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Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

mnag
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby mnag » 11 Jan 2009 13:02

fortunately, my state of karnataka will not be voting for upa this time. hopefully, the rest of the country doesnt follow delhi example

samuel.chandra wrote:Time to open up the purse strings and go vote. UPA should be taught a lesson.

mnag wrote:with more days passing since 26/11 mumbai incident and indian govt doing nothing except for some speeches by pranab/manmohan once in a while, it looks like no action will happen until the next deadly terrorist incident. india has condemned israel's actions and has made it clear that it is against any military action or surgical strikes. india is hoping that us will miraculously help us out of this situation and hoping that us will fight our war on terror which may not materialise in the near future.

since we also have an election coming up, my guess is that there will be a troop buildup along borders now or prior to elections and there will be some speeches by the netas to convince the electorate that congress/upa is taking action. i think this will be the only indian response to mumbai.

i am not even sure that kasab will get death penalty which would be executed

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby rsingh » 11 Jan 2009 13:29

Me think we should put economic sanctions on Bakistan. Any company doing business in India not allowed to do anything with Bakistan ( as in case of US-CUBA)..........and let them have Chinese made Pig-fat fried chips and Somalian tea.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby negi » 11 Jan 2009 13:35

Lets for time being buy into the GOI propaganda that surgical strikes are not gonna help and that we need to up the diplomatic ante against TSP (whatever that means , presently it looks as if GOI is more concerned about GAZA :roll: ).

Anyways my simple question is what stops us from holding the whole TSP at ransom by stopping the water from the five rivers flowing into TSP ? Is it too much to expect from the Maha mandbuddhi singh and his ilk ? :evil:

{I have said this before, and I am saying this again. It is against BRF policy to come up with, and use insulting names for people holding top offices in Bharat. The next time an official warning will follow. I will give you a chance to edit your own post. I am leaving it out, bolded, so that other "jingoes" may see it as well. thanks, Archan.}

PS: you already have two warnings, a third will lead to your posting rights being postponed.
Last edited by archan on 11 Jan 2009 21:01, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: No more calling names to the PM, please.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Dhiman » 11 Jan 2009 13:47

negi wrote:Anyways my simple question is what stops us from holding the whole TSP at ransom by stopping the water from the five rivers flowing into TSP ? Is it too much to expect from the Maha mandbuddhi singh and his ilk ? :evil:


It's not possible if we don't want floods on our side. What is possible is an even worse scenario for TSP: hold water for certain time then let it go and repeat, i.e short duration cycles of flood and drought in TSP.

negi
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby negi » 11 Jan 2009 13:52

Of course it can be controlled during this time of the year and even during the summer season there is no danger of floods.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby rahulranjan » 11 Jan 2009 17:28

Which time of the year is better to initiate a war with Pak. Looking at history winter seems more preferable to us ....

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Div » 11 Jan 2009 22:30

samuel.chandra wrote:Good article on saag. Describes the mood of the nation. UPA's inaction will eventually cause a nationalist surge that will give BJP the majority that it needs to clean up this country.

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers ... r3004.html

POST MUMBAI 9/11: INDIA PARALYZED BY PAKISTAN’S SUPERIORITY IN “BATTLE OF PERCEPTIONS”

By Dr. Subhash Kapila

An excellent analysis by Dr. Subhash Kapila. BRFites have seen this pattern emerge all the way since Kargil.

Hoping to be wrong, but I don't see much light at the end of the political tunnel...everyone is gung ho when they are the opposition party, but its business as usual regardless of which "coalition" comes to power.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby NRao » 11 Jan 2009 22:59

Div wrote:
samuel.chandra wrote:Good article on saag. Describes the mood of the nation. UPA's inaction will eventually cause a nationalist surge that will give BJP the majority that it needs to clean up this country.

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers ... r3004.html

POST MUMBAI 9/11: INDIA PARALYZED BY PAKISTAN’S SUPERIORITY IN “BATTLE OF PERCEPTIONS”

By Dr. Subhash Kapila

An excellent analysis by Dr. Subhash Kapila. BRFites have seen this pattern emerge all the way since Kargil.

