Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2008 19:50

8 to 9 spots at the same time should have at least 2 terrorists for a spot. calculate yourself.

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 02 Dec 2008 19:58

SaiK wrote:8 to 9 spots at the same time should have at least 2 terrorists for a spot. calculate yourself.

Its not at the same time.. create a time line and do the calculation again. you can walk /move from place to place.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 02 Dec 2008 20:04

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Post ... 784746.cms

China quizzes Pakistan over Mumbai attack
2 Dec 2008, 1700 hrs IST, Saibal Dasgupta, TNN

Security agencies in China are quizzing their Pakistani counterparts about possible links between the attack in Mumbai and terrorist organisations based in Pakistan, informed sources said.

Chinese agencies have already taken measures to seal off possible loopholes in the country's borders with India, Pakistan and Afghanistan to ensure that no fugitives sneak in. Beijing is particularly worried that Pakistan based terrorists might seek refuge Xinjiang, the terrorism hit province bordering Pakistan.

"We are ready to cooperate with India and Pakistan to fight terrorists groups that are active in the region," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao told TOI. "We face the danger of terrorists' attacks from supporters of the East Turkmenistan movement. So, we are very concerned," he said.

China, which is a close allay of Pakistan, is capable of persuading leaders in Islamabad to part with critical intelligence and even hand over terrorists to India. But Beijing might prefer to deal with Pakistani leaders on this score to safeguard itself from terrorism spilling across the border to its own territory.

Liu, the foreign ministry spokesman, said China was ready to join hands with India to track down terrorists groups that may have been involved in the attack in Mumbai on November 26. The event demonstrated that India, Pakistan and Afghanistan continue to be serious targets of terrorists. Chinese security agencies were closely studying the incident to examine the role of terrorists in the region, he said.

"We have an arrangement with Pakistan on working jointly to combat terrorism," Liu said and added that the arrangement is working well.

But an anti-terrorism expert of the Chinese government feels that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was pointing a finger at Pakistan to "cover up" what he described as the "flaws and shortcomings" of the Indian government. The terrorists in Mumbai attack may have come from within India's border, Li Wei, director of anti-terrorist studies of China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations told the official media.

China's public security bureau recently indicated that most of the ultras active in the country's Xinjiang region have been trained and backed by Pakistan based terrorist organisations. Beijing is worried that the close linkages between different terrorists groups and possible links with the al-Qaida could escalate the already volatile law and order situation on the China-Pakistan border, sources said.

Li, who works for the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, said that the Mumbai attack will have profound influence on other nations in Asia. It is also a signal that existing measures on issues like early warning system and risk evaluation are not sufficient to be prepared for such brazen attacks, he said.

The remarks from the Chinese foreign ministry comes in the wake of reports that the Pakistani military brass has threatened to pull out troops from the Afghanistan border and thus bring an end to the US-led war on terror if there is any military action from the Indian side over the Mumbai attack.

Pakistan has for long managed to keep both US and China on tenterhooks by using threats of easing its military pressure on the Afghanistan border and weakening its surveillance of Afghanistan based terrorists groups including Al Qaida activists, informed sources said.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 02 Dec 2008 20:07

What I get up in the morning and sing

It's a good feeling
Such a happy feeling

It's such a good feeling to know you're alive.
It's such a happy feeling
You're growing inside.
And when you wake up ready to say
I think I'll make a snappy new day
It's such a good feeling,
A very good feeling,
The feeling you know that we're friends.

We still have threads about Mumbai attacks,

as a resilient nation we are back at what we are good at....chalta Hai

Forget NSA, NSG, SG, MMS, National Dignity,Unity, Pride, Purpose, Stance,Legacy, precedents and future
wait for the next attack and then again go back to quick filling threads...

The life cycle of a nation and its leaders.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 02 Dec 2008 20:09

Another thing being misreported in DDM. GPS navigation at sea. This is something a grade 5 student can do. All you need is a chart and a GPS device. On the chart plot your present position as given by the GPS (Long/ Lat). Draw a point you'd like to go to. 10 miles off Mumbai harbour. Draw a straight line. Look at the chart for what course is required. Point to that course and carry on. Every hour check if you're on that course. If not correct it by knowing what your present position is and plotting a straightline to the destination point. No skills of any special level required. For any person here it will take no more than 5 minutes to learn how to navigate a ship. Obviously on the chart you have wrecks or shallow mounds pointed out. So just avoid them.

