Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Singha
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Singha » 09 Jan 2009 13:33

Auuuu Auuuuu 8)

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby kobe » 09 Jan 2009 13:47

israel is all out with PR campaigns as it continues bombing mosques and schools.

israeli deputy counsel general was interviewed on news program "world focus" on PBS. and asked why israel killed civilians at the UN school.

reply was: two terrorists were firing at us from that school and israeli forces returned fire. Asked why civilian casualty was not taken into account. reply was: if terrorists know they can hide among the civilians, then every mosque and kindergarden in the world will become a terrorist hideout.

(i hope israel never stops pounding the gaza terrorists, i just feel sweet revenge for the mumbai killings in all of this)

Mr. Manmohan Singh, please learn something, hit out at the "western neighbor" NOW!

Which part of "K-i-L-L" you don't understand?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Raja Ram » 09 Jan 2009 14:37

If indeed the {content sent to admins for review}
Last edited by enqyoob on 09 Jan 2009 16:23, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Posting personal details of immediate family of security officer

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby hnair » 09 Jan 2009 15:04

A call for leniency by the widow and daughter of a police officer who fought and fell for the country does not mean the Indian state will show any.

People should stop dissing that family. They are entitled to an opinion and I believe they earned it more than the Thackeray clan. So Lahori madarssa or not, even their dog is to be treated with respect. I am no fan of the current govt, its powers be or the Malegoan investigations. But the Karkare family in a way has shown the difference between a Texan family watching a person being electri-fried or slow poisoned by the state for the sake of "closure" and an Indian one. And equating her with scum like Omar Sheikh is unseemly under the circumstances.

Kasab has done horrific damage. But it will damage us even more if he is not given a full trial under Indian penal system with defense lawyer et al. His trial (elongated, preferably) and drama surrounding it will keep the issue of Paki terror on the front pages of most of world news. The transcripts of his calls will keep coming up along with newer unclassified evidence of "Major-Generals".

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Singha » 09 Jan 2009 15:07

islam sees weakness and fear in leniency. they are very un-lenient with their own flock.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby tripathi » 09 Jan 2009 15:07

our jalebi mrs.marvi memon (changed to memon for fux sake, not menon - JE Menon :eek: ) has graduated from binori school of goat-rearing.but see how she spew out bile even u say word india or hindu.

I must be reminded of the 2 yr old child the kasab shot at cst in cold blooded manner and of the many others who have died because idiots like these posted critical information on the internet to help the Paki terrorists, but STILL DON'T LEARN NOT TO DO THAT. that child deserved life more than 21 scum kasab.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby hnair » 09 Jan 2009 15:27

Singha, I dont have any difference of opinion on that, but I am saying let us leave that particular family alone. I am not saying we support them as we supported Maj Sandeep's most splendid dad when he verbally slapped the Kerala CM. Just that we dont equate them with paki terrorists and their hags.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Raju » 09 Jan 2009 16:02

Is this a joke ?
his UN posting was somewhere in Europe. When appointed ATS chief he had to return from his Europe UN deputation.
Last edited by Raju on 09 Jan 2009 16:30, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby enqyoob » 09 Jan 2009 16:07

I agree completely with hnair, and point out that the request to stop making asinine comments about the bereaved families of security personnel is so basic in its call on decency as to warrant no further comment. In case of postors couldn't figure this out for themselves, the request was made very very very clearly by several people incl. moderators some days ago.

Just my views as a postor.

In the case of the particular postor, I don't want to deny other mods the pleasure of dealing with the above, repeated yet again. Let them :rotfl: at the contortions and tantrums and long :(( :(( :(( to the webmaster that usually follow, for a change.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby p_saggu » 09 Jan 2009 17:25

GUL: President Ishaq Khan, who succeeded Zia ul-Haq after his plane was blown out of the sky, wanted to appoint me chief of staff, the highest position in the Pakistani army. The U.S., which by then had clipped ISI's wings, also blocked my promotion by informing the president I was unacceptable. So I was moved to a corps commander position. As ISI director, I held the whole Mujahideen movement in the palm of my hands. We were all pro-American. But then America left us in the lurch and everything went to pieces, including Afghanistan.


