Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul M » 30 Nov 2008 09:58

Raju wrote:
Rahul M wrote:not a fetish, just a system of acceptable filters so that anybody can't just come in, say anything and subvert the whole idea of BRF.


ok. So this 'anybody' will not pester this venerable 'media-approved' thread anymore.
thanks for conveying to me that media is the hero.
And I am a zero.

Raju ji, that was a generic statement, don't look too much into it.

this 'report' was not from you was it ? that would probably have been treated a little differently.
regards.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby arun » 30 Nov 2008 10:02

X Post :

India has tell-tale evidence of Pak connection, say agencies

30 Nov 2008, 0000 hrs IST, TNN

NEW DELHI: Pakistan's foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi on Saturday promised to help India unearth the hand behind the Mumbai attack. Well, he will not have to work hard. For, Indian agencies have managed to lay their hands on evidence which has ripped apart Islamabad's perennial denial about the involvement of Pakistan's quasi-state actor in the terror campaign against India.

Sources said a satellite phone recovered from one of the rafts that the 10 jihadi desperados used to enter Mumbai on that fateful Wednesday night has yielded tell-tale evidence of the direct involvement of top hierarchy of ISI-backed Lashkar-e-Toiba in the Mumbai mayhem.

The satellite phone records show that the gang remained in touch with Muzammil alias Yusuf who is in-charge of Lashkar's anti-India operations. More crucially, Ajmal has told his ATS interrogators about the direct interest that Zakiur Rahman, a top-ranking jihadi and one of the founding members of Lashkar, took in the anti-Mumbai plot.

Sources said information harvested from the satellite phone, the GPS device that the jihadis used to navigate their way to Mumbai and the detailed account of Ajmal, the gang member in custody, add up to a solid body of evidence of Lashkar's direct complicity.

The Lashkar leadership was directly involved at each step of the plot -- from organising a safe house for the gang in Karachi's Azizabad locality before they set out on the deadly mission to arranging the Pakistani vessel Al Hussaini with arms and ammunition on which they travelled.

The details also appear to have formed the basis for Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to forcefully speak about the Pakistani connection to the ghastly crime. Talking to media in Islamabad on Saturday, the Pakistani FM confirmed that India, in a clear reference to Singh's conversation with Pakistani PM Yusuf Raza Gilani on Friday, had spoken of the involvement of Pakistan-based organisations in the savagery.

Top government sources described the evidence as "clinching". "It is so convincing that Pakistan can refuse to take action against Lashkar only at the cost of the admission that it has lost control over its territory, or the confirmation of the charge that it connives with terrorists operating from its soil," they said.

The satellite phone was a fortuitous find for the investigating agencies. According to Ajmal, Muzammil had instructed the gang members to destroy the equipment before entering Mumbai. Fortunately for India, the jihadis forgot to carry out the brief, leaving crucial information for the investigators.

The GPS device, so programmed as to help the Lashkar operatives chart their way to India and back, is another evidence.

Muzammil is a notorious `India hand', having scripted the attack on the CRPF camp in Rampur in UP on January 1 this year. The subsequent arrests of Lashkar operatives, Fahim Ansari and others, also brought out Lashkar's resolve to target Mumbai almost a year before the jihadis actually struck. Fahim had told his interrogators from UP Special Task Force and, later, Hemant Karkare, the former chief of Mumbai ATS, that Lashkar was plotting to target important landmarks like Gateway of India, Stock Exchange and Hotel Centaur.

It is, however, rare for Zakiur Rahman, a veteran jihadi who is fondly called ‘chachu’ by the gang, to get into the frame himself. That he made an exception to get in touch with the jihadis he despatched to Mumbai speaks of the importance that Lashkar gave to the operation.

Ajmal had told interrogators that he and his accomplices were put up in a house in Karachi's Azizabad locality for a while before being asked to board a mid-sized vessel from Kajhar Creek. They travelled 20-25 km southwest before they were picked up by a group of Pakistanis on board a ship plying under the registration of Al Hussaini. The terrorists later switched to Kuber, an Indian trawler they commandeered after killing three of the occupants.

The skipper of the trawler was also killed a day later as a prelude to the indiscriminate killing spree they began, leaving explosives in the taxis they took and which went off after they had got off. They also forced employees of Taj and Trident hotels to act as their guides by killing their colleagues in front of them.