Pointing this out, because this is being reported in quite a bit of media.

Not that easy sir. One need to know how to interpret tide-charts at given time.....otherwise get stuck in mud.Not that easy to navigate ship. Going to get my Yachtsman License soon. GPS shows you current postition. You need to compensate the drift and you have to calculate this. Modern Yachts have computer that does this which guide autopilot............not sure they have this on simple Indian fishing boats. It seems they had no radio on board even.......otherwise it does not take long to send SOS signal.

Shivani · Post by **Shivani** » 02 Dec 2008 20:10

nsa_tanay wrote:Why Salaskar,Kamte, Karkare Died?

Every single bullet went through the jackets

Not surprising. The jackets worn by Indian soldiers and policemen looks like a cheap Jaipuri रजाई rather than proper armour. Built with legendary PSU quality.

They ought to upgrade to Dragon Skin and other such modern armour.

ksmahesh · Post by **ksmahesh** » 02 Dec 2008 20:24

RajeshA wrote:
ksmahesh wrote:Should anyone wish to help in creating the "Janam Patris" of our politicians then please mail to "india UNDERSCORE change" AT rediffmail DOT com.
Explain please! What do you mean by 'creating Janam Patris of politicians'?

A Janam patri of a political leader will contain all of the quotes (actual words) given by the leader (along with references from news websites) along with a summary of actions followed.

for eg. Gandhi and co shedding tears (real or otherwise) and a summary of party that Rahul (civility bounds me to control my language) attended with date and venue.

Sorry Admins for an off topic post.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 Dec 2008 20:50

Sorry ksmahesh,

It sounded to me, as if 'Janam Patri' was being used as an euphemism for 'death certificate'.

Sorry again!

nsa_tanay · Post by **nsa_tanay** » 02 Dec 2008 21:21

Shivani wrote:
nsa_tanay wrote:Why Salaskar,Kamte, Karkare Died?

Every single bullet went through the jackets
Not surprising. The jackets worn by Indian soldiers and policemen looks like a cheap Jaipuri रजाई rather than proper armour. Built with legendary PSU quality.

They ought to upgrade to Dragon Skin and other such modern armour.

Yes those jackets looks more like silly cheap metal sheets. The point is why such Jackets were made available to the security forces (including NSG, 2 NSG commandos died as bullet pierced their armour)

The answer is 'corruption' in out system. Few people must have become richer by providing those jackets to our forces.

Kapil · Post by **Kapil** » 02 Dec 2008 21:42

There is a serious enquiry on about the bullet proof vests.
Also,one SRPF jawan died after a bullet went through his helmet.

Lets find and fix the guys responsible for this first.

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 02 Dec 2008 21:50

I am a novice as far as arms and ammunition is concerned.. hence this question.

In recent Mumbai attack there were some 10 terrorists with backpacks ( some news channels said ruck-sacks ) full of ammunition and food for a week.

They created a havoc at Taj etc. There were very big flames near the Taj dome and other places. This continued for over 2 days. At Taj there were 4 terrorists.

At Nariman place there were two of them.. but there was no big fire ( similar to Taj dome ).

Question is ( or rather .. questions are ):

How much explosive is reqd for causing so much of fire and gunfight for so many days in so many different locations in Taaj?

Can one carry so much of ammunition in 4 backpacks along with AK47s and food and also walk/run fast in sand from crowd after getting off the boat? Do you require a superman to carry that much?

How much it ( the backpack ) must have weighed?

Are there different types of bombs to cause fire and destruction?

Why there was no big fire at Nariman?

The area covered by Taj is several times more than Nariman and if the same quatity is carried by each of them then Nariman should have been in rubble .. why it is still standing there?

shaggy · Post by **shaggy** » 02 Dec 2008 21:58

This is what every city/state needs regardless of the NSG commandos deployment proposal by ther center.

