Indian Response to Terrorism

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Dec 2008 01:06

geo tv-
Police seizes 400 kg explosives in Islamabad

Updated at: 2034 PST, Thursday, December 25, 2008
Police seizes 400 kg explosives in Islamabad ISLAMABAD: Islamabad police has seized 400 kilograms of explosives along with detonators and arrested 10 persons from a house in Karal area.

Interrogation from the arrested is underway, said SP East Islamabad Saqib Sultan while addressing press conference.

He termed the recovery of such a large quantity of explosives as a sign of alarm, saying these explosives were to be used in a major act of terror.

Saqib Sultan said investigation is being conducted as to how such a big quantity of explosives was transported into the city.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Dec 2008 01:09

Singha wrote:geo tv-
Police seizes 400 kg explosives in Islamabad

Updated at: 2034 PST, Thursday, December 25, 2008
Police seizes 400 kg explosives in Islamabad ISLAMABAD: Islamabad police has seized 400 kilograms of explosives along with detonators and arrested 10 persons from a house in Karal area.

Interrogation from the arrested is underway, said SP East Islamabad Saqib Sultan while addressing press conference.

He termed the recovery of such a large quantity of explosives as a sign of alarm, saying these explosives were to be used in a major act of terror.

Saqib Sultan said investigation is being conducted as to how such a big quantity of explosives was transported into the city.

Surprised that they do not have an Indian link so far!

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 26 Dec 2008 01:24

^^^^ No, they are pointing Indian links to it.. I read on defence.pk, some of their news channels are linking it to RAW.....

It's like every illegal thing in pakiland is due to RAW, i guess even illegal births.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Dec 2008 01:25

brihaspati wrote:NRaoji,
This is significant not because of what it advises but where the advice is coming from:

Maldives advising India: Terrorists may recruit pirates: Maldives
Article 9, Section D of the new Maldives Constitution ratified on August 9, 2008 states that “a non-Muslim may not become a citizen of the Maldives.” In addition to denying non-Muslims citizenship, the new constitution favors Sunni Islam over other forms of Islam, and establishes many aspects of Sharia law in the Maldives and limits the freedom of expression and thought to “manners” which are “not contrary to a tenet of Islam.” King Kaliminja who was previously a Buddhist, became Sultan Dharmas Mohamed Ibn Abdulla (probably out of political rivalry with Sri Lanka and trade related Arabian sea politics around 1153). During the next thirteen years of his reign he set about introducing Islamic law throughout the islands before sailing away on a pilgrimage to Mecca, never to be heard of again. Almost sixty years elapsed before the conversion to Islam was complete. According to the Isdhoo loamaafaana, the next King, who came to power in AD 1179, sent an expedition to the southern island of Dhabidhoo in Laamu Atoll to bring the Buddhists to heel. "The Great King, Srimat Gadanaditya, an ornament to the Lunar Dynasty, resplendent as gold, firm as an Asala [stone pillar], defender of the entire hundred thousand of islands, brilliant as the sun, moon and stars, virtuous in every manner, lord of love, mine of jewels, adorned with a crown set with gems, - On the fourth year of his becoming the sole monarch he, having destroyed the shrine erected previously by the infidel Kings of Dhanbidu, uprooted the Buddha images, and caused the infidel Kings to read the Shahadat."

Given this history, and the increasing Shriatization, Maldives is ideally placed geographically with its numerous islands to provide HR for ops against India. I am not sure the statement about prirates is a diplomatic pre-emptive coverup.

There is a god after all.
Not to worry boss.
Soon these sunni gentlemen will be scouting around for a new homeland. In wet sunni chaddies.
Due to global warming their paradise on earth is soon to be inundated.

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/ ... -new-home/

November 11, 2008, 12:24 pm
Maldive Islanders to Save for a New Home
By Andrew C. Revkin

In a country of 1,200 islands, sailing skills come early. (Credit: Andrew C. Revkin)

The Maldives, a tenuous chain of 1,200 islets southwest of Sri Lanka best known for its spectacular reef-rimmed lagoons, is considered one of the world’s most vulnerable countries in the face of rising sea levels in a warming world. I have a short article in today’s paper on how the Maldives, under its first democratically elected president, will establish what amounts to a global warming relocation fund using revenue from tourism. The idea would be to buy land elsewhere as a new home for the country’s 400,000 citizens should the worst-case scenarios play out.

Some of the atolls in the Maldives. (Credit: NASA/ GSFC
/METI /ERSDAC /JAROS)

For the moment, it relies on sea walls, built with money from Japan, to protect its one-square-mile capital, Malé, which constitutes the world’s most densely populated island. Population growth — taking the Maldives from 200,000 to nearly 400,000 people in just 20 years — is make the real estate problem worse.

The Maldive islanders’ long-term investment in a relocation fund seems smart given the nature of the climate problem. While the near-term rate of sea-level rise remains uncertain, the long-term picture of rising seas in a warming world is crystal clear. The plan reminds me of Abu Dhabi’s investment in a center for energy research — the cornerstone of a nonpolluting car-free “city” in the desert — as a means of building its post-oil economy, even as oil still flows from the ground.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ET_ ... 701101.cms

Maldives sinking? Searches for a new home
11 Nov 2008, 2121 hrs IST, IANS

MALE: Fears of global warming are haunting the Maldives with its new

president indicating that the Indian Ocean island country will not shy
away
from buying "land somewhere" that could act as an "insurance" against global warming that could submerge some of the world's lowest-lying islands.