Hoping to be wrong, but I don't see much light at the end of the political tunnel...everyone is gung ho when they are the opposition party, but its business as usual regardless of which "coalition" comes to power.


His analysis just proves what we know. Either way: conducting a regular war or a perceived war, current Indian leaders are inept.

India seems to have plenty of thinkers, but very few that can lead (as tough a job as it is).

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby John Snow » 12 Jan 2009 00:45

I have been saying what subhash ji and J post report says since 1999
Are bahi ek jhapad keechke tho maro, tha ki dushman samjhe ki upon ko bhi g mai dham hai"

magar upon mumble ya aar paarb bhashan may hi dubey :((

Andha raja Andha parja
sathe there bahajan...
Zamana dath threki

"song from trere mere sapne" how appropriate :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Karna_A » 12 Jan 2009 01:54

In the Great Game of 21st Century, instead of fielding its own team either side, India has taken the role of an Umpire.
Umpires are usually bad mouthed by both the teams and that is what is happening right now.

It's time for India to field it's own team.

The United States has the strategic, military, political and economic clout to stop Pakistan’s “War of Terror” against India. But it would not use that clout, because Pakistan colludes in American strategy in the region and India does not.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby SaiK » 12 Jan 2009 02:34

Image

imho, we should not release this movie! ban it, till a GoI action is seen on Pakistan.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby bhavin » 12 Jan 2009 03:51

SaiK wrote:Image

imho, we should not release this movie! ban it, till a GoI action is seen on Pakistan.


So it looks like Ramu will make a movie about this incident and explains his visit with vilasrao deshmukh to the site...

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby enqyoob » 12 Jan 2009 04:00

A pot-bellied Bollywood Herrow instead of the TFTA terrorist? :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby shynee » 12 Jan 2009 05:20

Too crafty a neighbour

Brahma Chellaney

Mumbai: The unparalleled November 26 to 29 Mumbai terrorist assaults were seen as India's 9/11. They were expected to be a tipping point in India's forbearance with Pakistan-fomented terrorism.


However, it is now clear that nothing will change fundamentally. Pakistan's military-nurtured terror complex will remain intact, so also the cosy ties between the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence and terrorist groups like the Lashkar-e-Taiba. The pusillanimity of the Indian leadership has been shown to be too entrenched to be possibly uprooted.

All this means that there will be more Pakistani terrorist attacks in India at phased intervals, with history repeating itself. Furthermore, a now-familiar Indian cycle of empty rhetoric -- ritual condemnation of each attack and a hackneyed promise to defeat terror while allowing communal, electoral and vote-bank considerations to influence counter-terrorism action -- will inexorably eat into the vitals of India's internal security.

As if to make up for its faintheartedness, the Indian government has engaged in an almost-daily war of words with Pakistan -- a war of words any victim can never win against an attacker. Pakistan, despite its internal disarray and eroding credibility, indeed has played its cards well to outmanoeuvre India. It has also demonstrated that its public-relations machine remain more robust than India's.

Pakistan demanded evidence and when India, playing into its hands, compiled and handed over a dossier of detailed evidence, Islamabad heaped ridicule on that data, saying it was "little more than propaganda".

Now Islamabad intends to compile its own dossier on India's alleged involvement in the Baluchi insurrection, although it knows that RAW's covert wing was disbanded long ago by then prime minister IK Gujral and that New Delhi has no capability to help the Baluchis regain their stolen independence.

In fact, India kept its demands so modest as to weaken calls for Pakistan to irreversibly and verifiably tear apart its state-reared terror complex. New Delhi basically asked Islamabad to bring the Pakistan-based masterminds of the attacks to justice. Although it said it would prefer that the masterminds were extradited and "brought to Indian justice," it signalled it would be satisfied if they were put on trial in Pakistan. But even if, at New Delhi's insistence, Pakistan had agreed to extradite Zarrar Shah and Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi to India, it would have lost nothing other than a little pride. After all, the Lashkar and Jaish-e-Mohammed terrorist infrastructure, including sustenance from the ISI, would have remained in place.

