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Delhi Blasts news and info

vsudhir
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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby vsudhir » 28 Sep 2008 03:17

The fake liberals, it seems though, are careful not to explicitly cross any law.

Else, why can't they be sued? IIRC Assis Nandy had his backside sued by the Guj govt recently but managed to get away, this time.

Time for a more comprehensive I&B that enables swift prosecution for defamtion, contempt of court and the judicial process via mass-media. Perhaps these laws already exist but only need enforcement?

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 28 Sep 2008 03:36

IIRC Assis Nandy had his backside sued by the Guj govt recently but managed to get away, this time


Jholawala judges ensure fellow jholawalas and seculars do not get prosecuted. The political leanings and integrity of many senior judges are suspect.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby ashish raval » 28 Sep 2008 03:58

Zin wrote:
ashish raval wrote:
Zin wrote:Some people are still living in the taqiyya world of blaming intelligence failure and not having the guts to point out the problem is in islam and not in an intelligence organsization.
In a country which has over 150 million muslims then terrorist attacks by muslims are bound to happen.
Even if you have 100 intelligence organsizations and all co-ordinating with each other even then terrorist attacks will continue unabated.
If any person has doubts about the terror supporting verses, go read the koran before starting the familiar rant of "intelligence failure" and wasting others b/w.


I dont buy what you are saying that terrorist attacks are bound to happen with 150 million muslims. It simply cannot if we have good intelligence, they could be shot down and thrown into Indian ocean even before they meet for a second meeting if we know which a**ho** were present in the first terrorist meeting or even which a**ho*** are teaching them what jihad means. Muslims knows that they have problem in their community and yet they are defying the will of the majority and want to bend the majority to follow what they say. This is absolutely an arrogant behaviour and only helps in fuming the anger in the majority community.


So ashish raval you live in leeds in the emirate of britain. A small question.

Why are the british intelligence agencies not throwing the jehadi muslims there into the pond?
Why did they not prevent London bombings? According your pet theory this must be
again a intelligence failure.
Why are muslims in UK being allowed sharia courts? Again intelligence failure here?

Until you read the koran you wont understand muslim behaviour.


Zin.. my living in leeds does not make me a lesser Indian in any manner nor do I aspire for british passport no matter how long I will live and work here. Answers to your questions are as follows
A.1 ) How can you claim that jehadi muslims are not thrown into the pond. Most of the rats are behind the bars and prosecuted under law with very solid evidence. Those who are not under the bars are under severe surveillence and they will be thrown to rot once the police have enough evidence against them. Half of the hate preaching mullahs are behind bars and most of the mosques are severely infiltrated by undercover agents.

A.2 ) London bombings was done by the people who slipped from surveillence either 1) due to their no criminal or jihadi background which made police to go soft on their surveillence. It was due to lack of severe detention laws that london terrorists were not detained. If something like this even gets planned now, I am sure it gets busted even before they meet for nth time to discuss. It is known that Britain has managed to thwart umpteen attempts after 7/11.

A.3) UK has recently allowed limited sharia courts (marriage and social cases only) because they dont want to alienate Muslims. Not a single criminal or fraud cases are handled by sharia. Giving this much liberty to largest minority is not a big thing. Every country does it.

A.4) I have read parts of Koran and did not find it enlightning in any aspect of spirituality, philosophy or enlightenment. So I have stopped reading it.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby harbans » 28 Sep 2008 04:21

jehadi muslims

Ashish Ji, all muslims may not be Jihadi. But do you know what Islam threatens non Jihadi type Muslims with? Or what punishment it recommends them with? There is pressure within the Muslim community that Jihad is compulsory as mentioned in their doctrine. We have to remove that pressure. The best way is to shut the moderates up and debate the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid and Mullah Omar or Taliban, as they represent TRUE Islam and not Shabana's or Javed Akhtars. When Indian polity and common people first understand that, we'll make the first step to peace. Before that i recommend a reading of Chapter 14 Satyartha Prakash by Dayanand Saraswati in the 19th century. Have posted the link for that in the Islamic thread.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Rye » 28 Sep 2008 04:24

Look at Vinod Mehta spread disinformation in another article on the murder of the Inspector by terrorists.



In the scuffle that followed, Sharma and Balwant got shot in what is being described as "friendly fire".


So the police shot Inspector Sharma themselves according to Smita Gupta and Vinod Mehta.

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fo ... F%29&sid=1

The police claim there are two entry and exit points in L-18, the flat the 'terrorists' were staying in. But there is only one door in the front. So how did the two 'terrorists' escape?


So there is no chance that the other "entry/exit point" was a window? Really now, how stupid does vinod Mehta really think we non-"intellectuals" (unlike him, MJA and his ilk) are? The official statements are being selectively quoted and tied together to mess with public opinion and thus help these terror suspects legally.

They are now going to pretend that the other two died in police custody and the govt. is hushing up their deaths -- the fake liberals who are spreading false propaganda to help terrorists, like Vinod Mehta and MJ Akbar, are truly the irresponsible scum without a conscience. Their willingness to aid violence against the public by spreading lies against the legal machinery will one day visit those two with a vengeance...."what goes around comes around" as they say.
Last edited by Rye on 28 Sep 2008 04:49, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby hnair » 28 Sep 2008 04:32

munna wrote:Hnair, What you do not get is that Z+ is given to a lot of people even Amar Singh! SPG is not merely security it is actually a status in the warrant of precedence for some events and places. Do you think India is a monarchy whereby any and every kith and kin of a former PM should be given SPG? For your kind information even LK Advani and N Modi are given only Z+ and not SPG. Do you suggest rajmata faces graver danger than these two chaps :evil: .


