Indian Response to Terrorism

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Dec 2008 23:18

lalmohoan, i am already thinking of an industry with that... fisherman's wifi network!!, RFIDs for all vessels, readable at long ranges..like from an IN aircraft.. the aircraft just receives an unregistered signal, the coordinates are surrounded, and if found dangerous, just gets blasted.

--

Pakistan will not hand over any of its nationals to India or to any other country in the wake of the Mumbai attacks, the government said.

Now, they have a "STATE"!!!??

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 12 Dec 2008 23:33

Pakistan has committed various acts of war on India so far with the full intention of causing an escalation -- an idea which will be cheered on in Wash DC, as that lets them "get involved" in Cashmere. Sri Pranab's statement that this terrorism has nothing to do with Kashmir probably cut of DC's chances of transmogrifying the Mumbai terror actions to something about Cashmere.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Dec 2008 00:07

Rye wrote:Pakistan has committed various acts of war on India so far with the full intention of causing an escalation -- an idea which will be cheered on in Wash DC, as that lets them "get involved" in Cashmere. Sri Pranab's statement that this terrorism has nothing to do with Kashmir probably cut of DC's chances of transmogrifying the Mumbai terror actions to something about Cashmere.

Rye< Initally I was for a hot headed respone but have toned down my urge for rash and immediate actions right after the attack was over. The more important goal is to make TSP implode and not explode for it is a collapsing state and will fail.
All sorts of gratituos advice is being proffered and India should take what it wants and reject what it doesnt want.

Vikramaditya · Post by **Vikramaditya** » 13 Dec 2008 00:10

ramana wrote:
NRao wrote:
The motto of the Pakistani army explains much. It reads: ”Imaan, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah” or ”Faith, Piety, Holy War in the path of Allah”.

Where in many parts of the world a regimental motto might sit gathering dust on the silverware of an officers’ mess, these few words for Pakistan’s army reflect a highly contemporary dedication to the cause of Islam.

Islamist militants and their ’jihad’ have had been accorded the status of vital strategic assets by Pakistan’s rulers.

I pointed this out a year ago to date in my talk "Understanding Paksitan" to be found at the India Research. org site.

Its the only army in the world that has jihad in its motto and people like Uneven Cohen talk about enlightend moderation!

From the horses mouth :

http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/jul/27inter.htm

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Dec 2008 00:18

The guy is a moron who is totally jihadised and Rediff is givng him space! That Sheela Bhatt is jihadi sympathiser. She is often at the heart of pro-jiohadi articles an interviews. She is an RNI- Resident Non Indian.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 13 Dec 2008 00:24

An onlooker is reported to have imagined a scenario in which India gave up Kashmir to the TSP (apologies beforehand for this non-suggestion) - the country would implode within weeks, since TSP would have nothing left to justify its existence. Interesting thought.
Just saw Ramchand Pakistani, very moving movie (is that an unintended pun). I couldnt believe Pakis had made it, it was very, very good. There seems to be some good left on that side.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 13 Dec 2008 00:29

Ddi they tell Ratan Tata hsis hotle was atargt? He never would have relaxed the security that guests were complaining about. Anyway was there a 'tourists' reason to relax the guard at the hotels prior to the attack due to Thanksgiving?

Yes he is on record in his TV interview on CNN as I recall, where Ratan Tata explicitly said that they were informed of the threat. He even said the terrorists entered from the back where the security was weaker.

So they knew the level of threat even then the measures were not up to the mark.

All hotels even in Goa as far back as 2006 did separate security checks for all belongings as one enters the premises. Even suitcases were scanned before being allowed into ones rooms. Maybe, they even have an X-ray scanner, who knows at 5-star ones like the Taj.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 13 Dec 2008 00:47

What Dawood? IF there is a D-Company, it has to be in India - the very country that HAS been trying to bring him "to books" is keeping him financially afloat?

There is no Pakistan without a PA.

And, to get rid of PA, we need to redraw PA.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 13 Dec 2008 00:49

The Guardian has totally lost my respect with this rambling piece by A Roy, for which she must have been remunerated by the number of words. One bestseller does not a prophet make. But despite the weariness induced by her rant, I still feel proud of my country that unlike the undemocratic hordes she speaks for, India tolerates her.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/de ... ndhati-roy

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 13 Dec 2008 00:59

Guardian is on an anti India spree:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... bai-terror
Why Kashmir holds the key
Resolving the Kashmir dispute would help Pakistan to end its support for Islamist separatists implicated in the Mumbai attacks

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Dec 2008 01:03

kshirin wrote:Guardian is on an anti India spree:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... bai-terror
Why Kashmir holds the key
Resolving the Kashmir dispute would help Pakistan to end its support for Islamist separatists implicated in the Mumbai attacks

Ask him to get that ratified and signed off by paki prime minister.. and use that signature as a document to present to UN et al, and declare pakistan is terrorist state.