WOW! So this is why OBL turned against the US.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby enqyoob » 09 Jan 2009 18:23

Of course, it was all because they didn't give KASHMIR to TSP :(( :(( OBL's beef was that kufr non-houris esp. from the Great Satan were strutting around KSA in their underwear instead of shuttlecock burquas, with their ankles exposed all the way to their hips. MAJOR mijjile-control problems for the Faithful.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby shiv » 09 Jan 2009 18:52

chetak wrote:Thackeray has a point.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/148754/No-I ... keray.html

No Indian should demand pardon for Kasab: Thackeray

T N Raghunatha | Mumbai

Taking an exception to the sympathetic attitude adopted towards the Pakistani terrorist Mohammed Ajmal Mohammed Amir Iman alias Kasab by the slain ATS chief Hemant Karkare's wife and her younger daughter, Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray on Thursday said that no Indian should take a stand that Kasab be pardoned and given opportunity to reform himself.”


Who the hell is Thackray to say what stand every Indian should take.

The last "stand" that I recall Thackray taking was from my boyhood when he said "No South Indian should be allowed in Maharasthra"

Who the hell is this guy to make such a demand? He has changed his colors quite a lot. If he made a mistake in the 60s - why not assume that a widow in mourning may be saying things that she might not normally have said. Let her be. Give her a break. If Thackray cannot allow others to be human, he should not expect to be let off for his idiocy. Read "Maximum City" to check what D company says about Bal Thackray.

Pthoo. Someone remove this news item from the forum.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby enqyoob » 09 Jan 2009 20:17

Every time an Indian terror victim's relative shows the grit to make a statement that even acknowledges Pakis as being sort-of related to the species homo sapiens, it is another kick in the teeth of the Pakis and everything their terrorist slum and their bigoted creed stand for.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby John Snow » 09 Jan 2009 20:29

I would put it this way

1) Living relatives of the terror victims have the right to forgive the culprits.

2) The people of India have the right to pardon the terrorists.

But the most important is

3) The Law of the Land must administer Justice quickly and punish the guilty to the maximum extent.


1 & 2 make good PR and sound bites when done the right way.

3 When done right and swiftly will put the fear of consequence of terror and will enable the terrorists to be quickly burdended with polyandry. As many are already sharing the 72 Non Virginias.. :mrgreen:

(thanks to Israel, I am told that wait for turn with virgins is very long and frustrating :(( )

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby NRao » 09 Jan 2009 20:44

JS,

IF I may, a (BIG) contributing factor, to the problem, is a corrupt leadership that is supported by a weak and meek society. IMHO, the problem is slowly moving to the society. IF the society does not act then India - also - will need a UNSC to step in and provide (unnecessary) direction.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby anupmisra » 09 Jan 2009 21:57

On the topic of the Thackerays and pukistan, Raj has finally found something to do

Pakistani authors wanted off Mumbai bookshelves

Members of Maharashtra Navanirman Sena (MNS), a right-wing political party, burn music disks of Pakistani artists during a protest against Pakistan government in Mumbai.


In the latest reaction against Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks, Raj Thackeray, leader of the rightwing Hindu party, Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS), has asked bookstores to remove the work of Pakistani authors.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Lalmohan » 09 Jan 2009 22:51

i wonder why rajbhai chattrapati thackeray doesn't do something useful like take on dawood?
(i know, its all about maal distribution, but hey... its got to be asked)

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby RayC » 09 Jan 2009 23:01

Asking that a criminal be pardoned, does not mean that law and justice will not run its full course. In the Shariat, I believe, the aggrieved family can pardon a criminal, but not so in the modern legal system.

I presume it does, however, shows how magnanimous we Indians are, be it Priyanka Gandhi's visit to the woman who was involved in her father's assassination or Karkare's family. It also makes the criminals who perpetuated the crime appear real low, including their handlers, who are state and non state actors.