Times Of India

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Jagan » 30 Nov 2008 10:06

Image

Image

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Manny » 30 Nov 2008 10:09

parsuram wrote:You know, on further thought, I do believe the best response has got to be in Kashmir. Send in sharp shooters with target lists. Start taking out blatently pro paki and known terrorist sympathizers at a fast clip. It has great utility, and complete deniability. GOI can even dispatch high level investigative teams. But start taking out paki backing kasmiris. Few hundred and LeT will get the message. Few thousand, and they will back off. This is easy. Safe. Great for security. Like I said, low hanging fruit. Let us go get it. kasmiri pigs-en-Fruit salad? chutney? achaar anyone?


Thats the best suggestion I have heard so far.

Remember..during Kargil..when those Pigs were Bar-B-Qued...all they could do was...stand over the fence and watch.

We need to do the same.. Just take out any pro Paki Terrorist sympahtizing Kashmir terrorist. This is the time!

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby neelkamal » 30 Nov 2008 10:09

jmaxwell wrote:
arunabh wrote:i think the agnis and prithvis that we have would keep pak and china away from carrying out full fledged wars.
you are kidding right?

never did i envision a day where a speech from Bush would sweep me off my feet. His words on Indian resilience were more reassuring than anything the entire babudom has said so far.


Is it possible to get a video clipping or text of Bush's speech ?

We did not have any power in Chennai for the last 2 days what with torrential rains n all. Did not get to watch Prime Minister's address to the nation also.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Vikas » 30 Nov 2008 10:12

Nayak wrote:Vikas, Dutta specifically told that they did not want to go guns-blazing in every room.

The pigs were not isolated and cornered because of the hostage.

Please do not second-guess the NSG ops, a ferverent appeal to all BR members.


Nayak, My point is not about this specific ops but in general about any activity that defense forces undertake.If it is firing on the border, we maintain restraint, if NLI occupy Kargil heights, we use restraint,If Beedees kill Indian Soldiers we hide behind this fake facade of restraint.
Sometimes I feel as if the ruling class in this country os more interested in scoring brownie points about how we followed some Gandhian principal and kept getting kicked in the guts rather than to standup and give it back.

The other point want to make is about She-vraj "how does my hair look today" Patil and demand for his resignation. I want Ms. Sonia Gandhi to keep the two idiots up there so that we can see the moral bankruptcy of this Govt.
Let people like me see what happens when they don't vote.What happens when they think economy is more important than national security.
What happens when they think that root cause of all terrorism in India is Muslim anger flowing out of Gujrat riots and sense of deprivation.
What happens when they accept their fate assigning it to some karmic justice.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby lakshmikanth » 30 Nov 2008 10:12

Jagan wrote:Image

Image


So the first was the porky who fell out of the window after getting fried.

Point #1 :- from a hostage(escaped) : They (terrorists) were fighting for food.
Point #2 :- from NSG: They(terrorists )threw grenades at each other causing a fire. (either as a result of #1 OR suicide)

I am just wondering what went on in their brains before they got fried... something went horribly away from what was planned. Hope Girly-Piglet squeals what went wrong!
Last edited by lakshmikanth on 30 Nov 2008 10:22, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby neelkamal » 30 Nov 2008 10:16

I got it on youtube
bush's statement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mIXInTtYpA

it is a very nice speech. The world's largest democacy can look for the world's oldest democracy to stand by its side.

beautiful.
Last edited by neelkamal on 30 Nov 2008 10:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby sum » 30 Nov 2008 10:18

Regarding the unaccounted for turds, i still feel that either the GoI has some hints about where they are(of course, hasnt revealed them) and has started a mother-of-all manhunts(lots of midnight knocks) in Mumbai or they have the few others in custody and are not letting it out to spread panic and confusion in the Handlers/local support's minds...

Of course, the third and scary possibility is they are as clueless as us about the remaining!!! :eek:

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby asprinzl » 30 Nov 2008 10:21

OK, i have been reading the last five pages and realize the gist of feelings on here. How should India respond is the question of the day. And how should India respond?

