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Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

enqyoob
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby enqyoob » 04 Dec 2008 07:11

Div, is the old project still alive? Seems like time to revive some things.... (sigh! so many Pakis, so little time and energy!)

Div
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Div » 04 Dec 2008 07:14

Unfortunately not; too many other commitments...not enough time. :|

chakkunny
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby chakkunny » 04 Dec 2008 08:40

Cross posting from the Response to Mumbai Attacks thread:

BR Productions - Kaun Banega Obama?

Rakshaks,

It is apparent to almost everyone on this site that unless and until India gets a radically different leadership things will obstinately remain the same. At the same time, I have not seen any proposal as to how this key change can be bought about. Sure one can appeal to the like minded people or evangelize (or whine) the next time this topic comes up for discussion. Every suggested response that was cited is ENTIRELY dependent on whether or not the people at the helm of affairs find it in their interest to do things differently.

After some thought, I have decided to pop a proposal that I believe is implementable.

Premises:
a. Indians watch a lot of TV.
b. Reality/Competition shows are somewhat popular among Indian audiences
c. Biggest obstacles for deserving people to enter politics are as follows:
i. Money to sustain themselves and their campaigns until they make a name for themselves
ii. Vulnerable to goondagiri from the scum who currently hold power
iii. Do not know or will not play dirty
iv. Cannot get media coverage as they are not inclined to throwing rocks or agitating in public, preferring to be problem solvers and not rabble rousers
d. Mumbai is a media production powerhouse and the capital of show biz


Proposal:
a. Find a producer who can produce a reality show for wannabe politicians
b. Producer finds a panel who are not politicians and are considered to be honest, well respected, accomplished in their respective fields.
c. Public is invited to mark themselves as candidates
d. Candidates are subject to intense grilling by panel, with each episode focusing on controversial topics and current affairs of the day
e. Pre season is for vetting candidates from say a 100 to maybe 10. The 10 are vetted by the panel.
f. When season begins, the public call in their favorite candidates.
g. After half the season, the candidates get eliminated one per episode
h. Season is timed to conclude 2-3 months before elections.
i. The winner takes home ENOUGH money to fund (as per CEC regulations) 20 - 30 seats in a parliamentary election which he/she can spend for campaigning in the next election - while being subject to oversight from the panel.

The hope is that:
a. The show will get decent numbers given the large prize money and the hot topics on debate.
b. Winning candidate gets enormous positive news coverage.
c. Politics will get a real new face - perhaps for the first time after so many decades
d. India will get a new leader, who represents hope for real change.

PS. Although I am a fan of Obama as a person, I do not agree with all his priorities and positions. However he does represent an outsider who made it big on the sheer power of his charisma, oratory, and positivity he brings about.

Now does anyone on BR know a producer in Mumbai ?

Lalmohan
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Lalmohan » 04 Dec 2008 18:18

talking of tv - i was trying to find more evidence of the 'bitch-gate' episode where burkha dutt verbally abused Nidhi Razdan on live tv whilst thinking they were off air, for criticising pakistan - in the process i realised that i had been confusing Nidhi with Sunetra Chowdhury - ooops! Either way, both ladies have done a great job of being sane and measured during the past few days whilst others appeared hysterical

SwamyG
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby SwamyG » 04 Dec 2008 18:24

Is there a link to the video where Burkha says "bitch"? Was it 'shut the bitch down' or something"?

Mahendra
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Mahendra » 04 Dec 2008 18:27

Agree that Boorkha Dutt is hysterical

She seemed to completely lose it when the crowd at Nariman house were cheering the NSG commandos and raising some anti pakistan slogans in between, she forced the NDTV crew to cut off the audio, her behaviour strikes one as wierd, perhaps she feels for the terrorists Afzal and girly boy who will be pest a shaheedized soon. Boorkha needs to be sacked, just like Deshmook and the Patils

enqyoob
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby enqyoob » 04 Dec 2008 18:34

No, she is afflicted by mushophilia, as was Pamela con Stable of the Washington Post. There is cure for this. She needs to be rewarded with a FREE trip to scenic areas - Khyber Pass, Kandahar, Paktia, Wana. O. con Stable came back from one such trip and promptly retired. Something about chronic diahorrea after being in a convoy where she got to see some black-turbaned types as they put a few of her co-mushophiliacs out of their misery. Apparently the Cavalry appeared on the scene before the BTs could get to her.

Neela
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Neela » 04 Dec 2008 18:42

Folks
im planning on a Net campaign to target two people.
- Barking Dutt
- Sagarika Ghose.

Of couse given her run in with a Admiral recently, PADMASHRI Dutt gets to appear first.

It is most likely to be a blog.

A lot of this information has come from these threads.

For those of you willing to contribute, please send links, anecdotes articles to
Chandramohan . Usecure gmail . com

Also send a title for thise blog.
I am thinking : traitorwatch

enqyoob
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby enqyoob » 04 Dec 2008 18:45

nah-nah-nah-nah onlee!

"traitor" gives them too much credit. How about "idiotwatch"? Or, "Brilliant Cabbages"?

Shreeman
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Shreeman » 04 Dec 2008 18:57

Neela wrote:Folks
im planning on a Net campaign to target two people.
- Barking Dutt
- Sagarika Ghose.

Of couse given her run in with a Admiral recently, PADMASHRI Dutt gets to appear first.

It is most likely to be a blog.

A lot of this information has come from these threads.

For those of you willing to contribute, please send links, anecdotes articles to
Chandramohan . Usecure gmail . com

Also send a title for thise blog.
I am thinking : traitorwatch


Promote Laxative : think julab . Ms. Dutt is unlikely to be perturbed by a blog, but your should start one, regardless.

Neela
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Neela » 04 Dec 2008 18:58

N3 saar, its Padmashri B.Dutt. Thats why the word traitor.

Inder Sharma
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Inder Sharma » 04 Dec 2008 19:10

[quote="Shreeman]. Ms. Dutt is unlikely to be perturbed by a blog, but your should start one, regardless.[/quote]

No shreeman, they are quite susceptible to online criticism. A very potent blog anti-media warfornews@blogspot.com was closed down by these people using all the available options.