As far as these comical House of the Thackery is concerned, they have run out of steam and have been proved that Mumbai was saved by a large posse of non Maharastrians, along with Mumbai folks too, and that Mumbai was not a non Indian soil ruled by the Thackerays.

Where were the Thackerays when Mumbai was ravaged. Hiding in the fortified basement of the fortress?

I am yet to see such a demented family.

Pray for their salvation!

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby sudeepj » 10 Jan 2009 00:34

http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/09mumterror-ombles-daughter-wants-kasab-to-be-hanged-at-gateway.htm

Hang Kasab at Gateway, says brave cop Omble's daughter

Ajmal Amir Kasab [Images], the lone surviving terrorist in the Mumbai [Images] carnage, should be hanged at the Gateway of India [Images] to pay a "real tribute" to the martyrs killed while saving lives during the terrorist attacks, daughter of a slain constable has demanded.

"It would be insulting to our martyrs if Ajmal is let off on humanitarian grounds without any punishment," Vaishali, daughter of Tukaram Ombale who was killed during the terror siege, said in an interview to Shiv Sena mouthpiece Saamna on Friday.

"Why should he not get punished while my father died fighting Ajmal without thinking about the family?" she asked.

Vaishali also rubbished the arguments about Ajmal being young and, therefore, should not be punished. She said the terrorists have killed nearly 200 innocent people, including 16 policemen.

"In fact, not punishing Ajmal would encourage the terrorist organisations to send even younger ones in the age bracket of 15-16 years with guns to kill more Hindus," she said.


Families of martyrs hold diverse opinions like everybody else in India. At the same time, their views are sometimes exploited and given a lot of prominence by politicians and media babus to give their own positions an amount of sanctity that they otherwise would not have. Afterall, who would want to go up against the widow or a daughter of a public official who lay down his/her life in service of the state?

Hence, BalaSahib's Saamna quotes young Ms. Omble while the ELM quotes Mrs Karkare. Personal likes and dislikes apart, both represent entrenched political opinions in need of new 'converts', in need of 'protecting their flock' and about which many people are justifiably cynical.

An example of how family members are used is very visible in the US in the example of Cindy Sheehan, mother of a US soldier killed in Iraq. For a couple of years (up until it wasnt obvious that the surge was working) every anti war politician put her up front to brow beat and shut up any and all kinds of people, at least some of whom were simply discharging their duties as functionaries of the same state that her son had laid down for. Once they realized that she could not controlled and in that the surge in Iraq was working, she was dropped like a hot potato. Where she was addressing rallies of thousands of people, she was reduced to holding picket signs with one or two supporters outside public events!

Indians should be careful in ensuring that the grief of their martyrs families is not used against them, by people who want to break the will of the Indian public to forcefully resist the Islamist war of conquest against India.

Its fine if the families want to get into the field of moulding public opinion but they should be given at least some sort of briefing to ensure that their feelings of loss, grief and their process of coping with their personal catastrophe is not used by media wallahs and politicians.

Having said that, if they do get into the business of moulding public opinion (they run for office of some kind, they give frequent and vehement public interviews, they join some NGO with a specific policy agenda) what they say, how they say it and IMO, even the conduct of their departed family folks is fair game for adverse comment - just like any other Indian aspiring to have a public life.

So far, IMO, neither the brave and young Ms Omble, nor Mrs Karkare have crossed this threshold. Lets just treat their opinions with a little respect..

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby sudeepj » 10 Jan 2009 00:46

RayC wrote:As far as these comical House of the Thackery is concerned, they have run out of steam and have been proved that Mumbai was saved by a large posse of non Maharastrians, along with Mumbai folks too, and that Mumbai was not a non Indian soil ruled by the Thackerays.

Where were the Thackerays when Mumbai was ravaged. Hiding in the fortified basement of the fortress?

I am yet to see such a demented family.

Pray for their salvation!


They put together an organization that performed work that should have been done by the government.

The local Shiv Sena Shakha were the 'first responders' at Nariman House. They evacuated some people from neighbouring buildings, performed crowd control, briefed the NSG about the situation, arranged for food for the evacuees and the NSG.