"We can do nothing to stop climate change on our own and so we have to buy land elsewhere," said Mohamed Nasheed, also known as Anni, a former political prisoner who took power Tuesday after a swearing-in ceremony in the Maldivian capital.

"It's an insurance policy for the worst possible outcome. After all, the Israelis (began by buying) land in Palestine," he said.

With the UN conjuring up a grim forecast saying the seas are likely to rise by up to 59 centimetres by 2100 due to global warming, Nasheed is planning to prepare his country for this possible catastrophe and said he has already taken up the issue with some countries and found them to be "receptive".

Most parts of the Maldives, known for its luxury resorts and pristine sun-blessed beaches, are barely three feet above water. If the sea levels rise even marginally, it could submerge large parts of the archipelago.

"We do not want to leave the Maldives, but we also do not want to be climate refugees living in tents for decades," he stressed.

He said Sri Lanka and India could be possible choices because of near similar cultures, cuisines and climate. Australia is also on the list of probables.

However, the issue did not figure in the discussion between Nasheed and visiting Indian Vice-President Hamid Ansari.

"The reports appear far-fetched. There is a lot of speculation. The issue did not come up for discussion at all," India's High Commissioner to the Maldives A.K. Pandey said.

In an interview to BBC, Nasheed's spokesman Ibrahim Hussein Zaki underlined that the new government had to take action as "any sea level rise could have a devastating effect on the people of the Maldives and their very survival".

The Maldives was one of the founding members of the Alliance of Small Island States, which since 1992 has been asking the world's industrialized countries to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases that lead to rising temperatures.

The vulnerability of the Maldives to flooding came to the fore when the 2004 tsunami wreaked havoc to the nation's tourist-centric economy and threatened to submerge many islands.

Malé, the world's most densely populated town crammed into a stretch of a couple of kilometres, is ringed by sea walls, built with assistance from Japan.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Dec 2008 01:27

I was going to type just you wait but the pakis are quick at this kind of thing ! it doesn't tax their brain (or what passes for one in pakiland) at all.

OT : akshut what are you doing at RB ? PP is good to you ?

BSR Murthy · Post by **BSR Murthy** » 26 Dec 2008 01:29

Today finally I have come to the sad realization that India is a failed state.
No point in harping about Indian response to terrorism (or any other problem for that matter).

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Dec 2008 01:38

Rahul M wrote:I was going to type just you wait but the pakis are quick at this kind of thing ! it doesn't tax their brain (or what passes for one in pakiland) at all.

OT : akshut what are you doing at RB ? PP is good to you ?

Dudes,
Ever had a disagreement with a beard autoriksha driver in Bangalore?
Gilani's fulminations and intellectual discourses have the same edifying quality.
The little shit comes across as a bigger hijra than even our own mms.
Pakiland has a huge victim hood mentality. They are served well by their rabid media.
Now they just have to find nine more "shuklas" to up the ante

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 26 Dec 2008 01:44

Rahul M wrote:
OT : akshut what are you doing at RB ? PP is good to you ?

Oh i got it.... No she just called me to look after the matters.... She is out on the tour to her native village..... Just sitting and trying to figure out how to do a coup of this govt. and become a dictator.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Dec 2008 01:46

time to wind up this useless thread and get back to more practical matters like cricket and cameras. I am out of here.

pls make sure to mail a old chappal to our PMO when time permits.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 26 Dec 2008 01:47

Vikram_S wrote:vera i am afraid next attack will be on corporate/IT india and ultimately a few more attacks after that will be WMD

I read here that the corp/IT folks stopped a response during Parakram. So in terms of enabling a response it's best if the terrorists go after them. Yes, I came around to realizing that WMD of some form is probably inevitable given the lack of proactive prevention measures.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Dec 2008 01:49

since you got the message.....

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 26 Dec 2008 01:52

IT companies are indeed on the scanner of ISI. Heard hamid gul( former ISI head ) saying that if war breaks out then they will turn the silicon valley(bengaluru) into a cloud of smoke. So their proxy war is on, and i guess next target is going somewhere there, while our govt. and police have some peg and leg before bed.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 26 Dec 2008 03:23

Mumbai attack key to Pak Army comeback plot

Mumbai attack key to Pak Army comeback plot
Pranab Dhal Samanta

New Delhi: New Delhi is fast coming to the conclusion that the Terror attacks in Mumbai had the sanction of the highest levels in the Pakistan Army given the way events are unfolding one month on.

While Indian suspicion was always along these lines, sources said, the ease with which the Pak Army has moved from one plan to the other shows a clear objective of ratcheting up the “security threat” on its borders with India to achieve a combination of aims.

According to the Indian assessment, the first objective was to tell the West that it cannot take for granted the Pak Army’s presence in NWFP and FATA. Second, to reinstate the institutional credibility of the military in Pakistan after the exit of Pervez Musharraf. And, third, to clearly reassert the military’s supremacy over the civilian Government on security issues.

On all three counts, the Pakistan Army has made steady, tangible progress since the Mumbai attacks.

And has got the political establishment to promptly fall in line — witness the quick climbdown by Nawaz Sharif on Ajmal Kasab’s Pak origin and yesterday’s Pakistan National Assembly Resolution.

