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Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Singha
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Singha » 02 Dec 2008 06:42

ahem see I told you , girlie boy is trained to sing easily and lead people up the garden path.he is
probably from karachi or lahore proper but said faridkot to give the pakis a chance to claim
wounded innocence.

more debriefing is needed to find out who he really is.

Shreeman
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Shreeman » 02 Dec 2008 06:46



What do you expect from the country that refused to take back the bodies of its soldiers in Kargil? If one was there, do you think they would come out in the open and accept him?

Still, the story with this guy is far from over. All these early leaks from the investigations may well come back to bite the media, and the investigators. 'Tis the season to look foolish, I guess.

Would be nice if there was systematic disclosure of information if and when its utility is past, instead of these haphazard leaks.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Shreeman » 02 Dec 2008 06:48

sunilUpa wrote:A story of survival, sacrifice and heroism from the heart...some of our 'friends' perhaps could learn bit of humility from this gentleman.

Heroes At The Taj

Michael Pollack, 12.01.08, 07:40 PM EST
After a terrifying day, one eyewitness thanks his saviors.



If fora have been established for contributing to the welfare of the kith and kin of the hotel workers, kindly post prominently.

enqyoob
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby enqyoob » 02 Dec 2008 06:49

So much for Narco-Anal-e-sis. Doing narco-analysis on a Paki is like doing a hydro-analysis on a fish.

They should hand him over a Mumbaikar commuter group for a little chit-chat, and his whole miserable life history will come out pronto.

Its a dead giveaway - a Paki with 4th grade education who squeals in fluent Pinglish. There is only one place that fits the bill, as the Poojya Mantri said long ago:
Bhy is the Bhest so advanjed? Bhecauj, in Bilayat, chote-chote bacche bhi acchee tarah Angreji mein baat-cheet karte hain!


This may be a Bradford Paki. How does a ***** from Faridkot know how to drive a car? (not very well, obviously, but still..) BTW, in that video, remember that Indian cars are right-hand drive. Which one was on the driver's side? The dead one or the live one?

vsunder
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby vsunder » 02 Dec 2008 07:04

Vsudhir thanks. It was to counter Human rights violation arguments of IA in the forum,
in which head of Bumbay Port trust is also giving lots of useless gyaan.

VikramS
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby VikramS » 02 Dec 2008 07:06

But then, a member of parliament phoned into a live newscast and let the world know that hundreds of people--including CEOs, foreigners and members of parliament--were "secure and safe in The Chambers together." Adding to the escalating tension and chaos was the fact that, via text and cellphone, we knew that the dome of the Taj was on fire and that it could move downward.

Amazing isn't it? The idiots who have managed to get elected. God knows how many lives his hunger for publicity cost..

http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2008/12/ ... llack.html

svinayak
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby svinayak » 02 Dec 2008 07:07

* NOVEMBER 30, 2008, 11:53 P.M. ET

Deepak Blames America

The media look within to explain the sick delusions of the Mumbai killers.
By DOROTHY RABINOWITZ

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122809544395968075.html

If the Mumbai terror assault seemed exceptional, and shocking in its targets, it was clear from the Thanksgiving Day reports that we weren't going to be deprived of the familiar, either. Namely, ruminations, hints, charges of American culpability that regularly accompany catastrophes of this kind.

Soon enough, there was Deepak Chopra, healer, New Age philosopher and digestion guru, advocate of aromatherapy and regular enemas, holding forth on CNN on the meaning of the attacks.

How the ebullient Dr. Chopra had come to be chosen as an authority on terror remains something of a mystery, though the answer may have something to do with his emergence in the recent presidential campaign as a thinker of advanced political views. Also commending him, perhaps, is his well known capacity to cut through all sorts of complexities to make matters simple. No one can fail to grasp the wisdom of a man who has informed us that "If you have happy thoughts, then you make happy molecules."

In his CNN interview, he was no less clear. What happened in Mumbai, he told the interviewer, was a product of the U.S. war on terrorism, that "our policies, our foreign policies" had alienated the Muslim population, that we had "gone after the wrong people" and inflamed moderates. And "that inflammation then gets organized and appears as this disaster in Bombay."

All this was a bit too much, evidently, for CNN interviewer Jonathan Mann, who interrupted to note that there were other things going on -- matters like the ongoing bitter Pakistan-India struggle over Kashmir -- which had caused so much terror and so much violence. "That's not Washington's fault," he pointed out.

Given an argument, the guest, ever a conciliator, agreed: The Mumbai catastrophe was not Washington's fault, it was everybody's fault. Which didn't prevent Dr. Chopra from returning soon to his central theme -- the grave offense posed to Muslims by the United States' war on terror, a point accompanied by consistent emphatic reminders that Muslims are the world's fastest growing population -- 25% of the globe's inhabitants -- and that the U.S. had better heed that fact. In Dr. Chopra's moral universe, numbers are apparently central. It's tempting to imagine his view of offenses against a much smaller sliver of the world's inhabitants -- not so offensive, perhaps?

