Delhi Blasts news and info

niran · Post by **niran** » 19 Sep 2008 12:45

150 Dilli police had cordoned the house, and 2 still manages to escape.
Absolute medal getting work IMVVHO.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 19 Sep 2008 12:51

NDTV images show chaotic scenes, not much in the way of cordon or sanitation and swarming with press wallahs. if it were me, i'd grab a camera and wander out into the street and quietly walk away...

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 19 Sep 2008 13:12

SIMI office is at walking distance from the encounter place and 2 pigs were shot dead in relation to Red Fort shootings in the same area. Based on what is reported by NDTV India this area is famous for sheltering terrorist as students.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 19 Sep 2008 13:26

ajay pratap wrote:150 Dilli police had cordoned the house, and 2 still manages to escape.
Absolute medal getting work IMVVHO.

the encounter was totally unexpected and police were not prepared for it.
these 150 police, there are more now, came later.
a joint team of delhi police spl cell,IB and gujaratpolice had brought the abu guy to delhi for interrogation. during this he revealed the place he said he had met one of him sympathizers. they took him there to identify the place. soon enquiries were made in the neighbourhood abt the person whom abu had met. it led them to the house were these terrorists were hiding. seeing the police they fired on them. a senior police inspector and another police person were injured. reinforcements were called and two of the terrorists were gunned down, another 1 arrested and 2 escaped.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 19 Sep 2008 13:39

wow, you mean it was a real encounter!

good, either way

niran · Post by **niran** » 19 Sep 2008 13:49

The IBNlive NEWS site says the house was under observation since yesterday evening

Officials also said the area was under watch since Thursday evening.

A force of almost 150 police personnel was deputed in the area to assist the Special Cell in the operation.

The above lines the reason I request medals for Dilli Bolice.

The NEWS clip shows nobody had any clues whatsoever, regarding anti terrorist action.
As Prof. LM wisely says "he could have grabbed a camera and walked away."

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 19 Sep 2008 14:05

Expect this to play out as unfair targetting of Muslims with Maulanas, Bhatts, Setalvads coming forward to claim discrimination against Muslims. Also more demands that police should not act against criminals in the month of Ramazan.

BTW despicable Star News channel did a decent thing: they showed a clip of a press conference of Tauqir with Nagori, after the former's mother claimed he was a good boy onleee.

satya · Post by **satya** » 19 Sep 2008 14:09

Who the hell tipped off these presswallahs when the operation was still going on ? It will only end up raising doubts about this operation , wont be surprised to see our sickular media giving coverage to Mullahs raising accusing finger at police as how press was there to show off the killing and why always AK-47s are found .

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 19 Sep 2008 14:10

Here it begins

Tensions ran high in the Jamia Nagar locality of South Delhi [Images] as news of one religious place being transgressed reportedly by police, during the encounter with terrorists on Friday.

The house where terrorists were holed up lies very close to a religious place. Once the firing stopped, large number of people thronged the narrow lanes of the area and shouted religious slogans.

"We are all against terrorism, then why was our religious places place targeted," asked one of the residents.

Refuting any such news, DCP South Delhi HGS Dhaliwal clarified that no religious place was used during the encounter.

"The firing was done from a place near the religious place," he said.

The tensions were fuelled by rumours that the operation was concocted by police and no fire was shot from inside the house.

Meanwhile, one media personnal, who was informing his office about the encounter, was abused by the local residents. They claimed that no shot were fired from inside the house and the encounter was a blatant lie.

Neighbours of the house where entire operation unfolded, however, confirmed that gun shots were fired from both sides.

"It all started at 10.30 in the morning. We were preparing to go to our work when some police people came in the area," said an eye-witness who refused to disclose her identity.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 19 Sep 2008 14:18

ajay pratap wrote:The IBNlive NEWS site says the house was under observation since yesterday evening

Officials also said the area was under watch since Thursday evening.

A force of almost 150 police personnel was deputed in the area to assist the Special Cell in the operation.
The above lines the reason I request medals for Dilli Bolice.

These policemen were not there from yesterday. they were brought after the encounter started. the same IBN crap spouts this.

Five suspected terrorists, holed up inside..

In the ensuing gunbattle two gunmen were killed while one managed to escape. The fifth gunman has been taken into custody.

