JE Menon wrote:While the piece by Tellis is useful, we should be careful about how much credit and credibility we - especially governmental and semi-governmental agencies - give to these people. It may come back to bite us at a later point, when they might not be quite so friendly in their analysis... It is not inconceivable that Tellis may, at a later stage, advocate a "land for peace" sort of arrangement with Pakistan. We need to be wary.
But certainly, there is reason for optimism in that his comments indicate a certain degree of institutional mind-shift in the case of our friendly neighbour that is occurring as a result of Mumbai. It is probably a cumulative thing, where the last few stragglers from the Cold War era in the American strategic enclave are being corralled towards a rather different view, made easier by the stupidity of the ISI, which certainly had a conceptual, guidance and facilitation role.
A non-response - i.e. just the extraction of apologies, and a few arrests and organisational name changes - is not going to cut it. There are other violent and calibrated responses possible, once all the evidence is collated to OUR satisfaction, and once Pakistan confirms that it will not hand over the required terrorists to India.
Who says, for instance, that the Pakistani Navy - which facilitated this strike on Mumbai - cannot be severely degraded overnight?
JEM,
What caught my eye was not only Tellis writing what he did but the journal which it appeared in. YaleGlobal is just about as close as you can get to establishment thinking in the US - it's not some sort of left-wing or independent journal. This certainly looks like mind set change in the US. However, as you say that doesn't necessarily mean the changing mindset will become pro-India, or let's put this way, attuned to Indian thinking.
Hitting the Pak Navy sounds an interesting idea, how about sinking that Al Husseni or whatever LeT ship which was supposed to have originally brought the piglets to Indian territorial waters.
I also agree some form of response is needed, just don't know if bombing the ISI HQ as Rudradev so eloquently suggested is the answer.
One point, the Pakis have been on an escalatory spiral as regards the scope of terror attacks outside of Kashmir is concerned and we've always been reactive. Now if we can up the ante in an escalatory spiral of our own with disproportionate response that will make the jarnails pause and think because I'm sure they'd rather have their 72 on earth instead of the rather iffy Jannath.
The point is punitive military strikes, whatever they may be are one off in nature. To really hurt the Jarnail we need a more long term covert action against them and their families, the jihadi leaders and the economy. That's when it will really begin to pinch, IMO.
Like I wrote in some other post, the moment the Agricultural department of the Paki Army starts to preside over valueless land and Defence Colonies that's when the Jarnails will come to their senses.
Pakis being taken off the MSCI Emerging Markets Index is a very welcome start to this journey, methinks.
Pakistan Army's elite wing trained terrorists for Mumbai attack
The terror attack on Mumbai last month was the first time that terrorists had used the sea route to strike at the heart of the city.
Intelligence Bureau reports suggest that the terrorists received special maritime training from the Musa Company of the special services group of the Pakistan Army [Images].
Following the training imparted at the Murdike and Thakot camps of the Lashkar-e-Tayiba, the terrorists were shifted to Karachi, where they received maritime training from the Musa Company.
An Intelligence Bureau official told rediff.com that the Musa Company, formed on the lines of Indian Navy's MARCOS, specialiases in maritime operations. IB reports suggest that at the training programme of the Musa Company, which was supervised personally by the Inter Services Intelligence, the terrorists received lessons in navigation, rough weather sailing and naval maneuvering.
The terrorists were told to use boats similar to Indian fishing boats to avoid suspicion and detection. During the training programme, these men were informed that the Coast Guard and Navy vessels don't navigate too close to the coastline, as it is crowded with fishing boats.
The terrorists were aware that the fishing boats sail in groups, with as many as 50 to 100 boats in each group, and joining any such fleet would help the terrorists dodge the Navy.
Statistics reveal that over 10,000 fishing boats travel across the Arabian Sea from Karachi everyday.
Encouraged by reports of the police and Customs officials accepting bribes, the Musa Company zeroed in on the Gujarat coastline, a route frequently used by smugglers. The coastline is manned by police and Customs officials, who do not have proper equipment to detect and apprehend terrorists.
Don't know if this is right place, Admins please DELETE this if not appropriate.
Qasab's full confession
By: A Correspondent
Date: 2008-12-10
Mumbai:
MiD DAY brings to you the chilling first-person account of the lone surviving terrorist, as told to the police
Statement of accused Mohd Ajmal Amir Qasab; Age 21 yrs. Occupation: Labour, R/O - Faridkot, Tehsil -Dipalpur, Dist -Ukada, State -Suba Punjab, Pakistan
I am as above and reside at the above given address since my birth. I have studied up to 4th standard from Government Primary School.