Some have suggested a naval blockade of Pak-is-satan. Lets see. A successful naval blockade of Pak-is-satan must involve blocking the seaborne traffic to and from Pakistani ports both big and small. Indian naval assets would be patroling close to Pakistani ports to suficiently enforce the blockade but far enough to be outside the range of coastal guns and rockets and sufficiently far enough to have ample warning and reaction time in case of a potential Pak-is-satani naval submarines or surface response or response from their air assets. Remember that Satan has American Harpoon IIs and F-16s at their disposal. Last year alone the bought five billion dollars worth of American weapons.

To counter this threat and maintain the blockade, India needs dedicated maritime surveillance assets that can maintain a continous round the clock watch. And India needs powerful Naval air-wing. How many Harriers are there aboard the Viraat? Can the Viraat be put to the oceanic patrol for prolong period?

India’s naval assets also need surface to air defense capabilities. Last I heard that certain projects are stalled with “corruption investigations”.

If India’s naval assets are not enough, then the Indian Air Force must be brought in to augment any holes in the blockade strategy. Oh yes then there is the MRCA project that the IAF wanted way back in 2001. Where are we now in 2008? There was then the RFI. I guess it must progress gradually from RFI to SFI to TFI and eventually to ZFI before the planes touch down on Indian soil.

Op Parakaram even back then was a non-starter. It would have been a mission where the best and the bravest of India march into a meat grinder by the thousands. The Government then probably thought they could cow the Satani government into making concessions without the need to get into actual combat. Part of it happened but not much. So, from my perspective, a similar exercise is unimaginable, costly, low return and unwise.

The only way I see where India can walk away with her head high is a massive air campaign striking all military targets without giving the enemy any minute of sleep and any chance to strike back by taking out his missiles/missile bases, missile fuel storages, air bases and air assets ets. The enemy would not be allowed a single chance to get even one of his plane to the sky and have even a single missile up. For that India needs massive numbers of air assets from AWACS to refuelers to bombers to fighters that would cover the entire Satani landscape round the clock and taking out every fighter plane and every missile making him unable to fire a single missile or airlifting a single bomb nuke or conventional. While at the same time deploy enough assets on the Chinese front to maintain credible deterent. Ooops….my bad. While the airforce wanted 42 squardrons the airpower is now operating at what….32.5 squardrons? With a bulk of them MiG-21s?

So, what can be done now? Similar tactics like that of the Mumbai gunmen. Infiltrate better trained and better armed men into the Islamabad and cause much bigger mayhem by ISI Hq, flattening the terror training centers, economic centers etc. And leave behind a dud bomb at the entrance of the PA GHQ just to let the chor commander in charge that he too could have turned into pasta but not yet lest he behaves.

Look, Pakibans have already done part of the favor by near flattening the Mariott. Time to wake up the Balochi, Gilgiti, Pashtoon, Sindhi, Shia, Ahmadi and Kadiani sleeper cells to cause mayhem. Well, if there are such cells?

Time to play not dirty but dirtier.
Avram

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Vikas » 30 Nov 2008 10:22

Why is everyone in GOI trying to establish Paki connection to this carnage.I mean so what if Paki connection is established.
As if The greatest and the mightiest leader sitting on the PM chair will stop talking to 10-feesadi or Al-Gropi. One more feeble bumbliing & fumbling statement and request to USA to do something about it.
So what if we get the 20 terrorists on LKA list. Most likely few of them will end up fighting elections from Azamgarh on Samajwadi party's tickets with support from Mr. Bachchan.
What have we really done with the terrorists who are already in jail. Its good that leading class actually has an excuse of not taking any action against those 20 listed piglets.
I am sure the leaders in Delhi would have preferred Afzal to be Pakistan than to be in India least they are forced to take action and lose votes in the process.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby birju » 30 Nov 2008 10:23

How feasible is it to conduct naval and air attacks on Bangladesh to disable the camps there? Perhaps even liberate the CHT? This will be deserved action with no real consequences.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Jagan » 30 Nov 2008 10:27

Raju wrote:Why are we allowing 'media' to exert undue influence over our lives or the spread of truth ?

Why do we no more trust in the human narrative ?


Seriously - you quoted something you read on some forum - without mentioning what forum it is, who the poster was, and what your relationship with that poster is, you post that information here and expect us to believe that bit of news straight away?

