Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

lakshmikanth
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby lakshmikanth » 29 Nov 2008 12:17

Watching Times Now, Sanitization being shown.

What i dont understand is.. they are taking injured people into ambulances, and these EDITED reporters are gliding down to the injured like a bunch of vultures with the excuse of getting interviews.

We should learn from the Goras, they leave injured people alone for the most of the time. I dont know why our EDITED dont learn. Also we dont have a concept of the yellow DO_NO_CROSS lines.


truly sad.
Last edited by Jagan on 29 Nov 2008 12:20, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited - Check PM

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Jagan » 29 Nov 2008 12:19

suvod wrote:dont know if this has been posted before - yesterday, some posters alluded to a TOI journalist being possibly involved in the attack. She had gone missing in the Taj at around 11pm on Thursday. She has actually been identified as Sabina Saikia, TOI journalist who came to Mumbai to attend the wedding of Bachchi Karkaria's daughter. Bachchi is a regular columnist for TOI. Sabina is feared to be among the casualties at the Taj. My sincere condolences. And a reminder to all of us that we should not come to any premature conclusions.


Yes , a lot of BRF members were quite eager to jump on the bandwagon of doubting the lady without mentioning any reliable information on how they came to that conclusion.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby R_Kumar » 29 Nov 2008 12:19

MohanG wrote:What is this ? Any other collaboration ?

But what angered Mr D'Souza almost as much were the masses of armed police hiding in the area who simply refused to shoot back. "There were armed policemen hiding all around the station but none of them did anything," he said. "At one point, I ran up to them and told them to use their weapons. I said, 'Shoot them, they're sitting ducks!' but they just didn't shoot back."

As the gunmen fired at policemen taking cover across the street, Mr D'Souza realised a train was pulling into the station unaware of the horror within. "I couldn't believe it. We rushed to the platform and told everyone to head towards the back of the station. Those who were older and couldn't run, we told them to stay put."

The militants returned inside the station and headed towards a rear exit towards Chowpatty Beach. Mr D'Souza added: "I told some policemen the gunmen had moved towards the rear of the station but they refused to follow them. What is the point if having policemen with guns if they refuse to use them? I only wish I had a gun rather than a camera."


My guess is that they must be GRPF and many of them might not have used their gun in long time and may not be sure if it will work. We need huge changes in all the police forces. I don't have much complain against these police men. I don't think they are trained for such situation and of course they have weapons only to frighten poor railway travelers.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Patni » 29 Nov 2008 12:23

p_saggu wrote:Mumbaikar BRFites,
With your knowledge of the geography of Mumbai, We know that girlie boy landed at India gate then went on to CST, he was apprehended on his way out of CST on the road. I would like to know form you guys where these guys were headed? What would have been their likely destination???


They landed opp. Badhwar park fisher colony and took a cab to CST station where they were captured on CCTV camera and open fired on innocent Indians. From there they went to cama hospital and thats were the ATS chief lost his life trying to save his fellow countrymans. It appears that they took over a police van and cruised to Metro Junction and fired on to the onlookers and journalists ( were captured live on tv camera). speeded off towards marine lines station and seems must have taken queen's road to reach churchgate. Somewhere there they switched vehicle ( hijacked a car to get out of the police van which was captured on camera). It seems the police gave them chase after that. They were then using the famous sea fronted queen's neckless road going towards chowpaty beach. Thats where police roadblock stopped them. I have read that the tires were shot out and they stopped moved the car sideways and opened fired on police roadblock. One terrorists who was the driver was killed (the same one who apparently navigated from Karachi to Mumabi in boat) and a group of brave mumbai police armed no better then small firearms and 0.303 sneaked up and nabbed that girlie boy from back seat.

It seems that they might be trying to draw away police from the Taj and Trident or may be trying to get away and reach chowpaty beach in darkness and make a getaway in a dingy. Its also likely they might be heading towards airport to reach some other fivestar hotels! we can only speculate till more details emerge. If needed i can draw up a map with locations marked and maybe fellow members help build an accurate time lines for major events.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Kati » 29 Nov 2008 12:24

lakshmikanth wrote:Watching Times Now, Sanitization being shown.

What i dont understand is.. they are taking injured people into ambulances, and these EDITED reporters are gliding down to the injured like a bunch of vultures with the excuse of getting interviews.

