Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby krithivas » 30 Nov 2008 02:35

None. I was more inspired/touched by Pres. Bush's statement of support over radio, EDITED

Heads figuratively must roll within Indian establishment for this monumental negligence, and literally within TSP establishment for their terrorism.

Sorry guys - Eye for an Eye. Indian establishment must not sleep a week till revenge havoc is accomplished.

R. Krithivas

lakshmikanth wrote:Has MMS/Shivraj Patil made any statement to the public after the completion of the ops? I have been searching for news but none so far.

It would be totally disgusting if they didn't and I guess its the end of the road for KangressI
Last edited by Jagan on 30 Nov 2008 03:42, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited Check PM

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby enqyoob » 30 Nov 2008 02:35

From ireport.com
Almost every survivor that came out of the Taj Mahal Hotel said they owe their lives to the brave staff of the Hotel.
The staff at Taj stayed calm and composed even while facing mortal danger. There have been cases where they even took bullets for the guests.
The picture posted here is of one such hero Kaizad Kamdin, a young chef who rescued many guests via the emergency fire exit, before falling to the gunmen's bullets. The Parsi community has lost so many heroes like Kaizad in this tragedy...
Security officer Noshir Sanjana is another such example. Fortunately he lived to tell the tale.
Housekeeping employee 'Rajan' also took a bullet while protecting guests.
This is a classic case, where regular folks showed extraordinary
character while faced with formidable odds, going way beyond the call
of duty...
The extraordinary sacrifice of these ordinary Indians is forever etched in the annals of time...

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby munna » 30 Nov 2008 02:38

Lalmohan wrote: i am sure that if you spoke to villagers in Haryana or Meghalaya or wherever - they would give you a pretty clear answer on what to do next and where to drop the bombs

Lalmohan ji the public in the towns and villages far removed from the uber sanitized Tajs and Oberois of the world knows for the past 60 odd years as to which part of the world is to be pulverized. It is only that the elite is now discovering to its untold horror that some countries or people have evil hard wired into them. They (elite) need to fall in line rest can be left to the SDRE army that can make the TFTA kamandus do downhill skiing in record time.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Pranay » 30 Nov 2008 02:39

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/world ... ai.html?hp

Some more gory details about the encounter at Taj in New York Times.

On a personal note - a close friend had just left VT Station when the shooting started there. She realized the enormity of it all upon reaching home.

I have no words to express my anger at the sad state of affairs in Bombay in particular and India in general. It is sheer lack of political leadership and statesmanship that cuts across party lines in India that has brought us to this sad state. The current political leadership of India can be described in the words of Winston Churchill as "men of straw". After every such terror attack, they spout the same old rhetoric which has lost all relevance.

I hope that the general population/media in India do not lapse into a collective state of stupor after this event and that they hold the politicians accountable for their non performance in providing security to the people of India.

Correct me if my recollection is wrong, but didn't Gen. Musharraf threaten India with maritime surprises after his Kargil adventure was rolled back?

When will this end????? Indian life is not this cheap!!

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby ramana » 30 Nov 2008 02:41

Have they put up a roll of honor for those killed by the terrorists? or is it usual time pass for the Indian press?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby kshirin » 30 Nov 2008 02:44

I used to like Jason Burke, one of the first westerners to point out Pak support to Al Qaida terrorists and helping West to establihs common cause with us, but this is motivated and lacks any logic:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/29/mumbai-terror-attacks

Militant suspects have roots in Kashmir conflict
• Jason Burke in Bahawalpur
• guardian.co.uk, Saturday November 29 2008 00.01 GMT