Ultimately it all boils down to influence and whether that will cause a disturbance in the nation, if they get bumped off.
- to oversimplify and use a mil term, SPG is for strategic value individuals and Z+ is for tactical ones. a PM, even if an ex, is by default, a strategic target for forces from outside the country, because of the decisions they had to take. Anyone else is not considered so.
- the late Rajiv Gandhi's spouse, his kids and their family gets it because of the rules of SPG usage. It is clearly there in the SPG act, which got approved (and amended later on) by parliament, cutting across party lines. It is too late to go and say it was wrong and India is not a monarchy etc.
- For good or for bad, Amar Singh is at this moment, amongst the top 10 influential person of India. More influential than many union cabinet members and unfortunately, even the President. Is he a good person who deserves this shield of the tax payer? I personally dont think so. But influential? of course, he is - he saved this govt's ass almost single-handedly. So the Indian establishment, which needs to think beyond politics, needs to protect him.
- LK Advani and Modi were never PMs nor were their spouses PMs. And I also agree that their threat levels do require some serious sheilding.

It is following the rules we all agreed on and that we not try to make it a major issue at this point. This is going way OT on a thread for Delhi blasts. For that is distracting from the serious situation in Delhi and how the current govt (and SG by default) has yet given no coherent answer to their bosses, the Indian people. So my last post.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby ashish raval » 28 Sep 2008 04:43

harbans wrote:jehadi muslims

Ashish Ji, all muslims may not be Jihadi. But do you know what Islam threatens non Jihadi type Muslims with? Or what punishment it recommends them with? There is pressure within the Muslim community that Jihad is compulsory as mentioned in their doctrine. We have to remove that pressure. The best way is to shut the moderates up and debate the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid and Mullah Omar or Taliban, as they represent TRUE Islam and not Shabana's or Javed Akhtars. When Indian polity and common people first understand that, we'll make the first step to peace. Before that i recommend a reading of Chapter 14 Satyartha Prakash by Dayanand Saraswati in the 19th century. Have posted the link for that in the Islamic thread.


Sir, I do not disagree with what you contend. But yes, muslims must acknowledge that there is something wrong only then a solution can be found and not by accusing the majority of injustice and keeping mum when someone among them bombs the majority and then shouting persecution. I will try and read what you have suggested, thanks.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby munna » 28 Sep 2008 04:49

Hnair
1)LK Advani is the head of the party that governs/controls power in over 10 Indian states, N Modi is the leader of the Gujarat (economically most important state) and clearly on the hit list of major terror groups. Amar Singh is not even a wimp in front of these two in terms of power or otherwise.
2)The fundamental point that I raised is that a very high level of protection can be given without using S.P.G as is the case with the other 2 individuals mentioned. Use of S.P.G is one of the very long list of institutional subversion that is being carried on. Hence this issue is very pertinent to the Delhi blasts cause this shows that the government is trying to peddle the concept of maximum security for the family and minimum for the public. A government that clearly does not believe and trusts in the agenda that it is carrying out!

PS: My last post on this issue too.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sanjay M » 28 Sep 2008 05:15

Muppalla wrote:Just to correct you guys regarding Z+ security: All the former prime ministers and their families are entitled to this security. In addition, the SPG makes security and risk projection before providing security. Rajiv Gandhi's family is at the top of the list. Seriously if their security is withdrawn they are history.



There should be a time-limit on the security provided to family members. It can be provided for 15 years, and that's it. After that, they can pay for their own.

Otherwise, all the Neros will have a license to fiddle while Rome is burning, since they'll feel they have waterproof underwear.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Rye » 28 Sep 2008 05:24

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fo ... tory&sid=5

Ignoring the question of whether Bajrang Dal needs to be banned or not (and please do not distract the thread with that) -- as that is not relevant to the point about Vinod Mehta's mendacity. He uses a well-known sleight of hand to manufacture opinions with no basis in fact. Note the headline that says "69% agree with X".

The article openly admits that they conducted a poll of 516 people out of 1 billion, which gives Vinod Mehta precisely zero basis to make any claims because the sample size for the poll is too small. Even 1% of 1 billion tranlates to 10 million -- and even if you consider the polls regionwise, then the results have to be specified regionwise. Instead, this joker Vinod Mehta boldly proclaims "69% of India agrees with X" with a sample size of 516 and that too from the major metros, pretending that this sample size is sufficient to statistically represent the entire spectrum of Indian opinion.

Apparently, there is no need to adhere to statistical norms when Vinod Mehta pulls such conclusions out of his hat, to push his phony liberal views to a gullible public that does not know better on how liars like him manipulate polls to downplay the nationwide terrorism that is scaring the lungis off people all over India.

Methodology: Research Organisation GfK Mode conducted the survey in five cities namely Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta, Lucknow and Hyderabad on September 23 and 24 to understand public sentiment on the recent attacks on minority groups. In all 516 interviews were conducted, broken up into 299 Hindu and 217 Muslim respondents.


What exactly are the assumptions made by these people in "Gfk mode" to pretend that a sample size of 516 and that too only from the metros is a valid poll? Who are these jokers in Gfk mode and what are their credentials?


Also, please stop this whole SG security thingy -- sorry I bought it up.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby shiv » 28 Sep 2008 05:44

I had an "aha" moment after reading MJ Akbar's article.I am referring to the "two terrorists escaped" story and how there was only one exit and how three hooded men were seen in a photograph.

In fact the story gives me some cheer, although everything has been done to create confusion in a typically Indian fashion.