Well that signature is all we want!.. to declare them to be a real TSP.

get it done!

maitya · Post by **maitya** » 13 Dec 2008 01:18

ramana wrote:X-posted...
...
Ddi they tell Ratan Tata hsis hotle was atargt? He never would have relaxed the security that guests were complaining about. Anyway was there a 'tourists' reason to relax the guard at the hotels prior to the attack due to Thanksgiving?
More as I can think of it.

Err, ramana-ji it seems they did warn Tata's per this report:Taj hotel was warned of terrorist attack: Ratan Tata

"It's ironic that we did have such a warning and we did have some (security) measures," Tata said in an interview to Fareed Zakaria to be broadcast on a news channel on Sunday.

While Tata wouldn't elaborate on the nature of the warning, he said security measures — such as making guests walk through a metal detector and not allowing cars to park in the hotel's portico — were eased shortly before Wednesday night's mayhem.

But even if the security detail was in place, it would not have prevented the terrorists from entering the hotel, Tata admitted.

"They knew what they were doing, and they did not go through the front. All of our (security) arrangements are in the front," he said. "They planned everything. I believe the first thing they did, they shot a sniffer dog and his handler. They went through the kitchen."

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Dec 2008 01:22

Lalmohan wrote:fishermen all around india can be a very effective 'coastal radar' if we knew how to tap into them effectively. many already use sms services to gather fish price data, perhaps they can sms or call in their suspicions and an UAV or Maritime Surv. aircraft can go investigate (after some info triage)?

could be a good low cost info channel and trip wire

(lets remind ourselves, the last time we were conquered was from the sea)

Provide all of them with iPhones with a Terrorist Mousetrap Application uploaded in the AppStore.

Added later: Naaah! Google's Android is much much better. Also OpenSource!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Dec 2008 01:22

Ok. What about the rest?

Sasi · Post by **Sasi** » 13 Dec 2008 03:09

Here goes the India-baiting (s**t) Arundhati Roy with her usual anti-India tirade. What a load of pure, unadulterated verbal diarrhea! She says the only way to contain terrorism is to look in the mirror - it is the Indian citizens who are the terrorists! There are so many errors and contortions in this article. But then again, Roy is never concerned about the veracity of her claims; she is simply content with spitting the venom against India. For example, saying terrorist mastermind Hafiz Saeed is from Shimla is plain wrong - Hafiz was born in Pakistan in 1950 and has been a Pakistani citizen all his life. So, just because his family migrated from Shimla doesn't make him a person from Shimla.

While Roy is happy to note the acquittal by Supreme Court of some of the accused in Parliament bombing, she distorts facts completely when it comes to Afzal whom the Supreme Court has given capital punishment. The Supreme Court has upheld the punishment given to Afzal but Arundhati doesn't know how to respect the law of the land.

As someone said, there are Non Resident Indians and Resident Non Indians; Arundhati belongs to the later. I am sure Arnab Goswami is not the only one who thinks Arundhati is disgusting because her concluding remarks (choose between looking in the mirror to see a for a terrorist (aka justice, according to Roy) and civil war) is what rabble-rousing is.

kshirin wrote:Guardian is on an anti India spree:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... bai-terror
Why Kashmir holds the key
Resolving the Kashmir dispute would help Pakistan to end its support for Islamist separatists implicated in the Mumbai attacks

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Dec 2008 04:29

Here is an article by Peter Jenkins which ends with wrong soultions.
Please discuss a good response to him.

Celrical Terror

To me the problem is the fundamentalization of the Indian muslims during the British period. The attackers are the progency of that era fundoos. All were from TSP. To say that India should give Cashmere to TSP to buy of these terrorists is non-starter for that is not what drives them Its the revisionist Islamist dogma of overlordhsip over Hindus that drives them.

And Peter Jenkins should read what his fellow British citizen Wilfrid Scawen Blunt wrote a hundred years ago in "Future of ISlam" and the advise he gave which has led to this monster.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 13 Dec 2008 05:47

Okay, the execrable witch has surfaced at last. And the Guardian is too happy to give space to his vile woman. A long tirade, in which she says Hafez-e-Pig of LET is equal equal with Advani. And says that the solution for the momentous challenge at hand right now is that we look in the mirror. Because it is all our (India's) fault, and that we ourselves are the biggest terrorists.

Oh, and she is mighty pissed at Arnab Goswami too. This witch is diabolical. But we knew that already.

