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Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

vsudhir
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby vsudhir » 08 Jan 2009 22:27

Vipul wrote:By advocating a tough stance against the Porki's, SP is trying to steal BJP's thunder.


The heartening part is that there is a market for the 'tough action against TSP' line that even the SP has been unable to ignore.
More evidence that TSP's constituency amongst desi psecs is begining to erode. Onlee diehard psec blowhards like Aroy and Bdutt are holding on, most of the others have quietly shifted track.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby kasthuri » 08 Jan 2009 22:36

SP is just another TSP with the T (terror) removed. :D

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby negi » 08 Jan 2009 22:40

vsudhir wrote:The heartening part is that there is a market for the 'tough action against TSP' line that even the SP has been unable to ignore.
More evidence that TSP's constituency amongst desi psecs is begining to erode. Onlee diehard psec blowhards like Aroy and Bdutt are holding on, most of the others have quietly shifted track.

Likes of Amar singh and Yadav are more dangerous than TSP, the latter at least openly admit their evil designs against India while the former are pimps who would sell anything for power.
Last edited by negi on 08 Jan 2009 22:41, edited 1 time in total.

amdavadi
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby amdavadi » 08 Jan 2009 22:41

SP stands for shi* pakis

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby milindc » 08 Jan 2009 22:50

Ignore Amar Singh's nautanki. He is just trying to dissolve the CBI Inquiry on Mulayam's assets. Just look at his proclamation of Sanjay Dutt's candidature for Lucknow seat knowing that Criminal Sanjay Dutt can't participate in LS Election unless his conviction is stayed by SC.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Rangudu » 08 Jan 2009 23:57

A man who keeps shouting loudly - "Attack all Gays" is likely gay. That way, Amar Singh's antics suggest that SP people are likely to be found involved in major ISI plots as the Mumbai investigation unfolds. A lot of the money, material and local man power seem to point to UP and transfer through Nepal or through Bangladesh. UP is an ideal resting point for people coming in from either side. The CRPF camp attack guy and another UP suspect both came through there. Note that GoI has not spoken ONE WORD about the remaining local collaborators of the Mumbai-10 after the Kolkata arrests.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Prem » 09 Jan 2009 00:03

Amar Singh is D company man . The local collaborators are most probably from Azamgarh. Pawar, Amar Singh, Mulayam etc are connected.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby shynee » 09 Jan 2009 00:07

Chidambaram's visit to US deferred

Home Minister P Chidambaram's proposed visit to the United States this weekend has most likely been deferred, sources informed on Thursday.

Sources suggested that the Ministry of External Affairs had expressed reservations over Chidambaram's visit. The MEA believed that President-elect Barack Obama and his team were presently pre-occupied with the crisis in West Asia. Apparently, Washington had communicated the same to New Delhi.

Many eyebrows had been raised when Chidambaram announced his trip to the United States to hand over the dossier prepared by India, highlighting Pakistani involvement in the November 26 attacks on Mumbai. In political circles, the move was termed as premature and imprudent.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby kasthuri » 09 Jan 2009 00:22

shynee wrote:Chidambaram's visit to US deferred

Home Minister P Chidambaram's proposed visit to the United States this weekend has most likely been deferred, sources informed on Thursday.

Sources suggested that the Ministry of External Affairs had expressed reservations over Chidambaram's visit. The MEA believed that President-elect Barack Obama and his team were presently pre-occupied with the crisis in West Asia. Apparently, Washington had communicated the same to New Delhi.

Many eyebrows had been raised when Chidambaram announced his trip to the United States to hand over the dossier prepared by India, highlighting Pakistani involvement in the November 26 attacks on Mumbai. In political circles, the move was termed as premature and imprudent.


It looks like the visit was exclusively meant for meeting the Obama team than for sharing the evidence. I could sense something here...

It is my feeling that Obama may not bring in the Kashmir to make TSP fall into line. First, it is nearly impossible to make India comply with the talks. Second, TSP too may be skeptical since Uncle-India interests are narrowing. And third, the time frame for settling the Kashmir will be too enormous to leave Afghanistan at stake. The above three are from Uncle's point of view, assuming it does not know TSP strategic interest in Afghan. With this in view, I guess when Obama proposes his South Asian policy, it could only be in favor of India's interests. Any take??