The jholawallas cant even count. If there were 5 terrorists,
2 were killed, 1 escaped, 1 was arrested then it makes 4 and not 5. Obvioulsy they did not report that 2 escaped. they are reporting whatever anyone tells them without cross checking the information. if you want to believe such news then go ahead.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Sep 2008 14:24

all news channels are reporting 2 have escaped.

BTW despicable Star News channel did a decent thing: they showed a clip of a press conference of Tauqir with Nagori, after the former's mother claimed he was a good boy onleee.

tauqir's lawyer was literally grilled by arnab goswami on times now and the fellow was forced to concede he was the lawyer for the family and not the boy and that he is not claiming the tauqir fellow is innocent.
wonder why they need one.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Sep 2008 14:40

Azamgarh needs a fallujah style operation involving a couple of IA brigades surrounding it and one brigade kicking in
every door and dragging out every jihadi rat from every burrow. I predict TONS of illegal weapons and jihadi literature
will be found.

if they were observing since Thu evening, really the raid could have been better organized.
if they wanted a media circus so be it - but arrange for NSG troopers in black nomex gear roping
in from a heli and a armoured truck smashing into the front of the house to disgorge more
NSG SAG types.

and any orange bearded type emerging from the mosque to shout slogans should _asap_ have
got the living shit kicked out of him before being dragged by the scruff of his neck to jail
for preventing law enforcement officers in their line of duty.

people only understand the whip and the boot - so be it. we are not trying to win some
popularity and secularism contest here or are we?

maybe our HM vetoed the idea of bringing in a more organized and brutal response to burnish
his secular credentials. could have a taken a swift signal from 10 janpath to even organize this
little affair.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 19 Sep 2008 15:27

Oops double post how do these things happen

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 19 Sep 2008 15:28

ramana wrote:
kshirin wrote:Can someone please tell me why the Blasts in Delhi thread was junked? I came back after a very small gap and found it had been trashed.
No Conspiracy. It was closed normally and a new one opened.

See here

Thanks, sometimes BR is the only way to keep in touch and there was lots of insight on that thread which is why I asked. Example, the current discussion on movies on terrorism, some very insightful comments were posted there which stuck in my mind and I checked out the films and found paralysing parallels.
I am a bit disgusted by the CNN -IBN whitewash of terrorism in their recent report - look at the title -the poll at the end endorses the view that the films on terrorism are biased. Biased? For reporting the truth? Who are these people and don't they feel with the rest of us? Don't their relatives live in these cities and don't they feel anxious and angry at our helplessness? Who did they poll? Probably only from one religion, sorry for saying that but this is ridiculous, our media will to allow us to protect ourselves and our near and dear.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/not-accordi ... 892-3.html

Not according to script: Terror films boost bias CNN-IBN
Published on Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 08:19, Updated on Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 10:21 in Nation section
Gunbattle in Delhi: 2 killed, 1 arrested

Many films in recent times have tried to explore the issue of fundamentalism and terrorism in different types of stories. Mumbai Meri Jaan—based on the 2006 Mumbai train blasts—had actors who looked like ordinary Mumbaikars and spoke like anyone one normally meets in the course of a day. The characters were wore no make-up and the film had no song and dance sequences. Similarly, Mission Istanbul and Hijack were based the real life IC-814 hijack incident. The movies heavily relied on pyro-techniques and loud drama, and exploited the stereotypes.
Last year’s superhitBheja Fry, hailed as new-league cinema, set a more disturbing example. A Muslim character in this film openly supports Pakistan in a cricket match. Many said the film exploited Muslim stereotype in a negative manner.

