Indian Response to Terrorism

SaiK
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby SaiK » 04 Dec 2008 01:47

About 30 odd red dots in http://www.kashmir-information.com/Terrorism/terr.gif. That would mean that many shauriya/prithvi missile. We need a conventional strike large explosions.

again, those red dots doesn't mean anything to target coordinates. It needs to be precise camp location, and the activity is current. Else, we are wasting lot of investment that was made to make those missiles.

We could ask american satellites to zero on these dots, and gives us feedbacks on the motions and movements [you see chankyan move here? if coordinates are wrong, the international community knows where it came from (ofcourse I am not a crisis manager like our babooze) ]. Meanwhile, we can also look at our own satellite what we can get.

IAF's own eye in the space onlee be launched by next mid year. We need external data for more precise delivery.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby R_Kumar » 04 Dec 2008 01:50

"Secular" media is again cheating public. They are afraid that public anger will destroy congress so they are putting all the politicians in one basket and asking everyone to kick that basket.
What they want? Army rule? Shouldn't they campaign for public awareness and ask everyone to vote for nationalist candidates.

And these bollywod junks should be stopped for being experts. Where were they when aam aadmi was getting killed? Now their hang out places have been attacked, they are running like headless chickens. All these so called experts just abuse and abuse in front of camera. Shouldn't they bring real security experts?

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby asprinzl » 04 Dec 2008 02:30

In 1996 Russian elections, Clinton Administration sent over to Russia American campaign experts to help Yeltsin win against a very strong communist comeback. Clinton orchestrated similar move to help Ehud Barak's in Israel. Clinton was not comfortable dealing with Bibi.

The reality is that no matter who is in charge in DC, either conservative or liberal, when it comes to foreign policy they are always comfortable dealing with the liberal camps in other countries. So is the case in the current context of US-India tamasha.

The bleeding heart liberals fron the lobbyists to intellectuals to bureaucrats have this misconception about Hindu rightwing and they very much don't look forward to a BJP dominated Indian government. At present Sonia Gandhi and MMS are very vulnerable mostly due to their own folly of apeasement politics.

The firing of CM Deshmuk or HM Patil were moves by the triumvirate to deflect the public backlash away from the triumvirate but the public at large are more than sich and tired of this same old same old. Otherwise, there is a big chance that BJP would make a comeback and high possibility of CM Modi becoming PM.

( I think the Indian public want infussion of new blood thus I am not confident LKA would become PM. But thats beside the point I am trying to make.)

Just the thought of a Modi PM-ship might send shivers down the spines of JNU DIEs and the elites in DC. This is an untenable prospect they would much rather avoid come hell of high water. The Congress Party must be helped. The firing and resignation of a couple of ministers is not going to molify the growing Indian public anger. This angry public must be given their bone. But what can be done?

Thus, I am not surprised that the voices in DC are coming around to the idea of an international sanctioned or even international backed military strikes against terrorist camps in Pakistan is Pakistan poo-poohs Indian demands. I think that was probably the mission of Mr. Menon. He must have presented on the table the potential scenario.

Is that why the American AC battle groups are amassing close by? The next few days or even weeks would tell us more of what's cooking.

___________________________________________________________
On the other hand I am surprised as to how powerful Mrs Sonia Gandhi has become. She is the most powerful person in India and that too without holding any official post. She controls the Prime Minister and every other ministers. She also controls the President's office by having her appointee as President. Basically, she is the de-fecto President of India along the lines of American Presidency. For the gurus on here: Is it constitutional for a non-office holder to control the office of the PM? Could this be construed as usurption of power? This reminds me of the last three Star Wars movies where a Sith finally becomes Emperor. It is not possible for such traversity to take place but it is amazing how one inexperienced woman ended up consolidating so much power in her hands. Wow. Ala Catherine the Great. Dangerous.
___________________________________________________________
I think it is about time all Indian journalists and anchors stop using "gunmen", "militant", "assailant" and start using "jihadi-terrorist" or "Islamic-terrorist". They should also stop parroting western mediots (media idiots) who spout "LET, a Kashmir-based militant outfit". Hey.....it is a Pakistan based Islamic terrorist outfit.
___________________________________________________________
Just wish the MRCA deal was done a few years ago. An extra 120 to 200 modern warplanes in the inventory would come handy instead of the MiG-21s.