We should learn from the Goras, they leave injured people alone for the most of the time. I dont know why our EDITED dont learn. Also we dont have a concept of the yellow DO_NO_CROSS lines.


truly sad.


It'll take just a few law-suits by the families of the injured ones against these dog-like media persons
for creating nuisance and thus delaying treatment. I wish some enterprising young lawyers had
jumped into such cases against these foreign funded media for a fat compensation.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby SwamyG » 29 Nov 2008 12:24

Meenakshi Ravi @ HuffingtonPost: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/meenakshi ... 47046.html on the divide and rule policy of the parties. Of course cites the issues with BJP, but never works on the appeasement spree of Congress, and also does not talk about the attitude of Congress/Left on national politics. It ends up being a one-side affair.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Jagan » 29 Nov 2008 12:26

R_Kumar wrote:[
My guess is that they must be GRPF and many of them might not have used their gun in long time and may not be sure if it will work. We need huge changes in all the police forces. I don't have much complain against these police men. I don't think they are trained for such situation and of course they have weapons only to frighten poor railway travelers.


It is either the jawan or the Officer in charge of the jawan to make sure that the guns are properly maintained, the ammunition is of the required standards and the requisite firing skills are of standards. Properly trained, and from a position of vantage, the .303 can be an effective weapon. But when the jawan doesnt have practice of firing it often, and doesnot know his weapon enough, and cant shoot accurately - thats when the self-doubts and lack of confidence creeps in. This requires a drastic change in training methodology.

Having fired hundreds of rounds in an army maintained 303 without a single failed round, i found it incredible that one of the rifles of the railway jawans failed to work after the first two rounds and he was killed. this was a needless tragedy that could have been avoided thorugh proper implementation of procedures.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Hiten » 29 Nov 2008 12:26

Does anybody know the name and designation of the NSG officer who was shown to be standing with the DG of NSG while he was addressing the press outside the Taj?

He was also shown on a number of other occasions on TV during the NSG operations

He was wearing a Black hat [not a Beret or Helmet] and wore spectacles

While walking with alongside the DG he had a MP5 slung around his neck

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Sumeet » 29 Nov 2008 12:28

hiten,

even if anyone knows about it, they won't tell you. Its common sense. Don't ask such questions on open forums.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby lakshmikanth » 29 Nov 2008 12:29

Kati wrote:
lakshmikanth wrote:Watching Times Now, Sanitization being shown.

What i dont understand is.. they are taking injured people into ambulances, and these EDITED reporters are gliding down to the injured like a bunch of vultures with the excuse of getting interviews.

We should learn from the Goras, they leave injured people alone for the most of the time. I dont know why our EDITED dont learn. Also we dont have a concept of the yellow DO_NO_CROSS lines.


truly sad.


It'll take just a few law-suits by the families of the injured ones against these dog-like media persons
for creating nuisance and thus delaying treatment. I wish some enterprising young lawyers had
jumped into such cases against these foreign funded media for a fat compensation.


Sadly there is another aspect too from the visual: behind the Taj the dead bodies taken out and there are a billion jingoes waiting outside. I dont know what soooo many people have to do out there. Can't they pick the bodies out from the morgue and leave the people who do the sanitation alone. Sometimes, I fail to understand the mentality of our desi guy maybe because I am a Non-Required Indian (NRI)

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Nov 2008 12:32

The last time India-Pakistan were on the Brink of war, Godhra happened and it divided the country into 2.

No body has still answered why Godhra train burning happened and how the subsequent riots divided the country into 2. Surely, I dont think any Indian muslim would like to burn a coach with 80 people i it?

The way the BBC is harping on so called massecares of muslims in India. With the current mood so strong India CIA, MI5, MI6 and ISI might be trying anther such incident.

Is there anyway we can get the larger Indian public to be aware of this danger.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul M » 29 Nov 2008 12:33

newsX reports: 36 grenades recovered from taj. terrorists used MP-5.
don't know if these are empty rumours.

Sadly there is another aspect too from the visual: behind the Taj the dead bodies taken out and there are a billion jingoes waiting outside. I dont know what soooo many people have to do out there. Can't they pick the bodies out from the morgue and leave the people who do the sanitation alone. Sometimes, I fail to understand the mentality of our desi guy maybe because I am a Non-Required Indian (NRI)

you think the security forces would allow that ?

this is not a normal mishap like train accidents where the Indian public is ALWAYS the first on the scene and take care of injured much before the govt forces even arrive at the scene.
do know about your countrymen before making comments like these.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby svinayak » 29 Nov 2008 12:35


Indian Forces Comb Taj Mahal After Deadliest Attack Since 1993

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... mmrhi_hdrU

By Vipin Nair and Stephen Foxwell

Nov. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Indian forces combed the luxury Taj Mahal hotel in Mumbai looking for survivors of the nation's deadliest attack in at least 15 years after commandos killed the remaining terrorists to end a 60-hour siege.