Arundhati Roy: Mumbai was not our 9/11
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/de ... ndhati-roy

Through the endless hours of analysis and the endless op-ed essays, in India at least there has been very little mention of the elephants in the room: Kashmir, Gujarat and the demolition of the Babri Masjid.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 13 Dec 2008 06:17

The time to use water as a weapon is now!!

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=151566

WB lowers Pak GDP growth projections to 3 per cent
Saturday, December 13, 2008
By Mehtab Haider

ISLAMABAD: The World Bank (WB) has lowered the GDP growth projections for Pakistan to 3 per cent and the current account deficit to 4.6 per cent of the GDP for the current fiscal year 2008-09, states the Global Economic Prospects 2009 released by the WB.

The current account deficit stood at 8.1 per cent of the GDP in the previous fiscal year 2007-08, which would be brought down to 4.6 per cent of the GDP by end June 2009. The WB forecasts Pakistan’s GDP growth to 4.5 per cent by the next financial year 2009-2010.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 13 Dec 2008 06:20

Peter Jenkins ubacho

The neglect of Mawdudi's influence is a sad comment on Western knowledge about Islam and its history, but it also has worrying policy consequences. If modern Islamism is seen as an outgrowth of Middle Eastern conflicts and grievances, then those seeking a solution put a premium on resolving the Israel- Palestinian conflict. But we can just as plausibly see Islamist extremism as the product of a wholly different region and culture that has minimal investment in Palestinian issues. Nor would this particular kind of anti-Westernism just fade away even if the Palestine issue were ever settled.

The continuing danger of Islamist radicalism in Pakistan is all the more alarming given that nation's volatile strategic position. As a U.S. congressional report released this month noted, "Were one to map terrorism and weapons of mass destruction today, all roads would intersect in Pakistan." If Mawdudi's heirs are not to see his vision realized, our incoming administration needs to take Pakistan very seriously. At a minimum, it should spend at least as much time seeking a settlement in Kashmir as in Palestine.

The first part of his article is essentially factually correct, as far as the impact of Moududi is concerned. But to claim that he alone gave a twist to Islam, and gave it a shape that was nonexistent before, is not correct. Moududi is just one in a long chain from whoever first actually recorded the core texts of Islam in writing. What Moududi says was not new or unknown before in Islamic literature. The other great masterpiece of an Islamic intellect foisted upon this hapless world was descended from South Asia - Moududi is not saying things much different from what the Hidaya of Abu Hanifa, whose family (according to current scholarly majority wisdom) were originally traders based in Kabul, declares. I think anyone who places Abu Hanifas works on the ideals of the "state" side by side with Moududi's, they can see the essential similarities.

It is also correct, that the Palestine issue is not the be-all and end-all of Islamic issue. But the great intellect that realizes this fails to realize that there is no essential difference between the Palestine issue and the Kashmir issue. Genetic evidence as well as some archaeological evidence indicates that the Jews had been living around in the area they now claim as their own for thousands of years (even if not all claims of grandeur is not yet archaeologically supportable) - but the Islamic ideology forbids them to exist as an independent state. The Palestine strip is used by the Islamic world to erase the state of Israel, just as Kashmir is used by the Islamic world to aim for ultimate liquidation of non-Muslim India. Israel and India represent to the Muslim ideologues the ultimate symbols of resistance to their ideology of subjugation of all before their world view. Palestine and Kashmir are essentially the same - the same non-issue, a ploy or an excuse in the overall long term strategy of world domination (or at least that is the dream!).

Israel represents a strategic beachhead into the Islamic heartland from the Mediterranean (under whatever excuse, including Jerusalem being a centre for Christianity, etc.) for non-Muslim forces, and the Islamic world is keen to remove this beachead - a sign that it has consistent long term plans of consolidation and expansion. The same is true of Kashmir - for its incorporation into the Islamic chain, completes the loop around India with Islamophile China, a Communist Nepal, and Left-infested thin corridor over India through to Bangladesh, China moderated weak Buddhist state of Myanmar, to Malaysia and Indonesia. Palestine, and Kashmir are just excuses to hide the long term Islamic Jihadi agenda.

In any case, I think the use of external powers like the USA in fixing up TSP gives inordinate and unnecessary importance to external players. This is why people like Jenkins can use these pitiful exercises (he most probably copies majority of his material from Robinson) to push for concessions to Islamic states, not realizing that it amounts to concessions to the Islamic agenda, and if Israel and India falls before Islam - it will be a matter of only time before his own "home sweet home" dances to the tune of the Sharia.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 13 Dec 2008 06:31

Okay, the execrable witch has surfaced at last. And the Guardian is too happy to give space to his vile woman. A long tirade, in which she says Hafez-e-Pig of LET is equal equal with Advani. And says that the solution for the momentous challenge at hand right now is that we look in the mirror. Because it is all our (India's) fault, and that we ourselves are the biggest terrorists.