That begs the question, do Bollywood films move beyond the stereotypes or do they only contribute to existing prejudices in our society? CNN-IBN’s show Face the Nation raised that question.
On the panel of experts to debate the issue were actor Aamir Bashir, who played the role of police officer Jai Pratap Singh in A Wednesday; Pavan Malhotra, who played the role of Tiger Memon in Black Friday; S Hussain Zaidi, author of Black Friday; and Meenakshi Shedde, film critic.
Who imitates whom
At the start of the show, 70 per cent of viewers felt that cinema did indeed promote violence and prejudice and only 30 per cent begged to differ.
Many filmgoers wonder why films like the acclaimed A Wednesday strike a chord with the audiences and at the same time, other films lose out to audience.
Aamir Bashir felt that the film reflected an existing sentiment in the society today. “It is the sign of the times. I do not think A Wednesday promotes prejudice in any way. It only reflects the prejudice that already exists in our society,” he said.
But for many, the idea that a common man must take up arms and take law into his own hands is chilling and disturbing. Is it okay for films to promote these kinds of ideas to people?
Chilling messages and the need to moderate
Meenakshi Shedde said A Wednesday was well crafted as a thriller, but admitted she was extremely disturbed by the message. She said she would have agreed if the film’s argument fitted well.
But the idea of citizens wanting to free terrorists, who have already been caught only so that they (the people) can kill with their own hands, is chilling. Even as an internal logic, that is not justified.
Shedde felt that the same thing was very subtly done in Mumbai Meri Jaan.
Do not read too much into a film
Aamir Bashir felt that the role of cinema is apolitical, asexual and not at all as omnipotent as being analysed by the panel.
Mumbai Meri Jaan, he said, was pitched as a “middle-of-the-road” kind of film, while A Wednesday was an out-and-out commercial film — perhaps the reason why the latter did better commercially.
Black Friday, a film more in a documentary format, carefully avoided the fictional blockbuster style.
Zaidi felt that the film was critically acclaimed but got a discouraging commercial appreciation. “If only the director had budged a little towards the commercial format, it would have been a commercial success,” he said.
“All these three films cannot be similar,” said Malhotra. “In films like A Wednesday let us not put it like the protagonist is saying that hey guys, just go out there and bump them off,” Zaidi added.
“Maybe there is a layer beyond the façade of impotent anger even in A Wednesday and there is a lot of frustration. The film did commercially well, so now we call it a commercial film,” he argued, defending the format.
The egg or the hen first debate
There is this eternal debate of whether life imitates art or does art imitate life. But if one compares Hindi films with its Hollywood counterpart, then there is a clear divide in styles of tackling real-life subjects of sensitive nature.
Hollywood consciously avoids films of commercial nature on tragedies like 9/11.
The ones that got adopted documentary format. Is it necessary to show sensitivity and toe the line of the US film industry or should the Indian films depict terrorism in its blockbuster format, is an oft-debated question.
“Not at all!” said Meenakshi. “It is a free country and everyone is entitled to make films in any format as he wants,” said Meenakshi.
Frog in the pond attitude
But she lamented that in a population of one billion people, not one filmmaker in our country has thought of looking at the global scenario post 9/11 and making a film about that.
She pointed out that on the contrary, a Pakistani filmmaker could bring up a Khuda Ke Liye with a storyline spanning three continents.
Discerning and sophisticated audience
Meenakshi argued films do not affect life as negatively as we imagine. If that were the case, then post Rang De Basanti, in which there was a clear call to go out there and take the law into one’s own hands, there would have been a surge in that kind of violence.
Instead, the discerning audience sifted through the stuff whipped up by the films, said Meenakshi.
She pointed out that the audience was sophisticated, which is why it imitated the ‘candlelight vigil’ or Gandigiri ideas promoted by films to extract desired end effects
Not according to script: Terror films boost bias
CNN-IBN
Published on Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 08:19, Updated on Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 10:21 in Nation section

But the fact is that the Muslim is a prisoner of stereotypes in Hindi films. There are shades of white and black and no shades of grey. There is a good Muslim and a bad Muslim.
If there is a Muslim terrorist, there is a good Muslim cop who bumps him off. In films like Chak De too, the Muslim has to prove his patriotism and commitment to the country’s victory against Pakistan.
Is there still a problem in depicting the Muslim as a complex character?
Zaidi felt that Shah Rukh Khan’s character in Chak De did have shades of grey.
“It was not clear if he lost the match deliberately or whatever,” he said.
Characters can be just Muslim and not necessarily tend to either side of the extremes, he felt.
Bashir, however, disagreed with Zaidi on the subject of portrayal, as there is a certain amount of tokenism involved.
“In our films there is a stereotyping of Muslims and the bad Muslim is counter balanced by a good Muslim,” said Bashir and added that while working in A Wednesday he did feel a little uncomfortable. “But when you are an actor, you keep your politics aside, for you have to enact the role you have agreed to do,” said Bashir.
Why is there so much of violence? Is violence necessary for commercial success?
”Neither Bheja Fry nor Chak De depicted violence. None of these films said ‘let us go and kill people,’” Pawan Malhotra pointed out.
“Yes there was a bias in these films but different filmmakers have different approaches to their films. And yes, it was the responsibility of filmmakers to not send out wrong messages,” said Malhotra.
So as Meenakshi Shedde had pointed out, the audience was smart and sophisticated enough to know what it wants to pick out to take home from the film.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 19 Sep 2008 15:38