Burkha, Sagarika,Toilet, all of them used their power in the print and e-media to try and discredit the blogging world. Infact, burkha even went to the extent of asking for a monitoring agency for the bloggers.

Neela, for your blog to be important to make a dent, it must be regular, often, must be read by a wide section (most importantly, ensure participation by media ppl themselves, it is they who would the juiciest revealations, so if necessary, be gossipy about them)

fanne
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby fanne » 04 Dec 2008 19:40

Why can't we start a 4th section of bloggers, restrict that to media watch only and preferably to Burkha who cries Bitch, Sagarika ghosh (whose father was instrumental in getting foreign media in India and later India head of star news, Hooker prize winner, dhat teri ke, (she famously said in TSP, I believe before Gul, I know orgasm, you can talk about it), Shekhar omlette chor Gupta (who in TSP had said that TSP should take care of the IA, he will take care of the BJP govt). For Mehta (the erstwhile editor of Debonair) and Purefool. These clowns have no standing, som 5 lakh people read their views, but they are evil, I say ignore them. This is a long list, I usually don't read them, I have BP issues.
rgds,
fanne

Neela
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Neela » 04 Dec 2008 21:20

fanne wrote:Why can't we start a 4th section of bloggers, restrict that to media watch only and preferably to Burkha who cries Bitch, Sagarika ghosh (whose father was instrumental in getting foreign media in India and later India head of star news, Hooker prize winner, dhat teri ke, (she famously said in TSP, I believe before Gul, I know orgasm, you can talk about it), Shekhar omlette chor Gupta (who in TSP had said that TSP should take care of the IA, he will take care of the BJP govt). For Mehta (the erstwhile editor of Debonair) and Purefool. These clowns have no standing, som 5 lakh people read their views, but they are evil, I say ignore them. This is a long list, I usually don't read them, I have BP issues.
rgds,
fanne



Wasnt it the BJP which allowed the foreign media in India.
I remember Ramana mentioning this sometime back

ramana
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 04 Dec 2008 23:01

fanne wrote:Why can't we start a 4th section of bloggers, restrict that to media watch only and preferably to Burkha who cries Bitch, Sagarika ghosh (whose father was instrumental in getting foreign media in India and later India head of star news, Hooker prize winner, dhat teri ke, (she famously said in TSP, I believe before Gul, I know orgasm, you can talk about it), Shekhar omlette chor Gupta (who in TSP had said that TSP should take care of the IA, he will take care of the BJP govt). For Mehta (the erstwhile editor of Debonair) and Purefool. These clowns have no standing, som 5 lakh people read their views, but they are evil, I say ignore them. This is a long list, I usually don't read them, I have BP issues.
rgds,
fanne


you need an umbrella blog on Indian media watch and have separate pages for these worthies and their anti-naitonal acts. BTW to ensure credibility praise them once in a while so it isnt dubbed as anti-press freedom.

And what are you guys waiting for? should have been done long ago with inputs from the Psy-Ops and media watch threads.

Rahul Shukla
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Rahul Shukla » 05 Dec 2008 00:42

WORLD AT RISK - The Report of the Commission on the Prevention of WMD Proliferation and Terrorism (Clicky)

"It is more likely than not that a weapon of mass destruction will be used someplace in the world prior to the end of year 2013," the commission's chairman, former Senator Bob Graham, told journalists in Washington on December 3.

"We also found that it was more likely that that weapon would be biological than nuclear."

"Were one to map terrorism and the weapons of mass destruction today, all roads would intersect in Pakistan," the report says.


John Snow
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby John Snow » 05 Dec 2008 02:16



better use those few before even they vapourize no?

All Indians are tuned to exentuate what can not be done rather than do something ( like blast a hole in the bastion and storm the citidel).

No cant be done, its expensive, when it becomes its cheapo not worth it. no?

John Snow
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby John Snow » 05 Dec 2008 03:43

Image

Note that the belt all along the TSP border is now ruled by Taliban.
Read this

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23612315/how_we_lost_the_war_we_won

The Amerikhans are losing big time in Afghanistan toTaliban.

There is quid pro quid with TSP.

Make India pay we will let off the seige

Bush admin want to leave with something to show in Afghanistan, The new Obama team let the cat out ( The SD is full of anti India so is Kompani) saying K needs to be solved, by fluke or luck GOI did something to ward off that.

then read the current events
then read the Rice boiling in Nai Delli and then going flat in Islamabad ( the usual routine)
Then the media western goes into tizzy
The India DDM and SUper Dumb Dork ana lysts lick up every a x sqaure + b y square = constant square, on every gora to show their Psecular credentials.

See kompani has white color revolution in India going.

Prem
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Prem » 05 Dec 2008 04:00

Color revlution stated in India after 98. Decade latter ,the impact is showing in working of government institutions and Dhimmi plus Gunga Deeni behaviour of social elites. The masses are being manipulated with propoganda using visual and printed media tools.

ramana
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 05 Dec 2008 05:01

A whole bunch of stories from Deccan Chronicle, 5 Dec 2008

Government for tracking system for fishing boats


New Delhi Dec. 4: The government, in a move led by shipping minister T.R. Baalu, is pushing for the installation of low-cost boat tracking systems in India’s 1.5 lakh fishing trawlers. The use of the coastal route by terrorists to sneak into Mumbai has exposed the vulnerability of the country’s 7,516-km coastline. The Directorate General of Shipping is putting in a request to the Indian Space Research Organisation to expedite this project on a priority basis.

Senior sources in the Navy point out that the demand for such a tracking system has been pending with the government for some time and could not be executed due to funding constraints. Admiral Arun Prakash (Retd) said the system will include the installation of a small beacon in these trawlers which will respond to a radar system. “This will help monitor the location as well as provide other details about the boat. At present no system is available by which such details can be made available,” he said.

