Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

INSANI · Post by **INSANI** » 29 Nov 2008 15:28

A quote from poki media thenews

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=14933.

The awful reality of our time is that Pakistan has become the world's centre of terrorism; attacks staged around the world – whether in the US, or Europe or India – seem to link up with players within the country. Our northern areas have become a favourite refuge for men such as Rashid Rauf, recently killed in a drone strike, and for others who favour violence. From our cities, from our towns, we are accused of exporting terror around the world, acting as a source of weapons, knowhow and moral support.

Restoring Taj hotel's glory may cost Rs 500 crore, take 12 months
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Res ... 772898.cms

jahaju · Post by **jahaju** » 29 Nov 2008 15:29

To improve the security of this city, the first kick is to be given to tha a** of the urban planning dept of BMC . Every piece of land has a tower. the nariman building episode had reports of a terrorsit trying to be a spiderman. Put them in bandra, snatacruz borivili etc area and u have utter chaos.

Sai · Post by **Sai** » 29 Nov 2008 15:33

was that abuse directed against me, nayak? Why?

I am not guessig. I am trying to sove what seems like a puzzle, because i believe whatever nsg did, they did with a purpose.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 29 Nov 2008 15:34

The NSG commandos interviewed on the bus told that the pigs were fried. Everything was pretty much burned up, so couldn't see ID, satphone etc. They could see only weapons. I couldn't understand it fully, but he mentioned that one pig jumped out.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 29 Nov 2008 15:37

They threw him out because they had to stay inside and guard the hotel and he was stinkin' up the room.
Solution:
1. Open window
2. Heave paki out
3. ???
4. Profit

INSANI · Post by **INSANI** » 29 Nov 2008 15:38

At least 22 non-Indians dead in Mumbai attacks
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... 773174.cms
- Israel: Five Israelis who were taken hostage in a Jewish cultural centre have been killed, a diplomat at the Israeli embassy in India said. None of the victims was formally identified, but the Chabad-Lubavitch community which runs the centre said Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg, who was born in Israel and his wife, Rivka, had perished as Indian commandos moved in to end the siege.

-United States: The State Department Friday said five US citizens had been killed in the attacks on Mumbai. Officials did not name the dead, but the Synchronicity Foundation, a Virginia-based meditation community said two of its members, father and daughter Alan and Naomi Scherr, had died. It was not immediately clear if New York-based Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg and his wife were counted among the five.

- France: Two French nationals have been killed, Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said in a statement, without naming them. The president of the fashion lingerie company Princess Tam Tam said the two were its founder, Loumia Hiridjee, and her husband Mourad Amarsy.

- Australia: Two Australians are known to have died in the attacks -- Doug Markell, aged 71, and Brett Taylor, 49.

- Canada: Two Canadians died in the attacks, one of whom was female, the country's foreign minister, Lawrence Cannon said. The names of the two have not been released.

- Germany: A spokesman for the German foreign ministry said one national had been killed. He was not named, but a Munich-based media firm, CAMP TV, said the dead man was its co-owner, Ralph Burkei. An Indian security official has said three Germans died in the attacks.

- Singapore: Lo Hwei Yen, 28, was killed after she was taken hostage in the Oberoi/Trident hotel, a diplomat said.

- Britain: British-Cypriot businessman Andreas Liveras, a 73-year-old yachting tycoon, has been confirmed dead by the Foreign Office.

- Japan: In Tokyo, Mitsui Marubeni Liquefied Gas announced that one of its Japanese employees, Hisashi Tsuda, aged 38, had been killed.

- Italy: An Italian, Antonio de Lorenzo, died in the assault, the Italian foreign ministry said.

- Thailand: A woman Thai worker died in the attacks on the Oberoi/Trident hotel, Thailand's foreign ministry said Saturday, adding that she had worked in the hotel's spa. A spokesman said five Thais were rescued.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Nov 2008 15:38

We don't need to refer to some unknown Paki Abdul talking about Pakistani terrorism. I will post once again what one of their own ex-Prime Ministers and an ex-Foreign Secretary said about their country.