Please go through an earlier post I made in this thread for more details.
http://specials.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/07slide1-a-account-from-nariman-house.htm

This is not to say that I support the 'Maharashtra for Maharashtrians' campaign of Thackereys, its just a statement of fact. Like it or not, their politics is very much a part and parcel of India and is not something thats exclusive of what was attacked in Mumbai.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Vikramaditya » 10 Jan 2009 01:17

RayC wrote:Asking that a criminal be pardoned, does not mean that law and justice will not run its full course. In the Shariat, I believe, the aggrieved family can pardon a criminal, but not so in the modern legal system.

I presume it does, however, shows how magnanimous we Indians are, be it Priyanka Gandhi's visit to the woman who was involved in her father's assassination or Karkare's family. It also makes the criminals who perpetuated the crime appear real low, including their handlers, who are state and non state actors.

As far as these comical House of the Thackery is concerned, they have run out of steam and have been proved that Mumbai was saved by a large posse of non Maharastrians, along with Mumbai folks too, and that Mumbai was not a non Indian soil ruled by the Thackerays.

Where were the Thackerays when Mumbai was ravaged. Hiding in the fortified basement of the fortress?

I am yet to see such a demented family.

Pray for their salvation!


Rayji, the Thackerays and other Vigilante lot might have a lot of faults in them but the main reason for their existence is the unfettered and utterly shameless appeasement of Muslims by Congress that stretches back to more than 100 yrs. Deal with the root cause and the by-products will go away.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby RayC » 10 Jan 2009 01:26

Vikramaditya wrote:
RayC wrote:Asking that a criminal be pardoned, does not mean that law and justice will not run its full course. In the Shariat, I believe, the aggrieved family can pardon a criminal, but not so in the modern legal system.

I presume it does, however, shows how magnanimous we Indians are, be it Priyanka Gandhi's visit to the woman who was involved in her father's assassination or Karkare's family. It also makes the criminals who perpetuated the crime appear real low, including their handlers, who are state and non state actors.

As far as these comical House of the Thackery is concerned, they have run out of steam and have been proved that Mumbai was saved by a large posse of non Maharastrians, along with Mumbai folks too, and that Mumbai was not a non Indian soil ruled by the Thackerays.

Where were the Thackerays when Mumbai was ravaged. Hiding in the fortified basement of the fortress?

I am yet to see such a demented family.

Pray for their salvation!


Rayji, the Thackerays and other Vigilante lot might have a lot of faults in them but the main reason for their existence is the unfettered and utterly shameless appeasement of Muslims by Congress that stretches back to more than 100 yrs. Deal with the root cause and the by-products will go away.


Maybe.

Why against Indians who live in Bombay?

Calcutta was the commercial capital before Bombay, till that great world's first environmentalist, idiot Jyoto Basu ensured that Calcutta and WB could do well without industries and slums which Bombay inherited.

But then, good for that idiot Jyoto Basu, he did not take the Bengal for Bengalis line!

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby chetak » 10 Jan 2009 02:09

shiv wrote:
chetak wrote:Thackeray has a point.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/148754/No-I ... keray.html

No Indian should demand pardon for Kasab: Thackeray

T N Raghunatha | Mumbai

Taking an exception to the sympathetic attitude adopted towards the Pakistani terrorist Mohammed Ajmal Mohammed Amir Iman alias Kasab by the slain ATS chief Hemant Karkare's wife and her younger daughter, Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray on Thursday said that no Indian should take a stand that Kasab be pardoned and given opportunity to reform himself.”


Who the hell is Thackray to say what stand every Indian should take.

The last "stand" that I recall Thackray taking was from my boyhood when he said "No South Indian should be allowed in Maharasthra"

Who the hell is this guy to make such a demand? He has changed his colors quite a lot. If he made a mistake in the 60s - why not assume that a widow in mourning may be saying things that she might not normally have said. Let her be. Give her a break. If Thackray cannot allow others to be human, he should not expect to be let off for his idiocy. Read "Maximum City" to check what D company says about Bal Thackray.

Pthoo. Someone remove this news item from the forum.