In other words, New Delhi's demands were such that Islamabad could easily have delivered on them. Yet, with New Delhi doing little more than making public statements, Pakistan refused to yield.

All that Pakistan has done is to arrest Lakhvi and Shah, besides -- in response to UN Security Council action -- detaining the Lashkar chief, Hafiz Sayeed, and outlawing the Lashkar's reincarnation, the Jamaat-ud-DawaA. But the Lashkar/Jamaat-ud-DawaA is in the process of being reborn under a new name, even as the terrorist body's Muridke headquarters already remains in business.

With the bodies of the nine other attackers still lying unclaimed in Mumbai, Islamabad took more than six weeks to grudgingly admit a fact that had become incontestable -- that the sole captured terrorist is a Pakistani. Yet that admission cost the Pakistani national security adviser his job.

New Delhi exerted no pressure to make Islamabad give in to its fairly small demands. An array of discreet options was available to India, including diplomatic, economic and political. Between the two extremes -- empty talk and war -- New Delhi could have invoked measures commonly available to nations to step up political pressure, such as recalling its own high commissioner from Islamabad, suspending the composite dialogue process, disbanding the farcical joint anti-terror measures and invoking trade sanctions.

Yet a feckless leadership did not take the smallest step even as a symbolic expression of India's outrage over Pakistan's role as the staging ground for the Mumbai attacks. Instead it repeatedly tied itself up in knots.

Note the hurried manner in which the external affairs minister first ruled out the military option, only to later say "all options are open". Note also that India accused state actors in Pakistan of involvement -- in the prime minister's words, "some Pakistani official agencies must have supported" the Mumbai attacks -- and then the same day handed a dossier to Islamabad with the naive expectation that the Pakistani state would act against its state actors. India has had weak governments but never a more incompetent and weak-willed national-security team in charge.

India has to defend itself from the forces of terrorism, or else no united, plural, inclusive and democratic India will survive.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby NRao » 12 Jan 2009 06:19

India needs new leaders. No more think tanks or articles on this topic.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby enqyoob » 12 Jan 2009 06:21

IB4TL?

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Prem » 12 Jan 2009 06:27

NRao wrote:India needs new leaders. No more think tanks or articles on this topic.

India is wating for real leader for long long time.
Remind me of
Hum intjaar karenge kiyamat tak , hum intajaar karenge .
Khuda kare ke kiyamatho
OOOr leader aayee.
Come summer , just increase the temperature in lSlooland by lighting few nukes amidst them.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sonabh » 12 Jan 2009 08:09

^^ really liked the "come summer" touch lol

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Rishi » 12 Jan 2009 08:36

45 DAYS AFTER MUMBAI
B.RAMAN

Forty-five days after the Mumbai terrorist strike of November 26 to 29,2008, India has failed to convince large sections of the internationalcommunity that Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) had orchestrated the terrorist strike in Mumbai by 10 terrorists of theLashkar-e-Toiba (LET). That is my conclusion after interactions with a wide spectrum of foreign counter-terrorism experts----governmental aswell as non-governmental.

2. The experts of the various countries whose nationals died at the hands of the terrorists are convinced on the basis of their own substantial independent technical intelligence that the terrorist attack was carried out by 10 Pakistani nationals belonging to the LET, who came to Mumbai by boat from Karachi for carrying out the strike. They are also convinced on the basis of the voluminous evidence in their archives about the privileged relationship between the ISI and the LET. But they claim not to have seen any conclusive evidence so far to show that the ISI----or at least its present leadership---- had orchestrated the Mumbai terrorist attack. A question, which they pose, which is logical and compelling, is whether the terrorists would have killed nationals of the US, the UK, France, Italy, Germany, Canada and Australia if they had been deputed by the ISI to indulge in the carnage.