Two subsequent interviews with Larry King brought much of the same -- a litany of suggestions about the role the U.S. had played in fueling assaults by Muslim terrorists, reminders of the numbers of Muslims in the world and their grievances. A faithful adherent of the root-causes theory of crime -- mass murder, in the case at hand -- Dr. Chopra pointed out, quite unnecessarily, that most of the terrorism in the world came from Muslims. It was mandatory, then, to address their grievances -- "humiliation," "poverty," "lack of education." The U.S., he recommended, should undertake a Marshall Plan for Muslims.

Nowhere in this citation of the root causes of Muslim terrorism was there any mention of Islamic fundamentalism -- the religious fanaticism that has sent fevered mobs rioting, burning and killing over alleged slights to the Quran or the prophet. Not to mention the countless others enlisted to blow themselves and others up in the name of God.

Nor did we hear, in these media meditations, any particular expression of sorrow from the New Delhi-born Dr. Chopra for the anguish of Mumbai's victims: a striking lack, no doubt unintentional, but not surprising, either. For advocates of the root-causes theory of crime, the central story is, ever, the sorrows and grievances of the perpetrators. For those prone to the belief that most eruptions of evil in the world can be traced to American influence and power there is only one subject of consequence.
Accustomed as we are by now to this view of the U.S., it's impossible not to marvel at its varied guises -- its capacity to emerge even in journalism ostensibly concerning the absurd beliefs about the 9/11 attacks held by so many Muslims. It's conventional wisdom in the region -- according to a New York Times dispatch from Cairo, Egypt, last fall by Michael Slackman -- that the U.S. and Israel had to have been involved in the planning, if not the actual execution of the assaults. No news there. Neither was the information that there was virtually universal belief in the area that Jews, tipped off, didn't go to work at the World Trade Center that day. Or that the U.S. had organized the plot in order to attack Arab Muslims and gain access to their oil.

The noteworthy point here was the writer's conclusion that the U.S. itself was to blame for the power of these beliefs. "It is easy for Americans to dismiss such thinking as bizarre," Mr. Slackman allowed. But that would miss the point that the persistence of these ideas represents the "first failure in the fight against terrorism." A U.S. failure? Nowhere in the extended list of root causes here was there any mention of the fanaticism and sheer mindless gullibility that is the prerequisite for the holding of such beliefs.

Its very ordinariness speaks volumes about this report. A piece written with evident serenity, the perversity of its conclusions notwithstanding, it's one emblem among many of the adversarial view of the nation that is today entrenched in the culture. So unworthy is the U.S. -- an attitude solidly established in our media culture long before the war on terror -- that only it can be held responsible for the deranged fantasies cherished in large quarters of the Arab world. So natural does it feel, now, to hold such views that their expression has become second nature.

Which is how it happens also that the U.S. is linked to the bloodletting in Mumbai, with scarcely anyone batting an eye, and Larry King -- awash perhaps, in happy molecules -- thanking guest Dr. Chopra for his extraordinary enlightenment.


Ms. Rabinowitz is a member of The Wall Street Journal's editorial board.


Austin
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Austin » 02 Dec 2008 07:11

Guys I am perhaps asking the same question again , instead of fighting terrorist in close combat and loosing life and limb , why dont we develop some kind of Chemical Gas , which can immediately either make them faint or just disorient them for some time ( russian showed that such a chemical weapon is possible )

Now the chances that the terrorist may have a gas mask is always there , but it will also hamper them if they use it .

We do have DRDO facility at Gwalior which has expertise in C&BW , its good to catch them alive than kill them to get intel from them

Any one who can agree here , can we discuss the pro and cons of such weapon ?

vkthakur
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby vkthakur » 02 Dec 2008 07:12

Suraj wrote:Please re-read my reasons for deleting your cross-posted blog entry. We do not encourage people advertising their own blogs or commercial sites here. Only your post was deleted because it was a message specifically to you to not do so.


If you really mean that please restore my post without the blog url. (I explained the reason for putting by blog url but you seem to have missed it.)

Suraj wrote:You have a grand total of two posts here, one of which was against posting guidelines and the other calls members names. I suggest you shape up or ship out.


