Indian Response to Terrorism

shyamd
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby shyamd » 25 Dec 2008 20:33

I don't think war is the answer, it has to be specific strikes against specific terrorists. Rip off the top mgt of the terror groups. Any bombing on training facilities, and paki's will do an al sukkariya(syria) type incident, where paki's will claim innocent farmers family was targeted by evil kaafir yindu's, and then create huge PR campaign. These camps are nothing but tents, they can easily be shifted. We need to target the army walla's who are the handlers for the terror groups and senior leaders themselves, it is these type of targets that need to be hit. This isn't going to be a permanent solution, but a temporary one. To stop terror in India completely, one needs to make the army commanders feel fear (i.e targetted assassinations) as they are the real controllers of Pak.

Anyway, the paki army owns most of the biz in Pak, bleed the country economically. Blockade ports, shut down electricity, airports, infrastructure.

Just IMHO.

Aahh well, these are probably just dreams when you look at this govt.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby sid_ashar » 25 Dec 2008 21:39

The bottom line is that if one talks about taking out the heads of terrorist groups, you have to seriously think about taking out and eliminating the leadership of the pukistan army and their intelligence services. There is really no point in talking about eliminating (the funny thing is that the indian govt talks about prosecuting them) scum like Azhar, Dawood, Saeed etc. You cut one head, there will be 10 others. If we have the guts to say that the ISI and the Army area responsible for nurturing these groups, why not just eliminate the leadership and send a tough message.

If India really wants to send a tough message without firing any shots, they could do two things - 1. Slowly start moving 1 or 2 divisions of the army with appropriate air assets to Afghanistan near the Baluchistan border around Kandhahar. They wont dream of moving 100,000 troups from their western border.
2. Since it was possible to penetrate a few km inside their border near lahore, get a couple of planes to drop leaflets on lahore to send a message we can strike whenever we want.

Food for thought.

-Siddharth

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby krish.pf » 25 Dec 2008 21:42

Like I said, before, as long as we have our Dear Leader nothing is going to happen.

I just spoke to a couple of guys I know, and they seem terrified of Pakistan after their little circus show over their cities. Before they were for surgical strikes but now they were again back to their "war brings destruction" mode after Pakistan started their war show.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Ramesh » 25 Dec 2008 21:52

This is my first post in the forum. Being a member of the armed forces, my opinion may be biased but i feel where we are making a fundamental mistake in our country is that we are treating terrorism as a law and order problem where as what we are facing is a full fledged war.
I remember some years ago how someone in this forum had highlighted the need for involving persons with military background in intelligence/ counterintelligence.
Isn't it surprising that inspite of facing this menace for so many years we are yet to issue biometric i-cards for our citizens?
We need to strengthen ourselves internally before its too late. And for heavens sake, we need to give some reply( overt / covert, it doesn't matter- as long as the result is telling) to our enemies before incidents like this become a norm.
The events over the past years just reminds me of the tittle of a book by Arun shourie HOW LONG WILL THE IRON FENCE PROTECT THE TERMITE EATEN TREE? or words to that effect.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Singha » 25 Dec 2008 22:10

national-id cards are a no-no in India because opposition will raise protests as millions of bangladeshi settlers are handed out id cards.

instead the govt prefers to give them voter ids, ration cards and land deeds to keep them happy and avoid hurting muslim sentiments.

id-cards will serve no purpose in India as my 2nd para shows.

we dont have a proper and comprehensive system to keep track of births,
deaths and property - something that western countries have put in
place for 500 years now.

as you said, no point going all defensive...India is always going to be a
loose ball of wool with numerous gaps in the fort...offense is the only
option - repeated periodically.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby NRao » 25 Dec 2008 22:13

Ashuji,

Welcome and thanks for your and others contribution to the country.

A couple of three observations.

Bias: we all have them, one way or another. The issue is does the leadership - BOTH political and business have any biases. They do and that is ONE of the problems.

I was re-reading "cold start" - a rather dated paper, but one thing the western author mentions: Indian decision making system. It is so antiquated that by the time a decision is made the window of opportunity has gone by. Which is what HAS happened here. Everyone but the GoI has gone to the next page and the IAF is still practicing precision bombing. Is there a chance that one of the 5000 identified targets will get a hit, sure, there is a very good chance. But, the result will not be the same as a month ago.