Down dusty lanes in the southern Punjabi town of Bahawalpur are two religious schools that are well known to security services on both sides of the Pakistani-Indian border and further afield. They do not look like centres of global terrorism. Earlier this week when the Guardian visited, students poured out of the Dar ul-Uloom Medina at the end of morning lessons and teachers sat on rope beds drinking tea and eating bananas. The high-walled, heavy-gated Usman au Ali school in the heart of the city was quiet.
Yet appearances may be deceptive. Both schools are accused of being recruitment and logistics bases for Jaish-e-Muhammad, a militant group now among India's suspects for this week's Mumbai attacks. Elsewhere in Bahawalpur and in the surrounding villages are other schools and safehouses linked to Lashkar-e-Taiba, the other group in the frame.
Both groups have their roots in the conflict over the disputed Himalayan state of Kashmir. Developing out of irregular militias to fight Indian security forces in the Indian-administered parts of Kashmir in the early 1990s with the encouragement and support of Pakistani intelligence services, the groups' fighters have been blamed by the Indian government for a catalogue of atrocities.
They include a gun and grenade assault on the parliament buildings in Delhi in 2001, hundreds of violent killings in Kashmir over the last decade and a half, the 2002 killing of Jewish-American journalist Daniel Pearl, an airplane hijacking, and bombings in Indian cities.
The result is that although Pakistan's tribal areas along the frontier with Afghanistan are internationally known as "al-Qaida central", it is towards the towns and villages of Pakistan's Punjab province that New Delhi's finger is now pointing.
Islamabad's policy of using such groups as proxies is long-standing.
"Given the power asymmetry between the two neighbours, Pakistan knows that it is the weaker militarily and that bleeding India is one way of attaining strategic aims and using paramilitary groups with plausible deniability is one way of doing that," said Farzana Shaikh of the Chatham House thinktank.
In recent years the dynamic has changed although judging how far is hard. In 2002 Pervez Musharraf, then Pakistan's president, banned Jaish-e-Muhammad and Lashkar-e-Taiba, which had been openly fundraising and recruiting. Assassination attempts on him and the occupation and armed siege of the Red Mosque in central Islamabad had brought home the perils of trying to manage the militants, however useful they appeared to be.
Analysts say the militants are more fragmented than before and that although the Pakistani security establishment maintains some control over some of them, others have turned against their former patrons. Other outlets for their energies may also have been sought. Some young volunteers may be diverted to Afghanistan rather than to Kashmir, where fighting has calmed in recent years.
With British officials trying to verify Indian statements that at least two of the militants involved in the Mumbai attacks were British-born, the role of the Pakistani groups and the role of the Pakistani security establishment will now come under greater scrutiny than ever.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby enqyoob » 30 Nov 2008 02:51

kshirin, again, what about those bolded parts would you consider anti-India? He sounds pretty effective at pointing out that terrorism is NOT just out of NWFP. Point to note is that from his audience's pov, this is a classic "Al Qaida attack", with several goras , YY targeted and dead. Yet, Jason points out clearly that it does not come from the presumed "AQ Central" of NWFP/FATA but from PAKJAB. And he slams that point home with a report of a madarssa in action right there in Bahawalpur.

Put urself between the ears of an Intelligent Paki (if such there exists), and u'll probably get REALLY upset at how this kufr Jason Bin Burke Al Guardiani twists the peaceful and holy activities of the ancient Bahawalpur madarssa into a probable terrorist hive, just based on what the yindoos are alleging. His editor is probably going to get a lot of curses from them, in short order.

For the Pakis, the sentence starting with "US is investigating" here is an intense cause for ulcers. It is spelled P-R-E-D-A-T-O-R.

(but thanx 4 the article - it provides some real atmospherics 4 the mullahs at the Khabar-e-Jehad thread. :mrgreen: )

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Sumeet » 30 Nov 2008 02:52

Mumbai locals helped us, terrorist tells cops


MUMBAI: Did some Mumbai locals provide support to the Pakistani terrorists? Azam Amir Kasab, the only Pakistani terrorist nabbed alive, has revealed names and addresses of at least five people from the city who helped the terror operation.

Sources said that help like, providing shelter, taking them around and showing places, passing information on police stations and nakabandhis were given by these locals. Joint commissioner of police (crime) Rakesh Maria said,"We suspect there could be local assistants but it is subject to verification. It will be very premature to comment on this at this stage as our investigations is going on.''

Kasab has told police that they were sent with a specific mission of targeting Israelis to avenge atrocities on Palestinians. This was why they targetted Nariman House, a complex meant for Israelis. Sources said Kasab's colleagues killed in the operation had stayed in Nariman House earlier.

"They have stayed in Nariman house on rental basis identifying themselves as Malaysian students.'' said a source. Police are trying to find out how Nariman House rooms were given to non-Jews. Police has taken all the records books of for verification. The second target was the CST railway station because casualties would be high.

