Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 16 Jan 2009 11:42

Snoozzz....
I am still sleep since the time Mumbai attack came to an end. I asked to be waken up if MMS govt takes any action.

I guess I can sleep like Kubhakarna and wake up when MMS is booted out in next election but the highly competent white skinned guy by last name Gandhi take over where MMS left and talk of turning a new leave (of surrender).

Chai biskoot galore.

Jai Maata-ji kee.

Yusuf · Post by **Yusuf** » 16 Jan 2009 11:56

shiv wrote:
AdityaM wrote:Link to previous thread:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... &start=680

India goes soft; says 26/11 trial in Pakistan OK, if fair
May I post a different take on this.

The game here is to nail the Pakis into confessing that the criminals are in Pakistan and then bringing them to justice.

"Extradition" has one advantage and one disadvantage.

The advantage is that it is a powerful demand which can later be watered down as part of bargaining

The disadvantage is the risk of torn shirt vs open fly i.e it serves as a point on which to obfuscate and change the subject.

Let me use an analogy as is my wont

Shiv: "Aditya I want you to return my money and I demand that you send it to me with your wife" (This is two demands in one - you are guilty, and repay me wit money + visit from wife)

Aditya: "What money? This is a ridiculous demand. I am not going to send my wife to you"

Shiv is now caught in his own rhetoric. Aditya has changed the subject to the fact that his wife is not going to be sent and the technicalities of that. But Shiv has scored a point in making Aditya admit that there is something to talk about. If Shiv had asked "Send me the money", Aditya could have said "What money?"

So Shiv now scores a rhetorical point and says , "OK, wife not needed. Send the money via bank transfer"

The point here is that Pakistan is refusing to admit that it has anything to do with 26/11. But they are actually caught in a diplomatic pincer.

Everyone is saying that they are responsible and they are denying it. If they admit it now - then they will be asked why the lied in the first place. if they keep denying, they will be called liars.

Pakistan is in a tough situation. Pressure being applied on them is to create some kind of internal split where one group goes against the other and admits that there are people within the establishment who are involved here.

Precisely what i mentioned earlier.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 16 Jan 2009 12:07

I think this thread should be better named as "Indian Submission to Terrorism" . India has never replied to any kind of terrorism whether it is sponsored by china,pakistan or bangladesh.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Jan 2009 12:19

While Shiv and Yusuf have hit the nail on the head, it is a very tricky situation that has developed.

Pakistan is in a tough situation and of that there is no doubt.

However, no govt in Pakistan can dare attempt to effectively strangulate the terrorist organisation since it will go against the popular sentiments as they, from the Moslem point of view, also gives social service to the population. If these organisations are helping the population, especially the poor, who are the majority in Pakistan, would the people of Pakistan care as to what they do outside their country (even if one hypothetically takes it that the Pakistani population is against terrorism)?

It is the similar bind that the Indian govt finds itself wherein inspite of 60 plus years of independence the reservations continue and the reservations are slowly being extended to any and everyone who feels 'deprived'. Its all about votes and remaining in power!

War is no option. In a time of crisis, one should not lose one's cool. It requires a calm mind. Further, one has to prepare for war without any hotheaded knee jerk actions. As the Americans say - Remember the Alamo! Indians should remember - the Liberation of East Pakistan! Slow and steady wins the race!

Since the UN has taken cognisance, let them be tried by the ICJ!

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 16 Jan 2009 12:23

RayC wrote:War is no option. In a time of crisis, one should not lose one's cool. It requires a calm mind. Further, one has to prepare for war without any hotheaded knee jerk actions. As the Americans say - Remember the Alamo! Indians should remember - the Liberation of East Pakistan! Slow and steady wins the race!

Not quite in this case. The Pakistanis are also preparing for war by 2012. The acts of terrorism give them the leverage and the upper hand, since we are always responding from event to event. Always short of breath and always huffing and puffing after an incident has occured.

rahulranjan · Post by **rahulranjan** » 16 Jan 2009 12:30

Since the UN has taken cognisance, let them be tried by the ICJ!

I cannot imagine UN playing any role in this. Do you believe UN exists?

Yusuf · Post by **Yusuf** » 16 Jan 2009 12:32

RayC wrote:While Shiv and Yusuf have hit the nail on the head, it is a very tricky situation that has developed.

Pakistan is in a tough situation and of that there is no doubt.

However, no govt in Pakistan can dare attempt to effectively strangulate the terrorist organisation since it will go against the popular sentiments as they, from the Moslem point of view, also gives social service to the population. If these organisations are helping the population, especially the poor, who are the majority in Pakistan, would the people of Pakistan care as to what they do outside their country (even if one hypothetically takes it that the Pakistani population is against terrorism)?

It is the similar bind that the Indian govt finds itself wherein inspite of 60 plus years of independence the reservations continue and the reservations are slowly being extended to any and everyone who feels 'deprived'. Its all about votes and remaining in power!

War is no option. In a time of crisis, one should not lose one's cool. It requires a calm mind. Further, one has to prepare for war without any hotheaded knee jerk actions. As the Americans say - Remember the Alamo! Indians should remember - the Liberation of East Pakistan! Slow and steady wins the race!

How difficult is it for Pakistan to arrest Hafeez Syeed, Masood Azhar, Dawood etc?
That Masood Azhar is a confirmed terrorist does not need more proof since he was released from Indian jail as a ransom to a hijack. I mean only a criminal is asked for ransom by hijacking a plane.

Hafeez Sayeed is the leader of LeT/ JuD which has been declared a terrorist organization. So just by that he becomes an accused as he is leading a terrorist organization.

Dawood is a confirmed fellon in India. He is not even a Pakistani citizen though he has lots of fake Pakistani passports.

The the guys mentioned above have nothing to do with the so called social service that they provide. Its possible that completely unsuspecting/good hearted people maybe surely providing social service, but that does not absolve the leadership indulging in terrorist activity.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Jan 2009 12:35

Raju wrote:
RayC wrote:War is no option. In a time of crisis, one should not lose one's cool. It requires a calm mind. Further, one has to prepare for war without any hotheaded knee jerk actions. As the Americans say - Remember the Alamo! Indians should remember - the Liberation of East Pakistan! Slow and steady wins the race!
Not quite in this case. The Pakistanis are also preparing for war by 2012. The acts of terrorism give them the leverage and the upper hand, since we are always responding from event to event. Always short of breath and always huffing and puffing after an incident has occured.

What is your source?

Are you in RAW?

Even if so, they are unreliable!