We give her a lot of credit by gnashing our teeth on what she says. I remember many enjoyed her remarks interpreted as slanting the "Reds" - even the Reds in their two states gnashed their teeth - I wonder how bitter-sweet this lady now tastes for them. Let us ignore her barkings and screeches. We will leave the likes of her by the wayside. Do such characters really deserve our time?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Dec 2008 06:33

I would call it "Operation Karma".

brahmos gonna have a big role this time! never ever think, how urgent we need such weapons. lesson for other purchases and projects.

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 13 Dec 2008 06:43

Baljeet pai,
Don't respair. Yada Yada hi dharmasya glanirbhavati bharata...

Baljeet wrote:
samuel.chandra wrote:I think BJP needs to up the pressure for military action. Arun Shourie/Narendra Modi are the kind of people BJP should put forward. They should rip holes in the congressi asses with their fiery speeches. Someone like Narendra Modi should get up and give MMS a thorough lashing for pontificating even after the evidence is clear. Pakis will not act without threat of imminent military action and congress will not act without an imminent election loss. So supporting the congress, in case they decide to act is the right thing. But not hitting hard if they decide to back off, is suicidal in the national elections...people are not going to see anything different in BJP. I think the congress understands this and thats why Rahul and Pranabda spoke so clearly about making them pay. The Indian citizens are waiting impatiently... mere statements won't do.

Dude Pleae.....
Try to grow up and get some gyan in life. Arun Shourie and Narendra Modi has no national appeal. They are regional players. Only way any of them can become PM is if BJP wins Absolute Majority, LKA dies and either of them becomes PM for rest of the term. India is a nation devoid of any leaders. We are full of apologists who much rather surrender than to stand upto terrorist form of I-Slam. In this nation of apologists and Gandhigiri there are no more "jugharoos". Just GUBO types.

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 13 Dec 2008 06:59

Possible. The very fact that congress bigwigs have not toned down the rheotic gives an indication that there will be military action. If they back down now after the tough talk from Rahul/Pranabda, they know they will lose in the elections. Also, BJP and Commies are coming out with statements supporting "any" action the govt takes.

sum wrote:Towel already thrown in?
Link
Little hope of Pak acting against India's 'most wanted'
12 Dec 2008, 2200 hrs IST, Vishwa Mohan, TNN

NEW DELHI: There seems to be little hope of Pakistan delivering the 40 most wanted terrorists that India has demanded as Islamabad has
consistently denied their presence on its soil.

The chances of its proceeding against the 11 Pakistanis on the list are also non-existent because all of them have been part of ISI's proxy war against India.

The Pakistanis on the list include LeT chief Hafiz Saeed and his close associate and mastermind of Mumbai attacks Zakiur Rahman Lakhvi, jihadi leader Maulana Masood Azhar who had to be swapped for passengers of the hijacked IC-814 and the five hijackers who commandeered the plane to Kandahar.

Pakistan's resolve not to take action against those who feature on India's "most wanted" list is best illustrated by Dawood Ibrahim. The mafia boss has been hiding in plain sight in Pakistan even after the US designated him a "global terrorist". The immunity extends to the other 19 absconding members of the gang.

Even the UN action against LeT, JuD and terror masterminds like Saeed and Lakhvi is unlikely to spur the Pakistani authorities as Dawood has been a constant presence in such UN and Interpol lists for a while now.

Islamabad has routinely cocked a snook at Indian claims of terrorists of various hues - from Khalistani to jihadi - finding refuge in Pakistan. It has also failed to comply with international directives to round up these suspects and choke their financial and operational capabilities.

Dawood has been in the UNSC and Interpol lists for years but has been operating with ease under ISI patronage. India has even provided Pakistan with two Karachi addresses where Dawood is believed to be living but Islamabad has brazenly refused to act upon it.

The UNSC pressure has not worked against Dawood. Intelligence agencies here are skeptical if it will work against Saeed, Lakhvi and others. They believe even the initial posturing like freezing the terrorists' bank accounts and putting travel bans on them will fizzle out in a few months.

The Indian list also has the names of five Punjab terrorists of different Khalistani groups who have been hiding in Pakistan. Intelligence agencies in India believe these terrorists are under the protection of ISI -- which once played an active role in fomenting terrorism in Punjab.

Denial of Dawood's presence is the most brazen as New Delhi had, time and again, given specific details of his whereabouts to Islamabad.
Even the UNSC 1267 resolution, which makes it mandatory for UN member states to put ban on terrorists' bank accounts and travel, carries details of his Karachi addresses -- White House, Near Saudi Mosque, Clifton and House No 37, 30th Street, Defence Housing Authority -- on the basis of clear evidence provided to it by Indian authorities.