1) I am certain that the police got everyone. Nobody escaped
2) The police deliberately did not want to reveal who was killed and who "escaped" because that would mean "dead end" for their controllers.

If the controllers - in India and Pakistan do not know who is dead and who is caught - there will be panic and that panic will reflect in chatter that can be picked up by intel agencies.

For example if Abdul is conformed dead - Abdul's contacts can relax.

But if Abdul is alive - the police will make him sing and that means Abduls contacts will be at risk and will need to hide. hence the chatter.

So the police have everything t gain from hiding the identities of the dead and the people who are caught.

On a different note - I think the Bajrang Dal is expendable except that it may be a BJP vote bank.

Banning the Bajrang Dal has everything going for it and I am beginning to see more and more merit as to how it can be used.

1) If the Bajrang Dal is banned - nobody can whine that "Hindu organizations are not touched" while SIMI is exterminated
2) By banning the Bajrang Dal a huge grievance will be created among Hindus - which will translate into some benefits some time down the line.

Ban the Bajrang Dal - that will be a way of throwing down the gauntlet. The problem is that the government is as gutless about banning the Bajrang Dal as it is about hurting Muslim sentiment.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Rye » 28 Sep 2008 05:50

I agree. Bajrang Dal is expendable though BJPwallahs would have separation pangs.

The "ban Banjang Dal" non-issue is being raised by the fake liberals to draw attention from the real problem.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby G Subramaniam » 28 Sep 2008 05:58

Rye wrote:http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081006&fname=Cover+Story&sid=5

Ignoring the question of whether Bajrang Dal needs to be banned or not (and please do not distract the thread with that) -- as that is not relevant to the point about Vinod Mehta's mendacity. He uses a well-known sleight of hand to manufacture opinions with no basis in fact. Note the headline that says "69% agree with X".

The article openly admits that they conducted a poll of 516 people out of 1 billion, which gives Vinod Mehta precisely zero basis to make any claims because the sample size for the poll is too small. Even 1% of 1 billion tranlates to 10 million -- and even if you consider the polls regionwise, then the results have to be specified regionwise. Instead, this joker Vinod Mehta boldly proclaims "69% of India agrees with X" with a sample size of 516 and that too from the major metros, pretending that this sample size is sufficient to statistically represent the entire spectrum of Indian opinion.

Apparently, there is no need to adhere to statistical norms when Vinod Mehta pulls such conclusions out of his hat, to push his phony liberal views to a gullible public that does not know better on how liars like him manipulate polls to downplay the nationwide terrorism that is scaring the lungis off people all over India.

Methodology: Research Organisation GfK Mode conducted the survey in five cities namely Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta, Lucknow and Hyderabad on September 23 and 24 to understand public sentiment on the recent attacks on minority groups. In all 516 interviews were conducted, broken up into 299 Hindu and 217 Muslim respondents.


What exactly are the assumptions made by these people in "Gfk mode" to pretend that a sample size of 516 and that too only from the metros is a valid poll? Who are these jokers in Gfk mode and what are their credentials?


Also, please stop this whole SG security thingy -- sorry I bought it up.


Total respondents = 217 + 299 = 516

69% = 356

Assume the anti-Bajrang dal is 215 muslims + 141 hindus = 356

Among the hindus, only 141 out of 299 are anti-bajrang dal, about 47%
Meaning among hindus, 53% are pro-bajrang dal

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby G Subramaniam » 28 Sep 2008 06:02

Rye wrote:I agree. Bajrang Dal is expendable though BJPwallahs would have separation pangs.

The "ban Banjang Dal" non-issue is being raised by the fake liberals to draw attention from the real problem.


Actually what happens is that many hindu musclemen join bajrang dal and then realise that is all words and no action

These then split away and join Sri Ram Sena of Pramod Mutalik

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Rye » 28 Sep 2008 06:04

GSubramanian,

Ignoring all that percentage calculation and the conclusion..that is not the point --- the question is whether a sample size of 516 is large enough? You seem to believe it is sufficient, since you have gone ahead and done some analysis based on those numbers and come to various conclusions. What are your assumptions?

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sanjay M » 28 Sep 2008 06:12

What's more important is for Hindus to create blogs and journals like offstumped, to more effectively take on the Left-wing media. It's much more effective to document/video-record the belligerence of the Left, than to simply trade blows with them. There's a wider audience whose hearts and minds we need to fight for.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Rye » 28 Sep 2008 06:22

It maybe prudent to get off this "we hindus" trip and take matters from a wider perspective -- there are muslims who are against all this nonsense going on in the name of "secularism" in India too. Alienating them does not help anyone.

OTOH, there is no problem alienating the likes of Bukhari and MJ Akbar and Vinod Mehta -- they can all head out and live in Pakistan given their love for Pakistan and the terrorists the pakis keep sending to/training in India.
Last edited by Rye on 28 Sep 2008 06:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby munna » 28 Sep 2008 06:25

^^
Second that Rye but the fact is that the mantle of leadership of muslims has been entrusted to mullah elements by the P Secs and HFLs. How to get them (sane voices) to speak and empowering them is a challenge to all nationalists alike.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Rye » 28 Sep 2008 06:39

At least Hindustan Times is indulging in more responsible reporting compared to tabloids.

Cross-posting from psy-ops thread.

Jittery, but India hasn’t lost faith

Thirty-eight bomb blasts have ripped through four Indian cities since May 13 this year, killing 128. Small wonder, then, that Indians are afraid — but there is cause yet for hope amid the fear.