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 16 Jan 2009 12:40

Pakistanis are always preparing for thousand cuts and thousand years of jehad.One does not need to be in the rotten useless RAW for knowing this.It's common sense.Pakistanis have nothing to live for but Jehad-e-Hind to die for.

BTW, does anyone know how many cuts bakis have made already?

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Jan 2009 12:41

rahulranjan wrote:
Since the UN has taken cognisance, let them be tried by the ICJ!
I cannot imagine UN playing any role in this. Do you believe UN exists?

Since the software does not support multiple quotes, I will try to answer in separately.

I found this idea that UN does not exist in the US forums alone, especially after the UN did not categorically sanction the Iraq invasion!

Does it not exist?

If so, is LeT not a banned organisation as per the UN, or for that matter the Dawa whatever?

True, that the Security Council is a struggle in the powerplay of Big 5, but then it does function, even if in fits and start.

As the LeT and Dawa are proscribed organisations, can they not be taken to the ICJ when the faces are the same?

Yusuf · Post by **Yusuf** » 16 Jan 2009 12:42

Raju wrote: Not quite in this case. The Pakistanis are also preparing for war by 2012. The acts of terrorism give them the leverage and the upper hand, since we are always responding from event to event. Always short of breath and always huffing and puffing after an incident has occured.

You must have got good inside sources to give a 2012 deadline. By that time we will be getting a lot more hardware to further enhance our ability to wage war with Pakistan.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 16 Jan 2009 12:45

RayC wrote:
Raju wrote: Not quite in this case. The Pakistanis are also preparing for war by 2012. The acts of terrorism give them the leverage and the upper hand, since we are always responding from event to event. Always short of breath and always huffing and puffing after an incident has occured.
What is your source?

Are you in RAW?

Even if so, they are unreliable!

Here it is:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ISI_ ... 969586.cms

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 20#p600220

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 16 Jan 2009 12:48

Yusuf wrote:
Raju wrote: Not quite in this case. The Pakistanis are also preparing for war by 2012. The acts of terrorism give them the leverage and the upper hand, since we are always responding from event to event. Always short of breath and always huffing and puffing after an incident has occured.
You must have got good inside sources to give a 2012 deadline. By that time we will be getting a lot more hardware to further enhance our ability to wage war with Pakistan.

We don't need more hardware to crush pakis , all we need is a jirga with abdomen guards at the Centre, so that the goras don't squeeze the balls of jirga into submission.All the Central cabinet needs is "Abdomen Guards".

Yusuf · Post by **Yusuf** » 16 Jan 2009 12:54

durgesh wrote: We don't need more hardware to crush pakis , all we need is a jirga with abdomen guards at the Centre, so that the goras don't squeeze the balls of jirga into submission.All the Central cabinet needs is "Abdomen Guards".

Well my response was to the post made by Raj. Im not saying India cant fight today.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Jan 2009 13:17

Yusuf wrote:
RayC wrote:While Shiv and Yusuf have hit the nail on the head, it is a very tricky situation that has developed.

Pakistan is in a tough situation and of that there is no doubt.

However, no govt in Pakistan can dare attempt to effectively strangulate the terrorist organisation since it will go against the popular sentiments as they, from the Moslem point of view, also gives social service to the population. If these organisations are helping the population, especially the poor, who are the majority in Pakistan, would the people of Pakistan care as to what they do outside their country (even if one hypothetically takes it that the Pakistani population is against terrorism)?

It is the similar bind that the Indian govt finds itself wherein inspite of 60 plus years of independence the reservations continue and the reservations are slowly being extended to any and everyone who feels 'deprived'. Its all about votes and remaining in power!

War is no option. In a time of crisis, one should not lose one's cool. It requires a calm mind. Further, one has to prepare for war without any hotheaded knee jerk actions. As the Americans say - Remember the Alamo! Indians should remember - the Liberation of East Pakistan! Slow and steady wins the race!
How difficult is it for Pakistan to arrest Hafeez Syeed, Masood Azhar, Dawood etc?
That Masood Azhar is a confirmed terrorist does not need more proof since he was released from Indian jail as a ransom to a hijack. I mean only a criminal is asked for ransom by hijacking a plane.

Hafeez Sayeed is the leader of LeT/ JuD which has been declared a terrorist organization. So just by that he becomes an accused as he is leading a terrorist organization.

Dawood is a confirmed fellon in India. He is not even a Pakistani citizen though he has lots of fake Pakistani passports.

The the guys mentioned above have nothing to do with the so called social service that they provide. Its possible that completely unsuspecting/good hearted people maybe surely providing social service, but that does not absolve the leadership indulging in terrorist activity.

Technically it is not difficult to arrest the leaders of these terrorist cum social organisations.

But these organisation have built a reputation amongst the Pakistani population that they are better in service than their govt. Their work during the Kashmir earthquake was commendable from the Pakistani population's point of view, since it was better than that of their govt.

Therefore, if indeed the Pak govt is serious about tackling terrorism, would they dare arrest these people? They will lose the election the next time around.

These men are taken as the Head of the organisation, even if they are terrorist masterminds. But then the people of Pakistan has to be convinced that they are awful chaps who are carrying out nefarious activities, but are taking cover to hoodwinking the population with social service.

The problem is votes and if the people of Pakistan thinks that these terrorists are doing the right thing, how can the govt go against the popular opinion?

Further, these organisations are the 'strategic' and 'covert' arm of the Pakistan govt. It would be like killing the golden goose.

It must be remembered that Pakistan does not stand a chance if there is a no hold barred war with India.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Jan 2009 13:27

Raju,

Your links states:

ISI agent was tracking force mobilisation: SSP Meerut
12 Jan 2009, 2113 hrs IST, PTI
Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:
MEERUT: Suspected ISI agent Amir Ahmed arrested from the city on Saturday was assigned by his bosses to keep track of the movement of army from
Cantonment here and he was in regular contact with officers of Pakistan's spy agency, a police officer said on Monday.

After obtaining a fake passport under the name Bhura from Barielly, Amir had informed the Shaharanpur police that the ISI was trying to "buy" him to pass on vital inputs in return for cash in 2007, SSP Raghubir Lal said.

He had told the police that he was asked to give information on Sarsava Air Force Base at Saharanpur on a "trial basis" before recruiting him to the ISI network. The police had no means of knowing that Amir was trying to escape surveillance.