West Bengal to set up elite commando force
2 Dec 2008, 2200 hrs IST, PTI

Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:

KOLKATA: In the wake of the terrorist attack in Mumbai, West Bengal government has decided to set up its own elite special forces on the lines of
the National Security Guards to tackle urban terror.

The 1000-strong squad, to be based in Kolkata, would be given commando training and taught use of sophisticated weaponry to deal with terrorist attacks, hostage situations and protect vital installations.

The decision was taken at a high-level meeting held at the state secretariat and a formal cabinet nod is expected soon.

"The government has verbally agreed to our proposal. The force is the need of the hour and will be a reality very soon," Kolkata Police Commissioner Gautam Mohan Chakrabarti said.

"The state police are not equipped to handle such crisis situations. In case of a terror attack, we need to deploy trained men with sophisticated weapons as the first mode of response," said a senior officer of Kolkata police who was also present at the meeting.

"The squad will be under the direct command of a deputy commissioner. We will not only have fresh recruits but also put the best personnel of Kolkata police in the force" Chakraborty added.

Officials said even if NSG squads were posted in Kolkata as announced by the Centre, they would be under central command and would take vital time to deploy.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 02 Dec 2008 22:02

Also posted in the Intelligence thread - the sad state of affairs!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7760460.stm

'Rot' at heart of Indian intelligence

By Soutik Biswas
BBC News, Mumbai

India's commando forces took hours to reach the battle in Mumbai

The blame game over who was responsible for bloody terror attacks in the western Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) has a sense of déjà vu about it.

Security experts have criticised the response to the attacks, which left nearly 200 people dead, as "amateurish, sluggish and feeble".

Indian intelligence agencies are leaking information that they gave about half a dozen warnings to the government in Maharashtra state - of which Mumbai is the capital.

The reports say Maharashtra was warned that strikes were being planned on city landmarks, including, possibly, the Taj Mahal hotel at the historic Gateway of India.

Authorities in Mumbai flatly deny that they received any tip-offs. "It is unimaginable that we would have got this sensitive information and not react," says state Interior Secretary Chitkala Zutshi.

Knee-jerk responses

But security experts confirm that information extracted from a group of Indian and Pakistani men arrested in northern India earlier this year revealed that some men belonging to Pakistan-based groups had done a reconnaissance of major landmarks in Mumbai. The agencies had also been picking up militant chatter on attacks in the city.

The police in India are working on manpower and equipment assessments last made in the 1970s

Security analyst Praveen Swami

Yet the local police and intelligence agencies appeared to have failed to act on any of the information - despite doubts as to whether the information was shared promptly enough between the Mumbai authorities.

This is a story which keeps repeating itself in a country which has been hit by over half a dozen big "terror attacks" this year - the central and local security authorities trade charges over the sharing and quality of intelligence, followed by knee-jerk responses and investigations which fizzle out in a couple of years.

The attacks and their aftermath again point to the rot that has set into the country's internal security system and a lack of cohesion between civilian and security wings of the government.

One telling example: six days after the attack, even the number of dead and injured keeps going up and down, due to poor co-ordination between the police and hospitals.

More seriously, the Indian police appear to be incapacitated by a lack of money and training. Poor working conditions, rudimentary surveillance and communications equipment, inadequate forensic science laboratories and outdated weaponry are making matters worse.

"The Mumbai attacks prove that the whole system is falling apart. The police in India are working on manpower and equipment assessments last made in the 1970s," says security analyst Praveen Swami.

The fact that the gunmen came by sea - and sneaked into the city through a crowded fishing colony - points to almost non-existent coastal police patrols, as a local officer admits.

All that the police have is a couple of launches. They have no radar.

The Mumbai police - like most police in India - remain in a time warp: they are equipped with World War II vintage rifles and carbines handed down by the army. In most states, an average policeman's salary and status is equivalent to that of an unskilled municipal worker, encouraging corruption.

Inadequate protection

Budgets do not extend to supplying food to police personnel on shift, so many end up extorting food from street hawkers. They also routinely hitch free rides because they don't have enough vehicles.