For the present, only boats which carry more than 300 tons of goods have been fitted with an automatic identification system (AIS) but this is not the case with the majority of Indian fishing boats. “By fitting this devise, any unidentified trawler can be immediately spotted,” Adm. Prakash added. Although this is not an expensive device, one of the main reasons why this scheme had failed to take off was because the majority of fishermen had found the price (approximately Rs 5,000) prohibitive. “It needed government intervention, especially since its cost was expected to run into a few hundred crores,” said a naval source.

“The government will have to set up a marine police force to monitor these trawlers because there is no way that the Navy or Coast Guard can be expected to monitor so many boats,” pointed out Vice-Admiral Vinod Pasricha (Retd). “Every morning, these are thousands of trawlers plying across Indian waters. At present, if any boat has to be checked, coastal or naval guards will have to use the services of a smaller boat to reach these boats, which cannot be stopped because their nets get stuck in the propellers,” said Vice-Adm. Pasricha.

Monitoring is further complicated by the fact that there are multiple agencies looking after the registering of each fishing vessel. The Navy has also mooted the idea that fishermen be used to assist in the surveillance process, especially around the Sir Creek area along the Gujarat border which has been found to be highly vulnerable to terrorist activity. Multiple sources of checks can be used to further enhance security. The Navy has 100 ships but their task is to fight enemy warships. They cannot patrol the shallower waters used by fishing trawlers.




BJP’s nod to federal agency plan of Centre


NEW DELHI Dec. 4: The country is expected to soon get a Federal Investigative Agency (FIA), on the lines of the FBI in United States with the main Opposition BJP giving its nod to the proposal mooted by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh at the all-party meeting following the Mumbai terror attacks.

The Opposition’s green signal came when home minister P. Chidambaram met senior BJP leader L.K. Advani on Thursday to seek consensus on the agency. Though Mr Advani promised “full cooperation” with the government for enacting a “federal security law” and establishing a “federal security and investigating agency”, there were riders to the promise in terms of keeping “the Opposition informed about various steps and consulting it”. The government is planning to bring an ordinance on setting up of the federal agency due to urgency and political consensus is expected to facilitate this move.

Earlier, the government’s move to form a federal investigating agency was turned down after as many as 24 states wrote to the home ministry decrying the move. Sources said the newly-appointed home minister drove to Mr Advani’s residence and apprised him about various aspects of the proposed agency that will have powers to probe all terrorist-related incidents occurring in the country. The home ministry, under newly-appointed home minister is virtually working overnight to complete the modalities for setting up a federal investigation agency as mooted by the Prime Minister.

“Security is a great national concern. The home minister is seized of the matter,” science and technology minister Kapil Sibal told reporters on Thursday after a meeting of the Union Cabinet, when quizzed over the issue of federal agency. “I can assure you that each of those policy statements that the Prime Minister committed to the nation shall be implemented as soon as possible. Time is of essence,” he said.
Dr Singh had announced strengthening of air and maritime security, creation of four NSG hubs.

Security increased at oil refineries, govt buildings


New Delhi/Bengaluru Dec. 4: Even as there is an alert on possible terror air strike at India’s prime international airports at Delhi, Bengaluru and Chennai, there’s a reportedly an Intelligence input on similar attacks on the oil refineries and power grids in the country. The Centre has strengthened security in all government buildings, particularly Parliament. The security in Parliament, which saw a bloody attack in 2001, has been tightened as newly-dug bunkers have come up at the Vijay Chowk side of the edifice. CRPF jawans with black headbands can be seen peeping out from these structures. “Quick Reaction Teams (QRT’s) of paramilitary forces have been stationed at strategic points around Parliament,” an official said.

“We need a high-level preparedness to counter these attacks. There’s some unconfirmed information that the militants may attack the oil refineries to cripple the Indian economy completely. A radius of 20 km around the refineries should be made a restricted zone with immediate effect as a necessary precaution. The security at the power grids is fool proof; they need constant surveillance,” said an official source. Movement of journalists is also being curbed as only PIB accredited journalists are allowed to enter in government offices.


NSA had series of meets with PC


NEW DELHI Dec. 4: The working of the Central intelligence agencies have come under the scanner of the UPA government with home minister P. Chidambaram holding daily meetings with National Security Advisor M.K. Narayanan. Intelligence agencies like IB, RAW, NTRO are under government scrutiny for their failure to avert the Mumbai terror attack despite specific intelligence inputs received by the agencies. The NSA has had a series of meeting with the home minister following Mr Chidambaram’s new appointment on Monday. Mr Chidambaram has said that the intelligence set-up will get a revamp very soon for getting “actionable inputs” to prevent any future attacks by terrorists.

“The home minister has been holding meeting with the NSA every day reflecting government’s seriousness in strengthening the intelligence network,” a home ministry official said. Sources disclosed that the home minister met Mr Narayanan twice on Wednesday. Ministry sources said the emphasis of the government is now on better coordination of intelligence and security agencies to make the intelligence inputs actionable at the ground level. The government is also giving priorities in acquisition process for systems and platforms, including radars, vehicles and interceptors. Mr Chidambaram has also been holding a series of meetings with home secretary Madhukar Gupta and director of Intelligence Bureau P.C. Haldar.

Dance bar closure hit info web :shock:


MUMBAI Dec. 4: Police inspectors believe their human intelligence network has been hit in a big way because of the closure of dance bars in 2005. This is because they believe that a lot of underworld elements that could have led them to such terror grids had bar girls as mistresses. Many of these bar girls were on the payroll of the police. So far, the police has not been able to establish whether or not there was any kind of local assistance given to the 10 terrorists who carried out their attacks last Wednesday. However, senior police inspectors believe that an operation of such magnitude certainly would have required logistical help from locals.

“When dance bars were open, we had bar girls, waiters and even customers as our informers. Whenever a patron spent a lot of money or gave a lot of jewellery, we used to be tipped off by these informers. But, ever since they have been shut down, we have lost out on precious tip-offs about the underworld which is also connected to terror outfits,” said Mr Pradeep Suryavanshi, senior inspector, Andheri police station. Orchestra bars that repla-ced the dance bars have very little to offer people who flock to see girls dancing. While bar girls still work at orchestra bars, they are not allowed to work beyond 9.30 pm.