It said that the country was with its armed forces to defend “Pakistan’s security interests at all costs,” a sharp contrast to its October resolution after the Islamabad Marriott bombing in which it referred to “dictatorial regimes (that) pursued policies aimed at perpetuating their own power at the cost of national interest”. And that Pak territory “shall not be used for any kind of attacks on other countries.”

This time, however, through an orchestrated propaganda campaign, the focus in Pakistan has shifted from the role of Pak-based terrorist groups in the Mumbai attack to one of defending Pakistan that has obfuscated the facts and merits of India’s case.

Not just that, the situation has allowed Pak diplomacy to reinvigorate itself and frame the issue in Indo-Pak terms. Any defining success on this front would be a blow to the gains India has made on the foreign policy front in the past few years.

It’s clear, therefore, to New Delhi that the Mumbai attack had larger strategic objectives that have become more explicit now than they were even in the first week of December. And, hence, would require a strategic response at every level. From an Indian standpoint, sources said, it’s also certain that for all the risk it involves, the Pakistan Army sees gains out of provoking India. The first attempt was the attack on Indian Embassy, Kabul, where again clear evidence surfaced of orders being given from Pak territory. A few months later, the daring Mumbai attack with a definite intent to provoke India did not draw a hasty response from New Delhi. However, sources said, this time the Pak Army seemed to have worked out the propaganda strategy as a back-up and that is now on display.

What’s more important for India, sources said, is that its restraint is no assurance against further attacks. On the contrary, officials said, the possibility remains high as long as India is not sufficiently provoked.

It’s learnt that to take its diplomatic offensive against Pakistan to the “next level,” India is waiting for the election process in Jammu and Kashmir — where counting is scheduled for December 28 — to get over. This is crucial given the success story of a record turnout in the Valley and an admission by separatists that they misread the political signals.

With the US Administration in a state of transition, India does not expect any major shifts until Barack Obama takes over on January 20. However, sources said, India still hopes that the Bush Administration moves on the results from the FBI investigations and follows the trail leading into Pakistan. Meanwhile, the US has asked Pakistan to tone down the war rhetoric and signs of it were visible in Pakistan PM Yousuf Raza Gilani’s address on Benazir Bhutto’s first death anniversary but this was only complicated by yesterday’s Pakistan National Assembly Resolution.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 26 Dec 2008 03:38

--duplicate--

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 26 Dec 2008 03:40

The Newshour Debate 'Pak cranks up war machinery' Part I

The Newshour Debate 'Pak cranks up war machinery' Part II

Muns · Post by **Muns** » 26 Dec 2008 04:18

Let me add to some of the air here, if anything i'll try and get it off my head and onto a page.
It's seems simple enough, we've been venting for so long and we've reached a stage where We Must Strike...and why :

Will pakistan close the camps?

a) In the great game we are a frontline state of jehadi terrorism and conversion. This ideal won't end because we can engage in 'talks', political bargaining and the much called on 'intense' pressure we keep applying. We can bankrupt the state, cause it to have billions of dollars in debt and strangle it's economy. Pakistan can survive. It'll be funded by the Saudi's and Americans. The people of pakistan can live on roots and shoots but at the end the Elite class will still hold the money and drive hoards of hungry illiterates towards the madrassahs for Islamist Jehadi training towards their war in Infidel India. The ultimate aim is to bleed India through constant war and hopefully expand on islamist conversion. Hence they will never close the camps.

What must India do?

b) To break the constant cycle of innocent civilians being killed in India, we have to strike pakistan. Tit of tat bomb explosions are feel good symbols to think we have a measure of control. What needs to happen is to sound the alarm of Wahhabist Islamist expansion and attack pakistan on multiple fronts. Pakistan war ability must be broken down and with that the important idea by pakistanis that pakistanis are undefeatable will come to a halt. Vast tracts of land in pakistan are sparsely populated. Gaining vast tracts in the thar and recovering Pok will seek to break the martial idea by the pakistanis and hopefully show them that the infidel Indians will not predictably and consistantly lie down. Take a look at the list of terrorist attack thread folks...how many more pictures of orphans and widows etc must we allow ourselves to see.

Are we ready for a war?

c) Don't we need AWACS? What about INS vikramaditya? Fact is weapons delivery and operationalization takes time in the armed forces. What arrives tomorrow will still need the time to incorporate it into the large orbat in an effective manner. From Parakram 6 years ago, think of what we have managed to get done.

80+ Sukhois mki
Dhruvs 100+
Upgraded Jags 32+
40 Mig 27s upg
120 bisons
Pinaka and Smerch
Testing of the ABM
etc the list is long. Just the Bisons alone are more than enough to wipe out the whole PAF. What more time do we need? how many more must die while we wait on for an AWACS or the like. The firepower is there now. What lacks is the will to use it.

Why attack now? We've been attacked before?