It may be to the GoIs advantage to hit first and then provide proof.

On the issue of improvement. Issues biocards, etc - only the good people will follow it. There are still bad guys within GoI (UN needs to ban these guys too along with Dawood, etc), what of them? IF Dawood can have multiple passports, he can easily get multiple IDcards too - biometric id cards. Modern science and the like cannot eradicate corruption, it can only slow it down (see Illinois politics in the U.S) at best. Nothing can replace the path of truth.

India IMHO is a systemic failure waiting to get worse. India, IMHO, may need a temporary replacement of civies - ouch. Needs a bad jolt.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Chandragupta » 25 Dec 2008 22:18

Embarassing that a joke of a country like Pakistan can bully a giant India. It's not about leaders anymore, it's about mentality, about people. Like someone here said how his friends who were baying for blood before, have now transformed into cows.

If this is how the country is, then I'm beginning to believe, more than ever, that we deserve what is happening to us.

I guess 200 years of British slavery, coupled with heavy duty dose of non violence & ahimsa has truly & completely deprived India & Indians of their aggression. I think we've become used to being tamed & bullied & used & kicked around.

Only if there was a Bhagat Singh or Azaad to take over the leadership & rally Indians into the people we once were & are capable of becoming again.

One thing I do not understand, that successive governments have talked about following the China model, the best thing they can learn from China, leave Business & Economics, is the raw aggression & sense of pride. If it was China instead of India, Pakistan would have been neutralised decades ago & merged into the mainland. For heaven's sake, leave China if you have to, leave Israel, look at Vietnam!

If we don't want to go to war, then fine, execute covert operations, blow up every single major building in Islamabad & Karachi, blast every market in Porkiland, for every 1 Indian killed since 1980, we kill 10. But thats when our morals come into play, we don't want to get off our moral high horse either. Such a pity, even Lord Krishna beheaded Sishupal after his 100 abuses, to think we're only humans. :cry:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby ezra » 25 Dec 2008 22:20

krish.pf wrote:Like I said, before, as long as we have our Dear Leader nothing is going to happen.

I just spoke to a couple of guys I know, and they seem terrified of Pakistan after their little circus show over their cities. Before they were for surgical strikes but now they were again back to their "war brings destruction" mode after Pakistan started their war show.


Tell your friends they can calm down now the Pakistani jets have run out of fuel after managing to scare a few chickens ...and your friends. :)
Last edited by ezra on 25 Dec 2008 22:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Karan Dixit » 25 Dec 2008 22:20

So, today is 26th. The end of the deadline.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Baljeet » 25 Dec 2008 22:23

Ashu
I don't know what service branch you are from, but welcome to the forum, hoping some great input from you.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Baljeet » 25 Dec 2008 22:38

ramana wrote:Only effective surgical strikes are the bobbit ones.
----
One thing I dont understand is this. Everyoe and his godfather says that TSP wants to rush troops to Indian borders and that would give free rein to the Taliban/Pakiban dregs to wage war in Afghanistan and dethorne Karzai. Wont the mass exit of the TSP troops from the FATA/WANA areas allow the US to conduct air strikes at will on the dregs? Arent the dregs being supported with TSPA presence? So the US should say go ahead and go to the Indian border as it gives us free way to take care of the dregs by hot prusuit.

Why doesnt the US do that? Its munafa he muanfa!

Or is the US really stretched and wants to keep the pretence that TSPA is keeping the dregs under control in the badlands?

Ramana boss
Unkil needs paki khaki for their supply lines. Alternate routes to afghanistan including the option from turkey and russia. once those supply routes are established, supplies have been stockpiled, its a different story. As I have said before, this is not the time for war but build up our force level, weapons and ammo inventory, assets in pakistan. We should prepare for war that is on other side of the horizon. Soon it will cross over and look straight into eyes. That's the time when we should not blink but stand up and fight, settle this score once for all. World history has decided to take turn, pieces are in place, its matter of time before game gets intense. I hope by that time we have leaders who will have the balls to stand and fight. I hope entire current leadership of India has died or perished in some other way.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby NRao » 25 Dec 2008 22:42


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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby NRao » 25 Dec 2008 22:45

Maldives advising India: Terrorists may recruit pirates: Maldives

The recent attack on Mumbai has shown that terrorists were using 16th century ideas of carrying out strikes through the sea, said Nasheed, who swept to Presidency in the first democratic elections in the archipelago nation two months ago.