A Hindustan Times-CNN-IBN poll conducted across major cities on September 24 and 25 showed that 81 per cent fear for their and their family’s safety. However, this hasn’t caused people to lose faith in the ‘other’. The survey showed that 72 per cent people don’t distrust those from another faith. And 61 per cent said terrorism has nothing to do with religion. A majority — 58 per cent — say they would rent out their house to a person of another faith.

Our sense of security, though, is depleting. It is the insecurity that comes from not knowing if one’s trip to the neighbourhood market will be the last.

Businessman Rajesh Gupta’s tale is symptomatic of this. His wife Rajni was visiting her parents in Karol Bagh on September 13. In the evening, she decided to go shopping for curtains. Fate placed her only metres away from a bomb that went off at Gaffar Market. She died.

“Rajesh hasn’t cried since he came to know of bhabhi’s death. He has become expressionless,” said his inconsolable brother Santosh that night.

India has reacted to the horror by asking for an iron fist — 90 per cent believed time has come for tougher anti-terror laws. They’re willing to walk the talk on that — 82 per cent said they’re fine with stricter security measures in return for safety. A majority — 77 per cent — said they were willing to lend the authorities a hand by educating others on how to be more cautious.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby hnair » 28 Sep 2008 06:44

Australia await security update after New Delhi blast

Recall the Pakis fuming over Oz canceling their trip due to "security reasons" and yet going ahead with the India tour?

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby A Arun » 28 Sep 2008 06:53

On NDTV's Big Fight aired saturday, Teesta Setalvad called Swapan Dasgupta a BJP worker. Swapan in turn called Teesta an "over ground worker for the terrorists." :D

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Singha » 28 Sep 2008 07:02

ya I took one look at the fat piggy and her foul mouth and yuck immediately changed the channel.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Singha » 28 Sep 2008 07:17

another IMus terrorist in the bag:-

New Delhi: The Karnataka Police claim they have made a breakthrough in the Bangalore blasts case with the arrest of a 23-year-old student of architecture.

Mohammed Sami was picked up from Bijapur a few days ago. He is alleged to have been in touch with Indian Mujahideen mastermind Tauqueer, before and after the blasts in Bangalore.

Reports say the police also suspect he was the man who planted the bomb at Madiwala.

Sami has been taken into police custody for 14 days. A seventh semester student at Bijapur's SeCab Institute, Sami was staying in Bangalore with one of his friends at the time of the blasts.

Nine bombs exploded on July 25 in Bangalore killing two people and injuring six others. The intelligence agencies suspect the hand of local militants behind the low-intensity blasts.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Singha » 28 Sep 2008 07:22

we missed this. a similar bomb exploded in Dharavi on Friday. The Chindu reports
police confirming it was a bomb.

TOI:

Youth injured in low-intensity blast
27 Sep 2008, 0556 hrs IST,TNN

Mumbai: A 20-year-old youth was injured when an abandoned steel tobacco box exploded while he was trying to open it on Friday afternoon. His father had found the box outside their house in Dharavi.

The youth, identified as Santosh Vatkar, removed the wrapper in which the box was kept, the police said. As the steel box was shut tight, he banged it on the floor. This caused the explosion.

It was a low-intensity explosion in which Santosh's two fingers on the left hand were severely injured , while his mother Kamal and father Prabhu sustained minor injuries. They were treated at Sion Hospital. Prabhu had climbed the wall that separates the tenements and a police station to water the plants. He said, "I saw a box that was kept in one of the pots. Out of curiosity, I took it to my house and tried to open it. My son, seeing me struggle with the box, came to help me. When he failed to open the box he banged it on the floor. Suddenly, there was an explosion,'' he said. ACP (Kurla Division) Mohammed Javed said, "The explosive material has been sent for testing.''

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Singha » 28 Sep 2008 07:48

does Pune have strongly defended musalman ghettos as in Hyd ? reports say IM tier-1 has strictly
told the Ansars that Pune and Hyd are not to be attacked. which means there are important centers
of leadership/logistics and they do not want police activity in these cities.

the Madivala bomber was arrested in Bijapur when he returned from Pune.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Vikramaditya » 28 Sep 2008 08:32

1) If the Bajrang Dal is banned - nobody can whine that "Hindu organizations are not touched" while SIMI is exterminated


That would be a mistake IMHO. By doing so we will subconciusly conceed moral highground to these bozos who dont have any morals. Secondly there is no guarantee that they will stop at that if anything this will make them bold enough to ask for more such sanctions with BJP being the ultimate target. A better way to go about it would be to shout down these guys and point out that Bajrang Dal was the only party that oposed Muslim Personal Law (Fathered by Congress) back in the 80s. Again comes down who can create more decibels. Again requires sympathic big media houses which are sadly non-existant. But one should never fall for this trap.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby shiv » 28 Sep 2008 08:46

Vikramaditya wrote:
1) If the Bajrang Dal is banned - nobody can whine that "Hindu organizations are not touched" while SIMI is exterminated


That would be a mistake IMHO. By doing so we will subconciusly conceed moral highground to these bozos who dont have any morals. Secondly there is no guarantee that they will stop at that if anything this will make them bold enough to ask for more such sanctions with BJP being the ultimate target. .


And guess where that will lead in India? Civil war.

In fact civil war is what the islamists have started against India. The time has now come to take it to the Islamic terrorist camp by making a Hindu martyr out of Bajrang dal like SIMI is being martyred.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Vikramaditya » 28 Sep 2008 09:05

shiv wrote:
Vikramaditya wrote:
1) If the Bajrang Dal is banned - nobody can whine that "Hindu organizations are not touched" while SIMI is exterminated


That would be a mistake IMHO. By doing so we will subconciusly conceed moral highground to these bozos who dont have any morals. Secondly there is no guarantee that they will stop at that if anything this will make them bold enough to ask for more such sanctions with BJP being the ultimate target. .


