Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

kbasu
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby kbasu » 02 Dec 2008 10:37

We have been talking our heart out for last one week. 200+ people dead, 300+ wounded, but where is the troop mobilization? We know Unkil will not allow naval blockade as they have already send warships to protect Karachi and Gwadar. So only option we have is move 1 mil troops to LOC. Or that is also not possible without Unkil's permission? Boss what a castrated bunch of eunuchs we are!!!

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby ASPuar » 02 Dec 2008 10:38

Jagan wrote:
Duangkomon wrote:
I wonder what his name was and what happened to him. Sunil says he was gunned down. Did he die of his wounds?? The special sense of duty and a rare stoic courage displayed by the Taj employees is quite awe-inspiring at the same time makes their loss even more heart wrenching. We have to put names to these people instead of just referring them as "hotel employee", "bar maid", "manager", etc.


Can he be Marcos (beard?) or do the NSG also sport one nowadays?

I wonder how many of the Marcos / NSG were wounded - this is the third or fourth such interview we have read recently.


Note the media emphasis on not using military ranks wherever possible. Someone, somewhere is very very keen on making sure that noone realises that the NSG troops who were involved in the op were all armymen. And even more keen to ensure that the MARCOS and Army who responded to the calls for help are not even acknowledged.

What, for instance is "Black Cat Commando"? It is not even an official term.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby vera_k » 02 Dec 2008 10:39

Singha wrote:but white and Indian women in general?

no idea about whites but among indian women, restricted to only those in bollywood, media & academia.


Merits some follow up I think. We may be better off drafting Irfan Pathan lookalikes into the IFS.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Austin » 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Rahul M wrote:
sunilUpa wrote:
Austin wrote:Guys I am perhaps asking the same question again , instead of fighting terrorist in close combat and loosing life and limb , why dont we develop some kind of Chemical Gas , which can immediately either make them faint or just disorient them for some time ( russian showed that such a chemical weapon is possible )

Now the chances that the terrorist may have a gas mask is always there , but it will also hamper them if they use it .

We do have DRDO facility at Gwalior which has expertise in C&BW , its good to catch them alive than kill them to get intel from them

Any one who can agree here , can we discuss the pro and cons of such weapon ?


Austin,
What you want is the proverbial magic bullet, the madical community has been searching for ages. Let try to simplify the problem.
1. Every drug (which is a chemical) has a minimum level below which it won't act (MEC) and a maximum level above which it is toxic (=MTD), the differece b/w these two level is Therapeutic window, i,e region where drug acts and is safe.
2. To act fast it should be absorbed in to the body fast (in this case instantaneous, through lungs), should be potent (low MEC) and low toxicity (High MTD).
3. Now fast acting, potent drugs have narrow Therapeutic window. In this case they will affect Central nervous system, the subject will loose consciousness, will continue to breathe the drug. Very soon the blood level of the drug will cross MTD and unfortunately in these class of drugs will cause death. That's what the Russians found out. That's what will happen with most of the anesthetics if dose is not controlled.
4. If one can find a way to regulate the dose, you have the 'Ramban".

Sorry if I confused you further.

another problem will be that the aforementioned doses will differ from person to person, depending on age, sex and health.

what may be minimum dosage for a full grown male might be lethal for a sick toddler.


Look there is no ram baan and I agree that dosage may wary from person to person , I saw the post by Shiv as well.

But lets look at the one instance when it was used , some "magic non lethal gas" was used , in a situation when there were terrorist ( men and women ) who were like on hair trigger alert with bombs tied to their vest , but *none* got time to react , they were in deep sleep and so were most of the hostages ( quite a few were semi-concious ) , but most fatalities were due to the fact that doctors couldnt determine what chemical was exactly used and hence didnt have a clue how to revive them , not to mention the authorities were not forthcoming

Now the situation there was far more hostile than at Taj , for conducting a rescue operation , any doubt on terrorist mind and they would blow up the place .

Any way the point is even if you have a higher dosage , it might be fatal but not immediately , the SF do have a fair chance of apprehending him alive , a bullet vs bullet scenerio will be mostly fatal.