Avram

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby lakshmikanth » 04 Dec 2008 02:36

Maybe this is what our poojya pirdhan mantri and Unkil is scared about:

The Army of the clones:

Taliban, Lashkar-e-Taiba Leaders Declare Readiness To Fight India In Event of Indian Military Action in Pakistan

The Taliban’s ceasefire offer has been welcomed by hard-line Pakistani Army officers who oppose the U.S.-led War on Terror. On December 1, 2008, Roznama Jang reported that several key Taliban commanders have offered to support the Pakistani Army in the event of any likely Indian attack on Pakistan. In return, Pakistani Army officials have called the Taliban commanders "Pakistani patriots."


Talibanization of ISI is near complete, and it will be the cause of WWIII.
Last edited by lakshmikanth on 04 Dec 2008 02:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby VRaghav » 04 Dec 2008 02:39

Since terrorism has become synonymous with Pakistan, an Indian response to it should also include all efforts at a personal level, as citizens of India. In the wake of Mumbai terror attacks, all Pakis have been finally exposed to the whole world as pathological liars and insolent supporters of terrorism.

Electronic media is indeed very powerful. From the Pakis trolling in the comments section of editorial/articles in news papers, to the RAPE in Pakistan to the ambassadors and Haqqanis and Lodhis in the international media, all have been revealed as terrorist supporters. All have been caught with blood in their hands and yet they will keep the insolent lying going on.

It's clear that Pakistan is no more a civilization - it has become an anarchy with home to all pathological liars masquerading as 'leaders' and 'elite' and 'non-state actors' as international terrorists. No more can the civilized world consider the Pakis as human beings, leave alone 'friends.'

As Arun Shourie aptly puts to the p-secs, we should stop romancing Pakistan.

We need to mobilize and rally all the civilized people of this world to shun, boycott and ostracize anything Pakistani - be it people, arts, food, business or culture (if any left). We should let the Pakis know the consequences of their vile (in)actions. From Najam Sethi to Ghulam Ali, from Imran Khan to Rahat Fateh Ali Khan, no one should be spared. Pakistan has become so infected that it needs to be quarantined.

Like what was done to the Nazis, let's isolate and squeeze the Pakis until they come crawling to the civilized world.
Last edited by VRaghav on 04 Dec 2008 02:50, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby sanjaykumar » 04 Dec 2008 02:44

Talibanization of ISI is near complete, and it will be the cause of WWIII.

WWIII? How many American bombs will it take to make Pakistan sit on its tail? One?

What is it in Pakistan that merits WWIII? Pathans aren't safe in Karachi, Punjabis are lynched in Baluchistan and this nation of heroes is going to fight the world. How long do you think it will take Europe to borrow from its illustrious son, and fire up the gas chambers as a final solution. The Pakistans are despised even in Norway, you think Germany is going to show restraint?

The rest of the world is not InDia. For WWIII, you need allies. What are Pakistan's allies? The IMF?

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby RajeshA » 04 Dec 2008 03:26

milindc wrote:
RajeshA wrote:The UN Resolution is needed for sanctioning a long-term terrorist busting program in Pakistan by regional countries or anybody else who wants to have some fun.

So yes, it would be a great thing!

RajeshA,
I guarantee you that only stakeholders who will go to UN are folks that want to maintain status quo..
If GoI approaches UN, rest assured that these are first order traitors to Indian cause. If any Indian leader or person states about approaching UN, mark and tag him, he is on Paki payroll.
Only entity that gets benefited by UN meddling at this Juncture is Shit-stan.


The reason I favor a UN Resolution is simply because I have little faith in the present setup in Delhi to do anything much spectacular than this. If we go on a military offensive in whatever form, then I would be quite happy. As I do not expect that, I hope that this government can at least realize a proper UN Resolution.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby NRao » 04 Dec 2008 03:40

Avram,

The more I think about what has happened WRT GoI, it seems to me that everything said and done are pretty much to keep the Indian people quite. There has been no movement AT ALL from Pakistan. And, outside of Mumbai there does not seem to be any/much noise to force the issue with SG.

On:

WWIII? How many American bombs will it take to make Pakistan sit on its tail? One?


The idea to Islamise the subcontinent does not end with Pakistan. Point being that there are governments outside Pakistan that are watching and cheering these events. Islamic terrorist is ONLY for the non-Muslim states.

