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Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

ramana
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 12 Dec 2008 21:01

In US they have special courts and judges to deal with national security crimes and massive consensus on misuse of intelligence to fix political rivals. The reason why Nixon was forced out was he was using the CIA to fix the politicians.

Citing potential abuse is not the way to stall sorely needed reforms if one wants to preserve the nation state. So put in checks and balances and have periodic review.

One big lesson to me is that the Mumbai terrorists attack is not 9/11 but 1962 China debacle revisited. There was total collapse again on multiple levels: Center and State political leadership, multiple agencies: Central Intelligence agencies and State Police command structures and cooridantion between military and civlian intelligence agencies, and multiple individuals: Public figures like Shivraj Patil, Vasant Rao Deshmukh, RR Patil, MK Narayanan, and others yet unnamed and probably covering their culpability and private individuals like Baraka Dutt and her cohorts (constantly revealing NSG positions), RG Varma, Ritesh Deshmukh (disaster tourism) , Rahul Gandhi (partying till 5 AM).

I also think the ATS top leadership was guilty of judgement, for piliing onto one jeep/vehicle and getting killed. I am sure their killing lead to top leadership paralysis in the Mumbia Police. For the fools didnt know if it was an assassination or an attack to take out the top guys. It would be interesting to know the content of the phone conversations of the controllers watcing Indian TV and directing the hitmen. Did they target the ATS leadership based on TV channel inputs and Mumbai police control room radio chatter?

Why werent the TV taken off the air once the police knew that the attacks were being guided using TV channel coverage?

At what level was the cellphones monitored?Was there a DIG in the control room?

The great success was the NSG, Marcos, and above all the individual Mumbai polcemen in the lower ranks.

Its an internal security 1962 debacle.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby SaiK » 12 Dec 2008 21:16

one big lesson:
1. reform and refine police.

2. don't ban media, but have them regulated... clip the events with a 5 - x (defined by the event needs) minutes delay, that gets reviewed by a security team, who can add or remove to divert terror plan. there could many video software that helps here. few more jobs here in my plan.

3. give Z-category security for all cops. [answer is simple]

4. give Z-category security for all marine and airborne vehicles. [answer is complex, do able]

5. nail and bait the terrorists.. this is a big lesson that we need to upgrading our lessons and re-input to our lessons.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby VikramS » 12 Dec 2008 21:54

ramana:
The ATS is primarily an intelligence, investigation and analysis group, not an active action group. So the death of its chief wouldn't have a direct impact on the operation.

Also the other two officers killed were not ATS members.

From some conversation with people in the know, there is a lot of frustration with the way the police is organized in India; essentially a tool of the politicians as it was in the days of the Raj. The police needs to be able to operate independent of political pressures and the reforms are needed.

The people who go into the IPS are among the top-rankers in the Civil Services Exam; they certainly aren't dumb idiots looking to make a quick buck. However, like the rest of middle class Indians who are frustrated with the politicians, these folks too feel helpless. And the politicians can make a very direct impact on their lives; I had posted an article earlier where an IPS Ashish Gupta talked about being transferred 27 times in 9 years! This gentleman was a CSE graduate from IITK and is currently at the PMO.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby surinder » 12 Dec 2008 22:02

VikramS wrote:I had posted an article earlier where an IPS Ashish Gupta talked about being transferred 27 times in 9 years! This gentleman was a CSE graduate from IITK and is currently at the PMO.


Vikram, Can you post the link to that article? AG is an old acquantance of mine.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby VikramS » 12 Dec 2008 22:09

surinder wrote:
VikramS wrote:I had posted an article earlier where an IPS Ashish Gupta talked about being transferred 27 times in 9 years! This gentleman was a CSE graduate from IITK and is currently at the PMO.


Vikram, Can you post the link to that article? AG is an old acquantance of mine.

I got the article from this blog:
http://suchetadalal.com/blog/?p=30

I have also posted its contents on Page 3 of this thread. I can't figure out how to link to a single post.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 12 Dec 2008 22:10

VikramS, I am afraid its even worse. The ATS is a police squad setup to take on organised crime in Mumbai. It hardly is an anti-terrorist organization. Just by calling it that doesnt make it so. In fairness, ever since Dawood Ibrahim went over to the ISI and started terrorist attacks, the Mumbai Police just assumed its the same thing and created this ATS out of its anti-organized crime squad. Its time to understand th eproblems and find solutions. Putting lipstick wont do.

In fact I Started the first Indian Police threads for people to get an idea of what is needed a few years ago.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 12 Dec 2008 22:31

X-Posted..
We need to be clear about NSG roles and missions. It is VIP proximate security like the US Secret Service and Anti-terrorist operations like US Delta force. And its under Police leadership. Due to the contradictions in the r&M it will not do the the job optimally. I thin kthe SPG and SAG be bifurcated. All the lacuna in the NSG ops- IC 814 hijack and the current Mumbai attack are due to transportation difficulties in getting them from tehri base to the incident location.

Every incident gives an opportunity to study what worked and what didnt so that atleast it doesn't happen next time. However after IC 814 hijack looks like no lessons were learned about fixing the transportation delay. Nor were local resources raised for holding operations. Was the Akshardam temple attack studied?

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 12 Dec 2008 23:57

X-posted...
Sachin wrote:
ramana wrote:I think there is a need to examine the failure of command in the Mumbai Police. It looks like the top echelons folded or hid.

Looks like such an examination is taking place. Today's Hindu has the report under the title Top police officials under fire for errors of judgment
Excerpts...
Mumbai’s top police officials, highly placed government sources said, failed to take charge of the Police Control Room, the nerve centre of the city police’s overall command structure. Nor did they use the force’s wireless system to rally their men demoralised by the loss of several of officers, notably the heroic joint commissioner of police and chief of the Anti-Terrorism Squad, Hemant Karkare. Instead, one top official chose to station himself and two aides inside a bullet-proof vehicle parked at the National Centre for the Performing Arts Building near the Oberoi Hotel, thus cutting himself off from the broad flow of operations


and my response

I think the unfortunate ambush of the ATS chiefs made them wary. Knowing Mumbai politics and underworld nexus they didnt know if it was accidental or delibrate.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Chinmayanand » 13 Dec 2008 02:41

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/12m ... orists.htm
Some things just don't change -- even after the deadly November 26 Mumbai attacks.
In a shocking move, the Maharashtra Anti-Terrorist team has sent just two police officers to bring two hardcore Lashkar-e-Tayiba terrorists Fahim Ansari and Sabahuddin from Uttar Pradesh [Images] to Mumbai as part of the investigation into the Mumbai attacks case.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 13 Dec 2008 03:33

Seminar in Hyderabad.