The issue of being more observant and vigilant at sea came up during his discussions with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Wednesday, said the 41-year-old leader wrapping up his first official visit to India.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby abhishekpr » 25 Dec 2008 22:50

Karan Dixit wrote:So, today is 26th. The end of the deadline.


And end of a flop show of our spineless politicians' sabre rattling. Pakistanis rightly say, Indian noises are all about drum beat. I am terribly ashamed of our politicians. In the last 4.5 years of our spineless PM's speeches have been replete with: "I appeal", "I urge" and this time it was "I apologize to the nation". Bloody nation doesn't need your apologies dammit! Rather than asking Pakistan for action, we should first ask our spineless PM for action. Gosh! I feel so pained that we are committing such a historical blunder by not striking TSP at this juncture! There will be attacks in the future and at some point of time we will have to take a tough call. Taking that call would have been less expensive in the past. Its going to be far more expensive in the future. Tomorrow we wont have a face to attack Bangladesh if they start attacking us like TSP attacked us in Mumbai.

Dejected! :cry:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Singha » 25 Dec 2008 23:10

icing on cake is bleating and going to lick saudi shoes asking them to
reign their dog in :rotfl: it was saudi ulema and royals who funded the
monster, so like a good dhimmi UPA is going there to beg.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Vikram_S » 25 Dec 2008 23:16

they are going there to beg their real masters not to upset indian public so much that they lose elections.

it is all about election for UPA.

maino madam and prince baba are only worried about power, even if india burns they can go to europe but who will do such service for them and giving up that kind of power is not fun.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby KSubramanian » 25 Dec 2008 23:17

Karan Dixit wrote:So, today is 26th. The end of the deadline.


If the govt is going to take action, it bloody well wont announce it from the rooftops.
Understand... put the various news in perspective... what MMS said was "war is not the issue, the issue is terrorism"
Please read between the lines, he never said war is not an option. I agree that revenge is a dish that is best served cold.

Another thing I remember is that bhasmasur was very dangerous and used to defeat every one he encountered by putting his hand on their head and hence making them explode until one day he met his match in mohini who by her charm made him keep his hand on his own head and hence he himself turned into ashes. This is what we need to do.. overt action will lead to us fighting pakistan on its terms... we need to fight it on our own terms... I am ready for a long term covert war even if it takes an year. we can use this time to set our internal security situation correct.

Striking when the iron is hot sounds all fine and dandy, but we need to finish this thing once and for all without risking a war that would leave thousands of people dead and injured. The same public sentiment that is so pro war now will become completely anti war if missiles start hitting population centers. So, I believe the government is taking the long hard route rather than taking the short one which would lead to short term happiness about the government and election victory.

Another clarification, I have no conflict of interest as I dont support the Kangress and its policies.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby RajaJi » 25 Dec 2008 23:18

I don't think there can be such a scenerio such as surgical strikes, because the moment there's even one surgical strike, pukistan will start an all out war. So, the GoI has to go in thinking that there's gona be an all out confilct. pukistanis hate India, and that hatred for India is what's holding them together, it's inbred in them to hate India, it's their reason for being, it's what drives them. It seems as they are hoping that India does something and it gives them a chance to hit India hard. So, India has to hit them fast, and hit them hard, make them eat some dust, hit them so hard and drive that hatred out of them. That's the only way, there has to be alot of casualities on pukistani side, lot's of collateral dammage. Nuke them, before they get a chance to Nuke India. All this misery and destruction will drive out the hatred of India that is deeply instilled in every pukistani. That feeling of hate will then turn into a strong feeling of mercy and then there will be a new beginning of long lasting peace :) Amen!

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Singha » 25 Dec 2008 23:26

because the moment there's even one surgical strike, pukistan will start an all out war

why would they take that risky path with their economy and military
in current shape? at best you can expect them to launch air raids and
artillery attacks....all depends on what we hit.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby abhishekpr » 25 Dec 2008 23:32

KSubramanian wrote: So, I believe the government is taking the long hard route rather than taking the short one which would lead to short term happiness about the government and election victory.


I guess that would fantastically explain why Antulay is still in the government.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Yogi_G » 25 Dec 2008 23:35

Singha wrote:because the moment there's even one surgical strike, pukistan will start an all out war

why would they take that risky path with their economy and military
in current shape? at best you can expect them to launch air raids and
artillery attacks....all depends on what we hit.