At least 195 people were killed in the attacks on the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower and Oberoi-Trident hotels, a Jewish center, railway station and restaurant, S Jadhav, an official at the city's disaster management unit said.

Two blasts were heard inside the Taj Mahal Hotel after the National Security Guard said in a public announcement it would set off controlled explosions. Firemen who were putting out a blaze that started shortly after daybreak pulled back from the building. Ratan Tata, Chairman of Tata Group, which owns the Taj Hotel, visited the site with officials from the group.

Busloads of commandoes moved in earlier to do a room-by-room search after gunshots and blasts that had rocked the building in the early hours of today subsided. The siege on the hotel is over, Press Trust of India said in a news flash.

The NSG wasn't declaring an end to the crisis until all rooms at the Taj Mahal hotel were searched, J.K. Dutt, director general of NSG commando unit, said at a briefing, adding some guests may still be in the complex.

Foreigners Killed

More than 295 people were injured as the attackers moved through India's financial hub, Jadhav said.

Most of those who died were Indians and a final death toll hasn't been officially released. Five Americans died in the attacks, the U.S. State Department said in a statement. More U.S. citizens are missing. A German, two Australians, two Frenchmen, a Briton, a Japanese, a Canadian, a Singaporean and an Italian were among the dead, the Associated Press said yesterday.

Two rabbis from New York were among five hostages and two attackers who died at the Jewish Chabad-Lubavitch Center in Mumbai when it was stormed by Indian commandos.

The attack is the deadliest in India since a series of bomb blasts rocked Mumbai's commercial landmarks, including the Bombay Stock Exchange building, killing more than 250 people in 1993.

The 1993 blasts were blamed by the police on members of the Mumbai underworld, belonging to Dawood Ibrahim's gang. India says Ibrahim is hiding in Pakistan, a charge the neighboring country denies.

A little-known Islamist group, the Deccan Mujahedeen, claimed responsibility for the shootings and explosions across the western coastal city that started late on Nov. 26, Indian Home Ministry official M.L. Kumawat said.

The attackers began planning their assaults six months ago, India's NDTV reported, citing an account from a captured terrorist. A seized global positioning system showed some of the group left Karachi, Pakistan, as early as Nov. 12, NDTV said.

Advance Surveys

Lashkar-i-Taiba or Jaish-i-Muhammad, two Muslim extremist terrorist groups from Pakistan that have attacked India in the past, may be involved, MSNBC reported on its Web site, citing unidentified analysts and counterterrorism officials. The groups are linked to violence in Kashmir, a region over which India and Pakistan have fought.

The attackers were familiar with their targets and had probably done surveys in advance, a leader of Indian commandos said yesterday in a video on the Times of India Web site.

``We came up against highly motivated terrorists,'' Vice- Admiral J.S. Bedi, whose commandos led the assault against the militants, said in televised comments. He showed pictures of recovered hand grenades, tear-gas shells and AK-47 ammunition.

Multiple Attacks

Multiple attacks have hit cities in India, which is mostly Hindu, with bombs planted in markets, theaters and near mosques this year, leaving more than 300 people dead.

India will ``go after'' individuals and organizations behind the attacks, which were ``well-planned with external linkages,'' Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said in a televised address, without identifying nations.

Pakistan's government turned down India's request to send the chief of the military intelligence agency to investigate the Mumbai terror attacks, CNN-IBN television reported today.

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari said earlier he will send the intelligence head to India for the first time to counter claims that the attackers are linked to his country.

Pakistan's ``government will cooperate with India in exposing and apprehending the culprits and the masterminds behind'' the Mumbai terrorist attacks, according to a statement by the president's office, citing Zardari's phone conversation yesterday with Singh.

The attacks in Mumbai show a militant movement among Indian- born followers of Islam is aligning its campaign with those from majority-Muslim countries, while seeking to hit economic interests, B. Raman, the former counterterrorism director of India's intelligence agency, said in a telephone interview yesterday.