Fact is, we should have attacked a long time ago. With each attack our tolerance for violent bloodshed has increased. Learned helplessness is the diagnosis and the pakis know it. They keep sending suicide jehadi missions and while only thousands die...the psyche of a nation goes into a meltdown. A perfect place to spread ideas of strength...perhaps in a different religion or god.
Take a look at the list of terror attacks from pakistan to us. The Mumbai attacks though are different...10 gunmen calmly got off a boat and shot 180+ civilians in the streets with automatic weapons. If accept this, we are a doomed civilisation...a response is necessary whatever the costs.
I look at a scene from the Mahabharat...posioning Bhim, the Wax house etc were all atrocities that should have had Duryodhan punished. What finally did it was the insult of draupadi's disrobing. This is our insult that must be avenged....we've tried peace and had to pay with the lives of innocents. WE MUST ACT!

sonabh · Post by **sonabh** » 26 Dec 2008 04:31

soon the govt's statements would be mellowed down (if they arent already lol)

then obama bhai comes and says peace-peace. perhaps will we have another summit at say pune?

then a few months down the line, back to business for let/isi/tspa

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 26 Dec 2008 04:42

India will not attack any wild tribals in Muridke or Muzzafarabad.

The list of 5000 targets in Pakistan includes all 15 industrial plants and 4985 generals, wives, concubines and 'pets'.

It will include bunker buster attacks on ISI headquarters and Sargodha. CIA and Mossad as well as RAW are contributing real time GPS fixes on Beg, Gul, Corps commanders, ISI handlers. The Indians are not wasting good saltpeter on some beards. Pakistani sisters are fecund. More beards will be bred.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 26 Dec 2008 04:43

Con-graze party working day and night to wriggle out of this problem. Poor MMS, he is still having sleepless nights, Again. Paki's ain't helping him either. Rhetoric gone too far, difficult to get out, can they ?

sonabh wrote:soon the govt's statements would be mellowed down (if they arent already lol)

then obama bhai comes and says peace-peace. perhaps will we have another summit at say pune?

then a few months down the line, back to business for let/isi/tspa

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 26 Dec 2008 04:56

vera

why do defenseless corporate/IT people deserve to get killed because some bigshot was scared of bottom line.

my point is that corp/IT are like CST station which are easy target.

big shot will anyway not care since they are big shot and abroad or in HQ with many people to protect them.

and why killing of IT people will enable response when so far nothing has enabled response from this impotent Govt?

even then sonia maino and rahul baba have SPG cover so why will she care

vera k wrote: I read here that the corp/IT folks stopped a response during Parakram. So in terms of enabling a response it's best if the terrorists go after them. Yes, I came around to realizing that WMD of some form is probably inevitable given the lack of proactive prevention measures.

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 26 Dec 2008 05:05

chidambaram mail to states is like 7th standard suggestion. even most basic of suggestion talked about on this forum is more aware and detail.

this is last straw of "faith" in so called GOI which people are told is super competent and comes up with decades of experience. in fact it is nothing like that.

on one reading of that mail, it is clear this Govt did not even care to go for most basic of security measures on taking power and security was nowhere on mind. did idiots forget about parliament attack, akshardham.

i think these people thought that all that terror was because it was hindu right BJP in power and since they were in power, it would automatic be ok.

they have broken all basic security measures like POTA, stopped all previous Govt pushed for defence modernisation plan and were then thinking they are great rulers.

so called bureacrats who are backbone of GOI are also as bad. in recent day we have seen level to which this group is capable in india. mayawati hafta case, it is police chief and administrative people who are making excuse for her. and with no shame.

so this UPA combination of WKK kissers and third rate bureacracy has sold the nation cheaply. so called NSA is busy doing politicians work for his masters. it is no surprise when ATS should have been protecting mumbai they were going for malegoan to protect masters election results and who knows how many cases like this have been done.

this mail by PC is all last minute a$$ covering like asking for state govt to move criminals away from capitals. as if that can be accomplished by january when they are meeting. this is just so that if next attack occurs chidambaram can play blame game and say i sent mail to state governments. as if commandos can be formed in 1 month and put to alert at every place.

cannot even spit on these leaders for their incompetence and shamlessness.

now even excuse of communist pressure is not there to protect them.

truly Divine must save india because these swine will not save but break india.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 26 Dec 2008 05:09

KSubramanian wrote:If the govt is going to take action, it bloody well wont announce it from the rooftops.
Understand... put the various news in perspective... what MMS said was "war is not the issue, the issue is terrorism"
Please read between the lines, he never said war is not an option. I agree that revenge is a dish that is best served cold.

Unfortunately the only thing we have got till date from this UPA govt are lines!
Obtuse lines, crossing lines, connected lines, dotted lines, hashed lines and crooked lines.
Not once have we got straight, upright, honest, angry, aggressive, actionable lines!

And Mr MMS, War is an issue! Please make it an issue if it isn't!
With every passing day my belief gets stronger that 'India is a giant ruled by spineless pygmies', although one has not seen any characteristics of a giant either.
(Every time i speak with people at work, all i get are couldn't care less responses.)

Perhaps they (UPA) read that the meek shall inherit the earth, and promptly they turned meek & servile!

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 26 Dec 2008 05:18

adityam:Perhaps they (UPA) read that the meek shall inherit the earth, and promptly they turned meek & servile!

sir this was done on purpose so that most meek and servile non threatening leadership would be in power for future grace of rahul baba.

how many year has rahul baba worked to put food on the plate of a family to be next PM of india? (he has said: "i dont mind being the PM of india" ---> he does not mind being the PM of india, just see the attitude)

in any country would incompetent like shivraj patil be Home Minister despite so many attacks? would such spineless wonder like MMS be PM (siachen peace park, pak is victim of terror) who is totally unaware of pak sponsored terror in india?!?

these people were choosen so that they were totally non threatening to SG and RGs power base at party.

how will they stand up for country when they cannot even stand up for own selves within the party??