News Item in Deccan Chronicle, 13 Dec., 2008

Lessons not learnt from Parliament attack

The Big Story
Despite successive governments promising to deal with terrorism firmly, India continues to be an easy target for terror outfits. Seven years after Indian Parliament was attacked on December 13, 2001, the counter-terror measures have not improved much.

Hyderabad, Dec. 12: Seven years ago, on this day, the Indian Parliament was attacked by a group of terrorists. On December 17, 2001, after a heated discussion in the Lok Sabha, the then home minister, Mr L.K. Advani, had dramatically declared that the fight against terrorism had entered a decisive phase.

But seven years down the line, India is still being bled by terrorists. Homegrown terrorists of the Indian Mujahideen (IM) as well as operatives from Pakistan and Bangladesh are carrying out strikes again and again.

And, as the Mumbai incidents proved, terrorists are also creeping into the country’s shores from the sea to carry out brazen attacks.

The Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LeT) and the Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) involved in the Parliament attack and Mumbai attacks are still thriving.

And creating a sense of déjà vu, Parliament has once more debated the menace of terrorism and has vowed to end it. In an unprecedented manner, the Prime Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh, apologised to the nation for failing to protect it.

But experts say that if the leaders want to move beyond rhetoric and keep their promise, they have to start doing the essential spadework.

For one, they have to totally revamp the intelligence system in the country. Terrorists continue to strike at the great symbols of India. After Parliament was attacked, they targeted the Indian Institute of Science and then they hit the 400-year-old Macca Masjid in Hyderabad.

In several of these cases, "actionable" intelligence was not available. In Mumbai, the sleuths had intelligence, but did not act on it. There are severe lacunae in the whole intelligence network.

"Every day intelligence officials send alarming reports and they are taken as routine affair," said Dr S. Subramanian, former director-general of the National Security Guards (NSG) and founder of the Special Protection Group (SPG). "There is no accountability."

The Border Security Force, Director General, Mr M.L. Kumawat, who also served as Union home secretary, said there was urgent need to upgrade and augment the intelligence network.

"We have busted at least 182 terror modules this year," he said. "But we should have busted more. For this, the intelligence network should become more modern."

Experts feel that even after the Mumbai blasts, there is no concerted attempt to enquire into the deficiencies of intelligence gathering.

"Removal of ministers was the easiest part of the post- mortem," said Mr B. Raman, former additional secretary of the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW). "But there seems to be an attempt to avoid a detailed study of the deficiencies in our intelligence and counter-terrorism apparatus. Public pressure should be kept up on the government to hold such an inquiry."

One major flaw has been the lack of coordination among the various intelligence agencies and the absence of mechanisms to share information.

"After 9/11, we have been holding joint counter-terrorism exercises with agencies of many countries," said Mr Raman. "But there is no coordination between various agencies within the country."

"The responsibility of an intelligence officer does not stop with his sending a memo or a note; there should be follow-up action," said the South Asian Analysis group director, Dr S. Chandrashekaran.

The next most important aspect is real-time physical security.

"Terrorists can strike anywhere. They should be denied opportunities to cause damage," said Dr Subramanian.

It is commonplace to say that suicide attacks cannot be prevented since the perpetrator is not afraid to die. But experts disagree. They say that strong preventive measures as adopted by Israel can deter suicide attacks too. "Israel is surrounded by 13 enemy countries but it is still surviving," said a senior police officer. "The modus operandi of suicide attacks in the sub-continent is also similar. They can be nipped in the preparatory stage."

The role of "non-state players" is also important. For instance, fishermen in Mumbai informed the police about the landing of a suspicious group, but the cops did not act on it. Similarly, hotels and lodges can inform the police about suspicious characters.

"The preparedness of police and security agencies must be on a war scale as the terrorists are waging a war against the country," said Mr Kamal Kumar, former director of the SVP National Police Academy.

Further, there is urgent need to improve security along the border as well as the coast.

The Indo-Nepal border is also porous and the ISI is sending in operators via Kathmandu.

After securing the fortress, India should launch a major diplomatic initiative to prevent Pakistan and Bangladesh from allowing terror groups to flourish.

"We have to stop the flow of funds and weapons to terror groups," said an officer of the counter intelligence cell of the AP Police.

Many states including AP have decided to set up special units to fight terrorists after the Mumbai attacks. "There is also an urgent need for a new Central agency," said retired director-general (security), Mr R. Swaminathan.

And experts say in one voice that the terrorists who are arrested should be given exemplary punishment. "The law should be a deterrent and we should make it certain that the perpetrators are punished," said Dr Subramanian. "In many cases, they are acquitted. In others, the trial goes on for years. This cannot be allowed."



A good collecion of suggestions by former police people. I wish they had been able to setup porcedures and lead by exmple when they were in service. More important is the serving officers if they also agree to these measures. And what do the RAW people think about the role of the intel officer does not stpo wih passing a memo.

I think need to remove the bureaucratic mind set of intel agencies. Its not 9-5 job.

Also note Mr. Kumawat's statment that they busted 182 cells/modules and should have busted more. This means he still thinks that the attackers had local support despite the info that they were all from TSP. Also in situations of low probability high consequence events aka black swan its the ones you dont get that get you. You are in the fourth quadrant and have to be extra cautious. Poor Mr. Kumawat paid with being transferred as BSF Director from his post in Home Ministry.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Gus » 13 Dec 2008 06:03

Ramana,

Potential misuse of POTA cannot be discounted. IIRC, JJ jailed Vaiko thru POTA for as many as 19 months. Vaiko was a sitting MP at that time.

As much as I disagree with Vaiko on his LTTE sympathising, I am against the idea of our politicians having this power. If the police is free from politicians, then maybe POTA can succeed. Definitely not with the current setup where politicians practically control the police in terms of who to arrest and beat the crap out of.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Keshav » 13 Dec 2008 06:15

Gus wrote:If the police is free from politicians, then maybe POTA can succeed. Definitely not with the current setup where politicians practically control the police in terms of who to arrest and beat the crap out of.


Even then, the police would still be an insular clique, where police statements can be made to seem truthful by other police officers vouching for them. Case in point, the American military has a hard time locking up rapists because groups of soldiers are willing to lie for each other.