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Rangudu » 09 Jan 2009 00:40

My hunch is that this is more than a timing issue. US has to make a political call on naming ISI handlers in the indictment as well as in pressuring TSP. The outgoing Bushies want no part of that. TSPA has timed the attacks just right.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby samuel » 09 Jan 2009 01:24

The GoI response to this particular attack in the war on terror that goes back at least a decade is to find a way to defuse the attention it draws on itself without losing public support for the elections.

Since the US needs the regime to continue its agenda, it will find an effective way to prosecute what was done to its citizens without disturbing the regime. There may be some minor heads that will roll and that is exactly what the Government of India will also get as a face saving measure before the elections.

Just what action do you suppose the government will take?
- Overt military action. Nah.
- covert action. not ready.
- International coalition. no one's asking.
- International pressure. well, sure, almost everybody is happy to help us line our ducks up, especially when the evidence is so obvious, but after a little coalition building we seem to need to do. Indeed, they did give a pass when someone said, India has right to defend herself. (the problem is, no one seems to be able to shoot).

Our long term strategic plans to remove the menace that is pakistan will of course continue unhindered.

S
Last edited by samuel on 09 Jan 2009 01:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 09 Jan 2009 01:30

narayanan wrote:
Chidambaram's visit to US deferred


I cannot come to terms with the utter incompetence of the dilli billies being put on display here.



I think the PMO made the calculation the trip was unhelpful at this time. BTW not an ant stirs without PMO allowing it. Thats how GOI runs. So except for outliers there is no independent thinking allowed.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby John Snow » 09 Jan 2009 02:27

HIs dhoti became peela when duplicity folks said we will talk Indian Bank and Swiss Banks!
****
The US Indian Amby and MKN as usual were alseep, the Duplicity is busy crowning the glory, the teams are in transition, gaza is burning, India Association of Congress and Sonia G are running to find out where the funds are.. :rotfl: :rotfl:
Jokers all around.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby AdityaM » 09 Jan 2009 02:39

ramana wrote:The unfortunate thing is whether NDA or UPA or INC (except under Mrs Gandhi) have not give the people of India that feeling which is why there is discomfort now.


Sirs,
My hyper ventilating mind just thought of this:

Congress wants to see Yuvraj in seat of power. Pranab Mukherjee already said so today.
That can't happen if the janta sees Congress as ineffectual in dealing with Pakistan.
The loss in faith of ppl in Govt is loss in faith for the PM...hence the need for the 11th hour saviour.

Now what IF, rajmata's all seeing eye sensing the grief of the janta decides for the good of this nation that enough is enough, and in the most decisive action, shows her resolve by removing the non-delivering MMS and installs Yuvraj.
A nation thirsting for a steely resolve & action is made to see hope & then rajmata directs Yuvraj to strike on TSP.
With the first blow on TSPs soil, the yuvraj is compared to his great father and is for ever immortalised in the minds of the indian people, thus ensuring his victory in the next elections.

Isn't this the best opportunity for the parivar to reinstate its own in the top job?

please pinch me & tell me i am dreaming.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Prem » 09 Jan 2009 02:43

John Snow wrote:HIs dhoti became peela when duplicity folks said we will talk Indian Bank and Swiss Banks!
****
.


Now this is a Trillion Dollar question and naturally a big priority for Netas and their Betas.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby shynee » 09 Jan 2009 02:54

link

According to a top official in the ministry of external affairs, or MEA, Chidambaram’s visit had been cancelled because India had already handed over evidence establishing links between the attacks and Pakistan-based “elements” to Pakistan and given copies to the US.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 09 Jan 2009 03:00

Usually announce d vists are cancelled due to atmoshperics and not for handing over paper files. So India felt it was not productive at this time and cancelled it.
Wait for R man to dig up real reasons.
If not KP Nayar will in Telegraph.
Either way its doesnt look good for Delhi when such things happen.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby John Snow » 09 Jan 2009 03:06

shynee wrote:link

According to a top official in the ministry of external affairs, or MEA, Chidambaram’s visit had been cancelled because India had already handed over evidence establishing links between the attacks and Pakistan-based “elements” to Pakistan and given copies to the US.