Can you quote the text where I call members names? You want to me ship out? Why? Because I make you uncomfortable? Truth does that you know.

kobe
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby kobe » 02 Dec 2008 07:15

Kedar wrote:
kobe wrote:just heard on NPR "talk of the nation"

- some pakistani-american auther (don't care to remember piggy's name), she harped on "discrimination against indian muslims bla bla", my blood was boiling and ready to evaporate,

then some caller (indian lady) called in and said yes there are problems, but these are pakistani terrorists, besides there are many rich, educated indian muslims (gave example of president kalam, azimi premji etc)

the author said again thats not an excuse to hide behind to solve the problem of discrimination against muslims.. more bla bla bla...

entire country listening to this JUNK program now will think ok indian disenfrenchised muslims did it

the author-guest just did not allow them to speak about pakistan

so i turned the radio off before blood was ready to evaporate at such high temperature that it would have become plasma.

CONCLUSION:

its not just pakistani unemployed youth graduating from madrassa's are ready to bring down india and indian democracy,

its the entire spectrum of pakistani population, starting from media, intellectuals, politicians, mullahs, generals, laborers, students, the whole stinking country is a wasteland full of primitive thinking and revengeful brains. and their blood is boiling since 1971 and that is why they are happy to see terrorists doing their dirty work


Was that Asra Nomani by any chance? Unfortunately she is an Indian but more a wannabe-RAPE. Another "secular, liberal Muslim woman" being promoted by the US government.


correct, that was the name, but NPR did mention she grew up in US of pakistani parents... (any way does not make any difference)

sunilUpa
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby sunilUpa » 02 Dec 2008 07:16

VikramS wrote:But then, a member of parliament phoned into a live newscast and let the world know that hundreds of people--including CEOs, foreigners and members of parliament--were "secure and safe in The Chambers together." Adding to the escalating tension and chaos was the fact that, via text and cellphone, we knew that the dome of the Taj was on fire and that it could move downward.

Amazing isn't it? The idiots who have managed to get elected. God knows how many lives his hunger for publicity cost..

http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2008/12/ ... llack.html


Who were the two parliamentarians in Taj?

ramana
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby ramana » 02 Dec 2008 07:21

One yumpee from Kerala called Krishanadas. Don't know who the other was. There were two UK MPs one of particluar community who were let go by the terrorshits.

shiv
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby shiv » 02 Dec 2008 07:27

Karkala Joishy wrote:
krishnan wrote:
'If it had not been (Major) Sandeep's house, not even a dog would have glanced that way.'

This was how Kerala [Images] Chief Minister V S Achuthanandan heaped scorn on Monday on the family of NSG Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan, who was killed in the Mumbai terror attack during commando operations, igniting a controversy after smarting under the snub from the father of the angry officer when he went to Bangalore to offer his condolences.


http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/01m ... -house.htm


What exactly was the father angry about so as to kick the CM out?

If you are ever visited by a politician what happens is that an outer ring of hangers on barges in and demands that you become alert and hang about to wait. If the politician wants to see you - you may get a modicum of politeness, but anyone else - including servants or family will be asked to move with the outer ring of hangers on occupying the space.

Then the inner coterie of chamchas appears using the body language of chamchas. The inner ring is even more arrogant and blast a hole through the outer ring of hangers on who have already thrown you place out of gear. And - from the middle of a group of aggressive bouncers appear the politician - usually looking far fatter and uglier than the huge posters on the roadside to say a few words.

The experience is designed to intimidate and is hardly a way to commiserate - but neither the politician, nor his chamchas give a damn. In India the politician thinks he is a raja and his chamchas treat him like a man who demands and gets what he wants.

If it had not been Unnikrishnan's father not even a dog would have been able to bark at the minister without getting punished by the chamchas.

Our politicians should learn the way they come across- but they are actually not bothered. they enjoy all this and think i is their right to behave in this manner and be treated as absolute monarchs. The Mumbai terror attacks are only an opportunity to reveal the "Haaaaackkthoooo" feeling that a large number of Indians feel for ther elected "leaders" and their chamchas. If peopel were honest and not intimidated by political goonda they would say what is said openly - "Dogs deserve more love an respect that he average goonda-thug elected person" whom we mistakenly call "leaders" or "netas"

enqyoob
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby enqyoob » 02 Dec 2008 07:27

vthakurji, at BRF I am sure I have posted over 20,000 posts. Wasted my entire childhood here. I have never (yet) been banned, though I have come close many times, and probably will with some regularity. :eek: And you are not unique in using your real name, as commendable though inadvisable that may be.

Yet my post count shows 1382. For instance, just my dear friends J-Gun and shiv "The Knife" between them have deleted a few thousand of my posts, 1,700,000,000 to be precise. Koi baat nahin.
We don't make a big deal of posts getting deleted now and then.

Please resume posting. I don't think anyone here remembers precisely what was in your post any more, sorry, but I am sure someone will enjoy them.