In the wake of a strained relationship between India and Pakistan and the possible deployment of forces along the border, Amir was asked to keep an eye on force mobilisation from here. The police have identified the two phone numbers that he used to make calls from and pass on information. He had called ISI officer Farukh alias Tyyab 41 times, the officer told reporters after quizzing him.

"The two mobile phone numbers are under surveillance," he added. He had crossed the border four times since his coming here in 1999 and the latest visit to home was in 2007, when he remained there for 25 days.

The ISI agent had passed on information like mobilisation of 300 army personnel to border and movement of Agni missiles in the aftermath of Mumbai attack. Ahmed, who was very good in Hindi and English, used to make calls to Karachi, Lahore and the UK, the SSP said.

The ISI had also secured an email ID for him. At the time of the arrest, hand-drawn maps of army units in Dehradun and Meerut, a four-page classified document containing information on anti-tank guided missile and an eight-page document on radio communication brigaded mortar shoot were recovered from him.

The Meerut police had received intelligence inputs that some youths in western Uttar Pradesh had contacts with Pakistan's ISI and had zeroed in on Amir.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ISI_ ... 969586.cms

I don't see 2012 anywhere.

As far as Aaj Tak is concerned, have they said how they have come to the conclusion?
You should see India TV, they are a bomb!

I agree that the govt and our Int agencies are no great shakes, but let us try to believe them to the extent feasible. What are they saying?

Are you aware of the financial crisis Pakistan is facing? Can they surface by 2012 to first feed their people and then talk of war. I wonder.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jan 2009 13:31

RayC wrote:
rahulranjan wrote: I cannot imagine UN playing any role in this. Do you believe UN exists?
Since the software does not support multiple quotes, I will try to answer in separately.

I found this idea that UN does not exist in the US forums alone, especially after the UN did not categorically sanction the Iraq invasion!

Does it not exist?

If so, is LeT not a banned organisation as per the UN, or for that matter the Dawa whatever?

True, that the Security Council is a struggle in the powerplay of Big 5, but then it does function, even if in fits and start.

As the LeT and Dawa are proscribed organisations, can they not be taken to the ICJ when the faces are the same?

One could consider an International Criminal Tribunal for Pakistan-based Terrorism similar on the lines for former Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, etc.

However such a tribunal would have to be complemented by a high powered UN Investigative Authority (UNTMCP, see below) working in Pakistan. I have written about this thing earlier also.

RajeshA wrote:This Govt. can perhaps get the UNSC to pass a Resolution saying ...

1. Pakistan does not have control over the land within its borders (loss of sovereignty).
2. Pakistan has a lot of terrorist infrastructure blossoming in the country.
3. Other countries in the neighborhood are victims of terrorism emanating from Pakistan.
4. A UN Terrorism Monitoring Commission for Pakistan (UNTMCP) is being set up to monitor terrorist activity from within and from outside the country.
5. Other countries are requested to provide the Commission with intelligence on terrorists and terrorist infrastructure.
6. Other countries are requested to support the eradication of terrorism emanating from Pakistan and help the government regain its sovereignty, lost to terrorists.
7. The UNTMCP will have an armed complement.

When I suggested this, the people had much higher expectations of our government, and this sounded defeatist. Those expectations have been watered down since then.

In order to get this done, all this government needs to do is a mini-Parakram and show some defiance of USA. Karzai may be supportive.

It is either this or something so diluted that it is distilled water and some vapor! A whitewash!

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Jan 2009 13:38

RajeshA,

That may have been feasible if India were a power to be reckoned with.

Have you seen Miliband bleating in India and then writing the article in Guardian?

Why an Op Parakrama. Who knows it might be another Op Vijay (EP lib)!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jan 2009 14:08

RayC,

Britain has decided that Pakistan need not turn anybody over to India. USA seems to think that some token extradition would suffice, but considering that Pranab Mukherjee is a Paper Mountain on Wheels, and can easily change positions, US too does not feel obliged.

As you stated, Pakistan cannot afford to look as if it is surrendering to Indian diktat and as such will not be extraditing anybody to India. So what do we have:

a) No War
b) No military action
c) No economic sanctions, not even from India, let alone enforced by the international community.
d) No bringing to justice of all the masterminds sitting in Pakistan
e) Chidambaram promising a freezing of cultural and sports interaction by 2109.

The point is it seems the anger in the political class because of the Mumbai Attacks has already evaporated. The West knows it. So nothing will happen.

My suggestion earlier is perhaps the only way, Pakistan can be forced to throw up its terrorists,

o as it does not lose too much face, which had been the case of extraditing to India,
o does not involve violence, to Congress which is anathema, the party having no balls
o brings a constant spotlight on to Pakistani Terrorism
o goes a little in getting justice for the victims of Mumbai Attacks.

It is either this, or Congress can say goodbye to power for the next two decades, because we know, that once Modi gets power he does not leave it.

rahulranjan · Post by **rahulranjan** » 16 Jan 2009 15:03

For God sake please stop talking about Uncle's and Aunties .......

Unless and until we take any action all these talks of views of US and Britian are futile.

If India takes a position then these nations will have to think twice beofre taking a stand. AVB had called IG Chandi when she had initiated the Liberation war of bangladesh. Can her Aatma now enter MMS and start the fight against terror?

Fighting is the Only option.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Jan 2009 15:15

The UN is so impotent and has been "scorned" by both Hamas and Israel in the Gaza war,relying upon it now would be hoping for a miracle.From Nehru's time,the UN has been found to be acting against Indian interests because of the attitude of western powers and China.Only the Soviets/Russians have supported us in the UNSC.

The only silver lining right now is the overwhelming evidence of the perpetrators of the attacks and the Paki military's links.The GOI should increase the heat on Pak diplomatically calling for arms sanctions,with the caveat that if the International community do nothing,we will act militarily.But all this is logic based on the assumption that the current GOI has the guts to do so.Given Pranab's retreat in haste,keeping his "options open",we will have to wait for the new dispensaton after the elections.The pic of the British For.Sec. David Miliband in an Amethi cowshed,courtesy Rahul Gandhi, shows that with repect to 26/11, not only has he "got the bull by the horns,but also the cow by the udder end"!

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 16 Jan 2009 18:27

Ansari's inbox has Lashkar e-mail about 26/11

In the Lashkar e-mail Ansari was given a minute to minute account of the Mumbai attacks; the operations at the Taj Mahal hotel [Images] were meticulously explained.

The Mumbai police is trying to identify the sender, who goes under the name 'Sonia'.

Sonia as in Sonia Gandhi?