And guess where that will lead in India? Civil war.

In fact civil war is what the islamists have started against India. The time has now come to take it to the Islamic terrorist camp by making a Hindu martyr out of Bajrang dal like SIMI is being martyred.


You are not making Bajrang dal a martyr ... what it would end up being is just another morsel thrown at the Croc (Islam) to keep it happy so that it doesnt devour the others ... nothing more nothing less. Time to put our feet down. You will need these Vigillante types in handling the battle at the street level which is where most damage will come about and where it will eventually be decided.

And yes we are in a civil war ... our psec babus just wont acknowledge it why would they ?
Last edited by Vikramaditya on 28 Sep 2008 09:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby CRamS » 28 Sep 2008 09:06

Vikramaditya wrote:
1) If the Bajrang Dal is banned - nobody can whine that "Hindu organizations are not touched" while SIMI is exterminated


That would be a mistake IMHO. By doing so we will subconciusly conceed moral highground to these bozos who dont have any morals. Secondly there is no guarantee that they will stop at that if anything this will make them bold enough to ask for more such sanctions with BJP being the ultimate target.


Exactly. I am not against dealing firmly with the Bajrangi and Shev sena types going after Valentine's day couples and vandalizing Churches, but banning them to appease the Isalmists and Hindu-hating EJs would be the ultimate mistake IMO. Now, if doctor Shiv means a few cosmetic steps against them so that the Indian state can go full throttle against SIMI and other assorted Isalmict scum, I don't have an issue. That would be a good strategy. Somewhat like US showing Arab/Muslim & black faces on US proclaiming "I am an American", and yet bombing the living crap out of Muslim countries they don't like, ruthless action against black criminals, and FBI watching the shadow of every Muslim living in US. But come on, you really think MMS thinks along such strategic nationalist lines? Give me a break. He is more comfortable with the whisky-driking India terror-plotting TSP elite than he is with an average Ram on the streets of Mumbai or the average Krishna on the streets of Hyderabad. He and other anti-national HFLs just want to appease the Islamists and TSP through such a ban and nothing else.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Sanjay M » 28 Sep 2008 09:08

What needs to happen is that more crimes by the Left/Islamists/etc need to be documented (ie. video-recorded) and then broadcasted to the wider public.

There are plenty of excesses going on by these Islamists, Maoists, conversion-missionaries, etc, and nobody is doing the video-journalism required to gather and share the evidence. Therefore, allegations against them look like mere hearsay.

Nationalists are not making use of the tools available(eg. video-blogs), and are instead wallowing in impotent fury.
If there were only more Tehelkas on the Right, then we'd stand a better chance of combatting these crooks.

Look at how strong the US activist community is, even among US conservatives. They are much more active than we are.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby shiv » 28 Sep 2008 09:28

CRamS wrote:a few cosmetic steps against them so that the Indian state can go full throttle against SIMI


Yes of course. That is the idea.

Having said that it may not be constitutionally viable to ban the Bajrang Dal because it would have to be shown that they are pushing an anti national or violent ideology. Unlike SIMI.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Kakkaji » 28 Sep 2008 09:35

Swapan Dasgupta's take. My apologies if already posted:

Not at all in good faith

Swapan Dasgupta

It is the avowed intention of "good politics" to separate the individual from the issue. Unfortunately, despite my best endeavours I have been unable to disentangle Professor Mushirul Hasan, the harried vice-chancellor of Jamia Millia Islamia, from the storm that has engulfed India's Muslims.

Never mind what the more uninformed critics said, Hasan didn't quite fit the stereotype of the pained Muslim who got places by wilfully carrying a monumental chip on his shoulder. His personal faith was always subordinate to his reputation as an accomplished historian and a man of letters. Even as a "Muslim" intellectual he was different from both the radical Marxists and the Islamic conservatives. He was the archetypal Congress Muslim in the best sense of the term: Liberal, Westernised, progressive without being flamboyantly trendy and, predictably, very Nehruvian. Like many true Nehruvians whose convictions were rooted in both aesthetics and class, Hasan probably nurtured a disdain for both the ghetto and the suicide bomber. Like many liberals who now take their cue from the American campuses, he blended a critique of the so-called Bush doctrine with a distaste of the robust nationalism of the Right.

There is, of course, another more practical facet to this man of letters. Over the years, Hasan has become a feature of the intellectual pantheon of a very beleaguered Nehruvian establishment. This has made him more sensitive to political cross-currents and fuelled the belief that the only fight worth fighting these days is against the grand ideological project of the Hindu Right. For Hasan, the hosting of Sahmat exhibition of MF Hussain's prints and the naming of a path in the Jamia campus after HRD Minister Arjun Singh is an aspect of a political grandstanding.

It is this new-found public-spiritedness that has led Hasan to the centre of an extremely unfortunate controversy centred on terrorism. This is not because the controversy has arisen in the first place but because the vice-chancellor has decided to change tack from being a man of letters to becoming the unlikely voice of the qasba.

It is not novel for either students or teachers to be engulfed in issues that have little bearing on the campus. If a student is picked up by the police for, say a credit card fraud or something more violent, it is not incumbent on the part of the institution to play father to the errant child -- although individual teachers can and should play such a role. The principle isn't any different for the two Jamia students held on terrorism-related offences by Delhi Police. The charges are serious and relate to the mass murder of innocent citizens, an armed encounter in which a policeman died and assaults on the sovereignty of India. These, presumably, are offences that are not curriculum-related, unless new-fangled courses on Human Rights now include practicals on bomb-making.

