Delhi Blasts news and info

Rupesh
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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Rupesh » 23 Sep 2008 19:15

Unanswered Questions
'We feel that there are far too many loose ends in the current story of the police encounter at L-18 in Jamia Nagar. We demand that a fair, impartial and independent probe into the incident be initiated at the earliest to address the raised questions and contradictions of the case.'

Shabnam Hashmi (Anhad)
Satya Sivaraman (Independent Journalist)
Manisha Sethi (Forum for Democratic Initiatives)
Tanweer Fazal (Forum for Democratic Initiatives)
Arshad Alam (Jamia Millia Islamia)
Neshat Quaiser (Jamia Millia Islamia)
Pallavi Deka (General Secretary, JNU Students' Union)




http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20080921&fname=delhiencounter&sid=1

How long will we tolerate these B******s... JNU needs to cleaned up and Jamia closed for ever. The money taken away from us by way of taxes is used to fund these a******s

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby archan » 23 Sep 2008 19:32

Rye wrote:Now the jihadi Mulayam Singh Yadav speaks out -- apparently the fact that his party has been directly connected to the latest terrorist act in New Delhi does not seem to faze this vermin Mulayam. His SP needs to be tagged as a terrorist group and barred from participating in elections.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/if-si ... al/364949/

I hate making sarcastic comments about our polity but when they are helping keep afloat the GoI, how can they be branded as terrorists? Some democracy we have.. :roll:
When will the common village voter wake up to national issues!

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby G Subramaniam » 23 Sep 2008 21:08

VikasRaina wrote:Why is there so much sympathy for Terrorists in Muslim community. After all the SOB's were accused of blowing up people all over the country.
There is so much sympathy for Terrorists and Inspector Sharma probably shot himself dead.
And then they whine that People don't trust their community.
I hate to say this but surely , I will be part of the cheering squad when next time, bad things happen in Jama Masjid area of Old Delhi.


The IM community overall sympathises with the goals of the terrorists
While they may not take part in violence themselves, they will abet it
By helping thwart the police action against the jihadists, they themselves are
doing mild jihad

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby G Subramaniam » 23 Sep 2008 21:10

ramana wrote:More from Google cache of the post raid

Looks like the material was from Manipal, Karnataka. So how did these folks fit in the local milieu? Or was there a sympathetic quarry owner providing materiel
?



There is a large jihadi presence in bhatkal nearby

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sridhar » 23 Sep 2008 23:10

The Indian Mujahideen needs to be neutralized and eliminated. But unless underlying issues are addressed, we will see other organizations spring up. What are the underlying issues and what are the solutions? Most people here seem to think that the problem will end with the re-enactment of a strong law like POTA, and by strong-arm tactics by the police and intelligence. If you think 150 million Muslims are jihadized, then we have a serious problem on our hands. We cannot dump them all into the ocean or drive them to Pakistan. If they are not all jihadized, there may be solutions, but you are unwilling to look at them objectively.

Shiv asks on this thread why Muslims choose to live in segregated areas. Come on now, Shiv - you cannot possibly be unaware of the near impossibility for even an educated, well-employed Muslim to rent or buy a house/apartment in any non-Muslim area? What have we done to remove this systematic discrimination that exists in our society? Surely there are lots of Muslims who would live in a segregated way even if there were no discrimination. But aren't we to blame at the same time by preventing even those who want to integrate from integrating? What is the justification for the support that many members here openly or tacitly give to the kind of idiots who go around burning churches or terrorizing poor tribals? We are very vocal about saying that nothing - not even personal violence suffered by somebody - can justify the planting of bombs and taking of other lives. And rightly so. But then how can anybody here justify violence even if the allegations on harvesting of souls were true? And what kind of credibility do you have saying anything about terrorism when you support one kind of terrorism (even if it does not involve bombs)? Other than the technical details of how it was done, how is the killing of dozens of innocent people in a bomb blast more heinous than the killings of dozens of innocents in deliberate arson or using swords and knives?

I am sure people will jump on me for saying these things, just as people have jumped on somebody like B. Raman for saying that we need to tackle violence by Hindu organizations at the same time as strengthening intelligence within the country, rebuilding offensive capabilities inside Pakistan and overhauling our outdated laws on terrorism. And that despite the fact that he has done more to fight terrorism, at risk to his own security, than any of us has. You may silence me, but the facts will not change. And the fact is that our ambivalent approach towards terrorism by the Sangh parivar organizations and others makes it harder to tackle the very serious problem of Islamist terror that we face. Politicians like Mulayam, Laloo and many others, including in the Congress, who protect the likes of SIMI need to be jailed. But how can we at the same time say that we support another politician like Modi who protects those who have openly admitted on camera to killing dozens of innocent people? Our ambivalent approach ensures that we neither jail Mulayam, nor Modi. And everybody continues to suffer as a result.

