Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Dec 2008 10:33

I saw a news report of a black dog with a photo of Kerala CM in his mouth
today.

ajay_hk · Post by **ajay_hk** » 03 Dec 2008 10:44

Singha wrote:I saw a news report of a black dog with a photo of Kerala CM in his mouth
today.

Singha saar - this is the one u r referring to.

From CNN-IBN

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 03 Dec 2008 10:46

Its just an insult to the poor dog.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 03 Dec 2008 10:46

Gates confirmed that Mullen was en route to India after last week's series of terrorist attack in Mumbai, India.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/02/ ... index.html

nsa_tanay · Post by **nsa_tanay** » 03 Dec 2008 10:49

sum wrote:
Gerard wrote: And just why is information of this sort on RAW capabilities being published in the media?
Hi Gerard,which article were you quoting?

Gerard is quoting a report published in Hindusthan Times :--

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... en+stopped

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 03 Dec 2008 10:54

regarding india's sad state of affairs (1) and (2),

yes india is a poor country with limited resources and corrupt politicians.
yes india is a soft target and bears the brunt of repeated attacks
yes india tolerates many lives lost to terrorism, train accidents, car/truck accidents, and natural disasters

but,

it does not justify pakistani state sponsored terrorism which calls for killing innocent unarmed indians!

no matter how much anyone faults "slow response", "bad bullet-proof jackets", "failure of intelligence", whatever exasparated the sitation, the genesis of terrorism is what we are discussing, and satan pakistan needs to be taught a lesson for killing innocent indian men/women/ and children.

i hope by accident or by magic indian politicians will show enough spine this time to let loose some bombs, missiles, and torpedoes, that shows the world, enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!!!

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 03 Dec 2008 10:55

Zardari: No scums will be sent to India. If they have proof, then they will be tried in Paki courts.

Per ToI breaking news

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 03 Dec 2008 11:00

Read Somewhere after these attacks,That Maharashtra police spent 984 crores on Modernization but what they brought were premier luxury cars for higher officers.is it true?

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 03 Dec 2008 11:03

milindc wrote:Zardari: No scums will be sent to India. If they have proof, then they will be tried in Paki courts.

Per ToI breaking news

That is not breaking news!
He said that on CNN when Larry King interviewed him! These ********'s have no intention of nabbing and sending anyone
who are we kidding??

At one point in the interview by saying "Pakistan is no more sponsoring any terrorism"....and then immediately corrected his sentence.

So, in the past they have been using terrorism as a state police.....eh?

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 03 Dec 2008 11:07

when they haven't done that to US why will they do it to us ? US has been asking for AQ Khan, Mullah Omar, Al Zawhairi, OBL etc.. but no action on part of pakistan.

out of frustration they have resorted to drone strikes to remove ******** in that list. With all that military & economic clout that is all that they could get done. What will we do ?

if they hand over just one guy, he will take names of many others and those others will be all ex PMs, ex Presidents, ex Army Generals and also the present people in those posts.

We have to understand pakistani leadership of past present & future is #1 enemy of India. That is all that they have accomplished in their lives.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 03 Dec 2008 11:09

Do you think this is a good idea?

FBI and Israelis going to interrogate the only surviving pig!

http://broadband.indiatimes.com/toishow ... 787279.cms

(according to TOIlet)

AkshayM · Post by **AkshayM** » 03 Dec 2008 11:11

I have weird feeling on foreign agencies getting access to the terrorist. If ATS is conducting and controlling interrogation then it makes it even worse.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 03 Dec 2008 11:11

anishns wrote:Do you think this is a good idea?

FBI and Israelis going to interrogate the only surviving pig!

http://broadband.indiatimes.com/toishow ... 787279.cms

(according to TOIlet)

as long as they interrogate him in our presence.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 03 Dec 2008 11:26

anishns wrote:
milindc wrote:Zardari: No scums will be sent to India. If they have proof, then they will be tried in Paki courts.

Per ToI breaking news
That is not breaking news!
He said that on CNN when Larry King interviewed him! These ********'s have no intention of nabbing and sending anyone
who are we kidding??

At one point in the interview by saying "Pakistan is no more sponsoring any terrorism"....and then immediately corrected his sentence.

So, in the past they have been using terrorism as a state police.....eh?