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 26 Dec 2008 05:22

As famous phrase is there:

Conversation between German generals Erich Ludendorff and Max Hoffmann.

Ludendorff: The English soldiers fight like lions.
Hoffmann: True. But don't we know that they are lions led by donkeys.

of course the indian public who elected these donkeys are also to blame and gave up lion status for electing donkeys.

somebody said it best, this Govt will rattle the soldier sword till april when election occurs and everything is forgotten.

from pakistani point of view:

f Alexander the Great’s proclamation, 'I am never afraid of an army of Lions led into battle by a Lamb. I fear more the army of Lambs who have a Lion to lead them.'”

of course they will laugh at india

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 26 Dec 2008 05:25

Rishi wrote:http://specials.rediff.com/news/2008/de ... letter.pdf

HM's letter to CMs

Dear Chief Minister,
(vi)The State capital and all other major cities/towns, especially cities with municipal corporations, should be rid of;
(a) mafia gangs operating In the city/town;
(b) extortion gangs;
(c) land sharks; and
(d) loan sharks.

The DGP/CoP/SP concerned should draw up a plan to identify these gangs/sharks and send a clear message to them that they should leave the city/town immediately. The police know how to carry out thiS task. After a few days, a determined drive should be launched to apprehend

With warm regards,
Yours sincerely,
{P Chidambaram}

Why should they be allowed to leave towns & hide in villages?? Even before they formulated action, they ensured them a safe passage!

This UPA govt moves in mysterious ways!

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 26 Dec 2008 05:26

62 pages over, D + 30 days almost over, Dec 26th almost over.......

I guess if the British tried to rule India one more time, it would be very easy to do it. I always wondered why we were GUBOed by many invaders (not all of them) and I think with this Indian "response" I have gotten my answer.

I hope that my India would remain united until the day I die... it would be too painful to see these spineless chimp politicians destroy the dream(which they already are doing in the earnest)

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 26 Dec 2008 05:45

Singha wrote:time to wind up this useless thread and get back to more practical matters like cricket and cameras. I am out of here.
pls make sure to mail a old chappal to our PMO when time permits.

I had similar sentiments of mailing something to pmo.
Not a chapal but coffee, asking them to wake up & smell the coffee!

Anyways, while UPA dithered & lied, Pak got its act in order!
'Impose economic sanctions against India'
http://timesnow.tv/Newsdtls.aspx?NewsID=24527

"...Pakistan's national assembly in fact has passed a resolution along these lines and is very keen that Zardari acts on the collective will of the House..."

Our trade with Pak is 1.5 billion $, we must send WKK Kuldeep nayar to salvage use from this bankruptcy!

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 26 Dec 2008 06:27

Another report here, saying that the Dilli billis are declawed and clueless.

Report says that Shri FM called the chinese to try and influence the Pakis. Duh...

And finally this:

The Indian establishment has not set any “deadlines” so far, sources said, revealing that the most frequently used phrase in South Block these days was “What is to be done?” Whether it is a plaintive cry or reflects Leninist resoluteness remains, for the moment, unclear.

http://telegraphindia.com/1081226/jsp/f ... 303840.jsp

RajaJi · Post by **RajaJi** » 26 Dec 2008 06:34

jrjrao wrote:Another report here, saying that the Dilli billis are declawed and clueless.

Report says that Shri FM called the chinese to try and influence the Pakis. Duh...

And finally this:
The Indian establishment has not set any “deadlines” so far, sources said, revealing that the most frequently used phrase in South Block these days was “What is to be done?” Whether it is a plaintive cry or reflects Leninist resoluteness remains, for the moment, unclear.
http://telegraphindia.com/1081226/jsp/f ... 303840.jsp

GoI is just making a mockery of itself. I'm feeling ashamed to be an Indian. These people have lost all self respect.

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 26 Dec 2008 06:36

The Indian establishment has not set any “deadlines” so far, sources said, revealing that the most frequently used phrase in South Block these days was “What is to be done?” Whether it is a plaintive cry or reflects Leninist resoluteness remains, for the moment, unclear.

impotent leaders leading impotent babus
cannot defend own people cannot prepare for anything

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 26 Dec 2008 06:41

At least test porki air defences, troop positions and the like with intrusions, arty and the like.

And GoI could at least cloak all these pleading for phoren permission under wrapped the official secrets act. I for one would'nt petition RTI to know the details.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 26 Dec 2008 06:54

India will not attack any wild tribals in Muridke or Muzzafarabad.

The list of 5000 targets in Pakistan includes all 15 industrial plants and 4985 generals, wives, concubines and 'pets'.

It will include bunker buster attacks on ISI headquarters and Sargodha. CIA and Mossad as well as RAW are contributing real time GPS fixes on Beg, Gul, Corps commanders, ISI handlers. The Indians are not wasting good saltpeter on some beards. Pakistani sisters are fecund. More beards will be bred.

A Re-Lie-able source, speaking on condition of anonymity because she is not authorized to speak to the media but is doing it anyway, told me that the target list is entirely consisting of poo-poo places. This is where the Pakistan General Staff are expected to be hiding.