It is conceivable that there are people in the vicinity of the Jamia campus who believe that the students have been unfairly targeted by a vengeful police. It is equally likely that there are others who sympathise with the Indian Mujahedeen's jihad and are piggybacking on the "unfair arrest" theory to create a gulf between Muslims and India. These are political issues that both the Government and civil society have to confront. In offering legal assistance to the arrested from official funds, Hasan wasn't simply upholding the inalienable right of every citizen to get legal assistance -- a right statutorily guaranteed and needs no intervention from Jamia Millia. He was putting the full weight of a public institution behind the accused. In effect, he was equating the institution with those charged with terrorism. The conflict between "town" and "gown" is an intractable problem that has plagued academia. In obliterating the distinction between the mood of neighbouring Jamia Nagar and the aloofness of Jamia Millia Islamia, Hasan has sullied the relationship between an academic institution and the nation. His combative speech to the students on September 24 is a case in point. According to the report in Times of India (which to my knowledge hasn't been contradicted), Hasan urged students to not be defensive about the arrest of two colleagues. "We owe no explanation to anyone except ourselves and to our faith that unambiguously eschews violence." Of course, he added by way of a postscript that "Our commitment is to the rule of law and the Indian Constitution."

What Hasan has purportedly said is preposterous. He has suggested that a publicly funded institution isn't accountable to anyone but the Jamia community and "our faith". I have no theological expertise to pronounce a judgment on whether this faith "unambiguously eschews violence". It is, at best, a contested assertion. It is also not my case that a religious institution cannot exist. But such an institution cannot be run on public funds. The Constitution forbids it. Either Jamia is a Central University or an institution answerable primarily to "our faith". Hasan obviously feels it is the latter.

What this incident tells us is disturbing. It suggests that a traditional liberal like Hasan no longer feels the need to maintain a healthy detachment between a rarefied institution and the radicalisation of Indian Muslims. Ironically, it was a willingness to swim against the tide of community consensus that distinguished an earlier generation of nationalist Muslims such as Maulana Azad and Zakir Hussain from the well-bred Liaquat Ali Khans and Khaliquzzamans. In those days, the choice was between a united India and Pakistan; today, it is between democracy and terrorism. If Hasan makes a wrong choice out of personal choice it is a footnote; it is a commentary on his fickleness. If, however, he is moved by community pressure it is a sure sign that the community is totally out of tune with the rest of India.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby sum » 28 Sep 2008 09:39

A Arun wrote:On NDTV's Big Fight aired saturday, Teesta Setalvad called Swapan Dasgupta a BJP worker. Swapan in turn called Teesta an "over ground worker for the terrorists." :D

Who was the turd from Tehelka(a lady) who went on and on about poor muslims attacked by evil yindoos?

The show ended with this great bimbette declaring that Muslims are in a shocking oppression in India and if she was a muslim, she would have picked up a gun :-? :roll: :x to which all the other panelists disowned it and ended the show...Who was this great lady? I wanted to reach out through the TV and strangle her. These kinds of jihadi sympathisers/OWGs get prime airtime.. :x

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby sum » 28 Sep 2008 09:47

The birth of the next urban legend:
Link
Ban forced SIMI to turn radical
28 Sep 2008, 0443 hrs IST, Ishtiyaque Danish

When Indira Gandhi imposed Emergency in 1975, she banned the Jamat-e-Islami Hind and the RSS to maintain communal balance. Jamat leaders and activists were jailed across the country. Many Jamat activists were poor; many the sole breadwinner. The Jamat had a considerable presence in Aligarh Muslim University. It also had a small but active student wing, whose activities were confined to the university campus. On hearing of the plight of Jamat members, the student wing decided to help them secretly. It was this decision that could really be seen as the beginning of what would later be formalised as the Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI).

I heard about SIMI when I was a student at Jameatul Falah, Belaria Ganj, Azamgarh, a prominent religious seminary. The madrassa was unique in the emphasis it placed on or commentary on the Holy Quran. Its students were encouraged to master classical Arabic, especially that of the pre-Islamic period. This pursuit was considered essential in order to fully grasp the literary excellence and intellectual depth of the Holy Quran. Familiarity with word roots was thought invaluable to explain concepts.

A good example is the word 'Allah', the name of God in Islam. Most Muslims define Allah to mean the 'being' they worship. But Jameatul Falah insisted on its students knowing the word root, which is and means to move to someone with love and affection. Therefore, Allah can be both subject and object. He is the one who reaches out with unbounded compassion. He is the 'being' to whom men go with love and supplication. So too the word, which is derived from a root that means 'to take a thirsty man or animal to the source of water in a desert'. Islamic, therefore, is the law that guides mankind to the right path in the wilderness that is the world. This was how Falah helped us understand and apply Islam to life.

It was at this point that SIMI's message reached us, the young at a Muslim religious school. It helped that SIMI's torchbearers were men who had helped the needy during the dark days of the Emergency. SIMI's message appealed to me and many others.

I was at the Aligarh conference where SIMI was founded. There were about 250 delegates from across India. Among the foreign delegates was Anwar Ibrahim, then president of a Malaysian students' organisation known by its acronym, Abim. Today, Ibrahim, Malaysia's former deputy prime minster, is the main opposition leader.