After leaving school in 2000, I went to Lahore. My brother Afzal stays at galli No. 54, R.No. 12, Mohalla Tohit Abad, near Yadgar Minar, Lahore. I did labour jobs at different places till 2005. During that period I used to visit my native place. In the year 2005, I had a quarrel with my father. Therefore, I left my house and went to Ali Hajveri Darbar at Lahore.
At the said place, the boys who had run away from their houses are kept. From there, the boys are sent to different places for employment. One day when I was there, a person by name Shafiq came there and took me with him. He was in the catering business. He was from Zhelam. I started working with him on daily wages. I was given Rs 120 per day. After some days my salary was increased up to Rs 200 per day. I worked with him till 2007.
While I was working with Shafiq, I came in contact with one Muzaffar Lal Khan, aged 22 years, r/o Village -Romiya, Tehsil & Dist -Atak, State -Sarhad, Pakistan. As we were not getting enough money, we decided to carry out robbery / dacoity at some place so that we will get a large amount. As such we left the job.
Thereafter we went to Rawalpindi. We hired a flat at Bangash Colony, Rawalpindi, and started residing in it. Afzal had located a house where he thought we would get a large amount.
He had surveyed the said place and drawn a map of the said place. We required some fire-arms for our purpose. Afzal told me that he could get some fire-arms at his native place, but it was very risky, as there was frequent checking at his native place.
While we were in search of fire-arms we saw some LeT stalls at Raja bazaar, Rawalpindi, on the day of Bakri-id. We thought that, even if we procured fire-arms, we could not operate them. Therefore, we decided to join LeT for weapon training.
After making enquiries we reached LeT office. In the LeT office we met a person. We told him that we wanted to join LeT. He made some enquiry with us, noted our names and address and told us to come on next day.
On the next day, we went to LeT office and met the same man. One more person was present with him.
He gave us Rs 200 and some receipt. Then he gave us the address of a place called Marqas Taiyyaaba, Muridke, and told us to go to the said place where LeT is having their training camp. As directed, we went to the said place by bus. We showed the receipt given to us at the gate of the camp. We were allowed inside. At the entry gate, our details were filled up on two forms. Then we were taken to the actual camp area. At the said place, initially we were selected for 21 days training called Daura-Sufa. From the next day, we started attending training. The daily programme was as mentioned below.
04.15: Wake up call and thereafter namaz
08.00: Breakfast
08.30-10.00: Lecture on Hadis and Quran by Mufti Sayyed
10.00-12.00: Rest
12.00-13.00: Lunch Break
13.00-14.00: Namaz
14.00-16.00: Rest
16.00-18.00: PT and Game Instructor Fadulla
18.00-20.00: Namaz and other work
20.00-21.00: Dinner
After completion of the above said training, we were selected for another training called Daura-Ama. The said training was also for 21 days. We were then taken in a vehicle to a place called Mansera, Buttal Village. At the said place, we were given training of all weapons for 21 days. The daily programme was as mentioned below.
04.15 - 05.00: Wake up call and thereafter namaz
05.00-6.00: PT Instructor abu Anas
08.00: Breakfast
08.30-11.30: Weapons training. Trainer Abdul Rehman, Weapons AK-47, Green-O, SKS, Uzi gun, pistol, revolver
11.30-12.00: Rest
12.00-13.00: Lunch break
13.00-14.00: Namaz
14.00-16.00: Rest
16.00-18.00: PT
18.00-20.00: Namaz and other work
20.00-21.00: Dinner
After completing the said training, we were told that, we will be given the next advance training, but for that purpose we have to do some Khidmat for two months (Khidmat is a sort of service in the said camp as per the trainees' liking). We agreed to do the Khidmat for two months.
After two months, I was allowed to go to meet my parents. I stayed with my parents for one month. Thereafter, I went to LeT camp situated at Shaiwainala, Muzzafarabad, for further advanced training. At that place, they took my photographs and filled up some forms. Then we were taken to Chelabandi pahadi area for training called Duara-khas. The said training was for 3 months. The training included PT, handling of all weapons and firing practice of the said weapons, training of handling of hand grenade, rocket launchers and mortars. The daily programme was as mentioned below.
04.15-05.00: Wake up call and thereafter namaz
05.00-06.00: PT Instructor Abu Mawiya
08.00: Breakfast
08.30-11.30: Weapons training handling of all weapons and firing practices of the said weapons, training of handling of hand grenade, rocket launchers and mortars, Green-O, SKS, Uzi gun, pistol, revolver, Hand grenade, rocket launchers. Trainer Abu Mawiya
11.30-12.00: Rest
12.00-13.00: Lunch Break
13.00-14.00: Namaz
14.00-16.00: Weapon training and firing practice. Lecture on Indian security agencies
16.00-18.00: PT
18.00-20.00: Namaz and other work
20.00-21.00: Dinner
At the said place 32 persons were present for training.
