Indian Response to Terrorism

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A_Gupta
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by A_Gupta »

Interestinger!
On Friday, U.S. intelligence and military officials were still trying to determine if the reported troop movements were true, and, if so, what Pakistan's intent may be. And they cautioned that the reports may be exaggerated, aimed more at delivering a message than dispatching forces.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081226/ap_ ... s_pakistan

Note 1: Troop movements may not be real? Is it a cloudy day over Pakistan today?
Note 2: Pakistan's intent is not clear? Presumably the intent would be clear if India had raised any kind of threat. So the implication is that India has not done anything to rationally cause a Pakistani reaction of moving troops?

That is why this is interesting.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by A_Gupta »

Re: AWACS - immediately Pakistan has to assume that India has full operational capabilities, at least until actually demonstrated otherwise.

I can even imagine India not using full AWACS capability in a first couple of air battles, simply to lure Pakistan into being overconfident (not a difficult thing to do with Pakistanis, it would appear :) ).
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by shynee »

Pak moves army closer to Punjab border, builds new bunkers
CHANDIGARH: Pakistan has stepped up its war moves by cancelling all military leave, sharply increasing deployment of its troops along the border adjoining Punjab and Jammu, and building new bunkers along the border near Barmer, Jaisalmer and Ganganagar.

Highly placed sources said Pakistan has shifted its 4 Corps, an important strike arm, to Lahore, just 25 km from Attari. Its 10th brigade, consisting of around 5,000 personnel, has further been moved to forward areas along Punjab. Similarly its 3rd Armoured Brigade has been moved towards Jhelum.

At the same time, the Pakistan army was making war preparations with old bunkers on the borders being renovated and new ones being constructed. "The new bunkers are being constructed mostly along the borders near Barmer, Jaisalmer and Ganganagar and construction materials can also be seen at several places," said intelligence sources.

Sources revealed that Pakistan army has deployed its 10th Division at Ichogul Canal border area near Jammu and its 11th Division in the Tilla firing range, again bordering Punjab. These troops, said Indian Army sources on Friday, are around 10 km behind the international border. As per the Geneva Convention, no country can deploy its troops in such heavy numbers within 3-4 km of the international border unless war is declared formally. They can, however, conduct routine patrolling along the border.

With such heavy deployment of troops by Pakistan, Punjab has emerged as a vulnerable state as it shares a 553 km border with Pakistan. Further, sources said Punjab is strategically very important for Pakistan as the formation of its army is extremely strong in this area.

India's 2nd Corps from Ambala and 10 Corps from Bathinda have also moved to border areas for what an Army spokesperson described as annual exercises. This comes even as 11 Corps from Jalandhar has already moved for the exercise.

Sources said BSF ground commanders have sent a report to the Union government giving details of the movement by Pakistan troops along border areas. Sources said the report also contains ascertained figures of Pakistani deployments and the kind of weaponry carried by that country's forces.

Himmat Singh, IG (Punjab border) BSF, refused to divulge information about the report sent to the Centre, which sources said was discussed during the meeting of chief of staffs with PM Manmohan Singh in Delhi on Friday.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by williams »

I am not sure if someone already posted this report
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/mil_avi/mi ... awacs.html

It is dated 11th Nov 2008

I am pasting something that would interest BRites

Reports now emanating from Israel say the first of the three IAI-manufactured Phalcon AWACS aircraft systems, contracted for by the Indian Air Force, may be delivered sometime over the next few weeks. An Indian defence delegation currently in Israel may also be negotiating a $1.5 billion purchase of four similar early warning systems
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Muppalla »

Let them move to the border, Indian satellites can track the troop movements and the piglets can be wiped out easily. DRDO should test the new missiles and launch vehicles live. A very very good opportunity and target practice.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by James B »

williams wrote:I am not sure if someone already posted this report
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/mil_avi/mi ... awacs.html

It is dated 11th Nov 2008

I am pasting something that would interest BRites

Reports now emanating from Israel say the first of the three IAI-manufactured Phalcon AWACS aircraft systems, contracted for by the Indian Air Force, may be delivered sometime over the next few weeks. An Indian defence delegation currently in Israel may also be negotiating a $1.5 billion purchase of four similar early warning systems

That is a great news if they are delivered within few weeks.
Rishirishi
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Rishirishi »

Just read in a newspaper that www.stratfor.com reporting of an Indian ultimatum, until friday.

Anyone have acess to the site?

Thanks
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by NRao »

Rishirishi wrote:Just read in a newspaper that http://www.stratfor.com reporting of an Indian ultimatum, until friday.

