Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Raja Ram
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Raja Ram » 10 Jan 2009 11:40

To set the record straight:

I have not posted any details of the immediate family member of slain Shri Karkare as alluded to in the note editing my post. I had merely referred to the details mentioned in an earlier post by chetak, which in itself is a post of media reported article. That reference to a particular detail about the family member appeared in the original article and has also been edited out as can be seen clearly.

I do not want to be seen as someone who as acted irresponsibly.

I fully understand and accept the decision made in editing out and I am not interested in or asking for a reinstatement of my post.

All I want to do this by post is to set the record straight in that I have not been the one to fish out personal particulars of an immediate family member of a slain police officer and post the same here on this forum.

I hope the powers that be will provide the courtesy to allow this clarification without any editing. Thanks.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby chetak » 10 Jan 2009 13:57

vera_k wrote:
hnair wrote:Since when did urdu press of pakistan mattered to ANY Indian?

It matters to more Indians than you think.

Small matter of keeping your friends close and your enemies closer! :)

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby rahulranjan » 10 Jan 2009 15:00


'No response from Pak on 26/11 dossier'

Minister of State for External Affairs, Anand Sharma on Saturday (January 10) responded to Pakistan for saying that it has reacted to India's November 26, 2008 Mumbai terror dossier and said that no information has been received from Pakistan nor any kind of official response has come in from our neighbour on the dossier.

He said, "India will respond only once we get a reply from Pakistan. We have not received any response from Pakistan on the dossier as yet."

"Pakistan should abide by the promises made to India and the international community on fighting against terrorism. Pakistan will have to destroy all the infrastructure that has been made available to terrorist elements. This will benefit not only India and the world, but Pakistan itself," said Sharma.

Making a strong statement that the those involved in the Mumbai carnage should be tried as per Indian laws, Anand Sharma added, "Those people who carried out the Mumbai terror attacks have been indentified as Pakistani nationals. They should be punished according to the laws existing in India because the attacks took place in our soil."

On the lone surviving terrorist involved in the 26/11 attack, Ajmal Kasav's consular access, the Minister of State said, "We have not received any demands so far and no request has come in for Ajmal Kasav's consular access. He is a Pakistani citizen and if Pakistan requested for a consular access, we will happily give the same."

Anand Sharma also said that Pakistan should have cooperated right from the beginning instead of getting into a denial mode that the terrorists are from their soil. He said, "Regarding accepting his nationality, from Day one it was clear from where they came and whose nationals they were. It would have been in the interest of this region and creating a condusive environment, if Pakistan would not have gone into a denial mode. But accepted in the beginning, cooperated, and honoured its committments -- both bilateral assurances and international conventions which needs to be respected."

"They are as a national state, Pakistan is obliged to take action and to ensure that the perpetrators are brought to justice and the infrastructure of terror outfits which is there is effectively dismantled," added Sharma.

This statement from Anand Sharma comes after Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Friday(January 9) had said that the ISI has given its "feedback" to India on "some information" about the Mumbai attacks that New Delhi had shared with US intelligence agency CIA. He also maintained that all further action will be taken according to Pakistani laws

I really wonder what Pakis have promissed to our Babus and what GOI's exit plan is ......

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby chetak » 10 Jan 2009 15:10

shiv wrote:
chetak wrote:Shiv ji,
Why are we so obsessed with forgiveness?

er - Who is "we"?

The widow of a dead police officer has expressed an opinion.

If YOU disagree with the opinion, that is fine. But if you say that your opinion gains value because Thackray agrees with you I disagree. I cannot forgive what I see as a mistake on your part in trying to gain support for your view by quoting Thackray.

Thackray's value is currently zero as far as I am concerned and if you feel that your opinion gains value by coinciding with Thackray's opinion, my view of your opinion too falls. And I am not going to forgive you for the indirect support you are giving to a person like Thackray who is anti national when it suits him and patriotic when that suits him.

I am not about to forgive either the Thackrays or Kasab. Note. Both don't deserve forgiveness. Are you by any chance forgiving one of them?

What's all this about "we" and "forgiveness" then? You want to forgive Thackray and not forgive Kasab? For you corruption is OK. Letting D company survive in Mumbai is Ok. Kasab is not OK.

I disagree.