Training and faster response times are urgently needed, critics say

Bullet proof vests are of inferior quality and phone interception equipment remains largely rudimentary.

And three years after the central government announced the setting up an ambitious National Police Mission to set out the future needs and requirements of the force, nothing has happened.

India's commando forces are also not exactly in good shape.

A group of the elite 7,400-strong National Security Guards (NSG) - who were flown in to Mumbai eight hours after the attacks - is based near the capital, Delhi. Many of the commandos, say experts, are wasted in giving protection to politicians and other VIPs.

The country's best commando force does not have its own aircraft. As a result, it has become used to spending hours reaching crisis locations, with mixed results.

"On average, the commando force has taken six to seven hours to reach and begin their operations and get their act together every time they have been called for. There have been delays," says Praveen Swami.

He says the commandos have been trained to rescue small groups of people. "They have not been trained on multiple location operations of such scale."

'No way to fight terrorism'

Any deficiencies in their training may be explained by the fact that a Mumbai-type attack only happens very rarely.

Attackers arrived by sea, police say

That is why Indian security experts like Ajai Sahni say that the response to the attacks was so poor.

"This is no way to fight terrorism," he says.

After the Mumbai attacks, the local government announced it would set up a state commando force: to begin with, some 500 armed men would be ready in four months.

This, when the basic training for the NSG commandos takes six months. And Maharashtra, along with other states, has no commando training centres.

A number of states where there have been attacks by Maoist rebels plan to raise their own commando forces, but early results point to hasty, faulty planning.

The authorities in eastern Orissa state, for example, hired 8,000 new policemen for anti-Maoist operations, but found to their dismay that it took six months to train just 350 of them.

There are allegations that many of the candidates paid bribes to get into the force.

India is seen as a 'soft' target

Painfully slow and lazy bureaucracy means that the modernisation of the security forces often takes ages. Police in Uttar Pradesh state took four years to buy imported surveillance equipment.

By the time it arrived, it had become outdated and now lies disused. One police official even paid by his own credit card to pick up a piece of $60 equipment from a foreign website for his forces because it would have taken him months, if not years, to acquire it.

With their bureaucratic ways of working, the intelligence agencies are also struggling.

There is a dearth of language specialists. India's spy agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), is reported by insiders to have only two Arabic and two Chinese language specialists, hired from language schools.

But the best do not stay on because of poor wages, and one of the Chinese language specialists who was trained in cyber-technology quit to join one of India's top industrial groups.

"Things have to begin from scratch to boost internal security in India. Authorities should come clean to the people and tell them how bad the situation is and set time-bound targets to begin improving security infrastructure," says Praveen Swami.

Otherwise, he warns, India will continue to be one of the softest targets for terror strikes in the world.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 02 Dec 2008 22:11

Sad state of affairs - II

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Citi ... 783461.cms

Cops just had 577 rifles, hadn't fired in 10 yrs
2 Dec 2008, 1203 hrs IST, Prafulla Marpakwar, TNN

MUMBAI: The state constabulary was grossly unprepared to deal with the worst-ever terror attacks on the metropolis because of an acute shortage of
weapons and ammunition.

Official records show that for a force of well over 1.8 lakh, the home department procured a meagre 2,221 weapons — 577 for Mumbai, and 1,644 for the rest of Maharashtra.

‘‘Under the centrally sponsored modernisation programme, we purchased almost all types of weapons, but for a state like Maharashtra, the number of weapons was grossly inadequate ,’’ a senior official told TOI on Monday.

In the absence of a firing range and of ammunition for practice, members of the law enforcement agencies have not opened fire in the last ten years. ‘‘I’ve been in the police force for a long time, but I had no occasion to open fire for practice,’’ a senior inspector of police said.

As per the police manual, officials ranking from constable to assistant inspector get rifles with 30 rounds each, and those with the rank of police sub-inspector and above get revolvers, also with 30 rounds each.

Jawans with the State Reserve Police Force are given SLRs or self-loading rifles. In addition, AK-47 rifles have been given to officials posted in areas where there is Naxal activity, while officials on VIP security duty are armed with either revolvers or carbines.