Anyone have acess to the site?

Thanks
That is the 30 day given to Pakistan.

I posted that article a page or two ago.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by NRao »

Fun times, Pakistan moves some troops away from Afghanistan and toward India

Just what Pakis wanted. Even if India does not move they will until India is forced to build up along the border. I bet Pakis will force the issue even more. Until "K" is mentioned they will force the issue.

IMHO, the IAF should give them a gift - since they are asking for it.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by jrjrao »

X-Post:


Expect Zaid Porki Hamid and Sheikh "let us nuke India" Rashid Ahmad to have major khujil-e-musharraf on reading about this:

Hydraulic pressure -- Cabinet clears Krishnaganga project
Srinagar, Jan 26: It seems India has opened up one more front to put pressure on Pakistan in the aftermath of Mumbai attacks after using diplomatic pressure and war rhetoric. The government of India has cleared the controversial Kishenganga Hydroelectric Project in the state at a revised higher cost. Pakistan had raised objections over the project, saying it violated the Indus-Water Treaty which guides the flow of rivers to Pakistan from India.

The government cleared the project at a revised cost of 3642 crore.

“‘Pakistan had raised some questions about the project but we are sure it fully complies with the Indus Water Treaty of 1960 between the two countries,” Home Minister P Chidambaram told reporters.
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/
http://dailyexcelsior.com/
sunilUpa
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by sunilUpa »

Yawn...time to rename the thread - 'Porkistani response to Porkistani sponsored terrorism in India'.

Yawn
Lalmohan
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Lalmohan »

porkistan's desperation to be invaded is getting to be quite hysterical. hypotheses are as follows

1. dragon has told them 'you're on your own mate' (until nasty uighur jehadis are cleansed together with the other filth)
2. unkil is doing major ball squeezing and a war with india is seen as a better option
3. kiyanahi does not want to be left out of the hall of (in)fame of tactically brilliant pak-e-jarnails and get in early

the only and i mean only news of military movements is coming from pakistan... nothing so far from india, in the meantime, the talibs are turning up the heat in afghanistan...

i think the time is coming for when instead of PA being the anvil on which unkil smashes the talibs, the talibs and their PA 'special friends' a la dostana variety get smashed on the IA's anvil
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Rishirishi »

Media reports that the Chinease called up Indian forigin minister. Does this have any significane in the diplomatic world.

I am tempted to conclude that the Porkies requested the Chinease to mediate.
Lalmohan
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Lalmohan »

Rishirishi wrote:Media reports that the Chinease called up Indian forigin minister. Does this have any significane in the diplomatic world.

I am tempted to conclude that the Porkies requested the Chinease to mediate.
NDTV reported that Pranabda called his Chinese counterpart to put pressure on porkistan
Stan_Savljevic
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

Lalmohan wrote:porkistan's desperation to be invaded is getting to be quite hysterical.
I hope there are no earthquakes or tsunamis this time so that the west once again starts feeling empathetic to TSP at large. Given one recent news item about a 6.0 off Lawhore and after-shocks, its all up in the air....
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by lakshmikanth »

I have to think our "restraint" in our response is because of our impotent nature. I also realized that there is nothing called a "soft-power" that is soft all the time, its a hogwash concept created by "Gandhian" extremists.

A power is not a power if there is NO consequence involved in attacking it, in case of the softest power like us, the consequence is not symmetric because we are soft and the attackers know that there wont be a hard attack.

As long as there wont be a hard consequence for an attack and as long as the attackers can live with the soft consequence and can find asymmetric way to deal with the "soft" defence, then the attacks will keep coming and will create destruction and wreck havoc on public minds.

In the light above I think there no soft-power that can be soft all the time. I think Gandhi was wrong, violence is a tool which needs justification to use it. If there is capacity for violence and no one uses it when justified, its equal to having no capacity for violence. Non-Violence can never be the assumption of a philosophy because its an ethical action which should be the RESULT of philosophical pondering over a situation, and in this light Gandhi was wrong to say Non-violence was a philosophical absolute. KangCrazeI is Gandhian legacy and it still continues to debilitate us.

To further depress you guys here is some more action:

Education in Porkistan

Sheela "Dhimmi" Bhat focussing on our softness
samuel.chandra
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by samuel.chandra »

Someone attempting a little PR campaign or just asking for patience ? If Sardarji plans on delivering, slow is good.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/26m ... -india.htm

Manmohan Singh has ensured that it is still advantage India
December 26, 2008
A month after the terror attacks on Mumbai, India looks different.