Crime branch has also recovered several fake identity and credit cards from the belongings of dead terrorists. "All the cards are in different names and of different banks. Now we are at least trying to figure out how they procured credit cards from various banks.'' said Maria. The recovery of so many cards with different names have led Mumbai police to suspect the involvement of ISI.

Though Maria maintained only 10 terrorists had sneaked in, the two blasts in taxis in Wadi Bunder and Vile Parle have led the police to believe there could be possibility of the presence of another two or more terrorists in the city.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby kbasu » 30 Nov 2008 02:55

SBajwa wrote:
Economic santions by India alone will hardly have any affect.


Blockade of Karachi and Gawadar for three months will do wonders.

China can only send so much oil through the karakorum
Iran can only supply few trucks that Balochis let pass through Baluchistan.

Karachi and Gawadar means basic oil, wheat, sugar and meat. There will be food riots and people will beg government to hand over these guys

Only sensible thing to do is.

1. Breaking off all diplomatic relations with Pakistan. (continue talking with naPakistanis through USA diplomats only in English)
2. Blockade Karachi and Gawadar until Pakistan agrees to extradite

Maulana Masood Azhar
Mushtaq Ahmed Zargar
Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh
Ibrahim Athar
Shahid Akhtar Sayed
Sunny Ahmed Qazi
Mistri Zahoor Ibrahim
Shakir

along with Dawood Ibrahim and his goons?


Exactly my point. China cannot support Pakistan thru the mountains. Everything in Pakistan goes thru the ports and cargo ships. Just put blockade and see them dance. No food, no oil, no war; only misery. Also you have to understand the psychological impact of this. When Pakistan sees that we can bring them to their knees without firing a shot, it will be very humiliating for the entire Pakistan as a nation. Why do we always have to fight war with fire. Please remember English ruled not by weapons but by simply making sure the general population is humiliated to such an extent they do not dare to pick up arms.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby krithivas » 30 Nov 2008 02:56

Once India verifies that PoK was used as a staging ground for this mayhem, Revenge must be extracted. I'm sure India has good understanding of terrorist breeding grounds there, and offers excellent test runs for Shauryas.

R. Krithivas

kshirin wrote:I used to like Jason Burke, one of the first westerners to point out Pak support to Al Qaida terrorists and helping West to establihs common cause with us, but this is motivated and lacks any logic:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/29/mumbai-terror-attacks

Militant suspects have roots in Kashmir conflict
• Jason Burke in Bahawalpur
• guardian.co.uk, Saturday November 29 2008 00.01 GMT

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Sumeet » 30 Nov 2008 02:57

Such small incidents happen: Maharashtra Deputy CM


MUMBAI: Maharashtra Deputy Chief Minister R R Patil on Saturday kicked off a row when he said "such small incidents happen" with reference to terror attacks in Mumbai.

"Such small incidents happen..", was what Patil, who also holds the Home portfolio, told reporters, little realising his faux pas.

What led to the controversy are his remarks " bade shahron mein aise ek adh hadse hote rahte hain. Woh 5,000 logon ko marne aye the lekin humne kitna kum nuksan hone diya . (Such small incidents happen in big cities. They (terrorists) came to kill 5,000 people but we ensured minimal damage)".


Patil was not available for comment but sources close to him said the senior NCP leader did not mean to downplay the terror attack and that the remarks were being quoted "out of context".

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby NRao » 30 Nov 2008 02:57

The West has lost it soul on this matter. There is terrorism and Islamic terrorism. While the prior uses that means to scare people into submission, the latter uses it to scare to ULTIMATELY convert to Islam.

Islamic terrorism, therefore, has really no meaning when it is perpetrated against Muslims, for it is only a fight within the family that in the end has the same goal - conversion.

It is for the same REASON there can be no moderate Muslim, for ultimately ALL Muslims have to revert to their Text and interpretors of it.

So, when Pakistan OR the US claims that Pakistan is the victim of terrorism, it is totally wrong.