Shiv ji,
Why are we so obsessed with forgiveness?
Many other policemen also died. I didn't see their families shooting off their mouths about forgiveness.
Because we have forgiven over thousands of years we now find ourselves pissed on by the rest of the world.
The jews were like us once but look at them now. Six, seven hundred dead and counting!
In this case, Thackray has said what many wanted to say but were too decent to say it.
Thackray is a loudmouth and a bully but even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day.
At the risk of taking a very unpopular view, I find myself unable to appreciate what Hemant Karkare did during his Malegaon investigations.His unsubstantiated conclusions are being quoted as the gospel by none less than the paki govt.
And he brought great institutions in India to international disrepute.
For all the seasoned professional that he was, he seems to have made a lot of rookie mistakes in his final hours that ultimately cost him his life.
His wife has also held forth on the truth of his Malegaon investigations.
Sad in more ways than one.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby John Snow » 10 Jan 2009 02:22

Its always
Vanity (af) fair
with
(B or R) Thackery
:mrgreen:

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby enqyoob » 10 Jan 2009 02:53

chetak, pls check into the stories of the "last hours" of Mr. Karkare. It becomes quite clear that he was in a very serious disagreement with the Maharashtra government, but he was also a "good soldier" and was trying to avoid open conflict with his superiors. The extreme discomfort with the illegal/corrupt orders that he was getting, was becoming very evident. He WAS citing extreme political pressure in the Malegaon investigation, which means political pressure coming from the government.

People who have known Mr. Karkare closely over the years, reject outright the notion that he would have done anything crooked. But perhaps he can be faulted for not publicly rejecting the political pressure, though this would immediately have cost him his career, with little time left before an honourable retirement.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the Malegaon investigation, and Mr. Karkare was indeed head of the ATS, and the ATS was conducting a "slander by media" campaign instead of doing proper investigation. But beyond that, Karkare's fault may have been in not cracking down on his own organization and not resisting the political pressure.

The one thing that lends credence to the Antulay question is that the Maharashtra govt had strong reason to want to see Mr. Karkare dead, and they are probably vicious enough to have tried to make that happen.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Rahul M » 10 Jan 2009 03:05

His wife has also held forth on the truth of his Malegaon investigations.

chetak ji, care to elaborate ?
thanks.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby chetak » 10 Jan 2009 03:38

narayanan wrote:chetak, pls check into the stories of the "last hours" of Mr. Karkare. It becomes quite clear that he was in a very serious disagreement with the Maharashtra government, but he was also a "good soldier" and was trying to avoid open conflict with his superiors. The extreme discomfort with the illegal/corrupt orders that he was getting, was becoming very evident. He WAS citing extreme political pressure in the Malegaon investigation, which means political pressure coming from the government.

People who have known Mr. Karkare closely over the years, reject outright the notion that he would have done anything crooked. But perhaps he can be faulted for not publicly rejecting the political pressure, though this would immediately have cost him his career, with little time left before an honourable retirement.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the Malegaon investigation, and Mr. Karkare was indeed head of the ATS, and the ATS was conducting a "slander by media" campaign instead of doing proper investigation. But beyond that, Karkare's fault may have been in not cracking down on his own organization and not resisting the political pressure.

The one thing that lends credence to the Antulay question is that the Maharashtra govt had strong reason to want to see Mr. Karkare dead, and they are probably vicious enough to have tried to make that happen.