As an aside: IF and when they do they will never call Uncle to find out if they are doing it the right way. Meanwhile, India does have a non-state-actor option: declare an emergency. But, I can bet that this will not be considered a "fitting reply", in fact it would be deemed an unfit action, not even a reply.



BTW, for the first time, yesterday, I heard an American "expert" state on CNN that the Islamists want to take over the entire subcontinent.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby ChandraS » 04 Dec 2008 03:44

vsudhir wrote:

Aaj, dept chief caught me in the cafeteria and mentioned - 'Abt that Mumbai thing, how terrible! Were your people all safe in Mumbai? How far is it from your place? etc.' Was nice of her to ask, IMO. I made it a point to say we'll bounce back and that we are vulnerable because 'they' are right next door to us. Chief was nodding away vigorously like she understood perfectly what moi was saying. Bottomline - word is getting around to even aam joe n jane in massaland that Pakistan is bad news. Gauhar khan might find that funny perhaps, and can laugh away at that for all I care.


Yes this is pretty much the case at my workplace also. A lot of folks are asking about the situation esp since 2 of us here are from Mumbai. Many are pretty much zero wrt to the Indo-Pak past events. I had to give them a brief background and how the current events sort of ties in. IMHO, this is a good time to shape their views and opinions of the aam janta in massa. Don't know how much impact it will have, but definitely a start.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby animesharma » 04 Dec 2008 03:51

Gagan wrote:Here you go Neelkamal

Terror camps in Pakistan.
http://www.kashmir-information.com/Terrorism/terr.gif

Are these Permanent training Centers or Possible terrorist mecca?

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby animesharma » 04 Dec 2008 03:51

Dawood sitting pretty in Karachi
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Dawo ... 789890.cms
Even as India seeks Dawood Ibrahim's extradition yet again, the don is ensconced safely in his plush bungalow in Karachi.
Security agency sources told TOI on Wednesday that it's business as usual for the underworld kingpin. A few days ago, a couple of his relatives, including Salim Ansari, flew to Pakistan (using their valid Indian passports) to meet him. Sources said the don was so confident that he would not be touched by the Pakistani establishment that he had made no changes in his daily routine.

He continues to phone his contacts in Mumbai. Recently, a contact who fronts for him in the real estate business reportedly sent Rs 120 crore via hawala, sources in the government stated. The hawala channel between Mumbai and Karachi remains busy.

Indian security agencies are keeping close tabs on Dawood's movements, as are their counterparts in the US intelligence establishment. It's on the basis of detailed inputs from them that India maintains that Dawood Ibrahim is in Pakistan. But central agencies question why the Maharashtra government has not taken any action against the D-company here.

"What's the point of asking Islamabad to hand over Dawood when we're not doing anything to destroy his empire in Mumbai and other places in India?" a senior official asked.

Mohammed Ali, who holds sway in the docks and is a key member of the Dawood Ibrahim network, continues to operate with impunity. Even after the November 26 terror attacks, his smuggling racket remains unchecked. Despite strong indications that it provided logistical assistance to the attackers, the police insist there was no local support. At the same time, they do not rule out Dawood Ibrahim's involvement.

Meanwhile, security agencies are hoping the US will move on Lashkar-e-Taiba leaders, including Abu Hamza and Hafeez Syed. An email sent to a TV channel was traced to an LeT hideout near Muridke in Pakistan's Punjab province. The phone intercepts of the LeT terrorists who executed the Mumbai massacre also reveal their links to Pakistan and Bangladesh.



As asked by the security official, what's the point of begging USA when our own impotent ministers don't have the balls to flush out D-company from mumbai. UPA tried to run from its responsibility by sacking Maha CM, but what good it will do? It wasn't Maha CM who was aiding terrorists. It is the Politicians-Criminal nexus which is responsible.
The Gov should think about rebirth of ATS as it was in its glory days. And Gandhi worshiping netas should shed away the policy of saving an innocent at the cost of hundreds of criminals.