If the DRDO folks can develop such a substance which is odorless , colorless and works immediately ( even if there is a catch that it can be fatal with overdose , we still have time to revive with antidote being available with SF ) , this will just make any rescue , CT ops less bloodier.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul M » 02 Dec 2008 10:52

IIRC they sported black cat badges (a badge showing a black panther) in the early days.
the term has become semi-official.

But lets look at the one instance when it was used , some "magic non lethal gas" was used , in a situation when there were terrorist ( men and women ) who were like on hair trigger alert with bombs tied to their vest , but *none* got time to react , they were in deep sleep and so were most of the hostages ( quite a few were semi-concious ) , but most fatalities were due to the fact that doctors couldnt determine what chemical was exactly used and hence didnt have a clue how to revive them , not to mention the authorities were not forthcoming


Austin, that is NOT correct.

I've mentioned in the earlier post that the male terrorists DID understand what was going on when they saw people falling off asleep.

The ONLY thing that saved the russians was the fact that the suicide vests were worn by the female terrorists who nodded off earlier.
It was a quirk of fate, Nothing more.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby VikramS » 02 Dec 2008 10:56

Praveen wrote:http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/79529/watch-2611-terrorist-caught-on-csts-cctv-camera.html

In the above video one of the pig can be clearly seen gesturing something(ok? bye? takecare? kind of gesture) to someone not in the video. That means some other person helped them get there. It appears around 13 - 15 sec into the video.


What I do not understand is why was no one monitoring these CCTV feeds? These are color cameras with good night time resolution but no alarm seems to have been raised by the presence of people with AK assault rifles and bullet-proof vests!

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Austin » 02 Dec 2008 10:58

Rahul M wrote:IIRC they sported black cat badges (a badge showing a black panther) in the early days.
the term has become semi-official.

But lets look at the one instance when it was used , some "magic non lethal gas" was used , in a situation when there were terrorist ( men and women ) who were like on hair trigger alert with bombs tied to their vest , but *none* got time to react , they were in deep sleep and so were most of the hostages ( quite a few were semi-concious ) , but most fatalities were due to the fact that doctors couldnt determine what chemical was exactly used and hence didnt have a clue how to revive them , not to mention the authorities were not forthcoming


Austin, that is NOT correct.

I've mentioned in the earlier post that the male terrorists DID understand what was going on when they saw people falling off asleep.

The ONLY thing that saved the russians was the fact that the suicide vests were worn by the female terrorists who nodded off earlier.
It was a quirk of fate, Nothing more.


Fine lets take that argument that the male did knew what was coming and inspite of having assult rifles they didnt fire , but then look at the other option , do you think even storming that place with the best SF would have caused less blood shed ? I think any storming would have been blood bath.

I think the "magic gas" saved the day , the life lost was due to stupidity and carelessness.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby ramana » 02 Dec 2008 11:00

Austin, All that is unobtanium. One has to fight with what one has access to.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby asprinzl » 02 Dec 2008 11:06

Folks, have a question here. In one of the picture, the caption among other things mentions"......widow of Maibam Bimolchandra Singh......" The people in the picture look very Sinic and I thought Singh is basically a Punjabi name. Can someone throw some light on this.
AS

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby ramana » 02 Dec 2008 11:06

So what happened at Ville Parle? Ie the Airport.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Dhiman » 02 Dec 2008 11:07

I wish I had a transcript, but Farid Zakaria said something along the following lines when asked by Anderson Cooper about India and Mumbai terrorism:

India is a country where people just go about their business and things just happen without any governance (He was basically saying that whatever happens in India is generally upto public because there is no actual governance in India). While the private sector does well and is vibrant, anything in which government is involved is ineffective. Muslims in India have generally stayed away from terrorism mentality, but they are underrepresented, have not seen the social/economic benefits that the rest have seen, have greviences, and feel discriminated against and hence it is always possible for terrorist organizations to find a dozen muslims who would be willing to provide local support for such acts of terrorism. Finally he said: India needs to get its house in order (with lot of emphasis).


Anderson Cooper introduced Zakaria by saying that his mother works in the Mumbai Taj hotel as editor of the local Taj hotel magazine.