This day last month, India's incompetence was on display. Pakistan-based terrorists or Pakistan army-backed groups or whatever you call them, had hit India so badly that every Indian found it humiliating. And when facts nailed the simultaneous failure of all its systems, India was truly humbled.

On the one hand India was a victim of the evil designs of evil minds. On the other hand, it was also a victim of criminal negligence; of its failure to react to terror warnings; of the lethargy of its bureaucracy in taking preventive measures to ensure at least minimum safety; of the corroded and out-of-date infrastructure of its external and internal security system.

After the initial shock came a second jolt when it was found that it was just 10 terrorists who had held India's finest forces at bay for 60 hours.

It was an embarrassment for a country that is one of the biggest victims of terrorism in the world and yet does not have a strategy to seize the initiative from the enemy in the first few hours of the attack. The so-called emerging world power looked so vulnerable that the world watched the events unfold in dazed silence.

The third setback was at a different level. The ambitious India-China hyphenation vanished from the public eye and was again replaced with the hackneyed and wicked India-Pakistan hyphenation.

Now, India is seen as an unsafe destination for outsiders, at least in the short-term due to its response. This is also because of the coming unpredictable general election and of the difficult-to-ignore internal differences of all shades.

Against these setbacks in last 30 days, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [Images] has behaved with extra caution; slow and responsibly.

He can be criticised for being slow and may be accused of being out-of-tune with Mumbai's [Images] anger and humiliation, but he has ensured that it is still advantage India.

Just one look at what is happening from Iran to Thailand will show India has to tread slowly and carefully. Surely, Dr Singh's words fall short, but his decision to go slow in first month has suited his party, government and country. "If our Sardarji means business we don't mind him taking a little more time," one senior Congress leader, who is among those who believe that Pakistan has to be taught a lesson.

The prime minister's meeting on Friday with the three defence chiefs is an important development. A senior serving diplomat said of it: "The government is moving from inaction to action."

A few other major changes are visible in the reactions of the Prime Minister's Office and the external affairs ministry. India's first official reaction did not allege the direct involvement of Pakistan, its army or the Inter-Services Intelligence. At the official level, only in the last week has the tone changed. India surely has in its pocket some substantial evidence to indict the Pakistan army [Images]. Otherwise, Foreign Secretary Shiv Shanker Menon, External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee [Images] and now the prime minister would not start mentioning names beyond 'non-State actors'.

On December 23, Dr Singh said at the Heads of Missions meeting: 'India sought peace and stability in its neighbourhood. The situation was however worrisome. Non-State actors were practicing terrorism aided and abetted by State establishments. The Mumbai terrorist attacks were an attack on India's ambitions to emerge as an economic power.'

One does not need any more proof to know that the government is convinced about the Pakistan establishment's role after the PM's speech.

So, the government has actually moved forward in its response to the Mumbai attacks. And in that sense the patience of the past month and the PMO's go-slow attitude is understandable.

A lot may have been written about why a war with Pakistan is inevitable, but a senior diplomat said: "The media need not brand any action of the government as war or lack of action as India's limitations. India should do or not do certain things in its interests." An important thing to note is that nobody in New Delhi [Images] thinks that the attack will go without a response.

There are too many ifs and buts in the process of taking any decision and the government is under tremendous pressure.

First, India is looking to neutralise America's apprehensions about India's possible steps and options. At this moment, India will have to ensure that America's stand on the issue remains neutral and certainly does not lean towards Islamabad [Images]. That is the biggest challenge.

Second, the smooth transition of power in Jammu and Kashmir [Images] is a must and will have to be ensured in the next couple of days.

Three -- whether detractors of Dr Singh like it or not -- no country can respond to external factors effectively if it doesn't remain politically united or at least look united to outsiders. So, it is imperative to support and trust Dr Singh's decision-making ability if not the typical, conventional leadership qualities which he obviously lacks.

Agree with it or not, but Manmohan Singh is the man of the moment. And, he may even become a man of destiny. When history is in the making, personalities or individuals in power matter. For that matter, the three chiefs of services, Mukherjee and Menon along with United Progressive Alliance Chairperson Sonia Gandhi [Images] are no less important.

The fourth and most important factor is that the investigations into the attacks have just begun and the involvement of local elements has not been thoroughly probed yet. It may or may not turn out that there was local involvement like in the 1993 blasts, where Tiger Memon [Images] helped in the logistics. But it is necessary to ensure that such a revelation does not polarise the Hindu and Muslim communities.