Political control of the police force has to be removed but there has to be some oversight. In that, you could probably use a combination of private groups as well as governmental groups.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Lalmohan » 14 Dec 2008 01:02

politicians in all countries are able to subvert the police, recent case in point being dismissal/resignation of London metropolitan police chief because the mayor wouldn't back him - and this was in defiance of the Home Secretary; entirely party political shenanigans using the cover of the de Menezes shooting enquiery

however, in other countries, politicians are held more accountable than in ours... therefore the police can act more independantly

In India each CM and MLA treats his local police chief as a personal chaprasi and has the power to make him one (or transfer him)

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby joshvajohn » 14 Dec 2008 04:24

From India money flows in large junk into various secret accounts. I think funding of terrorist organisations are going in a free way and so there should be a track of all the suspected people's account even in private banks that are working in India. I clearly notice that Saudi oil money is given to the support of terror campaigns in the name of spreading Islam.

This should be watched and checked. If India wants to stop future attacks strategically stop/check

a. Money flow to the terrorists and their training

b. Supply of arms to these groups

c. big drug dealings through Mumbai and other cities to buy arms for these groups

d. people who have been to Islamic countries for a longer period time and get them registered

e. people who are from these selected countries where terror trainings are higher possibilities

f. bribing at the top government officials who can even give parliament entry ticket if they are bribed heavily or even provide all details of government offices and other important people's movement and plans of the buildings and so on

g. unregistered cars that are often used by the terrors to move around freely at times

h. all those who provide hospitality to these people


Government has to square possible places where these terrorist can get sympathy. Then make sure they have details of each inviduals and communities and their political and religious agenda in their hand. Who is speaking hotly and who can possibly motivate young people to become Suicide bombers.

If India needs to counter terrorism, she has to become very powerful. Powerful in terms of F -22s and so on without which India will be seen as a weak country. China will try to play between India and Pakistan as usual supporting even terrorist attacks indirectly by blocking in the UNSC. This gives clear indication to Pakistan that they can continue to carry out such attacks in spite of international codemnation and possible attacks. India has to consider buying heavy arms to combat attacks on the terror organisations, their training camps and their head quarters.

It is also essential to have squads who can intrude Pakistani borders attack and kill those leaders. In this case Israelis will be very helpful. Such plans should be ready for the next stage after the next attacks.

The argument is Pakistan government cannot prevent another attack because of the local political compulsions and also because of the threat of a military coup. It will continue to arrest people and put them in Jail but the problem of the poilitical theology of Islam which motivates killing of all other religious folks being justified by a few groups. Such ideologies are so popular at the grassroots of Pakistan people which indirectly provide encouragement and support to any group who is ready to kill infidels in India and also in US, Europeans or Jews or even Russians.

In this sense it is not possible to counter these theologies unless Pakistan government themselves does some thing reasonable to educate the public about their plurality. If one goes to grassroot Pakistani Muslim persons many of them do not find it as a problem to kill Indians particularly Hindus by the terrorists though majority would not justify such acts of violence.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby shiv » 14 Dec 2008 07:39

joshvajohn wrote:From India money flows in large junk into various secret accounts. I think funding of terrorist organisations are going in a free way and so there should be a track of all the suspected people's account even in private banks that are working in India. I clearly notice that Saudi oil money is given to the support of terror campaigns in the name of spreading Islam.


Joshvajohn - one problem is that India (like Pakistan) survives on cash dealings OUTSIDE bank accounts - except when the banks are outside of scrutiny.

Let me relate a story here that I have written before on BR but the last time I did not mention names. This time I will - just to indicate the types of people and stories that go around.

I have an uncle who is now on his deathbed who used to get involved with all sorts of shady characters including Nigerian email scamsters. One day he took me to met a person who claimed to represent our Prime Minister MMS's daughter whom he claimed had Rs 11,000 crores (About 2.2 Billion US$ ) in Indian rupees stored in offshore banks.

The problem presented was as follows:

a) There is all this money in a foreign banks
b) It is in Rupees and unusable abroad
c) It need to come to India and be ploughed into investments in India

The hurdles cited were

1) Bank-to-bank transfers would alert the financial system and create problems
2) It would be possible to route the money through private banks of Gulf Sheiks - but hose Gulf sheiks would take a huge commission - as much as 40%
3) Using Dawood/D company channels was possible but that too was unsafe and would mean getting involved with criminals

The idea was to find a non-criminal Indian who had a genuine company/business account in some offshore bank to which the money could be transferred in parts after which it could be legally transferred top an Indian account - with the Indian intermediary taking as much as 15%.

This may have been yet another 'Nigerian scam" but it is an indicator of the murky world of finances that might possibly have political and criminal connections.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Manny » 14 Dec 2008 08:20

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/de ... ndhati-roy (excerpt follows)

Mumbai was not our 9/11
November isn't September, 2008 isn't 2001, Pakistan isn't Afghanistan and India isn't America. So perhaps we should reclaim our tragedy and pick through the debris with our own brains and our own broken hearts so that we can arrive at our own conclusions.

It's odd how in the last week of November thousands of people in Kashmir supervised by thousands of Indian troops lined up to cast their vote, while the richest quarters of India's richest city ended up looking like war-torn Kupwara – one of Kashmir's most ravaged districts.

The Mumbai attacks are only the most recent of a spate of terrorist attacks on Indian towns and cities this year. Ahmedabad, Bangalore, Delhi, Guwahati, Jaipur and Malegaon have all seen serial bomb blasts in which hundreds of ordinary people have been killed and wounded. If the police are right about the people they have arrested as suspects, both Hindu and Muslim, all Indian nationals, it obviously indicates that something's going very badly wrong in this country.

If you were watching television you may not have heard that ordinary people too died in Mumbai. They were mowed down in a busy railway station and a public hospital. The terrorists did not distinguish between poor and rich. They killed both with equal cold-bloodedness. The Indian media, however, was transfixed by the rising tide of horror that breached the glittering barricades of India Shining and spread its stench in the marbled lobbies and crystal ballrooms of two incredibly luxurious hotels and a small Jewish centre.