In SIMI's early phase, we were a group of enthusiastic, sincere, honest people, prepared to sacrifice all we had, and much that we did not. We were required to be model students and exemplary enough to draw others into our way of life. There was no coercion. Our way was to impress others by good moral character and academic excellence. Every SIMI member was required to maintain a self-appraisal diary. It was meant to help character-building. One of the diary's unique features was the encouragement it offered to spending in the way of Allah .

But that was then. My formal association with SIMI ended when I left to study in England in 1985. Nevertheless, I continued to monitor its progress. It is safe to say it has changed. In the early days, SIMI had a near-perfect system of internal democracy, which ensured exhaustive discussion before decisions were made. This meant moderate views ultimately prevailed over the extreme. So too SIMI's early adherence to the ideas of Sayyid Abul Aala Maududi, a scholar-activist who fought for democracy. Maudidi did not believe in violent change. He had a 'hearts-and-minds' approach. Under Maudidi's influence, the Jamat ul-Islami remained a cadre-based organisation with limited mass appeal.

But when Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini brought about the Islamic Revolution, SIMI began to ask if it needed to continue its peaceful evangelism or approach the masses directly.[/b] At the time, the consensus was it remain committed to Maududi's ideology and methodology and yet strive to approach the masses directly. Soon after, SIMI began a phase of public-protest with processions on issues of the day. This annoyed the Jamat leadership. It became a major issue in the early and mid-1980s. Jamat demanded that SIMI become its official students' wing.

But SIMI resolved to remain independent, after long deliberations in Vijaywada in 1982. And yet, it wanted to remain closely associated with the Jamat. The Jamat was not keen and reacted by setting up its own youth wing, the Students Islamic Organisation (SIO). Despite the separation, the Jamat leadership remained in close touch with SIMI, providing it intellectual and religious training and leadership. But this arrangement broke down in the 1990s. Jamat leaders stopped attending SIMI events. Thus ended the sobering influence exercised by the Jamat on SIMI. It paved the way for SIMI's gradual radicalisation.
After the Babri Masjid demolition, SIMI was confronted with an ideological and methodological dilemma. It became more of a radical national party that tried to take an interest in issues relating to Muslims across India rather than the student segment in one fragment of the north.

And yet, the important reality was that SIMI's radicalism still remained verbal. It spoke of but did not start or sustain an armed struggle. All through the 1990s, the SIMI leadership seemed divided between radicals and moderates. Take it from this insider that as late as 2001, when SIMI was banned, moderates were in the majority.

But, even this small radicalism on SIMI's part made its retired leaders and members unhappy. In the mid-1990s, they decided they needed to exercise their influence to keep SIMI moderate. Their efforts went a long way towards strengthening the moderate element but failed to contain the tiny group of radicals. The extremism of this tiny group remained ideological. The Congress government, it would appear, ignored SIMI's radicalism as a fringe nuisance. While it is not clear if this was part of a well-thought-out plan or an ad-hoc, knee-jerk measure, it prevented SIMI's drift towards violence.

When the BJP came to power in the late 1990s, it began to take note of SIMI's radicalism. Between 1999 and 2001, cases were filed against SIMI leaders for delivering inflammatory speeches and disturbing communal harmony. Some of these were patently false charges. The BJP government proscribed SIMI in September 2001 under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act and put its activists behind bars. Almost everyone arrested were out of jail soon enough. Some were out on bail, others acquitted. Many of the trials bordered on mockery. This must have swelled the ranks of SIMI radicals. In jail, many were brutally tortured. I have seen signs of torture on their bodies.

It must be noted that before the ban, no SIMI activist was ever charged with violence or terrorism. It was only after the ban that cases began to be slapped against them. It should also be noted that moderates ceased their association with SIMI after it was banned. The radicals went underground. They are the ones now alleged to be engaged in terrorist activities. :-?

The ban on SIMI only served to accelerate its drift towards extremism. A banned and underground SIMI is dangerous. The possibility of it going the way of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida is real. Had SIMI been allowed to operate overground, extremists may have been contained or neutralised. But with general elections around the corner, our political class cannot be expected to rise above "ban politics". And yet, democratic freedom may be a better leveller than the politics of proscription.

(The author teaches at Hamdard University, New Delhi)


Riiiight....If there was no ban, the SIMI was the model,patriotic organisation...

Wonder how many more such insane new theories will we have to bear , all to maintain the defence of the terrorist scum?
Last edited by sum on 28 Sep 2008 09:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Vikramaditya » 28 Sep 2008 09:49

on the banning Bajrang Dal thingy .... if anything we must learn to play the game just exactly how the Jihadi + Psec front plays it i.e hard and harder ... Take for example Arjun Singh and the Jamia Milia VC openly and shamelessly standing by SIMI operators .... How difficult is it to return favours by standing stoutly behind Bajrang Dal likewise. Anyone complains throw them the appropriate news bytes and they will shut up ( assumption here is that they have some very absolute bare minimum amounts of sharam and logic but that it is becomming haradous to assume that by the hour )

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby gandharva » 28 Sep 2008 09:53

Who was the turd from Tehelka(a lady) who went on and on about poor muslims attacked by evil yindoos?


Harinder BAweja, used to be with India Today. If i am correct there was a female indian journalist notorious for sleeping with Baki consulate officers in Delhi during 90s. I could never worked who she was?. But the way this Baweja asked (during)to Muslims of India to take gun in their hands i have hunch that baweja must be the one.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Zin » 28 Sep 2008 11:25

ashish raval wrote:Zin.. my living in leeds does not make me a lesser Indian in any manner

Dont mistake my questions. They were not intended to question your nationality or patriotism.

ashish raval wrote:A.1 ) How can you claim that jehadi muslims are not thrown into the pond. Most of the rats are behind the bars and prosecuted under law with very solid evidence.