I heard Aundhati and Burkha are upset about the name chosen by their terrorist friends. How come Sonia is the only one who is getting all the credit. We too did our best. ARoy felt she did whatever we could to inflame passions with anti-Indian campaign, motivation speeches for the terrorists to kill more Indians. Burkha madam is upset that all her super human effort to expose every one of NSG's actions which provided the mentors in PakiShi$tyStan to guide the terrorists to kill several Indian forces. She also claimed credit for giving out the details of where TOI editor stayed in Taj so that Pakis could go and kill her. I heard she was saddened that her help was completely ignored when she found only Sonia's name was used by Jihadis.
The Jihadis have agreed to use their name alternatively in the next batch of mails.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 16 Jan 2009 18:32

Remember the Alamo! Indians should remember - the Liberation of East Pakistan!

In the interests of terminological exactitude - I believe "The Alamo" was a major defeat and blow to the Honor and Dignity of the US, and the call "Remember the Alamo!", while a call to heroism, is actually a call to jihad-until-death. All the Americans at the Alamo died long before the Cavalry came blundering in, AFAIK.

RayC, the thing that bothers many, including myself, is that we (meaning Indians, West, East etc) spend more time and effort worrying about the poor Pakistani govt's difficulties, and how if we poke the Pakis the Terrorists Will Take Over Pakistan and That's Bad For India - more time and effort than the Pakis spend worrying about anything like that.

I bet the Top 3 Concerns on Das Berjent Zardari's mind as he gets into his green pajamas with the bunny tail at night are:
1. How to get more F-16s, at a cool 10 percent per plane, that's about $6 million per plane.
2. Whether the cream silk sherwani will look too tight over his increasing paunch at the British High Commission cocktail party on Saturday
3. Whether his cousin will be able to smuggle those 3 bottles of Chateau L'Afite 1826 through Customs, or whether he will have to give one to the Customs officer.

So what I would very much like to see GOI doing, is give Das Berjent a good reason to SOLVE the Pakistan problem himself. What we call here "Get His Attention".

Do you see that happening without what we call "War"?

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 16 Jan 2009 18:55

The "Trip to USA" gets more interesting, and slightly more credible: Tel Aviv and back is doable in that time-frame without killing her due to exhaustion. Funny thing, she mentions nothing about the cold weather, which would be the most significant difference between Mumbai and a western city this time of the year. Tel Aviv is probably just cool, not enough to notice in a short time. (Today: Low 52 F, high 69 F).

the four men met her thrice through December and the first half of January, wanting more details, and then asked her whether she would go abroad with them for a couple of days. “ I had come to trust them, I wanted to help them, so I said ok.” Uddaiya had also given her statement to the Crime Branch which is investigating the terror case and says she had been questioned a couple of times by the Mumbai police. “The foreigners were very nice to me and I just told them that I’ll come provided they deposit me back home safely.” In preparation for her trip she was taken to a “big, air-conditioned hospital,” for medical tests. However, she cannot identify the hospital. She was told that she would be taken on Saturday. As her husband is admitted at St. George hospital and she has two young children at home who need looking after, she summoned her eldest daughter Seema to come and stay over for the next few days. She also packed a small suitcase, which she showed us, with two of her best sarees. However she waited all of Saturday and there was no sign of the foreigners.

On Sunday morning, at around 5 or 6 am, she says she got a phone call asking her to step out of her home without carrying anything “pretending that I was going to the toilet.”

Some distance away, a big van was waiting to pick her up. “I told them I had to meet my husband before we left, so they took me to St George where I told my husband that I’ll be back in a few days and then we went to the airport at Andheri where I was given a skirt, blouse and a scarf to change into. Then we got into a plane, it was white and blue and had a star on the tail. It was not a very big plane, there were some empty seats ahead of where I sat. In all there would been fifteen to twenty people on that plane. I got very nervous when it took off but after that I settled down and went to sleep.”

“When we landed it was night. It was a very big airport, they put me through some security check and then we were out. When we stepped out it was cold, quite cold, but not unbearably so. We quickly got into a car and drove off. The streets were not too crowded, not like Mumbai, and I saw several tall buildings like the World Trade Centre we have here. I was taken to a hotel. What a lovely room it was! And the bed was so soft and springy, but I must tell you that I slept on the floor, for that is what I am used to to. But before that I was fed dinner, it was non-Indian food, and I didn’t care for it.”

The next morning, Uddaiya says, she was taken to a building which was as far from the hotel as “Machchimaar Nagar is from Colaba” There we was taken to a room, where there must have been 30-40 people but at the centre was a big black man who asked question like what time did the terrorists land, what they looked like, what they wore, the colour of their back-packs, the time gap between their disembarkation and the first blast at Colaba, whether I knew that foreigners were being particularly targetted.”

Uddaiya who had several cups of coffee through this long session says there was a camera recording her and by the time she was taken back to the hotel it was almost dusk. “People were very kind to me and I was told that if required they would call me back.” By the time she reached the airport it was again dark. “Unlike the time I left Mumbai, when there was no waiting involved, I was taken to a large room and we had to wait for some hours. The aircraft in which I came back also was different. It was a larger plane, there was a woman in a saree aside from white air hostesses, serving us, and the aircraft was white with a red stripe.”

Home food at last

On the journey back she says the plane also halted somewhere for about half hour to and hour but she says she does not know which place it was. Uddaiya landed in Mumbai at around six p.m. on Tuesday evening and then taken to a hotel, “very fancy,” and where she was given Indian food. “The food took a really long time to come, the men who had accompanied me kept chatting, but when the food did come it was excellent.” It was at the hotel that after 48 hours Uddaiya changed back into her clothes, which she says she had washed in the “hotel in America.”

At around 11 p.m., her escorts called for a taxi, gave her Rs 500, and instructed him to drop her home to Colaba. “I came back, saw the police and press waiting and the mess began.”

Despite persistent questioning, she is unable to provide more details, names of the foreigners who escorted her or even the city she travelled to. She says she had the foreigners’ cards but when we ask her for it, all she can give us are the numerous visiting cards of journalists. When asked about the promised money--her daughter had told this newspaper that Uddaiya had been promised $10,000--she said she had not seen any of it. “But they promised to call me again for further help,” she says.

However her description of the inside of an aircraft, the star (of David?) sign on the tailfin of a blue and white aircraft, and the way her suitcase had been packed point to a greater mystery.

The police have outrightly rejected her story, but this seems to be far from an open and shut case.

“ I had come to trust them (the foreigners who took her abroad), I wanted to help them, so I said ok”

BTW, is this "Mumbai Mirror" the new avatar of "BLITZ"? Do they have the same Quality Back Page?