"We are all against terrorism, then why was our religious places place targeted," asked one of the residents.

Because the SOB's always end up finding shelter in religious place.
GOI seems to have some strange love for these terrorist scum of the society and then we will have MMS claiming,How he and his ball-less govt is fighting terror.

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 19 Sep 2008 16:30

I am a bit disgusted by the CNN -IBN whitewash of terrorism in their recent report - look at the title -the poll at the end endorses the view that the films on terrorism are biased. Biased? For reporting the truth? Who are these people and don't they feel with the rest of us? Don't their relatives live in these cities and don't they feel anxious and angry at our helplessness? Who did they poll? Probably only from one religion, sorry for saying that but this is ridiculous, our media will to allow us to protect ourselves and our near and dear.

You are assuming that SMS polls are honest. They are not. They are pulled from the arse of the editors. It is a free for all. The same CNN IBN conducted a poll just before karnataka elections which predicted an absolute majority to the congress. You will notice that most SMS polls end up supporting the conclusions of the story being aired. This is not a coincidence.

This is where the absence of a media regualtory authority with punitive powers is felt. There is no government body to protect the interests of readers / viewers and advertisers in the media industry. The editors and owners fudge circulation or viewership figures to fool the advertisers and polls are fudged to fool the readers / viewers. Who is protecting the consumer interest from predatory editors and media owners? There is absolutely no one. This is a totally unregulated industry because of which these mediamen manage to get away with a lot of bullshit.

For example, whenver an channel conduts an SMS poll, the list of phone numbers which sent their response and a copy of their message should be preserved for a month, and any reader or viewer or interested party should have the right to see this record. This is how these editors will be reigned in. Otherwise they will keep using their customers (viewers / readers) as guinea pigs in their propaganda laboratory.

Another trick the channels play in SMS polls is only show percentages of people supporting or opposing, but not the actual number of SMSes recieved. This should be banned and they should only be forced to show the actual number of SMSes recieved for each option.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 19 Sep 2008 16:38

Delhi Police calls it an Independent Operation.
No connection with Abu Bashir.
the apprehended terrorist is identified as Saif

Bad News of today:
Our HM reached Police HQ in time to 'monitor' the operation.

Inspector Mohan Chand Sharma has injured abdomen, thai and shoulders.

namit k · Post by **namit k** » 19 Sep 2008 16:44

Every time there is an encounter like Delhi (,especially in muslim dominated urban areas) is done some local sympathizers of there radicals come out & spread poison in public sentiments and say that it is anti islam,anti muslim,anti minorities, etc,.
Isn't it a good opportunity to capture some isi sleepers.
forget about that, our admiistration is so fantastic that ,for example, recently i saw an old video in which policemen, instead of gunning down,were protecting simi leaders while they were delivering anti_Indian slogans at some place in maharastra,some 10 yrs back, what is this?, democracy, or foolocracy.

BSR Murthy · Post by **BSR Murthy** » 19 Sep 2008 16:56

It is medal getting work, indeed. The police risked their lives and got shot in the operation. I thank the cops and and offer my sympathies and gratitude to their families.
I agree with Sanjaychaudhry on the media. The Indian media needs a watchdog/ombudsman and are required to keep a record of the material and methods of the polls and reporting.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 19 Sep 2008 17:23

The Indian media needs a watchdog/ombudsman

They have one - it's called The Hoot. Currently under investigation for helping the terrorists compose emails.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 19 Sep 2008 19:28

Some sad news: Inspector Sharma has died. God bless and condolences to his family.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 19 Sep 2008 19:33

sanjaychoudhry wrote:
You are assuming that SMS polls are honest. They are not. They are pulled from the arse of the editors.