I have been wondering for the last few days if TSP would be able to use IMF money to fund the war. I mean, this is assuming the unlikely scenario of TSP wanting war in its current state. Is there any IMF clause in place which prevents them from diverting the funds to war....wud the IMF be able to arm-twist them if they do so? I tried googling for this info but not much help...

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Chinmayanand » 25 Dec 2008 23:40

Karan Dixit wrote:So, today is 26th. The end of the deadline.


Fikar not, deadlines can be extended.It'll be extended till the porkis dismantle their terror infrastructure. :rotfl:
Now , we are at the mercy of the porkis.Since,our establishment is impotent , let us hope , the porkis start the war.Come on , porki morons , do us a favour .Start the fight as you always do. :)

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Singha » 25 Dec 2008 23:42

yeah they are our last hope now :((

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Vikram_S » 25 Dec 2008 23:43

ksubramaniam

i would love to believe you but for track record of present govt and leader in chief who claimed pak is victim of terror, wanted siachen peace park etc.

you tell him your bhasmasur story he will call you communal warmonger. that is the kind of person he is.

with such leadership all such mythologies is to convince ourselves; GOI is too useless currently to believe in such things. or to defend its people.

and i am not only one saying this - pls see vikram sood, sahni, b raman or g parthas comments, they are all disgusted at state of affairs and are left to complain like us.

i will believe all this revenge is best when cold business when i see the change in reality. they will not even leave antulay for sake of elections and we should think they will take hard line on terrorism?

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby KSubramanian » 25 Dec 2008 23:48

abhishekpr wrote:
KSubramanian wrote: So, I believe the government is taking the long hard route rather than taking the short one which would lead to short term happiness about the government and election victory.


I guess that would fantastically explain why Antulay is still in the government.


you know the concept of useful idiot dont you?
He is useful in internal votebank politics.and It is a completely different conspiracy.
Antulay raised the question that a lot of urdu newspapers had been raising and brought it into the main stream.
Then our HM Chidu clarified things in the parliament... takes out the ground from under the feet of the urdu newspapers.
If they had continued to write their invective, Kangress would have lost a major portion of its votes.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Muppalla » 25 Dec 2008 23:50

Antulay is not alone he has a groundswell of support at grassroots.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby RavinM » 25 Dec 2008 23:52

Vikram_S wrote:Hali is smoking hashish, he is complete idiot

98 x MiG-27 ML, 16 x MiG-23 BN, 72 x MiG-21 M/MF, 64 x Jaguar IS and 10 x Jaguar IM. Its inventory of 321 (including 32 Trainers) multi-role aircraft comprises 48 x MiG-29, 36 x Mirage 2000H, 104 x MiG-21 Bison, 48 x Sukhoi-30 MKI, 48 x MiG-21Bis.


120 + Bison is capable of PGM strike (kab bomb, kh-25/29 missile)
4 Sq of MKI --> 60-80 aircraft capable of PGM strike (kab bomb, kh-25/29 missile)
2 Sq of MiG-27 upgraded planes --> capable of PGM strike (LGB)
3 Sq of Mirage 2000 --> capable of PGM strike (lgb, crystal maz missile)
2-3 Sq of Jaguar planes --> capable of PGM strike (lgb)

he is doing this to fool pakistan public and make them proud



can anybody post the porkistan arsenal? so we can hypothtically deduce the events , if we go ahead with surgical / curative strikes!

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby KSubramanian » 26 Dec 2008 00:00

Vikram_S wrote:ksubramaniam

i would love to believe you but for track record of present govt and leader in chief who claimed pak is victim of terror, wanted siachen peace park etc.

you tell him your bhasmasur story he will call you communal warmonger. that is the kind of person he is.

with such leadership all such mythologies is to convince ourselves; GOI is too useless currently to believe in such things. or to defend its people.

and i am not only one saying this - pls see vikram sood, sahni, b raman or g parthas comments, they are all disgusted at state of affairs and are left to complain like us.

i will believe all this revenge is best when cold business when i see the change in reality. they will not even leave antulay for sake of elections and we should think they will take hard line on terrorism?