Shiv ji,

I lived at Dadar among maharashtrians, in Bombay, during the peak of the southindian bashing by Sri thackray. As kids we were singled out, harassed and beaten by his goons. The locality was filled with families of karkare's class, upwardly mobile, solidly middle class, yet none came to help. We accepted that too. :)
I hardly count Sri thackray among my friends. I am not about to forgive him either.
We know how the Jews in Germany must have felt .
By sheer happenstance, thackray's and my opinions coincided for a brief moment in time.
I remarked on the coincidence.
My opinion is my own and I neither need nor seek a certificate from any mai ke lal.
I believe that if some one takes an eye, in return take off his head, first time and every time. If we don't speak the lingua franca, then we will continue to suffer. Time for change.

D company survives in Bombay because no one in power has the required big brown hairy b***s, most essential for robust administration.
Who do you think is behind all this hindu terrorism coming up in the DDM and dork tv channels.
I speak for myself when I say no more compromise. We ( me and other like thinking people) have done it for eons and
bugger all of a difference it seems to have made. But the numbers of such thinking people is growing every day. Enough is enough. Time for change.
Time has come to take the head. Economically, militarily any which way. Lingua franca is vital here.
They are at the gates, screwing you on your own doorstep and all we can do is indulge in semantics?
Forgiveness is reserved for human beings.

The widow of a dead police officer has expressed an opinion. That is her right.
I disagree strongly. This is my right and I am not about to give it up.

You of course, are welcome to disagree. That is your right. :)

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Lalmohan » 10 Jan 2009 17:02

lets be clear, sena was anti southie before being anti muslim, and it was anti gujju before it was anti southie. in between anti muslim it is now trying to be anti bhaiyya

the point is sena needs to now be pro-something useful instead of always being anti-something. and sorry but pro-marathi manus is the same as anti someone else in the way they practice it

maybe they can try being anti-corruption, anti-crime, anti-gangsterism... but then these are also their bread and butter

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby enqyoob » 10 Jan 2009 17:22

The thing that bothers me about this Kasab is that he looks so... BIHARI.

No wonder Raj ji is so :twisted:

BTW, as I understand, the Malegaon charge is that an office of the SIMI was targeted with a bomb. No one seems to have asked why an office of the SIMI was operating there in public after the organization was banned in 2004 (or was it 2003?)

While I do not condone vigilantism, and anyway it was idiotic to set off a bomb that also killed innocents if indeed the target was SIMI, chetak has a very valid point that if the government does not show any signs of intent or seriousness to enforce the law, vigilantism and warlord gangs will become the reality of India.

But supporting that course of degeneration is still not halal, IMO. Thackeray and his (now dead?) presumed-father are/were gross liabilities to India. Any supposed favors done by them in protecting some people when it was convenient, are no different from what the LeT or the Mafia or KKK do. That does not in any way excuse their gross contempt for the constitution or their criminal enterprise. Hope Chidambaram,though he may do diddly squat about Paki terrorism (which is a Defence Ministry issue), actually succeeds in wiping out the criminal gangs from their dominant role in Indian society, both in the metropoles and in the villages. But how about those in government, I wonder... like Shibhu Soren, Mayawati, Amar Singh, CPI(M), etc. :roll:

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Neilz » 10 Jan 2009 20:39

Paki are back on their "attention diverting" track.....

http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/10m ... ttacks.htm

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani [Images] today accused the world of "double standards" in dealing with the Mumbai attacks and terrorist incidents in Pakistan, saying there was no need for the international community to make "so much noise" about the strike in India's financial hub.

Gilani sought to compare the terrorist attacks in Mumbai [Images] to the Israeli strikes in Gaza and what he termed "atrocities" being committed on innocent people in Jammu and Kashmir [Images] and questioned why the world community was silent on such issues.

He attributed the Mumbai attacks to "an intelligence failure in India", saying this was the neighbouring country's "internal matter". He added: "As far as the world is concerned, it is presenting this one incident in an exaggerated manner."

And this is height of Audacity.. they are making mockery of themselves....... and they believe people will listen to them......

With a hint of sarcasm, he said: "They say 10 people held the whole of India hostage. We pray for their security every day because if any other incident happens (in India), it will be blamed on us. We are now defending two countries, not one. We are defending them and ourselves."