Rahul M
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul M » 02 Dec 2008 07:33

Austin wrote:Guys I am perhaps asking the same question again , instead of fighting terrorist in close combat and loosing life and limb , why dont we develop some kind of Chemical Gas , which can immediately either make them faint or just disorient them for some time ( russian showed that such a chemical weapon is possible )

Now the chances that the terrorist may have a gas mask is always there , but it will also hamper them if they use it .

We do have DRDO facility at Gwalior which has expertise in C&BW , its good to catch them alive than kill them to get intel from them

Any one who can agree here , can we discuss the pro and cons of such weapon ?

that idea was brilliant until torpedoed by the lack of support measures of the russi authorities.

that said, there is one huge con:
if it isn't instantaneous(virtually impossible to achieve) terrorists will understand what is going on and may take everyone with them.
in the moscow theatre they actually realised what was going on but the women terrorists who had the suicide vests were knocked off first preventing the huge kaboom.

kobe
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby kobe » 02 Dec 2008 07:33

OT onlee

N^3,
in these trying times your humor stands out among the moderatullahs. please don't do it anymore. we come
here in angry mood, and leave laughing. not fair.


enqyoob
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby enqyoob » 02 Dec 2008 07:37

My story begins innocuously, with a dinner reservation in a world-class hotel. It ends 12 hours later after the Indian army freed us.

My point is not to sensationalize events. It is to express my gratitude and pay tribute to the staff of the Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai, who sacrificed their lives so that we could survive. They, along with the Indian army, are the true heroes that emerged from this tragedy.


Read the description. Do you believe there were only 2 or 3 terrorists in the Taj?

We have a serious problem of not accounting for several terrorists.

shiv
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby shiv » 02 Dec 2008 07:40

vkthakur wrote:You want to me ship out? Why? Because I make you uncomfortable? Truth does that you know.


:rotfl: The technical jargon for that feeling is "cognitive dissonance. Piskolgically speaking it could apply as much to you as the admin in question. You are being made uncomfortable and are therefore resorting to threats that will threaten nobody other than your own voice on this forum. Why shaheedize yourself? The admin is not there because his father gave that job to him - he has earned it by positively supporting the forum for years

Chillax dude. Not point getting flustered. Every contributor can be valuable, but many valuable people cancel themselves out by getting into an ego tussle with admins. Just drop the subject and move on. At least this chap is a nice person - unlike some ex-admins I know about. :((

ramana
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby ramana » 02 Dec 2008 07:42

Even B Raman got the heat after kargil when he said that soldiers are paid to die or something like that. He now only browese and very often. So realx and participate. All are on hair trigger in these trying times.

Anindya
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Anindya » 02 Dec 2008 07:54

This may be a Bradford Paki. How does a ***** from Faridkot know how to drive a car? (not very well, obviously, but still..) BTW, in that video, remember that Indian cars are right-hand drive. Which one was on the driver's side? The dead one or the live one?


N3 - some interesting tidbits in the article below...answers the car-driving issue...

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1210832

Jagan
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Jagan » 02 Dec 2008 07:59

Cop took them on with a jammed gun
Dayanand Kamath
Tuesday, December 02, 2008 03:10 IST

“I would have gunned down one of the terrorists if my gun was not jammed,” said police constable Ajitkumar Nalavde.

Nalavde was the first policeman to take on the two terrorists inside CST station on Wednesday night.

“The incident took place around 9.45 pm. I was informed by ASI DS Rathod that two terrorists were indiscriminately firing at commuters inside CST station,” he said.

“Without losing a moment, I picked up my carbine and 10 live rounds and rushed to the station. There was pin-drop silence inside CST and several passengers lay in a pool of blood,” he recalled.

Nalavde said that he managed to reach the gate of platform No. 8 near the State Bank ATM. “I could clearly see one of the terrorists standing on platform No. 4, barely 400 metres away from me. I hid behind the wall of the ATM and fired three rounds at him. But the gun-wielding terrorist immediately retaliated with several shots.

Unfortunately, the bullet got stuck in the chamber of my carbine and I could no longer fire at the terrorist and his colleague as they made their way to platform No.1,” said Nalavde.

“I then returned to CST police station to remove the bullet stuck in my gun,” he added.
After reloading his gun, Nalavde once again rushed to the station. However, by that time there was no sign of the terrorists. “When I returned to the police station, I found inspector Shashank Shinde in a pool of blood. My colleagues and I rushed him to the hospital.”

Bade
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Bade » 02 Dec 2008 07:59

Read the description. Do you believe there were only 2 or 3 terrorists in the Taj?

We have a serious problem of not accounting for several terrorists.


The Taj is actually two buildings right ? One is 10+ storey and the other heritage one with lesser number of floors. If the flushing out operations were happening simultaneously at both blocks how could they in groups of two, say hold on for so long ?