Saam, Daam, Dand, Bhed should be used to change the viewpoint of enemies.
What was done was a saam(we've been doing a bit too much of it). Unkil on the other hand has been doing a too much of daam and just recently shifted to a dand strategy.

We've had nincompoops like Gujral and HDDG as PM and they have really sold out our nation and its capacity to respond (within minutes) to such operations. But otherwise both ABV and MMS in their own ways have been doing a good job handling the PM post(given the circumstances). Our reaction in 2001 was something that did not work, our govt amassed troops by the thousands, talked the good talk (remember "aar paar kii ladai") but did not act.
Every situation demands a different response. Our leaders should quell talks of war and then quietly go and abduct Maulana Massod Azhar, Gen. Hamid Gul etc from pakistan soil, call them war criminals and say that they were arrested in New Delhi trying to set off bombs. I am sure that will really make the porks sh!t in their burkhas.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Anabhaya » 26 Dec 2008 00:06

The letter that PC sent to Chief Ministers.

What have we come to if setting up 24 X 7 control rooms require a strongly worded letter from the Union Home Minister? :roll:

On war. What are you guys smokin really? PC has called up a CM's meet on Jan 6th. You don't plan war and still invite all CM's to Dilli.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby brihaspati » 26 Dec 2008 00:08

NRaoji,
This is significant not because of what it advises but where the advice is coming from:

Maldives advising India: Terrorists may recruit pirates: Maldives
The recent attack on Mumbai has shown that terrorists were using 16th century ideas of carrying out strikes through the sea, said Nasheed, who swept to Presidency in the first democratic elections in the archipelago nation two months ago.
The issue of being more observant and vigilant at sea came up during his discussions with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Wednesday, said the 41-year-old leader wrapping up his first official visit to India.


Article 9, Section D of the new Maldives Constitution ratified on August 9, 2008 states that “a non-Muslim may not become a citizen of the Maldives.” In addition to denying non-Muslims citizenship, the new constitution favors Sunni Islam over other forms of Islam, and establishes many aspects of Sharia law in the Maldives and limits the freedom of expression and thought to “manners” which are “not contrary to a tenet of Islam.” King Kaliminja who was previously a Buddhist, became Sultan Dharmas Mohamed Ibn Abdulla (probably out of political rivalry with Sri Lanka and trade related Arabian sea politics around 1153). During the next thirteen years of his reign he set about introducing Islamic law throughout the islands before sailing away on a pilgrimage to Mecca, never to be heard of again. Almost sixty years elapsed before the conversion to Islam was complete. According to the Isdhoo loamaafaana, the next King, who came to power in AD 1179, sent an expedition to the southern island of Dhabidhoo in Laamu Atoll to bring the Buddhists to heel. "The Great King, Srimat Gadanaditya, an ornament to the Lunar Dynasty, resplendent as gold, firm as an Asala [stone pillar], defender of the entire hundred thousand of islands, brilliant as the sun, moon and stars, virtuous in every manner, lord of love, mine of jewels, adorned with a crown set with gems, - On the fourth year of his becoming the sole monarch he, having destroyed the shrine erected previously by the infidel Kings of Dhanbidu, uprooted the Buddha images, and caused the infidel Kings to read the Shahadat."

Given this history, and the increasing Shriatization, Maldives is ideally placed geographically with its numerous islands to provide HR for ops against India. I am not sure the statement about prirates is a diplomatic pre-emptive coverup.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby RajaJi » 26 Dec 2008 00:11

Singha wrote:because the moment there's even one surgical strike, pukistan will start an all out war

why would they take that risky path with their economy and military
in current shape? at best you can expect them to launch air raids and
artillery attacks....all depends on what we hit.


Because they're mental cases, they're stupid, they see dropping a nuclear bomb on another nation as something very casual. Basically, their mental level is on par with a suicide bomber, pukistan is a suicide terrorist in the form of a state. They need to be eradicated, pukistan needs to be broken into 4-5 smaller independent states, and their nuclear assets taken away, what good is a suicide bomber withought the bomb? So, we need to take the bomb from the suicide bomber and then slap him silly till he begs for mercy and sees war and violence as very bad things, we need to make gandhis out of them, and the only way to do that is by hitting them hard and giving them immense pain :) See how docile and peaceful the Japanese are after the bomb was dropped on them, similar needs to be done with pukistan.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby ezra » 26 Dec 2008 00:16

Make no mistake Pakistan is under no illusion that the Indian army can walk across border and own Pakistan tomorrow..