The manual also prescribes mandatory training for all officials, especially shooting practice at the firing range. According to a senior IPS official, the norms prescribed in the manual now exist only on paper because of the acute shortage of ammunition for practice and the non-availability of a firing range.

As per the rules, every district should have a firing range exclusively for the police. But official records indicate that more than half the state’s districts have no independent firing range.

‘‘We have constables who have not opened fire even for practice ever since their recruitment,’’ the official said.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 02 Dec 2008 22:17

My uncle who retired in 1985 (as DSP)......used his service pistol 3 times only.......that also in jungle

nsa_tanay · Post by **nsa_tanay** » 02 Dec 2008 22:19

Kapil wrote:There is a serious enquiry on about the bullet proof vests.
Also,one SRPF jawan died after a bullet went through his helmet.

Lets find and fix the guys responsible for this first.

You are right. we need to find the fault with in our system.

nsa_tanay · Post by **nsa_tanay** » 02 Dec 2008 22:21

rsingh wrote:My uncle who retired in 1985 (as DSP)......used his service pistol 3 times only.......that also in jungle

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 02 Dec 2008 22:23

just returned from India after 35 days stay.
The rot is complete and with in.

Nothing is what is said, nothing is what is seen, nothing is done what is said.

The public money is like holy water every body is at it helping themselves.
***********
Added later

Folks remember the Movie Enemy at the gates...

there is scene in which young fresh Russian soldiers are pushed into raging stalingrad door to door combat, some with rifles some with bullets and most often not with both on the same person.

That is the state of affairs as we see.

I wish one VVIP was made to do supreme sacrifice in the recent Mumbai terror, then things would have been a little more close to home of the ruling class.. only when that happens we may see change I am not sure though.

sugriva · Post by **sugriva** » 02 Dec 2008 22:25

Raj Malhotra wrote: Now point is what the Mumbai Police, its CP and DGP were doing from 10pm to 4am that is 6 hours when killings were going on in the heart of city i.e. before they could pass the blame to MARCOS/NSG. I ask the assh*les in power-that after sad demise of ATS personnel, were there no other person to take command?

AFAIK, Maharashtra ATS personal did engage with the commandos at both Taj and Trident before the arrival of MARCOS/NSG. Infact at CST it was the response of the Maharashtra police that forced girlie pig and his buddy to move from there. So please give the Maharashtra police some credit.

Raj Malhotra wrote:1. Why should the heads of Police CP, DGP & local SHOs not roll?

There aren't too many heads that can roll. Quite a few died in the line of duty battling these serpents.

Raj Malhotra wrote:3 to 7

These may also be deliberate and part of the operational procedures of the said forces. IMVHO better not to discuss them threadbare on this forum.

Raj Malhotra wrote:8. Why his personal permission is required?

Think. The answer is self evident.

Raj Malhotra wrote:9. What is the amount of training a police cop gets for firing his weapon? I think one round per year on average!

Fully agree with you on this one.

Raj Malhotra wrote:14. Note- I think all those leaks to show that there was adequate intelligence is I think to protect some top brass which I think can only be NSA himself.

Given that MKN volunteered to resign but has been retained by MMS, your point about doing this to save MKN does not hold much offer.

Raj Malhotra wrote:17. Why should we not mobilize, force Pakistan to draw away forces from North west front

Because Indian dogs must die like fleas so that Americans can live.

Raj Malhotra wrote: If we going to go to war, then we may have to live with these assh*les but if not then I say fire:-
1. NSA
2. Cabinet secretary
3. Home secretary
4. RAW head
5. IB Head
6. Mumbai DGP- a cry baby who looks like a gay and wants to hide his incompetence behind dead Mumbai Cops
7. Mumbai CP
8. Mumbai local SHOs
9. Coast Guard head

Given that there was an intelligence input and two coast guard people lost their lives trying to get to the Kuber the navy chief also has a lot of explaining to do.

nsa_tanay · Post by **nsa_tanay** » 02 Dec 2008 22:27

26/11 could have been stopped

Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times
Email Author
New Delhi, December 01, 2008
First Published: 22:43 IST(1/12/2008)
Last Updated: 12:33 IST(2/12/2008)

As the investigation into the intelligence failures that preceded the Mumbai attacks proceeds, there is evidence that even quite specific information that was gathered was either not properly analysed or not acted on.

The Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW), India’s external intelligence agency, had provided several intercepts from signals intelligence over the last three months. These suggested that a terror strike on a Mumbai hotel was imminent. But they were largely ignored.

The revelations about the phone intercepts (which R&AW has documented) are certain to lead to questions about the government’s inept response to the attack...On September 18, R&AW computers intercepted a satellite phone conversation between a known Lashkar-e-Tayyeba (LeT) asset and an unknown person. The LeT asset said that an operation to target a hotel at the Gateway of India in Mumbai was being planned and that the sea route would be used.

On September 24, R&AW’s computer recorded another satellite phone conversation. This time, the LeT asset identified the hotels that were being considered for the attack by name. They were the Taj, the Marriott, the Land’s End and the Sea Rock. A possible attack on the Juhu airfield (used by a flying club) was also discussed.

All these hotels have one thing in common: they are easily accessible from the sea. The Taj is on the Apollo Bunder waterfront, the Marriott is on Juhu sea face and the Land’s End and the Sea Rock are both on the sea-facing tip of Bandra. This should have been enough to let police know that: 1) Hotels were the target. 2) The attackers would use the sea route.

On November 19, R&AW listeners picked up another unexplained satellite phone conversation. A voice said, “We will reach Bombay between nine and eleven.” R&AW trackers identified the exact coordinates of the call and discovered that it came from the sea near Mumbai, 40 km west of Jhol.

This was clear evidence — at the very least — of an attempt being made to enter Mumbai illegally by people armed with advanced satellite phones.

R&AW passed on the information contained in each intercept on the very day it was received to the centralised intelligence group set up by the National Security Adviser. Its officers say that R&AW’s job ended there — it does not have the authority to operate on Indian soil.

Despite repeated attempts by HT, National Security Adviser MK Narayanan did not take calls.

On November 26, the day of the attack, but several hours before it had begun, R&AW trackers recorded a conversation between the LeT’s Muzammil, who has been under surveillance for some time, and a Bangladesh number.

Muzammil said that five SIM cards would be required for the operation.

R&AW analysts are still making sense of the conversation. Was Muzammil referring to another operation? Why would he ask somebody in Bangladesh for SIM cards to be used in Mumbai on the day of the operation?

One theory is that the LeT was unwilling to phone its Mumbai assets directly for fear that they would be traced. The Bangladesh number was either a relay station from which the call was forwarded to Mumbai or perhaps the LeT communicated with its Mumbai cells through Bangladesh based cut-outs or intermediaries.

The revelations about the phone intercepts (which R&AW has documented) are certain to lead to questions about the government’s inept response to the attack, especially as the intercepts make it clear that (a) Mumbai hotels were being targeted (b) that the sea route was being used and (c) that the attacks were imminent.

The Mumbai police say they had no specific inputs from intelligence agencies. But these intercepts were clear, detailed and specific. So, are the police lying? Was this information not passed on? Or was it just incorrectly processed?

So far, there are no answers.

nsa_tanay · Post by **nsa_tanay** » 02 Dec 2008 22:29

The like :--

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... en+stopped

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 02 Dec 2008 22:36

A couple of observations taking into consideration all that has occurred and is being reported now as posted above--

1) With the present state of affairs - a bunch of guys can easily enter Bombay Harbor in a fishing boat with a dirty bomb and devastate not just Bombay but as a consequence the entire economy of India.

2) All the MRCA's - Scorpenes - T-90 tanks etc etc are useless when 10 uneducated cannon fodder with a year of training can bring Bombay to it's knees. What if instead of the 10 terrorists there were 100???

We need to tackle the basics, not to be brought up after every tragedy but to be tackled proactively, with time bound agendas for implementation.

Without that everything else is a house of cards that will come crumbling down as we have recently witnessed in Bombay.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 02 Dec 2008 22:43

John Snow wrote:.........
I wish one VVIP was made to do supreme sacrifice in the recent Mumbai terror, then things would have been a little more close to home of the ruling class.. only when that happens we may see change I am not sure though.......