Why is it that all terrorist plots – from the Sept. 11 attacks, to Madrid, to London, to Mumbai – seem to have roots in Islamabad? Pakistan’s military and intelligence services have, for decades, used religious parties for recruits. Political madrassas – religious schools that preach terrorism by perverting the faith of Islam – have spread by the tens of thousands.

Ms. Benazir Bhutto, Washington Post

“Unfortunately, our recognition in the comity of nations today is only as a 'breeding ground' for religious extremism and militancy and as a country afflicted with a culture of violence and sectarianism. Every act of violence anywhere in the world is traced back to our country in one way or the other. The US, in particular, sees Pakistan as the 'ground zero' and a pivotal lynchpin in its fight against terrorism, and for all purposes, now brackets Pakistan with already 'stone-aged' Afghanistan. ”

Shamshad Ahmed, ex-Foreign Secretary, Pakistan

Mathew G · Post by **Mathew G** » 29 Nov 2008 15:38

Now that the siege in both hotels and Chabad house looks under control; some people might be under the illusion that all is over and we can all go back to normality. Don’t be fooled for a second. All these terrorists have NOT perished in this operation. I firmly believe there are some who have melded back into Mumbai suburbs or perhaps holed up in some other Mumbai hotel(s) or G-d forbid, some other city – observing India’s reaction.

It will be a dramatic failure from India’s part, if India doesn’t show the balls. If MMS decides on another round of round table or telephone discussions, you can serve yourself to dhimmitude for you and your generations to come. It will just embolden these guys even more for ever more daring attacks. India cannot afford to be a soft state after 26/11. The world will realize this and the importance of India will capitulate. India’s economic stature will also take a hitting. Nobody will want to do business if India’s government repeatedly fails in all aspects of security. They (the West) are already talking about India being secondly only to Iraq to terrorist victims. At least for Iraq there is a genuine government space vacuum at the moment.

We cannot afford an 80s style non-committal finger pointing (with no follow on action). As much as they would love to, these vermins will not dare do such act in Israel or the US, because those countries are able to rise up to the challenge even at the cost of some of their own citizenry’s lives and compromising their freedom.

We know TSP cannot “officially” support these vermins, because they cannot afford to; with the US breathing down their neck. But looking at the last snub by the ISI chief to India’s call; is the last straw. It is tantamount to telling India to screw itself and an implicit indication, albeit backhanded, of where their real loyalties lie – not that it needs too much stressing here.

India MUST act. Violently and Aggressively.

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 29 Nov 2008 15:43

vilasrao announces mahashtra NSG teams to be formed

so the questions arise:

won't it overlap with ATS (anti-terrorism squad),
what was the mission of ATS?
what was its training, weapons (certainly not adequate)
why was an ex-RAW officer appointed to lead it?
why did he "investigate" the malegaon blast?
(investigation is for police while "anti-terrorism" is actual
fighting the bad guys)

i think the answer is: maha-gov made up a unit, called it a fancy name, and kept the mission blurry

(not at all trying to minimize the bravery of its people,
just that the neta's did not have a clue about its mission)

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 29 Nov 2008 15:45

all metros should have dedicated NSG units & better paramedic facilities.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 29 Nov 2008 15:46

Mathew G wrote:Now that the siege in both hotels and Chabad house looks under control; some people might be under the illusion that all is over and we can all go back to normality. Don’t be fooled for a second. All these terrorists have NOT perished in this operation. I firmly believe there are some who have melded back into Mumbai suburbs or perhaps holed up in some other Mumbai hotel(s) or G-d forbid, some other city – observing India’s reaction.

Here is something that might give me nightmares when I go to bed in some moments: The escaped ones might have the RDX that was supposed to blow up Taj. I dont know if there would be another Fidayeen attack to do use that. AQ is known to be financially very very effecient, hence they will find a way to do it. So we need to aggressively search the ghettos for the same. This probably could be the reason why Ahmedabad is barricaded.

I dont expect UPA to do anything, it has too many sub-parties with highly varied vested interest to act coherently.