Out of these 32 trainees, 16 were selected for some confidential operation by one Zaqi-ur-Rehman Chacha. Out of these 16 trainees 3 trainees ran away from the camp. The above said chacha then sent the remaining 13 of us along with a person called Kafa to the above said earlier camp at Muridke. At Muridke, we were taught swimming and getting acquainted with the environment experienced by a fisherman on a sea.
We did some experimental tours by launches on the sea. During the said training, we were given lectures on working of Indian security agencies. We were shown the clippings highlighting the atrocities on Muslims in India.
After completing the said training, we were allowed to go to our native places. For seven days, I stayed with my family members. After seven days I went to the LeT camp at Muzzafarabad.
The above said 13 of us were present for training. Thereafter, as per the instructions of Zaki-ur-Rehman, the above said Kafa took us to camp at Muridke. At the said camp again we underwent the training of swimming and getting acquainted with the environment and experience on sea. The training continued for one month.
During the said training, we were given the lectures on India and its security agencies, including RAW. We were also given the training on how to evade the chase by security personnel. We were strictly instructed not to make phone calls to Pakistan after reaching India.
The names of the persons present for the said training are as mentioned below.
Mohd Azmal aka Abu Muzahid
Ismail aka Abu Umar
Abu Ali
Abu Aksha
Abu Umer
Abu Shoeb
Abdul Rehman (Bada)
Abdul Rehman (Chhota)
Afadulla
Abu Umar
After completion of training, Zaki-ur-Rehman aka Chacha selected 10 of us and formed 5 teams each having two persons on 15 Sept 2008. My team included myself and Ismail. Our code name was VTS team. We were then shown the site 'Google Earth' on Internet. On the same site, we were shown the information about Azad Maidan, Mumbai, how and where to get down at Mumbai. We were shown the film on VT railway station and the film showing the commuters moving around at rush hours at VT railway station.
We were instructed to carry out the firing at rush hours in the morning between 7 to 11 hours and between 7 to 11 hours in the evening. Then kidnap some persons, take them to the roof of some nearby building. After reaching at the roof top, we were to contact chacha. After that, chacha would give the telephone or mobile no of electronic media. We were then to contact the media persons on the same phone. And as per the instructions received from chacha, we would make demands for releasing the hostages. This was the general strategy decided by our trainers.
The date fixed for the said operation was 27th Sept 2008. However, the operation was cancelled for some reason. We stayed at Karachi. Again we made practice of travelling by speed boats on the sea. We stayed there upto 23rd Nov 2008. The other teams were as mentioned below.
2nd Team
1) Abu Aksha
2) Abu Umar
3rd Team
1) Bada Abdul Rehman
2) Abu Ali
4th Team
1) Chhota Abdul Rehman
2) Afadulla
5th Team
1) Shoeb
2) Abu Umer
On 23rd Nov 2008, the above said teams including our team left from Azizabad, Karachi along with Zaki-ur-Rehman aka Chacha and Kafa. We were taken to the nearby sea shore. At 04.15 hours we reached the sea shore. At the sea shore we boarded a launch. After traveling for 22 to 25 nautical miles we met a bigger launch in the sea. We boarded the said launch and after journey of 1 hour we boarded a bigger ship by name Al-Huseini in the deep sea. While boarding the said ship, each of us was given a sack containing 8 grenades, one AK-47 rifle, 200 cartridges, 2 magazines and one cell phone for communication.
Then we started towards Indian coast. When we reached Indian waters, the crew members of Al-Huseini ship hijacked one Indian launch. The seamen from the said launch were shifted to Al-Huseini ship. We were then boarded the hijacked Indian ship. One Indian seaman was kept along with us.
At the gun point, he took us towards the Indian coast. After journey of about 3 days, we reached near sea shore of Mumbai. While we were at some distance from the shore, Ismail and Afadulla killed the Indian seaman, (Tandel) at the basement of the said Indian launch. Then we boarded floatable dinghi and reached Budwar Park Jetty as per the instructions received earlier.
After getting down at Budwar Park, I went along with Ismail to VT railway stn by taxi.
After reaching the hall of VT railway stn. We, i.e. Ismail and myself, went to the common toilet, took out the weapons from our sacks, loaded them, came out of toilet and started firing indiscriminately towards the passengers.