Its 400% certain that even the Indians and the Americans will know the facts stated in the article...
big Q is : has any plan been made for the next steps to be taken when usual Paki perfidy starts showing within 2-3 months?
Or does the UPA plan to start cracking(other than diplomatic means) somewhere in March-April very close to elections to help gain maximum mileage/votes like how Kargil swept NDA to power?

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 13 Dec 2008 07:06

The only way a passive approach would work is if we increase the covert ops exponentially. If not, US/China will keep TSP alive with donations. They serve a very cheap lever against India.

ramana wrote:
Rye wrote:Pakistan has committed various acts of war on India so far with the full intention of causing an escalation -- an idea which will be cheered on in Wash DC, as that lets them "get involved" in Cashmere. Sri Pranab's statement that this terrorism has nothing to do with Kashmir probably cut of DC's chances of transmogrifying the Mumbai terror actions to something about Cashmere.

Rye< Initally I was for a hot headed respone but have toned down my urge for rash and immediate actions right after the attack was over. The more important goal is to make TSP implode and not explode for it is a collapsing state and will fail.
All sorts of gratituos advice is being proffered and India should take what it wants and reject what it doesnt want.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 13 Dec 2008 07:49

samuel.chandra wrote:

The only way a passive approach would work is if we increase the covert ops exponentially. If not, US/China will keep TSP alive with donations. They serve a very cheap lever against India.

The Pakis are providing the world the perfect cover of plausible deniability by exacerbating their internal divisions -- once a bum explodes in one of these coming years it is can always be one of their many enemies. They are going to be blowing each other up very soon, increasingly violent covert ops that conveniently takes out the spots that denudes Pakistan of the targets of various assets and capabilities that need to be gone in the long-term. As long as Pakistan behaves in the manner we all know will magnify their internal divisions, that is a good thng.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 13 Dec 2008 07:57

Arundhati Roy - no, she's not our 9/11 - but she's the al Zawahiri broadcasting his sh*t around the world after 9/11.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 13 Dec 2008 08:10

[quote="samuel.chandra"]Possible. The very fact that congress bigwigs have not toned down the rheotic gives an indication that there will be military action. If they back down now after the tough talk from Rahul/Pranabda, they know they will lose in the elections. Also, BJP and Commies are coming out with statements supporting "any" action the govt takes."

One reason might be that the govt is waiting to take delivery of the 3 AWACS from Israel, which are scheduled for delivery about now. I suspect Pak will hand over a few individuals to India, otherwise GOI will be forced to act...or lose all credibility. Nawaz Sharif has been implying (to my understanding) that Pak should offer the LeT operatives as sacrifice. This is an attempt by the paki civilian leadership to show independence from the military. The question is not whether pak will offer LeT operatives to India, but whom and how many. I know this is a minority opinion at the moment....

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Dec 2008 08:38

we have not integrated net-centricity in our joint ops. sope, we don't have to wait for those special a/cs.

We need more brahmos now.. thats the need of the hour.. more factories mftring it.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Dec 2008 10:24

Ramana,Pakistan must be declared a toxic terror environment,where no one should be let in or out.A cordon sanitaire is neccessary for Pakistan,so that no outsiders (as many have done so from Britain) enter the country and head straight oiff to the terror training centres or brainwashing factories (madrasas) and return to conduct mayhem in their host nations.Anyone under 60 with a Pakistani passport should be thoroughly screened,fingerprinted,dna,etc.,whenever the passport holder leaves the country on legit business,or entering another nation.A special counter at immigration/emigration for holders of passports from terror suspect nations should be established at all international airports.If the ungodly start using LTTE tactics,international shipping as a whole will be very vulnerable to terror attack.The fact that 26/11 involved assistance to the terror group by elements of the Paki navy was shocking,as it points out clear involvement of the military top brass in the attack.

Militarily,a naval screen should be established,preferably with international support,if not by India,with the authority to check and board any merchant vessel sailing into and out of a Pakistani port.Needless to say,India should completely seal off the border and mine the sections where surveillance is proving difficult to establish.Add to this a list of all Paki politicos,military men,etc., who are terror suspects,or suspected of asisting terror like Hamid gul,should either be beanned from international travel,or picked up immediately when spotted at any airport abroad and put on trial for terror.

Sanctions military and economic imposed,military most important.If it was done for the aprtheid regime in S.,Africa,why not for a far greater evil Pakistan,the epi-centre of world terrorism?