narayanan ji,

His death was a very tragic and needless accident. Wrong place at the wrong time.
The last thing I remember of Hemant Karkare was a TV image of him amateurishly putting on a BPJ.
He appeared very preoccupied and probably did not have the correct inputs to assess the gravity of the situation.
That he still went ahead is the tragic part.
The bloody stupid public prosecutor in the malegaon case linking the samjautha express blast to Purohit and immediately taking it back in the very next breath was UNFORGIVABLE.
The hyperventilating and orgasmic DDM tv channels had already broadcast it to the world. The damage was already done. Major discussion has ensued over this in paki blogs and society. This linkage is being made worldwide by interested elements much to our detriment. Its being thrown back in our faces by retired isi types holding forth on our DDM tv channels.
Hemant Karkare let it happen. Who else was firing the gun from his shoulder is not known to me but the name of a powerful non congress maharashtrian politician and central minister is doing the rounds. This scum has connections to dawood.
At the end of the day, if you are the boss you have to take the hit for your teams actions, literally, as it turned out, in Hemant Karkare's case.
Further,some family members openly expressing sympathy for kasab without considering the national loss and the close to two hundred dead was just not acceptable, IMHO.
The entire country was deeply wounded after the attack. It astounded many that such sympathy was being offered to kasab.
Nowhere was the innocent and murdered dead mentioned.
Last edited by chetak on 10 Jan 2009 04:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby chetak » 10 Jan 2009 04:11

Rahul M wrote:
His wife has also held forth on the truth of his Malegaon investigations.

chetak ji, care to elaborate ?
thanks.


Rahul M ji,

I saw her on TV saying that her husband was on the right track regarding the malegaon investigations and how he was just doing his duty and that he was not under any political pressure etc.
She also said that her husband was lucky to have such a rare death or something to that effect. and how very few people had the opportunity for this rare death.
While I feel for her, her family and her loss, IMHO she could have held off going to the press.
Her education, socio economic status and family background cushion the cruel blow of fate in a way that perhaps the families of the slain constables and some other officers are less fortunate.
As Hemant Karkare's widow, she had the responsibility to to boost the morale of the other bereaved families and comfort them instead of getting involved in needless controversies and expressing sympathy for the murderer.
Her mentioning malegaon has added fuel to the many conspiracy theories doing the rounds and the urdu press has already picked up on it as they have in pakiland.
I fully respect her right to free speech but how I wish that she had shown some restraint in the midst of this colossal tragedy.
Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Gerard » 10 Jan 2009 04:24

Meanwhile in massa-land...

NYPD Wants to Jam Cell Phones During Terror Attack
For now, Kelly said, the NYPD is taking a whole range of measures to stop another Mumbai-style spree -- from working with private businesses to interdicting boats to training recruits in heavy weapons to installing a spycam network across downtown Manhattan.

But Charles Allen, the Department of Homeland Security's top intelligence official, confessed to the Senate panel that "response to a similar terrorist attack in a major U.S. urban city would be complicated and difficult."
The chaos the attacks created magnified the difficulty of mounting an appropriate response. First responders, in order to deal with such a crisis, must first and foremost have adequate information on what is occurring as well as the capability to mount a rapid and effective response that minimizes the impact of the attack. In Mumbai it was not immediately clear to authorities whether there were multiple attack groups or a single group. The attackers were able to exploit the initial confusion because of the indiscriminate firings to move on to new targets. While preparedness training for this type of attack may not have prevented it, the effects likely could have been mitigated and reduced if authorities had been prepared and had exercised responses to terrorist attacks across all levels of government. Within the United States, our national exercises incorporate not only federal interagency participants, but also include regional, state, and local authorities, in order to identify potential gaps in our responses.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby ramana » 10 Jan 2009 04:24

Thanks. However in your zeal you sound like Antulloo who was making the case that Hk was bumped off by the establishment while the reality was he was ambushed by Kasab and Ismail Khan.

So no more oK?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby putnanja » 10 Jan 2009 04:26

Sharing of material helped nail Pakistan’s denial

Sharing of material helped nail Pakistan’s denial

Sandeep Dikshit

‘In all cases, all actionable leads were destroyed. This is the so-called cooperation we received so far’

NEW DELHI: A day after the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) wrapped up briefing the envoys here, India feels it has “nailed” Pakistan’s policy of denial and prevented Islamabad’s efforts to “hyphenate” the victims and perpetrators of terror.

Diplomatic sources said External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee had finished writing to 184 counterparts, detailing the links between elements in Pakistan and terrorists behind the Mumbai attack. The MEA also shared the material about the terror strikes with over 130 heads of mission.

“This has dealt with one of their excuses — that they don’t have evidence — although it defies imagination why they would need material because after all, the Lashkar-e-Taiba was their creation. By sharing this material with everyone, we have nailed their denial,” said the sources.