In order to do that however India being a responsible democracy in the world community has to have a valid reason for stating a war.

This poses a few problems since the cowards in Pakistan, who are full of bravado for the sake of the inbred morons that make up their population, do not have the balls to takes on India face to face. Instead they sneak in a few misguided souls with promises that their families will be taken care off and being welcomed into Muslim heaven with all those virgins..(stupid bas... they should ask for a down payment on those virgins).

Never the less Pakistan is now a democracy so we just can't lay into them.. No matter how tough it may be they say "he who alleges must prove". Since none of the cowards responsible and supposedly itching for a war has taken responsibility for the attack this will take longer to prove.

Since a surgical strike will only be symbolic and blow up a few tents, India should only do so when its ready to start a war.. In the mean time as they say "if you want peace prepare for war".
Last edited by ezra on 26 Dec 2008 00:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby RajaJi » 26 Dec 2008 00:19

If there are indeed going to be air raids on pukistan by the IAF, I wish they really pound the places held by dawood b**tard, hit his house and other place of interest to him. And if he and his henchmen die in those bombing the better, he's a gaddaar, and a gaddaar is even worse then the enemy, he needs to pay the price, face the consequences of his misdeeds and be made an example of.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Vikram_S » 26 Dec 2008 00:20

dear k sub,

first be aware of 2001. there were attacks on pak positions every day and army was mobilized so that pak could not counterattack across LOC. that was level at which ABV went despite knowing risks of all out war breaking out.

musharraf came on TV and squeeked hudabaya speech also. infiltration went down. JK also election went smoothly.

now after this new Govt came, TSP smelt weakness and attack went up and have not stopped because MMS the gutless wonder and shivraj patil refused to see reality. that is idealogy over reality.

now you tell me what action has this present Govt taken in bomb attack after attack? not a single measure has been taken. india-today has article on how Modi govt attempt to set up coastal surveillance was stopped. either it was political partisanship or sheer lack of concern either way it is equally stupid and now 200 dead 200 crippled in mumbai

all the "Saam, Daam, Dand, Bhed should be used to change the viewpoint of enemies." is done when you recognise TSP is enemy.

when you have PM who makes statements on TSP being victim of terror, peace process being irreversible (after mumbai bomb attack), siachen being peace park ...what chance is there of:

Our leaders should quell talks of war and then quietly go and abduct Maulana Massod Azhar, Gen. Hamid Gul etc from pakistan soil, call them war criminals and say that they were arrested in New Delhi trying to set off bombs. I am sure that will really make the porks sh!t in their burkhas.

after mumbai bomb attack and ahmedabad attack outlook magazine (biggest supporter of congress in india) had article on intelligence agency begging MMS for permission to hit in Pak. he said he will consider it. even there he was not sure

nothing happened on internal security front and no urgency to even go after SIMI and instead malaegon case was done for election purposes. batla house encounter was spun as attack on IMs

now do you understand how unrealistic you are sounding?

we have heard statement like yours 400 time from so many people, of cold revenge, of TSP has game plan we should hit back in 2040, mythological storie of mahabharata...all that has been discussed and discussed and nothing is done.

this is all shameful make believe indians repeat after each attack.

so nothing will be done even now.
pls just realise the truth nothing will be done and this will go on.

why should MMS take action? he has multiple layer SPG protection for himself and so does his party chief and family. they are safe. they dont travel in bus, or train. they have official procession and full security.

point is, i am sorry to make your hope go away but it is better to acknowledge truth, common citizens life does not matter

Muppalla
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Muppalla » 26 Dec 2008 00:21

Maldives are only a stone throw from Lakshdweep islands. Lakshdweep islands are Muslim majority ( they are the only Muslims with Scheduled Caste status) islands with sunni variety. However they are not assimilated to the mainland sunnis.