These measures will go a long way in corralling Pak and its terror operatives.They will have no other alternative but to sort themselves out inside their own farmyards.Let blood find its own level.It is simply suicidal for the international community to go into Pak and attempt to clean up the mess.In Afghanistan,the US should declare an entire strip of land abutting F(non-administered)TA/NWFP as a killing zone,where any insect found within it will be vaporised.UCAVs,and aircraft should just lay waste anything that moves in the zone after sufficient publicity.Those hamlets/villages within the zone will have to relocate or use designated routes of travel only which should be heavily monitored.For this though the US/NATO need their backs protected by the erstwhile "Northern Alliance" outfits and the cooperation of the Central Asian states under Russian influence.

The priority for the world today is defeating Islamist terror in Afghanistan/Pakistan.The true HQ lies within Pakistan,which needs to be castrated militarily.The international community is least equipped to broker tribal alliances and indulge in "bazaar bargaining" that afflicts the region.Declare Pak a "toxic" zone and let nothing in or out.

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 13 Dec 2008 11:50

Interesting. Found this on the sticky petition thread.

KV Rao wrote:Organize a boycott of person-to-person, business-to-business, person-to-business, business-to-person transactions with Pakistanis. Lift the boycott in individual cases when the business or person appeals to the Pakistani authorities to (a) acknowledge the perversity of their state ideology and (b) renounce said ideology in word and deed for evermore.

If you can't organize, at least take individual action. No shopping at Pakistani grocery stores, eating at Pakistani restaurants, using Pakistani travel agents, and so on. No Ethan Allen furniture or any other known Pakistani business. For those in India, no support of any kind for Pakistanis--no babies with heart problems, no cricket teams, no just plain visitors or tourists. Just have nothing to do with them, and say loudly why you are boycotting them, and what it will take for you to treat them like normal people again. No violence. No harsh rhetoric. Keep it civil and respectful. Just plainly and politely state your convictions and stand by them.

Do all you can to make the lives of Pakistanis a daily embarrassment. It worked with apartheid South Africa. Might well work with Pakistan. Better than sitting around griping that the government or America isn't doing anything for us.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 13 Dec 2008 13:33

The fisherman's wifi network is a great idea. BTW cross posting this from psy ops thread, I did not know Arundhati Roy had another name.

a_kumar wrote:
bart wrote: Why, what does that achieve? Are you suggesting that having a Christian name makes one anti-national?
I would call that putting words in ones mouth....Let me explain..

From Non-XYZ perspective, virtriol from a "seemingly XYZ" (aka. seemingly insider) becomes acceptable by default and somehow becomes more believable than opposing views from XYZs or Non-XYZs.

From XYZ perspective, vitriol from "seemingly XYZ" (aka. seemingly insider) makes them question what they know, irrespective of merits of vitriol. Even if they eventually find out, it gets difficult to fight something that is perceived as an insider view.. and in any case the "seemingly XYZ" would have successfully thrown mud and moved on to something else by that time.

So what A Roy is trying to do by dropping her first name is "masquerading as an insider" for maximux damage. She can write whatever crap she wants and it would be her views, as long as she is honest about her whereabouts. But, that is asking too much from the P-secs and we should call it out at every opportunity.

She has been Suzanna Arundhati Roy to me...

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 13 Dec 2008 18:37

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/dec/13 ... ilding.htm

What is wrong these $%#^^#$% who are getting the likes of Stephen Cohen a name in India -- don't these stupid #!$%^@$W organizing panIIT meets check the antecedants of the likes of Cohen before anointing him "a strategic expert on India".

IItian asked, Shouldn't you guys be talking about how to secure india from terror attacks by using technology, instead of only networking for your own benefit? Please sir let us know your thougths on this...
Nagarajan answers, Stephen Cohen, strategic thinker from Brookings Inst, has offered to conduct a special session on this subject, on Dec 20th morning.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 13 Dec 2008 18:39

Boycott ALL politicians - in India and the U.S/U.K/etc - who do not boycott Pakistan.

THIS IS THE TIME. (Sorry for the shout). Obama has declared it a source of terrorism, pressure him to declare it a terrorist state and then ACT.

I am not too sure what to do with Indian politicians - the mumbling jack****, spineless they are.

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 13 Dec 2008 20:27

Old videos but gives quite a good understanding of who we are dealing with and how important it is to crush them.

Hamid Gul speaking his heart about how he wishes americans lose in afghanistan (first video)
[youtube]gYKacRc-Hjc&NR[/youtube]

Hamid gul talking pro-jihad and anti-india/america

Lashkar e Toeba
[youtube]5zFqlYNtQY4&NR[/youtube]

Condition of women in pakistan

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 13 Dec 2008 21:26

Pakis back pockets have excess of excuses. They can ban, lock, etc, BUT canNOT find the money that funds these yahoos.

Of course. Now, I wonder why the UN did not think of this?