Suddenly one police officer in uniform came towards us and opened fire. In retaliation, we threw hand grenades towards him and also opened fire towards him. Then we went inside the railway stn threatening the commuters and randomly firing at them.
Then we came out of the railway stn and started searching for a building with roof top. But we did not find a suitable building. Therefore, we entered a lane. Then we entered a building and went upstarts. On 3rd or 4th floor we searched for hostages but we found that the said building was a hospital and not a residential building. Therefore we started coming down.
At that time policemen started firing at us. As such we threw some grenades towards them. When we were coming out of the hospital premises, we suddenly saw one police vehicle passing in front of us. Therefore, we took shelter behind a bush.
Another vehicle passed in front of us and stopped at some distance. One police officer got down from the said vehicle and started firing at us. One bullet hit my hand and my AK-47 dropped down. I bent to pick it up when second bullet hit me on the same hand. I got injured. Ismail opened fire at the officers who were in said vehicle. They got injured and firing from their side stopped.
We waited for some time and then went towards the said vehicle. Three bodies lying there. Ismail removed the three bodies and drove the said vehicle. I sat next to him. While we were moving in the said vehicle, some police men tried to stop us. Ismail opened fire towards them while we were on the move; our vehicle got punctured near a big ground by the side of road. Ismail got down from the driver seat, stopped a car at the gun point and removed the three lady occupants from the said car. Then Ismail carried me to the car and sat me inside as I was injured. Then he drove the said car.
While we were moving in the said car, we were stopped on the road near sea shore. Ismail fired towards them. Some policemen got injured. Police also opened fire towards us. Due to the police firing Ismail got injured. Then police removed us to some hospital. In the hospital I came to know that Ismail succumbed to the injuries he has sustained.
My statement is read over to me, explained in Hindi and it is correctly recorded.
Thereafter we went to Rawalpindi. We hired a flat at Bangash Colony, Rawalpindi, and started residing in it. Afzal had located a house where he thought we would get a large amount.
He had surveyed the said place and drawn a map of the said place. We required some fire-arms for our purpose. Afzal told me that he could get some fire-arms at his native place, but it was very risky, as there was frequent checking at his native place.
While we were in search of fire-arms we saw some LeT stalls at Raja bazaar, Rawalpindi, on the day of Bakri-id. We thought that, even if we procured fire-arms, we could not operate them. Therefore, we decided to join LeT for weapon training.
After making enquiries we reached LeT office. In the LeT office we met a person. We told him that we wanted to join LeT. He made some enquiry with us, noted our names and address and told us to come on next day.
On the next day, we went to LeT office and met the same man. One more person was present with him.
He gave us Rs 200 and some receipt. Then he gave us the address of a place called Marqas Taiyyaaba, Muridke, and told us to go to the said place where LeT is having their training camp. As directed, we went to the said place by bus. We showed the receipt given to us at the gate of the camp. We were allowed inside. At the entry gate, our details were filled up on two forms. Then we were taken to the actual camp area. At the said place, initially we were selected for 21 days training called Daura-Sufa. From the next day, we started attending training.
Here he is utterly lying and trying to dodge police.......
1. AK series rifles are available freely in rahim yaar khan in NWFP of pakistan for about PRs 6000.00 and for about PRs 10,000 in karachi back yards. One doesn't have to travel long for arms and ammo in pakistan.
A pika gun is available for about PRs 4000
Pashtoons have shops in karachi and openly sell AK series rifles and other kalashnikovs.
2. An LeT recruit starts from their own madarsas. They pickup the devoted ones as their recruits not outsiders...
As per Rakesh Maria's interview, the above mentioned "confession" is a fake. He is right about the fact that they note confessions in Marathi.
It is amazing that a journalist got hold of the original confession in Marathi and translated it. That, or someone is putting out blatantly false reports.
This fellow's (Kasab) story is that he was told that even if you die during jihad your face will glow after your death. He was shown photographs of his dead associates. Then Kasab told us he was not told anything like this could also happen.
Sandeep Bajwa had an excellent idea many years ago: bodies of such terrorists found should be burnt in full view along with pigs. Get a resident mullah/maulavi to say that because of this, there is no jannat for them and will live in hell forever.
This fellow's (Kasab) story is that he was told that even if you die during jihad your face will glow after your death. He was shown photographs of his dead associates. Then Kasab told us he was not told anything like this could also happen.
Sandeep Bajwa had an excellent idea many years ago: bodies of such terrorists found should be burnt in full view along with pigs. Get a resident mullah/maulavi to say that because of this, there is no jannat for them and will live in hell forever.