How did they manage to kill all 4 (or is it 3) in the heritage block by early Saturday morning. Some accounts by the commandos themselves did mention of at least two being killed within a short space of each other.

Are the two blocks connected ? If so why was that not an ambush point as counter offensive ? Any one been to Taj over here could speculate perhaps.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby AlbertPinto » 02 Dec 2008 08:00

narayanan wrote:...
This may be a Bradford Paki. How does a ***** from Faridkot know how to drive a car? (not very well, obviously, but still..) BTW, in that video, remember that Indian cars are right-hand drive. Which one was on the driver's side? The dead one or the live one?


They better 2nd/3rd gen from Bradford or kahani mein there is serious twist.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7752625.stm

Then, the "foreign looking, fair skinned" men, as Mr Mishra remembers them, simply carried on killing.


Gaffar Abdul Amir, an Iraqi tourist from Baghdad, says he saw at least two men who started the firing outside the Leopold Cafe.

He was returning to his hotel from the seaside with a friend when he saw two men carrying bags and brandishing AK-47s walking in front of them, shooting.

"They did not look Indian, they looked foreign. One of them, I thought, had blonde hair. The other had a punkish hairstyle. They were neatly dressed," says Mr Amir.

Rahul M
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul M » 02 Dec 2008 08:02

Jagan wrote:
Cop took them on with a jammed gun
Dayanand Kamath
Tuesday, December 02, 2008 03:10 IST

“I would have gunned down one of the terrorists if my gun was not jammed,” said police constable Ajitkumar Nalavde.

Nalavde was the first policeman to take on the two terrorists inside CST station on Wednesday night.

“The incident took place around 9.45 pm. I was informed by ASI DS Rathod that two terrorists were indiscriminately firing at commuters inside CST station,” he said.

“Without losing a moment, I picked up my carbine and 10 live rounds and rushed to the station. There was pin-drop silence inside CST and several passengers lay in a pool of blood,” he recalled.

Nalavde said that he managed to reach the gate of platform No. 8 near the State Bank ATM. “I could clearly see one of the terrorists standing on platform No. 4, barely 400 metres away from me. I hid behind the wall of the ATM and fired three rounds at him. But the gun-wielding terrorist immediately retaliated with several shots.

Unfortunately, the bullet got stuck in the chamber of my carbine and I could no longer fire at the terrorist and his colleague as they made their way to platform No.1,” said Nalavde.

jagan, any idea which gun ?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby amit » 02 Dec 2008 08:03

narayanan wrote:So much for Narco-Anal-e-sis. Doing narco-analysis on a Paki is like doing a hydro-analysis on a fish.

They should hand him over a Mumbaikar commuter group for a little chit-chat, and his whole miserable life history will come out pronto.

Its a dead giveaway - a Paki with 4th grade education who squeals in fluent Pinglish. There is only one place that fits the bill, as the Poojya Mantri said long ago:
Bhy is the Bhest so advanjed? Bhecauj, in Bilayat, chote-chote bacche bhi acchee tarah Angreji mein baat-cheet karte hain!


This may be a Bradford Paki. How does a ***** from Faridkot know how to drive a car? (not very well, obviously, but still..) BTW, in that video, remember that Indian cars are right-hand drive. Which one was on the driver's side? The dead one or the live one?


N^3,

I really wonder if it's possible that the leaks being attributed to the (S)he piglet is actually a part of a disinformation campaign launched by our investigators?

The Guardian story posted by Gerard caught my eye. It says ISI investigatores swooped on Faridkot for "investigation". Now what investigation does ISI need to do about someone who collects a monthy pay check from them?

So either it was for the benefit of the sooper dooper journalists from Guardian, or - a big OR - the ISI did a double take when it heard FARIDKOT and decided to do a little investigation?

There's another point the bothers me. At various times during the Cyclone and Thunder action there were news reports quoting officials saying that 3 jolly good pigs were in custody. Now if that's the figment of imagination of the Bakra (please note this is actual spelling) Dutt types, then why 3 and not 4, 5 etc and why is it that now it's been reduced to 1?

Could it be the other 2 are under the radar? You gotta remember that the offical (S)he piglet will have to be eventually brought to court for remand and a lawyer will have to be appointed and (S)he will get some loving and attention from our very own ravishing Arundhuti Aunty etc. As result he can't be given too much of enema for his intestinal problems which fuddle his brain and memory.

However if there's No2 and No3, who officially don't exist, they can be given all the loving care and treatment that our spooks have at their disposal and they can even be given some advanced care from some Jewish doctors maybe?

Who knows what's happening.

However, it's also entirely possible that our spooks are idiots enuf to be taken on a ride by our (S)he piglet.