I think he officially communicated that to GoI. TimesNow carrying it now.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 03 Dec 2008 11:38

a) any clues on the identity of slain terrorists.... photos..

b) i dont understand why nobody from the gov is clarifying that its not about wether PAk Gov is involved or not.. issue is wether pakis / pak based groups ( known to have links with PA) are behind this. in so many words.. and are we expecting to find a 'memo' or 'government order' from pak govt ordering terrorists for the mission??

c) a channel was showing programs from PTV and the conspiracy theories would make a hindi TV serial look silly !

d) i did not hear pranab dada say that mil option is ruled out?? did anybody catch that sound bite?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Dec 2008 11:41

he didnt rule it out completely also. Lot of wheels within wheels.

BTW Amrikan experts want to do something about TSP. See kagan.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 03 Dec 2008 11:42

Thanks for the informative post Sanjay.

I find the constant criticism of .303 to be unjustified. There are known shortcomings of the weapon: high recoil, excessive power, high weight and low rate of fire due to bolt action mechanism.

However, it is a potent weapon if the operator is trained for the job. The rifle can kill at long range with great Without training even MP5 or AK-47 will not suffice. So many of these cops were equipped with new build SLRs which are even better.

Constant ranting against the weapon can deflect our attention from the more pressing issue.

Sanjay wrote:Gentlemen, I have read and re-read what has been posted regarding the police.

Everyone and his cat is now an expert on Indian security services and the picture is distorted with some half-truths.

First of all - that piece about the 577 weapons is quite misleading. What that is about is the quantity of weapons "procured". It doesn't even say what year.

The same piece contradicts itself when it talks about the SRPF having SLRs - that's several thousand men armed with a reasonable rifle.

There have been very substantial infusions of modern weapons to the Indian police. Please read the MHA reports over the last few years. According to the 2005-2006 report, 71,717 INSAS, 23,899 SLRs and 34,880 AK-47s have been procured for the state police forces in the last few years.

Remember Punjab got 60,000 SLRs in the 1990s, Bihar ordered several thousand and the UP PAC has fully equipped 100 companies with the type.

52 companies of the PAC in UP were put through their paces by the army and several other forces confronting Naxalites have undertaken similar programs.

The article does make a very good point about firing practice. That's why none of the cops at CST hit anything. Those rifles do take some skill to use.

Even then progress has been made in the Naxal states where policemen have been sent back for re-training after failing to pass marksmanship and physical prowess tests.

Body armour used by CPMFs and the army has been combat tested. There should be no reason why substandard stuff should be passed on to the police.

It would appear, therefore, that emphasis has been placed on providing equipment and training to the forces facing naxalites (apart from those facing insurgencies) and on the India Reserve Battalions.

Training of these units is painfully slow owing to completely inadequate infrastructure.

Let's also face the fact that it is time to do away with the concept of the unarmed constable. Every policeman in urban India must now be armed. Revolvers and pistols would do just fine.

However there is absolutely no excuse for poorly maintained weapons. The fault there lies with the police themselves. Why is it that a reliable weapon like a Sterling carbine jammed after 3 rounds and why on earth was the magazine charged with only 10 rounds ? Weapons need to be maintained properly.

But weapons and practice aren't everything. The whole psychology of the police to face these attacks has to be changed. Can one really expect a constable who is to catch a thief to play Rambo and fight a terrorist ? Can one really expect policemen who are fundamentally civilians in uniform to be soldiers ?

Even the armed police battalions are really a gendarmarie rather than paramilitary units geared up for a fight. That may slowly be changing with the army training being imparted to some APBs but the whole psychology of these units needs to be altered.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 03 Dec 2008 11:43

Can we have a separate thread in Military forum ... there is too much noise in this one.

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 03 Dec 2008 11:45

Sumeet wrote:
anishns wrote:Do you think this is a good idea?

FBI and Israelis going to interrogate the only surviving pig!

http://broadband.indiatimes.com/toishow ... 787279.cms

(according to TOIlet)

as long as they interrogate him in our presence.

and separated by a glass wall. Don't want a rogue FBI or Israeli agent going bonkers and eating up the talking pig while he is still talking. Don't trust them too much.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Dec 2008 11:50

I got a telling statistic in TOI today.

the SPG protects PM, ex-PMs and The Gandhi Family. it is realtively tiny
compared to NSG. SPG budget is 180cr this yr, up from 110cr.

NSG protects 100s of politicians and also the 1.2 bil people. its budget
this year is 157cr down 1cr from last yr.

so when you see the secret service type cargo pants, hifi guns and ray ban shades on SPG people (pointed out in Aug15 photos) you know where its coming from.

when you see the one size helmets, trailing edge gear and shortcomings in NSG you again know why it is so.

"Rajmata" and the korrupt clique of ex-PMs sure take good care of themselves.