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 16 Jan 2009 19:13

RayC wrote:Raju,
I don't see 2012 anywhere.

As far as Aaj Tak is concerned, have they said how they have come to the conclusion?

Let me reply to the Aaj Tak part since i was one who reported it in TSP thread. The news report was with regard to the interrogation of the spy arrested in UP. It said he was tasked out to spy on indian army movement and bases as well as develop local cells in UP. He was specifically told to prepare the cells to act as sabotaugers during the planned war in 2012 during his training in karachi.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jan 2009 19:34

rahulranjan wrote:For God sake please stop talking about Uncle's and Aunties .......

Unless and until we take any action all these talks of views of US and Britian are futile.

If India takes a position then these nations will have to think twice beofre taking a stand. AVB had called IG Chandi when she had initiated the Liberation war of bangladesh. Can her Aatma now enter MMS and start the fight against terror?

Fighting is the Only option.

I am sorry, but I have come to the conclusion, that this Government is impotent and barren. So while the barren cannot bear fruit, at least she, the Government, can be good for a phuck.

Get it to do what it can! Don't ask this hen to lay eggs, cuz it can't! It is just good for a single meal, so cut it and have it!

The only fighting you can hope for is on your Playstation! My advice is, let us stop dreaming.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 16 Jan 2009 20:42

narayanan wrote:Wow! When a former Ambassador calls the External Affairs Minister and the PM "idiots" ... (er... who else has been "telling the tales" "full of sound and fury but signifying nothing"?) it is time to get a paper cone of roasted peanuts and a bottle of Nimbu Pani, put feet up on the nearest tree-trunk and sit back to enjoy the entertainment. Hopefully not on an ant-hill.

I was only kidding, but it DOES appear that the dilli billis are on vacation. To put it in the elegant terms of my former Boss' secretary describing the Boss' Boss' secretary:

Even when she is here, she is not ALL here..

here is another follow up for the idio(t)syncrasies:-

India climbs down on extradition demand

New Delhi said if Islamabad could not hand over the terror masterminds to India, it should at least ensure a fair trial for them in Pakistan itself.
“If that is not possible, there should at least be a fair trial of these fugitives in Pakistan.”

and the reason is...

The US had earlier indicated it expected Islamabad to try the terror masterminds as per its own laws in Pakistan itself.

British Foreign Secretary David Miliband too on Wednesday endorsed Islamabad’s stand that the 26/11 conspirators should be tried in Pakistan itself.

now, do you seriously think "India's response anymore to mumbai".. our govd. as already made this a non-india response, so to speak.

may be the citizens must be taken to confidence about such large mea strategy. is that chatterati still having strings to mamose? who is the chief now?

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 16 Jan 2009 21:03

Perfect, expecting olympic level competition from someone failing to qualify for paralympics is too much.
The present dispensation is going to have its 'mission accomplished' and would have performed exceptional if it just does these things:
1) Prevent any further attacks till the elections. - All the fervent requests (beggings) to Bakis and other international players will hopefully yield results.
2) Stop making any strategic decisions. If it is bandied about as only window/one time opportunity kind of thing, then it is not worthy. Lack of will or the foresight cannot be compensated by hurrying to sign onto game changing events, that will surely tie up India in quagmires and restrictions for future. Hence, the best thing for now is; ensure the victims are helped to get back on their feet. Send all the strategic planners on paid vacation till the elections or better reassign them to do social work, times are hard.
3) Threaten to change the timings of samjahuta express and the timings of wagah border tamasha, knowing fully well that one has to request the bakis to accede to this threatening request.
4) Send sympathy and get well cards to the victims with/without 'white dove'.
5) Facilitate conduct of fair and free elections. Scratch that and make it: facilitate conduct of smooth and timely elections. Bonus points; if elections are preponed.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Jan 2009 21:15

RajeshA wrote:RayC,

Britain has decided that Pakistan need not turn anybody over to India. USA seems to think that some token extradition would suffice, but considering that Pranab Mukherjee is a Paper Mountain on Wheels, and can easily change positions, US too does not feel obliged.

As you stated, Pakistan cannot afford to look as if it is surrendering to Indian diktat and as such will not be extraditing anybody to India. So what do we have:

a) No War
b) No military action
c) No economic sanctions, not even from India, let alone enforced by the international community.
d) No bringing to justice of all the masterminds sitting in Pakistan
e) Chidambaram promising a freezing of cultural and sports interaction by 2109.

The point is it seems the anger in the political class because of the Mumbai Attacks has already evaporated. The West knows it. So nothing will happen.

My suggestion earlier is perhaps the only way, Pakistan can be forced to throw up its terrorists,

o as it does not lose too much face, which had been the case of extraditing to India,
o does not involve violence, to Congress which is anathema, the party having no balls
o brings a constant spotlight on to Pakistani Terrorism
o goes a little in getting justice for the victims of Mumbai Attacks.

It is either this, or Congress can say goodbye to power for the next two decades, because we know, that once Modi gets power he does not leave it.

If a country is economically boycotted and more so a country that is currently on economic 'ventilator support' ie WB and IMF, we can safely watch its death throes. I am sure that is so since Nawaz Sharif today was in a very 'conciliatory' mode (as seen on the TV) and the Pakistani Generals are quiet as mouse. None of their belligerence of 10 is to 1. I am sure there is things happening that we are not aware of!

To be sure, one does not know what is up. All I say is wait and watch. I don't think the Govt is all the incompetent. Indeed, if they were as they appeared to be in the past and not now, then we would be floundering. Right now, Pakistan is on the backfoot for starters.

Why is the Army not picking up the decibel of war which all are indicating with statements like - all options are open? Could it be that they are following the submariners credo - Run silent, run deep?

For those who feel that war is the only option, they should understand that war is not a knee jerk option! Sadly, FM Maneckshaw is no more. He would have explained better!

Patriotic Schizophrenia

"War", the Prime Minister
deemed on the worthless file
The map illusioned the insignificance of the mile.
In forward belts of nameless men
Herding into platoons
And the ranks died!

"Advance", the General ordered
from the rear -
and the front rank died;
the lines on the map
red and blue
swayed from side to side!

"Forward" the officer cried
the shell burst upon his voice
blasted flesh and blood -
but the front rank also died!
- who is who?
or what is what?
Bursting red roses
crimson upon the earth -
just a number on the identification disc -
a statistical figure upon the chart!