3. Some of these experts, who were earlier convinced of the ISI hand behind the attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul in the first week of July, 2008, when Lt.Gen. Nadeem Taj, the present Corps Commander at Gujranwala, was the ISI Director-General, are prepared to allow for the possibility that Lt.Gen. Taj, before he was removed from the ISI on September 30, 2008, allegedly under US pressure by Gen.Pervez Ashfaq Kayani, Pakistan's Chief of the Army Staff (COAS), might have also planned the Mumbai attack by the LET and got its cadres chosen for the attack trained. In this connection, it is significant that Ajmal Amir, the Pakistani in the custody of the Mumbai Police, had reportedly stated during his interrogation that the attack was planned for September 26, but was postponed. These experts point out that Taj was still the DG of the ISI on September 26.

4. The Americans had allegedly got Taj removed because of their conviction that his was the brain behind the Kabul attack and that Taj,who has a reputation of being rabidly anti-Indian and anti-US, had leaked out some information shared by the Americans with him to the Taliban. It was generally presumed till now on the basis of some past reports in sections of the Pakistani media about Taj being related to Gen.(retd) Pervez Musharraf that he must be a Mohajir, but some Western experts claim that he is actually a Punjabi-speaking Kashmiri. If this is so, in its history the ISI had been headed by Punjabi-speaking Kashmiris twice. The earlier Kashmiri DG of the ISI was Lt.Gen.(retd) Javed Nasir, who headed the ISI during Nawaz Sharif's first tenure as the Prime Minister (1990-93). The Mumbai blasts of March,1993,were orchestrated by him. He was removed by Sharif from the ISI under US pressure because of his perceived non-cooperation in the US attempts to buy back the unused Stinger missiles from the Afghan Mujahideen. It was during his tenure that the Bill Clinton Administration had declared Pakistan as a suspected State-sponsor of terrorism. This designation was removed after six months after Sharif had removed from the ISI Nasir and some other officers disliked by the US.

5. While thus some American experts have an open mind on the possibility of the involvement of Taj in the Mumbai carnage, they are prepared to give the benefit of doubt to Lt.Gen.Ahmed Shuja Pasha, who has been the DG of the ISI since September 30,2008. He enjoys a good reputation in the West as a balanced person, who would not indulge in this type of operation, particularly when it is partly directed against Western nationals and Jewish civilians.

6. Every country, whose nationals died during the terrorist attack, has been making a detailed analysis of why its nationals were targeted and killed. For example, in addition to the Israelis and the nationals of the countries mentioned above, the terrorists also killed the nationals of three countries in South-East Asia. One of them was a Chinese woman from Singapore. According to one version that one heard in Singapore, the terrorists forced her to ring up her Foreign Office in Singapore and request it to urge the Government of India not to send the security forces into the hotels. According to the version prevalent in Singapore, when the Singapore Foreign Office refused to intercede in this matter, the terrorists shot her dead. Why did they do so? What is the reason for their apparent anger against Singapore? This is a question, which kept propping up.

7. Apart from the way the attack was planned and executed, the most significant aspect of the attack was the targeting of foreign nationals----particularly the cream of the foreign business community who frequent these hotels. It was because of this that the technical intelligence agencies of the Western countries diverted all their capabilities to cover the conversations between the terrorists and their handlers in Pakistan. It is said that the US moved one of its communication satellites over Mumbai during the 60 hours that the drama lasted in order to cover these conversations.

8. After the drama was over and the National Security Guards (NSGs) had rescued the surviving hostages, the Western countries had all their surviving nationals quietly flown to Europe where they were thoroughly debriefed by special teams from their intelligence agencies. It is said that the French even sent a special plane for evacuating the French and other Western survivors from Mumbai to Paris. Western experts are surprised that neither the Mumbai Police nor the central intelligence agencies showed interest in detaining the surviving foreign hostages in India in order to debrief them thoroughly. If they had done so, the details collected by them would have formed an important part of the dossier prepared by the Ministry of Home Affairs and disseminated to foreign Governments. It is said that such details,which could have been obtained by debriefing the foreign survivors, hardly figure in the dossier.