I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, unless we get rid of the pseudo-secularism practiced by so-called secular politicians and many of their supporters, but also of the pseudo-nationalism that the Sangh parivar politicians and many of their supporters practice. The likes of Sardar Patel, Rajaji, and let me add, Nehru, are long dead. No political organization today (including many so-called "cultural" organizations) has the interests of the country or its people as its primary objective. And they will not unless we force them to.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Eshwar » 24 Sep 2008 00:00

Sridhar,

Do you think creating truth commissions to look into the atrocities, human genocide, cultural genocide, etc committed by Islamic hordes before the British came to India would help in pacifying the people whom you call Hindu fanatics/fundamentalists? Symbols of these atrocities can be found everywhere in India. I think with increasing access to truth about the past there is a real danger that the 830 million Hindus in India could be radicalized if such truth commissions are not setup. There is increasing evidence of activism shown by even non-radicalized Hindus to protect their culture and cultural symbols.
Last edited by Eshwar on 24 Sep 2008 00:06, edited 1 time in total.

svinayak
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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby svinayak » 24 Sep 2008 00:06

Eshwar wrote:Sridhar,

Do you think creating truth committees to look into the atrocities, human genocide, cultural genocide, etc committed by Islamic hordes before the British came to India would help in pacifying the people whom you call Hindu fanatics/fundamentalists?

Probably changing the textbooks to reflect true history may be a good idea to start with.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Abhijit » 24 Sep 2008 00:11

Sridhar saar,
terrorism by the Sangh parivar organizations

I googled this and the links are the standard bile and bromide purveyed by the neo-christian ans CAIR-like organizations. I would like to have a debate with you (I am aware of how methodical and completely fair you are and have had the pleasure of having my lone contribution to BRM vetted by you. So I hold you in very high esteem, while I am just a bumbling, inarticulate common person. )
To start, here are some of my questions/requests:
- Please site 5 examples of 'terrorism by the Sangh parivar organizations' in the past two years with documented proofs of RSS condoning them/instigating them. While we are on it, I presume that by Sangh parivar, you mean RSS, BD, SS, VHP. Is there any other org that you consider part of the SP (sangh parivar) and is involved in what you call terrorism.
- Do you question the veracity of the claims that in Orissa and Karnataka (as indeed in most other states in India) a campaign of conversion by coercion/inducements is on the way and is most likely funded by external entities such as Vatican, EJ's?
- If you believe that such a campaign is on, do you take a strict constitutional view that anybody is free too profess/practice/preach any religion even if it involves inducements, coercion and other unsavory means ?
- Can you put into a relative context the so-called 'terrorism by the Sangh parivar organizations' Vs the Islamic terrorism most of India has been subjected to? Indeed can you defend a relative (and not moral) equivalence between the two as you seem to be doing in your post above?
- I agree that it will be probably difficult for a Muslim family to find accommodation in a Hindu locality. Do you believe that this is due to discrimination or fear?
I agree that violence needs to be abhorred and shunned and that includes the violence by the -so-called sangh parivar outfits. People who draw a moral and inexplicably relative equivalence (that is they claim that the scale of the two violences is equal) between the two do not wish to get into the cause and effect discussions. IMHO, the so-called Hindu violence is a backlash against the legitimate limits of Hindu tolerance being stretched to breaking point. Instead of addressing the root cause of 'sangh-parivar' anger, that is the free hand given to the EJ's and vaticanists to prey upon Hindus while the Hindus suffer silently and uphold the constitution. remove the cause and the effect will disappear.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby vsudhir » 24 Sep 2008 00:29

Theek hai.

Nobody's perfect. Every group has violent and extremist elements threatening everyone's peace. yada yada.

All the angst about it online too shal produce zilch. In the end, when things go too far to one side, the system either corrects itself or perishes (i.e. morphs into something unrecognisable and likely, unsustainable, like Pukistan demosntrates, daily).

This outpouring of 'yindoo terror' is also a reaction to abrahamic attacks. The willingness to be apologetic amongst aam yindoo seems to be on the decline (unles I'm totally misreading the situ) in all the areas where riots have happened and yindoo reactionism has ignited. All this will find its equilibrium somewhere, I reckon. Whether that equilibrium will come about after Indics are reduced to a minority in this country, or in large pockets of this country, I dunno.

I've some bit of faith in our desi democratic (and dare i say it, inherently tolerant dharmic) ethos, and I believe, electoral math will soon either favor defence of Indic faiths codified in law and in practice, or the country we love so well will change demographically and democratically into something unrecognisable. And if we allow it to happen, maybe thats fine too.