D-funds in terror attacks


New Delhi Dec. 4: Central intelligence agencies, as well as revenue intelligence wings engaged in tracing the funding of the Mumbai terror attacks, have indicated that D-Company played a major role in providing funds to carry out the terror operation. Sources in the intelligence agencies say, mafia don Dawood Ibrahim is closely associated with Al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Tayyaba and several other terror groups operating from Pakistan. “On the basis of available inputs we can definitely say that money did not come from hawala channels for carrying out the Mumbai operations,” said a source, adding, “Officials who are investigating the case have seized several credit cards of leading private banks from the terrorists. The transactions on these credit cards are being scrutinised.”

{Didnt that Kasab turd say they robbed the dead of credit cards? So another wild goose chase?}

There have been cases in the past when terrorists have used credit cards. “We are definitely investigating the role of D-Company in providing funds for the Mumbai terror attacks. D-Company provides funds to Lashkar and Al Qaeda. It is now officially a part of the LeT terror network. The ISI’s links with D-Company are old. There is a possibility that D-Company might have organised funds for this attack just as he did for the 1993 Mumbai stock exchange terrorist bombings,” said the official. Dawood Ibrahim ran a substantial hawala operation out of Mumbai, Karachi and Dubai. He is believed to have acted as an Al Qaeda surrogate for several financial transactions, said the source .

Meanwhile, the financial intelligence unit of the Union finance ministry has been asked to examine the cards seized in Mumbai to ascertain their issuing authorities and places where they were used. The concerned banks are also being contacted, said the official. Terrorists might have used credit cards to make their payments, said the official. We have also contacted the Taj and Oberoi hotels in this regard, said the official.


Trident Hotel to be open for guests Dec. 21


New Delhi Dec. 4: The Trident Hotel in Nariman Point, which was attacked and taken over by terrorists of the group now known as the Deccan Mujahideen, for nearly 50 hours, will be open to guests from December 21, company officials said.

In a press release sent to media houses on Thursday, an Oberoi group spokesperson said, “A round-the-clock effort is underway by the management and staff to ensure that the hotel is ready to receive guests. The hotel will reopen about three weeks after it sustained damage during the terrorist attacks in Mumbai on November 26.” The security in the hotel will reportedly be enhanced in order to ensure the safety of guests as well as its staff.

At a press conference taken at the Intercontinental Hotel on November 29, Mr P.R.S. Oberoi, chairman, Oberoi Group said that they would be consulting security experts while enhancing the security at both the Trident as well as the Oberoi hotels. The Oberoi group has also requested law enforcement agencies in this regard. Mr Oberoi had also said that while the damage to the Oberoi was considerably greater than that to the Trident. The assault on both hotels on November 26 resulted in the death of four resident guests, 18 visitors who were dining in the restaurants and two staff members.


chandrabhan
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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby chandrabhan » 05 Dec 2008 14:59

Whenever I watch any news, I see outraged faces, some numb, others shouting profanities against the politicians. I can understand the anger, gone through it lot of times but it is time for calm head and ask some relevant questions. Well they are small yet profound.
1. How did it come to this? The nation with the sinews of steel and Vedanta for wisdom suddenly turns chicken in the past 5 years. Why? We have fought Christian insurgency in North east, Fought Hindu(ULFA) insurgency again in North east, Sikh insurgency in Punjab and exported muslim insurgency in kashmir. Suddenly what happened.
I think the answer lies in the victory of BJP in 1998-99.With their victory and the fear mongering of the congress and Pseudo-secular media along with the communists Indian muslims got really insecure as they have always been voting en-mass for congress as an alternative to RSS Politics. Moreover with the introduction of laws like POTA, a huge hue and cry was raised regarding their misuse and this further alleviated muslim fears. To the shock of many, congress came back to power in 2004, which they themselves could not believe and thus started the demise of idea called India. They were worried by the defection of their traditional vote bank and to get it back they repealed POTA and rendered the state toothless wherein their own state government in Maharashtra continues to use a law that is replica. Result - 4000 deaths in 4 years in blasts and no convictions while we feed the culprits with tax payer money.

2. What re our intelligence agencies doing? They are supposed to be one of the best? They were created by the hard work of 'The sardar' who refused to divide it with Pukistan. They are supposed to be guarding this Idea called India, what happened and why is so much of turf war going on? ,/b>
To understand we need to go back in 1966. A worried Indira Gandhi calls up the IB chief and askd him to track the whole sale food grain prices in the country as she is worried that inflation may cost her elections. Cut to MMS and 'The Incompetent'. Shivraj 'The incompetent ' patil wants to know what article is getting published about him n tomorrows news papers. he calls up the IB chief to send men to spy. Who is guarding India? some 14% officers only. so who will analyse the sea of data generated?Sorry, Ramvilas paswan also wants to know the chances of Mayawati in his state of bihar as Laloo wnats to know the discontent against Nitish but off course - IB has to find the answers. Complete political subjugation.
Raw has become a joke, so no comments.

3. Why is government in a denial mode about local complicity?
Again, we have to go back to 1947 in the Era of Sardar. he has just withdrawn his name after 'bapu' asks him to do so even if congress men elected him the leader 12 votes to Sardar vs 0 for Nehru.
There is a cabinet meeting going on after a few weeks. Nehru walks in and says " Vallabh Jabbar( or jawahar) bhai Patel, Why are the properties evacuated by muslims not going to muslims only? This is my order and I am the prime minster." Sardar listens and says, " This country belongs to all, There are hindus and sikhs too who have lost properties in now pakistan land, they have a first right on this. Moreover , I don't want to make many small pakistans on this land. Population must stay mixed." Result Nehru complaints to Gandhiji who refuses to interfere after Sardar tells him that Local muslims are attacking Indian officials in Aligarh and Junagarh and he will not see symbols of state representing people's power being attacked like this.
Then was that 'sardar' and there is this! Thoo !!! what pity my motherland?