Vikram_S
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Vikram_S » 26 Dec 2008 00:31

i am reading the version of JN dixit book on indo-pak relations, and it has huge section on kandahar, posting it here

It is very large otherwise so posting only part about typical pak media reaction and internal Indian Govt deliberation because it gives insight:

unfortunately present congress no longer has people like JN dixit, it has become kleptocracy led by power hungry people with very shallow understanding of national security importance and issue

The reaction of Pakistani public opinion during the hijacking was
indicative of the collective mindset of Pakistani civil society. In the
initial stages, the Pakistani media repeated the Pakistani Government’s
interpretation that the hijacking was organised by Indian intelligence
agencies themselves to embarrass Pakistan before the international
community. Once the plane landed in Kandahar and the demands of the
hijackers became public, there was total silence about the contradictions
between facts as they were emerging and the Musharraf Government’s
initial claims about India being the organiser of the hijacking. Even
more disturbingly, the media and public opinion did not show any
concern about civilian passengers being subjected to threats and trauma
for a full week.

The reaction of the international community to the incident was
equally bemusing. There was wide and daily coverage of the incident
till the hijacking ended, but there was no condemnation of the organisation to which the hijackers belonged. There was no comment on
Pakistan’s resort to covert terrorist acts across international frontiers to
capture the territory of a neighbouring state. Instead the Western media
talked about Jammu and Kashmir being a flashpoint for a conflict in the
context of India’s and Pakistan’s nuclear and missile weapon
capacities.

Reviewing India’s Decisions

After the hijacking ended there was no criticism of the Taliban or the
Government of Pakistan for ensuring the safe escape of the hijackers
and the terrorists released by India.

The reaction was essentially an
exercise in selective impartiality. Having said this, one must
acknowledge that fairly strong messages went from the US and the
Western democracies to the Government of Pakistan and indirectly to
the Taliban to bring the hijacking to an end. There was much criticism
about the manner in which India handled the hijacking incident. The
validity of this criticism needs to be analysed and assessed. Views were
expressed that India should not have succumbed to the demands of the
hijackers, that it should not have allowed IC-814 to take off from
Amritsar airport, that it should have ensured the plane remained
stranded at Dubai airport, that the counter-hijacking action force should
have neutralised the hijacking at Amritsar itself.

The facts should be described first. The decision to deal with the
hijackers and to come to a compromise was taken after extremely tense
discussions in the Cabinet Committee on Security by the minister for
external affairs, and meetings with the prime minister were fraught with
tense emotional protests by the relatives of the hostages. The Rashtriya
Swayamsevak Sangh was firmly opposed to any dealings with the
hijackers. Authoritative sources told me that in the cabinet discussions,
one cabinet minister went to the extent of saying that he smelt an
atmosphere of appeasement in the options being discussed. Home
Minister L.K.Advani agreed to the decision of responding to the
demands of the hijackers only reluctantly.

Could we have prevented the plane from taking off from Amritsar
and Dubai? Judgements based on hindsight are irrelevant. However,
some conclusions are inescapable. There was a lack of coordination in
terms of speed and time between the authorities at Delhi and Amritsar.
The runway was not blocked immediately after the landing of the plane
at Amritsar. The NSG commandos did not scramble into their action operational mode with sufficient speed. The hijackers had enough time
to take off without facing any effective Indian resistance.
As far as the situation in Dubai was concerned, the authorities there
had allowed the plane to land with reluctance and did not wish to get
involved in a violent predicament. In any case, they did not wish to be
participants in resolving the hijacking crisis at Dubai airport, which is a
major civilian air traffic centre. Though they had initially given some
assurances to the US authorities that they would prevent the plane from
taking off, they could not fulfil this promise in the context of impinging
on Dubai’s international credibility as a safe place to travel for tourism
and shopping purposes

Once the plane landed at Kandahar, the question of any effective
action by India became redundant.
India was not even sure how the
Taliban would deal with the hijacking, especially because it did not
have any diplomatic mission in Kabul. The high commission
established initial contacts with the Taliban mission in Islamabad.
Ghanshyam, India’s political consular at Islamabad, proceeded to
Kandahar. He gave the assessment that the Taliban would be willing to
receive an Indian negotiating team. Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh
decided to send a negotiating team led by Vivek Katju, joint secretary
incharge of Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan in the Ministry of External
Affairs. Katju was assisted by officers from the home ministry and
other concerned agencies, Ajit Doval, Hooja and Razdan. It is to this
team that the hijackers conveyed the series of demands, mentioned
earlier in this chapter. The negotiations began with the first contact
made by Ghanshyam with the Taliban on 27 December and ended with
Jaswant Singh’s visit to Kandahar with the terrorists whom the
Government of India had decided to release. The other point of criticism
has been about Jaswant Singh personally going to Kandahar, and
thereby increasing the stature of the hijackers in psychological and
public relations terms. He explained his rationale in the statement to
Parliament: “I decided to go to Kandahar so as to ensure that the
termination of the hijacking, the smooth release and safe return of the
passengers and crew, took place without any last-minute hitch, also that
should the need arise, prompt decisions could be taken on the spot…. My
travel on the same aircraft as the three terrorists was entirely on account
of logistical compulsions brought about by the limited infrastructural
facilities at Kandahar airport.”


