Indian Response to Terrorism

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 12 Dec 2008 13:04

PakistaniDefenceFools.com Is Going Through Schedule Upgrades. Forum will be down for next 24-36 hours starting Dec 11th, 2008 We apologize for any increase in World IQ during this interval.

Web Master & PD/PDF idiot Team

upgrade or handing over ceremony?

KSubramanian · Post by **KSubramanian** » 12 Dec 2008 13:18

it(war) is not the solution

I believe that the best response to this should be to send a couple of Rambhas over and drop decoy bombs onlee on ISI-HQ and TSPA-HQ or the terrorist camps still operating at least. No crossing of red lines - invasion of airspace onlee.

You could also send decoy bombs on the prithvi or agni-1 on FATA otherwise. you see, we are trying to help TSPA onlee.

Yash · Post by **Yash** » 12 Dec 2008 13:37

Nesoj wrote:DON'T MISS !!!!!!

The Tricolour is flying proudly on PDF - Time for a screenshot

http://pakistanidefenceforum.com/

AWESOME! My kudos to whomever hacked in this beauty

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 12 Dec 2008 14:54

My congrats to whomsoever hacked the pukeland forum.

You have done more to avenge the 26/11 than all the politicians, media, intellectuals, secularists, and other professional criminals have done till date.

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Dec 2008 15:02

Speaking of responses, the Russian response is given below(from wiki):

In October 1985, Alfa was dispatched to Beirut, Lebanon, when four Soviet diplomats had been taken hostage by militant Sunni Muslims. By the time Alfa was onsite, one of the hostages had already been killed. The perpetrators and their relatives were identified by supporting KGB operatives, and the latter were taken hostage. Following the standard policy of 'no negotiation', Alfa proceeded to sever some of their hostages' body parts and sent them to the perpetrators with a warning that more would follow if the Russian hostages were not released immediately. The tactic was a success and no other Russian national was taken hostage in the Middle East for the next 20 years,[2] until the 2006 abduction of Russian diplomats in Iraq.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 12 Dec 2008 16:25

Whoever hacked the porki site, I'll buy you the most expensive champagne available in India & treat you in the most expensive 5 star restaurant in Delhi. Kudos!!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Dec 2008 17:49

Ha!Ha!Great work.Should be followed up with a massive disinformation campaign too.

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 12 Dec 2008 17:50

Whoever hacked porki dingdong forum, we may never know...but still a big congratulations for the patriot in disguise.
he did a really good job. Its almost 4-5 hrs of action, and the webmaster of PDF is yet to correct it.....

way to go Indian snakes

vdutta · Post by **vdutta** » 12 Dec 2008 17:53

While pukes were choking on pork chops... some Yindoo took care of their mess.. just for records i will post it here...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Dec 2008 17:55

You can expect Pakis to return the favor on here.

vdutta · Post by **vdutta** » 12 Dec 2008 17:58

on the second thoughts i think their site is not hacked...
they are just practicing and getting used to of their original flag...

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 12 Dec 2008 17:59

To, BR ADMIN, are we prepared.
I don't recall any history on BR, but still...

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 12 Dec 2008 18:45

This should happen more often. India has more whizkids in IT than any other country in the world, why don't they do their target practice on porki websites like these?!

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 12 Dec 2008 18:48

Don't know if this is related to Mumbai terror attacks

From TOI - British PM Gordon Brown to visit India on Sunday (1859hrs)

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 12 Dec 2008 18:53

I think Baki unmentionable forum is back with .info name. Quick. On pigs being rounded up in Brussels.........it is high time Belgian police get this. There is a Kashmir center in city center where bunch of gigolos stand out side and ask to come-in for chai coffe. They have 5 star living facilities and they have suspicious visitors in dark glasses with big cars. Belgian can not to pretend to be "bapu ke teen babder" any more.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Dec 2008 19:09

Hacking is not a big deal folks. Not worth the waste of bandwidth.

Back to the topic.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Dec 2008 19:25

What's up with Tharoor? Seems to making headlines in the recent past.

Terrorists have acquired powerful enemies: Tharoor

New Delhi, Dec 11 (PTI) The killing of foreign nationals in the Mumbai terror attacks might have given international publicity to terrorists, but in the process they have "acquired" a large number of "powerful enemies", a former UN official has said. "These people do not forgive. They do not absorb the shocks like us...The terrorists have acquired a large number of powerful enemies by killing foreigners," eminent author and former UN official Shashi Tharoor said here during a talk on 'Terrorism: Mumbai and After' organised for Members of Parliament.