4. What can be done now? How do we win this war that is being fought for 26 years? Why does not Sonia and her bandicoots bring back POTA under any name? what other solution

There is only one way to fight terror. As KPS Gill puts it , " You can never out run them, you just have to take out eye for an eye. Infact 2 eyes for one and every one of your teeth , take out their whole jaw along with their parents." I have always said that Terror can only be fought with greater terror. How do we do it? Bring back POTA but UPA can't do it as they are looking at muslim votes . Moreover they have been opposing it for past 5 years now if they get it back they will have to admit their mistake. They are going in knots and so is the country.

Second thing urgently -please put all these Bhai- Bhai idiots, specially the ones born in Pukistan, in Jail, specially the Kuldip nayyar types who continue to burn candles. They have made the state complacent. I remeber , how the cops who gave punjab back to India, died fighting human rights cases and in penury. These Dhoti roy( that opiumated anaemic ***** writer) and barkha dutt types should be put behind bars and executed. These people are dangerous along with the whole gang of Pronoy, Rajdeep, Vikram and others along with these NGO's.How dare these guys kall Northern areas of Kashmir as Azad Kashmir, It against an act of parliament and a fit case for onvoking NSA. Let me tell you , fighting terror is dirty business, if you harrase the fighter like this, you are condemned as a nation to die like this. complete immunity for the security forces is the only solution.

Please bring POTA back and appoint fast track courts for speedy justice and free the IB and put under the supervision of this court.

5. Why so much of hue and cry this time

This answer is that for the first time the rich and mighty have been affected directly. How shamefull it is to see Channels talking about Taj Hotel as if it was mahatma gandhi's Samadhi. They have completely forgotten CST. Why? It 's because their advertisers don't travel by trains, they dine in luxury hotels. There was a bomb blast in Assam yerterday, 5 people killed. how many people talked about it, none. How many people have died in the carnage at jaipur, delhi, Bangalore and Mumbai trains before? where were these Channels? The answer is, there is no value of to the life of 'Stupid common Men'. After he elects a govt he himself just becomes a number. This common men whose forefathers fought for this nation(While most of today's elite were busy licking Brit balls except for Birla, Bajaj Modis and few others) and holds the ideals of this country together has just become a number.

This common men who teaches their children to join the forces and love the country more than their own life. This common men whose son's and daughter are fighting to save this idea called India on the icy peaks of Himalayas , deserts of Rajasthan, Jungles of Mizoram, waters of Cochin does not even know if he will come back home, safe in the evening. He is still doing it because he still have faith in the wisdom and knowledge of his elite brethren who got educated in the colleges subsidised by his income. faith, that his brethren will create a just society where he will have his share on resources.

His offsprings are being denied the basics - a meagre raise of Rs1400 per month for jawans while we give 3 crores to one Olympic shooter.The politicians he elected to serve him have become the masters and the new rulers. They fly around in the planes bought by his tax money while he is dying on railway platforms waiting for his soldiers to reach him as they are delayed as they dont have their won plane. Jawan keeps on struggling for his pension, job after his retirement at age 35, food, education for kids. You name it. Stiil, He has faith but now he is loosing patience and his dreams are watching this fallacy of democracy narrowly.

India, is badly let down by the educated. They abdicated their responsibility so that they can continue their hold on resources and exploit them. The people who owe 100's of crores in debt to public sector banks but dine and wine in Taj and Oberoi, who are giving qoutes and are planning to flee the country to UK/ US. This stupid common men can not even reach his home.


There was a 'Sardar' who created nation out of 565 riyasats and then we have this Sardar.


Who are the keepers of idea called India?

[*]The details on deaths and bomb blasts have been varying in various forums, so apologies.
[*]I heard about this particular cabinet meeting from an old family friend - ICS hand
[*]KPS Gills statement i heard on TV and some excerpts from various debates on TV channels

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby anupmisra » 05 Dec 2008 16:18

During all this time, what' up with Arundhatti Roy? What has she been up to? Heard any sympathies for the porkis from her?

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Chinmayanand » 05 Dec 2008 16:49

Can someone care to explain , how Federal Investigating Agency will be different from CBI ? And what is the guarantee that it will not serve its political bosses as CBI,CID,state police do ? Will it really make a difference ?

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby krishnan » 05 Dec 2008 16:55

lessons? What lessons? Did delhi attack teach any lessons? Did kargil teach any lessons? They all did, but did the so called govts care to learn from those lessons?

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Tanaji » 05 Dec 2008 17:20

Actually the idea of a blog about Burkha is excellent. A targetted approach towards her would yield a lot of juicy tid bits. The approach should be all pervasive i.e. editing of entries in Wikipedia, blogs, Orkut etc.

Once you have a sufficient number of articles, we can register a domain such as www.barkhaduttantics.org or www.brayingbarkha.com or www.barkhasburkhaunveiled.org

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Singha » 05 Dec 2008 19:30

I knew it, I knew it - the former head of SAS and a guy involved in the iranian embassy raid have
given their sober assessments.

and here is the court jester Australia doing the andrew symonds thing!

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/nsw ... 17734.html

NSW police ready for unlikely Mumbai-style siege

December 6, 2008

Could Sydney cope with 10 gunmen on the loose? Rick Feneley and Geesche Jacobsen report.

In the days after the Mumbai terrorist siege, NSW police made contact with Sydney's Indian and Pakistani communities. Did they have concerns? Did they have intelligence about any potential terrorist threat to Australia?

"Obviously, Mumbai is of great interest to us," Assistant Commissioner Peter Dein, of the NSW Police Counter Terrorism and Special Tactics Command, said in an interview with the Herald this week. Australian authorities have had almost daily contact with Indian intelligence services since 10 men with guns and small explosives killed 188 people and held Mumbai in their spell for three days.