Pakistan is a victim of terrorism, India among others is a victim of Islamic terrorism. Two different things.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby A Arun » 30 Nov 2008 02:59

Ram Jetmalani talks to Paki channel. Gives Pakistan a clean chit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=re ... fYlaF5_q1Y

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Vikram_S » 30 Nov 2008 03:05

krithivas wrote:None. I was more inspired/touched by Pres. Bush's statement of support over radio, than looking at the EDITED Manmohan Singh with Gandhi's statue in the background made during the attack.

Heads figuratively must roll within Indian establishment for this monumental negligence, and literally within TSP establishment for their terrorism.

Sorry guys - Eye for an Eye. Indian establishment must not sleep a week till revenge havoc is accomplished.

R. Krithivas

lakshmikanth wrote:Has MMS/Shivraj Patil made any statement to the public after the completion of the ops? I have been searching for news but none so far.

It would be totally disgusting if they didn't and I guess its the end of the road for KangressI


nothing showed monumental bankruptcy of this government than that positioning they chose.

the pm looked like somebody who had already lost, somebody who did not know what to do or want to do anything. and behind, a bust of gandhi, ie we are non violent onlee, peaceful onlee. great message to send to terrorists and ISI handlers who attack india EXACTLY BECAUSE they think india is like this. this feeds 100% into propoganda image of india as cowards who can be attacked and attacked.

and at the time, NSG is fighting, MARCOS is fighting, but DDM like burkha dutt want to have peace with pakistan. what people we have, what strength we have, and to compare: what leaders we have, what media we have.

so so shameful for a nation of a billion people. we will die like flies but this government will not do anything.

it is not about going to RYK or sipping tea on invading pakistan. it is about doing the basic things, about strengthening local intelligence and law and order, about supporting the army on pay issues, about cracking down on WKK types, about sending a strong message to terrorists within india. no, all that is dead for votes sake. and our PM come on TV like he has already lost and cannot do anything beside giving a demotivating speech which even 5th standard child can do better.

even that this Govt will not do.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Pranay » 30 Nov 2008 03:07

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/weeki ... as.html?hp

A very thoughtful / thoughtprovoking article ...

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby rsingh » 30 Nov 2008 03:08

So depressing is this whole episode. Western media is hell bent to save Pakistan. GOIis hell bent to do nothing, Bakis are hell bent on insulting India by "warning about not to overreact". What will happen........nothing. Unkil will promise India to launch few missiles from predators at targets near muzafrabad at max. We have let Bakistan to be what it is today.......nobody else to blame.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby shynee » 30 Nov 2008 03:09

Need an account to access it. Could you post the contents ?

Thanx

Pranay wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/weekinreview/30giridharadas.html?hp

A very thoughtful / thoughtprovoking article ...

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby NRao » 30 Nov 2008 03:12

shynee wrote:Need an account to access it. Could you post the contents ?

Thanx

Pranay wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/weekinreview/30giridharadas.html?hp

A very thoughtful / thoughtprovoking article ...


November 30, 2008
The Special Sting of Personal Terrorism
By ANAND GIRIDHARADAS

VERLA, India — This was not terror — not as Indians understood it. This was war.

The killers stormed the streets of Mumbai, India’s financial capital, with machine guns and bags of grenades. They did not strike with the terrorist’s fleeting anonymity. Their work was fastidiously deliberate. It went into a second day, then a third. They took time to ask your nationality and vocation. Then they spared you, or herded you elsewhere, or shot you in the back of your skull.

As a surprise attack became a 48-hour struggle, the burden of responding transferred from the police to soldiers. The language was of war: television anchors spoke of buildings “sanitized” and “flushed out,” of “final assaults” and “collateral damage.” Helicopters hovered over Mumbai, and commandos dropped onto roofs. The grainy television imagery suggested not so much a terrorist attack as the shapeless, omnidirectional chaos of Iraq.

While the hostage situation endured, more was unknown than known. Rumors flew, unconfirmed. Did you hear? They shot all the women at the hotel switchboard. Did you hear? They executed a young mother and her children. Did you hear? They sent a hostage out of the building to get food for their attackers. Truth was complicated; everything blurred.

But what slowly became clear was that this was an attack of especial barbarism, because it was so personal. It was unlike the many strikes of the last many months, bombs left in thronging markets or trains or cars: acts of shrinking cowardice. The new men were not cowards. They seemed to prolong the fight as long as they could. They killed face to face; they wanted to see and speak to their victims; they could taste the violence they made.