The real deal was Amerikhans said " dont come we have your word document filled with our intercept data " :mrgreen: And Chidambaram lost frequent filer flyer miles( Sid Varada as quoted saying NPR vide ramana garus post date today ... trying some GOI squeek here cant beat MMS though)

Frequent Filer>> A babu with a file made up of two brown papers with twine thread holding FOOLSCAP size documents in triplicate with real carbon smudges typed on Godrej M12 or Remington type writer) :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby kasthuri » 09 Jan 2009 03:51


The real deal was Amerikhans said " dont come we have your word document filled with our intercept data " :mrgreen: And Chidambaram lost frequent filer flyer miles


And some pretzels/peanuts along the way! :lol:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Vivek K » 09 Jan 2009 04:07

JE Menon wrote:This means war of a low intensity and sustained bloodshed in Pakistan among the elite. It means targeting of the military in Rawalpindi and Islamabad, in particular the officer cadre. It means random killing of civilians among the above-mentioned population sub-set. It means framing a fearful asymmetry.

I think we are going to respond, and in the not too distant future - one way or the other. If not, we do not deserve to survive as a country.

TSPA wanted to provoke a war. We would do well to calmly, coolly analyze the situation and respond with what you suggest.

We also need to increase our footprint in World Geopolitics. And we need to learn how to order/procure military equipment quickly so as to give us an edge over our enemies. Some kind of an aggressive, overt lesson/reaction may be necessary to serve as a "deterrent" to TSPA in the future. Without this, TSPA can sit back strike any city, then sit back, grab a bag of pop-corn and enjoy the free TV coverage.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby kasthuri » 09 Jan 2009 04:10

Why India must be patient with its former ‘best enemy’ Pakistan

From The Times
January 9, 2009
Why India must be patient with its former ‘best enemy’ Pakistan
Bronwen Maddox, Chief Foreign Commentator

Unfortunately, the sudden dismissal of Pakistan’s national security chief is not a sign of progress in the tense talks with India over the Mumbai terror attacks. It is more a sign of the disarray of Pakistan’s Government.

That goes beyond personalities (although they are huge, and all too relevant). It goes to the heart of Pakistan’s Constitution, which never made clear enough whether the President or Prime Minister was in charge, and which has not recovered from its remodelling by former President Musharraf.

The Indian Government, now with apparently firm proof that the one captured gunman was Pakistani, can be excused fury and frustration at its counterpart’s slow-moving vagueness in response. India is entirely justified in calling on Pakistan to do more to crack down on Islamic militants and their sympathisers inside the security services, and to urge the US and others to pile on the pressure too.

But Islamabad’s lack of coherent response is better interpreted as deep dysfunction, not malice. It is easy (and right) for India to criticise; the harder question is how to help its neighbour, in the next few crucial years, to shut the door on the radicalism that is eroding the few solid pillars of the country.

Pakistan is not a failed state, but it is an unfinished country, with two long borders in dispute, an economy undeveloped because of the block on trade with its giant neighbour, and a Constitution tugged into tatters by the rival claims of presidents, prime ministers, army chiefs and judges.

Those points – the Afghan and Kashmir borders, trade and the most basic institutions – need urgent international attention. The US will play the most important role, and behind that, Britain. It would help if India threw its weight into the search for solutions too.

The best development since the attacks of November 26 has been the tacit determination of the Indian and Pakistani governments not to turn this into war. There has been restraint on the Indian side, and realism, not demanding that Islamabad guarantees an end to all terrorism when it obviously can’t. There have been professions of willingness to help from Pakistan’s President Zardari.

But clear signs point to the hand of Pakistani terror groups, particularly Lashkar-e-Taiba. After Islamabad admitted this week that Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the captured gunman, had Pakistani nationality, Yousaf Gilani, the Prime Minister, dismissed Mehmood Ali Durrani as National Security Adviser. A rapid response, indicating that Pakistan was treating the matter seriously, you might think. But it is more indicative of Gilani’s desire to flex his muscles, in the scrappy battle with Zardari over who runs Pakistan. Durrani was a Zardari appointment, favoured because he had helped him and his late wife, Benazir Bhutto, to make contacts in the US. Gilani, it is said, felt that Durrani was not treating him with respect, not even going through the motions of keeping him informed.

Under Pakistan’s constitution, the Prime Minister is the executive. But the huge powers that Musharraf seized and bolted on to the presidency muddied a division of powers that was already much less clear cut than in countries that work well.

Zardari’s weakness, as an accidental President, stumbling into the role after the assassination of Bhutto in December 2007, has only fuelled the tussle. Ministerial meetings now happen only in response to one crisis after another; the rhythm of regular government has vanished.