Tactics reportedly first used by US gen 'Blackjack' Pershing in the Philipines in the early part o the 20th century. Bury jihadists with pigs. Lone surviving prisoner released to spread the gospel amongst fellow jihadists. Effects were immediate and substantial, he reports.
lakshmic wrote:I wondered where the turds were. Seems they are making their way out of the woodwork.
Prakash Karat is a man who has been beaten like a dog this year on the Indo-US Nuclear Deal. His failure on this front, will keep troubling him even beyond his grave. He will keep on thinking in circles, whether he could have done something differently, may be pulled back his support to the UPA a bit earlier, may be kept a more cautious eye on Mulayam Singh and Amar Singh, may be not have underestimated MMS. He will be plagued by his idiocy for a very long time.
When Brinda one day doesn't talk to him, he will say it is because he lost face during the Indo-US Nuke Deal. So it is natural for him put all the blame for everything on that accursed deal.
Agreed. BUt let us not forget the fact that because of him, (and ofcourse a group of scientists) our MMS and team India negotiated tough and got some concesions from unlce. Whetehr knowingly or un knowingly he has contributed to India's well being !
SandeepA wrote:The best part of both Sonu nigam clips was the way he referred to beautiful India. Just showed his words came from the heart. So these attacks have thrown in 3 positive surprises Arnab Goswami, Suhel Seth and Sonu Nigam. Who else?
And Mumbai Police aka pandus. Never forget all the pressure on TSP is due to the Mumbai Policeman who captured the pig alive.
You should make alist of all those who failed too.
Raj Thackeray
RR Patil
Shivarj Patil
Deshmukh
His son
RG Varma: Guy is good at gangster movies. Will die rather than see his moveis again.
Javed Jaffery
To add ;
# NSA
# Head of RAW & IB & MI (Militory inteligence)
# Head of coast guard
# Chief of Indian navy Mumbai region
# DGP of Mumbai ( who did not use his own RPF unit) and local inteligence heads
# Cabinet secretory's / and other heads related to home and Inteligence
India also sought to have the UN committee include on the list Hamid Gul, a retired Pakistani Army general who headed the country's main intelligence agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, in the late 1980s. However, China, a close ally of Pakistan that has veto power on the Security Council, apparently blocked Mr. Gul's inclusion.
kiyanahi must have shamelessly performed some very dirty little tricks to please the lizard in order to get Gul off the hook... unless ofcourse Gul knows far too much about the repainted lizard nukes
Its no secret PRC ‘helped’, nay all but couriered finished bums, to the Packees. But there may be other better kept secrets of just how much PRC is invested in supporting, arming, financing, training, intelligence sharing with, target-selecting for, drug running with, networking across etc the jihadist eco-system centered in Papistan.
All of which will spill when Hamid Gul sings like a canary in Indian custody - info duly shared with US, Russian, and EU observers.
Notice the taqqiyya and complete absence of any ill-will towards the JuD turds:
Pak crackdown to avoid terrorist state tag: Minister
12 Dec 2008, 1625 hrs IST, PTI
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan, which has launched a crackdown on Jamaat-ud-Dawa, said the country faced the prospects of being declared a terrorist state
and left with a crippled economy if it had not acted on the sanctions imposed on the terrorist group by the UN Security Council.
"There was a resolution in the United Nations Security Council. If Pakistan had not taken steps under that, then they could have declared Pakistan a terrorist state. They could have crippled Pakistan's economy," defence minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar said.
"If the whole world is on one side, Pakistan does not have the strength to face the whole world. We can fight against our enemies, but we can't fight an economic war with the whole world," he said.
Pakistan has launched a crackdown on JuD, the front organisation of the banned LeT blamed for the Mumbai terror attacks, in response to the UN Security Council's declaration of the group as a terrorist outfit, he said.
Referring to the tension sparked by the Mumbai terror attacks and reports of a possible military confrontation between Pakistan and India, Mukhtar said war was "not to the advantage of either" country.
Pakistan on Thursday had banned the JuD and placed its chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, also the founder of the LeT, under house arrest for three month. Jamaat offices across the country were sealed on Thursday night by police and security agencies. There are also unconfirmed reports that dozens of Jamaat activists have been detained.
So, he is saying :if Pak was stronger, the situation could have been different and he is doing all this just to avoid sanctions. The Paki state is not getting any joy by doing this horrible job of banning our dear Munnas.
I predict that this time's eyewash will be no different than the situation after the parliament attack. I see no change in the Paki attitude towards the terror orgs( civilian or Army) and we can expect normal schedule to start within three months once the pressure cools.