As of today, the biggest gain of the Mumbai attacks is that the Muslim community leaders of India have shamed those critics who had cast doubts over the entire community on the issue of terrorism.

The Indian Muslim leadership have spoken out and shown the nation what India stands for them and what the true worth and meaning of India is. Except the A R Antulay [Images] episode, India has been immensely strengthened by the unexpected turn of events and Pakistan-based elements who sponsored the attack were given a fitting reply. Those who disagree with this should compare the situation with how it was a day after the Godhra incident.

Also, since the Mumbai attack was televised, peace-loving Pakistanis must be worried that the acts of a handful of their countrymen have set the clock back by many years. Old men are heard saying on television that the impact on the mass psyche is as deep as the attack by China in 1962.

The new urban generation of 2008 will never forget how in their childhood youngsters from Pakistan wearing casual clothes and wielding AK-47 rifles came to the shores of Mumbai and terrorised the city for three days. If you think more about the psychological impact, it seems like the hawks and radicals in Pakistan have already lost the battle because India has rediscovered the beauty of Hindu-Muslim unity and looks modern in its new avatar, at least in Mumbai.

And peaceniks on both sides must feel depressed because they have lost the middle ground, which was created after five decades of hostility has shrunken overnight.

Once, the state government in Jammu and Kashmir is formed, the most difficult time of Dr Singh's life will begin.


His actions will have to mirror the public anger and people's resolve to fight terrorism must reflect in his diplomacy. He has to make sure India emerges stronger out of crisis, morally and historically.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by RajaJi »

{Totally non-violent Gandhian latrine-sweep conducted.}
Last edited by enqyoob on 27 Dec 2008 06:19, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: OT deleted
samuel.chandra
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by samuel.chandra »

Gandhi was actually quite smart. For him, I think, non-violence was a strategy. British always thought of him as cunning and shrewd. If he had taken the violent approach, the british could have justified brutal retaliation(plus we didn't have military might). Instead people peacefully walking up to get beaten up by lathis would have been disastrous for the british image (both within Britain and outside). The looked like the barbarians.

BUT we don't have to follow the same strategy now! Times have changed. If you have the might use that to bring peace. give peace a chance...
lakshmikanth wrote:I have to think our "restraint" in our response is because of our impotent nature. I also realized that there is nothing called a "soft-power" that is soft all the time, its a hogwash concept created by "Gandhian" extremists.

A power is not a power if there is NO consequence involved in attacking it, in case of the softest power like us, the consequence is not symmetric because we are soft and the attackers know that there wont be a hard attack.

As long as there wont be a hard consequence for an attack and as long as the attackers can live with the soft consequence and can find asymmetric way to deal with the "soft" defence, then the attacks will keep coming and will create destruction and wreck havoc on public minds.

In the light above I think there no soft-power that can be soft all the time. I think Gandhi was wrong, violence is a tool which needs justification to use it. If there is capacity for violence and no one uses it when justified, its equal to having no capacity for violence. Non-Violence can never be the assumption of a philosophy because its an ethical action which should be the RESULT of philosophical pondering over a situation, and in this light Gandhi was wrong to say Non-violence was a philosophical absolute. KangCrazeI is Gandhian legacy and it still continues to debilitate us.

To further depress you guys here is some more action:

Education in Porkistan

Sheela "Dhimmi" Bhat focussing on our softness
lakshmikanth
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by lakshmikanth »

samuel.chandra wrote:Gandhi was actually quite smart. For him, I think, non-violence was a strategy. British always thought of him as cunning and shrewd. If he had taken the violent approach, the british could have justified brutal retaliation(plus we didn't have military might). Instead people peacefully walking up to get beaten up by lathis would have been disastrous for the british image (both within Britain and outside). The looked like the barbarians.

BUT we don't have to follow the same strategy now! Times have changed. If you have the might use that to bring peace. give peace a chance...
Gandhian philosophy works when you are dealing with an enemy more powerful and resourceful than you are and also has conscience. Had he used his philosophy that no violence is ever justified against Hitler, we would have been annihilated. The brits were ****** morons, but they were not heartless.

Now we have an enemy who is sly and at present less powerful than us (just like how the brits were when they landed in India for the first time). And the enemy is also heartless, so both conditions are violated.... Stupidity to the core :(
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by A_Gupta »

If India-Pakistan relation is like a chess game, then there can be many strategies, including spectacular Bobby Fischer type combinations, or solid positional play, slowly accumulating advantages. The real issue before us however is - Is the Indian side playing to win? I think there is little faith that the answer is in the affirmative. I think we all feel the Indian player is prone to narcolepsy.