IMO, the greatest threat to India is not pakistan nor China and not even this system. its these Politicians. They deserve to be shot at point blank Rather than Innocent lives who were helping in economic growth.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby ramana » 04 Dec 2008 03:58

To do that you need to get Pawar. I realised on the night that Patil was forced to resign (he had no intention per his own statements) Pawar come on TimesNow TV and was mumbling about how he felt it would be good etc. I then figured he was the master of the underworld of Mumbai. This guy controls everything- the goons, the gambling, the smuggling, and the cricket fixing in Mumbai. They all happen with his support. He is the Sarkar not all those fools who cast big shadows.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby animesharma » 04 Dec 2008 04:03

The firing of CM Deshmuk or HM Patil were moves by the triumvirate to deflect the public backlash away from the triumvirate but the public at large are more than sich and tired of this same old same old. Otherwise, there is a big chance that BJP would make a comeback and high possibility of CM Modi becoming PM.


This is almost for sure that BJP will win General election next year. the only point left in doubt is if they will be able to form Government on their own or in JV.
Its unfortunate that Cong had to encounter such massive terror strike at the end of their term. one more terror strike before election and a whitewash for congress.

It will be best for India to have Modi as a CM, but that will be at cost of senior members of BJP. None in BJP has the charisma of Modi and hence BJP as a whole doesn't have the character to think for country before itself. I will shed all my doubts against BJP if Advani steps down and gives way for Modi, till then BJP is in same basket with Cong,CPM and other traitors.

(Beside: Any news of delhi election results? I am expecting a Trailer there)

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby amdavadi » 04 Dec 2008 04:08

pawar has huge lobby to support him..He controls money flow when election comes around.


off topic: ramana sir, i am still a trainee so i cant send pm....

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Neela » 04 Dec 2008 04:09

ramana wrote:To do that you need to get Pawar. I realised on the night that Patil was forced to resign (he had no intention per his own statements) Pawar come on TimesNow TV and was mumbling about how he felt it would be good etc. I then figured he was the master of the underworld of Mumbai. This guy controls everything- the goons, the gambling, the smuggling, and the cricket fixing in Mumbai. They all happen with his support. He is the Sarkar not all those fools who cast big shadows.


Ramana,
Read this,
The wealth of Sharad Pawar
http://www.covert.co.in/150508/sharad.htm
Without a powerful backing, this would not have been possible.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby animesharma » 04 Dec 2008 04:10

It's clear that Pakistan is no more a civilization - it has become an anarchy with home to all pathological liars masquerading as 'leaders' and 'elite' and 'non-state actors' as international terrorists. No more can the civilized world consider the Pakis as human beings, leave alone 'friends.'

May i add an alternate definition.
Pakistan: A pseudo democratic nation, Run by Terrorists in uniform.(political definition)
: an abuse (Universal definition)

The reason I favor a UN Resolution is simply because I have little faith in the present setup in Delhi to do anything much spectacular than this. If we go on a military offensive in whatever form, then I would be quite happy. As I do not expect that, I hope that this government can at least realize a proper UN Resolution.

What good it will do? the world is no more Govern by UN Laws.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby vsudhir » 04 Dec 2008 04:16

I hope GoI conveyed to Rice Indian objections to the repeated bailouts of TSP.

Hope they have managed to insert some more strings/poison pills into the current IMF bailout.

And yes, there's simply no way any country, I mean ANY country can sell arms to TSP and then have any hope in hell of selling arms to GoI. Period. End of story. MoD shall blacklist said country for arms purchases and downgrade diplo relations with it a notch. Why? GoI states, repeatedly and clearly, that those arms are being used by terrorists in uniform to kill Indian civilians in a proxy war fought under a haze of plausible deniability. GoI views providing aid and comfort to TSPA as == hurting India directly.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby ramana » 04 Dec 2008 04:24

amdavadi wrote:pawar has huge lobby to support him..He controls money flow when election comes around.


off topic: ramana sir, i am still a trainee so i cant send pm....



Send me an e-mail at ramana underscore 56 at yahoo dot com

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Gerard » 04 Dec 2008 04:29


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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Cybaru » 04 Dec 2008 04:32

ramana wrote:Yes but India cannot react. read the whole report. The poor TOIlet reporter thinks sauce for goose is sauce for gander. And is thus giving false hope to Indians.

I think India should let the US know they are going in.