I think our must option as we discussed earlier stopping supply of all high ticket defense item as well as try every thing possible to make pak a failed state....... then everything will fall in proper place...... other will do the things especially unkil...... then we can aramse watch a good movie..... :rotfl:

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Pranay » 10 Jan 2009 21:23

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 960158.cms

Some more impotent bluster... :(

India virtually rules out Israel type action against Pak
10 Jan 2009, 1630 hrs IST, PTI

NEW DELHI: India on Saturday virtually ruled out any Israel type action against Pakistan in the wake of Mumbai terror attacks, saying the situation
is not comparable.

External affairs minister Pranab Mukherjee, however, maintained that "future course" will decide how India will deal with Pakistan if the latter does not comply with its demands about ending terrorism.

"I do not agree to that. Because this is totally wrong. The situation is not at all comparable," he said when asked whether Israeli type offensive against Hamas in Gaza Strip could be an option for the Government against Pakistan.

"I have not gone and occupied any (of) Pakistan's land which Israel has done (in Palestine). So, how the situation can be comparable," Mukherjee asked during a television interview.

Maintaining that all options are still "open", he said India expects Pakistan to act on the evidence linking elements in the neighbouring country to Mumbai attacks.

"When I say all options are open, all options are open. There is no need of picking up option a, option b, option c, option d. No need of that. I am not responding to that. What I am responding to is options are open," he said.

"We have not reached the end of the road. Pakistan, what they have asked for, we have given them. We expect them to act on it," Mukherjee said.

"If they do not act on it, then what follow up steps we will take and in what space of time it will take place, future course will decide," he said.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Pranay » 10 Jan 2009 22:43

So, why is there so much noise about Mumbai after all...?? :shock:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Why_ ... 961353.cms

Why is there 'so much noise' about Mumbai: Gilani
10 Jan 2009, 2220 hrs IST, TNN

NEW DELHI: A day after he made, as some call it, the mysterious statement that ISI's response to the Indian dossier had been conveyed to India,
Pakistan PM Yousaf Raza Gilani on Saturday shot his mouth off again saying that there was no need for the world to make “so much noise'' about the Mumbai attacks. Gilani's statement about ISI's feedback being given to India was denied again by New Delhi on Saturday.

Drawing a parallel with the Israeli strikes in Gaza, Gilani accused the international community of double standards saying that it was more concerned about the Mumbai attacks than the killings in Palestine. ``We have to see that the world does not have double standards. See how many innocent women and children have been killed in Palestine. Why is nobody talking about that? Why is the world silent on that?'' said Gilani during a function in Karachi, adding that there was no need for the world to make so much noise over just one incident — the Mumbai attacks.

He went on to bring up the issue of J&K saying that the world had remained silent over the ``atrocities'' committed by India on the people of the state. Stating that hundreds of people had been killed in terrorist strikes, including suicide attacks on slain leader Benazir Bhutto's cavalcade in October 2007 and Marriot Hotel in Islamabad, in the past, Gilani wondered why not enough ``noise'' was made over these incidents.
He said 26/11 was an intelligence failure on India's part and that it India's ``internal matter''.

This was the second shocker from Gilani in as many days. Gilani's statement on Friday that Islamabad has handed over its feedback to the dossier linking Mumbai attacks with Pakistan nationals has turned mysterious with India on Saturday saying that no such reply had been received from Pakistan. Gilani had made the statement before reporters in Islamabad on Friday, but this was soon denied by foreign ministry officials.

On Saturday, minister of state for foreign affairs Anand Sharma categorically said that no such feedback had been received from Islamabad. ``We have not yet received it. When it reaches us we will comment,'' said Sharma, adding that India had also not received any request from Pakistan for consular access to the lone terrorist survivor in Mumbai attacks Ajmal Amir Kasab.

What is further intriguing is another statement from Gilani that India had handed over a 52-page dossier to the CIA which had been given to Pakistan and to which ISI had responded. He said that ISI's response had been conveyed to the CIA and India. A senior official in New Delhi, however, said that India had no knowledge about any dossier being handed over to Pakistan through the CIA. The Indian dossier, he said, had been prepared with help from FBI and handed over directly by the foreign ministry to the Pakistan High Commissioner in New Delhi.

``Our position is clear that Pakistan should fulfill the promises it has made to India and the international community. It should dismantle the terror infrastructure that exists there,'' stated Sharma.

Meanwhile, foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee on Saturday again said that all options are open for India even as he ruled out Gaza-like strikes saying that the situation here could not be compared with the ongoing conflict in Gaza. ``I have not gone and occupied any (of) Pakistan's land which Israel has done (in Palestine).