Although, I don't doubt Mr. Zakaria's sincerity, I wish he would have given some exposure to other side of the coin as well. The least he could have done is to point out that there are over 3000 madrassas in India and most teach nothing but Arabic and Koran as a result of which Muslims youth who graduate out of these Madrassas have absolutely no skills when it comes to getting a real job.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby ramana » 02 Dec 2008 11:08

asprinzl wrote:Folks, have a question here. In one of the picture, the caption among other things mentions"......widow of Maibam Bimolchandra Singh......" The people in the picture look very Sinic and I thought Singh is basically a Punjabi name. Can someone throw some light on this.
AS


Yes its from Imphal. Hope that answer you question. India is a large and diverse and complex country or continent.

Fareed Zakarai is old congress heritage. He thinks he knows that India.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby a_kumar » 02 Dec 2008 11:11

Rahul M wrote:
Austin wrote:Guys I am perhaps asking the same question again , instead of fighting terrorist in close combat and loosing life and limb , why dont we develop some kind of Chemical Gas , which can immediately either make them faint or just disorient them for some time ( russian showed that such a chemical weapon is possible )

Now the chances that the terrorist may have a gas mask is always there , but it will also hamper them if they use it .

We do have DRDO facility at Gwalior which has expertise in C&BW , its good to catch them alive than kill them to get intel from them

Any one who can agree here , can we discuss the pro and cons of such weapon ?

that idea was brilliant until torpedoed by the lack of support measures of the russi authorities.

that said, there is one huge con:
if it isn't instantaneous(virtually impossible to achieve) terrorists will understand what is going on and may take everyone with them.
in the moscow theatre they actually realised what was going on but the women terrorists who had the suicide vests were knocked off first preventing the huge kaboom.


I guess gas of somekind may be useful in the situations like Beslan where if one bullet is fired, somebody is going to hit a switch and everything will blow up. Also, it probably needs centralized AC system and probably no vents.

But Mumbai is a different situation. Their is firing going on from all sides and in some cases in open areas. Gas will likely not work in open staircases and huge spaces.

What is ideally needed are tranquilizer guns. Come to think of it, it shouldn't be so difficult to build. To the terrorist, it would seem like he got hit and he will probably bleed too.. but a few seconds/minutes later, he will be ready for pick-up.

Added Later : Meant to mention Moscow Theatre Siege.
Last edited by a_kumar on 02 Dec 2008 13:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby amitmas » 02 Dec 2008 11:12

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Kerala_CM_insults_slain_Majors_dad/articleshow/3781262.cms

My head hangs in Shame.
A day after Sandeep's father heaped scorn on the chief minister and Kerala's home minister Kodiyeri Balakrishnan, who visited his Bangalore home on Sunday, Achuthanandan retorted that "not even a dog would have visited the house'' had it not been the martyr's.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby ramana » 02 Dec 2008 11:16

Please start new thread once this one reaches 50 pages.

Thanks, ramana

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Kati » 02 Dec 2008 11:24

asprinzl wrote:Folks, have a question here. In one of the picture, the caption among other things mentions"......widow of Maibam Bimolchandra Singh......" The people in the picture look very Sinic and I thought Singh is basically a Punjabi name. Can someone throw some light on this.
AS


Maibam Bimolchandra Singh is from Manipur, he belongs to Meiti tribe.
Meitis are usually hindus, and the "Singh' last name is very common in the tiny north-eastern state of Manipur
after the Vaishnavite guru who preached Vaishnavite teachings of Hinduism.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby mohanty » 02 Dec 2008 11:27

amitmas wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Kerala_CM_insults_slain_Majors_dad/articleshow/3781262.cms

My head hangs in Shame.
A day after Sandeep's father heaped scorn on the chief minister and Kerala's home minister Kodiyeri Balakrishnan, who visited his Bangalore home on Sunday, Achuthanandan retorted that "not even a dog would have visited the house'' had it not been the martyr's.