Why announce at all. Let them hear when pakis complain. We hold conference with paki ambassador and say it was tacit approval from Islamabad. Its our problem, we need to take care of it.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby animesharma » 04 Dec 2008 04:38

Special treatment of India creates dilemma
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 282646.ece

Condoleezza Rice's arrival in Delhi yesterday was a sign of the Bush Administration's determined courtship of India. The Secretary of State's attentions, in the last six weeks of her job, may have helped to cool tempers.

But it wasn't going to be a very useful visit. It highlights the uncomfortable choices that the Bush Administration has made in its relations with India, which surrendered much of the US's influence for little advantage. Barack Obama's comments on Kashmir suggest that this legacy will sit awkwardly with his own intentions.

Rice herself, in March 2006, set out the principles of the Bush team's approach to India. They deliberately, and rightly, continued President Clinton's policy of trying to rebuild relations after years of frost when India was close to the Soviet Union. In a newspaper opinion piece she praised the “partnership between the world's oldest and the world's largest democracy”. She added that: “As the nations of Asia continue their dramatic rise in a rapidly changing region, a thriving, democratic India will be a pillar of Asia's progress”.

The language of democracy promotion seems almost antique now, with the passing of the Administration that made that rhetoric so much its own. Yet the principle was right, and the move was well timed. Clinton, paralysed within the US in his last year by the Monica Lewinsky investigation, took refuge abroad and was quick to spot India's rise and embrace it as a new ally. This is one of the few Clinton policies which the Bush team took on and improved.
That was all to the good, but the nuclear co-operation deal that followed was not. The US leaned over backwards to grant India help, demanding few concessions.

The effect was to compromise the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty by seeming to reward India despite its refusal to join, and despite its development of nuclear weapons. Even more uncomfortably — the Bush Administration leaned on members of the Nuclear Suppliers Group to treat India as a special case deserving access to nuclear technology.

The US position has been that India is an exception that brooks no comparison with Iran, North Korea and other proliferation threats. But Obama has already said that the first problems facing Hillary Clinton as his secretary of state include North Korea and Iran. He also said in October that the stand-off between Pakistan and India over Kashmir deserves “serious diplomatic resources” and he has talked of sending a special envoy.

India, which has always talked of Kashmir as a purely bilateral dispute, has always resisted such an approach. India is right to call for US pressure on Pakistan to establish the terrorists' links. But it would be wrong to ask for exceptions to continue to be made in areas that could benefit from impartial US attention.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby lakshmikanth » 04 Dec 2008 04:39

when the $hit hits the fan:

Andhra blast suspect shoots at cops

Our local pandus went asking for name and stood 3 feet away (most probably unarmed) from the terrorist and the terrorist did what the terrosists usually do..... WTF were they thinking!!!!! If this is the level of awareness among the local police then I fear for every indian out there.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby animesharma » 04 Dec 2008 04:42

Rice: Intelligence sharing needed between India and Pakistan
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- ... 452633.htm


Does she means feedback from RAW to ISI of its activities? Nice going :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Rahul Shukla » 04 Dec 2008 04:50


“Any ambiguity in our approach or weakening of our resolve will only send out a signal to terrorists that we are not serious about taking our fight with them to the logical end,” Mr. Mukherjee said.

Irony, thy name is GOI.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby ramana » 04 Dec 2008 04:55

That news about potential hijackings of planes is very interesting and relevant to the demands to TSP.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby brihaspati » 04 Dec 2008 05:14