Wahan EU mein white youngesters (defined as folks below age 45) are heading towards minority status, yahan amrika mein goras will become minority by 2042 (going by linear projections of current trends), who knows wahan yindia mein kya hoga? Wait, watch, hope and pray.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sumeet » 24 Sep 2008 01:02

Sridhar even looking @ your post dispassionately I can see you are missing important points.

About VHP, RSS & BD and like: I agree at they do have people amongst them who are hooligans and fanatics. They will go around vandalizing property, spreading violence but their efforts are mostly targeted at something/some people they perceive as guilty of a specific offense. It isn't indiscriminate violence as in the case of Islamic terrorist.

Secondly the attack is not against Govt & associated Institutions of India, sovereignty of the country and neither against question of validity of any religion including Islam. You cannot claim same for Islamic terrorist whether foreign born or native. They are attacking economy of India. If for argument sake we accept that they can seek revenge then have you forgotten the way udham singh etc seeked revenge for jallian wala bagh. They want Islamic caliphate established in India. Other religions if they at all survive will survive as its said in Quran, submissive to state of Islam. What a dignified existence. That is the actual plan. It just happens that things like Godhra 2002, or 1992 Babri Masjid demolition just proves helpful to tactfully further their agenda.




Coming back to VHP, RSS etc.. you have to understand the injustices done to hindus and other native population of this country by Islamic goons that invaded us. That too when we haven't invaded others to bother them. Also, note apart from not physically invading other people, we neither religiously invade them because indic religion don't proselytize. Its not that they cannot accept converts just that we don't go actively seeking them or encouraging people to do that. Yet outsiders bothered us in our own homeland for centuries at a stretch.

Most hindus have not forgotten that history even though we have become independent. Resentment against Islamic extremism & terrorism in India is perhaps highest in the world today barring Israel. Some hindus loose control of their calm and control when they percieve anything that bears any kind of semblance to our traumatic past. They exist in the form of BD. They especially loose it when they see fellow hindus who call themselves secular play a active role in the repetition of the semblance.

By the way misplaced priorities of IMs is the major obstacle that prevents them from integrating into Indian society. Just think: Salman Khan is not considered outcast from community for his rash behavior/loose temper, driving over poor homeless fellows and the like, but he is if he participates in Ganesh puja in a cultural way.

India should abolish all relations with Israel no matter how ever much Israel is helping us, no matter how ever much this relation is strategically important to India since for IMs its Islam first and Indianess if & when they can accommodate. And mind you the type of IMs I am referring to here are not SIMI cadres, the common IM on the street.

While like you I would love to see rule of law be established in this country and be dispassionately practiced but that cannot happen till IMs stop exploiting Indian secularism [ accept uniform civil code w/o any takleef] & there are no power hungry politicians like mulayam, lalu, congress who for sake of votebank will let ranting and raving IMs get away with every demand of theirs.

You have quoted B Raman but did you realize he has also said that Indian Terror Policy cannot be framed by IM intellectuals & key figures. Didn't you notice not even single IM organization has come forward to support jammuites against anti nationals in Kashmir ? Buddy at the end of the day India belongs to indic religion and those that can assimilate with it.

We accept validity of other paths to God, and that is more than what secularism asks for. The VHP types can be counseled and will withdraw if they are made to realize that in reality congress & other p-sec parties have mended their ways in accordance with the traumatic history of this country. Those amongst them have become irredeemable cases can be taken care of by law. Hindus will not protest in herds like IMs.

also, have you ever noticed forget India even in other countries where muslims are a sizeable chunk they prefer to live together and lock it out for others. That is precisely the reason why these terrorists seek shelter there. After all who is providing refuge to OBL & Talibunnies. Their own co-religionists. Everywhere there is the same pattern being repeated.

Indic people are willing to work towards integration if Muslim come forward as well. Its going to be a two way street. One will have to accept that all that there is to Islamic history of India isn't simply Akbar but Aurganzeb types as well both before and after him. Since image is everything for IMs they have trouble accepting that. Till this image issue isn't done away with I don't see assimilation of Muslims anywhere and not just India.