The man raced forward
and fell.
Croaking frogs in the rain
diluted Mother's blood upon the soaking earth.
fascinating as rivulets in red -
synchronised 'hallaled' life!

More Blood - cried the Patriotic flood
from the rear.
"Mother, wipe away your tear
your son is a hero for the day.
you will forget him soon -
for pray, what is life?"

Tick off your conscience's due.
Taxpayers red is their blood upon the national balance sheet.
They live to Die
And in Death, they Live!

Peace upon the Earth
bought by heroic blood -
till again the population cried -
More Blood -
And so more Fools died!

Memorials in Gratitude Stand
Mossed with age and rain -
Forgotten by all -
except
the bladder full Dog -
A Tribute indeed for our Heroic Dead!!!!!

SKR

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Jan 2009 21:29

The ISI agent had passed on information like mobilisation of 300 army personnel to border and movement of Agni missiles in the aftermath of Mumbai attack.

The Agnis were/are mobilised? I didn't expect our peace-loving,dove sending PM tro sanction such "dastardly" acts against long lost brothers!!!

bharat_r · Post by **bharat_r** » 16 Jan 2009 21:33

It is amazing that while most educated Indians believe that our government's stand on the terror issue reeks of submission, but, our liberal media continues to support government. See this article by Shashi Tharoor in Times of India.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opin ... 958327.cms

There is no doubt that the secularists dominate our media and most Indians do not know both side of the picture due to censorship. To counter liberal Indian media, we have started a website:

http://www.bharatright.com

This website provides links to nationalist articles published in various newspapers. All the items in website appear as hyperlinks and a summary of article is provided just under the article header. We also pick up liberal opinions and compare with nationalist opinion, so readers can compare both the views and reach their decision. The articles are updated on a daily basis. The headline news stories are updated every 30 minutes.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 16 Jan 2009 21:37

RayC, the thing that bothers many, including myself, is that we (meaning Indians, West, East etc) spend more time and effort worrying about the poor Pakistani govt's difficulties, and how if we poke the Pakis the Terrorists Will Take Over Pakistan and That's Bad For India - more time and effort than the Pakis spend worrying about anything like that.

It is not any bother about Pakistan. In fact, who cares?

What bothers is the cost of war and how it pushes back the nation in all respects, except self pride!

To recover, it takes a lot of time.

Right now, we are in a global competition and that too, with our neighbour China. Imagine if a war is undertaken, how many years will be slip behind?

As I look at it, China is no Superman. We can compete. China is having domestic turmoil and also sectarian problems. This will slow them down or they would have to take repressive measures. All these would be excellent for her adversaries and all efforts to this end would be ideal.

Why do you think that China sent a high level chap to talk to Pakistan after the Mumbai carnage? They are equally worried. Xinjiang is no fun for them! They are more worried about the Islamic resurgence than us, since they are repressive towards the Moslems in Xinjiang!

We should be concerned about the overall geostrategic scenario and not be localised, unless pushed to the brink! Right now, Pakistani leaders are bleating including Sharif today on TV. If without war, we can push them into the corner, why go for war?

Further, if one goes by the threads on the BR, the armed forces have many gaps. Let us close those gaps so that we are totally in command!! But then, I will confess that while the BR members give the impression that they know all, I don't!

If democracy in Pakistan takes hold, the power of the Army is reduced. That should be the aim.

I had once put on BR the rationale of the various reasons why Pakistan is up a gum tree with its sub nationalism and how the Mohajirs have used Islam to cut down the 'refugee in our midst' attitude of the others because the Mohajirs were the smart ones who took over Pakistan! Why do you think Musharraf is so belligerent and up front? He is is a Mohajir and so he has to prove that he is more loyal than the King himself!

And so it goes on!

One has to use his brains and not his anger!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Jan 2009 21:39

My view on this?

Forget war in revenge.

What we need is a deliberate war started to take out Pakistani nukes and nuke producing capabillity.

The sooner the better.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 16 Jan 2009 21:41

but, our liberal media continues to support government. See this article by Shashi Tharoor in Times of India.

Need to make the definition of "liberal" clear.

A liberal is one who tolerates "contrary" opinion, and the media you refer to doesn't do that. Its not liberal media, neither is Sashi Tharoor. They have a common agenda, as given by their associations and business interests which needs oiling up to the existing state machinery.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2009 21:42

sum wrote:
The ISI agent had passed on information like mobilisation of 300 army personnel to border and movement of Agni missiles in the aftermath of Mumbai attack.

The Agnis were/are mobilised? I didn't expect our peace-loving,dove sending PM tro sanction such "dastardly" acts against long lost brothers!!!

Can we get a detailed timeline please on this report? When was the cahp arrested? What time frame is he talking about?

Thanks, ramana

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 16 Jan 2009 21:56

deliberate war?

the only thing possible is "choking strategy" that may work.. once obama brings in his large troops to afghanistan, we need to double up our naval wings and army having rotational works on the borders and keep pushing it up! pok must be liberated, as the first choke.. karachi gets a man made tsunami., and islamabad a giant earth quake that destroys all facilities.

we need to double up our defence budget to start with., and match chinese might.

btw, invite obama to have kashmir tour.. and talk about the democratic achievements.. and then show him the kashmiri holocaust as well... certain things have to be done certain way.. and, to hold fort in afghanistan, they need a better security setup.. the amrikhan forces can do the sanitization process, while our forces and up keep the sanity in afghanistan, and further help setup defence and business.

mr. mumble!! did he wish obama good morning today? we need to wake up from this "yes sir!" to "dear sir"!!! mode.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jan 2009 21:57

RayC,

I have not been baying for war in these threads, and I believe most here are for solutions short of war. We all want

o that maximum damage is caused to those who perpetrated these attacks, and even more damage to the infrastructure and the planners.
o with the minimum loss of our lives, our treasure, our honor and our strategic interests.

I am afraid that in the first case, the damage will be marginal to nil; and in the second case, even though we may save our lives and treasure for the time being, in the long run the loss will be accumulative and exponential.

The signs I see, are that some Mulli-in-Bund comes to India, and lectures us on sufficiency of terrorist trials in Pakistan and putting Kashmir on the table. If that is the effect of Indian coercive and aggressive diplomacy in the last 50 odd days, then I shiver.

One could say, that what India is planning, is essentially not in concert with USA and the rest of the West, but rather on our own. Then I do not have any answers to that. Then everything is top secret, and nobody will ever find out about our devilish schemes. Who knows? May be even Pakistan may not notice our fatal stab at them. In which case, I need not care about it any more, than I care or know about what is happening on the other side of the moon!