Money Eludes Pakistan's Crackdown on Accused Terror Group

DECEMBER 13, 2008

By MATTHEW ROSENBERG in Islamabad and GLENN R. SIMPSON in Washington

The dismantling of the Islamic charity linked to the Mumbai terror attacks is being seriously hampered by Pakistan's difficulties in tracking and seizing millions of dollars the group is believed to have stashed in bank accounts in Pakistan and abroad.

More than two weeks after gunmen stormed Mumbai in an attack that left 171 people dead, Pakistani authorities moved against Jamaat-ud-Dawa on Thursday, arresting its leaders, padlocking its offices and ordering its assets frozen. The clampdown came a day after the United Nations Security Council declared the charitable group a front for the militant Islamist terrorist organization Lashkar-e-Taiba, which India says planned the attacks.

In an interview, Rehman Malik, Pakistan's interior minister, said investigations into Jamaat's assets and funding are now under way. He said authorities are moving quickly to shut down offices and militant training camps, but added: "The government is not tracking everyone's accounts, frankly speaking."

Pakistan's shutdown of Islamic organization Jamaat-ud-Dawa has drawn protests such as this one Friday near a United Nations office in Pakistan-administrated Kashmir; the U.N. declared the group a terrorist front.

The public lead-up to the U.N. action gave the group ample time to transfer money out of most of its public bank accounts, a Pakistani finance ministry official said in an interview. The official estimated that the group has moved hundreds of thousands of dollars, "maybe millions" in recent days. "If we don't take away money, it can reopen any time," the official said. "The money in Pakistan is hidden now. We won't find it."

Jamaat officials, who last week invited reporters to tour their complex outside Lahore and see some of their social-service programs in action, have been unavailable to comment since Thursday's clampdown; many were either detained or being sought by Pakistani authorities. Previously they have insisted the group has no ties to Lashkar or terrorism and performs only charitable work.

As of Friday afternoon, at least one Jamaat-ud-Dawa account remained open for supporters to deposit donations, at least for the moment. People who wished could still deposit money at a Lahore branch of Bank Alfalah Ltd., a small lender part-owned by investors in Abu Dhabi, said the bank's operations officer, who would give his name only as Mr. Ali. He said neither Jamaat nor the government had asked him to shut the account, which was in the name of Markaz Jamat-ud-Dawa. Markaz means the "headquarters of" in Urdu.

Other bank officials, including at its main office in Karachi, didn't respond to requests to comment. Pakistan's central bank ordered all of Jamaat's assets frozen and accounts closed on Thursday, and Pakistani officials said they believed banks were complying with the order, but wouldn't elaborate or comment directly on the Alfalah account. The account has been open since at least 2005, when fliers urged people to give money to it during the Muslim holiday of Eid-al-Adha.

In Pakistan, Europe and the U.S., Jamaat has asked donors since 2005 to deposit funds at Bank Alfalah in the name of a separate charity, Idara Khidmat e Khalq or IKK, which the U.S. State Department identified in 2006 as an alias for Jamaat, according to counterterrorism officials.

U.S. supporters have been urged to wire dollars to IKK through the Bank of New York, according to a 2006 snapshot of the Web page captured by terrorism analyst Evan Kohlmann, an expert on Lashkar who frequently testifies in criminal cases involving the group. A Bank of New York spokesman said no donations were ever transmitted through the account. On the same page, donations in euros were solicited in Europe through a bank in Munich.

Cutting off funding is a key goal of the U.S. war on terrorism. Since Sept. 11, 2001, the U.S. Treasury Department says it has successfully closed down dozens of jihadist charities and made it difficult for al Qaeda to raise and move large sums.

Jamaat is a difficult case. Its substantial social-service and humanitarian efforts within Pakistan have given it a deep base of local support and funds. The group also raises money around the world, including from mosques in the U.K. and charities in Saudi Arabia. Terrorism experts say charitable funds frequently are mingled with funds for terrorist operations, making it difficult for authorities to act without provoking protests that they are seizing money destined for good works.

"If there is some hospital, what can we do?" said Mr. Malik, the interior minister. "We do not want to shut down all these things."

An incomplete Pakistani effort against Jamaat risks undermining a four-year peace process with India, which has demanded action after the Mumbai attacks. The two countries have fought three wars since independence in 1947, and renewed discord with India could draw Pakistan's attention away from battling Taliban and al Qaeda forces on its border with Afghanistan. But a strong crackdown carries risks for the Pakistani government because of widespread support for Jamaat in parts of Pakistan and antipathy toward India among the country's populace. An unstable government also would hurt the terror-fighting effort.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa, or "party of preachers," was founded in 2002, shortly after Pakistan banned the group Lashkar-e-Taiba under U.S. pressure and placed its leader, Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, under house arrest. Jamaat took over Lashkar's complex near Lahore, and Mr. Saeed was released within months.