The vacuum in Islamabad has led to incoherent responses to the Mumbai crisis, the President and Prime Minister apparently unaware or indifferent to the impact of a delay in responding. India should be credited for its patience. But the muddled, occasionally offensive signals from Islamabad are a symptom of the same problem as the attacks themselves: Pakistan’s own frozen development.

India wins against its rival on any competition you can devise, from wealth to health to military strength. India’s rise, and Pakistan’s slide, means that they have outgrown their old symmetrical stand-off, once dubbed “the best of enemies”. India needs to decide whether it will reconsider concessions it once found unthinkable, on trade, and even on international mediation on Kashmir.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby enqyoob » 09 Jan 2009 04:27

If it is written by a British oiseule, the theme is predictable:

India should reconsider concessions it once found unthinkable, on trade, and even on international mediation on Kashmir.


Yeah! Instead of Jammu-Kashmir, give them the fair territory for a 200 mile radius around 32N latitude, 0.5W longitude, now inhabited by those who created the Pakistan Problem. Anyway that is close to being a Paki-majority area, so it should properly be in Pakistan.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 09 Jan 2009 04:53

Deccan Chronicle reporting PC was in charge of Group to negotiate the oil truckers strike and he is needed there more than in DC.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby John Snow » 09 Jan 2009 05:11

Why what happened to other senior cabinet ministers?
Is it because SG cant trust them for kick backs? I wonder.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby samuel » 09 Jan 2009 05:18

Shouldn't the foreign minister be going?

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby shynee » 09 Jan 2009 06:16

Six Lashkar men who trained with Mumbai attackers holed up in Kashmir

New delhi: A section of the Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorists trained along with the Mumbai attackers are hiding in the mountains of north Kashmir. Sources say that the group of six is led by a Lashkar commander code-named Musa of Bahawalpur. Sources reveal that the terrorists have been divided into two groups — of four and two.

According to them, LeT had initially planned a fidayeen attack in Kashmir using two terrorists from this group but it was shelved to avoid the remote possibility of their arrest. All the six are from Punjab in Pakistan.

Sources reveal that soon after the Mumbai Terror strike, Lashkar’s main communication centre in Sialkote sector was closed but it started functioning after 10 days. Sources say Lashkar commander Zarar Shah’s communications were picked up from this centre. { if this bugger is under custody, how in the hell he is still communicating ? I guess, He is probably sitting in the ISI HeadQuarters.}

According to them, LeT is actively planning an attack in a metro using its cadre from J&K. The aim, sources say, is to bring in the Kashmir connection and divert attention. Security agencies are investigating the whereabouts of three LeT men from Doda district.

Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone terrorist arrested in Mumbai, told investigators that initially 32 were trained together at a Lashkar camp, of which 13 were selected. Of these, six were sent elsewhere and three new members—including the leader of the operation, Ismail Khan—joined later.

Press Trust of India has reported that according to the dossier India handed over to Pakistan, six terrorists have been sent to Kashmir for “some operation.” The terrorists were trained at Lashkar-e-Taiba camps in Muridke, Manshera and Muzaffarabad (in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir), says the dossier which has included Kasab’s interrogation report. “Ultimately, 13 persons out of the group (of 32) were selected for carrying out attacks in India. Six of the 13 were sent for some operations in Kashmir,” the dossier said. (with PTI)

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby James B » 09 Jan 2009 06:51

Kasab's Defence

The eminent criminal lawyer had said that "even a hundred Ram Jethmalanis cannot save Kasab from the death penalty". But here's something that can...

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby enqyoob » 09 Jan 2009 07:11

So is this the Pakis's brilliant strategy to show the world that terrorism is because of Kashmir? The surviving terrorists from Mumbai go to Kashmir to get pest-e-Sha'eeded? :roll:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Nash_M » 09 Jan 2009 08:24

narayanan wrote:So is this the Pakis's brilliant strategy to show the world that terrorism is because of Kashmir? The surviving terrorists from Mumbai go to Kashmir to get pest-e-Sha'eeded? :roll:



I just saw on the news that terrorists escaped. They were holed up in six bunkers (caves????) and army couldn't find a single body or any other ammunition. How is this possible? Army and local police had cordoned off the area and operation was going on for last 8-9 days.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby enqyoob » 09 Jan 2009 08:29

Maybe they Rose to Houristan with their mijjiles erect and intact, and carrying both their Rifle and their Gun? Or else they must have used the Al Loud-din Magic Carpet Model 666 :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sum » 09 Jan 2009 09:38

I just saw on the news that terrorists escaped. They were holed up in six bunkers (caves????) and army couldn't find a single body or any other ammunition. How is this possible? Army and local police had cordoned off the area and operation was going on for last 8-9 days.