9. According to foreign experts, the Mumbai Police and the central intelligence agencies were so excited by the capture alive of one of the Pakistani perpetrators that they seem to have devoted all their attention to interrogating him and getting as many details as possible, which could help them to fix Pakistan. They complain that other important aspects which might have helped them in reconstructing the terrorist attack, drawing the right lessons from it and preventing a repetition of similar attacks in future have not received much attention.

10. Pakistan's argument that the Government of India has been trying to divert attention from the colossal failure of its counter-terrorism machinery in Mumbai by focussing on the alleged involvement of the ISI has started having some takers abroad due to the unprofessional manner in which the sequel to the terrorist strike has been handled by the Govt.of India. It is important to hold Pakistan accountable for using terrorism against India through concrete evidence. At the same time, it is equally important to identify the deficiencies in our counter-terrorism machinery and act quickly to remove them. This is not being done.

11. The Mumbai carnage has caused great concern in the Western countries for two reasons. Firstly, the jihadi terrorists in India, who had in the past showed an increasing preference for explosives over hand-held weapons, have gone back to hand-held weapons for attacking private establishments such as hotels, which have anti-explosive checks, but no armed guards to foil an attack with hand-held weapons. Of the 163 fatalities in Mumbai, only five were reportedly caused by explosives. The remaining 158 were caused by hand-held weapons (assault rifles and hand-grenades). This trend of the jihadi terrorists going back to hand-held weapons was first noticed in the Anbar province of Iraq after 1993(??? typo) when Al Qaeda killed a number of Americans and others with hand-held weapons. It was noticed in Pakistan in 2007. When the jihadis failed to kill Benazir Bhutto with an explosive device at Karachi in October,2007, they used a mix of a hand-held weapon and an explosive to successfuly kill her at Rawalpindi on December 27,2007. This trend was noticed in Afghanistan in 2008. While there was reportedly an one-third increase in the use of explosive devices in Afghanistan, there was a simultaneous increase in the use of hand-held weapons for precision killings. This trend has now spread to the Indian territory outside Jammu & Kashmir.

12. Secondly, many Western experts feel that there was an Al Qaeda hand in the planning and execution of the Mumbai attack and that such precision planning and execution would not have been possible without the involvement of some local Muslims. While Indian experts have been able to quantify reasonably well the threat which they would continue to face in J&K, they have not been able to quantify in a similar manner the threat from sections of the Indian Muslim youth outside J&K because of a fear in political circles that such an exercise for quantification might have an adverse effect on the Muslim votes in the forthcoming parliamentary elections..

13. US Congressional committees and professional counter-terrorism organisations in the West are already examining the details of the Mumbai carnage in order to draw lessons for themselves and to prevent a Mumbai-style attack in their country. Surprisingly, such an exercise is hardly to be seen in India. All the debate till now has been on what are the options against Pakistan. There has hardly been any public debate on what are the options against the terrorists in order to prevent another major attack. :-? ( 12-1-09)

NRao
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby NRao » 12 Jan 2009 08:57

narayanan wrote:IB4TL?


Interesting. Do either BC or BR have anything new?

I would hope not, but, I would not be surprised if we could download these two articles and republish them after the next attack.

I mean even the Pakis must be getting bored to death - attack, Indian nonresponse, attack, Indian non.............

but I did learn something new today: in the UK "Paki" means all South Asians. The caliphate is already in existence. What are the Islamists yelling about? The Prince of UK has stated it. Someone please let the LeT and ISI know. No need to draw up new attacks. We are all Pakis (sleeping in airports).

NRao
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby NRao » 12 Jan 2009 09:00

BTW, the move from remote bombs to handheld devices is because the US and gang have been able to suppress the "remote" component with a good deal of success.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Div » 12 Jan 2009 09:46

8. After the drama was over and the National Security Guards (NSGs) had rescued the surviving hostages, the Western countries had all their surviving nationals quietly flown to Europe where they were thoroughly debriefed by special teams from their intelligence agencies. It is said that the French even sent a special plane for evacuating the French and other Western survivors from Mumbai to Paris. Western experts are surprised that neither the Mumbai Police nor the central intelligence agencies showed interest in detaining the surviving foreign hostages in India in order to debrief them thoroughly. If they had done so, the details collected by them would have formed an important part of the dossier prepared by the Ministry of Home Affairs and disseminated to foreign Governments. It is said that such details,which could have been obtained by debriefing the foreign survivors, hardly figure in the dossier.