R_Kumar · Post by **R_Kumar** » 29 Nov 2008 15:47

INSANI wrote: He pretended to be dead giving rise to the news that two terrorists had been killed. However as the 'bodies' were being taken to Nair Hospital, the accompanying cops figured that one of the men was breathing.

May be he watched too many Hollywood movies during training. That cop have found a jack pot.
The question is will he be hanged?

jahaju · Post by **jahaju** » 29 Nov 2008 15:48

India MUST act. Violently and Aggressively.

,
but will it? If India doesnot react the "Gateway of India" will mean .......

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 29 Nov 2008 15:48

The British Paki angle is front page news in ALL the newspapers here in the uk this morning, both tabloid and broadsheets. (albeit the newschannels are now reporting the british foreign office are cetegorically denying this now).

Last night on the BBC a white English businessman was interviewed about his ordeal of being in the taj and he said the hotel staff, police, army and special forces were all first class and 'a credit to a great nation like India'.

A Arun · Post by **A Arun** » 29 Nov 2008 15:49

"This is the beginning of the end of the Indian federation" - Zaid Hamid

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=5F4_qwtM5yY

Himanshu · Post by **Himanshu** » 29 Nov 2008 15:50

Just got this SMS - Great QUOTE

Forgiving a terrorist is left to GOD, But fixing their appointment with GOD is our Responsibility - INDIAN ARMY

jahaju · Post by **jahaju** » 29 Nov 2008 15:51

A Arun wrote:"This is the beginning of the end of the Indian federation" - Zaid Hamid

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=5F4_qwtM5yY

End of Indian Federation -

lol

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 29 Nov 2008 15:53

A Arun wrote:"This is the beginning of the end of the Indian federation" - Zaid Hamid

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=5F4_qwtM5yY

That newscast almost reminded me of 1990s DD. You can even see the entertainment stand behind the lady who talks to the "couple" if I may call the man and woman.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 29 Nov 2008 15:54

kobe wrote:vilasrao announces mahashtra NSG teams to be formed

While it is important to raise more forces like these in the metros, that in itself will not be sufficient if we don't have the political will to back it up. What use is a missile or SF behind enemy lines if you don't have the willpower to use it? India lacks leadership as much as any other resource in our fight against terror.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Nov 2008 15:55

kobe wrote:
lakshmikanth wrote: Should be either Deepti Menon or Mehroon-or-something-like-that

We need to create a duty-cycle indicator for such reporters high ratio of ooooh-ahhhhh babble rambling with actual meaning full speech means high duty-cycle. Deepti Menon has a duty cycle approximately = 1
she is maruti nayak (Times-Now)
Duty Cycle = 87/13
_|------------------|_|-------------------|_|
speak breath speak breath
i measured it again, its correct 87%

Don't you mean Mahrukh Inayat

Sai · Post by **Sai** » 29 Nov 2008 15:58

A Arun wrote:"This is the beginning of the end of the Indian federation" - Zaid Hamid

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=5F4_qwtM5yY

Fairly entertaining. A variation of "The Jews Did It" theme. I liked the passion with which he made his revelations though.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 29 Nov 2008 15:58

Dilbu wrote:
kobe wrote:vilasrao announces mahashtra NSG teams to be formed
While it is important to raise more forces like these in the metros, that in itself will not be sufficient if we don't have the political will to back it up. What use is a missile or SF behind enemy lines if you don't have the willpower to use it? India lacks leadership as much as any other resource it our fight against terror.

The most important long term thing we can do here is to form a counter strike force which strikes terror within enemy territory. That way we can have a plan and not get deflected by counter offensive with the enemy. Every office that deals with the enemy should be aware of this plan and it should be put in action automatically the moment some action is made by the enemy.

This is how most of Israel operates, they have institutionalized response to terror, if we do not do the same we are going to see more pigs doing a lot of damage.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Nov 2008 15:59

Dilbu wrote:
kobe wrote:vilasrao announces mahashtra NSG teams to be formed
While it is important to raise more forces like these in the metros, that in itself will not be sufficient if we don't have the political will to back it up. What use is a missile or SF behind enemy lines if you don't have the willpower to use it? India lacks leadership as much as any other resource in our fight against terror.