If higher caste atrocities can be talked about then so can be Islamic terrorism referred to openly.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby fanne » 24 Sep 2008 01:06

bhains ke age bin bajana

Prem
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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Prem » 24 Sep 2008 01:18

fanne wrote:bhains ke age bin bajana


And that is P-SEC/Jahiliya,Bhains knows Danda onlee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQE12PuC ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz6sveiN0E0
Wo Macchar been bajate hai, wo apna raag sunati hai.
Last edited by Prem on 24 Sep 2008 01:23, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby ManishC » 24 Sep 2008 01:19

And the fact is that our ambivalent approach towards terrorism by the Sangh parivar


So "Hindu terrorism" repeated ad nauseam has begun to be accepted as gospel truth.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sridhar » 24 Sep 2008 01:25

Abhijit,

There are lots of evangelists and many of them say a lot of hateful things. I am for curbing such practices, as I am for curbing their ability to coerce anybody into converting. For instance, a classmate of mine, converted to Christianity because that was the condition for admission to a top-level medical institution. Such practices need to be curbed. I am also not for appeasement of minorities. I do not think, however, that we should be condoning violence against converts or even for that matter of the evangelists themselves. I don't see the ends justifying the means in this case. And yes, I am a constitutionalist. The constitution does not condone conversion through coercion, through the threat of violence. It does not condone hate speech, at least in spirit.

As to terrorism, (or if you prefer, indiscriminate violence against innocents) by Sangh Parivar organizations, how much evidence do you need? Just because there are opportunistic or in some cases outrightly anti-national elements also talking about it or blowing things up or even making things up in some cases, facts don't change. I am certainly not going to give a list of incidents, both because it is not directly pertinent to this discussion and also because it is quite absurd to list incidents when they are happening at great regularity, but what more evidence do you need than self admissions on camera? Even in the recent Karnataka incidents, there was self-admission, until it was retracted later on. Nobody, least of all a supporter, is fooled by proforma statements of disassociation when the evidence is all around. It is like the oft-repeated claim of Kashmiri terrorist organizations that they only target security forces and not civilians. There is no credibility to such claims.

I don't think there is an equal-equal. I don't believe in such nonsense. However, the point is that it does not have to be equal-equal. One of the greatest failures of Nehru was that he made a case against majority sectarianism while being softer on minority sectarianism. They were not equal in magnitude or in terms of their immediate threat to peace and if one believed in relative impacts at the time, one may well have been able to support what he did. The policy was a failure because it engendered a legitimate grievance amongst the majority that the talk about secularism was insincere and that it was merely a means to garner votes. The same logic applies when we condone majority-oriented politics, because it generates a legitimate grievance amongst the minority that secularism is hogwash. Such uneven policies only give life to extremism on all sides. I am all against pseudo-secularism, but not for replacing it with pseudo-secularism of a different color. I am against vote-bank politics of the kind pursued by the Congress, but not for replacing it with another kind of vote bank politics.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sridhar » 24 Sep 2008 01:41

Eshwar wrote:Sridhar,

Do you think creating truth commissions to look into the atrocities, human genocide, cultural genocide, etc committed by Islamic hordes before the British came to India would help in pacifying the people whom you call Hindu fanatics/fundamentalists? Symbols of these atrocities can be found everywhere in India. I think with increasing access to truth about the past there is a real danger that the 830 million Hindus in India could be radicalized if such truth commissions are not setup. There is increasing evidence of activism shown by even non-radicalized Hindus to protect their culture and cultural symbols.


Eshwar,

The leftist historians have done a lot of damage to us as a society. I am for overhauling our history books and eliminating the influence of this ideology-ridden body of pseudo-scholars. If a truth commission will help alleviate the sense of hurt amongst Hindus, then that deserves my support too. We should however be willing to accept that the truth lies somewhere between the lies and half-truths propounded by both the leftists and the Hindutva historians. Both are guilty of selective using historical facts to build a case that is hard to justify when you put all the facts together. There are largely pseudo-scholars on all sides. The fact that few kids for over a generation took history out of choice (with most preferring science and commerce streams over arts) meant that we have mediocrity at best in the field. That makes the task of overhauling the discipline in India hard. But we have to make a start by first purging the leftist "historians". We should also stop publicly funding institutions like JNU.


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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sridhar » 24 Sep 2008 01:55

ManishC wrote:
So "Hindu terrorism" repeated ad nauseam has begun to be accepted as gospel truth.


More like violence and terror-tactics by certain organizations (not Hindu terrorism) can no longer be hidden under the rubric of being cultural organizations.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby ramana » 24 Sep 2008 01:59

More Google cache

I still dont see any politician try to explain the police actions to the general public. They are silent and letting the police do their job without any spokeperson. This leaves the field open for the rumor mongers. And is unfair to the public and the police.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Baljeet » 24 Sep 2008 02:04

Ramana Ji
I am surprised you will anticipate anything supportive from these Nikammey, desh drohi Netas to support the police and protect the national security. Their eyes are not on saving innocent lives but their vote banks. As some member succintly quoted Traitor Yadav, "chahe jitne bhi yadav mar jayeen, ek musalmaan nahi marna chahiye"

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Gerard » 24 Sep 2008 02:12

Jamia to use taxpayers' money to defend terrorists

The decision of Jamia Milia Islamia to defend Delhi serial blast accused Mohammed Shakeel and Zia-ur-Rahman would amount to misuse of public funds. There is no provision under the funding rules promulgated by the University Grants Commission under which a university/college can defend an employee or student booked for a criminal act. "The decision of Jamia Vice-Chancellor Mushirul Hasan is most unfortunate as the public funds would be used to defend somebody who is being booked for waging war against the nation," said a UGC official.