A good story has characters, and a terrorist attack without characters tempts a society to forget. A wave of recent Indian attacks, more anonymous and less dramatic, offered little focus for public opinion.

For better or worse, the public has its characters now. As the weekend arrived, it was not clear who the men were, even as India’s government hinted at Pakistani connections. But even without learning their names, it was so easy to imagine them this time, combing the hallways, asking life-or-death questions, pulling women and children from their rooms at midnight.

For a country with no dearth of terrorism in its past, it is perhaps the fleshy immediacy of these men and their deeds that makes this a defining assault — one that separates all attacks of the past from those yet to come. In the television studios, on the roads, in the anguished phone calls of friends to friends, Indians said the words again and again: This is our 9/11.

“It is an Indian variant of 9/11, and today India needs to respond the way America did,” Ravi Shankar Prasad, a member of Parliament from the rightist Bharatiya Janata Party, said on television.

But if this was India’s 9/11, it seemed so only to certain citizens, and not, apparently, to their government.

It took 18 hours for Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to come on television. He is a reflective, decent man. But he was emotionless, his mouth moving and nothing else. He knows all too well the history of blaming Pakistan and its militants for attacks, only to come up short on evidence. He said the attacks “probably” had a foreign hand. His most specific idea was “police reform” and the “tightening” of laws to close “loopholes.” He called for “peace and harmony.”

His temperateness helped to keep the ever-present threat of religious riots at bay. But it also seemed to misread the mood of a country that wanted it to be 9/11 — if not in the sense of war and conquest, then in the sense of instant clarity, of the simple feeling that an era had ended and that enough was, at last, enough.

When the video of Mr. Singh’s address was posted on YouTube, many said online what others were saying on the ground. He was “expressionless,” a “brilliant teacher but no leader,” an “ineffective puppet.” One user wrote: “He should have given a strong warning and threat to terrorists and those who support them. Unfortunately he is too soft.”

Nor did the government’s retaliation inspire. The commandos who came at long last and saved the day were heroic, working room by room to retake the two besieged hotels. But India learned thereby that Mumbai, with its 19 million people, lacks commandos of its own. They were flown in from the capital, New Delhi.

Meanwhile, “army sources” leaked to the press that they had warned the government of an impending attack days before, only to be ignored, as usual.

“The scale, intensity and level of orchestration of terror attacks in Mumbai put one thing beyond doubt: India is effectively at war and it has deadly enemies in its midst,” The Times of India, a leading English-language daily, wrote in an editorial published Friday. “The question now,” it added, “is whether the nation can show any serious degree of resolve and coordination in confronting terror.”

The government, in its defense, walks a fine line. Show too little resolve, and attacks happen. Show too much, and you galvanize hatred domestically and exacerbate tensions abroad, notably with Pakistan.

“It is extremely important to understand that the criminal activities of a minuscule group, even if it turns out to have home-grown elements, say nothing about Indian Muslims in general, who are an integral part of the country’s social fabric,” Amartya Sen, the Harvard economist and Indian-born Nobel laureate, wrote in an e-mail message. “Even if it turns out that the Mumbai terrorists had a base in Pakistani territory, India has to take full note of the fact that the bulk of Pakistani civil society is an ally, not an enemy, in the battle against Islamist terrorism, for they too suffer greatly from the violence of a determined minority based in their country.”

On Friday, Pakistan’s prime minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani, agreed to send the powerful chief of his country’s intelligence services to India, to receive any evidence, as a gesture of good will.

People purporting to be the attackers have said they belong to a group called the Deccan Mujahedeen, and have claimed to be waging a war in Islam’s name. It was uncertain whether they are of domestic or foreign origin.

Whichever it is, they have crossed yet another line with these attacks. Islamist militants in India have in recent years lived somewhat apart from the global Islamist struggle. They bombed and killed, but their enemies were Indian Hindus, not “Jews and crusaders,” and their targets were markets and cinema halls that drew Indians, not foreigners.

This attack, in contrast, went after five-star hotels, a popular restaurant and a Jewish community center. The gunmen were reported to show a preference for Britons and Americans as hostages.