JMT

Suraj
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Suraj » 02 Dec 2008 08:04

vkthakur wrote:If you really mean that please restore my post without the blog url. (I explained the reason for putting by blog url but you seem to have missed it.)

This is not a venue to cut and paste your blog or website contents, with or without a link.
vkthakur wrote:Can you quote the text where I call members names?

If you have a problem with whatever was stated about your website, find the specific post(s) and use the report post function. Don't just broadly accuse people without any supportive information, or cast aspersions on the alleged places of employment of members; whether they are from DRDO is irrelevant, and any issues you have with DRDO are your problem.

Posting here is a privilege, and a new poster is obliged not to be disruptive. In your posts so far, you've posted flamebait, contravened forum guidelines and generally been abrasive. There's no point in claiming to speak the truth if you lack the skills to be a contributor on a large forum like this, unlike on a personal blog, where you post and people just comment.


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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Victor » 02 Dec 2008 08:08

Austin wrote:Guys I am perhaps asking the same question again , instead of fighting terrorist in close combat and loosing life and limb , why dont we develop some kind of Chemical Gas , which can immediately either make them faint or just disorient them for some time ( russian showed that such a chemical weapon is possible )

Now the chances that the terrorist may have a gas mask is always there , but it will also hamper them if they use it .

We do have DRDO facility at Gwalior which has expertise in C&BW , its good to catch them alive than kill them to get intel from them

Any one who can agree here , can we discuss the pro and cons of such weapon ?

This definitely should be doable and has much less risk to hostages than bombs and bullets. I would be surprised these have not been perfected already by "advanced" countries but its possible they are keeping quiet. Kudos to the Russians for using it to finish off the turds in Moscow. Although their calculations went tragically wrong in that instance, I assume they have a much better idea of how to use it now. In buildings like the Taj, the air conditioning system can be used for delivery. Grenades and even bullets can be used with a knockout gas where this is not possible. In fact it should also be usable in an airplane hijack situation where everyone gets ko'd but the pilots who obviously would have masks. We need to make such out of the box solutions operational quickly.

Evan a stun grenade or flash-bang fired with precision through a window and coordinated with an immediate assault team could be tried (again, if it hasn't already been that is). Not to mention a slew of other tech goodies. It is no longer acceptable in the 21st century to allow turds to take over a building with ease.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby svinayak » 02 Dec 2008 08:13


Victor
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Victor » 02 Dec 2008 08:16

edited
Last edited by Jagan on 02 Dec 2008 08:32, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: be nice

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby enqyoob » 02 Dec 2008 08:17

There were two names clearly given, of captured pigs. And I saw the mention of 3 too, but there was never any explanation of where they were caught, so I don't know how true this was. There was no report of a pig cornered, wounded, captured and brought out of any of the hotels. So if it happened, it happened outside the immediate environs of the terror attack.

But this one pig is either clueless or lying: "Abu Ismail Dera Ismail Khan"
Come on, we invented better names like that on the BENIS dhaga. All Abu XXXX are noms-d'idiots. But it is possible that Abu Pu -e-Dera-Bradford Al Faridkoti was not told anything other than some garbage like this.

Arindam, so per this report, the surviving pig must have got out of the left-hand door of the car. But this does not make sense to me. The initial picture of police doing forensics around the Skoda, showed them examining the large bloodstains and corpse-outline on the left side of the Skoda. (IIRC). OTOH, the video shows the guy getting out of the right hand door getting "pacified" by good ol' Mumbai Pandoo Lathis.

All screwed up as usual. Man! The ddm are definitely India's SuperWeapon. Should call them DCM - Dork Counter-Measures. Confuses the most determined investigator, not to mention ISI terrorist.

As for the blond hair, I think that was a wig, and the pigs were probably gay. Maybe they wore white carnations behind the ear as well. Fair skin, well... maybe they put on liberal amounts of "FairNLovely" as they were heading to houristan.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Muppalla » 02 Dec 2008 08:18

amit wrote:At various times during the Cyclone and Thunder action there were news reports quoting officials saying that 3 jolly good pigs were in custody. Now if that's the figment of imagination of the Bakra (please note this is actual spelling) Dutt types, then why 3 and not 4, 5 etc and why is it that now it's been reduced to 1?

Could it be the other 2 are under the radar? You gotta remember that the offical (S)he piglet will have to be eventually brought to court for remand and a lawyer will have to be appointed and (S)he will get some loving and attention from our very own ravishing Arundhuti Aunty etc. As result he can't be given too much of enema for his intestinal problems which fuddle his brain and memory.

However if there's No2 and No3, who officially don't exist, they can be given all the loving care and treatment that our spooks have at their disposal and they can even be given some advanced care from some Jewish doctors maybe?