Although Pakistan has promised to examine the material, the sources were sceptical whether it would travel down the road of booking the masterminds of the attack on the strength of its past actions in similar cases of terror attacks.

India had handed material related to Pakistan’s involvement in terror strikes at least 10 times. Evidence was presented four times at the joint anti-terror meetings; once at the Foreign Secretary level talks and five times during Home Secretary level meeting. “The result? In all cases, all actionable leads were obliterated. This is the so-called cooperation we received so far,” said the sources.

Pakistan Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani promised Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in Colombo last August that the Kabul Embassy suicide attack would be investigated.

“We are still waiting for details from their so called investigations,” said the sources while dismissing Islamabad’s offer of a joint probe as a “cheeky exercise in futility given their track record.” They referred to Mr. Mukherjee’s observation about the state of the criminal justice system in Pakistan which could not investigate Benazir Bhutto’s assassination and had to seek the help of the United Nations.

“This same set-up is talking of joint investigations. This is nothing but another attempt to deflect attention,” said the sources. But they were open to the idea of both sides conducting parallel investigations and sharing the results with each other. It was in this context that India was giving other countries the message that Pakistan should not think it was taking action in anybody’s interest. This terrorism was bound to spill over and affect other countries. This was clear from the targeting of Jews and foreigners from western countries during the Mumbai attacks, the sources said.

“We have been victims of terror from Pakistan for 30 years. It has been their state policy to inflict 1,000 cuts on our polity. We are expecting and calling upon Pakistan to honour its commitments. We are not making a demand. It is in everyone’s interest that they do so.”

enqyoob
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby enqyoob » 10 Jan 2009 04:53

Bottom line, guys, please have the class to not try to judge bereaved relatives by their statements to the media. Their loss is beyond comprehension, at least of me.

These words expressing lack of hate, pity for the murderers, etc. are by no means limited to the Indian relatives. The wife and mother of two of the American victims (a father and daughter who were shot dead in the cafe of the Oberoi or Taj) said pretty much the same thing.

My take is that these people are trying to say something to get "closure" and find some peace to move on with their shattered lives. They just may not have the energy in them to scream "REVENGE!!!" any more, after a month of feeling those screams inside their heads, non-stop.

To read anything more into it from outside is just plain boorish.

All that this "forgiveness" will buy Imran Kasab in the eyes of the Final Judge is maybe commutation of a few hours of being roasted in the fires of Hell, from the 100,000 years of slow roasting that awaits him, after the Indian police, courts, jailers and his jailmates are done with him. Or maybe it just gets him a much longer and more severe sentence, given the kinds of people against whom he perpetrated his monstrosities.

There is no salvation for paki terrorists or their puppeteers.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby samuel » 10 Jan 2009 05:07

If they scream revenge revenge and revenge, the sleepless nights which were theirs to bear already, become vengeful, debilitating, leading to all sorts of breakdowns of the psyche. The price one pays for years one has to endure to get "revenge" is often too expensive and harsh. The body, mind or soul, as may be the case, tries to find a way to center the balance. If that balance is restored, seeking justice can be pursued in a more determined and alternatively meaningful (to them) way.

S

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Amber G. » 10 Jan 2009 05:20

Sorry if posted already:
Mumbai like attack in US may originate in Pakistan
WASHINGTON: The terrorist attacks in Mumbai have dramatically damaged Pakistan’s image in the United States where a consensus seems to be emerging that the terrorists may be planning a Mumbai like attack on this country as well and that if such an attack happens, it will originate in Pakistan.
During the last two days, more than a dozen senior US officials, lawmakers and terrorism experts discussed various scenarios for a possible terrorist attack on the United States. All pointed their fingers at Pakistan.

And these were not unnamed intelligence officials who in the past discussed such scenarios with the US media on the condition that they remained anonymous.