To contact the reporters on this story: Vipin V. Nair in Mumbai at vnair12@bloomberg.net; Stephen Foxwell in Mumbai at sfoxwell@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: November 29, 2008 02:13 EST


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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby darshan » 29 Nov 2008 12:36

Sumeet wrote:thanks darshan. I am holding my post to IBN.


sumeet, I could not find much. Currently, there are too many results from google pointing to current situation and Malegaon stuff. All I remember is reading these stuff during Gujarat episodes. CNN-IBN and NDTV have something out for Gujarat.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby milindc » 29 Nov 2008 12:37

2 terrorists stayed at Taj per News24.
Lot of local folks came to meet them and brought bags.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby lakshmikanth » 29 Nov 2008 12:38

Rahul M wrote:newsX reports: 36 grenades recovered from taj. terrorists used MP-5.
don't know if these are empty rumours.

Sadly there is another aspect too from the visual: behind the Taj the dead bodies taken out and there are a billion jingoes waiting outside. I dont know what soooo many people have to do out there. Can't they pick the bodies out from the morgue and leave the people who do the sanitation alone. Sometimes, I fail to understand the mentality of our desi guy maybe because I am a Non-Required Indian (NRI)

you think the security forces would allow that ?

this is not a normal mishap like train accidents where the Indian public is ALWAYS the first on the scene and take care of injured much before the govt forces even arrive at the scene.
do know about your countrymen before making comments like these.


Yes, I agree on normal mishap and I totally stand by my fellow jingoes as a first response force in that case.

But from Times Now report it almost appeared that there are sooo many people jam packed around that it almost impaired the functioning of the sanitizers.

TimesNow now reports that the army has removed everyone within 20 meters of the Taj and also removed people from the back.. so thats good news.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul M » 29 Nov 2008 12:40

milindc wrote:2 terrorists stayed at Taj per News24.
Lot of local folks came to meet them and brought bags.


some bengali TV channels reporting that one terrorist was at taj for 10 months working as a chef.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby A Arun » 29 Nov 2008 12:41

Really bad handling of post encounter operations by the authorities. DDM is all over the place, while they're still taking out the dead bodies.

Only news on NDTV's ticker for the past 15 mins: Karkare's wife refuses to take compensation from Modi.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Philip » 29 Nov 2008 12:42

The BBC has a massive blind spot when it comes to identifying Pakistan with terror.On the BBC last night,one of our former ambassadors was giving a vivid description of the actual words being used by Gen.Musharrat ,that "low intensity conflict with India would comtu=inue" and the words of the chief pig Hamid Gul,former head of the ISI,explaining that even though Musharrat was gone,his juniors in the military and ISI are all steeped in total hatred of India .His statement was ridiculed by a so-called expert who just said that ahmid Gul retorted so many years ago! So what? The same games are being played out at India's bloody expense.The Ministry of Information must get pro-active and condemn such reporting that protects Paki terror.We must identify such elements in the media that are supporting terror and banish them from India.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... india.html

Mumbai attacks: Well-trodden path from England to terror training camps in Pakistan
The path from Britain to the terror training camps of Pakistan is a well-trodden one, with dozens of young Muslim extremists from this country travelling abroad to learn their deadly trade.


PS:I think that BRites should bombard the BBC with e-mails condemning them for refusing to label Pak as the epicentre of terror when so much of evidence is available and now that British born pakis were some of the attackers..
Last edited by Philip on 29 Nov 2008 12:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Jay » 29 Nov 2008 12:49

TIMESNOW is covering the special forces who finished off the job in Taj and its such an humbling experience listening to them. I hope I have a DVR to record this and put it on youtube.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul Shukla » 29 Nov 2008 12:51

M. Vasvani was interviewing NSG commandos and one said with a smile, "Whenever you need us, we'll meet you every step of the way." Some other comments were;

"We just did only our duty. Thank you."

"Call us again when you need us."

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby milindc » 29 Nov 2008 12:52

Rahul M wrote:
milindc wrote:2 terrorists stayed at Taj per News24.
Lot of local folks came to meet them and brought bags.


some bengali TV channels reporting that one terrorist was at taj for 10 months working as a chef.


Some channel also reported that there was trainee for 10 months who was one of the terrorists. I posted that y'day

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby R_Kumar » 29 Nov 2008 12:52

Aditya_V wrote:The last time India-Pakistan were on the Brink of war, Godhra happened and it divided the country into 2.