So, how the situation can be comparable,'' Mukherjee told a news channel when asked about whether a response similar to that of Israel can be contemplated by India.

``We have not reached the end of the road. Pakistan, what they have asked for, we have given them. We expect them to act on it. If they do not act on it, then what follow-up steps we will take and in what space of time it will take place, future course will decide,'' said Mukherjee. He said that India had to deal with the civilian government in Islamabad even if it wasn't clear which agency was actually calling the shots in Pakistan.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Karna_A » 10 Jan 2009 23:04

I can understand your frustration.

But BR forums are arguably the most homogeneous in thinking you can get among Indians. If you cannot convice people here of your own Nationalistic and Patriotic viewpoint, outside it you stand no chance. So it's better to learn the different variations of Nationalism on BR forum before trying out ideas elsewhere where you may find Communists, Secularists, Atheists and what not.

RajaJi wrote:Just to let the moderators and fellow forum members know, this will be my last post here, i joined these forums being a staunch Hindustani patriot who has immense love for his motherland, but this forum has lot of red tape and too much beauracracy just like the past, present, and future state of India. One is discouraged to speak his/her mind and be truthful in what they truely think of the matters being discussed. {No, you were warned not to post juvenile obscenities and stink up a serious discussion, but your reaction is to choose to whine about that and throw bratty tantrums instead. Q.E.D. Do enjoy growing up and becoming civilized at some time in the future and being allowed to participate in grown-up society. 'Bye!}

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby MohanG » 11 Jan 2009 02:30

A wife's POV

My husband died a hero’s death: Vinita Kamte
Meena Menon

It was made out that the 3 officials went into the attack without thinking

“The police should have come out with the true facts much earlier”

“Only the brave were leading from the front”

PUNE: “We are proud of you, you are our hero,” says a small board in the Kamte living room in Pune’s Rakshak Society. A garlanded picture of Ashok Kamte, Additional Commissioner of Police, Mumbai East, who was gunned down by terrorists in the November 26 attack near Cama Hospital is next to it. His ceremonial swords and caps are in front along with a collage of pictures.

In this quiet yet poignant manner, Vinita Kamte, 43, and her two sons mourn the death of a man they believe died a hero’s death that night.

Yet Ms. Kamte, a labour lawyer by training, feels that neither her husband nor the two senior police officers who were killed along with him — Hemant Karkare and Vijay Salaskar — have got their due. “The police should have come out with the true facts much earlier, on the next day, instead of waiting for me to uncover the facts,” she told The Hindu in an interview.

In fact, after the incident, she and her sister who is a practising lawyer, spent several days meeting eye-witnesses and people involved in the Cama Hospital incident and they have come up with some shocking facts. In the police force you need all kinds of people and that day, she says, only the brave were leading from the front. “My husband always carried his AK 47, handling weapons was second nature to him. Once someone asked him why he always carried a weapon and he said in Mumbai you never know what will happen,” recalls Ms. Kamte. He would even carry a weapon to a restaurant, keep one in his bedroom, and he would keep saying he would hate to go down unarmed in the event of an attack.

On that night he was called to the Oberoi Hotel by Police Commissioner Hasan Gafoor, she said. At the last minute he went to the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) and from there to Cama Hospital where he met up with Mr. Karkare and the others at the gate of the hospital. Ms. Kamte believes he was summoned from his residence at Chembur because somewhere the police knew he would deliver the goods. “When I heard the news of his death, the first thing I asked was did he hit back. I was told he shot Kasab and he had injured him in both the hands,” she says.

However, it was made out that the three senior policemen went into the attack quite by coincidence and without any thinking. “I felt these three men along with others had given their lives, don’t make them look like amateurs,” she points out. “My husband fired towards the Cama terrace where the terrorists were firing and that deterred them.”

“That’s why they rushed down. No one else there knew how to handle a weapon like the AK 47. They then spent nearly 40 minutes planning a strategy. It was all dark there and they tried to figure out how to enter Cama and knocked on many doors there. However, there was no help and no reinforcements were sent,” she says, after her own investigations.

Worse still, there were many calls made to the control room by people near the Cama Hospital who saw the two terrorists. Yet no one told these police officers that they were there. Once the jeep carrying Mr. Karkare and the others was in the lane near Cama, they were sitting ducks. Ms Kamte says she is a very private person and was not keen on any publicity. Yet she feels those who did their duty must be projected as such.