Ha ha haa....Very true. The CNN IBN types are all busy posturing in front of their imaginary white audiences, reading BR has opened my eyes to this persistent mindset.
We should have an ombudsman, I liked Gore's Assault on Reason which shows the dumbing down of the US media, similar phenomenon at work - how do we put these ideas into practice? BTW I always silence silly foreigners who criticise Hindu fundamentalists (getting angry at maniacs who attack other human beings simply 'cos of their religion is not being fundamentalist) by telling them it took a blast and 2 attempted ones to turn the British decisively against Islam, and how many have we taken without indulging in mass reprisals? It is mind boggling. But given the right policies the maniacs would not attack in the first place. My congratulations to Delhi Police and deep sympathies with them.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 19 Sep 2008 19:34

harbans wrote:Some sad news: Inspector Sharma has died. God bless and condolences to his family.

Oh God, how terribly sad. My deep condolences too, I hope his family is looked after.

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 Sep 2008 19:47

A mobile clip shown by Headlines today showed the police team cooly walking upto the door of the hideout when three shots are fired and a policeman(most prob the inspector) gets hits and the entire team starts running helter-skelter taking up positions...

Cannot believe that a team going to arrest few pigs would be so casual with its leader not even wearing a BPJ....Anyways, hats off to a job decently(not great) done. Conflicting reports on NSG involvement with residents saying that they saw NSG guys also and TV channels saying that NSG was on standby.

Alos, it was hilarious to see the NDTV reporter trying to defend a few jihadi mo-fos shouting slogans right behind her against the police!!!!

She kept mumbling things like mosque attack, alienation , discrimination of the entire society, the residents being unfairly targetted(this after a major shootout every year in this locality and she herself saying about a large fight last year between olice and the local "peaceful" residents over hawker eviction!!!), holy month of ramzaan etc...

Are the special branch guys direct recruits or the best of Delhi police? They sure looked smart in their jeans/civvies and Ak-47 in hand, a rogue warrior look on them....

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 Sep 2008 19:50

kshirin wrote:
harbans wrote:Some sad news: Inspector Sharma has died. God bless and condolences to his family.
Oh God, how terribly sad. My deep condolences too, I hope his family is looked after.

RIP sir...

guess the assorted turds like Javed Akhtar, Tessta etc must be glossing over a missed chance of some airtime by jumping up and down about how evil police conducts fake encounters on innocent people of a particular religion...

Makes me wanna tear my hair out when i see these scum.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 19 Sep 2008 20:06

Sometimes people tend to criticize our cops for not being able to plug the holes.

How many of you have been to these crowded warren like places. So cut the poor cops some slack.

RIP Ispector.

At least it shows that we will get them

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 19 Sep 2008 20:07

Cannot believe that a team going to arrest few pigs would be so casual with its leader not even wearing a BPJ....Anyways, hats off to a job decently(not great) done. Conflicting reports on NSG involvement with residents saying that they saw NSG guys also and TV channels saying that NSG was on standby.

This is what really enrages me and strain my well-known peaceful nature. This death would not have occurred, IF the Indian police treatment of Muslims was ANYTHING like what the sh1ts of the anti-India "establishment" claim.

Had this been in the US:

1. They would have sealed off the neighborhood with a helicopter and police cars.
2. Sent in an armored personnel carrier.
3. Stationed snipers on the surrounding rooftops.
4. Dealt with EVERY house by ordering the occupants to come out, and account for the residents.

5. Anyone who even THOUGHT of hesitating would be immediately tackled, probably knocked down with 3 200-lb gents sitting on them, handcuffed, put in leg irons (special Federal and State treatment) and hustled off for interrogation.

6. Entry into the (supposedly unoccupied) houses would be preceded by flash-stun grenades, or at least teargas.

7. THEN, the SWAT team would have gone in, wearing body armor, covered by about 20 rifles, shotguns etc.

8. If shots had come out of the house, they would probably have demolished the house using bombs or missiles from the helicopters.

Instead, what we have here is an incredibly brave police inspector leading his men from the front, knocking at door after door.

Obviously, the loyal, law-abiding, patriotic citizens in the neighborhood would have alerted the p1gs as soon as the police enquired at the first house, so they would have been waiting.