Unfortunately the retaliation is also expected to target where the present GOI will be "going". It is feared that this will seriously impact agriculture. That target list is mostly fields because there are so few functioning bathrooms in India.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Dec 2008 06:57

Vikram_S wrote:
The Indian establishment has not set any “deadlines” so far, sources said, revealing that the most frequently used phrase in South Block these days was “What is to be done?” Whether it is a plaintive cry or reflects Leninist resoluteness remains, for the moment, unclear.
impotent leaders leading impotent babus
cannot defend own people cannot prepare for anything

A babu can never be a leader as he is trained to find path of least resisitance. Because of the intensive selection process there is an implicit trust the babucracy that it will deliver. the question is deliver to whom? by theri training they are trained to deliver to the leaders. No ifs and buts.

In the UPA the worst thing is former babus were made leaders-MMS on downards. They all claim to thier experience as babus as a medal of honor.
Once a leader forms his plan the babus will deliver. Its too much to expect them to also lead.

BTW, the biggest problem is the prima donnas with midget size minds who are where they are because of their group affliations and not by the dint of their efforts.

Reading Kanchan Gupta's wrtieup about what happened in Kanadahr and the write up by Sishir gupta on what happened in Mumbai shows the systemic failure due to heirarchial structures built in the system of governement. IB's Haldar thinks no need to inform Mumbai Police about the ship as they dont have maritime interdiction assets. What about alerting their shore assets in case they get thru?
And he will get honorable retirement as its other babus who sit to decide on that.

Marcos want written authorization to shoot terrorists!

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 26 Dec 2008 06:59

vsudhir

india has first rate military serving third rate public who elect fifth rate politician to rule military and appoint fourth rate babus as overseers

if military rule happens indian public will ensure military is also third rate quickly

so with such public (who also vote for laloo prasad and hafta rani mayawati), what are you expecting? laloo and mayawati type people will do anything for money and they are elected.

so called elite are only interested in business and listen to defence experts like aamir khan or shahrukh khan or shabana azmi. and will cry communaaaaaalll if peaceful SIMI activist are arrested.

i think writing is on the wall, either die like dogs in secular, gandhi loving, peaceful india, or if you are smart, leave the country. or best become politician to get SPG cover for whole family and can loot the idiot public 24 hours.

unfortunately, most of us are such dumb idiot we are still in first category (die like dogs category) out of foolish faith in indian system (which make us the biggest idiot).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Dec 2008 07:18

geo tv - honorary paki rubs it in.

Brzezinski, an Obama supporter, was asked as to what the president-elect’s administration could do to help the two countries come closer in the wake of tense South Asian situation ensuing from Mumbai attacks.

The former top official in the Jimmy Carter Administration, who has been consulted by Obama on security matters, also pointed out the pathetic state of Muslims in India as a factor contributing to tension-ridden South Asian scenario.

“And, also it is related to the fact that great many Muslims in India are very underprivileged and don’t have a share of the sort of Indian development growth and all of that. So there is a lot of residual resentment among the 140 or so million Muslims in India.”

Washington, he said, has to urge restraint on both sides. He said while India may have an edge in the case of war “but India could blow itself up.”

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 26 Dec 2008 07:22

ramana wrote:A babu can never be a leader as he is trained to find path of least resisitance. Because of the intensive selection process there is an implicit trust the babucracy that it will deliver. the question is deliver to whom? by theri training they are trained to deliver to the leaders. No ifs and buts.

In the UPA the worst thing is former babus were made leaders-MMS on downards. They all claim to thier experience as babus as a medal of honor.
Once a leader forms his plan the babus will deliver. Its too much to expect them to also lead.

BTW, the biggest problem is the prima donnas with midget size minds who are where they are because of their group affliations and not by the dint of their efforts.

Reading Kanchan Gupta's wrtieup about what happened in Kanadahr and the write up by Sishir gupta on what happened in Mumbai shows the systemic failure due to heirarchial structures built in the system of governement. IB's Haldar thinks no need to inform Mumbai Police about the ship as they dont have maritime interdiction assets. What about alerting their shore assets in case they get thru?
And he will get honorable retirement as its other babus who sit to decide on that.

Marcos want written authorization to shoot terrorists!

ramana

you are correct about the bold part.

i will be very frank.

my feeling is that entire babu structure is rotten from within, top downwards and bottom upwards.

1.either they want money --- see UP case of mayawati defense from babus and IPS people when a PWD engineer is beaten to death for not giving hafta

2.or babus are JNU type WKK fool who are more into left and pakistan is our brother theories ---> many example of babu reality has been coming out during UPA rule.

see lakshmic post also confirming it. shame is that so many indians have died and these shameless babus are still not willing to let go of their nehru idealogy bull sh*t

So:

first type of babus are useless. they are so corrupt they will join hands with dawood or whoever and finally emigrate because children are aborad. so let us leave them.

second case is worse because they are running things.

they are ZERO in national security because they do not believe in national security!!!
they are worthless people who gladly watch cultural events to promote "peace" and do not have the iron spine needed to wage non stop war without stop.

remaining babus who are aware of the need to fight are kicked out of system or left to wail on blogposts (like all those now crying in desparation).