Not true.
One of the pigs is living like a prince in britian with the UK govt funding his expensive lifestyle.
And the money the UK govt provides to muslim groups is being diverted to fund terror activities.

I know both these of incidents are true and have been reported by the british press, right now i cant seem to find the relevant links.

ashish raval wrote:A.2 ) London bombings was done by the people who slipped from surveillence either

You agree about the failure to keep track of jehadi muslims. That is what intelligence failure means.

ashish raval wrote:A.3) UK has recently allowed limited sharia courts (marriage and social cases only) because they dont want to alienate Muslims.

So what happens when two muslim men marry each other.
Correct me if i'm wrong.
british law allows such marriages while sharia says that such men should be thrown from the high building.
So which law is going to be applied here.


ashish raval wrote:Not a single criminal or fraud cases are handled by sharia.

Not true.
Fraud cases are being handled by sharia kangroo courts which now have the legal sanction under british law. Read this.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4749183.ece

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.
Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.


On criminal cases, read this.
Siddiqi said he expected the courts to handle a greater number of “smaller” criminal cases in coming years as more Muslim clients approach them. “All we are doing is regulating community affairs in these cases,” said Siddiqi, chairman of the governing council of the tribunal.


And this is the most horrifying part of this sharia courts.
There are concerns that women who agree to go to tribunal courts are getting worse deals because Islamic law favours men.

Siddiqi said that in a recent inheritance dispute handled by the court in Nuneaton, the estate of a Midlands man was divided between three daughters and two sons.

The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts.

In the six cases of domestic violence, Siddiqi said the judges ordered the husbands to take anger management classes and mentoring from community elders. There was no further punishment.

In each case, the women subsequently withdrew the complaints they had lodged with the police and the police stopped their investigations.

So here you have the sharia courts reducing british women of muslim religion to second class citizens in their own country and the state instead of coming to their aid allows such kangroo courts to function and has enhanced their legal powers.

Next new development in emirate of britian will be theives having their limbs chopped off to comply with sharia law.


ashish raval wrote:Giving this much liberty to largest minority is not a big thing. Every country does it.

So when are the hindu,sikh,buddhist,jain courts going to come up in emirate of britian?

ashish raval wrote:A.4) I have read parts of Koran and did not find it enlightning in any aspect of spirituality, philosophy or enlightenment. So I have stopped reading it.

Read the parts of koran that give specific directions to muslims on how to behave with non-muslims.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby Zin » 28 Sep 2008 11:28

Rye wrote:I agree. Bajrang Dal is expendable though BJPwallahs would have separation pangs.

The "ban Banjang Dal" non-issue is being raised by the fake liberals to draw attention from the real problem.


People still dont understand the meaning of taqiyya.

Now the taqiyyawallas want a ban on bajrang dal, tomorrow they will want a ban on all party that are not secular. And the definition of secular will be propounded by these taqiyyawallas.
The qualifications for being secular are as follows-
1) they have to condemn hinduism,
2) they have believe in AIT which based on assumptions by nazis rather than scientific proof,
3) they have to change their party constitutions to reserve 50% of their party tickets for minorities.
Here minorities means muslims and people of real minority religions like sikhism,jainism,buddhism are kafir religions. So these people are not worth to be called humans according the holy book of peaceful people.
So no reservations for them.


And even if this UPA govt led by INC bans the bajrang dal then it will be a new level of hypocrisy in this country.
UPA has parties like MIM and IUML both fundamentalist muslim party in it's coalition.
IUML is preparing for a jehad in kerala.
While the MIM is the hyderabadi party which in the past fought for the nizam and killed hundreds of hindus in hyd. Remember the razakars?
Now this MIM has created for itself a safe ghetto there. The last time the INC home minister went to visit that place the MIM pigs tried to physically assault and verbally abused him.
And the MIM MLA was behind the attack on taslima nasreen in hyd and wanted her head to be cut for allegedly insulting the prophet moh. No criminal case has been registered against him for physically attacking and calling for murder of taslima. Well this what secularism is all about.
Allow muslims to indulge in criminal and terrorist acts while oppress the other religions and try call any defenders of these religions as fascists.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby sum » 28 Sep 2008 11:36

I agree. Bajrang Dal is expendable though BJPwallahs would have separation pangs.

The "ban Banjang Dal" non-issue is being raised by the fake liberals to draw attention from the real problem.

Please dont count on a mere ban helping in ending the equal-equal...
Once banned , the p-secs will next keep harping about how the banned SIMI is under severe police crackdown and torture but the banned Bajrang is not having similar raids against it though 1000000 Bajrangis have been found making bombs near mosques!!! Its a never ending cycle..There is no legit grievance for all this mayhem being caused and the only option is for the community to introspect rather than creating strawmen. However, going by the reactions of the educated and the "leaders" so far, there is little hope of that.

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Re: Delhi Blasts news and info

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 28 Sep 2008 12:38

In fact the story gives me some cheer, although everything has been done to create confusion in a typically Indian fashion.

1) I am certain that the police got everyone. Nobody escaped
2) The police deliberately did not want to reveal who was killed and who "escaped" because that would mean "dead end" for their controllers.


Right from day one, I have believed that all the terrorists have been taken by the police and this claim of "two terrorists have escaped" is nothing but to sow uncertainity and doubt in the minds of the handlers as well as jholawalas / Hindu Fake Liberals. I am sure both the terrorists are currently hanging upside down from a ceiling in some window-less basement.


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