R_Kumar · Post by **R_Kumar** » 03 Dec 2008 11:53

Please watch the following video and listen to Arun Shourie about the failure to work on intelligence report.
He has lots of interesting facts. We need big change.
Are we too soft to fight terrorism?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Dec 2008 11:59

Just hear in an interview of Khan the founder of ATS on Sahara Mumbai , he went on to say the bullet proof vest the police currently use is the same type that they had bought in the 90's , with that vest they even have problem bending down and its very uncomfortable , these vest are just enough dealing with revolver type weapon used by gangs here in Mumbai ( perhaps in 90's they did , now even gangs here have AK 47 and Glock )

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 03 Dec 2008 12:10

porkis doing tit for tat
http://dailymailnews.com/200812/03/news/dmboxitem.html

India to taste its own medicine

—Islamabad to demand handing over of Most Wanted terrorists from Delhi
By Makhdoom Babar
Editor-in-Chief

ISLAMABAD—Islamabad has prepared a list of some 35 top terrorists, involved in a number of terror activities in Pakistan and is set to hand over the names to Delhi seeking an early arrest and handing over of the accused to Pakistan, The Daily Mails has learnt on good authority.
According to highly authentic sources, the list has been prepared by the Pakistan Foreign Office and the Ministry of Interior, with the assistance of police and intelligence authorities, in the backdrop of the investigations of different incidents of terrorism and sabotage in different parts of the country. The list was actually prepared many weeks ago but was not given to Indian authorities with the intentions of gearing up peace process. But, the sources say, now, after India has failed to handle the situation sensibly and has instead started asking Pakistan to hand over 20 so called Pakistanis, who it says are involved in numerous terror activities in India. Pakistan has decided to come up with a matching response and has decided to ask India to hand over at least 35 leading terrorists, who were found to be directly or indirectly involved in a number of terrorist activities in Pakistan.
It is learnt that Islamabad is also sending a copy of this list to Washington to bring it to the notice of US authorities and to clarify the actual state of affairs in the backdrop of the Indian allegations in this regard while it is also under consideration to release a detailed report in this direction for the consumption of anti-terror war allies.
According to the sources, list has been prepared after going through the reports of provincial CID departments, police records and intelligence reports and out comes of the investigations and interrogations, carried out by Police and Intelligence agencies. These reports suggest the persons nominated in the list of Most Wanted Indian are constantly engaged in different forms of terrorism against Pakistan and Pakistani nationals and unless these are handed over to Pakistan for trial in Pakistani courts. South Asian peace can not be ensured.
Indians, accused of direct or indirect involvement in terrorist activities against Pakistan, in said list are, (1) Ajay Verma, a Karnatika resident and directly involved in bomb blast at Sialkot in which 7 people were killed, (2) Manoj Shastri alias Javed Khan, resident of Mumbai, wanted for killing of 14 Namazees at a Karachi Mosque, (3) Raju Mukherjee, resident of Calcutta, wanted for bomb blast in Lahore in which 9 people were killed, (4) Mr. Bal Thackeray, resident of Bombay, Chief of Shiv Sena, wanted for organizing at least three major massacres in Pakistan in which some 33 people were killed and a highly active in organizing ethnic and sectarian clashes in different parts of Pakistan, (5) Vivek Khattri alias Kaala Pathaan, resident of Maharashtra, wanted for at least four bomb blasts in which over seventeen people were killed, (6) Ashok Vidyarthi alias Aslam resident of Ajmair Sharif, wanted for sniper shooting at an Imam baargah in Karachi, killing some 14 Shias, (7) Rajan Nikhalje alias Chhota Rajan, wanted for a number of terrorist attacks in different cities of Pakistan including a bomb blast in Sabzi Mandi Islamabad and a bomb blast in Quetta. Chhota Rajan is now launching terrorist operations in Pakistan from Indian Missions in Kandahar and Jalalabad (Afghanistan) and is head of RAW’s organized Crimes Wing or Special Operations Division (SOD), he is also wanted for killing of Chinese Engineers in Baluchistan and organizing the murder of some Chinese workers near Peshawar (Cool Asotosh Srivastava alias Maulvi Nazir alias Mulla, resident of Alahabad, wanted for firing on an imambargah in which 9 people were killed, (9) Ashok Dube alias Shah Jee, resident of Gandhi Nagar (New Delhi), wanted for killing some 11 Namazees in a Lahore Mosque, (10) Sanjive Joshi, resident of Bombay, wanted for comprehensive assistance in terror attack on a Christian Mission School near Murree, (11) Ramparkash alias Ranu alias Ali, resident of Hyderabad Daccan, wanted for terror attack on a Christian Hospital in Taxila (he is also identified as a graduate of Hindutva Brotherhood’s terror training camp, located near Sarojini Nagar), (12) Ramesh Verma, resident of Pune, wanted for terror attack in