As Rahul said, hearsay has no place on BRF. Now if you heard it from a reliable source, you have to state the source before you post information that borders on conspiracy theories.

If that is not acceptable then do not post.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Jagan » 30 Nov 2008 10:29

The second dead terrorist photo is said to be from Nariman house.

One of the NSG interviews has a contradictory view of how the last of them died at the Taj. Its not the 'throw grenades at each other' story, but more like smoke em out and shoot them out of the windows tale.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby darshan » 30 Nov 2008 10:33

Since, when does a billion plus democracy need to provide proof of something it believes in?
If Indians say that it is pakistan then without any doubt it is pakistan and even UN cannot question that because Indian population outnumbers all the P5 democracies' population combined.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Patni » 30 Nov 2008 10:34

Have The Google Map "Trail of Terror by Pakistani Terrorists In Mumbai" Updated with location of two taxi blasts and as accurate a timing as i can construct myself from available web sources. I am thinking that the taxis when blew up were being used by innocent Mumbai citizens (Confirmed in case of Mazgoan blast).

http://in.news.yahoo.com/32/20081129/1055/tnl-mazgaon-residents-struggle-to-wipe-o.html

Does anyone has any idea if the unfortunate occupants of taxi that blew up near domestic airport has been identified?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Anabhaya » 30 Nov 2008 10:38

Neither the Prime Minister or any cabinet have come out with any statements or reactions whatsoever after the operations were over. After a 'high level' chai-biskoot session with heads of security agencies the PM sipped chai and ate biskoot with Madame at the Congress Working Committee. An all party chai-biskoot session has been called for today. I think guvarmand does not work on sundays so safely expect a CCS chai-biskoot on monday. Few phases of polls yet to be conducted in JK - so don't count on an armed response. US SecState has already made calls to Pranab.

The Paks are playing it to the hilt. No mobilization on Indian side yet you see many reports of 'red alert' etc in Pak media with briefings to select journalists about why they will have to move 1,00,000 TFTA men to Indian borders.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby asprinzl » 30 Nov 2008 10:41

I am disappointed in the fact the the India security agencies let out that they have one terrorist captured alive. War is deception. They should have kept that info quiet and bilk out every last bit of info without alerting whatever cells are out there. Dead terrorists dont talk. Their handlers would rest easier if all the terrorist were dead for no intel could be bilked out of them that may implicate the handlers and local guides and scouts. Now that they are aware of one caught alive, all the baddies would be trying to evade much faster and farther. Bad move.
Avram

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul Shukla » 30 Nov 2008 10:47

India should have struck Pakistan at sea. GOI should have given the go-ahead to Indian Navy to: sink 3 fishing trawlers, 2 CG boats, and confiscate a large maritime vessel under the pretext of hot pursuit of suspected vessels and terrorists. Finally, a small fishing trawler should have been sunk smack in the middle of Karachi harbor.

Then the Indian FM should have threatened the Pakistani side with a 'cold-start' scenario if they escalate. Pakis should also have been told that they will pay for Indian blood on their wester frontier with compounded interest. A military confrontation at sea without a corresponding Parakaram style military deployment on LOC/IB would have given the Indian leadership the opportunity to deliver a stinging jhapad with sufficient room de-escalatory maneuvers.

But all that should have been done 2 days ago. Now it is too late.

Indians should have announced military training for the Afghan army and Air-Force, doubling of Afghan reconstruction aid, and construction of 3 new consulates within 100 km of the Durand line. Then, a tanker full of ammonium-nitrate should have blown up in front of ISI HQ on a busy monday morning. Like it or not, but India has to stand down Pakistan in an explicit military confrontation for these types of attacks to stop.