With their brutality, their sophistication, their links to the ideology of terrorism elsewhere, these attacks seemed, then, to usher in a new day. Late in the week, as the gunfire crackle trailed off, many Indians appeared to long for a sign that this attack would muster new will.

A text-message moving among Mumbaikars expressed the uniqueness of the now: “Brothers and sisters, it’s time to wake up and do something for the country — however little — related to this or not — start today and continue it through the years — do not forget as easily as we are used to forgetting.”

Many told themselves and each other that this time would change things, just as Americans had told themselves after 9/11. But they knew their own history, and America’s, and they seemed, even as they spoke the words, to disbelieve them already.

Anand Giridharadas, a columnist for The International Herald Tribune, recently completed three and a half years as a correspondent in Mumbai for that newspaper and The New York Times.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby vijayk » 30 Nov 2008 03:13

Patrick Cockburn: Pakistan is the root of the problem

The West can’t now lecture the Indian government about over-reacting

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opini ... 86314.html

In the immediate aftermath of the murderous attacks in Mumbai much of the analysis has a familiar ring, but now it is the West which is downplaying foreign involvement. Indian allegations about "external linkages" of the terrorists is wearily reported as an unfortunate resumption of Pakistani-Indian finger pointing.
Television and newspaper commentary on terrorist outrages is frequently provided by self-appointed "terrorist experts" whose credentials remain mysterious. These supposed experts now emphasise the alienation of Indian Muslims and suggesting that the origin of the terrorist assault on Mumbai is home grown, the fruit of the radicalisation of Indian Muslims by systematic discrimination against them by the Indian state. Exactly who was behind the bloody mayhem in Mumbai is still unclear. The Hindu newspaper was yesterday reporting that three of the suspects captured by the police were members of Lashkar-i-Taiba (the Army of the Pious), which has several thousand members in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, and the gunmen had arrived In Mumbai by ship from Karachi in Pakistan. The group is one of the three largest fighting against India in Kashmir.

Pakistan was always the real base for al-Qa'ida. It was the Pakistani ISI military intelligence which fostered and partly directed the Taliban before 2001 and revived it afterward

It is self-defeating hypocrisy for the West to lecture the Indian government now about not over-reacting and not automatically blaming the Pakistani government or some part of its security apparatus for Mumbai. The way in which the Pakistani military has allowed Kashmiri and Pakistani militants free range in Pakistan created the milieu from which the attacks this week came. It may be that the monster the ISI created is no long under its control, but it is ultimately responsible for what has happened.
Last edited by vijayk on 30 Nov 2008 03:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby rsingh » 30 Nov 2008 03:15

narayanan wrote:
Correct me if my recollection is wrong, but didn't Gen. Musharraf threaten India with maritime surprises after his Kargil adventure was rolled back?


:eek: :eek:

Well.... actually it was moi who posted the scenario way back circa 1999, where 50 Paki Special Forces types came ashore from Dawood's smuggling dinghies, then launched an attack on BARC and (hopefully) TOI HQ. I argued that they would succeed in creating a hostage situation around the nuclear reactors.

Sorry, I was hoping no one remembered that, but that the security forces had protected against it. Several BRF jingoes pooh-poohed my scenario, of course, because the coast was so well patrolled, the IN radar would spot them, the shore police would nab them, etc. etc.


Actually this scenario was in the book " India checkmate US- writing on the wall 2020" by our ex IA chief IIRC.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby enqyoob » 30 Nov 2008 03:17

Must have seen it on BRF. :mrgreen: But I am relieved - the Pakis would SURELY have read his book and believed the scenario was doable, not my post.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby rsingh » 30 Nov 2008 03:18

You never loose the ground.....do you :mrgreen:

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Hiten » 30 Nov 2008 03:19

SBajwa wrote:At a Miminum how hard is following for government.
1. Breaking all diplomatic relations with Pakistan. (continue talking with naPakistanis through USA diplomats only in English)

possible, but not effective enough.
SBajwa wrote:2. Blockade Karachi and Gawadar until Pakistan agrees to extradite

An effective blockade cannot be enforced with just frigates, destroyers and submarines - very limited field of influence
A Carrier group needed and iirc Viraat is in the docks undergoing mantainance services - expected to last till 2009/2010