This type of incompetence is unbelievable.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 12 Jan 2009 10:02

I dont know how much they would have got out of hysterical foreigners who would anyay compalin of Indian police tactics.

This Monday morning quarterbacking is tantamoun to whining. The retired folks always write dirges of how the current crowd has muffed up one thing or the other but what did they do when they were in service and had better politicial masters?

So lets give it a rest as to what should and could have been done and see what can be done.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sanjaykumar » 12 Jan 2009 10:08

Would these foreigners be expected to be particularly astute that they should be preferred over or even in addition to the hundreds of Indians involved in these events. Do Indian police agencies have that kind of time to waste?

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby SaiK » 12 Jan 2009 10:13

well.. can't they debrief from france or germany or usa? they can present their evidences and protest to their govt. supporting or not supporting their suspicions or any thing that they think we are missing in the dossier that we presented to pakistan.

if they do so, now, it would only help get pakistan fixed rather keep the criminals doing what they keep doing..

is pakistan so important for afghan operations.. why is the world fearing that pakis when become failed state, would cause more terrorism.. imho, the more failed state it becomes, there would be more explicit terror attacks initially, but it would die out since, the world establishes their capabilities pretty soon/and alienate them.

now, it looks like pakistan can nuke any part of the world just by the words- non state acting jihad.. and stinch ally of terrorism with unkill.

this is very silly!.. if the firangs have anything..let them stick it on pakis face.. and not wait till sh!t hits the ceiling fan!

Div
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Div » 12 Jan 2009 10:18

sanjaykumar wrote:Would these foreigners be expected to be particularly astute that they should be preferred over or even in addition to the hundreds of Indians involved in these events. Do Indian police agencies have that kind of time to waste?

No, but they may have been witness to events that were unique to them. Hard to discern that without even trying to find out what they know/saw.

Not sure I would call something like that Monday morning quarterbacking - its a valid question on what seems like a very common sense procedure. Sure the logistics of doing that would have been hard, but that's the job of investigators.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 12 Jan 2009 11:09

Zeenews had a scathing critique of Gilani's besharm taek on the Mumbai terrorist attackers.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Duangkomon » 12 Jan 2009 11:51

Lets say GOI decides to play tit for tat after this coercive diplomacy drama not yielding any results and orders Indian military/R&AW to take out Laskhar leadership as well as the Paki Military leadership including Kiyani and the ISI chief. Is the SF/R&AW prepared operationally to pull this off? Is this something that they would be planning and training for?
I don't expect an answer, just wondering aloud.....

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby RajeshA » 12 Jan 2009 14:46

Almost 50 days after the Mumbai Terror Attacks, we all know there is not going to be any Indian retaliation against the Pakistanis. So it is a frustrating waste of time, day-dreaming on those lines.

So my hopes have come down to some sort of an economic response to Pakistan's call to war against India.

We should take a few pages out of the successful Cold War waged on the Soviet Union - wear down the opponent economically and also create multiple centers of credible power within the opponent's state structure.