In essence, I am proposing a fake military conflict at sea to make a much needed point but the real pain is delivered using covert warfare. But all this takes b@lls, which the current GOI does not have.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby samuel.chandra » 30 Nov 2008 10:48

In his usual style. Spoke from the heart. Somehow the guy comes out as original than any other politician you listen to.

neelkamal wrote:I got it on youtube
bush's statement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mIXInTtYpA

it is a very nice speech. The world's largest democacy can look for the world's oldest democracy to stand by its side.

beautiful.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby anishns » 30 Nov 2008 10:49

heard in the background after the speech some stupid reporter @2:47 "Haj India asked phaar any help saar!" and was completely ignored! :roll:

No Israel No Unkil will help us
We need to fight our own wars
Until then wait for the next one!

neelkamal wrote:I got it on youtube
bush's statement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mIXInTtYpA

it is a very nice speech. The world's largest democacy can look for the world's oldest democracy to stand by its side.

beautiful.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul M » 30 Nov 2008 10:49

neelkamal wrote:............ Did not get to watch Prime Minister's address to the nation also.

saved you some BP medication and a visit to the Doc.
lucky you.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul Shukla » 30 Nov 2008 10:52

-
Last edited by Rahul Shukla on 30 Nov 2008 10:54, edited 2 times in total.

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Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby skumar » 30 Nov 2008 10:53

Our problem is that our bark is worse than our bite and the world, including the Pakistanis, knows it; all our dogs have started / will start barking now.

In the media, I see this being portrayed primarily as a cause of intelligence failure. However, this does not make sense. Even if we have the best intelligence mechanisms in the world, can we say that you keep coming at us and we will keep fending you off?

When will we have the courage to face the truth?
Last edited by skumar on 30 Nov 2008 10:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul Shukla » 30 Nov 2008 10:54

And Israel should have been requested to send over 6 F-15's and 6 F-16's for 'exercise' with an explicit promise not to use these assets in an overt military confrontation. The Israelis would have been happy to oblige given their casualties - if - they really believed GOI has the crown jewels it takes to really follow through with their plan.

Paki chain-of-command will die of dehydration just p*ssing in their salwars and trembling...

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Patni » 30 Nov 2008 10:54

Found details about the taxi blast near airport.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cops_clueless_about_Vile_Parle_taxi_blast/articleshow/3766754.cms

MUMBAI: Witnesses and police officials did not know whether to make a criminal or a martyr out of the mangled body, which lay at the Cooper Hospital morgue and was what remained of the driver of a taxi that exploded on Western Express Highway on Wednesday night.

The cab, which exploded not very far from the airport, claimed the lives of two - the cab driver and a passenger - and left two others injured.

The clues that the cops could have found handy were lost in the blast; parts of the taxi landed almost 300 metres away after the blast and the licence plate and the registration number were lost forever.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby lakshmikanth » 30 Nov 2008 10:58

asprinzl wrote:I am disappointed in the fact the the India security agencies let out that they have one terrorist captured alive. War is deception. They should have kept that info quiet and bilk out every last bit of info without alerting whatever cells are out there. Dead terrorists dont talk. Their handlers would rest easier if all the terrorist were dead for no intel could be bilked out of them that may implicate the handlers and local guides and scouts. Now that they are aware of one caught alive, all the baddies would be trying to evade much faster and farther. Bad move.
Avram


Agreed. This would not have happened if there was a central co-ordination authority controlling the whole thing... While I am completely in support of commando ops and how it was handled by IA, I believe that inter-force co-ordination could have made sure that this kind of stuff does not leak out!

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby George J » 30 Nov 2008 11:00

For those interested in time lines, here is an update. It seems the folks Mumbai control room requested for the Marcos BEFORE Mr. Karkare et al. met their demise. Adm. Bedi and Cheema (?) responded VERY promptly and positively. The only problem was that the Marcos were very few in number. This was compounded by the fact that they got split between Oberoi and Taj.

There is some very informed opinion that the al-keedas may have done their homework but they were not counting on such a specialized team being available to Mumbai at such short notice. They assumed that like Akshardham the NSG would take a couple of hours to arrive but they did not account for the Marcos. The Marcos upset their applecart and long term plans.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Vivek Sreenivasan » 30 Nov 2008 11:01

Hey guys this is my analysis of the situation with regards to terrorism in India. It not pretty but i am forced to come to these conclusions.

Basically if you want the short story India is going to be as vulnerable to terrorist attacks for the next 5 to 10 years as it has been so far in 2008. How have i come to this grim conclusion?
Well read my arguments below.