He said so far India was alone in its war against terror. But after the attacks, India has managed sincere allies in the US, UK and Israel, Tharoor said.

"The terrorists went a little far this time by targetting foreigners...The al Qaeda often refers Westerners and Isrealis as Crusaders and Jews. Now the terror camps in Pakistan are not the problem of India alone," he added.

He said a full scale war with Pakistan was not a good idea as "there is no guarantee of a political outcome even after sacrificing lives of soldiers," he said.

"There are forces in Pakistan which are against hardliners and favour democracy. In case of a war, the hardliners and such forces will unite," he said.

He claimed that certain officials in the Pakistani military establishment were against peace with India as it would jeopardise the huge defence budget they get to spend. PTI

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 12 Dec 2008 19:26

We keep talking about their redline, what about our redline?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Dec 2008 19:27

Prime Minister apologises for Mumbai terror attack

The right noises to keep the people quite.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Dec 2008 19:30

Rice deputy in Delhi to hold talks on Mumbai attack

US Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte arrived in New Delhi on Friday on a daylong visit to firm up counter-terror cooperation and to persuade India to exercise restraint in dealing with its neighbour Pakistan, officials said.

During his visit, a day after Pakistan banned the Jamat-ud-Dawah (JuD), a front organisation for the Laskhar-e-Taiba suspected of masterminding Mumbai attacks, Negroponte will hold talks with External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee.

He will brief the minister on his talks with top Pakistani leaders in Islamabad on Thursday and share Washington's perception of Pakistan's reported crackdown on terrorist outfits in that country.

He is also expected to call on Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

In his talks with Negroponte, Mukherjee is likely to convey India's exasperation with “token action” taken by Pakistan against terror outfits in that country and seek the US' support to pressure Islamabad into taking genuine steps to dismantle terrorist infrastructure in that country, reliable sources said.

Negroponte comes here 10 days after US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice visited New Delhi and asked Islamabad to take action against “non-state actors”, saying Pakistan must cooperate “urgently and transparently” with India in the probe into the Mumbai terror attacks.

Indian security agencies have collected more evidence since Rice's visit and are now zeroing in on the list of “ISI handlers” of the perpetrators of the Mumbai terror strikes. New Delhi is likely to share additional evidence with Washington when Indian officials meet Negroponte, sources said.

According to The Dawn newspaper, Negroponte had shared a list with his Pakistani interlocutors, that contains names of lesser-known groups like the Pasban Ahle-e-Hadith against whom Washington wants Islamabad to take action.

The US diplomat has asked Islamabad to continue action against the LeT and to expand the scope of the operations to other "groups that may be linked with subversive activities in India", the Pakistani daily reported.

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Dec 2008 19:32

The killing of foreign nationals in the Mumbai terror attacks might have given international publicity to terrorists, but in the process they have "acquired" a large number of "powerful enemies", a former UN official has said. "These people do not forgive. They do not absorb the shocks like us...The terrorists have acquired a large number of powerful enemies by killing foreigners," eminent author and former UN official Shashi Tharoor said here during a talk on 'Terrorism: Mumbai and After' organised for Members of Parliament.

Has he got a whiff of some action brewing in the Israeli camp?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Dec 2008 19:36

Tamang wrote:We keep talking about their redline, what about our redline?

Our redline is simple.

We find out their redline and stay just short of it. If, tomorrow their redline is to hit us when we criticise them We will stop criticising.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 12 Dec 2008 19:52

Has he got a whiff of some action brewing?

Depends on where his nose has been recently, doesn't it?

(sorry! don't post any interpretations or amplifications of that... )
Just pointing out a technical conditionality for the sake of terminological exactitude.

Nesoj · Post by **Nesoj** » 12 Dec 2008 20:01

NRao wrote:Hacking is not a big deal folks. Not worth the waste of bandwidth.

Back to the topic.

Sir, with due respect, this is the first case of pro-active, affirmative action that I have noticed against Pakistan or their agents in response to the Mumbai massacres

We are on page 47 or the discussion. ALL that is discussed, (nuke them, limited strike, blockade, sop their waters etc etc) is a waste as the GOI is incapable of doing anything except to stand behind 'uncle' and 'threaten them' and complain that 'what is being done is not enough', and at the same time tell them that in case 'they don't fall into line', there is nothing we are going to do.