Don't be ashamed, the doggy didn't know that his kind are not allowed in that house. So he is just stating that. Someday they will get that right. After a few evolutions. Until then throw him a bone and hope he goes to Delhi to guard the Italian Mafia.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby ss_roy » 02 Dec 2008 11:35

Carfentanil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carfentanil

Moscow theater hostage crisis

It is thought that in the 2002 Moscow theater hostage crisis, the Russian military made use of an aerosol form of either carfentanil or another similar drug such as 3-methylfentanyl to subdue Chechen hostage takers.[2] Its short action, easy reversibility and therapeutic index (10600 vs. 300 for fentanyl) would make it a near-perfect agent for this purpose. Wax et al. surmise from the available evidence that the Moscow emergency services had not been informed of the use of the agent, but were instructed to bring opioid antagonists. Because of the lack of information provided, the emergency workers did not bring adequate supplies of naloxone or naltrexone (opioid antagonists) to prevent complications in many of the victims . Assuming that carfentanil was the only active constituent (which has not been verified by the Russian military), the primary acute toxic effect to the theatre victims would have been opioid-induced apnea; in this case mechanical ventilation and/or treatment with opioid antagonists would have been life-saving for many or all victims


Naltrexone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naltrexone

Naltrexone is an opioid receptor antagonist used primarily in the management of alcohol dependence and opioid dependence. It is marketed in generic form as its hydrochloride salt, naltrexone hydrochloride, and marketed under the trade names Revia and Depade. In some countries including the United States, an extended-release formulation is marketed under the trade name Vivitrol. It should not be confused with naloxone, which is used in emergency cases of overdose rather than for longer-term dependence control. This is not to say that Naltrexone cannot be used to reverse an overdose from opioids, since being a full antagonist, it will reverse an overdose. However given that it is a long-acting antagonist, Naloxone would be a more ideal antidote in emergency situations.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby tsarkar » 02 Dec 2008 11:38

Some quick thoughts –

1. There was talk of NSG given its air wing –

In my view, highly impractical, as the logistics burden of operating and maintaining the aircraft would be overwhelming for the NSG. There is no guarantee that terrorists cannot discern the time of routine maintenance of the aircraft and choosing those specific days for the attack.

It’s always better to use IAF resources. IAF transport squadrons will always have readily available planes from its squadron strength. In addition, C-130s will enter service in some years.

2. There was talk of NSG groups being deployed in various cities –

In my view, highly impractical. Such Quick Reaction Teams need to comprise of locals.

For example, during operations, Sikhs or Gurkhas from central forces will find it difficult to liaise with a Marathi fisherman, Chennai auto driver or Bengali shopkeeper unless they speak the local language.

More importantly, central forces will be completely unaware of local nuances and socio-economic factors. For example, a panwalla may turn hostile if a central force demolishes his shanty during an operation that is his livelihood. A local force can explain the rationale, assuage and earn cooperation much easier.

This was the reason J&K police SOG was created. Its time to expand the concept across states. Its better if NSG acts as a regimental center for state Quick Reaction Forces. NSG directing staff comprised of veterans of J&K/NE operations will train company/battalion strength state forces at regimental HQ. States will depute personnel from their armed battalions – Eg Maharashtra SRPF, UP PAC, etc. Standardized training will bring state forces up to par. Post training state forces will be sent back to their home states to establish QRTs. NSG will also conduct regular exercises and regularly assess competency. Home Ministry & States to be flagged if competency of any state QRT falls below acceptable levels.

Maintaining a QRT that is often jobless for most of the year, will induce lethargy among the QRT members in any particular state. This can be addressed by having state QRT members rotated among different police units. This will impart fresh skills to local units like Crime Branch. The QRT members will pick investigative and intelligence gathering skills.

The above concept can be expanded to state coastal police with Coast Guard Districts as training centers

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Singha » 02 Dec 2008 11:44

Kati, minor nitpick - I believe its Meitei. all the manipuris I ever knew have surname "Singh" for men and "Devi" for women (remember Kunjurani Devi the powerlifter?). and pretty much they are vaishnavite hindus which is seen in the "manipuri" style of dance - one of the 8 indic classical forms bharat natyam(TN), kuchipudi(AP), kathak(N India), kathakali(Kerala), odissi(orissa), satriya(assam), mohiniattam(kerala) and manipuri.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Austin » 02 Dec 2008 11:50

ramana wrote:So what happened at Ville Parle? Ie the Airport.