1) The security apparatus in India is going to have to be MASSIVELY revamped. Just to give an indication of the things that need to be done. Setting up of a effective coastal intrediction process, this is going to require more coastguard vessels and people to be trained to handle those vessels.

2) Revamp Mumbai police, equip them with modern firearms and train them to stay aleart and focused. The time when they can enjoy chai while on duty and read newspapers has long passed.

3) Revamp RAW, obviously RAW is not as effective as it should be otherwise all these terrorist attacks originating out of Pakistan would not take place. This will require new recruits and training.

4) Set up a federal agency that has the jursidiction in National and international crimes like terrorism. Obvioulsy this is going again to require a lot of time to set up training and recruiting as well as setting up facilities.

5) Re-distribute the anti-terror fighting forces to the major-metropolises and set up facilities from which they can maintain 24/7 coverage of the city. Effective coordination with the police will also have to be set up. Again this will take time. You will have to build the facilities to house these anti-terror forces and other logistics etc.

The above are five things that need to be done ASAP. But how long will it actually take? Given India's burdensome beureaucracy. I estimate a period of at a minimumum of 5 to a maximum of 10 years. So my grim analysis is that for the next 5 years at least were going to see Mumbai like attacks with depressing regularity. I dont like this analysis but i am forced to come to it.
Last edited by Vivek Sreenivasan on 30 Nov 2008 11:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Vivek Sreenivasan » 30 Nov 2008 11:03

Let me just go through a list of failures that occurred to allow this terrorist attack to first of all take place and secondly to be as devastating as it has been.

1) Intelligence failure-no need to explain apart from saying it was both domestic and international. The terrorists spent considerable period of time in Mumbai before attacks.

2) Coastal security failure.

3) Lassize faire attitude by police- one of the civillians informed the police when the terrorists LANDED that they were suspicious but no action taken.

4) Again Police failure- Reported at the CST terminal that mumbai police took no action even when they were armed with firearms. Honestly this would be funny if it aint so tragic. The police were armed with obsolete .303 rifles that probably wern't even loaded. Even if they were they probably hadn't fired a round in their life and lacked confidence in using them.

5) ATS failure- Remember guys this is supposed to be our ANTI-TERRORIST TASKFORCEagain they were armed with some bloddy obsolete weapons and just went straight in without first sussing out the situation. They got what was coming, 3 top officers killed as well as other police.

6) Bloddy slow response time- it took the NSG 9.30 hours to get to the scene. Link Below. I dont think i need to say more. If they had got there withing half hour many dozens of lives would have been saved.

hours.http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Why_ ... 775003.cms


So as you can see 6 things went wrong that fateful night if anyone of them had gone right these terrorist attacks might have been prevented or at least contained. It actually requires multiple failures of the security apparatus for the terroists to break through. Out apparatus miserably failed. Im not tarnishing the reputation of the NSG, once they finally got on the scene they did a splendid job.
Last edited by Vivek Sreenivasan on 30 Nov 2008 11:04, edited 1 time in total.

Rahul Shukla
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul Shukla » 30 Nov 2008 11:04

asprinzl wrote:I am disappointed in the fact the the India security agencies let out that they have one terrorist captured alive. War is deception. They should have kept that info quiet and bilk out every last bit of info without alerting whatever cells are out there. Dead terrorists dont talk. Their handlers would rest easier if all the terrorist were dead for no intel could be bilked out of them that may implicate the handlers and local guides and scouts. Now that they are aware of one caught alive, all the baddies would be trying to evade much faster and farther. Bad move.

Not really.

Per rules of such operations, all supporting arrangements would have been temporary and migratory in nature. The handlers would have disappeared before the operation even got started. What is going on now is a chase... the handlers are already gone.

The terrorist captured alive is 'evidence' - especially genetic - which the ISI can neither deny nor fake. I am sure that more than 1 terrorist was captured alive and GOI is being very smart by keeping it a secret.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby amar_ » 30 Nov 2008 11:10

I have been a passive lurker in BR for a few years and the attacks in Mumbai and the anguish of a mother who lost her sons made me write this. I am sure every one of us feel the pain and our blood boils when such things happen. Terrorists strike regularly and we Indians have accepted it as a part of life. I am ashamed to see that our own politicians give statements like it is a "choti si baat". Anyway, I will stop whining about the politicians and wish to know a few things from the members who have more knowledge about the topics I point out -
1) If India stops all water supply to pakistan with the condition that the supply will be resumed after they hand over a complete list of mo fus (including dawood) to India, do we have enough channels within India to take care of the excessive water? If yes, why cant the govt do it? what can we do to push the govt in that direction?
2) If pakis rant about going to international court saying that we have to compensate for the loss incurred due to non availability of water, can we counter it with the loss caused due to the terrorist attacks?
3) Do we have to even honour the water treaty when there is a proxy war? Under what conditions can we shove the treaty up someone's musharraf?