The claim made by the Jamia Vice-Chancellor that the university being an autonomous body was well within its rights to take decisions on such matters has come to be questioned. Within hours of suspending two students who were arrested in connection with the Delhi serial blasts, Mushirul Hasan declared on Monday night that the university would defend its students in court.

While releasing funds to the universities/colleges, UGC issues guidelines on how the expenses have to be made from these funds. The executive head of the institutions that is the Vice-Chancellors in the case of the universities and Principals in the case of the colleges are made responsible for the expenditure of the funds in accordance with the guidelines. If the expenses are not made according to the guidelines it amounts to financial misconduct.

In cases where the guidelines are silent, the General Financial Rules (GFR) of Government of India have to be followed. It's a practice that an officer from one of the Central financial services is posted to the Central universities as Financial Adviser to monitor the expenditure of the public funds. "In the name of autonomy, the university cannot promote subversive activities," said a senior intelligence official.

There is provision for legal expenses in the universities under non-recurring budget. But these expenses have to be made where the university/college has been made a party. These cases generally relate to the civil and service matters. If a principal/head has been booked for a criminal case or in civil matter, he has to arrange for his own defence. "When Zakir Hussain College lecturer SAR Gilani faced a similar case, he arranged for his own defence. He was suspended from the service till he was declared innocent," said a Delhi University official.

Claiming that Jamia's reputation was at stake, Hasan had said in a statement, "The university feels morally bound to defend its students until proven guilty and we will use the legal apparatus for this." Mohammad Shakeel, a student of MA (Economics) and Zia-ur-Rehman, a student of final year BA (Pass), were suspended by the Vice-Chancellor on Monday but soon thereafter he succumbed to the pressure of Islamist elements on the campus announcing the decision to defend the subversives.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby munna » 24 Sep 2008 02:25

Sridhar wrote:
ManishC wrote:
So "Hindu terrorism" repeated ad nauseam has begun to be accepted as gospel truth.


More like violence and terror-tactics by certain organizations (not Hindu terrorism) can no longer be hidden under the rubric of being cultural organizations.

For god sake Sridhar this is getting serious! You are going on repeating unfounded and uncorroborated charges against certain people without giving a thought to the fact that Sangh Parivar has never condoned any violence any where including in Karnataka or Orissa. Let me give you a definition of what terror is go on any public forum or media where anybody and everybody can notice you and criticise the holy books of Hindus and the unmentionable religion. Let us see which Hindu terrorist terrorises you? For a clear definition let us compare M.F Hussain V.S Danish cartoonist case despite repeated provocation from Hussain not a single attempt on his life took place by the HINDU TERRORISTS but only one cartoon by the artists was enough for people here to do things that are simply terror and nothing else. You have no incident to tell or claim apart from mob violence which can very well be result of real grievances of people. It is people like you who branded Jammu agitators as Hindu fanatics and terrorists! Simple fact is people are angry and they are doing things which do not suit a civilized democracy it is at best communal violence and at worst criminal mob mania. But terrorism?? :(

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby fanne » 24 Sep 2008 02:33

Humm bhains ke age bin bajana

ramana
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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby ramana » 24 Sep 2008 02:39

fanne, sigh. Dont add to the troubles of the admins.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Leonard » 24 Sep 2008 02:47

Sridhar wrote >>>
Shiv asks on this thread why Muslims choose to live in segregated areas. Come on now, Shiv - you cannot possibly be unaware of the near impossibility for even an educated, well-employed Muslim to rent or buy a house/apartment in any non-Muslim area? What have we done to remove this systematic discrimination that exists in our society? Surely there are lots of Muslims who would live in a segregated way even if there were no discrimination. But aren't we to blame at the same time by preventing even those who want to integrate from integrating?
<<

Sridhar ji:

Could you kindly explain the formation of

1. Bradford Muslim Ghettos ??
2. Detroit Muslim Ghettos ??
3. Birmingham Muslim Ghettos ??

Why is it that the Rest of us Indians (Christians, Sikhs, Parsis, Jains & Buddhists) have no problem finding accomodation or rental units in the rest of India ??

P***y footing Islamists by the Indian Politicians have led to this impasse today ... !

Any Muslim that would pick up a rock, would be instantly SHOT dead in any town in the USA, or in Saudi Arabia or in Singapore ..