I seriously believe that the police procedures in India need to become a lot more uniform, so that there is no expectation of getting away with anything less than immediate and complete obedience and respect.

As for the TV presence, that was clearly also mandated to bend over backwards trying to show how much of a kid-glove approach the police are using.

This is what brings out the kindest feelings in me towards the low-life like P**** Mishra, ****dhoti Whineroy, and all their ilk.

The net result of all this is precisely what these anti-India gangs hope to achieve: the aam janata is rapidly (and I mean rapidly) losing its natural restraint based on native decency and kindness, towards anyone remotely associatable with any sort of sympathy towards these terrorists. This is what I find truly sad and alarming.

Why send these brave men to their deaths for nothing? Much easier to do a systematic cleaning. I think Old Delhi, parts of Mumbai and Bangalore, a lot of Hyderabad, and most of the K valley, need such clean sweeps.

To quote the introductory sentence in KPS Gill's book:

Terrorism in the Punjab did not end because the "people got tired" - the people never wanted terrorism. Terrorism ended because we killed the terrorists.

Likewise, I think "respect for places of worship" in India is carried waaaaaay too far. If the mosque community knew their place of worship was being used by terrorists, it was up to them to alert the authorities. There is no "sacrilege" in law-enforcement authorities using a mosque to station snipers to kill terrorists. The Law of the Land and the Constitution apply equally inside a ******* mosque (with all due respect) as inside a public latrine.

If the "community" doesn't like that, I want the area converted to one where there is no structure left, so that the terrorists are denied cover. Aerial bombing or missiles are the way to go. The residents can be "processed" with proper ID through gates set up for them to escape.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Sep 2008 20:10

yup N3 you are very right. Fallujah style pacification ops and a brutal kick on anyone
not found 400% obeying instructions in these situations is called for. one squeak of
AoA or "minority harassment" just fall on them and drag them by scruff of neck
for further enquiry.

RIP to the brave man - a victim of the stupid PC approach in tackling terrorists.

a Shmel rocket would have done far better.

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 Sep 2008 20:15

Sorry but the only impression i get when i see the antics of the Jamia nagar residents(wailing about some god-damned mosque in the midst of a encounter) when known armed terrorists are killing cops is that muslims are anti-national,period....

I only fear that these visuals/behaviour of the muslim on the road are only stretching the already "at the limits" patience of the common man(non-muslim,of course) and there will be a massive retaliation against the "minority" after a few more bombs(which are anyways inevitable) which will dwarf post-Godhra riots....

niran · Post by **niran** » 19 Sep 2008 20:26

A verymuch avoidable loss. RIP.

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 19 Sep 2008 20:41

On NDTV India (Hindi) they have already begun doing equal equal thing. They had this "human rights" wala called Gautam something and he as expected began harping on injustice, discrimination..Godhra...Babri...

G Subramaniam · Post by **G Subramaniam** » 19 Sep 2008 20:44

Tamang wrote:On NDTV India (Hindi) they have already begun doing equal equal thing. They had this "human rights" wala called Gautam something and he as expected began harping on injustice, discrimination..Godhra...Babri...

Is it the commie Gautam Navlakha, he is also in favor of giving freedom to Kashmir
In EPW, he regularly spews out a lot of anti-hindu venom

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 19 Sep 2008 20:53

Yep, he was the person there. First he started blabbering about fake encounters then felt comfortable that okay one policeman died so must be a genuine encounter.

G Subramaniam · Post by **G Subramaniam** » 19 Sep 2008 20:54

sum wrote:Sorry but the only impression i get when i see the antics of the Jamia nagar residents(wailing about some god-damned mosque in the midst of a encounter) when known armed terrorists are killing cops is that muslims are anti-national,period....

I only fear that these visuals/behaviour of the muslim on the road are only stretching the already "at the limits" patience of the common man(non-muslim,of course) and there will be a massive retaliation against the "minority" after a few more bombs(which are anyways inevitable) which will dwarf post-Godhra riots....

Daniel Pipes says that only 15% of muslims are active jihadists
but this 15% is a frighteningly large number

Per the seculars it is only 0.0001%

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Sep 2008 21:02

In Philadelphia they bombed the place with a satchel charge and started a fire that burned the neighborhood. And not mention the paragon of virtue Clintotn used a Abrams tank in WACO.
Yes India treats its terrorists with kid gloves and gets noting but abuse from its liberals.