Sir,

You're spot on here!!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Dec 2008 22:45

there is another angle we are not thinking about... how many suitcases of cash did Dawood send for some people, possibly very high up people to look the other way?

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 02 Dec 2008 22:45

I have answer to all questions.
And that is **** We should start our own political party. Why not BR party. Just get those who have seen university and complete accountability and transparency.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2008 22:47

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20 ... 370279.jpg

Are they clear to do this at oberoi? no investigations? perhaps something important piece that is still missing or stands more glaring yet to be discovered?

Angre · Post by **Angre** » 02 Dec 2008 22:55

In the closed version of this thread, someone had mentioned US media roprting - specifically NPR.
The local PBS station had Deepak Gupta (Political Sc. UCSD, SDSU) talking about the Mumbai attacks. I just missed gettign a question in but here is a brief of what he had to say:

* direct links between LeT and AQ - mentioned Abu Zubayda being captured in a house of a LeT operative
* listed ISI (not Pak govt.) as contributor to the attacks
* listed IB/RAW lack of coordination as part of teh reason for lack of GoI response
* leverage India has by escalating border troop build-up and impact on NATO ops in Afghanistan

On the whole, a very direct talk with repeated references to unstable/bankrupt Pakistan, ISI and the LeT/JeM terrorists that have a free run of the land.

Raj Malhotra · Post by **Raj Malhotra** » 02 Dec 2008 23:21

I think that it is incorrectly believed that arming the police with new weapons is costly. If 100,000 INSAS rifles are procured (which will be adequate for whole of the country) for the police then cost = Rs. 120 crores. 5 crore bullets for training and storing = Rs. 50 crores per annum. Vehicles, wireless, BPJ, rifles, bullets, training range etc for the Police of the WHOLE nation will cost around ~Rs. 500 crores.

ss_roy · Post by **ss_roy** » 02 Dec 2008 23:37

A US soldier's family can buy a variety of dragonskin level 3 vests for less than 6 thousand USD. I have to say that it would be cheaper to supply soldiers/ police with such armor than pay compensation to their families.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Dec 2008 23:38

Aljazeera English also reports on the reaction in Pakistan to the Mumbai events, both on the part of Foreign Minister Qureishi and in an interview with hard line radical fundamentalist Gen. Hamid Gul, a former head of the dreaded Inter-Services Intelligence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX-R4XKLDcc

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Dec 2008 23:41

HEard on the TV

US was to use/leverage China, Back India and Squeeze Pakistan.
Every Indication seems to show that this is what is being worked on.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 02 Dec 2008 23:43

nsa_tanay wrote:26/11 could have been stopped

OMG.

If this is true then the NSA has a lot to answer for. Info this specific - hotels being named, sea route clearly mentioned, in one case, even caller coordinates zeroed in on, days before the carnage began - wasn't acted upon? Wow.

BTW, given Vir Singhvi's past record, I wouldn't too readily jump to conclusions. How does Singhvi know so much abt the RAW intercepts? He's no Praveen Swami, clearly. Could it be he's pulling all this outta his musharraf? Something's fishy here.

Further, if true, then his expose compromises the 'known LeT asset under RAW surveillence' because all the ISI needs to do now is to piece together who called whom in India and when.

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 02 Dec 2008 23:46

there are lot of chest beatings going on after the photographers statement that police didnt fire back. Here is a case of one policeman who did fire at the pigs

'How can our .303 rifles fight against AK-47?'
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/02m ... at-cst.htm

hegde · Post by **hegde** » 02 Dec 2008 23:48

India Times suggests BJP may be have wanted to eliminate Karkare as he was getting too nosey, and that the Mumbai attacks may have been a repeat of Malegaon

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... 771089.cms

Parivar doublespeak: Villain in life, hero in death
29 Nov 2008, 0102 hrs IST, ET Bureau

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MUMBAI: The heroic death of Maharashtra’s Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare in counter-terror operations has left the BJP-Shiv Sena
combine with egg on its face. On Friday, Narendra Modi, BJP’s poster-boy chief minister and Hindutva mascot, paid lofty tributes to Karkare and other senior cops who lost their lives in the counter attack.