even otherwise these ex babu are also still not hardcore fanatics about security (and at this time that is the type that is needed). when murthy from BRF made an interview some of these babus were calling him names saying he is NRI and anti Islam.

how do you expect these jokers to fight the TSP state which is all about islam?

india needs total ruthless amoral and at all cost brutal babus and leaders willing to spill pakistani blood in rivers to protect india.

these people are too busy watching bulla ki jaana at JNU cultrual center to protect india.

what is even more worse is that all the medium nationalist babu types are also sidelined. something is better than nothing, but even that is not there in current UPA.

first thing UPA did when in power was to kill POTA. but they did not replace with other law. cursory treatment of defence issue also showed they have no interest in military.
malegaon and pay commission problem also showed desire to cut army to lower levels (UPA wanted weapon to use against BJP, babus jumped on bandwagon because they could cut military to proper level and show military its "aukaat" or place)

so these babus are so useless they will not even use media or any method to make UPA fall in line on national security. they are out and out for personal gain and to get more money from pay commission or to show they are in control.

this is because babus are protected from public pressure. i think there should be some mechanism now to hold babus also responsible and kick thier butts for failing india.

first to be hit should be entire maha police brass and top bureacracy for malegaon and bombay cases. it will teach them good lesson that sucking upto political party in power is secondary, first is protecting the people --> primary job. if these fellows cannot do that they do not deserve power or sanctity of GOI job and pension.

second is to now kick all those fools who are coming from JNU into IAS out of IAS. i have read JNU contributes huge % to IAS. these people are almost all fifth column when it comes to national security. entire IAS is top to bottom filled with left and has to be culled.

third, all so called human rights activist should be broken off in terms of ties with Govt. they have no business running parallel Govt or advising Govt. this nexus of teesta type and GOI has to be broken.

GOI has zero faith because it has been corrupted. it needs to be cleaned out top to bottom beginning with babus.

babus need to realize that just playing supporter of politicians will not protect them from failure.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Dec 2008 07:34

RaviBg wrote:Mumbai attack key to Pak Army comeback plot

I would tend to go with this theory.

Pakistan is (as most people know) in a spot of bother. The only thing that has ever united Pakistanis is fear of "Hindu domination" - which is the Pakistani euphemism for anything Indian. Pakistani look back to 1965 with nostalgia - and recall that as a time when Pakistan stood united. Opposing India, or the fear of being crushed by India is the best unifying force that Pakistan can get.

Now why would the Pakistani establishment want some "unifying factor" in 2008? What is the need for unifying Pakistan in 2008? You can address this question with an analogy.

Why would you want to go into a toilet, shed your pants and sit on the potty? You would do it because you need to crap. Not because you are hungry or sleepy.

If Pakistan is looking for an India excuse for "unity" there has to be hot war with India.

Unless Pakistan actually attacks India, and battles start being fought within Indian soil, I am certain that India will not give them war at this time. Be that as it may - what Pakistan is trying to achieve is to try and put an end to the Pakistani versus Islam conflict that is going on in FATA/Waziristan. That is why every Paki commentator is so shrill about how the Taliban "will fight with them. The meaning s that those talibunnies are currently NOT with them and they need to get them united again.

I am not concerned about the Indian govenrments tactics right now. they will probably do what needs to be done and will do it well. i see no point in attacking those 5000 targets in Pakistan until i see a few more things happening in India - because attacking those 5000 targets will be like putting laxative in the toilet bowl without even needing to crap. I will explain my skatological analogy.

India needs a coherent Pakistan policy that recognizes that Pakistan is a problem failed/failing state
India needs widespread acknowledgement at governmental and policymaking level that Pakistani policy is to hit and bleed India. There is no love for India. There is no desire for peace. Therefore cultural, economic and sporting links are of no use. These only offer and advantage to Pakistan to recover and get back to its normal tricks.
After this crisis is over the Indian government and babus must not declare the problem as solved.The Pakistan problem cannot be solved easily.
There has to be open and frank acknowledgement that the Pakistan problem is inextricably linked with the idea of Islamic extremism and islamic dominance. There areIslamic groups in Pakistan that are fighting a religious war - an Islamic jihad. Nothing secular about this. Secularism cannot "solve" armed Islamic militias. The Pakistan army and establishment are hand in glove with the Islamic jihad forces as long as those forces can be used against India. Idiotic Indians who howl about secularism need to have this driven down their throats.
THERE IS A RELIGIOUS WAR IN PROGRESS. Islamic forces are trying to overrun Pakistan, and Pakistan is half with them and half against them. If the Indian Government and Indian Babus do not recognize this and acknowledge this as a long term problem we will not have a solution at all - not even in the long term

Unless we have a long term change of focus at the governmental level we cannot do anything about Pakistan

Let me quote from the first chapter of my own freely downloadable e-book on BR: Pakistan Failed State
From Page 12, Chapter 1 "Why Pakistan?"

And while these figures get worse, a quick comparison of
the Pakistani armed forces and the Indian armed forces is
illustrative of what the two countries have been doing
since Independence. With India having a population that
is seven times as big as that of Pakistan, the Indian
army should have been at least three or four times the
size of the Pakistan army. But that is not the case; the
Indian army is less than one and a half times as big as
the Pakistani army. That is because, since independence
India has spent relatively more on development and less
on defence while Pakistan has spent almost everything on
arms and very little on development.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 26 Dec 2008 07:38

Was some one upset that there is shortage of balls in Nai Delhi leadership?