Yet the GOI tolerates sch...ks like Geelani, Yasin Malik, Umar Farooq, Bukhari and dumasses like "Arundhati BOAST", Angana Phartterjee, etc etc ...

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sridhar » 24 Sep 2008 02:52

Leonard: I agree with you. However, this problem of not finding flats for rent or purchase is not unique to Muslims. In many cities, SCs find it very hard to rent an apartment in upscale neighborhoods. So let's not disregard the real discrimination that exists, while also noting that all of it is not discrimination alone.

My intention is not to promote another slanging match here - that will not be a productive use of anybody's time. However, I do urge everybody to look at holistic solutions to our problems, rather than looking at one-sided solutions that can only be of a stop-gap nature.
Last edited by Sridhar on 24 Sep 2008 03:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby munna » 24 Sep 2008 02:59

Taking off from Leonard's post why do the one that must not be named religion's followers have a troubled relationship with the societies in which they live irrespective of the fact whether they are natural or naturalized citizens of the country. Or even that blame lies on Hindu terrorists like me :evil:. Sirji I have lived and experienced the days of terror and your posts clearly belie a very naive and media fed perspective of the recent events if even 10 mark my words 10 hindus were to indulge in terror all the Mulayams and Laalus will voluntarily line up for the nearby shakhas :rotfl:. Dont call hooliganism as terror my humble request only.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby CRamS » 24 Sep 2008 03:00

Sridhar:

I have been on record and everybody knows it, I do hold Narendra Modi accountable for post-Godhra slaughter of Muslims who had nothing to do with Godhra. I however, don't hold him directly responsible, he was either incompetent or lackadaisical. People don't realize it, but apart from the moral dimension, what happened post Godhra has severly undercut India's standing and its now used as an albatrross around India's neck by every Indian hater. And most importantly, the post-Godhra slaughter helped TSP's Godhra game plan succeed agianst their wildest dreams: they paid no price, nada, zilch for the Godhra slaughter of Hindus with the help of their local boys, and laughed off all the way to the bank as Gujarat descended into a medival killing field for days post Godhra.

But that said, bringing in Hindu excesses and Modi in discussions related to Isalmic terror perpetuated by TSP in collusion with Kashmir & other Indian Muslims is a grotesque, deviant form of moral equivalence. It trivializes the Isalmic terrorist plot to destroy India, and belittles India's need to be aggressive on these scum. There is a place and time to disucss Hindu excesses and Hindu extremism: the shiv-sena, Bajrang Dal varierty, but not after Islamic terror incidents like the recent Delhi blasts and umpteen others. By doing so, you are joining the ranks of Arundathi Roy and her ilk.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Muppalla » 24 Sep 2008 03:03

"Handling of Islamic Terror" is going to be election issue for real in India in 2009. This is giving jitters to political spectrum minus BJP, media and Indian RAPES. These jitters are the reasons behind new phrases like "Hindu terrorism" and "Hindu terrorists". We will see these kinds more in the coming days. Added fears are also due to the delimitation of parliamentary constituencies which increased the urban numbers. Terror occurs in cities and this is the reason for such an election issue.

The aam junta is coming to a conclusion that unless the real Islam is defeated there will be no respite and the junta is mentally getting ready for all types of wars on Islamic Terror. This section is growing and is not going to listen and they are seriously looking for Modi types acorss India.
Last edited by Muppalla on 24 Sep 2008 03:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby munna » 24 Sep 2008 03:07

Muppalla wrote:"Handling of Islamic Terror" is going to be election issue for real in India in 2009. This is giving jitters to political spectrum minus BJP, media and Indian RAPES. These jitters are the resons behind new phrases like "Hindu terrorism" and "Hindu terrorists". We will see these kinds more in the coming days.

Quite true, seems to be good false flag operation by government spooks, media and other flag bearers but they will have their moment in the sun :wink: .

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Abhijit » 24 Sep 2008 03:13

CRS:
bringing in Hindu excesses and Modi in discussions related to Isalmic terror perpetuated by TSP in collusion with Kashmir & other Indian Muslims is a grotesque, deviant form of moral equivalence

bingo! Moreover the votaries of this moral(!) equivalence such as aroys, M(uslim) Bhatt and their cohorts go many steps further. They claim that the former (Modi et al) are the reason, nay the prime and only cause, why the latter happens. So when hundreds of innocents die in terror attacks, out comes the virulent attacks on Modi, RSS, Hindu fascists and what not and not a peep against the RoP.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 24 Sep 2008 03:24

In many cities, SCs find it very hard to rent an apartment in upscale neighborhoods.