We're told one of these hotels is an icon of the city of Mumbai. That's absolutely true. It's an icon of the easy, obscene injustice that ordinary Indians endure every day. On a day when the newspapers were full of moving obituaries by beautiful people about the hotel rooms they had stayed in, the gourmet restaurants they loved (ironically one was called Kandahar), and the staff who served them, a small box on the top left-hand corner in the inner pages of a national newspaper (sponsored by a pizza company I think) said "Hungry, kya?" (Hungry eh?). It then, with the best of intentions I'm sure, informed its readers that on the international hunger index, India ranked below Sudan and Somalia. But of course this isn't that war. That one's still being fought in the Dalit bastis of our villages, on the banks of the Narmada and the Koel Karo rivers; in the rubber estate in Chengara; in the villages of Nandigram, Singur, Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa, Lalgarh in West Bengal and the slums and shantytowns of our gigantic cities.

That war isn't on TV. Yet.


My comment: I hope someone gets their hand on her and all her supporters and tickles them to ecstasy! I also wish the The Guardian building gets painted yellow and someone gets to write an article celebrating that!

:evil:

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 01 Jan 2009 07:27

I was hoping someone would do some search for Bullet proof jackets and post links to see waht the options are in lieu of the razai vests that Indian police are saddled with.

Here is a link:
http://www.bulletproofme.com/

I would like a volunteer/s to summarize the SOTA of BPJ for police and military applications for SRR.

SOTA= State Of The Art

ramana

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Shreeman » 01 Jan 2009 08:32

Perhaps there is a lesson in this also:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=80 ... =351020401

ramana
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 05 Jan 2009 09:51

ramana wrote:I was hoping someone would do some search for Bullet proof jackets and post links to see waht the options are in lieu of the razai vests that Indian police are saddled with.

Here is a link:
http://www.bulletproofme.com/

I would like a volunteer/s to summarize the SOTA of BPJ for police and military applications for SRR.

SOTA= State Of The Art

ramana


No takers huh?

Combine this with the info in the MARCOS thread about the TATA made BPJ we have a winner.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 05 Jan 2009 10:51

X-posted....
KiranM wrote:My observations from Mumbai and WTC type attacks. Such terror modules basically have 3 sections:
1) Intelligence
2) Logistics
3) Operations


1) -> consist of locals / sleeper agents embedded into the local society. But they will be few in number. May be highly skilled in technical resources like communications, internet, etc. Carries out surveillance and reconnaissance of targets prior to strike. Carries out BDA post strike. Provides live intel about authorities' response for siege type operations / hostage scenarios lasting a long time. These chaps can have some idea about the attacks, a requirement for being effective in their job.

2) -> again consist of locals / sleeper agents embedded into the local society and as such can provide the means for transport, lodging, etc. But they need not have high skills. Usually they do not know the purpose/ details of the strikes for operational security.

3) -> the public face of terror we know. Consists of gunmen, bombers, etc

3) Countered only through response forces like police, NSG, RR, etc.

2) Can be trapped only by effective Counter Intelligence.

1) Prior to strikes again can be trapped only by effective Counter Intelligence. It will be all the more difficult since they can be trained for counter surveillance / countering Counter Intelligence. Effectively, top notch spies. However, unlike spies just stealing info, these guys can support the terrorists during the strikes and may be BDA after the strikes. This is when as we can trap them IMHO. Hence, me shouting for an embedded SIGINT in NSG. It may be too late to prevent the strikes. But unlike 3) and may be 2) being use and throw modules, 1) can be reusable modules. These chaps are few in number and hence prized. May be used for future strikes.



The key is early catching the sleepeers. However in India the sleepers are merged with minority votebank politics and its the INC and its lack of political base that is the root cause of this malaise.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 27 Jan 2009 03:06

Elite anti-terror force on anvil
Pioneer.com
Rahul Datta | New Delhi
Mumbai attack galvanises Govt to act fast

Jolted by the Mumbai terror attack, the Government is likely to give the go-ahead for the formation of a Special Forces Command with its own trained commandos, aircraft and other systems to deal with terror situations. The Special Forces would also operate behind the enemy lines in times of war.

The proposed Special Forces Command would be on the lines of similar formations in the US, Russia and Israel. In fact, the budget for the US Special Forces Command was more than the defence budget of several countries, including India, sources said here on Monday.

Once the Special Forces Command is in place, the Army would mesh these highly trained commandos with the National Security Guards (NSG) and also deploy them in case of any emergency, like Mumbai.

The proposal to raise the Special Forces Command was mooted a long time ago and the Army Training Command (ARTRAC), Shimla, was entrusted with the responsibility of drafting a concept paper. The concept paper has been gathering dust with the Government for over two years now.

The Mumbai terror attack seems to have galvanised the Government into fast-tracking the move, sources said. The Army has also speeded up the process of acquiring sophisticated arms and ammunition that would be used by the Special Forces.

Sources said the Government was likely to review the proposal for the Special Forces Command in this backdrop. Citing reasons for the renewed interest, the changing nature of warfare and role of terrorism and the role played by the US Special Forces during the Iraq war in 2001, sources said India has decided to put in place a top-class formation within a time frame.

Officials are studying the role played by the US Special Forces in the Iraq war to incorporate it in the mandate of the Indian Command. The US Special Force commandos landed in Iraq before the actual operations began and collected vital intelligence about strategic targets and key Iraqi military installations. The pinpoint intelligence helped the US artillery and air force to hit the targets with accuracy and avoid collateral damage and cripple the Iraqi military communications network.
....

Countering Terror

Terror attacks force Govt to set up Special Forces Command
Outfit to have own trained commandos, aircraft and other systems to deal with terror
Will also operate behind enemy lines in times of war
To be on the lines of formations in the US, Russia and Israel
Proposal mooted a long time ago and Army Training Command was asked to draft a concept paper
Army speeds up process of acquiring sophisticated arms, ammunition for the Special Forces

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Philip » 27 Jan 2009 13:42

While we can debate what needs to be done to deter terror,making it more difficult for the enenmy to attack us this way,the other lesson,how to respond militarily to a futre terror attack still seems elusive,.This piece might have beene arlier reported from a different source,but it bears much relevance to this thread.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KA21Df02.html

Indian army 'backed out' of Pakistan attack
By Siddharth Srivastava

NEW DELHI - Reluctance for battle by an ill-prepared army could have resulted in India not launching an attack on Pakistan in the aftermath of the Pakistan-linked terror attack in the Indian city of Mumbai on November 26 in which nearly 200 people died.

High-level government sources have told Asia Times Online that army commanders impressed on the political leadership in New Delhi that an inadequate and obsolete arsenal at their disposal mitigated against an all-out war.

The navy and air force, however, had given the government the go-ahead about their preparedness to carry out an attack and repulse
any retaliation from Pakistan.