No body has still answered why Godhra train burning happened and how the subsequent riots divided the country into 2. Surely, I dont think any Indian muslim would like to burn a coach with 80 people i it?

The way the BBC is harping on so called massecares of muslims in India. With the current mood so strong India CIA, MI5, MI6 and ISI might be trying anther such incident.

Is there anyway we can get the larger Indian public to be aware of this danger.


I don't think its going to happen this time. Agree that people are very angry, but in my opinion they are angry with central government not with innocent Indian Muslims. At least this is what I hope.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby suvod » 29 Nov 2008 12:54

NSG commandoes on Timesnow -
"we just did our duty"
"commando hai, karna padega"
"yeh muskan nahin hai, kuchh aur hai. haste rehna chahiye, moral down nahin hona chahiye"

Our nation's finest.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Raju » 29 Nov 2008 12:55

PS:I think that BRites should bombard the BBC with e-mails condemning them for refusing to label Pak as the epicentre of terror when so much of evidence is available and now that British born pakis were some of the attackers..


using only muslim or christian names please.
any name from sub-continent then they quickly put on their blinkers.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby trivedi » 29 Nov 2008 12:56

p_saggu wrote:Mumbaikar BRFites,
With your knowledge of the geography of Mumbai, We know that girlie boy landed at India gate then went on to CST, he was apprehended on his way out of CST on the road. I would like to know form you guys where these guys were headed? What would have been their likely destination???


girlie pig was ambushed and arrested near Chowpatty and very close to New Yorker. There is an entire row of restaurants opposite Chowpatty including a juice center where a lot of aam junta hangs out late at night. Chowpatty itself is crowded but probably not as much on a week day. Agree with previous poster that this was potentially their target. Additionally that is one of two main roads out of South Bombay and into Central and North Bombay.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Jayram » 29 Nov 2008 12:57

any url to the times now tv?
thanks

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Hiten » 29 Nov 2008 12:57

Jay wrote:I hope I have a DVR to record this and put it on youtube.


Please do it. It would be much appreciated. don't get Times Now at my place

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Dilbu » 29 Nov 2008 12:59

Jayram wrote:any url to the times now tv?
thanks

http://www.idesitv.com/starnews.php

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Sumeet » 29 Nov 2008 13:00

one should also remember the people burnt to death in that Sabarmati coach were VHP folks returning from Ayodhya. That is why VHP & Co got incensed & retaliated. They weren't common Indians [ Meaning those who have no organizational affiliation.]

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby sanjchopra » 29 Nov 2008 13:00

Attacks show radical agenda for India

Terrorism may have been backed by Pakistan or home-grown, writes Amir Taheri in Mumbai.

THE Army of Muhammad is back. This was the message buzzing in radical Islamist circles on Thursday as the world tried to absorb the shock of the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India's economic capital.

It is unclear which group was behind the attacks, but it looks as if the perpetrators were trying to imitate the tactic of ghazwa, used by the prophet against Meccan caravans in his decade-long campaign to seize control of the city. The tactic consists of surprise no-holds-barred attacks simultaneously launched against a caravan or settlement with the aim of demoralising the enemy and hastening his capitulation.

The Mumbai attacks differed from previous terrorism operations in India. In the past, one approach had been to place explosive devices in crowded places with the aim of killing many people at random. Another was suicide attacks on specific targets by lone "volunteers for martyrdom".

However, this time the approach was "symphonic", in the sense that it blended different types of operations. There were men who had placed explosives at selected points but there were also gunmen operating in classic military style by seizing control of territory - and hostages - at symbolically significant locations. Then there were militants prepared to kill, and be killed, in grenade attacks against security forces.

Whoever designed the operations had another important Islamic tactic in mind: tabarra, or exoneration. This consists of separating the "outsider", in this case the British and American "infidel", from the community with the intent of blaming them for the ills of the world before sacrificing them. It was no accident that one of the places attacked was a Jewish centre.

The loud message was that a small group of individuals could turn a megapolis of almost 15 million inhabitants into a battlefield.

Terrorism is a beast with an extraordinary ability to mutate. As soon as its victims have learnt to cope with its methods, it develops new ones. The intention is to terrorise the largest number of people.

New to India, the tactic of symphonic attacks has been tried in other countries in the past decade, notably Algeria, Iraq and Saudi Arabia, at times with devastating effects. Theoretically the tactic could be used in any city.