Well most accounts say that terrorist had left a bomb in the taxi to get rid of any trail , sadly the taxi and the driver was blown to pieces

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Airavat » 02 Dec 2008 11:54

asprinzl wrote:Folks, have a question here. In one of the picture, the caption among other things mentions"......widow of Maibam Bimolchandra Singh......" The people in the picture look very Sinic and I thought Singh is basically a Punjabi name. Can someone throw some light on this.
AS


Singh is originally a surname of Rajput warriors derived from Sanskrit Simha, meaning lion. It was adopted by the Sikhs on the command of Guru Govind Singh in the 17th century when he turned them into a community of warriors.

As Kati said he's from Manipur (google for "Manipuri Rajput"). People from Nepal and Uttarakhand also have sinic features and the Singh surname.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Hiten » 02 Dec 2008 12:02

News Flash on NDTV: -

Navy Chief:
Live coverage on NEWS channels hampered tactical operations.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Singha » 02 Dec 2008 12:05

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 68,00.html

a south african security detail sent for champions league seems to have
helped some people in Taj

note that people didnt even realize pigs were running around inside building until much later. a general "siren" activated by staff would have sent people scurrying for fire exits and cleared the place of potential hostages faster.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Philip » 02 Dec 2008 12:09

Mumbai attacks: Terrorists took cocaine to stay awake during assault

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... sault.html

Terrorists who battled Indian commandos for 60-hours last week relied on cocaine and other stimulants to stay awake for the duration of the fight.

By Damien McElroy in Mumbai
Last Updated: 6:50AM GMT 02 Dec 2008

Officials said drug paraphernalia, including syringes, was recovered from the scene of the attacks, which killed almost 200 people.

The heavily built men, who had undergone training at a special marine camp established by the Lashkar-e-Taibat (LeT) terrorist group in Pakistan, had also used steroids to build a tougher physique.

"We found injections containing traces of cocaine and LSD left behind by the terrorists and later found drugs in their blood," said one official.

"There was also evidence of steroids, which isn't uncommon in terrorists.

"These men were all toned, suggesting they had been doing some heavy training for the attacks. This explains why they managed to battle the commandos for over 50 hours with no food or sleep."

One terrorist used the drugs to keep on fighting despite suffering a life-threatening injury.

Drugs are commonly used in India by workers in jobs where a lack of sleep is demanded, such as truck drivers and security guards.

The 10 men who attacked prominent Mumbai landmarks were able to hold off hundreds of India's best trained special forces by mounting sophisticated ambushes, maintaining a constant, steady rate of return fire and a superior knowledge of the layout of the buildings seized.

The gunman captured during the attacks on Mumbai has told police he underwent months of commando-style training in an Islamist militant camp in Pakistan.

The training was organised by the LeT and conducted by a former member of the Pakistani army, a police officer close to the interrogation said.

"They underwent training in several phases, which included training in handling weapons, bomb making, survival strategies, survival in a marine environment and even dietary habits," a senior officer said.


Pakistan faces calls to curb its pro-Islamist intelligence service
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 47097.html

The ISI had links with the group blamed for carrying out the Mumbai attacks, reports Kim Sengupta

Tuesday, 2 December 2008

Pakistani links to terror raise tensions in region
Bullet-scarred Cafe Leopold returns to life

As tension between Delhi and Islamabad mounts following the Mumbai massacre, the shadowy activities of Pakistan's intelligence service, ISI, has come under renewed critical spotlight.

Pakistan is expected to face huge pressure from the US and the West to curb the organisation which has sponsored an array of Islamist terrorists, including Lashkar-e-Toiba, the group being blamed for the attacks which led to around 180 deaths.

However, Pakistan's recently elected civilian government has very limited room for manoeuvre. Many of those who are ministers now have had to deal with the ISI in the past to safeguard their careers, and the intelligence service knows where the bodies are buried in the violent and murky political history of the country. The agency also has a vast coffer, with revenues coming from an array of sources including a vast official budget and proceeds from the opium trade, and is unlikely to surrender its political and economic clout without a fight.