I would expect
(1) Pakistan to have started moving loyal to the government remaining troops to the eastern and southern sector. This could have started long before the Mumbai attacks, and perhaps with full knowledge of the attacks. This helps the GOP to find an excuse for finally abandoning the sham fight it is supposed to be waging in the tribal belt against Qaeda-Taleban. Also the longer the Pakistani army remains there, more will be desertions and collaboration from the lower levels which are recruited from newer generations growing up under GOP sponsored brainwashing madrassahs.
(2)A highly expected calculation by the army was to invite Indian military response and then at one go satisfy several objectives - (a) unify Pakistani society behind the establishment (b) put the elected GOP faction under tremendous pressure and virtually let itself be dominated by the army (c) using (a)+(b) to carry forward the Jihadi agenda which the theologian+secret service nexus probably already has chalked out to take Pakistan further towards an ultra-orthodox Talebani Jihadi state able to extract support from Saudis, Iran, China.
(3) The theologian+secret service nexus has dreamed that once they can subjugate India under Islam, they can remove US influence, bring the opportunist Afghan warlords in line, and gobble up the weak and basically pacifist non-Muslim societies of Myanmar, Thailand to form one continuos chain of Islamic regimes in a neo-Caliphate stretching from Africa to Indonesia.
(4) The month of Dhul Quadah was used to attack Mumbai so ferociously and target Israelis was because of Islamic historical significance of notorious Jew-liquidation campaigns by the prophet of Islam and show of strength to his opponents at Mecca in this "sacred month". The genocide of the Banu Quraizah Jews by the Muslims in this context came immediately after the battle of the "trench" in which the leader of Islam was almost killed and was only saved by "falling into a ditch" and another Muslim resembling him becoming the centre of wrath of the enemy and being killed in error. This could be a message to the remaining terror modules and community support networks of Jihad within India to the effect that recent advances and attacks by the NATO forces with eleimination of key commanders, is like the temporary setbacks of the "battle of the trench" and that the "faithful" should take this as the signal for the final campaign - to eliminate all "tribes" (read India, Israel etc) allied to the "Meccan Qureysh" (read Americans) before "conquering Mecca" (read USA).
(5) This is all due to the Islamists falling to the propaganda by the Thaparite school of Indian history, the Indian regimes' consistent weakness for anything Islamic, that Indians "welcomed" or proved "weak" before historic Jihad. Their miscalculation is based on the complete erasure of the long, persistent and bitter military struggle that slowed down the Islamic advance and brought successive regimes of Muslims to their knees from public discourse in India.
(6) I would expect a grassroots swing towards the "right" which will take on an extreme-right stance if the existing political parties fail to tag along, and such a movement will be extremely harsh and ruthless in liquidating everything Islamic on the subcontinent. To prevent this being taken out upon the "common" Muslim, it is necessary for them to liquidate their theologians and Jihadis themselves and declare the Jihadi passages in their "sacred texts" as anti-Islamic (and not just un-Islamic) inviting the violent capital punishments sanctioned in Islam. Otherwise, they can expect to be wiped off altogether.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby John Snow » 04 Dec 2008 05:16

It is D+ 7
The Amber ( :mrgreen: ) smoulder of Bombay dying is soon going to end and the great balls of (gun)fire is long distant sound and fury.
Its another day for the people of Mumbai who go about their business manly and lonely. Enough candle kissing, brim stone & fire speeches have been made, but yet there is no sign of Balls of fury flying in Delhi.

Its again the same atmosphere in Delhi filled with attitude of high & mighty royalty who preside on the destiny of Billion from the Rajpath . The Kitchen cabinet can hardly cook any convincing dish well assembled at Raj mata's haveli.
There is unison in cry for once, those in power and out are saying Balls we care, if this mayhem is from state or non state actors. Is there any one to act on behalf of citizens of Secular Republic of India? It sure looks like the cry of the victim hit in his groin but the cry for justice wouldnt go past the vocal chords, much to the amusement and encouragement of the terror sponsorers.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby vera_k » 04 Dec 2008 05:22

RajeshA wrote:I still haven't seen our own (UPA's) car as yet.


Exactly, and that is why going to the UN is a pointless distraction.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby RajeshA » 04 Dec 2008 05:33

vera_k wrote:
RajeshA wrote:I still haven't seen our own (UPA's) car as yet.


Exactly, and that is why going to the UN is a pointless distraction.


No, because this will allow a future BJP Government to buy a car on easy installments.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby vera_k » 04 Dec 2008 05:38

RajeshA wrote:No, because this will allow a future BJP Government to buy a car on easy installments.


Who says we don't have 100 cars already?

Besides going to the UN is against long standing policy per Shimla agreement.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby SaiK » 04 Dec 2008 05:41

India is right to call for US pressure on Pakistan to establish the terrorists' links. But it would be wrong to ask for exceptions to continue to be made in areas that could benefit from impartial US attention.


So what would partial then? while allowing India to strike pakistan, aid pakistan with the required weapons to defend India.

Good job!~ go jump into the cold pacific ocean man!, perhaps take those terrorists along with you.

svinayak
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby svinayak » 04 Dec 2008 05:46

SaiK wrote:
India is right to call for US pressure on Pakistan to establish the terrorists' links. But it would be wrong to ask for exceptions to continue to be made in areas that could benefit from impartial US attention.