Who knows what's happening.

However, it's also entirely possible that our spooks are idiots enuf to be taken on a ride by our (S)he piglet.

JMT


I have similar questions and I believe there is a lot of disinformation campaign going on as the investigators got the real catches and clinching evidence. I am betting on the two will come out as caught in HYD or BLORE etc.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby shynee » 02 Dec 2008 08:18

Official held in connection with Mumbai attacks

JAMMU: Police today questioned a state government employee, who was taken into custody along with his wife in the state's Doda district, for his possible links with Mumbai terror attacks.

Showkat, who is working as junior assistant in the municipal committee in Doda town, was picked up by police along with his wife from the town on Saturday after he was found to have made several calls to Mumbai during and after the attack in financial capital, police sources said here today.

His wife was let off after preliminary questioning.

So far, police are yet established his links with Mumbai terror attacks but the phone calls he made were being verified, the sources said adding he was being subjected to sustained questioning.

Showkat along with his wife was picked up after security agencies intercepted his alleged conversation with one suspected Lashker-e-Toiba (LeT) militant identified as G Mamnoo asking him to watch television and see what was happening in Mumbai, they said.

He also received a call asking for information about the welfare Abdul Majid, the brother of his wife, living in Mumbai.

Majid was working in Mumbai for last few years, the sources said adding that no team had come from Mumbai to take custody of Showkat as of yet.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby niran » 02 Dec 2008 08:19

Rahul M wrote:jagan, any idea which gun ?


Three not three, of course.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby shiv » 02 Dec 2008 08:21

Victor wrote:
Austin wrote:Guys I am perhaps asking the same question again , instead of fighting terrorist in close combat and loosing life and limb , why dont we develop some kind of Chemical Gas , which can immediately either make them faint or just disorient them for some time ( russian showed that such a chemical weapon is possible )

Now the chances that the terrorist may have a gas mask is always there , but it will also hamper them if they use it .

We do have DRDO facility at Gwalior which has expertise in C&BW , its good to catch them alive than kill them to get intel from them

Any one who can agree here , can we discuss the pro and cons of such weapon ?

This definitely should be doable and has much less risk to hostages than bombs and bullets. I would be surprised these have not been perfected already by "advanced" countries but its possible they are keeping quiet. Kudos to the Russians for using it to finish off the turds in Moscow. Although their calculations went tragically wrong in that instance, I assume they have a much better idea of how to use it now. In buildings like the Taj, the air conditioning system can be used for delivery. Grenades and even bullets can be used with a knockout gas where this is not possible. In fact it should also be usable in an airplane hijack situation where everyone gets ko'd but the pilots who obviously would have masks. We need to make such out of the box solutions operational quickly.

Evan a stun grenade or flash-bang fired with precision through a window and coordinated with an immediate assault team could be tried (again, if it hasn't already been that is). Not to mention a slew of other tech goodies. It is no longer acceptable in the 21st century to allow turds to take over a building with ease.



Not so sure Victor
Here is a 2002 BRM artticle abou the Mosco theatre gas thing
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... mohan.html
And a relevant quote:

General Technical Considerations
The ideal "knockout gas" for use in hostage situations should have the following characteristics:

· it should be capable of passing into the blood from the air in the lungs and then pass from the blood into the brain,
· it should be colorless and odorless so as not to cause suspicion or panic,
· the agent should be easy to disperse in large volumes quickly,
· it should be capable of acting rapidly to cause unconsciousness when breathed in - perhaps acting over the span of 10 or 12 breaths,
· it should then be very safe so that even if an unconscious person continues to breathe the gas for several minutes or hours it should not cause any further damage or complications and lastly,
· the effect of the gas should be rapidly reversible. That is, after the exposure is complete, then either the body should spontaneously wash out the gas or an antidote should easily reverse its effect.
Unfortunately such an ideal `knock-out’ gas or compound does not exist.

The most commonly employed agents that rapidly cause unconsciousness are used routinely for general anesthesia for surgical operations. But every single one of these agents has drawbacks that make it less than ideal for use as a gas to render people unconscious, safely and securely, without intensive (close) medical supervision.

Some chemical agents may not be reliably absorbed from the lungs when breathed, and are best given as injections or tablets. Others may act very slowly, even if absorbed from the lungs. These are obviously unsuitable, and can be ruled out.

Many agents have a characteristic odor that makes them easily detectable. Some are irritant and may cause coughing or burning of the eyes. Either way, the use of such agents could trigger a dangerous panic reaction from a tense, tired hostage taker before they cause unconsciousness.