Someone has decided to do something positive (however, insignificant it may be) in a pro-active fashion, rather than sit and pontify. Their actions need be congratulated. If every Indian did something positive, each in his own way, we wouldn't be having this discussion today.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Dec 2008 20:17

it was discussed and followed by many brites earlier.. to boycott and dont use anything marked or made from pakistan, or any country that supports pakistan. just dont buy them.. automatic response.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Dec 2008 20:24

One basic question to brites et al.. does it matter to we Indians, that pigs must be destroyed by our strategies alone, or they can be destroyed by many other means. Based on your answers, many strategic policies can be emulated.

flash: they have a new weapon in their hands - "NSA - non state actors". All their local terrorites, rowdies, gun gangs, and jihadics are all have become recruits of NSA.

--

ps: /added later

now their population is reduced to double digits.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 12 Dec 2008 20:33

When the politicians have compromised the justice system severely and have no intention of fixing it, personal security for the average citizen in India is a game of dice even if we ignore terrorism. If your house is robbed or your family member is killed...well, suck it up, because "the justice system" will do nothing for you...except maybe hit upon you for some bribe monies. I am sure MMS's "apology" is pretty much the end of the "response" here with respect to fixing the system -- before the next election and after the next terrorist event that kills another 500 people, there will be articles on how the UPA started the FIA and how the NDA let it slide..won't be the first time that the elite politico-criminal class has supported terrorism against the common Indian to win the next election.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 12 Dec 2008 20:35

The NSA fig leaf is being provided by the Euros/Amir Khans to the Pakis -- with friends like Amir Khan, you do not need enemies.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 12 Dec 2008 20:40

SaiK, once the TSP is destroyed as a "state", ALL Pakis can claim to be NSAs. NSTs, 2 b precise.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Dec 2008 20:46

How fragile eh~.. but still the boundary seems to be a large psychological barrier for any "non-NSA" living on the planet.

chase after those who keep their "state" alive.. especially amrica et al who give billions.. and this is exactly what mumblers did, but somehow not accepted by NDA (shall we call them tumblers -noise making vessel at home!). (btw, i am not on any side here).

what is next by the mumblers, needs to be watched.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 12 Dec 2008 21:04

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sack- ... el/397720/

None of these worthies in the UPA/NDA ruling crowd have openly stated that they will work towards removing the influence of politicians in the Justice System. All that is being generated is more material for wrapping up roasted peanuts.

The PM seems to be in Jean-luc-picard "Make it so" mode (The security needs to be improved...make it so, you policepeople and don't eff up because it is all on your head, we politicians are pure as the driven snow). Some useless bhashan to the policemen who actually need equipment and training and most importantly "NO POLITICAL INTERFERENCE IN THEIR JOB", not worthless lectures on how to do their job by politicians who have not helped with equipping or training the police but used the Indian law&order machinery as party property.

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=645769

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Dec 2008 21:06

Looks like Tharoor is a closet Paki/Jihadi in mind. What does he mean the terrorists made enemies? Is this guy dhimmified or what and he is the flower of Indian diplomats to be sent as UN Secy gen candidate!

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Dec 2008 21:46

Pakistani army’s ties to Islamists under scrutiny

By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad, James Lamont in New Delhi and Daniel Dombey in Washington

Published: December 12 2008 13:21 | Last updated: December 12 2008 13:21

The motto of the Pakistani army explains much. It reads: ”Imaan, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah” or ”Faith, Piety, Holy War in the path of Allah”.

Where in many parts of the world a regimental motto might sit gathering dust on the silverware of an officers’ mess, these few words for Pakistan’s army reflect a highly contemporary dedication to the cause of Islam.

Islamist militants and their ’jihad’ have had been accorded the status of vital strategic assets by Pakistan’s rulers.

But terror attacks well beyond Pakistan’s border regions have drawn strong condemnation for these links. Pressure was applied after the September 11 2001 terror attacks on the US. Now once again, the ties are under scrutiny after last month’s devastating strike on Mumbai, for which India holds the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group to blame.

”The use of terrorism as an instrument of state policy is no longer acceptable. There should be no double standards in the global fight against terrorism. There are no good or bad terrorists,” Manmohan Singh, India’s prime minister, told the Indian parliament earlier this week. His words were plainly directed at Pakistan.

The US has weighed in behind India. Pakistan had ”to act since their territory had been used for these non-state actors to make those attacks,” said Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state.

Pakistan’s military now faces the dilemma of fighting the same Islamist groups that it helped to create. Western analysts believe some elements in the army – most particularly the Inter-Services Intelligence agency - retain loyalties with militants. But General Ashfaq Parvez Kiyani, the army’s chief, is determined to give a new direction to the military, away from Islamist hardliners.