Whether you like M.K. Gandhi or not, I think you have to agree he was playing to win.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by negi »

I believe this thread is about Indian response to terrorism and not to justify Gandhian ideals which anyways were a gimmick, however now that people have brought this to the table I would only say that more than the Gandhi's ability to mobilise the nation it was the WW-II and immense loss of H&D and men and material which forced Britain to leave India and other colonies. Had it not been for the WW-II Gandhi would not have achieved zilch with those umpteen chai biskoot round table conferences.
I mean I literally laugh at the idea of Gandhi and Nehru being given the credit for our independence. :rotfl:
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Rishirishi »

A_Gupta wrote:If India-Pakistan relation is like a chess game, then there can be many strategies, including spectacular Bobby Fischer type combinations, or solid positional play, slowly accumulating advantages. The real issue before us however is - Is the Indian side playing to win? I think there is little faith that the answer is in the affirmative. I think we all feel the Indian player is prone to narcolepsy.

Whether you like M.K. Gandhi or not, I think you have to agree he was playing to win.
Not only did he play to win, but he won with style. Martin Luther king used the same approach and won. There is now way anyone can do anything but leave, if people simply sit down and do nothing. How may can you kill? for How log? If the palestinins used the approach, the Israelis would have to leave.

But the tactic only works on people with brains and compassion. Not with the heartless, brainwashed jehadi fanatics.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by RajaJi »

negi wrote:I believe this thread is about Indian response to terrorism and not to justify Gandhian ideals which anyways were a gimmick, however now that people have brought this to the table I would only say that more than the Gandhi's ability to mobilise the nation it was the WW-II and immense loss of H&D and men and material which forced Britain to leave India and other colonies. Had it not been for the WW-II Gandhi would not have achieved zilch with those umpteen chai biskoot round table conferences.
I mean I literally laugh at the idea of Gandhi and Nehru being given the credit for our independence. :rotfl:
Yes, this is pretty much what i've also heard from some fellow "senior" Indians that I know personally. Alot of them also put the blame on gandhi and nehru for the mess that India is in. Just wondering, how much were gandhi and nehru responsible for the creation of porkistan?
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by brihaspati »

So, the government has actually moved forward in its response to the Mumbai attacks. And in that sense the patience of the past month and the PMO's go-slow attitude is understandable.
Of coures! An oscillatory, sine curve motion is an excellent idea - go-slow first, then walk at normal pace, it will seem fast, slow down again - say you are preparing to go fast, then walk normally as you do at any given time, it will appear fast, go slow again, catch your breath, it is called "preparation" - in my teens our trainer for 10,000 metres was exactly the same, a couple of laps of speed, then go slow, jog, don't stop, prepare, then speed again.
A lot may have been written about why a war with Pakistan is inevitable, but a senior diplomat said: "The media need not brand any action of the government as war or lack of action as India's limitations. India should do or not do certain things in its interests." An important thing to note is that nobody in New Delhi [Images] thinks that the attack will go without a response.

There are too many ifs and buts in the process of taking any decision and the government is under tremendous pressure.
I am looking for a governement in history, and at present, all over the world - which does not have too many ifs and buts in the process of taking any decison and a givernment not under tremendous pressure - I guess I have to look for the penguin kingdom in Antarctica.
I am also delighted to note that for the first time we have a thourougbred "thought-reader" - one who can read all the thoughts of millions milling around in New Delhi.
First, India is looking to neutralise America's apprehensions about India's possible steps and options. At this moment, India will have to ensure that America's stand on the issue remains neutral and certainly does not lean towards Islamabad [Images]. That is the biggest challenge.
Oh, America is apprehensive of India's possible steps or options? So the biggest challenge is to assure US doesn't lean towards Pakis and not the challenge of fixing up Pakistani based terror? What wonderful intelligence assumes that if India calls the bluff, US will actually come and fight for Pakistan?
Second, the smooth transition of power in Jammu and Kashmir [Images] is a must and will have to be ensured in the next couple of days.
Yes yes, we expect a very rough ride - its almost like Mountbatten handing over power to the Indian Union.
Three -- whether detractors of Dr Singh like it or not -- no country can respond to external factors effectively if it doesn't remain politically united or at least look united to outsiders. So, it is imperative to support and trust Dr Singh's decision-making ability if not the typical, conventional leadership qualities which he obviously lacks.
Bacchelog, MMS is really hurt. But no one has told him that no country can remain politically united if it cannot respond to external factors effectively.
Agree with it or not, but Manmohan Singh is the man of the moment. And, he may even become a man of destiny. When history is in the making, personalities or individuals in power matter. For that matter, the three chiefs of services, Mukherjee and Menon along with United Progressive Alliance Chairperson Sonia Gandhi [Images] are no less important.
Sure, many in similar situations have become men of destiny - like Neville Chamberlain smiling about Hitler. Leave the three chiefs behind, please - they can do without the honour of sharing the destiny spot. You are spot on about the two politicians though, it is inhuman to mourn alone.
The fourth and most important factor is that the investigations into the attacks have just begun and the involvement of local elements has not been thoroughly probed yet. It may or may not turn out that there was local involvement like in the 1993 blasts, where Tiger Memon [Images] helped in the logistics. But it is necessary to ensure that such a revelation does not polarise the Hindu and Muslim communities.
Yes, this is of course the most important agenda and identifies the political source of this panegyric - the utmost concern that "realizations" of local support from Islamic groups should not consolidate "Hindu" votes.
As of today, the biggest gain of the Mumbai attacks is that the Muslim community leaders of India have shamed those critics who had cast doubts over the entire community on the issue of terrorism.