“You know, once Ashok had got hurt on his face and did not even go to hospital. He got himself stitched up in office. I did not even know about it till later. That’s the kind of man he was, he would never push his men to the front. He was a one man army,” she says.

“Outside the Cama Hospital, my husband understood the gravity of the situation along with the other officers, and he spoke to someone saying they needed the Army and extra reinforcements. That did not come and, worse, his escort vehicle carrying tear gas shells and ammunition was stopped by a police cordon from going near him and helping out,” she reveals. “That escort car could have saved their lives,” she points out.

Yet after all this, it is being made out that the three officers were impulsive. “I feel such acts of bravery should not be questioned … if anything, question the acts of incompetence,” she says. In fact, Mr. Kamte took a house on rent in Chembur so that he could be in his region and if there was something, his reaction time would be swift.

He was so conscientious, he would ask his seniors permission to go for dinner to South Mumbai, says his wife. His uniform would always be ready so that he could get going in a minute, she recalls. He used to even keep his wireless set in his bedroom at one point. “We used to practice firing with an air gun sometimes, shooting cans. I was surprisingly good at it,” she adds. He was known for his bluntness and often said he was not a politician and there was no need for him to be nice to anyone.

He used to tell his sons Rahul and Arjun to join the Army. In fact, at heart he was more of an armyman than a cop, feels Ms. Kamte.

Yet she attaches no blame to the police. “Despite all their shortcomings, the police caught one terrorist alive,” she says.

But definitely she wants some answers from the authorities on the many questions she has raised. A tough, no nonsense officer, Mr. Kamte had a different side to him at home. “The kids thought he was very cute and he was really a very attentive father,” she says. She also said he was a perfectionist, he hated anything going wrong. “He had the most gentle heart and was very proud of his uniform,” she adds with pride.

The rooms in the house in Pune have many books on weapons, training and manuals on arms. Mr. Kamte loved weapons, caps, uniforms and badges. His wife has made a collage of all the badges he collected from all over the world including his tenure in Bosnia as part of the Special Forces. His grandfather Narayanrao Marutirao Kamte was the first Indian inspector general of police. “He’ s a chip of the old block,” she smiles. He won many friends during his year’s tenure at Bosnia and in fact one of them, a police officer, has named his son Ashok, after him.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby archan » 11 Jan 2009 04:06

Karna_A wrote:RajaJi,
I can understand your frustration.

But BR forums are arguably the most homogeneous in thinking you can get among Indians. If you cannot convice people here of your own Nationalistic and Patriotic viewpoint, outside it you stand no chance. So it's better to learn the different variations of Nationalism on BR forum before trying out ideas elsewhere where you may find Communists, Secularists, Atheists and what not.

His post was edited because of the language used, not because of his viewpoint, whatever that is/was. And then he chose to whine about it. What's so hard to see in there?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Rishi » 12 Jan 2009 08:35


Forty-five days after the Mumbai terrorist strike of November 26 to 29,2008, India has failed to convince large sections of the internationalcommunity that Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) had orchestrated the terrorist strike in Mumbai by 10 terrorists of theLashkar-e-Toiba (LET). That is my conclusion after interactions with a wide spectrum of foreign counter-terrorism experts----governmental aswell as non-governmental.

2. The experts of the various countries whose nationals died at the hands of the terrorists are convinced on the basis of their own substantial independent technical intelligence that the terrorist attack was carried out by 10 Pakistani nationals belonging to the LET, who came to Mumbai by boat from Karachi for carrying out the strike. They are also convinced on the basis of the voluminous evidence in their archives about the privileged relationship between the ISI and the LET. But they claim not to have seen any conclusive evidence so far to show that the ISI----or at least its present leadership---- had orchestrated the Mumbai terrorist attack. A question, which they pose, which is logical and compelling, is whether the terrorists would have killed nationals of the US, the UK, France, Italy, Germany, Canada and Australia if they had been deputed by the ISI to indulge in the carnage.