Could some piglets have been arrested/shaheedized and the IA just trying to deflect attention/mislead the handlers by professing that ALL the remaining escaped?

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Arun_S » 09 Jan 2009 10:24

NRao wrote:Parthasarathy, on NPR this AM, stated that one more Mumbai and India will act!!!

Sure. Pakistan will oblige and the next one will not be Mumbai but will choose Chinnai / Calcutta / Goa. Pick you choosing.
OK no repeat visit to Mumbai (Baki is so afraid of Indian threat) there are 400 other cities left to play Terror-Terror; so many souls left out there to be harvested !

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Austin » 09 Jan 2009 10:38

One more and we will act is a retarded argument , if we have/had the will to act we would have acted long back , the operative word of GOI is one more and we will wait for the next event to act.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Anujan » 09 Jan 2009 11:09

raghunath wrote:Kasab's Defence

The eminent criminal lawyer had said that "even a hundred Ram Jethmalanis cannot save Kasab from the death penalty". But here's something that can...

Essentially the claim is that the defence can argue that Kasab was on a trained army mission and hence is a prisoner of war. This argument does not hold water. Any enemy combatants who wage war without an official declaration of war by their country, or who wage war after declaration of surrender, do not have protections of Geneva conventions. In fact they can be court martialed and sentenced to death (not even tried in a civilian court). AFAIK either there was no declaration of war by Pakistan, and as I can recollect, Pakistan surrendered in '71 :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby adityaS » 09 Jan 2009 11:57

Anujan wrote:
raghunath wrote:Kasab's Defence

The eminent criminal lawyer had said that "even a hundred Ram Jethmalanis cannot save Kasab from the death penalty". But here's something that can...

Essentially the claim is that the defence can argue that Kasab was on a trained army mission and hence is a prisoner of war. This argument does not hold water. Any enemy combatants who wage war without an official declaration of war by their country, or who wage war after declaration of surrender, do not have protections of Geneva conventions. In fact they can be court martialed and sentenced to death (not even tried in a civilian court). AFAIK either there was no declaration of war by Pakistan, and as I can recollect, Pakistan surrendered in '71 :mrgreen:


Isn't a enemy combatant out of uniform supposed to be a spy anyway, and so not covered by the Geneva Convention? Then again, a versace tee is a fitting uniform for a piglet :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby RayC » 09 Jan 2009 23:55

The problem is that the Geneva Convention has not defined what is a terrorist.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby kasthuri » 10 Jan 2009 00:06

Uncle's double standards

What evidence did these people have when they invaded Iraq?

Don't accuse Pakistan without proof: Mulford

New Delhi: US Ambassador to India, David Mulford tread cautiously on Friday on the alleged involvement of Pakistani official agencies in the Mumbai terror attack, saying accusations could not be made "without proof".

"I don't want to make accusations without proof," Mulford replied when asked whether the US suspected the involvement of official agencies in the Mumbai terror strike.

The ambassador said the Mumbai attack appeared to have been carried out by people from Pakistan and "managed and monitored by Pakistan".

"We'll press ahead as long as it takes," he said at a function organised by the industry lobby Confederation of Indian Industry (CII).

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had said on Tuesday that "given the sophistication and military precision of the (Mumbai) attack it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan".


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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sum » 10 Jan 2009 00:23

IIRC, its not exactly double standards since im certain that US would be asking Pak to hand over the pigs etc if India had attacked and had Pak under the boots by now...

Its just that we are allowing ourselves to become victims of double standards due to inaction...

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Karna_A » 10 Jan 2009 00:59

There is precedence in International case in this regard as below.
http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famc ... i/nazi.htm

Terrorists who come by sea are like spies and they should be executed as Nazis were by Unkil. They are neither criminals nor prisoners of war, both of whom have much more rights.

RayC wrote:The problem is that the Geneva Convention has not defined what is a terrorist.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby enqyoob » 10 Jan 2009 01:33

Find him "not guilty" due to "lack of evidence", celebrate the Fairness of the Indian Legal System - and let him walk out the front door of the courtroom without his AK-47 - into the welcoming arms of the Thackeray Welcoming Committee. I mean, the Indian "non-state actors". :evil:


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