This transformation is crucial for Pakistan’s statehood. The army is the country’s strongest institution, created when the country won independence in 1947. It numbers 619,000 personnel and has about 528,000 men in reserve. Moreover, it has considerable political clout having ruled the country directly for more than half of its 61 year existence.

The Pakistan army was designed as a territorial force with a defensive position against India. That changed when Pakistan’s support for the war against terror pushed the army into a new combat role against Islamist militants belonging to Al Qaeda and the Taliban along the Afghan border.

This week’s arrest of three militant leaders and the banning of the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a charity linked to Lashkar-e-Taiba, could mark a break ’jihad’. Pakistan took into custody Zaki ur Rehman Lakhvi, a key commander of the Lashkar-e-Taiba; Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, its leader; and Masood Azhar, an Islamic cleric blamed for the 2001 attack on India’s parliament.

The Bush administration has described this week’s detentions as ”positive” moves, but has warned Pakistan to take more than just ”one-off” measures.

Some analysts believe the Mumbai attacks and Pakistan’s threat to global security has armed its president Asif Ali Zardari with a reason to order a clampdown on ’jihadi’ groups.

”Inaction is not an option for Pakistan any longer. As you can see, there is so much trouble all around that the government has to order strong action,” says Abida Hussain, a leader of the ruling Pakistan People’s Party (PPP). ”Unless we take charge and defeat the militants, Pakistan’s future will be in jeopardy”.

Others are deeply sceptical. They worry that Pakistan’s commitment is weak and Mr Zardari ”a non-entity”. They fear the army will only make ”revolving door arrests” where militants are freed almost as soon as they are captured.

”Sustaining this effort is all about wiping out these groups. You have to close down all of their offices, take into custody all of their main members and stop the funding including funding from outside the country,” says Iqbal Haider, a leading human rights lawyer and former minister.

One diplomat described India as in the worst possible position as it tried to bring to justice those responsible for the Mumbai attacks.

He explained that the Pakistani army was the only institutional power in the land and that to undermine it brought the nuclear armed country only a step closer to being a failed state. Leverage lay solely with the US, which was hobbled in its response because it desperately needed the cooperation of the Pakistani army to stabilize Afghanistan, he said.

The torching of 150 trucks carrying supplies to US and Nato forces in Afghanistan last weekend in Peshawar, the provincial capital of the north west frontier province, was a powerful reminder of how fragile supply lines are.

That fragility may preserve the army’s motto for a little while longer.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Dec 2008 22:05

NRao wrote:
The motto of the Pakistani army explains much. It reads: ”Imaan, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah” or ”Faith, Piety, Holy War in the path of Allah”.

Where in many parts of the world a regimental motto might sit gathering dust on the silverware of an officers’ mess, these few words for Pakistan’s army reflect a highly contemporary dedication to the cause of Islam.

Islamist militants and their ’jihad’ have had been accorded the status of vital strategic assets by Pakistan’s rulers.

I pointed this out a year ago to date in my talk "Understanding Paksitan" to be found at the India Research. org site.

Its the only army in the world that has jihad in its motto and people like Uneven Cohen talk about enlightend moderation!

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Dec 2008 22:26

Towel already thrown in?
Link

Little hope of Pak acting against India's 'most wanted'
12 Dec 2008, 2200 hrs IST, Vishwa Mohan, TNN

NEW DELHI: There seems to be little hope of Pakistan delivering the 40 most wanted terrorists that India has demanded as Islamabad has
consistently denied their presence on its soil.

The chances of its proceeding against the 11 Pakistanis on the list are also non-existent because all of them have been part of ISI's proxy war against India.

The Pakistanis on the list include LeT chief Hafiz Saeed and his close associate and mastermind of Mumbai attacks Zakiur Rahman Lakhvi, jihadi leader Maulana Masood Azhar who had to be swapped for passengers of the hijacked IC-814 and the five hijackers who commandeered the plane to Kandahar.

Pakistan's resolve not to take action against those who feature on India's "most wanted" list is best illustrated by Dawood Ibrahim. The mafia boss has been hiding in plain sight in Pakistan even after the US designated him a "global terrorist". The immunity extends to the other 19 absconding members of the gang.

Even the UN action against LeT, JuD and terror masterminds like Saeed and Lakhvi is unlikely to spur the Pakistani authorities as Dawood has been a constant presence in such UN and Interpol lists for a while now.

Islamabad has routinely cocked a snook at Indian claims of terrorists of various hues - from Khalistani to jihadi - finding refuge in Pakistan. It has also failed to comply with international directives to round up these suspects and choke their financial and operational capabilities.