3. Some of these experts, who were earlier convinced of the ISI hand behind the attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul in the first week of July, 2008, when Lt.Gen. Nadeem Taj, the present Corps Commander at Gujranwala, was the ISI Director-General, are prepared to allow for the possibility that Lt.Gen. Taj, before he was removed from the ISI on September 30, 2008, allegedly under US pressure by Gen.Pervez Ashfaq Kayani, Pakistan's Chief of the Army Staff (COAS), might have also planned the Mumbai attack by the LET and got its cadres chosen for the attack trained. In this connection, it is significant that Ajmal Amir, the Pakistani in the custody of the Mumbai Police, had reportedly stated during his interrogation that the attack was planned for September 26, but was postponed. These experts point out that Taj was still the DG of the ISI on September 26.

4. The Americans had allegedly got Taj removed because of their conviction that his was the brain behind the Kabul attack and that Taj,who has a reputation of being rabidly anti-Indian and anti-US, had leaked out some information shared by the Americans with him to the Taliban. It was generally presumed till now on the basis of some past reports in sections of the Pakistani media about Taj being related to Gen.(retd) Pervez Musharraf that he must be a Mohajir, but some Western experts claim that he is actually a Punjabi-speaking Kashmiri. If this is so, in its history the ISI had been headed by Punjabi-speaking Kashmiris twice. The earlier Kashmiri DG of the ISI was Lt.Gen.(retd) Javed Nasir, who headed the ISI during Nawaz Sharif's first tenure as the Prime Minister (1990-93). The Mumbai blasts of March,1993,were orchestrated by him. He was removed by Sharif from the ISI under US pressure because of his perceived non-cooperation in the US attempts to buy back the unused Stinger missiles from the Afghan Mujahideen. It was during his tenure that the Bill Clinton Administration had declared Pakistan as a suspected State-sponsor of terrorism. This designation was removed after six months after Sharif had removed from the ISI Nasir and some other officers disliked by the US.

5. While thus some American experts have an open mind on the possibility of the involvement of Taj in the Mumbai carnage, they are prepared to give the benefit of doubt to Lt.Gen.Ahmed Shuja Pasha, who has been the DG of the ISI since September 30,2008. He enjoys a good reputation in the West as a balanced person, who would not indulge in this type of operation, particularly when it is partly directed against Western nationals and Jewish civilians.

6. Every country, whose nationals died during the terrorist attack, has been making a detailed analysis of why its nationals were targeted and killed. For example, in addition to the Israelis and the nationals of the countries mentioned above, the terrorists also killed the nationals of three countries in South-East Asia. One of them was a Chinese woman from Singapore. According to one version that one heard in Singapore, the terrorists forced her to ring up her Foreign Office in Singapore and request it to urge the Government of India not to send the security forces into the hotels. According to the version prevalent in Singapore, when the Singapore Foreign Office refused to intercede in this matter, the terrorists shot her dead. Why did they do so? What is the reason for their apparent anger against Singapore? This is a question, which kept propping up.

7. Apart from the way the attack was planned and executed, the most significant aspect of the attack was the targeting of foreign nationals----particularly the cream of the foreign business community who frequent these hotels. It was because of this that the technical intelligence agencies of the Western countries diverted all their capabilities to cover the conversations between the terrorists and their handlers in Pakistan. It is said that the US moved one of its communication satellites over Mumbai during the 60 hours that the drama lasted in order to cover these conversations.

8. After the drama was over and the National Security Guards (NSGs) had rescued the surviving hostages, the Western countries had all their surviving nationals quietly flown to Europe where they were thoroughly debriefed by special teams from their intelligence agencies. It is said that the French even sent a special plane for evacuating the French and other Western survivors from Mumbai to Paris. Western experts are surprised that neither the Mumbai Police nor the central intelligence agencies showed interest in detaining the surviving foreign hostages in India in order to debrief them thoroughly. If they had done so, the details collected by them would have formed an important part of the dossier prepared by the Ministry of Home Affairs and disseminated to foreign Governments. It is said that such details,which could have been obtained by debriefing the foreign survivors, hardly figure in the dossier.

9. According to foreign experts, the Mumbai Police and the central intelligence agencies were so excited by the capture alive of one of the Pakistani perpetrators that they seem to have devoted all their attention to interrogating him and getting as many details as possible, which could help them to fix Pakistan. They complain that other important aspects which might have helped them in reconstructing the terrorist attack, drawing the right lessons from it and preventing a repetition of similar attacks in future have not received much attention.