Sheikhupura, killing 7 innocent citizens (13) Bihari Mishra, wanted for organizing a number of terror attacks in Pakistan through his terrorists of Hindutva Brotherhood’s terrorist school, (14) Manoj Kulkarni, resident of Colkata, wanted for terror attack in Attok , killing 17, (15) Venkatash Raghwan, resident of Mahablaishwar, wanted for terror attacks in Rawalpindi, killing some 9 people, (16) Ajit Sahay, a former RAW Deputy Director, now attached with Chotta Rajan, wanted for organizing attack in Hyderabad (Sindh), (17) Ashok Vohra alias Nepali, wanted for printing fake Pakistani currency and spreading it worldwide, particularly in Nepal, UAE and UK and also organizing a terror attack in Gujranwala in which 8 people were killed, (18) Vijay Kapali alias Guru, resident of Maharashtra, wanted for terror attack on an AJK village, killing 13 of a family. He is also working for RAW’s cross border operations wing, (19) Vivek Santoshi, resident of Calcutta, wanted for organizing terror attack on some US citizens and killing them in Karachi, (20) Mohandas Sharma, resident of Patna, wanted for planning and executing terror attacks on foreign nationals in Pakistan at least on three occasions, (21) Ramgopal Soorati, resident of Soorat, wanted for terror attack in Jhelum, killing 9 through a bus blast on the highway, (22) Rakesh alias Kalia, resident of Bombay, wanted for terror attack in Kasur, (23) Parkash Santoshi, resident of Lucknow, wanted for terror attack on a religious gathering in Lahore, (24) Aman Verma alias Pappoo alias Gulloo, resident of Aagra, wanted for terror attack in Peshawar in which 11 people were killed, (25 Mohinder Parkash alias Yasin Khan alias Riaz Chitta, resident of Lucknow, wanted for organizing terror attacks in different parts of Sindh, (26) Ashish Jaithlee alias Shaikh alias Osama, resident of Bombay downtown, wanted for providing explosives to the terrorists who killed French engineers in Karachi and also to those who carried out Marriot bombing, these explosives were provided through Pak-Afghan border (27) Manohar Laal alias Peer Jee alias Ubu Khalid, resident of Gohaati, wanted for providing explosive devices for attack on Foreign Mission building in Karachi, (28) Ramnarayan alias Mufti, resident of New Delhi, wanted for providing huge consignments
Of automatic weapons to activists of banned Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and banned Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (29) Arun Shetty, resident of Bombay and wanted for bulk infiltration of explosives, arms and ammunition into Pakistan, (30) Nikhanj Laal, resident of Hurryana, wanted for terror attack in border city of Narowaal, killing seven people, (31) Sunil Verma alias Httyara, resident of Maharashtra, wanted for organizing terror attack on Daily the Nation’s office n Karachi, (32) Ashish Chowan, resident of New Delhi, wanted for supply of arms and assisting latest terror attacks in Quetta. Ashish is presently reported to be present in Indian Consulate of Kandahaar (Afghanistan) ,(33) Babloo Srivastva of Chhota Rajan gang for providing highly sophisticated weapons to a sectarian outfit in Pakistan and assisting in missile attacks on UN offices in Islamabad in year 2000, (34) Suresh, alias Aamir alias Akbar Khan wanted for providing weapons and explosives to militants in Wana and North Waziristan through Afghanistan and (35) Abu Bakkar, wanted for a number of terror attack in different parts of the country and now living in India with a new identification under the blessings of Indian spy agency RAW.
Surprisingly, name of former Indian Deputy Prime Minister Mr. L K Advani is not included in this list, though Advani is also wanted by Karachi Police for years and Pakistan has been asking India for his extradition to Islamabad.
It is learnt that many of the accused, included in the list are direct or indirect RAW operatives while a few belong to Hindutva Brotherhood terror network, though Hindutva establishment is also operating with full blessing and connivance of RAW. It is learnt that these names surfaced after the arrests of a different locally hired agents and militants who told the investigators during probes of different cases, about the whereabouts of these accused and are now ready to testify the same before any court. It is also learnt that Pakistani authorities later verified and counter checked the information, they obtained from local accused and passed on the details to the higher authorities after complete satisfaction. The sources say that the information, given to the top authorities in this regard is totally authentic and the evidences attached with the charge sheets of the accused in the list are undeniable and the Indians can not deny the charge sheets in presence of solid and substantive evidences annexed with the list.
It is learnt that when Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi was heading for New Delhi last month, it was considered that he may pass on the list to his Indian counter part, politely but latter the idea was deferred with intentions to enhance the peace process and to keep the atmosphere for talks harmonious and cordial but after the latest development on part of New Delhi, it has decided to serve Indians in the same plate.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 03 Dec 2008 12:18