On Wednesday it was obvious that India's various anti-terrorism units were surprised and unable to cope.

So far the only claim of responsibility has come from a hitherto unknown group using the name the Deccan Mujahideen. This may be a cover for other groups, perhaps the Lashkar-e-Taiba (the Army of the Pure) and the Jaish Muhammad (the Army of Muhammad), terrorist organisations created by the Pakistani military intelligence services.

Earlier this year, in one of his last acts as Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf announced the dissolution of both, but it is possible that the two groups and their backers in the Pakistani military and intelligence elite have returned to the market under a new brand, with new tactics.

The attacks came 48 hours after Pakistan's new President, Asif Ali Zardari, practically threw away 50 years of Pakistani policy by announcing his readiness to end the dispute with India over Kashmir. Zardari is an ethnic Baluch who, unlike previous Pakistani leaders who had Indian backgrounds, has no direct family history in pre-partition India. As a result he is not as sensitive on Kashmir as his predecessors. The Mumbai attacks could be a message to Zardari that, although he may be uninterested in Kashmir, the issue is still central to many in Pakistan.

The new label used may also be significant. Deccan, a region in south-central India, was the intellectual and cultural capital of Indian Islam for centuries. By using the term Deccan Mujahideen the terrorists may be trying to pass two messages. First, that the Islamist movement is no longer interested only in Kashmir but intends to strive for the reconquest of the whole of India for Islam.

Second may be the intention to show that India now has a home-grown Islamist terrorist movement. This started to form more than a decade ago after Hindu nationalists won power in New Delhi through the Bharatiya Janata Party and its radical anti-Muslim allies. The Islamist terrorist movement has adopted what is known as the Matryoshka Method, after the Russian dolls nested one into another. The outer and biggest doll in this case is the Students' Islamic Movement of India, which claims millions of members. Indian authorities call that movement an antechamber of terrorism. Within it are nested other dolls in the form of cultural associations, charities and political lobby groups. The smallest and deadliest doll represents the kind of groups that may have been behind these attacks.

The need for a home-grown terrorism movement in India may have been further emphasised by the success of the US-led coalition in destroying virtually all Islamist training bases and havens in Afghanistan. With Pakistan also becoming inhospitable, partly thanks to Zardari's apparent determination to move his country close to both India and the US, Indian Islamists are forced to look for training centres and havens at home.

Many have mentioned al-Qaeda as the perpetrator of the latest attacks, but the connection is not easy to establish. Many experts believe al-Qaeda has ceased to exist as an organisation, although it survives as a model and inspiration. Al-Qaeda's No. 2, the Egyptian-born Ayman al-Zawahiri, has been calling on militants to refocus their efforts on winning power in Muslim countries such as India, which is home to 150 million Muslims, and thus one of the largest "Muslim" countries in the world.

This is in contrast with Osama bin Laden's theory that the US and its Western allies must be prime targets because, if they fall, the world system they dominate will disintegrate, opening the way for Islam's final triumph. It is possible that Zawahiri's writings influenced the Mumbai attackers. But it is unlikely that he and al-Qaeda had any direct role.

India is targeted for other reasons. Over the past five years it has emerged as the largest aid donor to Afghanistan and the second most important backer of President Hamid Karzai's regime after the US. The buzz in jihadist circles is that once the US and its allies have left, India will emerge as the principal foreign power behind the new democracy in Afghanistan.
India has also moved from its traditional anti-Americanism to a new policy of close friendship with the US. This year India signed a landmark nuclear co-operation agreement, paving the way for big purchases of US military hardware. Mumbai and India in general have been victims of terrorism before, although not in such a spectacular fashion. And yet they have managed to absorb the shock and move ahead. As always, the terrorists may end up like the man who, having won a great many tokens at the roulette table, is surprised when the casino tells him his winnings cannot be cashed.

Telegraph, London

Amir Taheri is author of Holy Terror: Inside The World Of Islamic Terrorism. His new book, The Persian Night, will be published next month.


Bharadwaj
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Bharadwaj » 29 Nov 2008 13:01

A Arun wrote:
Only news on NDTV's ticker for the past 15 mins: Karkare's wife refuses to take compensation from Modi.


I think she refused from all politicos.... but of course this is barkhatv....

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Aditya_V » 29 Nov 2008 13:01

R_Kumar wrote
Posts: 199 Aditya_V wrote:
The last time India-Pakistan were on the Brink of war, Godhra happened and it divided the country into 2.