But before his death on duty, Mr Karkare and his colleagues at the ATS were at the receiving end of almost a slanderous attack not only by BJP and Shiv Sena leaders, but also by several Sangh Parivar organisations for the ongoing ATS probe into the Malegaon blasts.

In fact, Mr Modi himself had attacked the ATS for the “biased” probe into the Malegaon blasts. So much so that the BJP and Sangh Parivar organisations had personally blamed Karkare for what they claimed “implicating the Hindu religious leaders and outfits” in the probe.

But the two parties are now singing eulogies to the valour demonstrated by the departed ATS chief. Ironically, the Shiv Sena had even called a Maharashtra bandh on December 1 to protest against the ATS probe and express solidarity with the accused — Sadhvi Pragya Singh and lieutenant colonel Shrikant Purohit — for their involvement in the Malegaon blasts. “It is supreme irony that the same BJP is now paying tributes to Karkare and is talking of helping his family,” union minister of state for home Shriprakash Jaiswal said on Friday.

But the double-speak demonstrated by the BJP and Shiv Sena could be more dangerous for the combine than a mere political embarrassment. Mr Jaiswal said the agencies probing the terror attack in Mumbai would also look into the fact that Mr Karkare was on “target by some people who had opposed his probe for about 15 days before November 26.”

hegde · Post by **hegde** » 02 Dec 2008 23:50

Meanwhile a scandal brews as Karkare's widow decline's compensation from Modi

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/karka ... er/392207/

Karkare's wife declines 'Modi's compensation' offer

The family of slain Maharashtra ATS chief Hemant Karkare has declined Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi's offer of monetary help, sources said on Saturday.

Modi on Friday visited the residences of Karkare and encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar, who were killed while fighting militants on Wednesday night.

Modi also announced that his Government would give Rs 1 crore to Maharashtra for the families of policemen killed in the attacks.

Karkare's widow and other family members have declined Modi's offer, the sources said.

14 Maharashtra police personnel, including two IPS officers, sacrificed their lives while fighting terrorists.

munna · Post by **munna** » 02 Dec 2008 23:57

hegde wrote:Meanwhile a scandal brews as Karkare's widow decline's compensation from Modi

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/karka ... er/392207/

Karkare's wife declines 'Modi's compensation' offer

Hegde please completely research your scandals before posting, here is a rejoinder to your post.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 03 Dec 2008 00:01

Uh, oh…the old fax again:

India renewed its years-old demand for about 20 fugitives it believes are hiding in Pakistan, via a protest note given to Pakistan's High Commissioner Shahid Malik in New Delhi on Monday

India demands Pakistani hand over fugitives

Duangkomon · Post by **Duangkomon** » 03 Dec 2008 00:06

This cctv footage shows mumbai police engaging the 2 piglets in CST.

Mumbai Station attacks: CCTV footage

Vinay_D · Post by **Vinay_D** » 03 Dec 2008 00:17

US official: India attack may have Pakistani roots

WASHINGTON (AP) — Evidence suggests that a group partly based in Pakistan carried out last week's attack in India, U.S. officials said Tuesday, also revealing that the U.S. had warned the Indian government beforehand that terrorists appeared to be plotting an assault on Mumbai.

The brutal, prolonged attack on India's financial capital has some roots in Pakistan, a senior State Department official said. That's the closest the U.S. has come to placing blame for the coordinated assaults, although the official was careful to say that not all the evidence is in. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.
......

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 03 Dec 2008 00:27

If this isn't malicious, then what is?

From the int'l herald tribune

India says Mumbai attackers came by ship from Karachi

Gafoor said the 10 had been trained by an ex-army officer, although he refused to specify which army the officer belonged to, and that all been trained in the same location, some for as long as a year, although he would not say where.

A photo released by Mumbai Fire Brigade showing burnt-out interiors on the top floors of the Taj Mahal Hotel, one of the venues of terror attacks in Mumbai, India on Saturday. (Mumbai Fire Brigade/The Associated Press)