Many terror experts say the group's ties to Lashkar are tight, with Jamaat's schools funneling future fighters to the militant group. The U.S. placed Jamaat on a terror watch list in 2006, and the U.N. Security Council on Wednesday placed financial sanctions on Mr. Saeed.

By Friday, Mr. Saeed was under house arrest along with a handful of other top Jamaat leaders, spurring more of the protests that been mounted in several Pakistani cities since Indian officials began accusing Lashkar of involvement in the Mumbai attacks. Officials said earlier in the week that Lashkar's chief of operations and at least 20 additional members of the militant group had been arrested in raids that began Sunday.

The arrests will certainly set Jamaat back, experts say. But Jamaat's fund-raising network "is the jugular. That's what has to be the real first step," said Shuja Nawaz, an expert on Pakistan at the Atlantic Council, a Washington think tank.

A related challenge is persuading ordinary Pakistanis to stop giving money to Jamaat. The group has sunk deep roots in Punjab, Pakistan's most populous province, and other parts of the country, providing schooling and health care to people who often get little from Pakistan's government. Hundreds of thousands turn out to hear Mr. Saeed's speeches urging Muslims to take up jihad, often translated as a holy war, against India and the West.

This week, Jamaat members and supporters across Pakistan were collecting the hides of animals slaughtered for the Eid-al-Adha holiday. The hides are donated by supporters and then sold to help fund Jamaat's operations, said Ghulam, a 51-year-old former Lashkar member who maintains links with Jamaat.

Ghulam, who works at a hide market in the eastern city of Lahore and asked that only his first name be used, said authorities stopped Jamaat members from collecting hides late Wednesday in Lahore. But in other cities, such as Peshawar and Karachi, Jamaat was still collecting hides to sell through Thursday night.

Ghulam said people ignored contentions -- by India, the U.S. and some Pakistani officials -- that their donations could fuel attacks such as those in Mumbai. "They know we are providing good works," he said, citing the group's role in aiding victims of the 2005 earthquake in Kashmir.

Jamaat also goes house to house in many places to collect 2.5% of each family's annual savings as a donation to the poor. Another Jamaat member interviewed Thursday said such collections would continue. "No one will stop giving. We will not stop asking," he said.

The U.S. Treasury, using initials for Jamaat-ud-Dawa and Lashkar-e-Taiba, said this week: "Given its shared leadership, JUD continues to use LT's vast network of mosques, madrassas, and fundraising offices throughout Pakistan to raise money and recruit members."

From abroad, money comes from Jamaat's ties to a network of mosques in Europe that are frequented by many ordinary Muslims with no connections to violence.

Write to Matthew Rosenberg at matthew.rosenberg@wsj.com and Glenn R. Simpson at glenn.simpson@wsj.com

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 13 Dec 2008 21:31

What a set of jokers.

Jokers that were backed and tutored by the West.

That very West, that was TOLD that they are backing the wrong horse, now cannot deal with the very lie that they taught Pakistan.

What a set of jokers.

faraz · Post by **faraz** » 13 Dec 2008 21:32

With all due respect, It was worth it. All small efforts are worth it.

Sometime, I feel It is worth more than Candle-light marches , Human Chains, Arun-dhat-terek-i Roy and Kul-deep-$h1t Naiyyar.

There are more sites that need to be hacked. One being Jamaat-ud-dawaa and the other of Ahmed Quraishi

Jo Islamabad mein Gandoo wo Programming, Security aur Designing mein bhi Gandoo.

NRao wrote:Hacking is not a big deal folks. Not worth the waste of bandwidth..

Back to the topic.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 13 Dec 2008 21:40

Next time, instead of the tiranga, I hope they post something more descriptive of how the world would like to greet them:
Either this
or
this

Of course everyone knows that I am all against hacking, it should not b encouraged...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Dec 2008 21:41

ramana wrote:Ok. What about the rest?

sorry ramana, couldn't get the context here.

faraz · Post by **faraz** » 13 Dec 2008 21:48

Everyone knows I am against hacking

It should not be encouraged.

faraz wrote:With all due respect, It was worth it. All small efforts are worth it.

Sometime, I feel It is worth more than Candle-light marches , Human Chains, Arun-dhat-terek-i Roy and Kul-deep-$h1t Naiyyar.

There are more sites that need to be hacked. One being Jamaat-ud-dawaa and the other of Ahmed Quraishi

Jo Islamabad mein Gandoo wo Programming, Security aur Designing mein bhi Gandoo.

NRao wrote:Hacking is not a big deal folks. Not worth the waste of bandwidth..

Back to the topic.