The Indian Muslim leadership have spoken out and shown the nation what India stands for them and what the true worth and meaning of India is. Except the A R Antulay [Images] episode, India has been immensely strengthened by the unexpected turn of events and Pakistan-based elements who sponsored the attack were given a fitting reply. Those who disagree with this should compare the situation with how it was a day after the Godhra incident.
So the biggest gain is not if Muslim community leaders have spoken out and shown the nation what India stands for them (why was it necessary to show this, if not already evident?) but that they have "shamed" their critics! No need also to prepare for "war" MMS/UPA - as Pakistani based elements have already been given a fitting reply.
Also, since the Mumbai attack was televised, peace-loving Pakistanis must be worried that the acts of a handful of their countrymen have set the clock back by many years. Old men are heard saying on television that the impact on the mass psyche is as deep as the attack by China in 1962.
Thats a surpise! Aren't Pakistanis supposed to be peaceful by default? Okay about the Old men - if you mean Old Pakistani men then probably Hamid Gul is a teenager, and pleasant to know that there is no generation gap in Pakistan - so that old men are in total sync and are representative of entire Pakistani society - by the way, weren't there any peaceloving young men on TV?
The new urban generation of 2008 will never forget how in their childhood youngsters from Pakistan wearing casual clothes and wielding AK-47 rifles came to the shores of Mumbai and terrorised the city for three days. If you think more about the psychological impact, it seems like the hawks and radicals in Pakistan have already lost the battle because India has rediscovered the beauty of Hindu-Muslim unity and looks modern in its new avatar, at least in Mumbai.
Well there you go again sweetie pie! No need to prepare for war against Pakistani terror - they have already lost the battle - and for the first time, even without Navi Mumbai being completed - Mumbai looks modern, because it is discovering again the beauty of Hindu-Muslim unity - when was the first time incidentally, right after the Partition riots?
And peaceniks on both sides must feel depressed because they have lost the middle ground, which was created after five decades of hostility has shrunken overnight.
Middle ground is after all an one-dimensional line, it does not have an existence of its own - its the imaginary line at which two dissimilar worlds end - maybe it has simply lost the fog hovering over it?
Once, the state government in Jammu and Kashmir is formed, the most difficult time of Dr Singh's life will begin. His actions will have to mirror the public anger and people's resolve to fight terrorism must reflect in his diplomacy. He has to make sure India emerges stronger out of crisis, morally and historically.
Oh, oh so the state government is the most important business of the union prime minister faced with a low intensity warfare - that should fairly be the concern of the Governor, the President, and at best the Congress party chief - the PM is paid for other jobs! MMS can practise his moves before the mirror definitely and enact a full-scale "ravana-badha" to reflect the public anger and people's resolve should reflect in his "diplomacy" - no war please!

Has the Congress been reduced to such dire straits that it cannot pay good money to get a proper hagiographer?
RajaJi
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by RajaJi »

Rishirishi wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:If India-Pakistan relation is like a chess game, then there can be many strategies, including spectacular Bobby Fischer type combinations, or solid positional play, slowly accumulating advantages. The real issue before us however is - Is the Indian side playing to win? I think there is little faith that the answer is in the affirmative. I think we all feel the Indian player is prone to narcolepsy.