Great!
Should warm the cockles of Raj Thackerays' heart

Marathi manoos NSG.

bart · Post by **bart** » 29 Nov 2008 15:59

That Maru lady seems to feel the need to talk non-stop like a radio commentary of hockey match, rather than let the pictures speak for themselves. Most of the stuff she says is inane rambling and repeating whatever she said earlier again and again.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 29 Nov 2008 16:01

all metros should have dedicated NSG units & better paramedic facilities.

Nice, so we are going to play whack-a-mole India size. What are the odds, that those NSG guys will not be used for security for the incompetent politicos ?

We should rather be setting up IED workshops in Balochistan and open an unlimited expense account for the indian consulates in Afghanistan.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 29 Nov 2008 16:01

I have created a google map showing major locations from landing to ultimate capture by Mumbai police of pakistani terrorist.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&ms ... 227957847l

I request fellow members to help with filling in more details and accurate time frames. Will like to add images and link to youtube videos as and when i locate them.

INSANI · Post by **INSANI** » 29 Nov 2008 16:04

Himanshu wrote:Just got this SMS - Great QUOTE

Forgiving a terrorist is left to GOD, But fixing their appointment with GOD is our Responsibility - INDIAN ARMY

nice quote, forwarding it now!!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Nov 2008 16:05

chetak wrote:
Dilbu wrote: While it is important to raise more forces like these in the metros, that in itself will not be sufficient if we don't have the political will to back it up. What use is a missile or SF behind enemy lines if you don't have the willpower to use it? India lacks leadership as much as any other resource in our fight against terror.

Great!
Should warm the cockles of Raj Thackerays' heart
Marathi manoos NSG.

MMG -- NS not required.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 29 Nov 2008 16:06

bart wrote:That Maru lady seems to feel the need to talk non-stop like a radio commentary of hockey match, rather than let the pictures speak for themselves. Most of the stuff she says is inane rambling and repeating whatever she said earlier again and again.

Less said about DDM the better. In a regional malayalam channel the reporter on the site was saying that the rucksack of the pigs contained ammunition, dry fruits and magazines. Amazingly then he started speculating what language that magazines were in and that it must be manuals on using their automatic weapons.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 29 Nov 2008 16:07

lakshmikanth wrote:
Dilbu wrote: While it is important to raise more forces like these in the metros, that in itself will not be sufficient if we don't have the political will to back it up. What use is a missile or SF behind enemy lines if you don't have the willpower to use it? India lacks leadership as much as any other resource it our fight against terror.
The most important long term thing we can do here is to form a counter strike force which strikes terror within enemy territory. That way we can have a plan and not get deflected by counter offensive with the enemy. Every office that deals with the enemy should be aware of this plan and it should be put in action automatically the moment some action is made by the enemy.

This is how most of Israel operates, they have institutionalized response to terror, if we do not do the same we are going to see more pigs doing a lot of damage.

We are way past long term / short term response.
The immediate need of hour is 'Destroy Pakistan, Give peace a chance' @copyright N^3

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 29 Nov 2008 16:10

p_saggu wrote:
Patni wrote: It seems that they might be trying to draw away police from the Taj and Trident or may be trying to get away and reach chowpaty beach in darkness and make a getaway in a dingy. Its also likely they might be heading towards airport to reach some other fivestar hotels! we can only speculate till more details emerge. If needed i can draw up a map with locations marked and maybe fellow members help build an accurate time lines for major events.
Patni,
Could you please make the map? with arrows to enlighten us.
It is possible that these people were going to a
1, safe house
2. extraction point - since they expected to walk out of this alive!
3. Going to some other high profile and unprotected target nearby - So I think that rules the airport out- heavily protected and only two scum.
Are there any big 5 star hotels nearby? Or the residences of High profile people?