NYT Oped author wonders:

After all, if 10 young Indians from a splinter wing of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party traveled by boat to Pakistan, shot up two hotels in Karachi and the central train station, killed at least 173 people, and then, for good measure, murdered the imam and his wife at a Saudi-financed mosque while they were cradling their 2-year-old son — purely because they were Sunni Muslims — where would we be today? The entire Muslim world would be aflame and in the streets.

From : Calling All Pakistanis

I think, whole column is worth posting in full;

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

On Feb. 6, 2006, three Pakistanis died in Peshawar and Lahore during violent street protests against Danish cartoons that had satirized the Prophet Muhammad. More such mass protests followed weeks later. When Pakistanis and other Muslims are willing to take to the streets, even suffer death, to protest an insulting cartoon published in Denmark, is it fair to ask: Who in the Muslim world, who in Pakistan, is ready to take to the streets to protest the mass murders of real people, not cartoon characters, right next door in Mumbai?

After all, if 10 young Indians from a splinter wing of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party traveled by boat to Pakistan, shot up two hotels in Karachi and the central train station, killed at least 173 people, and then, for good measure, murdered the imam and his wife at a Saudi-financed mosque while they were cradling their 2-year-old son — purely because they were Sunni Muslims — where would we be today? The entire Muslim world would be aflame and in the streets.

So what can we expect from Pakistan and the wider Muslim world after Mumbai? India says its interrogation of the surviving terrorist indicates that all 10 men come from the Pakistani port of Karachi, and at least one, if not all 10, were Pakistani nationals.

First of all, it seems to me that the Pakistani government, which is extremely weak to begin with, has been taking this mass murder very seriously, and, for now, no official connection between the terrorists and elements of the Pakistani security services has been uncovered.

At the same time, any reading of the Pakistani English-language press reveals Pakistani voices expressing real anguish and horror over this incident. Take for instance the Inter Press Service news agency article of Nov. 29 from Karachi: “ ‘I feel a great fear that [the Mumbai violence] will adversely affect Pakistan and India relations,’ the prominent Karachi-based feminist poet and writer Attiya Dawood told I.P.S. ‘I can’t say whether Pakistan is involved or not, but whoever is involved, it is not the ordinary people of Pakistan, like myself, or my daughters. We are with our Indian brothers and sisters in their pain and sorrow.’ ”

But while the Pakistani government’s sober response is important, and the sincere expressions of outrage by individual Pakistanis are critical, I am still hoping for more. I am still hoping — just once — for that mass demonstration of “ordinary people” against the Mumbai bombers, not for my sake, not for India’s sake, but for Pakistan’s sake.

Why? Because it takes a village. The best defense against this kind of murderous violence is to limit the pool of recruits, and the only way to do that is for the home society to isolate, condemn and denounce publicly and repeatedly the murderers — and not amplify, ignore, glorify, justify or “explain” their activities.

Sure, better intelligence is important. And, yes, better SWAT teams are critical to defeating the perpetrators quickly before they can do much damage. But at the end of the day, terrorists often are just acting on what they sense the majority really wants but doesn’t dare do or say. That is why the most powerful deterrent to their behavior is when the community as a whole says: “No more. What you have done in murdering defenseless men, women and children has brought shame on us and on you.”

Why should Pakistanis do that? Because you can’t have a healthy society that tolerates in any way its own sons going into a modern city, anywhere, and just murdering everyone in sight — including some 40 other Muslims — in a suicide-murder operation, without even bothering to leave a note. Because the act was their note, and destroying just to destroy was their goal. If you do that with enemies abroad, you will do that with enemies at home and destroy your own society in the process.

“I often make the comparison to Catholics during the pedophile priest scandal,” a Muslim woman friend wrote me. “Those Catholics that left the church or spoke out against the church were not trying to prove to anyone that they are anti-pedophile. Nor were they apologizing for Catholics, or trying to make the point that this is not Catholicism to the non-Catholic world. They spoke out because they wanted to influence the church. They wanted to fix a terrible problem” in their own religious community.