One could also say, people will know about it but all in due time! Till then Indians will fry in oil and frustration. The past record of this government is however not very promising or comforting.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2009 21:58

Pranab Mukherjee is keeping the pressure. Good job atleast he will be remembered for that.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 16 Jan 2009 22:04

26/11 perpetrators must face Indian justice: Pranab
16 Jan 2009, 1549 hrs IST, IANS

NEW DELHI: A day after India indicated it was ready to accept a "fair trial" of fugitives in Pakistan, External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee Friday said there was no question of "our dilution of demand for extradition" of the suspects wanted for the Mumbai attack and other terrorist activities. ( Watch )

"Perpetrators must face Indian justice," Mukherjee told reporters when asked whether there was a shift in India's demand asking Pakistan to extradite the masterminds of the Mumbai carnage.

"The SAARC convention on terrorism has the same intent. And such provisions are there in international instruments," he said. "There is no question of the dilution of our demand for extradition."

The minister's hardening of stance came a day after his remarks to a TV channel were seen as a shift in New Delhi's stance by the media.

"It would be ideal if they can hand over the fugitives from India to us. If that is not possible, there should at least be a fair trial of these fugitives in Pakistan," Mukherjee told Aaj Tak news channel Thursday. "It should not be a mock trial. It should be transparent and demonstrated."

India and Pakistan have not signed an extradition treaty but New Delhi has maintained that the lack of such a treaty can't be an excuse as there are many international instruments under which criminals can be extradited.

India has asked Pakistan to hand over 40 fugitives wanted in various terrorist activities in India, including the November Mumbai attacks which killed over 170 people.

Pakistan Thursday said it had detained 71 members of banned militant groups, put under surveillance 124 others and shut down five training camps of the Jamaat ud-Dawa, widely believed to be a front of the Lashkar-e-Taiba. But Islamabad insists that New Delhi's 26/11 dossier linking Pakistani nationals to the Mumbai attack was information and not evidence.

This time India will not let Pak get away: Pranab
16 Jan 2009, 1024 hrs IST

NEW DELHI, India: Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee yesterday made it plain that India would not let Pakistan get away without acting against those responsible for the Mumbai attacks, and dismissed as unconvincing and unacceptable Islamabad's response so far.

In an exclusive interview to Times of India, he said that India needs to see concrete action and that a mere window dressing would just not do. "Pakistan's response has to be one which can convince us that Pakistan is ready to tackle this (terrorism) seriously. We don't want a repetition of what happened after the Parliament attack (when Pakistan gave commitments which it did not fulfil)," said the minister who is seen as leading the country's response to the Mumbai attacks.

The Congress stalwart dismissed as unconvincing Pakistan's reported action of shutting down five Jamaat-ud-Dawa camps and detaining 120-odd terrorists belonging to Lashkar-e-Taiba and other groups, and insisted that India needs proof.

He made no bones of his skepticism of the latest claims from Pakistan, pointing out that such "bans" tended to be half-baked. "If an organisation is banned, is it possible to have part of its activities considered undesirable? I read that their charities will not be affected. If an organisation is banned, all practices must be banned," said the veteran minister.

Mukherjee said he would await fuller details on happenings in Pakistan while strongly expressing disapproval of Pakistan's tactic of talking through media. "Sometimes we get these through the media. Pakistan is also not communicating with us either through our mission here or even directly...officially we have had no communication from them (on shutting of JuD camps and detentions)."

He also brushed aside the alibi given by many quarters that Islamabad was unable to act against terrorist groups because of multiple power centres. Maintaining that it was incumbent on the Pakistan government to first uncover the conspiracy and then act against the perpetrators, Mukherjee said, "We will interact with the constitutional government there. It is up to them to sort out anything else...it is their internal matter."

Asking for verifiable action against the 26/11 terrorists, he said India would not accept mock trials by Pakistan. The minister reiterated the demand that Indian nationals hiding in Pakistan must be handed over. "Indian fugitives have to be handed over to us. There should be no distinction there. We would also expect their associates to be handed over, but we are urging that even if they don't do this, Pakistan should have a serious, and not a sham trial of these suspects," he said.

Mukherjee said that he had been amazed by the manner in which even foolproof evidence presented to Pakistan was dismissed in no time at all. "When we get some material these are handed over at a political level. These are to be examined, scrutinised by competent authority. But as soon as they have received it, they came to the conclusion this has to be information and that is what the Pakistan PM told their legislature. That is why I say they are in denial," he said.

Mumbai investigation is on right track: Chidambaram
Friday 16 January, 2009

Home Minister P. Chidambaram said that the Mumbai investigation is proceeding on the right track and there is no proposal to hand over the investigations to the newly formed National Investigating Agency.

Chidambaram also said that R V Raju will be the first chief of National Investigating Agency.

Briefing media about various decisions of Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs, Home Minister said the cabinet has approved four laning and six laning of various sections of NH-18 and NH-47 in Andhra Pradesh and Kerala.

Home Minister also clarified that new NSG hubs will come up at four places already designated by the central government.

R V Raju, J&K vigilance chief is new NIA head

Radha Vinod Raju, Special Director General of Police in Jammu and Kashmir, was appointed as Director General of the newly established National Investigation Agency (NIA).

A 1975-batch IPS officer, 59-year-old Raju, who heads the vigilance department in the militancy-hit state, will be the head of the NIA till 31st January, 2010, an official spokesperson said.

He was selected for the coveted post considering his wide knowledge and experiences in investigating high-profile cases, including assassination of former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi.

Union Home Minister P Chidambaram recommended Raju's name which was signed by Appointments Committee of Cabinet headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has issued orders relieving Raju so as to enable his deputation to the Centre. He was to retire on 31st July, this year.

Raju, who has served in various capacities in CBI and returned to his parent cadre after being promoted as Additional Director in the investigating agency, also had a stint in the vigilance department.

Serving as head of the Vigilance Bureau in Jammu and Kashmir earlier, Raju streamlined the department which was in shackles due to the ongoing militancy.

The government had also sought views on it from various investigating and intelligence agencies, including the CBI, Intelligence Bureau and newly constituted National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO).

'Delinking ISI from terror groups is a work in progress': US
Friday 16 January, 2009

Suggesting that the ISI and terror groups had links, the US has said Pakistan government was delinking the powerful intelligence agency from the terror outfits and wanted this to be done "completely and effectively."