But does this kind of urban terrorism pose a new challenge for Sydney and other Australian centres? Seven years after the September 11 attacks - and the epic scale of that atrocity - are we prepared for a strike far less ambitious: 10 men with guns and grenades on a killing spree in four or five simultaneous assaults across Sydney?

Is this the new modus operandi for terrorists?

"No," says Carl Ungerer, national security project director with the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. "These attacks were the stock in trade of terrorism since the 1960s. If anything, they showed a lack of imagination and ability. Guns and bombs will remain the terrorist weapons of choice … this is terrorism 101."

Echoes of Munich. Back to the future. But could 10 men kill as many people in Sydney before anyone could stop the bloodletting? "Certainly," Ungerer says. "They could kill as many people. But the reaction time of police and intelligence agencies would be shorter and the siege situation would be resolved sooner."

Some of the Indian police were armed with no more than bamboo sticks when they pounced on the only Mumbai terrorist to survive the siege. Australia's tactical response - from state police to the SAS - is clearly better equipped.

"A situation like Mumbai is amongst the most taxing scenarios that one could imagine in the context of multiple sites to deal with," says the AFP's deputy commissioner, national security, John Lawler. "That will consume resources. Multiple sites are very challenging." Another challenge was that the Mumbai scenario was so mobile, he said.

And Assistant Commissioner Dein concedes that a high death toll is possible, and points to the massacre of 35 people at Port Arthur. That was not politically motivated but, he says: "One man with one gun can do an enormous amount of damage."

In Mumbai, some senior counter-terrorism police were killed early on in a firefight with terrorists. Deputy commissioner Lawler hopes this would not happen here but says it is a reminder this is dangerous work. "Terrorism leads to very significant loss of life not only in the broader community in an indiscriminate way, but also amongst those government officials that might be responding."

But, he says, authorities have emergency succession plans in place, should senior leaders be killed.

Dein, however, says Mumbai has not forced a rethink on NSW's counter-terrorism strategy. That is because it had already been preparing for this kind of attack.

"We can't lock ourselves into specific scenarios," Dein said. Otherwise terrorists could exploit any weaknesses.

This week, his command conducted the "Mars Explorer" exercise, which involved hostages. Last week was "Sudden Impact", an exercise simulating bomb attacks on a transport hub. In recent months there was an exercise involving a ship. The Mumbai attackers hijacked a ship before going ashore in inflatable rafts.

Dein acknowledged the potential for a water-borne attack given the number of "icons which are obvious attractive targets" on Sydney Harbour. Police had established contact with the Opera House and hotels, which were well briefed on how to react to a terrorist threat. Most of the city's critical infrastructure is in private hands, but Dein said his business contact unit had been "proactive" in contacting them.

Hundreds of businesses had already joined NSW's counter-terrorism business network. On the website secure.NSW.gov.au, a self-risk assessment tool prompts business owners to answer questions. If their risk reaches a certain level, it triggers an automatic alert to police, who then make contact. Dein urged businesses to use this tool.

Ungerer says Australia is better equipped than most countries to deal with terrorist threats.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby John Snow » 05 Dec 2008 20:25

Image

NSA/CMG at work in Delhi Candid Camera shot ( I am risking my life as this was shot in RAW mode :mrgreen: )

My Border collie for whom I get Garlic bread from Olive Garden (note the Italian connection) :mrgreen:

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Neela » 06 Dec 2008 14:25

http://indiamediawatch.livejournal.com/

Barkha Dutt: Self-conceit and lying on the record.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby SSridhar » 06 Dec 2008 15:56

The lesson we have to learn is to understand the Paki thinking, lying, deceit, perfidy, hatred etc. by carefully reading all their analyses that appear in. Here is one by one of the RAPEst of them all

This is a point in history where India and Pakistan can either swim or sink together.


This is to be interpreted as a stark warning to India. Each analysis junk that appears in Paki newspapers issue a similar warning: We are going down and we will take you down as well.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby kshirin » 06 Dec 2008 19:28

There is one important lesson - some in the Western media are relentlessly focusing on Kashmir and so called Hindu-Muslim divide in India and victimisation of Muslims in India -they are trying to legitimise terror strikes on India and deflect Al Qaeda to India - they have been trying to do this for sometime now, deflect attention to India. No one is commenting on communal solidarity held in the aftermath of horrendous strikes this year or carrying reports of solidarity expressed by Muslims across India with their Hindu neighbours. Seems like they are succeeeding. Pakistan is only too happy to steer jihadi anger towards India, plus the fact we are a soft target with no options left against the return address because of N-threat - no I do not agree that we can countenance the destruction of even 1 Indian city - our each city is 100 times betetr than all of Pkaistan.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Keshav » 08 Dec 2008 23:25

Manu wrote:With Islamic Terrorism, we will have to become a Police State with unprecedented levels of security to fight this menace. And also, our political leaders, of all parties, will finally have to realize that a good section of the IM are radicalized. But under the current UPA, in my view, we are doomed.


I'm going to assume you said this out of anger and not out of any serious political considerations. Everyone is complaining about politicians and the police and you want to let them have omnipotent power to run the country? Come on man, this doesn't even make sense.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby shiv » 09 Dec 2008 05:59

chandrabhan wrote:3. Why is government in a denial mode about local complicity?
4. What can be done now? How do we win this war that is being fought for 26 years? Why does not Sonia and her bandicoots bring back POTA under any name? what other solution


The reason really is because - believe it or not (and people will slam me for this) - a particular vision of dharma, or justice.

The political parties know fully well that a politician who controls the police force (with neither party being accountable) will use POTA to intimidate and eliminate inconvenient political opponents. (i.e the political class are themselves afraid of POTA)


Using my own cooked up figures as an example: POTA should be looked at as a fuzzy law which when applied will catch 80% terrorists and 20% innocents. But when you remove POTA the chances of catching innocents is brought down to maybe 5%, but only 30% of terrorist are caught.

The government and polity are all agreed on the need for a firm law but realise that under the present circumstances (I will explain "present circumstances below) POTA is only going to be an "on again- off again" law.