Time to just push Pakistan over the economical cliff, somewhere from where it never recovers.

o Create enough opposition to any financial help to Pakistan in US Congress.
o Veto any multilateral aid to Pakistan or at least mold international opinion against it.
o Subsidize and encourage all export industries in competition with Pakistani exports. Don't let Pakistan even earn a dime from its exports.
o Help create an unfriendly investment climate in Pakistan
o Get Pakistan into an arms race with India
o Buy off 10 % Pakistan Army top power echelon and 2% of all lower level officer, useful for denuking.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Duangkomon » 12 Jan 2009 18:24

RajeshA, its not about day dreaming. I was thinking along the lines of whether our military is really capable of holding up their end of the bargain if there is political will to retaliate militarily. I guess my frustration is creeping from the political incoherence of GOI to a potential military incompetence when finally the call comes. Whine thread here I come.....
But I agree with your course of action. Pakistan should be kept at the edge of collapse for generations until they change their ways for good and surrender to the will of India.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby NRao » 12 Jan 2009 18:58

Indian political contraption has not just failed but some parts are in cahoots with the very problem. Else D-Company would not exist for some 15-20 years.

Mumbai police with lathis cannot be expected to deal with such attacks.

On debriefing let us see what happens after the next attack. Bet foreigners will be "debriefed" - including order best food from here and there, etc. The point being police forces in major cities in India NEED to be brought up to "international" standards - for the sake of the country. I suspect Mumbai police know "interrogation" but does NOT know "debriefing". Indian police have to keep up with ISI, nothing less.

Also, the handing over of LeT leaders is, IMHO, a bad plot. It will not dismantle the organizational structure IN Pakistan, which is what we need. The US will oppose any eco sanctions from India (in specific). Any action has to be swift - before the rest of the nations can react (cold start).

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Surya » 12 Jan 2009 20:21

Comme on guys

If we had debriefed these "traumatised" survivors the foreign media would have cried "murder".

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Kanson » 12 Jan 2009 20:52

Indian police did debriefed some of them if not all, due to the situtaion at hand. Pls check news items came at that time.

B.Raman was lamenting the notion that if those evidence would have included into the dossier it would shame the Pakistan even more and created even more perfect picture to frame them. Its upto present Gov. what it wants to do.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby kasthuri » 12 Jan 2009 21:41

India ready to break with Pakistan over lack of help with Mumbai inquiry

From Times Online
January 12, 2009
India ready to break with Pakistan over lack of help with Mumbai inquiry
Smoke rises from the Taj Hotel in Mumbai

(Peter Keep/Reuters)

Smoke rises from the Taj Palace Hotel in Mumbai, where Islamist gunmen killed more than 170 people during a three-day rampage
David Byers, in Delhi

India plans to break off business, transport and tourist links with Pakistan and isolate it from the rest of the world if it fails to help to investigate the Mumbai terrorist attacks, the country's Home Minister told The Times today.

Speaking in an interview that will raise the temperature further between the two countries, Palaniappan Chidambaram accused Pakistan of doing nothing to assist India bring to justice the perpetrators of the attacks on the country's financial capital, which killed 165 people between November 26 and 29.

Asked what Pakistan was doing to help with the investigation, in which India handed over a dossier of evidence to its neighbour last week, Mr Chidambaram said: "Zero. What have they provided? Nothing."

The minister — who will brief David Miliband on the investigation's progress when the British Foreign Secretary arrives in Delhi tomorrow — gave an indication of action that would be taken if Pakistan continued to refuse to investigate the attacks, blamed by India on Islamic militants with links to the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI).

"There are many, many links between India and Pakistan, and if Pakistan does not co-operate and does not help to bring the perpetrators to heel, those ties will become weaker and weaker and one day snap," he said.

"Why would we entertain Pakistani business people? Why would we entertain tourists in India? Why would we send tourists there?" Mr Chidambaram refused to discuss when such measures might be introduced, but said: "We need co-operation soon."

Since the attacks in November, India has become infuriated with Pakistan’s apparent failure to take more aggressive action against the Pakistan-based militant outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), which Indian, American and British officials say was behind the attacks. In the days after the Mumbai attacks, Pakistan captured two of the suspected planners, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Zarar Shah, in a crackdown against the LeT in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, but India says it mhas done little since then.

Pakistan has also denied claims by Manmohan Singh, the Indian Prime Minister, that the ISI was involved. India also says that it has failed to respond to a 100-page dossier, presented to it last week, with transcripts of intercepted calls between the gunmen and their handlers in Pakistan during their attacks. The Pakistani National Security Chief, Mahmoud Ali Durrani, was dismissed last week only hours after confirming that the lone surviving gunman was Pakistani.