We know from the Danish cartoons affair that Pakistanis and other Muslims know how to mobilize quickly to express their heartfelt feelings, not just as individuals, but as a powerful collective. That is what is needed here.

Because, I repeat, this kind of murderous violence only stops when the village — all the good people in Pakistan, including the community elders and spiritual leaders who want a decent future for their country — declares, as a collective, that those who carry out such murders are shameful unbelievers who will not dance with virgins in heaven but burn in hell. And they do it with the same vehemence with which they denounce Danish cartoons.

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 03 Dec 2008 12:19

india must hand over the following terrorists to pakistan:

the names are encrypted so they won't know before they land in rawal's pindi
arun's dhoti roy
mom-ta benarjee
maida patker
karela CM
maha CM
mrs veerappam
ballu yadav
amir singh

and 3 more whose names i can not disclose for national security reasons

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Dec 2008 12:25

some noteable names in the media , some amirs of the militant sunni tanzeems here, a few names in lutyens delhi bungalows, amir singh, mulla yadav....

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 03 Dec 2008 12:26

guys have u gone through this site:

http://pgportal.gov.in/

nkumar · Post by **nkumar** » 03 Dec 2008 12:32

I don't know whether to cry or laugh at the response of jokers like MMS sitting in dilli. What's the point of sending demarches and asking for 20 most wanted from someone who has the audacity of carrying out such an attack? Diplomacy works when it is accompanied by overwhelming fear of force in situations like these. It makes sense for unkil to play diplomatic cards alone, not for us.

We need covert operations targeting TSPA elite, taking out terrorist camps in POK and jihadi sympathizers in India who get funding/support from porkis. Rest is all rona-dhona. Mouthing inanities like zero tolerance to terror is like playing a cruel joke on Indians, especially those who have lost their lives in dozens of terror attacks.

ajay_hk · Post by **ajay_hk** » 03 Dec 2008 12:37

Supreme sacrifice which led to the prized catch

Mumbai, PTI:
Promoted as Assistant Sub-Inspector, 48-year-old Tukaram Omble was one such braveheart. His is one of the many heroic stories that has emerged as the dust settles on the deadly terror strikes in Mumbai.

Those who live by the gun also die by its shadow. But there are a few who attain martyrdom and leave behind a legend to emulate and remember.

Recently promoted as Assistant Sub-Inspector, 48-year-old Tukaram Omble was one such braveheart.

His is one of the many heroic stories that has emerged as the dust settles on the deadly terror strikes in Mumbai.

Thanks to this daredevil, the police could arrest at least one terrorist alive, whom investigating agencies are now making sing.

Acting on a message received on his walkie-talkie on the night of November 26, Omble chased down two terrorists, armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles, as they headed towards Girgaum Chowpatty.

Meanwhile, the D B Nagar Police station team was setting up a ‘naka bandi’ at the Chowpatty signal after the message was circulated.

“We had barricaded the road at Girgaum Chowpatty soon after we received a message that two terrorists had hijacked a Skoda and were firing randomly in South Mumbai,” Assistant inspector Hemant Bavdhankar of D B Nagar Police station said.

“Moments later, we saw a car bearing the description slowing down at a distance of around 50 feet away from us. As the vehicle was trying to take a U-turn, it hit the road-divider,” he said.

The car then started drawing closer to the police and Mohammad Ajmal Amir Iman (the arrested terrorist) came out of the car and pretended to surrender, only to open fire seconds later.

Without caring for his life or the consequences, Ombale took Iman head on. He sprang towards the ultra and gripped the barrel of his AK-47 rifle with both hands.

With the barrel pointing towards the cop, Iman pulled the trigger. The brave policeman took all the bullets on himself.
Bullet-holed Ombale collapsed, but did not let go of Iman. Thus, he not only provided a perfect cover to his team, but also prevented Iman from firing at any one else and in turn saving many precious lives.

The other team members had, by then, killed the other terrorist Ismail. They now pounced on Iman and captured him.

Thanks to the valor and supreme sacrifice of this fearless cop, investigators are now unravelling the scale of the terror operation from Iman, who was an operative of Lashkar-e-Taiba for the last one-and-a-half years.

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 03 Dec 2008 12:45

how many landed (no one knows)
how many total (no one knows)
how many got killed (no one knows)
how many escaped (no one knows)
how many they killed (no one knows)

rahulranjan · Post by **rahulranjan** » 03 Dec 2008 12:48

from the interview to the CNN

" .....Pakistan and India, both nuclear powers, have a tense relationship and have fought three wars since the subcontinent was divided in 1947. On whether the Mumbai attacks could trigger a fourth war, Zardari said: "Larry, democracies don't go to war. All those wars you're talking about did not take place in any democracy. They all happened in the times of dictators. ..."