These are a just a few of the questions that people are asking
However i believe that the following measures need to put through:
address the issue as a national security threat and not a law enforcement issue
form an appropriate dedicated counter terrorist unit. examples are 22 SAS, 1st SFOD-A, GIGN and GSG9
overhaul the intelligence setup on the lines of the CIA-SAD, Shin Bet, MI5
have a national level policy of dealing with terrorism
i'd be more than glad to offer practical advise on funding, organisation setup, equipment and weapon systems required for all of the above if BRFites are interested
Last edited by archan on 12 Dec 2008 22:54, edited 4 times in total.
Reason:This was your first post. I want to point out to you that please follow basic English grammar rules. Not using punctuation marks, inserting random line breaks etc. makes your posts hard to follow and degrades the readability of the forum in general.
X-posted...
We need to be clear about NSG roles and missions (R&M). It is VIP proximate security like the US Secret Service and Anti-terrorist operations like US Delta force. And its under Police leadership. Due to the contradictions in the R&M it will not do the the job optimally. I thin kthe SPG and SAG be bifurcated. All the lacuna in the NSG ops- IC 814 hijack and the current Mumbai attack are due to transportation difficulties in getting them from tehri base to the incident location.
Every incident gives an opportunity to study what worked and what didnt so that atleast it doesn't happen next time. However after IC 814 hijack looks like no lessons were learned about fixing the transportation delay. Nor were local resources raised for holding operations. Was the Akshardam temple attack studied?
India needs to pick up Gul, and the whole world will be more than moderately enlightened. In fact pick up his whole family for hospitality, Kilte hain Gul yahaan, kil ke raaz bikherne ko!
Another question,
Once somebody has been declared a terrorist in the UN List, does it mean one can officially put a Supari on his head?
I am definitely skeptical of GOI actions. I doubt if they will contine stubbornly like what U.S did with the 09/11 suspects and bringing them to justice. GOI shouldn't let the men behing the Mumbai attacks go free. They shouldn't let even Dawood Ibrahim getaway with the 1993 attacks in Mumbai and the recent attacks. It looks like Dawood also contributed to the 11/26 attack.
Even as Indian officials lambasted Pakistan as the "epicenter" of terrorism and dismissed its crackdown on extremist groups as inadequate in the wake of the attacks last month in Mumbai, they all but ruled out the prospect of a military confrontation.
Rather, Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee told members of Parliament on Thursday that it would take time for India to turn off the tap of support for militant groups operating across the border and that war was "no solution."
"We shall have to patiently confront it," he said. "We have no intention to be provoked."
India turning off taps *for* militant support?
BTW, moi liked Pranab da's statement of
"We have no intention to be provoked."
Seems like some on western establishment (and DDM ) have been gaming this to their advantage and dragging in cashmere at every turn. Better India consider her options seriously and strike at a time and manner of her choosing. After all, as was said in the Godfather
Guys, I've been watching DDM closely past few days: timesnow, cnn-ibn etc, where they have had quite a few TSPians. I noticed that every TSPian with a sly grin and sarcastic tone keep bringing in the Mariott attack in TSP with the Mumbai attack, almost making it sound and hinting that Mumbai attack is some kind of retaliation for Mariott attack. Make no mistake about it, every f%^c*&^g Paki is taking consummate pleasure at what they see as 'revenge'. Hence the chutzpah, no remorse, and mocking tone suggesting how 10 of their TFTA made India look impotent. Combine this with A'Roy type anti-Hindu Nazis grinding India's image to dust, and India's abject weak response, I can only see TSP becoming more emboldended, convinced that their terror strategy is gong to deliver them the goods.
Curious that the Marriott bombings happened on Sep 22nd and these LeT scum departed 2 months later on Nov 23rd...both of them orchestrated by the same people, clearly. There were reports of some large metal boxes with communications equipment of the NSA that was moved to the top floors of the MArriott hotel, all of which was wiped out in the massive explosion, which was the supposed target of the attack.
The choice of the attacked elite hotels in Mumbai, frequencted by westerners, clearly indictes that TSP wanted maximum coverage in western media; hope being that westerners will boycott India in the interim just as TSP being shunned like plauge, and while India works its way back, TSP hopes to piggy back with this crap about 'both are victims of terror onlee' and "Hindu terrorists" == LeT sophistry. This is where I fear the western media, DDM & MMS/Sonia will play into TSP's hands by singing the same tune.