The "present circumstances" are a level of law and order in the country in which

1) The police are underfunded and under trained and corrupt
2) The police are under the control of politicians
3) Politicians have criminal dealings and use the police as their personal hit-men to selectively punish or selectively ignore.

Because of these factors POTA becomes a deadly tool in the hands of minor and corrupt politicians and police officials. Governmental opposition to POTA is an acknowledgement of this fact.

For POTA to be just and efficient we need a system that is largely not corrupt - with police personnel of high integrity and nationalism, politicians of high integrity and nationalism. But high integrity and nationalism means no votes. Nationalism itself will make you lose votes to localism (local caste versus lipstick wearing faraway Mumbaikars). High integrity means that the neighborhood crook will use extortion money to bribe slum voters and defeat you unless you can do the same to him.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby enqyoob » 09 Dec 2008 06:09

I am spamming this all over, no apologies. ACT!
OK, folks, please propagate this one far and wide. It hits the right spots.


Please Don’t Use My Tax Dollars To Fund Terrorism
http://www.petitiononline.com/NoPak/petition.html

SIMPLE MESSAGE: STOP FUNDING PAKISTANI TERRORISM: THE LIFE YOU SAVE MAY BE YOUR OWN, OR THAT OF SOMEONE YOU LOVE!

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby jrjrao » 09 Dec 2008 06:35

Oops, wrong thread...

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby John Snow » 09 Dec 2008 07:25

n guru done myself will ask fellow indians (& family to sign).
Thanks for the great initiative.
regds

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby ramana » 09 Dec 2008 10:27

Shiv, Doesnt POTA require a magistrate to commit the suspect to sessions? Isnt there a habeous corpus provsion to review the commitment periodically two to three months? or is it a case of not trusting the judge?

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby VikramS » 09 Dec 2008 10:34

A lot of food for thought, especially since there is talk about POTA etc. I was surprised by the last line about police casualties. Also John Snow, what do you feel about getting transferred 27 times in 9 years?

http://suchetadalal.com/blog/?p=30

I am posting a message from Ashish Gupta, sent to me by a top senior revenue service officer. It has already been forwarded to a few hundred people, so I assume there is nothing confidential about it.

Gupta, like my other police friends expresses great anguish about the death of Ashok Kamte in the terror attacks on Mumbai in November. It is a rare man who evokes such respect and admiration from his fellow officers… Kamte’s demise is truly a loss and it is a bigger tragedy that many of us have got to know about this brave, sincere but low profile officer only after he is no more with us.

But I post this, not as a tribute to Ashok Kamte – I expect my police friends to take the trouble to write about him rather than merely talk about their feelings.
I am posting Gupta’s message because he is currently posted in the PMO and writes movingly about force and the need to understand the circumstances in which they work.

I agree with Gupta when he says the police force is hated (or at least distrusted by the ordinary person today). They are seen as people who will fix anything for a price. And why not, they would think. If the going rate for a constable’s job is Rs two lakhs and each transfer, especially to lucrative postings costs a lot of money, why would they waste time protecting the people?

They are running an enterprise and the government job and uniform is just a license or permit. It is also a job with astonishing powers over ordinary people. Look at how the police routinely pump “the accused” with chemicals called the ‘truth serum’? If these chemicals (which are known to leave lasting damage on the brain) really worked, why don’t we know who killed Arushi Talwar? Shockingly, the Indian media is so happy to grab leaks of so-called confessions of people pumped with this serum that they don’t ask questions. The police also play a big role in corrupting the lower judiciary and the kick-backs from various magistrates courts go several layers up their hierarchy. Postings at courts depend on their ability to keep the food chain thriving. That is one reason why cases go on forever.

The police clearly need to wake up to some internal cleaning – while we the people fight to get them better equipment and training. Will they please prove to us that better resources will be used for public good and not against the public? We have no signs of that as yet!

The same goes for the government’s revenue agencies and India’s bureaucracy. The revenue agencies are mostly venal and spineless and have no compunction jailing honest people, cooking up and fabricating a case and using the extremely corrupt lower judiciary to create a nice network of illegal ‘wealth creation’. I have seen this first hand.
IAS officers have actively supported their political bosses in delaying infrastructure development and tinkering with policy for corrupt gains. They have also helped the neta class to pre-empt over half the security force and resources for VVIP protection.

Where are the honest officers when this is happening right at the next table or the next cabin? They bury their heads and pretend not to see or hear. Nobody, but nobody, stands up to object to wrongdoing. At best, they quit the system. I am sure some of you will say that the same applies to the media. Well, yes it does and the media suffers the same credibility crisis. Things will change if we on the inside demand accountability from those who are within our own fraternity, even if it makes us unpopular. But how many of us have the courage to do that?

Fortunately, this time Mumbai has sent a clear and unequivocal message that they are not interested in they sympathy of politicians. It took over a week before the neta-class got the message. Until then, several politicians had put their foot in their mouth. Now they are staying away.

Read what Ashish Gupta (CSE 1987 IITK and an IPS officer - he’s at the PMO now) has to say. I sympathise with him, but lets see some internal clean up too.

Dear friends,

As I write to my batchmates of business school, I grieve the death of my batch mate of IPS – Ashok Kamte in the terror attack in Mumbai. Kamte was a very bold, professional, sincere cop who was also a National level weightlifter – very brave and handsome. I grieve his death. But the reason I write to all of you is this -

Another Terror attack in Mumbai and I expect the same stereotype stand from the political parties, same response from the media and the same anguish and feeling of helplessness from the public. Rightly so, they ask, what is the Government doing about it? The opposition parties will exploit the situation to say that the Government has been soft on terror, should invoke POTA like legislation to curb terror, should hang Afzal Guru, etc. If legislations stop terror attacks then Maharashtra should have been safe – it has MCOCA in place (MCOCA has all the ingredients of POTA). Even Delhi has DCOCA, but the terror strikes happened here too. If deterrent strong action of hanging terrorists is an answer, then Punjab terrorism should have being put to an end after hanging the assassins of Indira Gandhi. But it did not. While legislations and awarding deterrent punishments are very essential in our fight against terror, then are by no means
sufficient to put an end to terror.