Zardari simply shows the kind of respect a typical pakistani have for thier rulers. This is really a difficult situation where we do not know who is calling the shots in pak.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 03 Dec 2008 12:49

Unless it was part of a strategy, the "Give me my top-20 goons" tactic is absolutely the worst thing to do right now.

You have the whole world agreeing that LeT is the culprit and needs to be destroyed. Keep the focus on LeT and make TSP publicly dismantle the Muridke estate and make them hand over LeT pigleaders to a joint FBI/ScotlandYard/Indian agency team for interrogation.

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 03 Dec 2008 12:56

Nitesh wrote:porkis doing tit for tat
http://dailymailnews.com/200812/03/news/dmboxitem.html

Wasn't this obvious, the moment our great spineless foreign minister in his infinite wisdom decided to give the Porkies a free pass by telling them "Nobody is talking about war"?

Our spineless leaders don't have the will to fight and defend the country. History repeats itself. First with disunited kings who lost their will to fight invaders from north-west thus heralding the beginning of almost 800 years of glorious Islamic rule in India (and oh no, I wouldn't dare to call Islamic rule in India anything but glorious since that is what we have been taught in our history books in school). And now with bickering politicians (who are more interested in insulting families of solders who do defend the country and debating which goon gets to take over as CM of Maharashtra).

Once again, and barely into 60 years or self-rule our spineless leaders have lost the will to fight back. So Mr. terrorist, you are welcome here. Please come in and terrorize us as much as you can, because you can be rest assured that our government won't allow its law abiding citizens to bear arms for self-defense and at the same time won't fight back despite multiple bombings across our cities, embassies, and now an outright act of war in Mumbai where you destroyed the Taj Hotel which by the way is more of a monument to our independence struggle (not just from 200 years of British rule, but also from 800 years of Islamic rule that preceded it) rather than a hotel. Do take red fort next and impose Shariat law in India. And oh no, how can I ever have a problem with Shariat Law after all we have all seen it in action in Pakistan and Afghanistan and being secular I dare not do anything but welcome Shariat law with open arms.

nkumar · Post by **nkumar** » 03 Dec 2008 12:57

Agencies squabble
Now this is very disturbing. Jaitley is not the kind of guy who will falsely build up his case.

“We have seen politicians getting into blame game. But it is perhaps for the first time that intelligence, security and other agencies of the country are squabbling to fix the responsibility on others over the Mumbai terror strike,” BJP general secretary Arun Jaitley told mediapersons here on Tuesday.

According to him, it was the hunt for a scapegoat that was leading to the civil war-like situation in the Government with every vulnerable section seeking to save its skin. The nation, he maintained, was now witnessing a blame game between the National Security Adviser, Intelligence Bureau, Indian Navy and the Research & Analysis Wing to an extent that they were using newspaper columns to exonerate themselves and fix the responsibility on others.

The main Opposition party said the state of country’s security system was on the verge of collapse and the moral authority of the Prime Minister’s Office was getting eroded.

“The entire edifice of the intelligence agencies was cracking and the element of distrust was building up. If political authority is weakened, there will be no one to put these warring agencies back on the track. The Prime Minister must take note of this situation,” Jaitley suggested.

amit · Post by **amit** » 03 Dec 2008 13:45

Insider whiff in Taj attack

Richard Saldanha, the executive director of US private equity giant Blackstone’s India unit, said his car was never allowed till the porch of the hotel. “We had to get down on the road and walk through all the metal detectors. The security levels were really high. I went there about four days before the incident. And all the barricades had been removed,” he said.

A regular at the Taj, where Blackstone had an office, Saldanha now stays at the Trident because it’s just across the Blackstone local headquarters at Express Towers in Nariman Point. He termed the removal of the barricades that have always been at the hotel “interesting”.

Blackstone India’s chairman Akhil Gupta is a regular at the Taj gym. And he too found it strange that the security had been downscaled. “I was angry with them for frisking me all the time. But they stopped frisking about six days before the incident,” he said.

“It is impossible for a group of terrorists to carry the ammunition required to fight for 40 hours in a backpack. They had surely set up a base inside the hotels,” said one official. Also, the terrorists or their allies could have been present inside the hotels during the attacks. And the manner in which the terrorists went about killing people and fighting security forces is unlike the LeT.