I will be very surprised if hindus in upscale neighbourhoods ask for the caste of the tenant first before deciding to give the house on rent. Sounds like missionary propaganda. I have been living in apartments in Delhi all my life and am yet to know the caste of the neighbours. There is a vague idea that someone is from rajasthan, someone belongs originally to PUnjab or the Hills, but that is about it. Nobody in upscale neighbourhoods cares about caste. They are too Westernised for that. Caste is a rural phenomeona. The more urbanisation there is, the more people drift away from caste till it becomes totally irrelevant. Only in arranged marriages people enquire about it. I do not think caste is any factor in day to day lives in cities.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby munna » 24 Sep 2008 03:28

Sridhar wrote:However, this problem of not finding flats for rent or purchase is not unique to Muslims. In many cities, SCs find it very hard to rent an apartment in upscale neighborhoods

Most of so called Hindu terrorists Organizations have SCs as their big leaders! Enough off topic stuff I bow out humbly:(

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sridhar » 24 Sep 2008 03:35

Abhijit/CRamS: There is no equivalence. But there is a need to be pragmatic. I don't think we will be able to effectively deal with the issue if we do it selectively. I would like a comprehensive end to extremism of all stripes. Else, we will not be able to stamp out the effects of Islamism in our society.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sridhar » 24 Sep 2008 03:35

munna wrote:
Sridhar wrote:However, this problem of not finding flats for rent or purchase is not unique to Muslims. In many cities, SCs find it very hard to rent an apartment in upscale neighborhoods

Most of so called Hindu terrorists Organizations have SCs as their big leaders! Enough off topic stuff I bow out humbly:(


So?

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby munna » 24 Sep 2008 03:43

^^^^
So it means that your claims of discrimination being the norm in Indian society are not all that sound. Do not try to support the insular and regressive nature of certain people that is on display the world over upon rest of the Indian society. The so called H T organizations have SCs and OBCs (N Modi) as their spearheads. The question here is that to nullify the advantage accruing to the opposition out of mishandling of the internal security by the government is it kosher to sponsor such a dastardly false flag operation to malign your political opponents? My only hope is that the spooks, media and other flag bearers do not end up burning bridges with these parties and create a Gujarat type situation where they are not only powerless but also discredited. This is a dangerous ploy and should have been avoided. My humble bow.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Muppalla » 24 Sep 2008 03:51

Sliding UPA fortunes in terror-hit urban India - The serial bomb blasts in New Delhi that killed at least 20 people have shaken the confidence of the UPA establishment

The Bottom Line | GVL Narasimha Rao

The United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government’s imminent success in clinching the nuclear deal had promoted a feel-good factor among the urban middle classes and restored the stock of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. But the serial bomb blasts in New Delhi that killed at least 20 people have shaken the confidence of the UPA establishment. These blasts have finally woken up the UPA government out of its stupor on terrorism and it is trying to initiate immediate counter-actions to avoid an electoral backlash that would become inevitable. In my assessment, two factors have forced this realization on the UPA establishment.

The first relates to the onslaught by the media in general and television in particular on the UPA government’s failure to thwart repeated terror strikes in metropolitan cities. The media’s scathing attacks on the home minister, Shivraj Patil, including all the ink and time devoted to his sharp outfits, have hit him hard. While many may argue that the home minister’s clothes aren’t really the issue, in public perception he had begun to symbolize the Congress party’s cavalier attitude so far in dealing with terrorism. The UPA leadership would do well to ease him out of the home ministry in a routine reshuffle. Else, he would remain an effective and easy target for the Opposition.

The second factor relates to the success of the Gujarat police in quickly unravelling the role of the Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) behind the Ahmedabad blasts that demonstrated that if there is political will, perpetrators of such dastardly acts can be brought to book.

While UPA leaders will point out that the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)-led National Democratic Alliance’s (NDA) track record on dealing with terror was no better when it was in power, as several high-profile terror attacks, including the attack on India’s Parliament and the Akshardham temple, happened during that regime, a distinction is in order.

Unlike during the NDA regime, the common man has become a target and victim of terrorism as markets, temples and means of transport frequented by them are under attack by terrorists. The frequency of such attacks is also on the rise as last two months saw the three cities of Bangalore, Ahmedabad and New Delhi come under attack.

The BJP, which was unable to get its act together on the issue of terrorism, as this column noted on 11 August, appears to have finalized its strategy and decided to project Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi as its mascot when it comes to how the party will fight terrorists.
The NDA’s prime ministerial candidate, L.K. Advani, has deliberately brought Modi onto the centre stage to lead the BJP’s charge on terror. Advani’s brief to Modi for the Lok Sabha campaign is simple: go after the UPA government for its soft handling of terror. That Modi has begun to take his role seriously is evident from his repeated attacks on the Central government at the BJP’s national executive meet in Bangalore earlier this month and, later, in several public meetings.