Whether you like M.K. Gandhi or not, I think you have to agree he was playing to win.
Not only did he play to win, but he won with style. Martin Luther king used the same approach and won. There is now way anyone can do anything but leave, if people simply sit down and do nothing. How may can you kill? for How log? If the palestinins used the approach, the Israelis would have to leave.

But the tactic only works on people with brains and compassion. Not with the heartless, brainwashed jehadi fanatics.
Your last sentence sums it up pretty well, it only works with people who have some insaniyaat. Plus the other factors mentioned above by negi, contributed a whole lot to the end results as well.
Last edited by RajaJi on 27 Dec 2008 09:22, edited 3 times in total.
samuel.chandra
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by samuel.chandra »

:rotfl:
brihaspati wrote:
{Please read above, no need to copy the whole thing}
Last edited by enqyoob on 27 Dec 2008 08:34, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: waste of bandwidth, copying entire message
NRao
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by NRao »

The chapter on Mumbai Attack is now closed.
“Terrorism is a cancer, we need to cut it out,“ said the Saudi foreign minister, while calling for the United Nations to set up an international body to deal with Mumbai-like terror attacks.

A special body of all countries should be set up so that Mumbai-like incidents are not repeated, the Saudi minister said.

“In the meeting it was agreed that global terrorism has to be dealt with through joint action by all countries,” Mukherjee said after talks with his Saudi counterpart.

“Whatever action has to be taken to control terrorism should be taken without further delay and with transparency,” he added.

“It's not an issue between India and Pakistan but a global problem,” the minister stressed.
Awaiting an international body to meet to discuss the attack.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by brihaspati »

(1) Talk of Gandhian strategy in dealing with Pakistan :
Both examples (Gandhi and Luther) cited are of strategies applied to the state machinery by its component citizens - where a critical mass of the states components decide to inactivate themselves so that the state cannot function. In more technical terms we call this making a social network graph disconnected. The structural relationship between Pakistan and India does not belong to this category.

(2) About Pakistan-India chess game :
Chess or for any similar finite stage game of complete information, there exists a subgame perfect Nash equilibrium. In lay terms, this means that given each player has complete information about past moves of the other, this game has an equilibrium in which no player has any incentive to deviate from their strategies for the entire game in all subsequent moves. It can be a good exercise to set out moves at each stage of this game, and we can try to find the the equilibria - but I guess the dis-equilibria would be equally interesting.

(3) Gandhi+Nehru's role in formation of Pakistan ( I feel bad to call it porkistan - please at least have some respect for Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan who was forced to call this land his home -please don't misunderstand : I am sure by this time everyone here is convinced about my feelings for what should happen to this land :) ) should belong to some other thread : but as a response thread, I would say this particular response of accepting the Partition as a response to the terror of "Diirect Action" was utterly stupid and disastrous. To be fair, Gandhi showed signs of thinking of starting one of his astute political moves to "bypass" the act of "Partition" and we should not forget that he was actually assasinate on the eve of his proposed journey to "Pakistan". On Nehru's response, the less said the better - he was also not much acceptable among the Muslims compared to the rival he did his best to keep away from the field - "Bose" who evidently commanded loyalty even from Afghan Muslims.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by NRao »

Maldives, now
Oman's Foreign Minister Yusuf Bin Alawai Bin Abdullah came here last week and offered India support in tracking down perpetrators of the Mumbai strikes. Iran's deputy foreign minister Mohammad Mehdi Akhondzadeh also met Mukherjee last week and asked Pakistan to intensify its efforts to crack down on terror outfits
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by shyamd »

My paki friend keeps asking me, why India hasn't sent evidence to Pak and Interpol. I told him interpol is a joke. But don't have answer for why India hasn't sent pak evidence, I told him I don't know, maybe still gathering evidence.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Rangudu »

Interpol has Indian evidence on Dawood Ibrahim and Masood Azhar. TSP hasn't acted on any of that info. In fact, it has systematically wiped out traces of culpability.

For interpol info, see:

http://www.interpol.int/public/Data/Not ... _14193.asp

It clearly gives his address in Karachi.

Also see:

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2007/sc9070.doc.htm

UN Security Council notice designating Dawood as an Al Qaida affiliate with Pakistani residence.

TSP is just lying and prevaricating. If we had shared info, it would say it is not enough or unclear. Just look at the lies on the Kasab matter even after Pak journalists proved his identity and interviewed his father.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by shyamd »

Thanks ji.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by enqyoob »

Poojya Matri Pranab ji said several days ago, that the "proof" has been given "not once, not twice, but over ten time" to TSP.