Map done. Invite members to provide feedbacks/informations to add etc.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&ms ... 60badd365e

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 29 Nov 2008 16:11

US officials fear Indian response to attacks

cholaraja · Post by **cholaraja** » 29 Nov 2008 16:13

well thats a great quote from the army, lets get the oliticos date with the god fixed by them as well, i mean i am joking, but there has been numerous mass attacks now and although link to swines has been there no action taken overtly

at least when Advani talked about hot ursuit and even if not enacted, it at least ket them to the borders largely.

no more MMS or madam, if this menace is not dealt a death blow then it will deal it to us. True it cannot be dealt with in one blow, but a civilisation like ours should give two blows for a blow if we are to survive, otherwise we will all end u in sriharikota and andamans eventually(may even have to go claim asylum in cocos from chines(, having retreated away from the saraswaty basin long ago.

lets start by giving the ISI a new leader, send the one comming to mumbai to heaven. well first indite him on accusation of terrorism. there is lenty of cicumstancial evidence, let the swine have the burden of roof.

INSANI · Post by **INSANI** » 29 Nov 2008 16:13

Unconfirmed report says that as many as 5 pigs had british link.
says timesnow.

BBC MUMBAI MAP
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7751876.stm

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 29 Nov 2008 16:15

Nayak wrote:
all metros should have dedicated NSG units & better paramedic facilities.
Nice, so we are going to play whack-a-mole India size. What are the odds, that those NSG guys will not be used for security for the incompetent politicos ?

Nayak,

Regulations will protect them from being used for incompetent politicians. As such politicians have enough security to cover them. In any case politicians cannot move around with 100 NSG. Also, note it is better to have them in each metro than to have them fly from New Delhi each time things like this happen. A lot of crucial time was wasted in getting NSG from delhi to mumbai allowing terrorist to settle down.

furthermore dedicated units can know in advance things like lay out of important places of their city. That will help them counter attack better.

We should rather be setting up IED workshops in Balochistan and open an unlimited expense account for the indian consulates in Afghanistan.

That is an offensive tactic, a different set of game. I was talking on the defensive side.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 29 Nov 2008 16:17

Dilbu wrote:US officials fear Indian response to attacks

The only reaction I see happening is MMS shouting at the ISI chaprasi and then declaring Indo-Puki bhai bhai

vishal · Post by **vishal** » 29 Nov 2008 16:19

chetak wrote:
Dilbu wrote: While it is important to raise more forces like these in the metros, that in itself will not be sufficient if we don't have the political will to back it up. What use is a missile or SF behind enemy lines if you don't have the willpower to use it? India lacks leadership as much as any other resource in our fight against terror.

Great!
Should warm the cockles of Raj Thackerays' heart
Marathi manoos NSG.

Everyone on this forum knows that raising a unit like the NSG or Marcos is easier said than done. Will the Maharashtra government have the patience to keep up the expenditure on training for years between terrorist incidents (if only we had years between them) and will they be able to resist the members of this unit becoming palace guards or status symbols? Will they have their own, dedicated airlift capability to reach areas like Pune, Nashik and Nagpur if the need arises?

A few years ago the Mumbai Police had raised motorcycle-borne rapid response marshals. They operated as buddies and were armed with carbines, side arms and carried radios. These were modeled on the Israelis who have such units. A year or so later the unit was disbanded. Rushing into things because it is politically expedient is one thing, carrying it through to it's lengthy conclusion is quite another.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 29 Nov 2008 16:20

Wajid Hassan the Paki High Commissioner is on BBC claiming that there is no evidence of any Paki involvement or of their territory being used for these attackes. BBC presenter seems to agree with him.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 29 Nov 2008 16:21

JTull wrote:Wajid Hassan the Paki High Commissioner is on BBC claiming that there is no evidence of any Paki involvement or of their territory being used for these attackes. BBC presenter seems to agree with him.

Do we even have a PR department???? God I hate this great babucracy that we have!

cholaraja · Post by **cholaraja** » 29 Nov 2008 16:22

well lets seal the border South Korea vs North Korea fashion and see such attacks occur, for two (hundred, no thousand( years. as we all know there will not be any attacks of this magnitude.

Then why wont GOI do it? it is erfectly justified in the name of national security evn if it saves ONE life.