I am not talking about war as I do not feel that it is going to solve the problem. If the solution is to nuke those ********, I wish the govt of India gets rid of the chakkas who say that this is "a choti si baat" and go for it.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul Shukla » 30 Nov 2008 11:12

Suspending IWT is not a good idea except in case of an all-out war. Other means of delivering pain must be employed and are available.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rupesh » 30 Nov 2008 11:15

Shivraj Patil may quit before all-party meet: Sources

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Shivraj_Patil_may_quit_before_all-party_meet_Sources/articleshow/3775429.cms?TOI_latestnews

thats bad news..let him stay for some more time and dig kangress grave..

As usual nothings going to come out of All party meet..a few more barks thats all..

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Vivek Sreenivasan » 30 Nov 2008 11:15

What can individual Brfites who live in India do? A couple of things, firstly they should lobby/send letters/communicate with officials to ensure that adequate action is taken. Basically they can form a pressure group on national and internal security.

Secondly they should arm themselves. A simple 6 shot revolver locked away in the glove box of your car is sufficient. India is a dangerous place, citizens shoud be armed. Nothing fancy is required. A simple revolver like the one below is sufficient.

Click on Link.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/Sm ... _large.jpg

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rupesh » 30 Nov 2008 11:18

Pak may relocate 100,000 armymen to border


KARACHI: Pakistan may relocate around 100,000 military personnel from its restive border area with Afghanistan if there is an escalation in tension
with India, which has hinted at the involvement of Pakistani elements in the Mumbai carnage, a media report said on Sunday.

A private channel reported that Pakistan's military and intelligence sources told a select group of journalists on Sunday that NATO and American command had been told that Islamabad would be forced to relocate its military from the borders with Afghanistan if there is escalation in tension with India, where nearly 200 people were killed in the multiple terror attacks on the Indian financial capital.

"These sources have said NATO and the US command have been told that Pakistan would not be able to concentrate on the war on terror and against militants around the Afghanistan border as defending its borders with India was far more important," Geo News quoted senior Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir as saying.

He also said the sources had briefed the media that the decision not to send the ISI chief Lt Gen Shuja Pasha to India was taken after Indian foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee used a very aggressive tone with Pakistani officials on telephone after the Mumbai attacks.

"The decision to not send the ISI DG to India was taken because Mukherjee used strong words with Pakistani officials and warned of consequences," Mir quoted the military sources as saying.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Pak_may_relocate_100000_armymen_to_Indian_border/articleshow/3775552.cms

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Vivek Sreenivasan » 30 Nov 2008 11:19

What do you guys think of my analysis above does it make sense?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby jmaxwell » 30 Nov 2008 11:20

i concur with amar_

i think the whole free kashmir thing has nothing to do with the mooji brotherhood. it has to do with control of the rivers. if india decides to dam and redivert the river flow; porkis get royally screwed. on the other hand i gauarantee that if j&k goes to pakistan; whats left of east punjab will be a barren desert.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Vivek Sreenivasan » 30 Nov 2008 11:23

Guys if we stop water to Pakistan it is going to result in a war- and an extended war will no doubt lead to a nuclear war. Just pointing out the ramifications. So basically insted of stopping water we might as well nuke them because thats what its going to lead to.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Postby Rahul Shukla » 30 Nov 2008 11:25

...insted of stopping water we might as well nuke them...


Vivek,

You're in Australia right? Just confirming.

I hope you get my what I am trying to say. Proposing nuclear war is a piece-of-cake sitting >8,000 miles away from the blast zone.
Last edited by Rahul Shukla on 30 Nov 2008 11:28, edited 1 time in total.


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