So what would partial then? while allowing India to strike pakistan, aid pakistan with the required weapons to defend India.

Good job!~ go jump into the cold pacific ocean man!, perhaps take those terrorists along with you.

This is the false image they have kept about Pakistan and India for the last 40 years.

So all the arms and support goes to Pakistan for the last 40 years and then now
they say that India is getting special favour.

SaiK
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby SaiK » 04 Dec 2008 05:51

India does not need any special favor.. if they can stop providing arms to pakistan and abetting terrorism. Who would care if two european countries are militarily strong, but still friendly.

Pakistan is a terrible terror dragon. None of these inglick chuthias understand that. Perhaps, a bad marketing from ourselves that made him to say.. I wonder if he really understand the domain here?

He must be a joker else.

ssmitra
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby ssmitra » 04 Dec 2008 06:34

RajeshA wrote:
vera_k wrote:
RajeshA wrote:I still haven't seen our own (UPA's) car as yet.


Exactly, and that is why going to the UN is a pointless distraction.


No, because this will allow a future BJP Government to buy a car on easy installments.


but what will a BJP govt do, another Op parakram.. Some more soldiers killed

another Akhand fart with no dump

----------------

what we need is the people to rise and force whichever govt is in power to take decisive action.

ldev
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby ldev » 04 Dec 2008 07:11

The bleeding heart liberals fron the lobbyists to intellectuals to bureaucrats have this misconception about Hindu rightwing and they very much don't look forward to a BJP dominated Indian government. At present Sonia Gandhi and MMS are very vulnerable mostly due to their own folly of apeasement politics.

The firing of CM Deshmuk or HM Patil were moves by the triumvirate to deflect the public backlash away from the triumvirate but the public at large are more than sich and tired of this same old same old. Otherwise, there is a big chance that BJP would make a comeback and high possibility of CM Modi becoming PM.

( I think the Indian public want infussion of new blood thus I am not confident LKA would become PM. But thats beside the point I am trying to make.)

Just the thought of a Modi PM-ship might send shivers down the spines of JNU DIEs and the elites in DC. This is an untenable prospect they would much rather avoid come hell of high water. The Congress Party must be helped. The firing and resignation of a couple of ministers is not going to molify the growing Indian public anger. This angry public must be given their bone. But what can be done?


Avram,

My experience is that what wins elections in India are economic issues e.g. when inflation is out of control the party in power faces an uphill battle, little issues such as the price of potatoes, sugar, edible oil etc. That is the reason why the BJP lost the last elections, nothing to do IMO with the attacks on Parliament which were responded to with a 6 month mobilization of Indian troops to the border by that government and then beyond sabre rattling there really was no response.

However, in a closely fought election, the non response of an incumbent government could make a difference. IMO it will be very interesting for one of Indian news channels to do a all India poll right now on the prospects for each political party should the Lok Sabha elections be held right now.

You have to also remember that most small towns and rural areas just do not feel emotionally connected to big cities such as Mumbai. Mumbai's problems are Mumbai's problems as per the thinking of most small town Indians. Central governments in Delhi have always taken Mumbai for granted in terms of the tax revenue it provides without caring overly about its infrastructure unlike New Delhi which is lavished with all kinds of goodies because the politicos live there.

So I dont think that this attack is going to make a huge difference in terms of the next elections. Public memory in India is short. 3 months from now, this attack will be a distant memory for most Indians other than people from Mumbai and those directly impacted by these events the daily struggle of life will take over. In any event, how many Lok Sabha seats does Mumbai send to the Indian Parliament? Callous though this may sound, that is how these policial calculations are done. What you see on television in terms of people lighting candles and shouting a few slogans are the Mumbai elite who have more in common with the West than the vast majority of Indians who send those Members of Parliament to the Lok Sabha.

Muppalla
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Muppalla » 04 Dec 2008 07:15

All the page -3 types, businessmen who are interviewed during the Mumbai protestors blames the politicians except Gandhi family members. These high profile protestors who called "war on terror" on TV are scared of their own dandha and scared to take panga with Gandhi family.