Over the past few weeks, it has become increasingly apparent from top officials in the know that the closed-door meetings of top military commanders and political leaders discussed the poor state of the armory (both ammunition and artillery), and that this tilted the balance in favor of not striking at Pakistan.

According to senior officials, following the attack on Mumbai by 10 militants linked to Pakistan, India's top leadership looked at two options closely - war and hot pursuit.

Largely for the reasons cited above, the notion of an all-out war was rejected. Hot pursuit, however, remains very much on the table.

The government sources say that a framework for covert operations is being put in place, although India will continue to deny such actions. Crack naval, air and army forces backed by federal intelligence agencies will be involved. The target areas will be Pakistan-administered Kashmir and areas along the Punjab, such as Multan, where some of the Mumbai attackers are believed to have been recruited.

The coastal belt from the southern port city of Karachi to Gwadar in Balochistan province will also be under active Indian surveillance.

Thumbs down to war
Following the Mumbai attack, New Delhi's inclination was to launch a quick strike against Pakistan to impress domestic opinion, and then be prepared for a short war, given the pressures that would be exercised by international powers for a ceasefire to prevent nuclear war breaking out.

The expectation of New Delhi was that the war would go beyond the traditional skirmishes involving artillery fire that take place at the Kashmir border, essentially to check infiltration by militants, or the brief but bloody exchanges at Kargil in 1999.

It was in this context that the army made it apparent that it was not equipped to fight such a war, given the military's presence along the eastern Chinese borders, and that India was at risk of ceding territory should an instant ceasefire be brokered with Pakistan.

This would have been highly embarrassing, not to mention political suicide for the Congress-led government in an election year. So instead, New Delhi restricted itself to a strident diplomatic offensive that continues to date, and the option of hot pursuit.

The air force, on the other hand, was confident that it was prepared to take on the first retaliatory action by Pakistan, expected at forward air force bases along India's borders in Rajasthan, Gujarat and Indian-administered Kashmir. The role of the navy in the operations was not clearly defined, but it was to cover from the Arabian Sea.

Not ready to fight
Various experts, former generals and independent reports have voiced concern over the past few years about the state of preparedness of the Indian army.

For example, the Bofors gun scandal of the 1980s stymied the army's artillery modernization plan, with no induction of powerful guns since the 1986 purchase of 410 Bofors 155mm/39-caliber howitzers. The army has been trying to introduce 400 such guns from abroad and another 1,100 manufactured domestically, without success.

The latest report by the independent Comptroller and Auditor General said the state's production of 23mm ammunition for Shilka anti-aircraft cannons and 30mm guns mounted on infantry combat vehicles lacked quality. Further, supply was nearly 35% short of requirements.

India's huge tank fleet is in bad shape due to a shortage of Russian spare parts, while indigenous efforts, such as the main battle tank Arjun, have failed.

Signs of trouble emerged during the Kargil war when it was revealed that India's defense forces were dealing with acute shortages in every sphere.

In remarks that underscored the problems, the then-army chief, V P Malik, said his forces would make do with whatever was in hand, given the fears of a full-scale war that was eventually avoided due to pressure by America, then under president Bill Clinton.

The Kargil review committee report noted, "The heavy involvement of the army in counter-insurgency operations cannot but affect its preparedness for its primary role, which is to defend the country against external aggression."

Although there have been attempts to hasten India's overall defense modernization program, estimated at over US$50 billion over the next five years, gaping holes need to be plugged, including corruption and massive delays in the defense procurement processes.

India's defense expenditure has dipped below 2% of gross domestic product for the first time in decades, despite experts pegging 3% as adequate.

Other defense arms are in dire need of enhancement. Fighter jet squadrons are much below required strength, while the bidding process for medium fighter planes has only just begun and may take a few years to complete.

Meanwhile, the prospects of an India-Pakistan conflict are not over. India's army chief, General Deepak Kapoor, said last week that Pakistan had redeployed troops from its Afghan border to the western frontier with India. "The Indian army has factored this in its planning," Kapoor said.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Baljeet » 27 Jan 2009 23:16

Phillip
We have read this info and debated many times. We have no solution today or in near future. Regardless of what COAS says, Netas say, we as a nation need to modernize at level of defcon2, meaning war is imminent. A good start will be to revamp the pay plan for Military, give them what they want, that will boost morale. Recover from Bofors dementia, CBI Amnesia or any other deficiency. Make critical decision that are best for nation not to stroke the ego's of few people. Crack a whip on DRDO, GTRE if they don't produce in one year they will face corporate restructring. Dead weights will be fired. Unless we do this all lessons will remain paper education.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Bhaskar » 28 Jan 2009 09:36

Here is another Lesson learned....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/National_body_for_unique_IDs_set_up/articleshow/4038757.cms

NEW DELHI
: As part of the gigantic exercise to provide unique identity (UID) numbers to the citizens, the Centre has notified the setting up of
the National Authority for Unique Identity (NAUID) and asked nine states and four Union Territories (UTs) to provide details of coastal villages by February 1 so that the task to create a database for issuing the cards to villagers can begin.

UIDs — an integral part of the ongoing Multi-Purpose National Identity Card (MNIC) scheme — will be issued to citizens living in coastal villages of Gujarat, Maharashtra, Goa, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Orissa and West Bengal by 2010. The UTs, which will be covered under the first phase, are: Dadar and Nagar Haveli, Lakshadweep, Puducherry and Andaman & Nicobar Islands.

"The decision to issue UIDs to residents of coastal villages has been taken in the wake of the 26/11 terror attack which exposed their vulnerability. The scheme is likely to cover the entire country by 2012," said an official.

The identification number will be provided by NAUID, an entity under the Planning Commission. It will work in coordination with the office of the Registrar General of India (RGI) which has been working on the National Population Register.

The identity cards proposed to be issued will be micro processor chip based cards which will information of each individual, his/her finger biometrics as well as photograph.

A unique "National Identity Number" will be assigned to each individual including those below 18 years of age. This number will become a "link number" with any other application of the state government.

Currently, the government is in the process of implementing the MNIC scheme and creating a National Population Register (NPR), which will have data on identified characteristics for each individual along with the 2011 Census.

NAUID will be responsible for creating and maintaining the core database and laying down all necessary procedures for issuance and usage of UIDs, including arrangements for collection, validation and authentication of information, proper security of data and rules for sharing and access of data.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby pgbhat » 28 Jan 2009 10:25

I die a little every time GoI :(( on response to mumbai massacre

Interview: Pranab Mukherjee in Al Jazeera



In his first interview with international media since the Mumbai attacks, in which more than 170 people were killed, Pranab Mukherjee, India's foreign minister, tells Al Jazeera’s Riz Khan how the attacks affected his country and what he believes must now be done.