IMO, the best "proof" is when the Rescuers find the pieces of the terrorist leaders in their former headquarters after an air raid.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by CRamS »

Rangudu wrote:Interpol has Indian evidence on Dawood Ibrahim and Masood Azhar. TSP hasn't acted on any of that info. In fact, it has systematically wiped out traces of culpability.

For interpol info, see:

http://www.interpol.int/public/Data/Not ... _14193.asp

It clearly gives his address in Karachi.

Also see:

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2007/sc9070.doc.htm

UN Security Council notice designating Dawood as an Al Qaida affiliate with Pakistani residence.

TSP is just lying and prevaricating. If we had shared info, it would say it is not enough or unclear. Just look at the lies on the Kasab matter even after Pak journalists proved his identity and interviewed his father.
One does not know whether to laugh or cry at the drama being staged by TSP. And USA has betrayed India once again with this equal equal crap.

But that said, I think India citing and invoking BS resolutions from UN is naive to say the least. First, unless Unkil adds some teeth to those resolutions by way of sanctions etc, TSP will wipe their asses with the paper on which those resolutions are framed. Also, TSP could pull of another diplomatic stunt on us spinless Indians by saying TSP is willing to respect UN resolutions if India honors UN resilutions on Kashmir. And US will endorse this kind of equal equal horse manure as well.

Thus India's only choices seem to be:

1) Show TSP 'evidence' that they so desire: some precision attacks on ISI/TSPA GHQ. (I am day dreaming).
2) Unkil and his western lackeys add some punch into the levers of power they wield and join India in its battle against TSP terror. (If wishes were horses, beggars would ride).
3) Turn the screw ever so slowly on TSP cutting of all diplomatic/cultural/economic links with TSP, and keep up the military pressure, and confront US and its lackeys through aggressive diplomacy that kid-glove treatment of TSP is unacceptable (my preference).
4) Make 'peace process irreversible' and go back to business as usual until next attack and in the meantime gloat about its impending arrival as a 'global super power of the 21st century'. (Most likely scenario).
Last edited by CRamS on 27 Dec 2008 09:10, edited 1 time in total.
samuel.chandra
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by samuel.chandra »

Every common citizen must watch this. Pretty much summarizes this thread.



http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=GAWAk3N_JNE
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Rahul M »

A_Gupta wrote:If India-Pakistan relation is like a chess game, then there can be many strategies, including spectacular Bobby Fischer type combinations, or solid positional play, slowly accumulating advantages. The real issue before us however is - Is the Indian side playing to win? I think there is little faith that the answer is in the affirmative. I think we all feel the Indian player is prone to narcolepsy.

Whether you like M.K. Gandhi or not, I think you have to agree he was playing to win.
giving credit to gandhian policies alone is naive.
the armed struggle against the brits played a very big role psychologically without which the policies of non-violence would have come to a stand still.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Vikramaditya »

RajaJi wrote:
negi wrote:I believe this thread is about Indian response to terrorism and not to justify Gandhian ideals which anyways were a gimmick, however now that people have brought this to the table I would only say that more than the Gandhi's ability to mobilise the nation it was the WW-II and immense loss of H&D and men and material which forced Britain to leave India and other colonies. Had it not been for the WW-II Gandhi would not have achieved zilch with those umpteen chai biskoot round table conferences.
I mean I literally laugh at the idea of Gandhi and Nehru being given the credit for our independence. :rotfl:
Yes, this is pretty much what i've also heard from some fellow "senior" Indians that I know personally. Alot of them also put the blame on gandhi and nehru for the mess that India is in. Just wondering, how much were gandhi and nehru responsible for the creation of porkistan?
Ditto with my Grandpa ... IMO this fact is mentioned very subtly in the book Freedom at Midnight by Francois Gautier.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by ManuT »

IMO, whether IAF strikes or PAF attempts preemption, the whole PA-ISI-Mehud-Mullah Omar-UBL Alliance will get consolidated in the open.

The movement of troops on its eastern borders is an effective peace offering by Pakistan Establishment to al Qaida-Taliban by creating 'gaps' on Western borders, thereby washing off any responsibility for its failure to curb the movement of al Qaida-Taliban.

The F16s can now stop pretending to be looking for UBL and ready for the real reason Pak did U-turn in the aftermath of 9/11.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Rahul M »

Vikramaditya wrote:...........
Ditto with my Grandpa ... IMO this fact is mentioned very subtly in the book Freedom at Midnight by Francois Gautier.
it's by dominic lapierre.
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