can't force an irrational person to think rationally. At some point, it's best to simply live apart from them, and lead independent lives. The unhealthy person will then reap the consequences of their unhealthy lifestyle and attitudes, while the healthy person will be free to reap the benefits of their healthier lifestyle and attitudes.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 27 Jul 2008 02:08

A Sharma wrote:Ahmedabad attack: Terror email leads to Mumbai

Significantly, the email also takes great pains to emphasize the alleged local origin of the gang that attacked Ahmedabad on Saturday.

"We the terrorists of India - the Indian Mujahideen - the militia of Islam whose each and every Mujahid belongs to this very soil of India, have returned to execute the compulsion of Allah".

The over emphasis of their being Indians is a sure giveaway that they are connected to the ISI or Bangladesh and just to prevent the blame on these two countries. Who is ruling Pakistan one does not know since it is a free for all as far as organisations/ personalities operating independently is concerned.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Jul 2008 02:08

R_Kumar wrote:
Are you suggesting a separate Hindu homeland for the Indian subcontinent's Hindus?
We had this opportunity in 1947 but we acted stupid. I think we will have this opportunity again may be after 50 years from now when IM population will become close to 20-25 %. But I am sure generous Hindus will miss that opportunity as well.

FYI, there is already a separate homeland for the Hindus and other non-Muslims -- it's called India.
If anybody else doesn't like it, well, they know where to go.

R_Kumar · Post by **R_Kumar** » 27 Jul 2008 02:09

Curently law doesn't allow this. They will be out of jail next day on bail with the help from Netas and NGOs.

The gist is that don't start a communal riot, and instead pursue investigations relentlessly with all available means. Catch the culprits and through the process of law, bring them to book and hang them if guilty.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Jul 2008 02:10

"We the terrorists of India - the Indian Mujahideen - the militia of Islam whose each and every Mujahid belongs to this very soil of India, have returned to execute the compulsion of Allah".

Which terrorist group even calls themselves "terrorists"?
Is that supposed to be some kind of Freudian slip?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Jul 2008 02:12

The gist is that don't start a communal riot, and instead pursue investigations relentlessly with all available means. Catch the culprits and through the process of law, bring them to book and hang them if guilty.

And when has that ever worked in the past?

On the other hand, if one of these angry Muslim activists decides to blow up Sonia over the N-Deal, then maybe I will suggest the Gandhi family file an FIR and wait patiently for the next few decades for an answer...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Jul 2008 02:14

Sanjay M wrote:
The gist is that don't start a communal riot, and instead pursue investigations relentlessly with all available means. Catch the culprits and through the process of law, bring them to book and hang them if guilty.
And when has that ever worked in the past?

and when has that ever been tried in the past ?

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 27 Jul 2008 02:16

Rahul M wrote:
Sanjay M wrote: And when has that ever worked in the past?
and when has that ever been tried in the past ?

Afzal

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Jul 2008 02:18

SRoy wrote:
Rahul M wrote:....
and when has that ever been tried in the past ?
Afzal

exactly ! but even there the case has not taken to its rightful conclusion.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Jul 2008 02:18

Afzal will die of old age, just like Osama Bin Laden.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 27 Jul 2008 02:19

R_kumar:
It is not true that most of the GUILTY ones arrested are "out on the street next day". It is true that often, when the police are sloppy in their investigation, the arrested person is released on bail, and even that is after severe torture etc. on the presumption of guilt. This is why the Indian police lack credibility among the Indian public.

The law that allows people to be released on bail is the same one that protects YOU from indefinite confinement and torture by lazy or malicious "authorities". If you find that unacceptable, emigration clearances may be available to any of the many nations where "law enforcement" does not have to observe such "leftist" practices as releasing people on bail. Saudi Arabia comes to mind. Or People's Republic of China.

O! thank you BRF software! For the Freedom to Dis-As-socialize!

Going to add to the list right now.