Wish the raiding party had BPJs and other gear. In US nowadays beat cops have BP vests to wear under their uniforms when on patrol.

The lipstick Minsiter (Patil) should not have been there and as it might have inhibited the operations and the press walas could be tipped of by his chelas to present the image of an 'active' Home Minister. I suspect the operation was subdued in execution to suit his delicate sensibilities.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 19 Sep 2008 21:25

Daniel Pipes says that only 15% of muslims are active jihadists
but this 15% is a frighteningly large number

Per the seculars it is only 0.0001%

Ah! Now we can apply the GUESS Predictor-Corrector Algorithm that was so brilliantly validated during the Afghanistan Pakicide Pest-e-Sha'eed of 2001-2002.

This goes to the heart (or musharraf in the case of some people) of the problem.

So let's say that u r a policeman who has to go in and search a house because there is reason to believe that armed, desperate terrorists are hiding there. What is your life expectancy calculation?

If I believe the anti-India lobby, the probability is 99.999% that anyone inside the house is a terrorist sympathizer. So there is no excuse to treat anyone differently from how one would treat, say, a Buddhist.

But let's do the numbers. 150 million Muslims inside India. That's 15E+07. Now so far, I would say that well over 30,000 violent terrorists have been neutralized in J&K alone. Add to that, say, 1000(?) confirmed terrorists involved in attacks in all the Indian cities combined. Say 40,000. The SIMI probably has a membership of about 100,000 (?) of which I would say at least 5000 are sympathizers of, if not actively criminal, terrorists.

Add those up by madarssa math: we get 45E03. Divide by 15E07. I get 3E-04. IOW, 3 out of 10,000, or 0.3% are dangerous terrorists.

So, assuming a uniform distribution all over India, a police officer encountering 3334 Muslims is already living on borrowed time. The laws of probility say that he is cheating Fate.

How do you think he's going to treat the Muslims in the next house where he knocks on the door?
**************

Now let us refine the madarssa math. In Godhra, the population in 2001 was 121,852 Wikipedia violent mob of 4000 participated in the barbecueing of sleeping children in Coach S-6. Assuming that 100% of the terrorist population of Godhra woke up at 6:30am on a winter day and came over to the railway crossing with the gasoline cans, stones, rags etc., that works out to

4000/121852 * 100 which is 3.28267 percent.

So in Muslim-majority areas which are known to be somewhat violence-prone, the police officer's probability of meeting up with a terrorist is once ever 31 Muslims encountered. IOW, if you have already asked 32 people whether they know anything about a few strange Abduls carrying rather heavy-looking umbrellas, he is cheating Fate as he goes up to the 33rd person.

Assuming that there are 15 people in the average Old Delhi Muslim household (Ummah, Uppa, 9 offspring, 3 daughters in law, and TFTA bearded cousin visiting from Lahore), that means that the third house he goes to is a terrorist house, according to the laws of probability.

How many houses did the brave Inspector visit there again? 3? 4? The laws of probability proved their cruel validity. Q.E.D., as much as I hate to see the sheer accuracy of the GUESS Predictor-Corrector demonstrated again.

Indian lawmakers and law enforcement leaders need to look at my madarssa math, and put in a rule that only officers at rank of DIG or higher should be the first ones to go into the 3rd house searched in any such terrorist-supporting area, and that they must be accompanied by the Home Minister when going into the 3rd such house. And that the Home Minister should precede the DIG, given his superior rank. After all, Police should show Propah Respect to the Civilian Elected Netas. And to ensure the fairness of the process, the Home Minister should have an IBN/TOI/HT/The HUNDI papparazzi with them as they knock at the door.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 19 Sep 2008 21:27

harbans wrote:Some sad news: Inspector Sharma has died. God bless and condolences to his family.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9)
Rest in Peace, brave officer.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 19 Sep 2008 21:34

sum wrote:A mobile clip shown by Headlines today showed the police team cooly walking upto the door of the hideout when three shots are fired and a policeman(most prob the inspector) gets hits and the entire team starts running helter-skelter taking up positions...