Nothing is going to happen and India democracy will just work the way it working until a visionary leadership emerges. The emotion on this event will dry up beyond Mumbai and people will vote on local and other issues.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Sanjay » 04 Dec 2008 07:23

In light of the views expressed by the British windbags in the Times to the effect that the mediation is needed in Kashmir and India has been treated too gently, perhaps it is time that we express our solidarity with the oppressed Scottish and Welsh minorities of the artificial creation that is the United Kingdom. After all, if the J&K assembly with more powers than the Scottish Parliament isn't democratic enough, the case can be made that the central government in the UK is politically oppressing the Scots and the Welsh who had to beg for local representation. We need to prepare a case for the United Nations demanding the recognition of Scotland and Wales as independent country and promising all "moral and politicial support (a la Islamabad)" for their independence.

For the rest of you: India's people will vote on national issues the day they don't have to worry about malnutrition, health care, education, sanitation and water.

It is time for Indian citizens, NGOs and the corporate sector to launch a coordinated effort to alleviate these problems. Gandhi's vision of self-sufficient villages was the right one for a prosperous India.

It can be done without the state and the politicians will lose some of their power.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby A_Gupta » 04 Dec 2008 08:27

Thinking about it, I now believe that calling the attacks in Mumbai "acts of terrorism" has been a big mistake. We get into the endless debate of should we get into a war? isn't war more horrible? joint investigation with Pakistan, and other such incoherent crap. By treating the attacks as some kind of crime that has to be investigated, we have further confused issues.

I don't want to say that there aren't acts of terrorism in India, but Mumbai attacks don't fall in that category. They were acts of war. When someone declares war on you, you either fight or surrender. I don't think doing nothing is an option (which is what made the "The Mouse that Roared" such a funny movie.)

Let's put it this way. If Musharraf, Qiyani, or Dawood, LeT Saeed, etc., can be brought to trial in a court of law, then it is an act of terror. If they enjoy sovereign protection of the state of Pakistan, then it is an act of war.

chakkunny
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby chakkunny » 04 Dec 2008 08:37

BR Productions - Kaun Banega Obama?

Rakshaks,

It is apparent to almost everyone on this site that unless and until India gets a radically different leadership things will obstinately remain the same. At the same time, I have not seen any proposal as to how this key change can be bought about. Sure one can appeal to the like minded people or evangelize (or whine) the next time this topic comes up for discussion. Every suggested response that was cited is ENTIRELY dependent on whether or not the people at the helm of affairs find it in their interest to do things differently.

After some thought, I have decided to pop a proposal that I believe is implementable.

Premises:
a. Indians watch a lot of TV.
b. Reality/Competition shows are somewhat popular among Indian audiences
c. Biggest obstacles for deserving people to enter politics are as follows:
i. Money to sustain themselves and their campaigns until they make a name for themselves
ii. Vulnerable to goondagiri from the scum who currently hold power
iii. Do not know or will not play dirty
iv. Cannot get media coverage as they are not inclined to throwing rocks or agitating in public, preferring to be problem solvers and not rabble rousers
d. Mumbai is a media production powerhouse and the capital of show biz


Proposal:
a. Find a producer who can produce a reality show for wannabe politicians
b. Producer finds a panel who are not politicians and are considered to be honest, well respected, accomplished in their respective fields.
c. Public is invited to mark themselves as candidates
d. Candidates are subject to intense grilling by panel, with each episode focusing on controversial topics and current affairs of the day
e. Pre season is for vetting candidates from say a 100 to maybe 10. The 10 are vetted by the panel.
f. When season begins, the public call in their favorite candidates.
g. After half the season, the candidates get eliminated one per episode
h. Season is timed to conclude 2-3 months before elections.
i. The winner takes home ENOUGH money to fund (as per CEC regulations) 20 - 30 seats in a parliamentary election which he/she can spend for campaigning in the next election - while being subject to oversight from the panel.

The hope is that:
a. The show will get decent numbers given the large prize money and the hot topics on debate.
b. Winning candidate gets enormous positive news coverage.
c. Politics will get a real new face - perhaps for the first time after so many decades
d. India will get a new leader, who represents hope for real change.

PS. Although I am a fan of Obama as a person, I do not agree with all his priorities and positions. However he does represent an outsider who made it big on the sheer power of his charisma, oratory, and positivity he brings about.

Now does anyone on BR know a producer in Mumbai ?

neelkamal
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby neelkamal » 04 Dec 2008 08:50

thanks for posting the image Gagan!

not able to get any names of cities in POK. will keep trying....


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