American and British commanders in Afghanistan and President Hamid Karzai's administration have repeatedly claimed that the ISI had been playing a key role in training and supplying arms to Taliban fighters carrying out cross-border attacks from Pakistan. Nato's commander in the country, the US general David McKiernan, charged that there was " a level of ISI complicity" between the organisation and the insurgents.

Last week the Pakistani government announced that it had taken major steps towards reforming the ISI by shutting down its political unit. The move aims to halt the organisation's domestic spying operations on politicians. In theory this should help protect public figures such as President Asif Ali Zardari who has a long shadow of corruption hanging over him.

Analysts point out that the move would have little practical effect. The staff from the political unit have not been dismissed but absorbed within the organisation and would carry on their work under another guise. Even if the ban worked, it would not, it is claimed, curtail the organisation's close links with Islamist extremists.

The Pakistani government and military insist that Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha, who took over as the ISI's head, with its staff of 10,400 and tens of thousands of informers, will oversee changes which will make it more accountable. There is, however, little sign of this at the moment.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby vasu_ray » 02 Dec 2008 12:18

In addition,

we should be having a building/struture mapping technology, the same kind used in oceanographic research to map ocean floors, however small enough to be carried around and its sensors/emitters dispersed to be able to triage the internal structure including the material type

remote infra red cameras with voice capture that can transmit back and which can be dispersed un obstrusively, they can literally be sprayed, enemy doesn't get time to clean them

bio warfare?

a limited radius EMP generator, will switched off equipment fry as well? even media goes blank

signal jammers, wire locators

remotely piloted vehicles that can climb stairs, fly/hover with video/audio transmission capability and silent enough

tracer bullets

oxygen sucking devices to limit any kind of combustion, if they can get the grenades the better, not sure if this is feasible, the grenades perhaps operate at 1/100th of a second to ignite and generate a shockwave, the detector has to latch its timing and do its bit perhaps even faster, humans will be able to breathe back as everything happens under a second.


trip wires that either cause explosions (WW2 style) or harm those falling on glass shards or metal spikes

All these are perhaps easier than handling the unfolding external situation...

those chinese made plastic grenades which skip the detectors can be sold to non state actors, is licensing not required?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby ss_roy » 02 Dec 2008 12:28

I think an updated Indian version of the M-1 Carbine (Not the M-1 Garand) would be a good inexpensive replacement for the currently issued, accurate but unwieldy, .303 rifles. We could chamber it for a cheaper/more widely used caliber like the .357 Magnum (revolver ammo). The single biggest advantage of this weapon over a rifle caliber (even the .223 NATO) would be the lower potential to bust the unprotected user's eardrum when used in in enclosed spaces (surprise attacks in rooms, tunnels, etc).

The updated reverse engineered weapon would be a short barrel (18-24 inch) semi-automatic carbine that could put 20-30 rounds (10-12g bullets) with a time tested action at around 1800-1900 ft/s (pistol rounds develop much higher velocities in carbine length weapons). I think it would defeat standard issue body armor (NIJ Type 2 or maybe even Type 3A) upto 200 feet, with minimum bullet drop upto 500 feet. It should not be too hard to reverse engineer and improve an 80 year old weapon.

Or we could just produce a robust and longer barreled versions of the MP-5 chambered in for the .357 magnum. Either way, you get a lighter and more versatile urban carbine.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Sudhanshu » 02 Dec 2008 12:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBHY0e3K4SY

might be useful for Nariman house type operations.
Hope NSG had already used this tactics there.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby manjgu » 02 Dec 2008 12:31

q1) any info on the identity of the slain militants.. and id of the mr girlie shorty ?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Airavat » 02 Dec 2008 12:34

Philip wrote:Mumbai attacks: Terrorists took cocaine to stay awake during assault

Terrorists who battled Indian commandos for 60-hours last week relied on cocaine and other stimulants to stay awake for the duration of the fight. By Damien McElroy in Mumbai


Maroof Raza on Times Now had said the same thing while the war in Mumbai was on. Any place where a recording of that discussion is available?