No body has still answered why Godhra train burning happened and how the subsequent riots divided the country into 2. Surely, I dont think any Indian muslim would like to burn a coach with 80 people i it?

The way the BBC is harping on so called massecares of muslims in India. With the current mood so strong India CIA, MI5, MI6 and ISI might be trying anther such incident.

Is there anyway we can get the larger Indian public to be aware of this danger..


I don't think its going to happen this time. Agree that people are very angry, but in my opinion they are angry with central government not with innocent Indian Muslims. At least this is what I hope.




I am not talking about this attack but trying to stage an attack like Godra train where a so called muslim mob kills a few inncocent hindus which starts off communal riots.

The BBC yesterday was virtually praying for a communal incident to happen within this country to take the heat off thier Munna.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby p_saggu » 29 Nov 2008 13:03

Patni wrote: It seems that they might be trying to draw away police from the Taj and Trident or may be trying to get away and reach chowpaty beach in darkness and make a getaway in a dingy. Its also likely they might be heading towards airport to reach some other fivestar hotels! we can only speculate till more details emerge. If needed i can draw up a map with locations marked and maybe fellow members help build an accurate time lines for major events.

Patni,
Could you please make the map? with arrows to enlighten us.
It is possible that these people were going to a
1, safe house
2. extraction point - since they expected to walk out of this alive!
3. Going to some other high profile and unprotected target nearby - So I think that rules the airport out- heavily protected and only two scum.
Are there any big 5 star hotels nearby? Or the residences of High profile people?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Eshwar » 29 Nov 2008 13:05

Bharadwaj wrote:
A Arun wrote:
Only news on NDTV's ticker for the past 15 mins: Karkare's wife refuses to take compensation from Modi.


I think she refused from all politicos.... but of course this is barkhatv....


In any case, I think Modi showed a lack of discretion here, for the first time, from my limited knowledge. He should have waited until the mil ops were over. He might have lost some political stock here in the market of urban voters.
Last edited by Eshwar on 29 Nov 2008 13:08, edited 1 time in total.

trivedi
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby trivedi » 29 Nov 2008 13:08

MohanG wrote:What is this ? Any other collaboration ?
'Armed police would not fire back. – I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera'




Yes, we need to arm our police better.

Yes, we need to train them to handle such crises better.

Still, these men should have retaliated. A single bullet from any of these men could have saved scores of lives.

R_Kumar
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby R_Kumar » 29 Nov 2008 13:09

I also think Modi should have waited. And there was no need for anyone including PM, rajmata and Advani to visit Mumbai while fight was still going on. These are all common sense I guess.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby JimmyJ » 29 Nov 2008 13:11

Aditya_V wrote:R_Kumar wrote
I am not talking about this attack but trying to stage an attack like Godra train where a so called muslim mob kills a few inncocent hindus which starts off communal riots.

The BBC yesterday was virtually praying for a communal incident to happen within this country to take the heat off thier Munna.


And I think that is the one big reason to tell that the terrorist have failed in their ultimate aim. Rather than dividing the people of India, this one incident has brought many a people together, with each and every people joining their hands together. It proves one important point that even when when there is lot of differences, any danger against the Nation will be dealt with unity.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby trivedi » 29 Nov 2008 13:12

p_saggu wrote:
Patni wrote:1, safe house
2. extraction point - since they expected to walk out of this alive!
3. Going to some other high profile and unprotected target nearby - So I think that rules the airport out- heavily protected and only two scum.
Are there any big 5 star hotels nearby? Or the residences of High profile people?


A safe house is possible but unlikely to be in South Mumbai where residential properties are really costly and they would stand out like sore thumbs with police looking for them.

An extraction point is only possible by sea.

High profile and unprotected target nearby seems more likely. Lots of restaurants in that area and there are other high profile hotels like ITC Maratha in Central bombay.

From what I understand 3 other pigs were already headed to the airport in a taxi when they mishandled one of their grenades or something and blew up.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby suvod » 29 Nov 2008 13:15

in fact the mah cm advised mms and sonia against visiting the actual sites, and they restricted themselves to the hospitals. For Modi to go to the battlefield and issue statements against the current ruling dispensatio was uncalled for. All the politics can wait. We, as a nation, need to formulate a united response now. I'm no supporter of Congress/UPA, but that should not turn me into such an idiot that I start praying that this govt fails to respond effectively! We simply can't afford it.


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