On this score, Modi, despite his anti-Muslim baggage, will become a formidable opponent and the UPA leadership fears that he has the potential to pulverize it on the terrorism plank. In Gujarat’s assembly polls last year, he cleverly raised the delay in execution of Afzal Guru for the Parliament attack as a major election issue, which also contributed to the Congress party’s defeat. The UPA now has to worry about a repeat of the Gujarat phenomenon on a national scale.

The emergence of terrorism as a salient electoral issue comes at an inopportune time for the UPA, as it adds to what has been pent-up discontent among the urban electorate over rising prices, rising interest rates, falling stock markets and job cuts due to a sluggish economy, much of it not something that the UPA can fix, given the global economic turmoil that will continue to hurt India’s economy through the rest of this year and beyond.
The bomb blasts have the ability to cast a long shadow over the UPA’s imminent success in clinching a nuclear deal with the US, thus denting the Congress party’s hopes of using that deal as the reason why the party ought to come back to power ,come election time.

Having finally taken inflation seriously, albeit belatedly, the UPA seems to have understood that grappling with terrorism quickly is a critical issue. If actions follow rhetoric and the government is able to avert more, large-scale terror strikes in the months ahead, at least urban voters will surely feel safer. And the re-election prospects of the UPA would become a bit more safer than they are now.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby ramana » 24 Sep 2008 03:56

So whats happening in the Begluru blasts case? I see no updates.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sridhar » 24 Sep 2008 03:59

sanjaychoudhry wrote:
In many cities, SCs find it very hard to rent an apartment in upscale neighborhoods.


I will be very surprised if hindus in upscale neighbourhoods ask for the caste of the tenant first before deciding to give the house on rent. Sounds like missionary propaganda. I have been living in apartments in Delhi all my life and am yet to know the caste of the neighbours. There is a vague idea that someone is from rajasthan, someone belongs originally to PUnjab or the Hills, but that is about it. Nobody in upscale neighbourhoods cares about caste. They are too Westernised for that. Caste is a rural phenomeona. The more urbanisation there is, the more people drift away from caste till it becomes totally irrelevant. Only in arranged marriages people enquire about it. I do not think caste is any factor in day to day lives in cities.


Sanjay: I wish that were the case. But it is not, as evidenced by the mushrooming of "Dalit-only" housing societies across cities. Ahmedabad, Surat, Mumbai and now even Delhi have many such societies. I have not seen a ghetto mentality amongst Dalits - the only thing that explains the need for such societies is their difficulty in buying in other places. Many people, including reasonable people like Narendra Jadhav, have spoken about difficulty in renting. It may be lower in some cities and higher in others. But it exists.

Anyway, enough about this. The main point I am making is that one has to be conscious of the entire social scenario. Terrorism has to be stamped out ruthlessly. And we have to ensure that extremism is stamped out too, because extremism at the very least provides support to terrorism. A selective half-baked approach will not solve the problem - it may only push it out a bit into the future.

I don't wish to prolong this discussion. So this is my last post on this topic.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby munna » 24 Sep 2008 04:03

:(( Phew! So Jain only societies mean that Jains are discriminated against in the cities. There are societies of similar communities because they like to live together like Parsi, Gujarati, Punjabi and yada yada societies. Discrimination is not the cause of having own societies in fact it reflects the growing prosperity of the SCs and their confidence to make their mark and place in this nation. But unfortunately our commentators look for negatives where none exist.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby vsudhir » 24 Sep 2008 04:29

Excellent point, CRS.

Another thread dedicated to Delhi blasts news and discussion now stands successfully derailed. All it took was flamebait of an old variety, that muslim and yindoo extremism is == onlee. They're bad, so what, we're worse. blah blah.

And yes, am also a constitutionalist to the core. I don't condone any unconstitutional means by anyone, period. Pity that a certain community has shown the whole wide world (and not just yindia) that it pays to get aggressive, obdurate, unapologetic, delusional and violent in this country - you become a vote bank and get feted and wooed by the neta class after that. meanwhile if you're aam aadmi, good fuy, law abiding, patriotic, peaceful (the long suffering jammu, ladakhi and gorkhaland folks come to mind) - "b*ll$ to you" is the establishmnt message. Unless you create trouble, nobody takes you seriously (I know, shades of the 'A Wednesday' climax). Sad to say, this is what things have descended to.

Again, I have faith we'll do right and get out of our slumber. There're various time bombs ticking away. The coming massacres in our northeast due to altered demographics will make the pandit cleansing in kashmir look like a picnic. Maybe then, dharma will awake, who knows? (If it doesn't even then, it prolly deserves to die. Ideological darwinism and all that). However nonchalant I try to be at that thought, it disturbs me deeply, admittedly. BUt kya karen, am a relaist now, post BRF.


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