A blockade is pretty much a sign of a war - Pakistan will retaliate. Want to go in to one?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby sampat » 30 Nov 2008 03:21

rsingh wrote:
narayanan wrote:
C




Better to edit above posts, otherwise it will give more fuel to hindu terrorists, purhoit kind of things. masters will have field day with abduls in villages.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby enqyoob » 30 Nov 2008 03:23

Hey, the book came out in 2006. My post was in 1999 or 2000. Q.E.D.
Not that it takes any imagination to bring criminals to Mumbai in dinghies - Haji Mastan was doing it when I was in kindergarten. Anyone who has watched enough Bollywood movies (as all Paki terrorists do) would know that this is real easy.

Added later: Sampatji: Too late. B. Raman already asked the question bluntly on Day 1 of the terror attack: how safe are our nuclear facilities?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby SaiK » 30 Nov 2008 03:26

Sumeet wrote:Such small incidents happen: Maharashtra Deputy CM


MUMBAI: Maharashtra Deputy Chief Minister R R Patil on Saturday kicked off a row when he said "such small incidents happen" with reference to terror attacks in Mumbai.

"Such small incidents happen..", was what Patil, who also holds the Home portfolio, told reporters, little realising his faux pas.

What led to the controversy are his remarks " bade shahron mein aise ek adh hadse hote rahte hain. Woh 5,000 logon ko marne aye the lekin humne kitna kum nuksan hone diya . (Such small incidents happen in big cities. They (terrorists) came to kill 5,000 people but we ensured minimal damage)".


Patil was not available for comment but sources close to him said the senior NCP leader did not mean to downplay the terror attack and that the remarks were being quoted "out of context".


wtf...Just put him in jail for saying that! and also make those who vote for such people as part of corrupted people.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby skganji » 30 Nov 2008 03:28

suvod wrote:amitabh bachchan has no moral right to speak about anything related to terrorism or national security. This is the guy who has sold his soul to dance to the tunes of people like amar singh and the like in the samajwadi party, which is perhaps the biggest sponsor of terrorism in mainstream indian politics.


Well said Man. Amitabh should have dissassociated himself easily from Amar Singh and Mulayam singh who are the biggest supporters of SIMI and Islamic terrorism operated openly in Uttar Pradesh. I cannot understand why a brilliant actor like him cannot sense the danger these two politicians are posing to the country's security.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Sumeet » 30 Nov 2008 03:29

leave that comment on his blog.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Kati » 30 Nov 2008 03:31

kbasu wrote:
SBajwa wrote:
Economic santions by India alone will hardly have any affect.


Blockade of Karachi and Gawadar for three months will do wonders.

China can only send so much oil through the karakorum
Iran can only supply few trucks that Balochis let pass through Baluchistan.

Karachi and Gawadar means basic oil, wheat, sugar and meat. There will be food riots and people will beg government to hand over these guys

Only sensible thing to do is.

1. Breaking off all diplomatic relations with Pakistan. (continue talking with naPakistanis through USA diplomats only in English)
2. Blockade Karachi and Gawadar until Pakistan agrees to extradite

Maulana Masood Azhar
Mushtaq Ahmed Zargar
Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh
Ibrahim Athar
Shahid Akhtar Sayed
Sunny Ahmed Qazi
Mistri Zahoor Ibrahim
Shakir

along with Dawood Ibrahim and his goons?


Exactly my point. China cannot support Pakistan thru the mountains. Everything in Pakistan goes thru the ports and cargo ships. Just put blockade and see them dance. No food, no oil, no war; only misery. Also you have to understand the psychological impact of this. When Pakistan sees that we can bring them to their knees without firing a shot, it will be very humiliating for the entire Pakistan as a nation. Why do we always have to fight war with fire. Please remember English ruled not by weapons but by simply making sure the general population is humiliated to such an extent they do not dare to pick up arms.


What are bthe feasible options available? has there been pros and cons analyzed?

1. Naval blockade for three months: Impossible. Unkil will pile so much pressure for NATO war delivery to Afghanistan that
this is out of question.
2. Taking out terror camps at PoK? same dilema. Unkil will provide early warning to Pak, and the whole western media will be let loose on India for incleasing the tension.