10. Pakistan's argument that the Government of India has been trying to divert attention from the colossal failure of its counter-terrorism machinery in Mumbai by focussing on the alleged involvement of the ISI has started having some takers abroad due to the unprofessional manner in which the sequel to the terrorist strike has been handled by the Govt.of India. It is important to hold Pakistan accountable for using terrorism against India through concrete evidence. At the same time, it is equally important to identify the deficiencies in our counter-terrorism machinery and act quickly to remove them. This is not being done.

11. The Mumbai carnage has caused great concern in the Western countries for two reasons. Firstly, the jihadi terrorists in India, who had in the past showed an increasing preference for explosives over hand-held weapons, have gone back to hand-held weapons for attacking private establishments such as hotels, which have anti-explosive checks, but no armed guards to foil an attack with hand-held weapons. Of the 163 fatalities in Mumbai, only five were reportedly caused by explosives. The remaining 158 were caused by hand-held weapons (assault rifles and hand-grenades). This trend of the jihadi terrorists going back to hand-held weapons was first noticed in the Anbar province of Iraq after 1993(??? typo) when Al Qaeda killed a number of Americans and others with hand-held weapons. It was noticed in Pakistan in 2007. When the jihadis failed to kill Benazir Bhutto with an explosive device at Karachi in October,2007, they used a mix of a hand-held weapon and an explosive to successfuly kill her at Rawalpindi on December 27,2007. This trend was noticed in Afghanistan in 2008. While there was reportedly an one-third increase in the use of explosive devices in Afghanistan, there was a simultaneous increase in the use of hand-held weapons for precision killings. This trend has now spread to the Indian territory outside Jammu & Kashmir.

12. Secondly, many Western experts feel that there was an Al Qaeda hand in the planning and execution of the Mumbai attack and that such precision planning and execution would not have been possible without the involvement of some local Muslims. While Indian experts have been able to quantify reasonably well the threat which they would continue to face in J&K, they have not been able to quantify in a similar manner the threat from sections of the Indian Muslim youth outside J&K because of a fear in political circles that such an exercise for quantification might have an adverse effect on the Muslim votes in the forthcoming parliamentary elections..

13. US Congressional committees and professional counter-terrorism organisations in the West are already examining the details of the Mumbai carnage in order to draw lessons for themselves and to prevent a Mumbai-style attack in their country. Surprisingly, such an exercise is hardly to be seen in India. All the debate till now has been on what are the options against Pakistan. There has hardly been any public debate on what are the options against the terrorists in order to prevent another major attack. :-? ( 12-1-09)

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby SSridhar » 13 Jan 2009 13:23

Witness who saw the terrorists land is now missing

One of the witnesses in the Mumbai terror attacks case, who saw the terrorists land on the city's shores, has gone missing, police said on Tuesday.

Anita Uddaiya, who saw the ten terrorists arrive at the Fisherman's Colony in Cuffe Parade on November 26, has been missing since January 11.

Police said they have launched a manhunt for the missing witness, who had been taken to the J J Hospital earlier to identify the bodies of the nine killed terrorists.

The missing persons complaint was lodged by Uddaiya's daughter after she went missing from her house in the Cuffe Parade's Fisherman's Colony.

The Crime Branch of the city police, which is the investigating agency in the November 26 terror attacks, has also launched a probe into the incident.

"We are also probing the disappearance of the lady since she is a witness in the case," Joint Commissioner of Police (Crime) Rakesh Maria told PTI.

However, Uddaiya was not a key witness in the trial of arrested terrorist Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab, he said.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby RayC » 13 Jan 2009 13:32

narayanan wrote:The thing that bothers me about this Kasab is that he looks so... BIHARI.

Notwithstanding the fact that all Pakistanis feel they are descendants of the Arabs and have no connection with the subcontinent etc, one is well aware of the reality as to who converted and who did not!

Therefore, if you find him looking like a community of India, it is not very surprising. However, I sure he will claim he is a Syed or a Sheik!

I am descended from the Sun! The Nepal King and the Japanese Emperor are my cousins! :)

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby Sanku » 13 Jan 2009 23:11

This is important -- very important since it also ties in with the nonsense being spouted on how Karkare died

Cops misled me, I did my own probe: Kamte's wife

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby CRamS » 13 Jan 2009 23:27

By US/UK making this hari-splitting fine distinction between LeT and Paki govt (ISI/TSPA), they are in effect saying TSP is not culpable, and makes a mockery of India's case


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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Postby enqyoob » 14 Jan 2009 06:10

And on that note, perhaps it is time to move on.

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