Dawood has been in the UNSC and Interpol lists for years but has been operating with ease under ISI patronage. India has even provided Pakistan with two Karachi addresses where Dawood is believed to be living but Islamabad has brazenly refused to act upon it.

The UNSC pressure has not worked against Dawood. Intelligence agencies here are skeptical if it will work against Saeed, Lakhvi and others. They believe even the initial posturing like freezing the terrorists' bank accounts and putting travel bans on them will fizzle out in a few months.

The Indian list also has the names of five Punjab terrorists of different Khalistani groups who have been hiding in Pakistan. Intelligence agencies in India believe these terrorists are under the protection of ISI -- which once played an active role in fomenting terrorism in Punjab.

Denial of Dawood's presence is the most brazen as New Delhi had, time and again, given specific details of his whereabouts to Islamabad.
Even the UNSC 1267 resolution, which makes it mandatory for UN member states to put ban on terrorists' bank accounts and travel, carries details of his Karachi addresses -- White House, Near Saudi Mosque, Clifton and House No 37, 30th Street, Defence Housing Authority -- on the basis of clear evidence provided to it by Indian authorities.

Its 400% certain that even the Indians and the Americans will know the facts stated in the article...
big Q is : has any plan been made for the next steps to be taken when usual Paki perfidy starts showing within 2-3 months?
Or does the UPA plan to start cracking(other than diplomatic means) somewhere in March-April very close to elections to help gain maximum mileage/votes like how Kargil swept NDA to power?

samuel · Post by **samuel** » 12 Dec 2008 22:28

Pakistan should not be let off the hook on tokenism: Cong
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... sm%3a+Cong

In particular,

"We do not want to let Pakistan off the hook in any manner....The government is right... That the cricket team should not go," party spokesman Manish Tewari told reporters in New Delhi.

Do you find the above response funny?
Is this the response an Indian, any Indian...how can that be?

Friends, the problem is not with the government which is just a reflection of the parties. The parties are not the problem, they are just a reflection of the people. The people are not the problem, they are just a reflection of oppression. The oppressors are not a problem, they left.

What's left are leftovers. How do we take ownership and educate a nation with that?

S

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 12 Dec 2008 22:42

ramana wrote:Looks like Tharoor is a closet Paki/Jihadi in mind. What does he mean the terrorists made enemies? Is this guy dhimmified or what and he is the flower of Indian diplomats to be sent as UN Secy gen candidate!

tharoor is a 400% dhimmi secular elite who uses every chance to flaunt "secularness" and similar stuff
he wrote a "reimagining of mahbharata" once - a history prof - major secularist herself i knew admitted in sadness, that some people would go to any length for publicity
the entire book is a glib take on indian culture going out of the way to offend to show how "modern" tharoor is

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Dec 2008 22:51

X-posted...

The best apology that mumble mumble singh(MMS) can give is to resign. The terrorist attack could be prevented if his Non-Security Adviser hadnt cornered all the power and prevented any response. Organization theory shows us that failure occurs in heiracrchial networks where there is blocks on information and action flows. The NSA had become the stumbling block as teh org chart from Outlook shows.
The fact that he offered to resign shows he knew he was at fault. Its MMS fault the he did not let the chips fall where they should.

Folks ask me what could have been done? Aur kya kar sakthe the?

After alerting Navy and Coastguard they should have activated th IB to work near the hotels(doesnt need Mumbai police help or Deshmukh's permission) and the fisherfolks to get early warning and even prevent the terrorists. The ATS Could have its eyes and ears open in the underworld for chatter about upcoming attack.

The RAW should have folks in the Karachi dockyard informing of every vessel moving from there. And IB in every fisherboat that plies the waters.

Ddi they tell Ratan Tata hsis hotle was atargt? He never would have relaxed the security that guests were complaining about. Anyway was there a 'tourists' reason to relax the guard at the hotels prior to the attack due to Thanksgiving?
More as I can think of it.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 12 Dec 2008 22:55

fishermen all around india can be a very effective 'coastal radar' if we knew how to tap into them effectively. many already use sms services to gather fish price data, perhaps they can sms or call in their suspicions and an UAV or Maritime Surv. aircraft can go investigate (after some info triage)?

could be a good low cost info channel and trip wire

(lets remind ourselves, the last time we were conquered was from the sea)

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Dec 2008 23:11

shashi tharoor has goofed up saying that.. the sheer attribution itself has wrong connotations. mention the enemy, then they need to be attributed to a "state". now, these pigs are non-state actors.

UNSC must be notified that all non-state actors (NSAs) must be eradicated from the world like a disease. equate this with the anti HIV / H5N1 program, rather.