Riz: Minister, people say America changed completely after 9/11. In what way do you think India has changed after Mumbai?

Pranab: It has rudely shocked the Indian people. The depth of outrage which the Indian people, political forces, intelligentsia from all walks of life felt that is unparallelled mainly because of the audacity, ferocity and also the duration of the terror attack.

India is one of the worst victims of terrorism for almost two decades but this attack in many respects was unprecedented.

Mumbai is especially known to be able to bounce back even after the troubles it has had in the past. In what way is it different this time?

So far as the people's approach and spirit of accepting the challenge is concerned, they immediately came back to normalcy and that is characteristic of the people of Bombay. Therefore in that way there is no difference.

But the depth ... of the sense of outrage is enormous all over India and not merely in Mumbai. This may be because of technology ... people watched for almost 60 hours over the television screens all over the world. So that’s why it had a very deep impact on the minds of people.

India claims that Pakistan is not doing enough to catch those who are responsible for the attack. Is it that they are not doing enough, or can't do enough?

Yes, one way you can make a differentiation that they are deliberately doing or that they are incapable of doing, but as far as India is concerned, the net impact is the same, whether somebody is capable or not capable, the impact is that the perpetrators ... are launching terror attacks from the territory of Pakistan.

The infrastructural facilities there, used by them, committing crimes in India, not necessarily in this case but in a large number of cases in the past.

Going back to Pakistan and taking shelter there – these do not give us any comfort to make a fine distinction whether the state authority there is doing it deliberately or they are incapable of taking any action. The impact is the same, the result is the same.

So your statement that "all options are open with Pakistan" obviously has a lot of people speculating what India might do or what India might be willing to do.

As far as you see it, what is the limit of action that India is willing to take?


We expect Pakistan to act.

Whatever is to be done from our side we are doing so ... but Pakistan is to act because the handlers and the planners were from Pakistan. Therefore, we expect Pakistan authorities to fulfil their commitments.

Not once but twice, at the highest level, the president of Pakistan committed to the Indian prime minister – once in 2004, January, and again it was reiterated in September 2008 - that Pakistani territory would not be allowed to be used by the terrorists, but it has been happening.

Therefore ... we are demanding from Pakistan only three things: dismantle the infrastructural facilities, take strong actions against the perpetrators of terror attacks and look for the fugitives of the Indian law who have committed crime here and have taken shelter there.

How do you respond when Pakistan says it is a victim of terrorism? It's a victim of terrorist attacks and extremists, and many accept that Pakistan itself is developing very large lawless areas which are out of the control of the government. What's the option?

But that does not mean that Pakistani authorities or Pakistani government will shrug their responsibilities. After all how do we function in the international community, in the community of nations?

Every country is responsible to protect its territory, to protect its citizens and also to ensure that their territory is not misused by miscreants to cause trouble in the neighbouring countries.

Whatever be the nature of the state, complexities of the situation, these responsibilities cannot be avoided.

The media of course covered what was going on, and as you say it was an unusual situation – more than sixty hours of coverage on TV, people across India got to see what was happening.

How do you avoid a complete collapse in relations with your neighbour, because people here might call for blood because they see it with a very emotional view and don't try to be a little more pragmatic about the fact that not every Pakistani is responsible for what happened?


We never said that ... We have never accused, we have stated elements emanating from Pakistan. :evil:

We have excellent relations with people-to-people. Normal diplomatic relations are continuing. :roll:

In a broader sense, how do you find the new leadership of Pakistan? Are people like president Asif Ali Zardari and prime minister Gilani, are these people who India can do business with?


It's not a question of the individual. Individually they may be very fine. I have no complaints against any individual but as I am repeatedly saying, I expect the government to act.

Whether it's a military regime, whether it's a democratic regime, we are the victims of a terror attack. During president Musharraf, who was a military ruler - of course he got the mandate as far as their constitution that is a different thing - but during his period our parliament was attacked, during the democratic regime, terror attacks on Mumbai take place – what’s the distinction?

Now president Obama says that he is going to focus on Afghanistan. That's a key area for him and of course India believes that the focus should be on Pakistan. Who has it right? Where do you think the focus should be then? I mean that if Afghanistan and Pakistan are interlinked in some of the problems, he is looking Afghanistan and you are looking at Pakistan.


Of course the terror problems of Afghanistan and Pakistan are emanating mainly from the same areas - the border areas.

Therefore, we ourselves have articulated that problem of Afghanistan to fight against terrorist forces cannot be de-linked with appropriate measures taken in Pakistan and believe that involvement and full co-operation from Pakistan is necessary.

Are you optimistic that things can improve with the political, or at least foreign policy, agenda that the new president in the US has?


Let us hope so. There is no harm in hoping. :roll:

India lobbied very successfully for the new envoy to the region, Richard Holbrook, to avoid really including Kashmir and India in his brief and focus more on Afghanistan and Pakistan, now doesn't that limit what he can do? Doesn't that limit what kind of regional influence he can have to improve relations?

You know, so far as India is concerned India is interested in improving its relations with all its neighbours.

We believe in the very basic fundamental truth that we can change our friends but we cannot change our neighbours ... and it is in the interest of the region that we can create an atmosphere which will be tension-free with the neighbours. But at the same time neighbours are also to play a role.

The attacks in Mumbai provoked outrage around the world
India is having excellent relationships with all our neighbours. We are having good relationship with Pakistan, except for these terror attacks.

In the last four years, particularly the last four years I am mentioning, there has been substantial improvement. We are talking of trade; we are talking of economic co-operation. In fact, when the attack took place, Pakistan's foreign minister was my guest. We were having a discussion just a couple of hours before that attacks began in the hotels.

Therefore it is not that we have completely cut off our relations ... what we expect is that the issue should be focused. The issue is not the India-Pakistan relationship ... the issue is how to tackle the problem of terrorism, how to tackle the problem of terrorism emanating from Pakistan. The elements which are operating from Pakistan and how to eliminate those elements.

Much of what you are raising here has its root in the conflict that India has had with Pakistan over Kashmir. And President Obama has said that Kashmir is on his radar and that India, as a rising economic superpower, should live up to its status in that respect and do something. To what extent do you see that there is pressure for some kind of resolution when it comes to Kashmir?