3. Covert options with deniability are much better. A higher level delegation to Tehran and Moscow for close "consultation" will send a clear warning to Unkil/Auntie and other relatives; and get a more fruitful help from Iran and Russia. Iran with Shia assets within Pak can help wipe out some jihadi bases and send a clear signal to the piglets. Moscow can help in getting high-tech gadgets (drone types).

4. Double/triple the help to the baluchis through iran.

Oh, well, at the end of the day unkil will threaten to freeze Sonia G's Swiss account, and scuttle every thing.
clear warning

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Abhi_G » 30 Nov 2008 03:31

skganji wrote:
suvod wrote:amitabh bachchan has no moral right to speak about anything related to terrorism or national security. This is the guy who has sold his soul to dance to the tunes of people like amar singh and the like in the samajwadi party, which is perhaps the biggest sponsor of terrorism in mainstream indian politics.


Well said Man. Amitabh should have dissassociated himself easily from Amar Singh and Mulayam singh who are the biggest supporters of SIMI and Islamic terrorism operated openly in Uttar Pradesh. I cannot understand why a brilliant actor like him cannot sense the danger these two politicians are posing to the country's security.


As per Jaya Bachchan, Amar and Mulayam helped Amitabh come out of the financial mess of ABCL.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby gandharva » 30 Nov 2008 03:32

One of the Dead Pig

Image

enqyoob
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby enqyoob » 30 Nov 2008 03:33

Now THAT's a classic Paki snout. Looks too peaceful in death. Who closed its eyes, I wonder.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Abhi_G » 30 Nov 2008 03:34

^^^
Looks like Devgun.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Hiten » 30 Nov 2008 03:35

SaiK wrote:wtf...Just put him in jail for saying that!

Maharashtra police comes under the the Home minister of Maharashtra

R.R Patil owns the jails
Last edited by Hiten on 30 Nov 2008 03:55, edited 1 time in total.

SaiK
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby SaiK » 30 Nov 2008 03:39

Hiten.. this is like asking if we can find a few good men like Daniel Kaffee, we can put Col. Nathan R. Jessep to jail!. Let me ask, do we have few good men left in our 1 billion country?

I am NOT taking your "LOL" lightly.. if you (all) have Indian blood in you, at least view the videos below.

-----------
http://anorak75.wordpress.com/2008/11/2 ... un-review/
See the videos
Last edited by SaiK on 30 Nov 2008 03:47, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby gandharva » 30 Nov 2008 03:44

Delhi stiffens at ISI U-turn
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1081130/j ... 185511.jsp

Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani had accepted Singh’s request to send ISI chief Ahmad Shuja Pasha to India but the decision was reversed as President Zardari met Gilani and army chief General Kiyani.

Sources in Pakistan said top political parties, including the Pakistan Muslim League (N) and the All Parties Democratic Movement, opposed the decision to send Pasha and called the move “inappropriate”.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby rsingh » 30 Nov 2008 03:45

gandharva wrote:One of the Dead Pig

Image


Do they have Bakistani Defence Academy graduation pic ............I am sure we can get some hit.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby gandharva » 30 Nov 2008 03:46

Looks like Devgun


Do you see his Sharukh khan typr pushtooni nose.?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Eshwar » 30 Nov 2008 03:46

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 258545.ece

Growing rift threatens to tear India apart

My stepfather’s reaction came in the form of a text message the next day. It read: “Pardon Afzal [Muhammad Afzal, accused of attacking the Indian parliament in 2001], hang Sadhvi [a woman accused of participating in the only act of Hindu terrorism in a Muslim neighbourhood], Ban the Bajrang Dal [a Hindu extremist organisation], talk to Simi [a Muslim student organisation of which the Indian mujaheddin, responsible for a string of attacks in Indian cities, is said to be a part], restrict the Amarnath pilgrimage [a Hindu pilgrimage that led to upheavals in the Kashmir valley last summer] fund the Haj. Wow! Truly, my India is great! Fwd 2all Hindus.”

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby rsingh » 30 Nov 2008 03:47

deleted
Last edited by rsingh on 30 Nov 2008 03:48, edited 1 time in total.


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