This could be because the first police party which went in thought that the people they wanted to pick up were not armed. They also might have thought of just going in Mufti and pick these people without much show of force. We have seen how the people in that area behaved. Imagine if the police had gone with a full show of force. Unfortunately for the police posse the terrorists were armed and did not hesitate in opening fire.

Are the special branch guys direct recruits or the best of Delhi police? They sure looked smart in their jeans/civvies and Ak-47 in hand, a rogue warrior look on them....

The people who do encounters etc., may not be part of Special Branch at all. Special Branch people generally work in Mufti and remain "behind the scenes". Most of the police departments have better equipped "Special Operations" type groups to deal with terrorists etc.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Sep 2008 21:38

sacrificed on the altar of our incompetent glory hound HM and his pals in the media.

G Subramaniam · Post by **G Subramaniam** » 19 Sep 2008 21:41

Meanwhile our secular moderate IM leaders
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Leading Indian Muslim bodies form a united forum to fight against govt & media's Muslim bashing campaign

Kashmir Watch

New Delhi, September 19: In a landmark development, heads and representatives of various Muslim organisations and prominent personalities formed an umbrella body� 'Indian Muslim Coordination Committee' to counter the attack on the Muslim community in the garb of terrorist attacks and consequent probes.

Expressing strong anger and displeasure over the Muslim bashing campaign in India and Muslim leaders demanded the government to immediately end this inhuman and unconstitutional operation. Muslim organizations also demanded dismissal of Union Home Minister, Intelligence Bureau chief and Delhi Police Commissioner for their failure in checking the terrorist attacks in the country.

The Muslim leaders present felt that so-called Hind organisations are not leaving stone unturned in terrorising the whole Muslim community while injustice is being done with the Muslim youths and they are being harassed and tortured in jails since several years in the name of terrorism.

An all-party meeting of the heads and representatives of Muslim organisations � Jamaat-e-Islami Hind (JIH), Jamiat-e-Ulema Hind, Muslim Majlis-e-Mushawart, Jamiat-e-Ahl-e-Hadees, Shia Political Front, Muslim Political Council, Majlis-e-Ulema Hind was held at the Headquarters of Jamaat-e-Islami Hind in the Capital.

It was attended by representatives of all prominent Muslim organizations. Besides JIH leaders, the attendees included Dr. Zafarul Islam Khan, president of All India Muslim Majlise Mushawarat, Maulana Abdul Hameed Nomani, acting general secretary of Jamiat Ulama-I-Hind, Maualan Abdul Wahab Khilji of All India Milli Council, Dr Tasleem Rahmani of Political Council of India, Dr Ghulam Yahya Anjum, noted Barelvi scholar and Shia scholar Allama Zishan Hidayati.

A 5-member committee was formed to chalk out plans and strategy to take on the anti-Muslim campaign. The committee had Dr. Zafarul Islam Khan, Maulana Abdul Wahab Khilji, Maulana Abdul Hameed Nomani, Dr Tasleem Rahmani and Mujtaba Farooq, political affairs secretary of Jamaat-e-Islami Hind. Maulana Mahmoodul Hasan of Jamiat Ahle Hadees attended today's meeting as special invitee.

Imam Ahmad Bukhari, Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid of New Delhi could not attend the meeting due to some urgent engagement but he gave his consent to all the decisions of the meeting.

Reiterating the demand from Muslim organizations, the committee has demanded a high-level enquiry into all bomb blasts and terrorist attacks in the country.

Besides sacking of Home Minister, IB chief and Delhi Police Commissioner, the committee also demanded dismissal of home ministers and police chiefs of the states where terrorist bombings took place.

It demanded ban on Hindutva extremist organizations like Bajrang Dal, VHP and Hindu Vahini. There are a number of strict laws that are capable of tackling these crimes and so there is no need of any new law, the committee said.

Another important demand of the committee is that every decision regarding combating terrorism should be taken by taking the Parliament into confidence.

If these demands are not immediately met by the government, strongly presenting demands a massive agitation will be organized at New Delhi's Jantar Mantar on September 26, after the prayer of last Friday (Jumatul Wida) of holy month of Ramazan. Moreover, top leaders of Muslim organizations will give court arrest and a national public convention would be organized soon after the agitation.