First of all, we should have to understand certain facts very clearly. Kashmir is an integral part of India like any other province or state of India.

If somebody believes that Kashmir is not a part of India, I am afraid no Indian is going to accept it ... In respect to Kashmir not once, but on several occasions both Pakistan and India agreed that this will have to be resolved through bilateral dialogues.

That is why we have built up a mechanism - which we call [the] composite dialogue mechanism ... [but] it is quite obvious unless these issues which we have raised and the perpetrators of the terror attack are dealt with and brought to justice, [the] situation cannot be as usual.

Has the issue of Kashmir become too much of a raw nerve for both Pakistan and India? Recently the UK foreign minster David Milliband was in India and he made a major statement on the issue of Kashmir, saying that the resolution of the dispute over Kashmir would help deny extremists in the region one of their main calls to arms and allow Pakistani authorities to focus more effectively on tackling the threat on their western borders.


I am afraid that this is nothing to do with Kashmir. Terror attacks are to be taken separately and it is part of the fight against global terrorism.

For us there is not a problem. People of Kashmir are regularly voting. Very recently in a massive number they have voted, they have elected a government. they have their constitution.

The Foreign Secretary of the UK has made these observations and during our talk I made it quite clear to him that we do not share his perceptions.

Now on the issue of US relations with India, India’s lobby power in the US seems to have increased a lot. It’s seems to have become far more focused. Some people are saying that it's almost comparable to the Israeli lobby that exists. Is that a fair assessment?

I am not agreeing with that type of assessment but surely I would agree that our relationship between India and the USA has increased substantially and the latest example is of the signing of the civil nuclear co-operation [pact] and the amendment of their atomic energy act ... [which] has removed the isolation of India in the nuclear trade, which we were suffering for the last 34 years.

I was in India when Hillary Clinton as the first lady with President Bill Clinton came to India, and she has now, as the secretary of state called and said to take the relationship between India and the US to a new level. What do you see that new level to be?

Of course I had a talk with her, a telephone conversation. I congratulated her and she also wished that we would like to work together. The relationship is expanding.

It'll be multi-faceted – it is already multi-faceted, and naturally, it’ll be further different, further expanded. That is the new level she is talking about.

Minister, how do you see India’s rising status on the world stage? It might actually become some kind of negotiator, some kind of mediator, a bigger voice in some of the conflicts taking place around the world.

In fact, in our modest efforts we try to maintain peace, tranquillity in our immediate neighbourhood but also in the extended neighbourhood.

I am just giving you an example when there was trouble in one of our Himalayan countries, our neighbour Nepal, we persuaded the political parties which resorted to guns and violence, the Maoists in Nepal, that they give up violence [and] participate in the mainstream national political activities.

They agreed, listened to our advice and now in collaboration with other democratic parties they formed the government, they are leading the government.

In our immediate neighbourhood, [within] the architecture which we have formed - SAARC [the South Asian Association for Regional Co-operation] - we are the maximum contributors for economic development.

Our interaction with ASEAN [the Association of South East Asian Nations] ... is to contribute our efforts in the overall global development and by development I do not merely mean economic development, but also in maintaining peace and tranquillity.

Our interaction with Africa - almost all 54 African countries - has expanded substantially. A large number of African students are coming and having various types of training in educational facilities in India.

We are presenting ourselves as a help or as a friend and we are not imposing anything which they do not want. We want to be collaborative in the efforts of development.

Do you see India with its rising status being more of a global player when it comes to intervening or perhaps negotiating in international issues? Is that an interest of yours?

You know we have some relations with Israel but I must not say that we share many international perceptions or that we have many common perceptions ... you must keep in view that we established full fledged diplomatic relationship with Israel recently.

National elections are coming up in India. Of course you are a leading figure in the Congress Party, a veteran politician here and highly respected. How do you think the Congress Party will do this time?

I am hopeful, of course as a party man, always we work for the success of the party ... the latest provincial assembly results indicate that Congress has good chance.

And do you feel that the wave of post-Mumbai - the wave of the mood of the Indian public - might work against the Congress Party?

The elections which were held immediately, and the one particularly in Delhi was held when the attack was going on, and the election results have been quite successful and it was in favour of Congress.

Three consecutive terms Congress won the provincial elections, which is almost rare in any province in any part of India.

Of course, a lot of people are looking to the economic state of their own countries to see where their governments might go.

In India you were actually a member at one time of the board of governors of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, and of course India, to some degree, was sheltered from the financial distress the world has had. At least it’s got, many people feel, a buffer and better potential.

How do you see the shape of India economically in the coming years, looking at what’s going on around?

Well you know for the last few years we are having a steady economic growth and our annual average GDP growth was nine per cent.

In fact, it was the second highest growth in the world economy but as our economy is linked with global developments, as every country is linked today with other countries ... we cannot insulate ourselves totally to the global developments and therefore the financial crisis will have some impact on our economy.

This year our projected growth has come down from nine per cent to around seven per cent. The exact figure will be known after couple of months.

But at the same time our economy is not going be affected as adversely as many other countries because our economy is directed substantially towards domestic demands and domestic expenditure.

Of course, India’s growth is phenomenal. A lot of people predict that within four decades India's economy will be bigger than United States but the disparity is still huge here between the rich and poor.

To what extent in that period of time can you see some sort of equality emerging, some kind of trickle down - at least that there is less of a gap between the rich and the poor?

We no longer believe in the trickle down theory. We do believe that poverty, deprivation, lack of development is to be attacked frontally. Therefore the growth strategy that we are contemplating is of inclusive growth.

State intervention is more effective. Investments from the state sectors are much more compared to other sectors. That is the developmental strategy we are having and it is paying good dividends.

I can give just one example – perhaps India is the first developing country to give the legal right to the rural unemployed youth to have the job for at least a hundred days for a minimum fixed wage.

This legal right we have given to the unemployed youth in the rural sector to address the problem which you are talking about and we are expanding these types of programmes.

Is that factored into the economic growth of India? Because of course when you start creating these kind of programmes it will have a visible impact on the economic shape of India.

It will have good impact, it will not have any adverse impact. It did not stand in the way of attaining nine per cent of GDP growth.

One thought as we do this interview, you are about to head off to Sri Lanka, which of course is going through a bit of a transition with the government making some headway against the Tamil Tigers and taking over a lot of the areas the Tamil Tigers held.

How do you see the relationship with Sri Lanka going and how do you regard what's happening right now with Sri Lankan Government's push against the rebels?