"We will have to make sure that is done completely and effectively. At this point it is a work in progress," said US Assistant Secretary of State Richard Boucher when asked if the Pakistani government has done enough to delink the ISI from Taliban and Kashmir groups.

"They(Pakistan) are off to a promising start. They have taken many good steps and I think we should recognise that. But we should also recognise, as they do, that there is lot more they have to do to finish with the threat," Boucher told the Outlook weekly on his return to the US after a whistle-stop tour to India and Pakistan last week in a bid to defuse simmering tensions.

Boucher was asked if the US was satisfied with what has been done so far.

The US' third ranking diplomat said cooperation in the region was the best way to see that the groups that helped organise the Mumbai attacks from Pakistan were eliminated.

"We want to see the source of this terror eliminated. We want to see the groups that helped organise this(Mumbai attack) from Pakistani soil eliminated," Boucher said, adding that the most effective way, in our mind, to see that happen is to work with the Pakistanis, get the Pakistanis to take forceful action.

" That's what we are trying to do. The issue for all of us is how do we stop this (Mumbai) from happening again. Frankly, cooperation in the region is the best way to do it."

Boucher said the most effective way, in US' mind, is to work with Pakistan to eliminate the terror groups from their soil.

"That's what we are trying to do. We have seen some action on their part and we hope to see more, " he said.

On the question of Mumbai masterminds being handed over to New Delhi or Washington, Boucher was evasive saying "first and foremost, we expect to deal with those kinds of legal questions in the appropriate legal framework and legal process".

First, we need to know who did it, how it happened and how we can stop them from doing it again.

As the investigations proc eed in Pakistan and India, and the US works with the various parties, "the legal authorities will decide how to bring these people to justice."

The US said was it was proceeding down the road on investigations in both places and expect to help both India and Pakistan to benefit from what is going on in the other country.

Asked to comment on Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani's remarks that he doesn't believe evidence in the Mumbai dossier is credible and whether the US shared this view, Boucher's response was " One shouldn't draw too many distinctions about this information."

"It's useful information. It's part of the investigative process. Each side needs to take it, needs to explore it, needs to build on it and there needs to be a flow of information back and forth for the investigation to be successful. That's what we are trying to promote. That's the process we are trying to set up to maximize the benefits of the investigation".

To a question on calls in India about rolling back ties with Pakistan, Boucher said it is in both sides' interest to continue their relations.

"Our view is that there has been tremendous progress in many (aspects) of the (Indian) government's relationships with Pakistan. It is in both sides' interests to continue that. Obviously, you cannot neglect the issue of terrorism, but if we can establish cooperation against terrorism, we can add to the building of ties rather than have to subtract from it," Boucher said.

He also said India has to decide what its outlook is on ties with Pakistan.

Asked what was his sense of the maximum Pakistan is willing to give, and the minimum India is willing to settle for, Boucher said he saw this as a shared interest in eliminating terrorists.

"It's not a matter of negotiations. We are not in some kind of bazaar here. We all have to eliminate this threat. India has a right to be safe and Pakistan has a right to be safe. The only way we are all going to be safe is if we eliminate the terrorists".

Asked whether the incoming Obama Administration will appoint a special envoy on South Asia, Boucher said there could be someone who will focus particularly on Pakistan and Afghanistan because of the related nature of some of their problems.

"But whether they do that with a special envoy or as just a focus of the administration is a decision they will make in the coming weeks," he added.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 16 Jan 2009 22:05

Bhattt happened ? No more news of Injun surrender!!

Another psy-op to tell Injuns that Bakistanis are pissing in their pants bikaaz Injun Gernail spoke some words in star studded uniform.

Indian Army chief threatened us: Pak media

16 Jan 2009, 2105 hrs IST, TNN

NEW DELHI: Pakistan's English newspapers are indignant over General Deepak Kapoor's remark that all options are open to India. The comment has been perceived as a renewed threat of war to Pakistan.

The Pakistan Observer has reacted strongly to General Kapoor's remarks. "His statement warrants most serious consideration and appropriate response. General Deepak Kapoor who was clad in star-studded uniform gave a clear threat that 'all options were open to India'. His outburst was very calculated and well rehearsed on the basis of briefing given to him by the Indian government. He gave the impression of being diplomatic while uttering every word yet in our view the thrust of the press conference was on threat to Pakistan. Creating a hype of war is part of Indian strategy of coercion and intimidation," said the report.

The Observer added, "Ahead of schedule delivery of first of three Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) this week by Israel to India with dozens of technicians and electronic war fare advisors is a proof that New Delhi has not closed the option of adventurism."

The News writes, "Just as it seemed things are settling down on the Pakistan-India front, someone or the other on the Indian side acts to hike up the tensions once more. First, it was the Indian foreign minister, Pranab Mukherjee, who said that Islamabad was being evasive in its response to the 26/11 dossier. A day after that it was the Indian army chief, General Deepak Kapoor, who said that Pakistani troops had moved to the border with India and that 'all options were open'."

The News editorial concludes from the remarks that "there is an element of growing frustration in the Indian response. We must hope that soon the apparent confusion in the Indian capital will give way to a more rational and, even more important, consistent approach to the whole issue."

In an opinion piece in the Dawn, Cyril Almeida points to the futility of the Pakistan government's "action" on terror. The author quotes from a New York Times report of PM Gilani's first meeting in Washington with President Bush.

"Gilani wanted to tell Bush that he had sent forces into the tribal areas to clean out a major madrassa where hard-line ideology and intolerance were part of the daily curriculum. The one he decided to target was run by the Haqqani faction of Islamic militants.

"Though Gilani never knew it, Bush was aware of this in advance. The National Security Agency had picked up intercepts indicating that a Pakistani unit warned the leadership of the school about what was coming before carrying out its raid. 'They must have called 1-800-HAQQANI,' said one person who was familiar with the intercepted conversation. According to another, the account of the warning sent to the school was almost comic. 'It was something like, "Hey, we're going to hit your place in a few days, so if anyone important is there, you might want to tell them to scram," Almeida quotes.

"When the 'attack' on the madrassa came, the Pakistani forces grabbed a few guns and hauled away a few teenagers. Sure enough, a few days later Gilani showed up in the Oval Office and conveyed the wonderful news to Bush: the great crackdown on the madrassas had begun. The officials in the room — Bush; his national security adviser, Stephen Hadley; and others - did not want to confront Gilani with the evidence that the school had been warned. Indeed, Gilani may not even have been aware that his gift was a charade: Bush and Hadley may well have known more about the military's actions than the prime minister himself," quotes the author from the NYT.