Given that military retaliation is now ruled out, can one hope and pray that Indian diplomats and DDM will tirelessly debunk this crap about "we are both victims of terror onlee"; in TSP's case its the state apparatus in cahoots with its foot soldiers who are perpetrating terror both in TSP and India, and India is the real passiive victim. Thus, if the state apparatus of TSP is held accountable for the pigs on its soil, 'both victims' of terror will be better off. Its not as if the west does not know this, but DDM and Indian diplomats need to rub this in before it assumes an irreversible life of its own.
Last edited by CRamS on 13 Dec 2008 10:55, edited 1 time in total.
Adm.Raja Menon on a TV show explained why it was near imposs. for either the IN/CG to stop the terrorists at sea.Allegedly, some coordinates were given,which were those within Pak waters.Secondly,from the so-called "confession",the fishing vesssel carying the terrorists slipped into coastal waters merging with other fishing vessels.There are supposed to be 50,000+ such vessels operating in these waters alone,none with RFIDs,etc.The task of stopping and searching every vessel is an impossibility when the CG/IN have so few vessels in service.Hard intelligence is the only answer if one wants to intercept such a team.Any other interception made would be due to good luck.As of now,the CG does not ,unlike the USCG,have the right to stop any vessel ,search and board it.The innermost boundary of the coast is supposed to be sanitised by Indian customs and the marine police,who have allegedly yet to be provided with a single boat!
In future,a clear disticntion of operation/responsibility of each maritime zone should be clearly spelt out,with the automatic right of search for the security agencies of any vessel within Indian territorial waters and also within our maritime exclusive economic zone (EEZ),in accordance with our international Law of the Sea rules.At the moment,it appears that the innermost line of defence is the most porous,with few coastal police stations and pitiful if any fast craft/boats that can intercept fast smuggling boats and terrorist infiltrators.If the POaki navy is openly training and supporting the terrorists,as an unoffical commando force,then the problem becomes very great,as in future it could use its subs to deliver special forces/terror commandos from just outside our waters,where they could ,as was done in 26/11 arrive anywhere on our coastline using iunflatables/RIBs.The IN/CG/Maritime police forces require huge investments in assets,especially hundeds of small fast craft/interceptors to stop both terror attacks and also smuggking,the nexus bewteen both very evident.
I hope Congress does not mis-read the mood of the public. If they actually think they can just fix internal security and hope this goes away, they will be sorely mistaken. BJP will clearly take advantage of this... it has to be a fool to not do that. So if pakis don't deliver the bad abduls, I doubt congress has any options but to cross the border.
Watch the video and you will know how important it is to crush these snakes
CRamS wrote:Guys, I've been watching DDM closely past few days: timesnow, cnn-ibn etc, where they have had quite a few TSPians. I noticed that every TSPian with a sly grin and sarcastic tone keep bringing in the Mariott attack in TSP with the Mumbai attack, almost making it sound and hinting that Mumbai attack is some kind of retaliation for Mariott attack. Make no mistake about it, every f%^c*&^g Paki is taking consummate pleasure at what they see as 'revenge'. Hence the chutzpah, no remorse, and mocking tone suggesting how 10 of their TFTA made India look impotent. Combine this with A'Roy type anti-Hindu Nazis grinding India's image to dust, and India's abject weak response, I can only see TSP becoming more emboldended, convinced that their terror strategy is gong to deliver them the goods.
Last edited by samuel.chandra on 13 Dec 2008 11:34, edited 1 time in total.
samuel.chandra wrote:I hope Congress does not mis-read the mood of the public. If they actually think they can just fix internal security and hope this goes away, they will be sorely mistaken. BJP will clearly take advantage of this... it has to be a fool to not do that. So if pakis don't deliver the bad abduls, I doubt congress has any options but to cross the border.
Watch the video and you will know how important it is to crush these snakes
CRamS wrote:Guys, I've been watching DDM closely past few days: timesnow, cnn-ibn etc, where they have had quite a few TSPians. I noticed that every TSPian with a sly grin and sarcastic tone keep bringing in the Mariott attack in TSP with the Mumbai attack, almost making it sound and hinting that Mumbai attack is some kind of retaliation for Mariott attack. Make no mistake about it, every f%^c*&^g Paki is taking consummate pleasure at what they see as 'revenge'. Hence the chutzpah, no remorse, and mocking tone suggesting how 10 of their TFTA made India look impotent. Combine this with A'Roy type anti-Hindu Nazis grinding India's image to dust, and India's abject weak response, I can only see TSP becoming more emboldended, convinced that their terror strategy is gong to deliver them the goods.