These were all senior officials and lawmakers – such as Gen. David H. Petraeus, the new head of the US Central Command, Ken Wainstein, the White House national security adviser and Senator Joe Lieberman, chairman Senate Homeland and Governmental Affairs committee. And they were all speaking on the record
.
<snip>
Last edited by Amber G. on 10 Jan 2009 05:22, edited 1 time in total.

hnair
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby hnair » 10 Jan 2009 05:21

Since when did urdu press of pakistan mattered to ANY Indian? whatever proof the rest of the world has about paki terror, they will always claim the hideous little runt, kasab, came to Gateway of India to buy groundnuts to feed the pigeons. we should not utilize the filthy output of the paki urdu press to alter our perceptions or loose self control, for the urdu press exists for their army to control the poverty class pakis.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby negi » 10 Jan 2009 05:52

Accha ek aur cheez ...

I think every time we hear or read about an article in IDM regarding an office bearer in Massa raising concern over homeland security or a threat of an terrorist attack and obviously pointing the finger at our deserving neighbour; we seem to believe that Unkil is slowly acknowledging India's stand wrt TSP; I clearly remember when 09/11 happened how GOI and even analysts in media had claimed that now US too has realized that terrorism is not merely limited to J&K or even India ; and that US and India will now form an alliance against global terror.However to everyone's surprise folks in DC went ahead and forged an alliance with TSP for GWOT , rest as they say is there for everyone to read in article published by N^3 :mrgreen: .

Imo we need to clearly make a distinction between Unkil's stand over its security concerns and its policy in Indian Sub Continent.

It is utter foolishness to even think that Unkil sees Pakistan as it's ally ; infact Unkil is even more concerned (concerns actually translate to action on ground) than GOI when it comes to terrorist activities emanating from TSP which might potentially lead to another 09/11 like attack ,however US is cunning enough to pursue its International policy in isolation . i.e. We need to understand Unkil is not fighting a war of right vs wrong .
Unkil needs to have a strong presence in Indian sub-continent and with India,China and Iran ruled out from the equation is has only Pakistan and Afganisthan available for play.

Their presence in Afghanistan not only cures their old khujli of sorrounding RU but will also mean access to real time intel on Terrorist activities in TSP which of course they require to keep main land Amerika safe as well as use as a balancing tool wrt Indo-Pak relations.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby archan » 10 Jan 2009 05:59

All this looking at unkil for support makes me want to throw up. For whatever's sake, GoI, grow a pair! :evil:

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Chinmayanand » 10 Jan 2009 06:26

archan wrote:All this looking at unkil for support makes me want to throw up. For whatever's sake, GoI, grow a pair! :evil:

Current GoI already has a pair ..MMS and PC...aka..the two renowned economists India ever had...irony is , when they took office, sensex crashed and when they are about to leave office, it is crash landing...if the current duo owe this crash landing to the global mess, then they don't deserve the credit for the take off also as it was global...hence , all their economic wisdom is worth being there in the dustbin.... :((
Did you mean "a pair of balls"? :rotfl:
It is being held by the supreme mistress... :mrgreen:

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2009 08:33

chetak wrote:Shiv ji,
Why are we so obsessed with forgiveness?


er - Who is "we"?

The widow of a dead police officer has expressed an opinion.

If YOU disagree with the opinion, that is fine. But if you say that your opinion gains value because Thackray agrees with you I disagree. I cannot forgive what I see as a mistake on your part in trying to gain support for your view by quoting Thackray.

Thackray's value is currently zero as far as I am concerned and if you feel that your opinion gains value by coinciding with Thackray's opinion, my view of your opinion too falls. And I am not going to forgive you for the indirect support you are giving to a person like Thackray who is anti national when it suits him and patriotic when that suits him.

I am not about to forgive either the Thackrays or Kasab. Note. Both don't deserve forgiveness. Are you by any chance forgiving one of them?

What's all this about "we" and "forgiveness" then? You want to forgive Thackray and not forgive Kasab? For you corruption is OK. Letting D company survive in Mumbai is Ok. Kasab is not OK.

I disagree.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby vera_k » 10 Jan 2009 09:12

hnair wrote:Since when did urdu press of pakistan mattered to ANY Indian?


It matters to more Indians than you think.


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