The bottomline for examining the options that might have
been exercised was whether India was willing to accept the loss of life
of hostages to convey the critical message that it would not succumb to
terrorist pressures. There are perhaps only two countries that have such
a categorical policy approach on terrorism and hijacking cases: China
and Israel. Since saving the lives of the hostages was the primary
concern, the rest of the actions taken by the Government of India
followed.

Though one wishes the Government of India had responded with
effective action against the hijackers at Amritsar, and then taken an
equally firm stand on putting responsibility on the Taliban, the matter was
dealt with as effectively as feasible.
If this experience heightens India’s
alertness and capacity for real-time response the trauma would have
served a purpose.

What was lamentably contradictory was that the very people who
pressurised the Government to compromise with the hijackers later
joined the bandwagon of criticism. This shows the schizophrenia and
dichotomies from which Indian media and public opinion suffer.


This ofcourse is endemic in democracies, where such opinions have to be
respected, a problem not affecting authoritarian governments, or
governments representing profoundly united public opinion like in Israel.
It is equally worrying that the common people of Pakistan did not react
to the hijacking in a manner influenced by humanitarian considerations.
The attitude of the Pakistani Government was aggressive and
hypocritical. Public sentiments in Pakistan remained prisoner to
emotional and psychological antagonism towards India.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyotindra_Nath_Dixit

Muppalla
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Muppalla » 26 Dec 2008 00:32

Vikram_S wrote:why should MMS take action? he has multiple layer SPG protection for himself and so does his party chief and family. they are safe. they dont travel in bus, or train. they have official procession and full security.

point is, i am sorry to make your hope go away but it is better to acknowledge truth, common citizens life does not matter


That is the fundametal truth of last five years. Mumbai attack got so much attraction because this time the elites of India are hit. There were several terror attacks before and every one of them are ignored as the attacks were on poor people or those who does not have the might to protest. In this case they know they have to make some noise that is way different from the previous noises. Action is somthing that is needed now and we have watch and see if they will do or not. If they do then all the fense sitters will give a way lot credit to UPA. But if in their calculations they think this credit is not electorally worth then they will not do.Period. INC is very smart and they do enything and everything keeping upcoming electoral calculations and it seems war agains terror is not electorally rewarding and there are many ashrafs who will leave them in case serious war against terror and which is what making them wary of taking even a token action. Wait another two weeks, Mumbaikars also will forget and life will be same again.

vera_k
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby vera_k » 26 Dec 2008 00:53

Vikram_S wrote:point is, i am sorry to make your hope go away but it is better to acknowledge truth, common citizens life does not matter


Ah, but the life of what passes for the elite does matter in terms of good PR value for the perps. I hope the terrorists learn that the best way to get attention for their cause while minimizing the chance of any action is to keep going after the elite rather than the random bombings and CST style attacks :twisted: .

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Akshut » 26 Dec 2008 01:03

Gangajal movie has a dialogue:- 'Jis jagah ke jaise log hote hain, unko vaisa hi prashasan milta hai'

So the basic line is if we subtract 1600 BRF members, then rest of 110 crore people deserve this govt. and this govt.'s dismal response. After all we are the peopple who have elected people like Mayawati's MLA who have balls to kill a civil Engineer. Gandhian policy was good at that time because British were better compared to their military hardware, and would have have been hard for us to fight with force against them. But do we need all this peace crap for the porkis whom we can bone within hours.

But again 'Jis jagah ke jaise log hote hain, unko vaisa hi prashasan milta hai'

Dhanyavaad.

Vikram_S
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Postby Vikram_S » 26 Dec 2008 01:05

vera i am afraid next attack will be on corporate/IT india and ultimately a few more attacks after that will be WMD

in first attack (corp/IT) many will die because this Govt has not drawn a line and refuses to understand nature of TSP


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