Hurt Pakistani citizens everywhere. Do not shop from their stores, do not hire them in any jobs. Not that they do anything important in US other than serving tables. Whatever few try to get into IT, we should not hire any of them and with the current economic condition, we should completely make their life miserable. This Shan maasala economy has to be destroyed. War is okay, but its time to destroy their economy, make sure they stay hungry, their kids stay hungry and their parents stay hungry. Humiliation is the only way to get back at them.
kbasu wrote:
Hurt Pakistani citizens everywhere. Do not shop from their stores, do not hire them in any jobs. Not that they do anything important in US other than serving tables. Whatever few try to get into IT, we should not hire any of them and with the current economic condition, we should completely make their life miserable. This Shan maasala economy has to be destroyed. War is okay, but its time to destroy their economy, make sure they stay hungry, their kids stay hungry and their parents stay hungry. Humiliation is the only way to get back at them.
I have never bought any na-pak item knowingly. since i landed in US i always avoided going to their restaurants, shopping from their shops, buying anything made in pakistan or watch any of their entrainment thing. I respect talent and art but i am sorry , my money is not going to terrorists.
I hope my all other fellow countrymen and friends will do the same.
1. The day the attack took place , Zardari and Geelani said Attackers were not from Pakistan ,infact the possibility of Pakistan being origin of the attackers or the operation was out rightly denied.
2. MMS mumbles something which makes little sense as usual .
2. Day2-3 Zardari says this may be an act of state less entities (whatever that means ) .
3. Ajmal alias Kasab allegedly discloses his identity to IP, TOI and HINDU publish the story , Pak media understandably in denial , so is GOP.
4. Gaurdian publishes an independent account of Ajmal's origins and confirms he is from a place Faridkot in Pakistan.
5. Day or two ago even DAWN confirms the same DAWN
6. UN this time passes resolution to ban Jamat-ul-dawa (they must be laughing at Indian bureaucracy)
7. India re-iterates the demand for Let chief, JEM chief and others involved in the attack to be handed over.
8.. Zardari saheb does a U-TURN , suddenly non pakistani terrorists transform to State less actors however after being put under house arrest they transform to respectable Pakistani citizens which cannot be handed over to GOI . .
9. Accha pie the way , what is noteworthy is while President of Pakistan and entire GOP all this time was unable to trace or apprehend Benazir Bhutto's assassins , these guys have managed to identity and even ostensibly banned the outfits responsible for Mumbai in a couple of day's notice. GODSPEED I should say.
10. PMO to countrymen: Mumbai is a brave city , we can withstand umpteen such attacks and yet go on with our daily routine , after all getting bombed and yet finding an excise for inaction is not something which every respectable and responsible wannabe world power can manage.
1. The day the attack took place , Zardari and Geelani said Attackers were not from Pakistan ,infact the possibility of Pakistan being origin of the attackers or the operation was out rightly denied.
2. MMS mumbles something which makes little sense as usual .
2. Day2-3 Zardari says this may be an act of state less entities (whatever that means ) .
3. Ajmal alias Kasab allegedly discloses his identity to IP, TOI and HINDU publish the story , Pak media understandably in denial , so is GOP.
4. Gaurdian publishes an independent account of Ajmal's origins and confirms he is from a place Faridkot in Pakistan.
5. Day or two ago even DAWN confirms the same DAWN
6. UN this time passes resolution to ban Jamat-ul-dawa (they must be laughing at Indian bureaucracy)
7. India re-iterates the demand for Let chief, JEM chief and others involved in the attack to be handed over.
8.. Zardari saheb does a U-TURN , suddenly non pakistani terrorists transform to State less actors however after being put under house arrest they transform to respectable Pakistani citizens which cannot be handed over to GOI . .
9. Accha pie the way , what is noteworthy is while President of Pakistan and entire GOP all this time was unable to trace or apprehend Benazir Bhutto's assassins , these guys have managed to identity and even ostensibly banned the outfits responsible for Mumbai in a couple of day's notice. GODSPEED I should say.
10. PMO to countrymen: Mumbai is a brave city , we can withstand umpteen such attacks and yet go on with our daily routine , after all getting bombed and yet finding an excise for inaction is not something which every respectable and responsible wannabe world power can manage.
Also, Zardari first said he will send ISI chief, then did a back flip and said only some babu of ISI will go to India. and soon enough he did a belly flop and said no ISI babu will go to India.
Should not surprise anyone that the Pakis take India and its might so lightly as can be seen from the GoI response(so far) of alternate demarches and bleats for a almost SF style ops with all paki citizens with possibly every kind of evidence implicating Pak thrown in(except a handwritten go-ahead note by Kiyani and Zardari).
I would assume that we are the laughing stock of the world for the impotence on show despite claims of "superpower", 3rd largest military etc.
) .