“To withstand the pressure from security forces and minding their business without bothering about hostages shows a different kind of training. There should be a reason for the terrorists to select Nariman House, where there were several Israelis,” the official said. “LeT modules usually trigger an explosion and vanish. These guys fought for almost 40 hours knowing that they would eventually be gunned down.”

I think this is one aspect of the whole incident that's being ignored. While the pigs did come from the sea without anyone knowing, it's virtually impossible for them to fight for so long - and if I'm not mistaken it's not 40 hours, it's more like 60 hours - just with ammo from their backpacks.

I'm also beginning to wonder if there were two types of terrorists in action.

One the regular poor Abdul turned terrorist like the girlie pig we captured - tasked with the relatively easy task of gunning down people on the roads and possibly escaping; there are press reports that the girlie pig was offered RS96,000 or some such figure and would only make sense if he expected to get back and get a chance to spend it. That would also explain the 5 allegedly missing pigs.

The others, who went to the hotels and Nariman House on what was clearly a suicide mission could be regular Paki commandos - a sort of Kargil redux if you will? That would make sense if you think that the whole objective of ISI/Pak Army was to sufficiently prick India into framing a military response aka Parakram which would give a great excuse to move troops from FATA. And I'm sure the Paki Army is jehadised enough to get a group of well-trained commandos to go on a mission to Kuffir land as a short cut to their 72 virgin goats.

That would also explain how they held out for so long.

JMT and all such disclaimers.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 03 Dec 2008 14:14

amit .. not so sure... even in kashmir the encounters often last for more than 24 -48 hours in semi kuccha built up type + no hostages situation.. how long did the recent jammu encounter last??

i think the nature of taj mahal hotel + familiarity of pigs with it + non familiarity of NSG with it + caution wrt hostages+ delay in bringing NSG at the spot...all contributed to delay in ops... IMHO..

amit · Post by **amit** » 03 Dec 2008 14:18

manjgu wrote:amit .. not so sure... even in kashmir the encounters often last for more than 24 -48 hours in semi kuccha built up type + no hostages situation.. how long did the recent jammu encounter last??

i think the nature of taj mahal hotel + familiarity of pigs with it + non familiarity of NSG with it + caution wrt hostages+ delay in bringing NSG at the spot...all contributed to delay in ops... IMHO..

You could be right. However, I think there's crucial difference between J&K encounters and this one. And that is the number of troops involved. 200 NSG plus other defence/police personnel against at the most 10 terrorists, yet it took 60 hours. That does show a very high level of survival skills of the piglets, something which I think is a bit odd for an average Abdul looking for his 72 virgins. However, it could also mean that LeT and other outfits have had a qualitative improvement in their training facilities and instructors and that would be bad news not only for India but also the entire Western world.

One point that caught my eye in the DNA report and is something that I've been thinking about for the past few days. That is the pigs could have killed far more hostages than they eventually did. Do remember that they had a couple of hours before the real fighting started. Yet they seemed more interested in preparing for the real fight with the NSG. And prepare they must have by making ammunition dumps etc.

But one things for sure, I wouldn't put it past ISI sending regular commandos on suicide mission inside India. That's an act of War, something everyone else, excepting our loved Netas will realise.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Dec 2008 14:19

quite possible. and probable imo. they seemed to use grenades like water and some kind of incendiary devices to set room fires at will.
and moved around in the maze like they had lived there for years.
was the marcos team deliberately denied maps to render them ineffective
in the initial hours? questions and more questions.

without GOI opening up inventory on what was recovered inside, we can only guess.

the Taj being left defenceless six days before the attack points to traitors in the highest levels of GOI and MH.

as Kobe posted till now there is no credible source in GOI saying
how many came ashore, how many were inside and how many got killed. everyone is pursueing their own agenda and nobody is looking after the original agenda - national security.

spider sensors are starting to pickup nasty readings here...why the obvious lies? why the confusion about how many were inside? and why the false reports of 3+ captured alive? and the two pigs coming out of the hospital just happened to run into the two biggest ATS targets?

all is not well in the forest. we could have been set up and betrayed at multiple levels. i.e. someone initially did the double-cross, and then opportunists and failures piled on to use that as a stalking horse

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 03 Dec 2008 14:23

Guys,

There was firing incident in Hyderabad in last 45 minutes. 5 cops in civil clothes were following 4 individuals. As soon as they reached a local hardware shop, the cops proceeded to arrest these individuals. One person opened fire and two police constables were hurt. One is battling for his life.

This has hit to very close to my parents home. The incident spot is about 200m from my parent's apartment.
Hope they catch scum.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Dec 2008 14:25

probably purchasing nails and ball bearings for the next bomb attack.