Folks let us be realistic

1) Our GOI is not for Indians it still works for East India Company
2) Union Ministry is full of Criminals (right from PM to state Ministers)
3) Our MPs are criminals
4) Our babus work for criminals ( Taking a bribe or proposing a bribe is a crime, breaking Airport rules is a crime)
5) Our military leaders are completely out of touch with realties of the ground situation ( like MARCOS asking for written instructions and indeminity from any situation)

The lack of simple co ordination between the protecting agencies of GOI is not at all inspiring any confidence in the population of India.

(yes there are individuals in NSG BSF CSIF etc etc who are ready to die for country, but they dont have to if they had iota of common sense, we dont need posthemous heros we want living heros, who shoot down and huntdown terrorists or enemies).
6) We are super duper analysts to do wonderful deductive logical situations and scenarios all post facto never pro active.
7) WE are so DUMB that we are worried TSP (so called) democratic rulers will kicked out of power, if we retalliate now. Who cares a damn about what Govt TSP will have. Its their choice. TSP terrorists have come to India thrashed us for a very long time and its payback time, but then our leaders only believe in Kick Backs.

Here are some relevant quotes to those who think we can economically grow inspite of being defaced by few terrorists, supported by a country of sponsorer of terror. I dont know how our PM will attend any major international conference with out being a butt of jokes. Spineless shameless leader of India indeed.
For him who thinks only economy matters, from enter the dragon

HAN pointing to weapons: It is difficult to associate these horrors with the proud civilizations that created them: Sparta, Rome, The Knights of Europe, the Samurai... They worshipped strength, because it is strength that makes all other values possible. Nothing survives without it. Who knows what delicate wonders have died out of the world, for want of the strength to survive.

Strike now. Be a Man Mr. PM. This is your destiny. "Destroy the enemy"!. Pride, hold it aloft for you will never get second chance.

The enemy has only images and illusions behind which he hides his true motives. Destroy the image and you will break the enemy.

That is all TSP is made up of.

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 26 Dec 2008 07:42

shiv wrote: I am not concerned about the Indian govenrments tactics right now. they will probably do what needs to be done and will do it well. i see no point in attacking those 5000 targets in Pakistan until i see a few more things happening in India - because attacking those 5000 targets will be like putting laxative in the toilet bowl without even needing to crap. I will explain my skatological analogy.
India needs a coherent Pakistan policy that recognizes that Pakistan is a problem failed/failing state
India needs widespread acknowledgement at governmental and policymaking level that Pakistani policy is to hit and bleed India. There is no love for India. There is no desire for peace. Therefore cultural, economic and sporting links are of no use. These only offer and advantage to Pakistan to recover and get back to its normal tricks.
After this crisis is over the Indian government and babus must not declare the problem as solved.The Pakistan problem cannot be solved easily.
There has to be open and frank acknowledgement that the Pakistan problem is inextricably linked with the idea of Islamic extremism and islamic dominance. There areIslamic groups in Pakistan that are fighting a religious war - an Islamic jihad. Nothing secular about this. Secularism cannot "solve" armed Islamic militias. The Pakistan army and establishment are hand in glove with the Islamic jihad forces as long as those forces can be used against India. Idiotic Indians who howl about secularism need to have this driven down their throats.
THERE IS A RELIGIOUS WAR IN PROGRESS. Islamic forces are trying to overrun Pakistan, and Pakistan is half with them and half against them. If the Indian Government and Indian Babus do not recognize this and acknowledge this as a long term problem we will not have a solution at all - not even in the long term

Unless we have a long term change of focus at the governmental level we cannot do anything about Pakistan

well said sir.

are the JNU WKK babus of GOI listening?

or should more indians die for "irreversible peace process" to stop

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Dec 2008 07:44

Singha wrote: The former top official in the Jimmy Carter Administration, who has been consulted by Obama on security matters, also pointed out the pathetic state of Muslims in India as a factor contributing to tension-ridden South Asian scenario.

“And, also it is related to the fact that great many Muslims in India are very underprivileged and don’t have a share of the sort of Indian development growth and all of that. So there is a lot of residual resentment among the 140 or so million Muslims in India.”

Washington, he said, has to urge restraint on both sides. He said while India may have an edge in the case of war “but India could blow itself up.”

The US needs to watch its own ass - and remember you heard it here first.

The US's war on terror is going to take a big hit as Pakistan succesfuly raises tensions with India and moves all its troops to the border with India. But that is a problem that India can handle. The question for America is how they will handle their war on terror.

Morons in American policy making circles need to be told one thing and I say that as an Indian who is in constant contact with Indian Muslims.

The people whom I know are perfectly patriotic Indian and root for India, not Pakiotan. But they do not like the US or its policy.

It is completely stupid for the US to imagine that Indian Muslims are going to fck themselves and their prosperity by screwing the only country they have and be very happy and supportive of America - whom they know has played a duplicitous game.

The US will need to wake up and smell the coffee. If Indian Hindu have a strange slavish lovey-dovey sympathy for America - India remains a democracy and the voice of many Indian Muslims and others will show out in indian policy. India is hardly likely to commit suicide just because Americans think Indian Muslims will start a civil war. How phenomenally stupid.