YouTube only has the Suhel Seth, Padamsee etc discussion.

Lekhraj
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Lekhraj » 02 Dec 2008 12:36

I did missed the news item on US sending warships to protect Kar-aachi and Gwadar. Can please somebody post the link?

thanks

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Singha » 02 Dec 2008 12:37

we have discussed the MP5-for-all approach many yrs ago here. problem
is the state police get a _annual_ visit to firing range if they are lucky.
until this situation is improved to monthly visits where they can fire off
100s of rounds of ammo, a untrained guy with a meaty automatic weapon
is going to cause mayhem. if we do requip, the automatic mode has to be disabled (not that its of any use for precision fire, just covering fire).

whatever be the weapon they must get more firing practice. Massa law enforcement types have official ranges and are also members of the local ranges and gun clubs and can practise as a pastime too.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Raja » 02 Dec 2008 12:38

Singha wrote:http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1862868,00.html

a south african security detail sent for champions league seems to have
helped some people in Taj

note that people didnt even realize pigs were running around inside building until much later. a general "siren" activated by staff would have sent people scurrying for fire exits and cleared the place of potential hostages faster.


A general siren? That might have sent more people towards the lobby or dedicated fire exits resulting in more casualties. I think the gun shots and bomb explosions were enough of an indicator, no?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Singha » 02 Dec 2008 12:51

the article claims people kept on eating dinner even after they got news
of gunshots down in the lobby. strange.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby niran » 02 Dec 2008 12:52

around the 9/11 time went to visit a relative SSP at his house.
found that they have dedicated Police Driver and a Police Body Guard.
This guard carried the famous DooNaali as the weapon. It did seemed
a very odd and cumbersome weapon, I asked him the obvious
His reply .303 was not issued due to the fact it was in short supply.
on whether he fired this weapon in practice,
His reply: oh! fikir mat kijea, he cleans it every week, had fired live
around 3 yrs ago.I think this explains the status of our Force.

A Revolution is needed, not just few patches here and there.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby milindc » 02 Dec 2008 12:56

John McCain is arriving in India on Tuesday, scheduled to meet PM at 8 p.m. IST

IndianExpress breaking news..
Something is cooking

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby kobe » 02 Dec 2008 12:59

10 b***t*s killing 200 unarmed innocent people are miscreants? is pakistani breast groping prime minister a mental case? how can indian prime minister tolerate this language?
shame on you manmohan singh. stop hiding behind sonia
and do something. this is not tolerable.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Aditya G » 02 Dec 2008 13:02

PN has its own SSG unit. Probably the "former army" personnel behind this....

The training was organised by the LeT and conducted by a former member of the Pakistani army, a police officer close to the interrogation said.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby veejey » 02 Dec 2008 13:05

VikramS wrote:
Praveen wrote:http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/79529/watch-2611-terrorist-caught-on-csts-cctv-camera.html

In the above video one of the pig can be clearly seen gesturing something(ok? bye? takecare? kind of gesture) to someone not in the video. That means some other person helped them get there. It appears around 13 - 15 sec into the video.


Every Indian is rightfully upset with Pakistan and most of the posts here are about Pakistan Linkages in this terrorist act. I really doubt how far political establishment in Pakistan will be able to help us even if one assumes that whatever they are saying on TV is true. They are mere puppets in the hands of Military Establishment. Look at the way in which their President and PM is giving out daily interviews to various news channels. Every now & then they are back tracking from their previous statements. I guess their political leadership is confused. I am sure that inspite of best efforts from us and US, Pak Military will not allow investigation to come to their soil.

Therefore in this situation first of all we should concentrate on support system of these terrorists. Terrorism act of such magnitude can not be successful without some rogue elements in India supporting them. Above video clearly shows the pig waving goodbye to some one. We should search them out and punish them severely. (Thank god we have MOCOCA in Maharashtra)

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby lakshmikanth » 02 Dec 2008 13:19

Unkil's strategy is working, even before the Rice Visit.

breaking news on Indian Express: India not considering military action against Pakistan

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/india-not-considering-military-action-against-pak/393204/

We truly must be the greatest GUBOs on planet earth :((


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