Some agents occur as powders or liquids, and these will need to be dispersed in the air for them to be inhaled. This may not be a very difficult technical hurdle to cross. Many countries, and Russia in particular have developed great expertise in creating aerosols from liquids or powders. Aerosols (7,8) are minute droplets or powders suspended in a gas. Aerosols can be generated from powders or liquids by accurate control of particle size, shape, concentration and electric charge (9) The Federal Institute of Applied Chemistry in Russia (10) has developed great expertise in this area.

If all the above conditions are adequately met, there still remains the crucial question of safety. Contrary to popular belief chemical agents that cause sedation, narcosis or loss of consciousness do not cause "sleep" in the true sense of the word. A person who is asleep is `rousable’, i.e. the person is able to regain full consciousness rapidly. A person who is under the influence of a drug that causes unconsciousness is in a state akin to a drunken stupor.

All the agents used suppress brain functions to cause this stupor, and whenever brain function is suppressed the part of the brain that controls breathing is also suppressed to an extent. A higher the dose of the "knockout agent" causes greater the suppression of breathing. In addition to this a higher dose can also trigger of other side effects lead eventually to a cascade of events in the body that can cause death. Unlike injections or tablets that provide a fixed dose of chemical agent to the body, an agent that is present in the atmosphere will be inhaled with each breath and the dose of the substance reaching the blood and brain will increase with each breath and eventually lead to possible fatal over dosage unless the chemical laden air that is being breathed can be quickly replaced and substituted with normal air or oxygen. A number of individual factors may delay or accelerate death under such circumstances. Younger people with healthy cardiac and respiratory systems will last longer as may people who are drug addicts or alcoholics, whose bodies may destroy some agents faster than normal. Elderly people with heart disease, and people weakened by disease or starvation and dehydration will likely succumb quickly.
This sets the stage for the effects of introducing an anesthetic or sedative gas into a confined space, such as was done in Russia. Within the space, people sitting near vents through which the gas is introduced will receive higher doses more quickly than those sitting away from vents, and in these areas, the elderly and weak will succumb soonest from an overdose, possible even before others in other areas lose consciousness. This theoretical model fits in well with the reports of the Moscow siege, with a mixed picture of people who were conscious and unconscious, some deaths, while some people remained relatively unaffected. In the next section we proceed to discuss specific agents and their likely impact.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby enqyoob » 02 Dec 2008 08:24

How do those jam so easily? In all the 50 shots I have fired from one of those, it never jammed. Whether I hit anything other than my own shoulder is another question... (actually something hit near the innermost circle of my target, but it could have been my buddy Soapy Sunder whose shots hit my target). Are they using chinese ammo or what?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Jagan » 02 Dec 2008 08:31

Rahul M wrote:
Jagan wrote:
Cop

jagan, any idea which gun ?



I am assuming its a 9mm SMC.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby sunilUpa » 02 Dec 2008 08:33

Austin wrote:Guys I am perhaps asking the same question again , instead of fighting terrorist in close combat and loosing life and limb , why dont we develop some kind of Chemical Gas , which can immediately either make them faint or just disorient them for some time ( russian showed that such a chemical weapon is possible )

Now the chances that the terrorist may have a gas mask is always there , but it will also hamper them if they use it .

We do have DRDO facility at Gwalior which has expertise in C&BW , its good to catch them alive than kill them to get intel from them

Any one who can agree here , can we discuss the pro and cons of such weapon ?


Austin,
What you want is the proverbial magic bullet, the madical community has been searching for ages. Let try to simplify the problem.
1. Every drug (which is a chemical) has a minimum level below which it won't act (MEC) and a maximum level above which it is toxic (=MTD), the differece b/w these two level is Therapeutic window, i,e region where drug acts and is safe.
2. To act fast it should be absorbed in to the body fast (in this case instantaneous, through lungs), should be potent (low MEC) and low toxicity (High MTD).
3. Now fast acting, potent drugs have narrow Therapeutic window. In this case they will affect Central nervous system, the subject will loose consciousness, will continue to breathe the drug. Very soon the blood level of the drug will cross MTD and unfortunately in these class of drugs will cause death. That's what the Russians found out. That's what will happen with most of the anesthetics if dose is not controlled.
4. If one can find a way to regulate the dose, you have the 'Ramban".

Sorry if I confused you further.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Jagan » 02 Dec 2008 08:35

narayanan wrote:How do those jam so easily? In all the 50 shots I have fired from one of those, it never jammed. Whether I hit anything other than my own shoulder is another question... (actually something hit near the innermost circle of my target, but it could have been my buddy Soapy Sunder whose shots hit my target). Are they using chinese ammo or what?


Bad maintenance, gun not cleaned frequently, bad ammunition catridges (damaged / bent ~ usually from a paradrop - may not apply here). My guess is improper maintenance. too much "jang" in the 303s. and for a 303 to jam, your maintenance has to be criminal.


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