Yousaf Raza Gilani, the Pakistani Prime Minister, further infuriated the Indian Government by carrying out interviews saying that the attacks were related to the disputed territory of Kashmir, comparing Pakistanis living there to the Palestinians in Gaza.

“Gilani is living in a world of his own if he brings Kashmir into this,” a senior Indian government source told The Times. “The simple fact is that Pakistan is a failing, but not yet a failed, state. That is what he needs to address.”

During his three-day visit to India, Mr Miliband will meet Mr Chidambaram and Pranab Mukherjee, the External Affairs Minister – about extremism. to discuss terrorism and climate change. He will also speak at theTaj Mahal and Oberoi Hotels inm Mumbai, both of which were among the buildings attacked

Mr Miliband's visit comes after Gordon Brown visited Delhi last month to express his condolences and solidarity after the attacks.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby SaiK » 12 Jan 2009 21:47

a massive earth quake in pakistan will make our babooze to claim that its a natural repsonse to terrorism after mumbai.. thanx, i made it.. ib4tl.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Chellaram » 12 Jan 2009 22:02

kasthuri wrote:"Why would we entertain Pakistani business people? Why would we entertain tourists in India? Why would we send tourists there?" Mr Chidambaram refused to discuss when such measures might be introduced, but said: "We need co-operation soon."

wow. act, or we're going to stop issuing tourist visas.

wtf? worst retaliatory threat ever delivered. :roll:

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby SBajwa » 12 Jan 2009 22:17

India's response to Pakistan is zero, nada, zilch. We are a nation of Gandhi, Nanak and Buddha. We should be ready to offer another cheek as a response to this Jhapad.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby vsudhir » 12 Jan 2009 22:19

SBajwa wrote:India's response to Pakistan is zero, nada, zilch. We are a nation of Gandhi, Nanak and Buddha. We should be ready to offer another cheek as a response to this Jhapad.


Make that bumcheek onlee....

Perhaps things are mopving behind the scenes, hard 2 know or say. But certainly after the next attack we will be in a position to know if anything got done or not. If before then the Indus is breached frm the west then also I'd take quite satisfaction that our boys might, just might, have had a hand up the baki musharraf.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby RajeshA » 12 Jan 2009 23:27

Perhaps one element of some rag-tag Indian response could be a massive development program in J&K.

Now that J&K elections have been held, and the Jammu-wallahs and Kashmiris and Ladakhis have overwhelmingly voted for a new democratic dispensation, the Center could clear a major program to upgrade the hydel-power generation capacity in Jammu and Kashmir, which means a lot more dams should be built on the rivers including the Western ones.

Similarly the river systems ought to be integrated into one integrated rivers network.

When time comes, it becomes easier to turn off the tap.

At least the Kashmiris will get both jobs and Kashmir will get more funds from selling electricity to the rest of India.

Let the Kashmiris fight it out with the Pakistanis.

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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby archan » 12 Jan 2009 23:40

RajeshA wrote:Perhaps one element of some rag-tag Indian response could be a massive development program in J&K.

Now that J&K elections have been held, and the Jammu-wallahs and Kashmiris and Ladakhis have overwhelmingly voted for a new democratic dispensation, the Center could clear a major program to upgrade the hydel-power generation capacity in Jammu and Kashmir, which means a lot more dams should be built on the rivers including the Western ones.

Similarly the river systems ought to be integrated into one integrated rivers network.

When time comes, it becomes easier to turn off the tap.

At least the Kashmiris will get both jobs and Kashmir will get more funds from selling electricity to the rest of India.

Let the Kashmiris fight it out with the Pakistanis.

Many including myself used to think this way too. But think about it, there are a bunch of people crying wolf and you reward them due to the fear. Why would they want the threat to end anytime soon if it is causing so much cash inflow? Secondly, it gives a bad signal to other states. If anything, Bharat needs to learn from its big neighbor up north.


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