The public at large rightfully ask – if US could stop terror attacks after 9/11, why can’t our security system do the same here?

Friends, we will continue to have such attacks till we as a nation and as a society do not decide to invest in the police of the country. We expect a first-world police reaction from a third-world police. You will be surprised to know that even today many of our police stations do not have vehicles. As for connectivity amongst police stations, while police stations (PS) have radio communication sets (RT sets), in some States the PS do not have an extra battery to keep the sets working – this means that they switch open their RT sets every two hours to check if there is any event of any consequence! This is when even the poor in our country can afford mobile sets! We still have weapons that are outdated. We have no centralized database to check on identity of person detained.
This implies that if I detain a suspicious person in Delhi and he says that he belongs to some village Begumangalam in district Nalgonda in AP, I have no way to immediately verify his identity - unlike the US where a centralized databank will let you check his antecedents in a matter of few seconds. While there is about 1 policeman for every 300 people in US, in India we have one policeman for every 1000 people – and mind you the cop of US is supported with technology, communication and cyber connectivity and vehicles, which increases his capabilities manifolds.
Cases take decades to get conviction, unlike the US where it is disposed off in a months time. What will a criminal be afraid of if he is not punished? Police leaders are hardly kept in their places of postings for a significant time so that they can improve situations – I, for example, have been transferred 27 times in 9 years of active policing in UP!!! Political insulation from professional work does not exist. We always talk of Intelligence failure – but what infrastructure we have there is a matter of concern. There are many more issues of manpower, equipment, infrastructure and the like. But we as a society are not bothered – or is it that human life, and more so a life of a policeman, is too cheap? Or is it that we are not aware of the deficiencies in our security systems?

Each political party will make use of another terror attack as an opportunity to malign the other and claim that it will improve security situation when it comes back to power. As if POTA or hanging Afzal Guru will! The reaction of the Government is also on the same lines – will legislate a strong anti-terror law, will create a federal agency, will bring in police reforms, etc. Haven’t we heard the Governments in power repeat the same after each terror attack, but still nothing happens. All political parties, whether in power or outside, are the same. They misuse the police system to meet their selfish ends. Unfortunately these terror attacks are only ‘action events’ for the media to keep people hooked on to the TVs. But hardly we have informed and consistent discussions in media to improve the security situation.

Friends, the reason I write this mail is because I feel that you all need to make yourself aware of the realities of the police. Police is hated, to say the least. But because it is hated, you don’t keep yourself away from the malaise and refuse to raise a voice to improve it. Police impacts you on a day-to-day basis – your sense of security and dignity depends upon that. But why do we, educated people, not raise enough hue and cry so that the political parties are forced to change the policing system and hence improve your security? Friends, please become aware of the realities of policing and beware of rhetoric of political parties – the solutions they offer are superficial and will not improve security situation. You can’t build an edifice of security organisation with a weak and hollow foundation.

Excuse me for my outburst and discontinuous thoughts – I kept writing what ever came to my mind. But please make yourself aware and let others know where the lacunae lie and build public opinion so that security systems improve. Else please be prepared for mindless killings and falling policemen (by the way, did you know that the number of policemen who have died in the line of duty over the last 10 years is more than the total Army personnel who were killed in all the wars together since 1947? We lose almost 3 policemen per day!!).

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby Keshav » 12 Dec 2008 12:10

POTA is a bandage for the larger problem of police infrastructure. If you can't trust a policeman to defend innocents when they get beat up in front of them, how can you expect them to determine which people are innocent and which ones are not.

Everyone will lose: all religious groups, all castes, all economic groups. Anyone can say that this person did this to me, bribe a cop, and under that pre-text, never see that person again.

Another person here wrote about his/her work in Chattisgarh where the police routinely used POTA as an excuse for all sorts of atrocities such as sexual abuse and severe physical abuse.

Unless the police have a proper intelligence network and fear from above that their wrong moves can lead to trouble, the police cannot be forced to tackle the guilty rather than the innocent.

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Re: Lessons Learned from Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

Postby shiv » 12 Dec 2008 17:13

ramana wrote:Shiv, Doesnt POTA require a magistrate to commit the suspect to sessions? Isnt there a habeous corpus provsion to review the commitment periodically two to three months? or is it a case of not trusting the judge?


Ramana - POTA allowed for detention for prolonged periods with no trial. And the usual problem - it could be used on political rivals.


Perhaps the latter point worried our polity more than anything else. When the kursi is insecure and dependent on bribery, intimidation and vote-banks - if you use POTA on someone, the other guy wil use POTA on you when he is in power.

I suspect that our politicians had POTA/TADA as band-aid to make public happy about fighting terror without the accountability that a clean system provides. But for that you need (more or less) clean polticians, clean police and clean judiciary. None of these are guaranteed clean in India.

One can imagine a scenario of an underworld operative who does hawala transfers for a politician or a rich supporter of a politician. The underworld man has hit men who can kill the rich man/politician because that is is job, but they depend on each other. The underworld operative is protected and he in turn continues his own activities and does occasional favors for the politcian/rich supporter of politician.

Now suppose the underworld guy gets involved with terrorism and risks getting arrested under POTA. He will then ask his political supporter to either prevent his arrest, or threaten to have the politician/rich supporter or his family killed unless he goes free.

This "balance" will reflect as "opposition to POTA" . In addition POTA allowed confessions to police as evidence. Politcians want control of the police. Of police get POTA they can get confessions to nail politcians either genuinely or in revenge. And that must not happen. So it becomes partly a power struggle between corrupt politician and corrupt police in fact triangle if you include the underworld operative.

If we can have a largely "dharmic" system in which say 75 to 80% of politicians and police are uncorrupt and also incorruptible, the remaining ones can gradually be weeded out. But I suspect the level of corruption is too deep.


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