We are concerned about the plight of the civilian population, we have no sympathy for any terrorist organisation and the LTTE [Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam] is a banned terrorist organisation.

India has outlawed the Tamil Tigers as
a 'terrorist' organisation
It is banned in India because one of the top leaders of them is an accused ... [of being] involved in the assassination of the former prime minister Rajiv Gandhi.

But we are concerned about the plight of the civilians who have become the hapless victims of the conflict of LTTE and the Sri Lankan armed forces.

We are requesting the government of Sri Lanka that they ensure the safety and security of these civilians, ensure them food, shelter and medicine in which they are of utter need. Of course some food relief material we have sent through the international organisations. Our high commissioner there is fully involved in it.

In 1987 an agreement was signed between India and Sri Lanka to ensure the ethnic rights of the minorities in Sri Lanka within the frame work of the Sri Lankan constitution and maintaining the territorial integrity.

We are suggesting ... [the] implementation of [the] 1987 act - where there is an important component of self-governance to the people of the ethnic minority - so that the legitimate aspirations of the ethnic minority are fulfilled within the frame work of the Sri Lankan constitution without affecting territorial integrity.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby SSridhar » 29 Jan 2009 07:01

Now president Obama says that he is going to focus on Afghanistan. That's a key area for him and of course India believes that the focus should be on Pakistan. Who has it right? Where do you think the focus should be then? I mean that if Afghanistan and Pakistan are interlinked in some of the problems, he is looking Afghanistan and you are looking at Pakistan.

Of course the terror problems of Afghanistan and Pakistan are emanating mainly from the same areas - the border areas.

Therefore, we ourselves have articulated that problem of Afghanistan to fight against terrorist forces cannot be de-linked with appropriate measures taken in Pakistan and believe that involvement and full co-operation from Pakistan is necessary.


Our terror problems are coming from West Punjab, from the PA, from the Pakistani government, from the Islamists and the politicians.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Sanjay M » 29 Jan 2009 11:16

Biggest Lesson Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks:

Wait until just before the next elections, and then hire some local hoodlums to beat up some girls, and call them the 'Hindu Taliban'. Keep doing this over and over, before each election, and keep yourself in power for 20 years. Goodbye democracy, hello Madame Jiang.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Prabu » 08 Feb 2009 17:38

Shivani wrote:Equipment: Steel spike strips.

In India, we use lightweight mobile metal barricades to try and stop rogue vehicles, but spike strips which destroy the tires and thus immoblilize the vehicle have to be added to the list of equipment. They should be available to traffic police at all intersections and posts in all citites.

Usage:

As soon as there are reports of criminal activity in a particular part of a city, or intelligence report that terrorists are moving in certain vehicle on certain road, strips should be deployed immediately and only vehicles that have been verified safe be allowed to pass through.

A three stage barrier should be created. A spike strip. 40 feet down the line there should be barriers. 20 feet behind barriers there should be a second spike strip. This will stop terrorists who try to ram through, and greatly limit their options of escape.

Benefit:

This will not render the criminals or terrorists useless -they will shoot at bystanders, traffic and policemen at the checkpost-, but it will certainly delay their plans as they try and hijack another vehicle. It will also give time to security forces to attack them in this moment of vulnerability.



Excellent ! We should improve our tools and gadgets used.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Dilbu » 08 Feb 2009 19:24

Lesson learned from Mumbai attacks: Nothing ever changes in India.

Btw what is the latest update on the colour of SRK's chaddi in his next movie?

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby sum » 08 Feb 2009 19:45

Dilbu wrote:Lesson learned from Mumbai attacks: Nothing ever changes in India.

Btw what is the latest update on the colour of SRK's chaddi in his next movie?

:rotfl:

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby asprinzl » 08 Feb 2009 20:46

Lesson 1: Until there is a complete house cleaning in Delhi nothing will ever change in India. There is a higher possibility of the sun rising in the west than mental change in Delhi.

Action Needed: send everyone in Delhi to the gallows and start anew.
Avram

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Manny » 08 Feb 2009 22:59

We will wipe out terrorism: Chidambaram
"Our responsibility to terror would be strong, strict, precise and decisive. Our policy to terror is of zero tolerance and we will follow it and we will wipe it out," the minister said.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby John Snow » 09 Feb 2009 00:21

We will continue to learn lessons and TSPee will continue to teach us. It serves us right.

We have no end game plan nor will we ever have vision, because we are in hand in glove with TSP as its profitable to the million mafia who rule us billion people.

There is no terrorism in India. It is just citizen lives in exchange for money and turf by the ruling party in collobration with mafia to rule clueless people.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Gaurav_S » 24 Feb 2009 07:23

This is a MUST watch video where Times Now news reader and Sohail talks hard and puts his views on India against terror- bang on spot!!!



Anyone from Mumbai been recently to Gateway of India and Taj. Have some security been in place now..?? 3 months has past these attacks and situation is still same.

We have developed habit of talking hard at the time of attacks but these things go in air within matter of few days.

Lets be honest to atleast ourselves. There is no one in central govt who really wishes to end this game. Neither Shivraj had nor Chidambram has balls to clean this mess. Pranab is just a joker. Enough of plans..plans and plans...

I hope celebs, honchos and other prominent figures in society start taking things in their hands and make these politicians do some ground work by literally forcing them.

Lesson 1: Dont forget this Mumbai attack and start taking actions

Lesson 2: If we think we are starting to forget then watch this video again

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby sum » 24 Feb 2009 09:28

Could you please provide the link to the video?

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby LokeshP » 24 Feb 2009 12:39

the UPA spent solid 5 years in office and at the fag end of its term it realizes that radical Islam is much more than just a few misunderstood youth trying to show their frustration.

i'm not sure how long UPA's or atleast INC's memory will be, but i think it would be safe to say that they have learnt this simple lesson: you can never put away radical Islamism like it is nothing, because it has the power to do crazy things, which you might not expect even in your dreams. i believe the top leadership has learnt this lesson (Chidambaram, Mukherjee, and a few others). ofourse, Sonia and Manmohan will be seen discussing "strategies for a constructive way to disengage the misunderstood youth from showing their frustrations in a manner that defames Islam," and therefore needs "consideration at the highest level," at some conference or the other 20 years from now, if Manmohan is still alive by then.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Gaurav_S » 25 Feb 2009 09:27

sum wrote:Could you please provide the link to the video?


Sorry, here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ3d_598sK8

All the 5 parts are worth watching.


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